iTunes user sues Apple

[bartelby]

From the BBC News Site:
"A user of Apple's iTunes music service is suing the firm saying it is unfair he can only use an iPod to play songs.
He says Apple is breaking anti-competition laws in refusing to let other music players work with the site.
Apple, which opened its online store in 2003 after launching the iPod in 2001, uses technology to ensure each song bought only plays on the iPod.
Californian Thomas Slattery filed the suit in the US District Court in San Jose and is seeking damages.
Key
"Apple has turned an open and interactive standard into an artifice that prevents consumers from using the portable hard drive digital music player of their choice," the lawsuit states.
The key to such a lawsuit would be convincing a court that a single brand like iTunes is a market in itself separate from the rest of the online music market, according to Ernest Gellhorn, an anti-trust law professor at George Mason University.
"As a practical matter, the lower courts have been highly sceptical of such claims," Prof Gellhorn said.
Apple has sold more than six million iPods since the gadget was launched and has an 87% share of the market for portable digital music players, market research firm NPD Group has reported.
'Unlawfully bundled'
More than 200 million songs have been sold by the iTunes music store since it was launched.
"Apple has unlawfully bundled, tied, and/or leveraged its monopoly in the market for the sale of legal online digital music recordings to thwart competition in the separate market for portable hard drive digital music players, and vice-versa," the lawsuit said.
Mr Slattery called himself an iTunes customer who "was also forced to purchase an Apple iPod" if he wanted to take his music with him to listen to.
A spokesman for Apple declined to comment.
Apple's online music store uses a different format for songs than Napster, Musicmatch, RealPlayer and others.
The rivals use the MP3 format or Microsoft's WMA format while Apple uses AAC, which it says helps thwart piracy."

[Zaty]

The whole story is a joke in my opinion. No one who has bought a an iPod is forced to buy music from iTMS. In fact, many countries where iPods are being sold don't even have access to iTMS. Secondly, in the Windows world, no one except HP bundles iTunes. Apple's overall market share is too low to be considered a monopoly of some sort.

[edesignuk]

I'm not at all surprised by this, it was bound to happen one day...

[edesignuk]

No one who has bought a an iPod is forced to buy music from iTMS.That's not the issue being raised, the issue is that you cannot play tracks bought from iTMS (the biggest legal download store) on anything but the iPod.Apple's overall market share is too low to be considered a monopoly of some sort.Apples share of the legal download/portable player market far out guns anyone else, so in this section of the market they do have an over whelming majority of the business.

[Applespider]

I hope the court throws this out. The guy wasn't forced to buy music from iTunes (there are other music stores and were when he started buying music). The restrictions on the iTunes Fairplay tracks are clearly stated and Apple haven't changed that in the time period.

The guy can still listen to the tracks he's bought without having to buy anything. He can use iTunes to listen to the tracks or burn CDs to play in another system. It's like someone complaining that the coffee pods he bought only work in one kind of coffee maker or the Canon ink cartridge doesn't work in an HP machine

What's the bets that this guy has some link to Creative or another MP3 system manufacturer?

[AppleMatt]

I hope the court throws this out. The guy wasn't forced to buy music from iTunes (there are other music stores and were when he started buying music). The restrictions on the iTunes Fairplay tracks are clearly stated and Apple haven't changed that in the time period.

Actually they have, remember when Steve increased the computers from 3 to 5 and added something else which I can't remember.

I think he's just an Apple-hater trying to be clever or, worse, "prove a point". Don't worry, I'm sure it will fall flat on his face. Then someone will whisper quietly to him that it's possible to strip the restriction and play them on other players.

AppleInsider

[Zaty]

That's not the issue being raised, the issue is that you cannot play tracks bought from iTMS (the biggest legal download store) on anything but the iPod.Apples share of the legal download/portable player market far out guns anyone else, so in this section of the market they do have an over whelming majority of the business.

What's wrong with being no. 1? As long as Apple doesn't abuse its position to push competitors out of business, I can't see anything illegal. It's your choice where you buy your music.

As for the market share, I was talking about the fact that a vast majority of all computers sold worldwide don't even come with iTunes pre-installed. So, there's no comparing to e.g. Microsoft bundling IE and WMP.

