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whitedragon101
Oct 20, 2010, 05:38 PM
I really hope that "unifying spaces,dashboard,expose,full screen apps" doesn't mean we loose the ability to have multiple desktops.

With spaces I can start working on a topic on one desktop opening multiple safari windows and text documents. Then move to the next desktop and start researching a different topic again using multiple safari windows and text documents. Then I can move back to the desktop I used this morning with a safari windows running youtube and iplayer for some downtime.

Now on the webcast they said they were "unifying spaces,dashboard,expose,full screen apps" into mission control. On the demo it seems the only thing mission control does is stack all like application windows up on a single desktop. Not very handy. I really hope they still have a spaces feature but didn't show it. Web research without multiple desktops is painful.


Please tell me they aren't canning multiple desktops.....



angelwatt
Oct 20, 2010, 05:40 PM
I don't know anything with certainly, but I believe they are leaving them in, but the interaction with them is changing some. I don't use spaces, but do see their value.

spinnerlys
Oct 20, 2010, 05:44 PM
Mission Control is a powerful and handy new feature that provides you with a comprehensive view of what’s running on your Mac. It gives you a bird’s-eye view of everything — including Exposé, Spaces, Dashboard, and full-screen apps— all in one place. With a simple swipe gesture, your desktop zooms out to Mission Control. There you can see your open windows grouped by app, thumbnails of your full-screen apps, Dashboard, and even other Spaces, arranged in a unified view. And you can get to anything you see on Mission Control with just one click. Making you the master of all you survey.
from http://www.apple.com/macosx/lion/

It is still there.

whitedragon101
Oct 20, 2010, 05:58 PM
from http://www.apple.com/macosx/lion/

It is still there.

Phew thanks spinnerlys, panic over.

Its amazing when you spend your whole working day on a mac what a major calamity it could be if Apple simply decided to remove a feature you rely on.

celticpride678
Oct 20, 2010, 07:10 PM
The windows at the top of the screen when you launch mission control are displaying spaces.

Interesting way of integrating it.

whitedragon101
Oct 21, 2010, 09:37 AM
The windows at the top of the screen when you launch mission control are displaying spaces.

Interesting way of integrating it.

I am hoping they have the traditional spaces view too. Otherwise how would you move windows between virtual desktops?

RST
Oct 21, 2010, 10:01 AM
Don't take away Spaces! Exactly my thoughts after seeing that.

I feel like many users may be split between using Expose or Spaces, but probably not both. I prefer spaces over Expose. It's definitely one of my favorite tools on Snow Leopard.

Hopefully it's popular enough to stay in it's current form.

RobeeSVK
Oct 22, 2010, 03:21 AM
I am seriously afraid that Spaces are endangered.

If we look closely at the Mission Control Screenshot, we will see that "Spaces" have now names - Dashboard, Desktop and any maximized application that is currently running.

As I understood the concept (and the way it was demonstrated unfortunately supports this) - new concept of Spaces follows strict rules, Dashboard is one "Space", Desktop is another (and here is my greatest fear that we wouldn't be allowed to have more classic desktops with multiple windows) and every maximized apps creates another space for itself - ergo Dashboard and Desktop are set, and for antoher spaces you should maximize applications.

That would be small disaster for me too. :(

whitedragon101
Oct 22, 2010, 03:27 PM
It seems this is definitely worth investigation. If the plan is to get rid of spaces I feel a petition to apple coming on.

thejadedmonkey
Oct 22, 2010, 03:35 PM
Don't take away Spaces! Exactly my thoughts after seeing that.

I feel like many users may be split between using Expose or Spaces, but probably not both. I prefer spaces over Expose. It's definitely one of my favorite tools on Snow Leopard.

Hopefully it's popular enough to stay in it's current form.

Quite right. I use expose, which is why I didn't couldn't upgrade to Snow Leopard.

nicroma
Oct 22, 2010, 10:51 PM
I am seriously afraid that Spaces are endangered.

If we look closely at the Mission Control Screenshot, we will see that "Spaces" have now names - Dashboard, Desktop and any maximized application that is currently running.

As I understood the concept (and the way it was demonstrated unfortunately supports this) - new concept of Spaces follows strict rules, Dashboard is one "Space", Desktop is another (and here is my greatest fear that we wouldn't be allowed to have more classic desktops with multiple windows) and every maximized apps creates another space for itself - ergo Dashboard and Desktop are set, and for antoher spaces you should maximize applications.

That would be small disaster for me too. :(

I agree with your thoughts on this, but I sure hope they aren't true.

miknees
Oct 22, 2010, 11:17 PM
So i watched the whole presentation live on wednesday, and from what i understand, the traditional spaces (which i like OP really heavily on) is gone. They have gone ahead and "upgraded" it to bring all 4 pieces together (Spaces, Expose, etc.).