[Blue Velvet]

I think I'll have to sue MacRumors for only sharing rumors about Apple... it's sooo unfair and obviously illegal if not immoral.

There seem to be a lot of suits pursuing suits at the mo... Apple Records sues Apple, Apple sues AppleInsider, now this guy wanting his piece of the action...

[AppleMatt]

And other than Apple, all those player makers are signing up to work inside the Windows PlaysForSure ecosystem.

http://news.com.com/Gates+taking+a+seat+in+your+den/2008-1041_3-5514121.html

It's worth a read. I can't work out whether the errors are Bill Gates or CNET, but it's odd to read in a couple of places.

AppleMatt

[edesignuk]

What's wrong with being no. 1? As long as Apple doesn't abuse its position to push competitors out of business, I can't see anything illegal. It's your choice where you buy your music.

As for the market share, I was talking about the fact that a vast majority of all computers sold worldwide don't even come with iTunes pre-installed. So, there's no comparing to e.g. Microsoft bundling IE and WMP.
I'm not saying anyone's right or wrong. I'm saying what the suit is about, you *seemed* to have missunderstood it previously, that's all.

[mslifkin]

It's just too bad you can't sue someone for being an idiot. All he has to do is burn his purchased tracks onto a CD, and then he can put them on whatever "portable hard drive digital music player" he wants. I hope the judge laughs in his face, if it even gets that far. :mad:

[stormer]

The money being spent on this frivolous lawsuit would be better off being donated to victims of the Tsunami...being forced to buy an iPod is the least of their concerns.

Puts things in perspective doesn't it?

[crap freakboy]

I agree with Mr.Slattery completely!

How many times have I bought 12" vinyls only to find when I try and play them on my DVD player that they won't!! I wouldn't mind but it's a fairly new Panasonic DVD/R HDD, and feel I'm justified in laying the blame solely at Panasonics feet. How dare they force me to use DVD's, the bullies. Come to think of it...I've got some old 8 track tapes that I haven''t tried on it yet...bet you anything they wont. Im calling a lawyer!! See you in court Panasonic!! :mad:

[Benj]

The only way this guy can win is if he can prove that iTunes has a dominant position and is abusing it. I don't know the figures but this joker can go somewhere else to download his music.

Can I sue Sony because PS 2 (the dominant product) games won't play on my Gamecube? Can I hell.

The only reason these cases even start is because lawyers in America (unlike in most other jurisdictions) are allowed to work on nutty no win no fee schemes. The bottom-feeder here will have a deal where he gets 40% of any settlement/damages. His hope is that he can shake some money out of Apple for little or no work. Also pretty good advertising for an ambulance-chaser.

Still, maybe this is karma for Apple (fairly spuriously) suing TS....

[Lord Blackadder]

I was going to post an insightful and interesting comment, but...I think I'll go sue someone instead. :rolleyes:

[jxyama]

i think this guy needs to realize that having a superior product and being dominant based on merit is different from abusing monopoly...

if apple prevented others from making mp3 players or music services by leveraging iPod/iTMS, then that's abuse... but i don't think that's the case...

[snkTab]

Going up against the Apple legal department.... this guy is gonna get owned!

Anyway, Apple hasn't broken any anti-trust laws so the lawsuit is hmmm..... Yes iPod/iTunes has an overwhelming market share, but Apple doesn't engage in anti-competitive behavior. Yes you can only play iTunes music on the iPod but so what? You are allowed to make the player and the medium your own. Buy from iTunes carry it with you in your iPod. Simple concept.

[Benj]

Going up against the Apple legal department.... this guy is gonna get owned!


Like Apple Corp. (not)

[CubaTBird]

its freakin' ignorance is what it is... i mean can't someone tell this dude to burn em to a blank cdrw and reimport them as mp3's???!! i mean most pc's have built in burners these days! eeesh! :mad:

[rueyeet]

How many times have I bought 12" vinyls only to find when I try and play them on my DVD player that they won't!! Not to mention the video games that are only available for one platform! How dare they! :rolleyes:

[Apple Hobo]

Silly wanker. Apple forced him to buy an iPod...ha ha ha ha!

Mr Slattery called himself an iTunes customer who "was also forced to purchase an Apple iPod"

I call Mr. Slattery a "stupid consumer who needs to be castrated so he can't spread his low-IQ seed and contaminate the rest of the world."