Their new feature is the top section in Mission Control, it shows the full screen apps you have open, and it opens a new "space" for each full screen app. So using it for full screen apps only will be great, a 2-finger gesture left or right flips between them. However, for any non-fullscreen apps, they all just pile up on the main screen.

That's where the new "expose" feature comes in, all open windows on the main screen are sorted in the middle section of Mission Control.

It looks like it has the potential to work quite well after the learning curve for those of us who are accustomed to the more traditional versions of the individual apps. Hopefully that curve wont be too sharp =)

whitedragon101
Oct 23, 2010, 06:49 AM
However, for any non-fullscreen apps, they all just pile up on the main screen.

That's where the new "expose" feature comes in, all open windows on the main screen are sorted in the middle section of Mission Control.



The trouble is a pile is not very useful compare these 2 scenarios:

USING SPACES
4 spaces are filled with 8 safari windows and a text document open on each. Each space is themed to whatever was being worked on in that space. You can easily spread the documents out with expose or even (as I do) have the corners of the screen activate spaces to get a birds eye view of the system. Expose even works when viewing all desktops, brilliant :) .
There are still 2 spaces free (I run 6) and switching to them means I can leave the other work-spaces open and have a clean desktop (2 in fact :) ).

USING MISSION CONTROL
48 (4 x 8) safari windows pile up one on top of the other without any ability to group them by work task (same with the 4 documents). They do not even spread out like normal expose but rotate on a kind of 3d carousel. This means flicking through 1 by 1.


This definitely seems like a backward step.
Mission control, ok. Removing multiple desktops NO

mrblack927
Oct 23, 2010, 07:42 AM
The trouble is a pile is not very useful compare these 2 scenarios:

USING SPACES
4 spaces are filled with 8 safari windows and a text document open on each. Each space is themed to whatever was being worked on in that space. You can easily spread the documents out with expose or even (as I do) have the corners of the screen activate spaces to get a birds eye view of the system. Expose even works when viewing all desktops, brilliant :) .
There are still 2 spaces free (I run 6) and switching to them means I can leave the other work-spaces open and have a clean desktop (2 in fact :) ).

USING MISSION CONTROL
48 (4 x 8) safari windows pile up one on top of the other without any ability to group them by work task (same with the 4 documents). They do not even spread out like normal expose but rotate on a kind of 3d carousel. This means flicking through 1 by 1.


This definitely seems like a backward step.
Mission control, ok. Removing multiple desktops NO

Totally agree. I don't see how they can take away features that they just added. When they released 10.5 (the last "real" release), they were touting Spaces as one of the major new features. It would be a bit hypocritical of them to act like it's so useless that they can remove it completely and no one would care.

whitedragon101
Oct 25, 2010, 06:40 AM
Is there any way to find out from Apple if this feature is really gone?

fishmoose
Oct 25, 2010, 07:00 AM
Is there any way to find out from Apple if this feature is really gone?

I know this seem silly but the best bet is probably to email Steve Jobs.

RobeeSVK
Oct 26, 2010, 03:23 PM
Well, I have visited the Sneak Peek website of Lion and noticed this -

It gives you a bird’s-eye view of everything — including Exposé, Spaces, Dashboard, and full-screen apps— all in one place.

So if we analyze syntax closely, Spaces are mentioned separately.

Further reading unveils this:

There you can see your open windows grouped by app, thumbnails of your full-screen apps, Dashboard, and even other Spaces, arranged in a unified view.

Again "even other Spaces" clearly differs full-screen apps (which still create a one Space by making them full-screen) from genuine Spaces as multiple Desktops as we know them.

So the logical conclusion would be:

1. Spaces and Full-screen apps are still two different things, though maybe on their way to merge, but October 2010 sees them separate
2. The Reason why there is actually only one normal desktop called "Desktop" on Mission Control could be simple, Spaces are disabled by default even nowadays

So at least at this point, what is said may be understood that Spaces are still there, and if you turn them on, you will have Desktop 1,2,3 at your disposal apart from full-screen apps

Who knows what will happen till summer. But I would definately prefer to let Spaces be, as I wrote earlier, they are in fact optional from beginning, and very addictive :)

whitedragon101
Oct 26, 2010, 09:22 PM
So if we analyze syntax closely, Spaces are mentioned separately.



I think you may have something there. It definitely gives spaces its own category distinct from full screen apps. A good sign :)

kuwisdelu
Oct 26, 2010, 10:01 PM
I still want to see it.

They showed Expose in Mission Control, I want to see Spaces!!

:)