[psycho bob]

I think this is a non starter. Microsoft is a monopoly because they force OEM makers to use there software at the expense of others (or at least did :p ). Apple state up front what you need. You buy a mac you use software written for mac or you write your own, you buy an iPod you use the iTunes store or rip from your own CD's. People have the choice to buy an iPod or not. Unless you build your own PC then 99% you have no choice but to use windows and most people probably don't even know there is an alternative. Apple have the write to license their technology just as Microsoft can do as they please with theirs, the difference is M$ have so much control they can afford to give others rights because they control the bigger picture.
Aren't tracks from the M$ store encrypted anyway? Can mac users play them?

[Mechcozmo]

I think I'll have to sue MacRumors for only sharing rumors about Apple... it's sooo unfair and obviously illegal if not immoral.

There seem to be a lot of suits pursuing suits at the mo... Apple Records sues Apple, Apple sues AppleInsider, now this guy wanting his piece of the action...

I'll sue you, Blue Velvet, for suing MacRumors because I was forced into suing them because I only know them and you sued first! :mad:

Jeez, this guy is lame... I mean, on my Windows computer I was forced into using IE and WMP and it was a PITA to get em to go away... (they are now relegated to a dusty corner of my hard drive)

[cyanide]

It's just too bad you can't sue someone for being an idiot. All he has to do is burn his purchased tracks onto a CD, and then he can put them on whatever "portable hard drive digital music player" he wants. I hope the judge laughs in his face, if it even gets that far. :mad:

I agree entirely with this, and was going to post it myself until i read yours. He can play that CD in his car, home stereo, or on a personal CD player for that matter. And if he knows the first thing about audio, dubious, he would know he could capture those songs from the audio input on his mac or pc in any format he wishes and then put them on whatever junk player he wants. Sounds like someone regretted buying their iPod at the cost, can't afford it, and now wants to sue for some extra dough. Greedy, lazy, americanism.

[cyanide]

It's just too bad you can't sue someone for being an idiot. All he has to do is burn his purchased tracks onto a CD, and then he can put them on whatever "portable hard drive digital music player" he wants. I hope the judge laughs in his face, if it even gets that far. :mad:

I agree entirely with this, and was going to post it myself until i read yours. He can play that CD in his car, home stereo, or on a personal CD player for that matter. And if he knows the first thing about audio, dubious, he would know he could capture those songs from the audio input on his mac or pc in any format he wishes and then put them on whatever junk player he wants. Sounds like someone regretted buying their iPod at the cost, can't afford it, and now wants to sue for some extra dough. Greedy, lazy, americanism.

[savar]

Everybody knows that iTunes doesn't make nearly as much money as the iPod. iTMS is just there to sell iPods, so there is no reason for Apple to feel compelled to open up iTMS to everybody. It's basically a service for iPod customers that others can use as well.

This guy will be forgotten before too long.

[Rod Rod]

Still, maybe this is karma for Apple (fairly spuriously) suing TS....

Finally, a correct usage of the word karma (thanks)! There's no such thing as good karma. This is one of those common usage issues where it's affected the dictionary definition as well, but strictly speaking - and since this is a Sanskrit and Hindi word - karma is always a bad thing and it's best to be free of it. :)

[dejo]

Finally, a correct usage of the word karma (thanks)! There's no such thing as good karma. This is one of those common usage issues where it's affected the dictionary definition as well, but strictly speaking - and since this is a Sanskrit and Hindi word - karma is always a bad thing and it's best to be free of it. :)

So, is there a word that means the opposite of karma? Something that's a good thing and is best to be full of? Just wondering.

[Xtremehkr]

Apparently he was forced to buy an iPod. Wait, despite iPod holding the Lions share of the market there are an abundance of competitors? good luck.

If anyone compares this to M$s monopoly on an Operating System I am not going to have much sympathy.

Buy a Minidisc player if you really want to get burned.

[Counterfit]

Something that's a good thing and is best to be full of? Well, it's not ****... ;)

[Chip NoVaMac]

I am surprised that edesignuk did not see this other thread on this topic:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=103596

[chanoc]

This is a great example of why the population should be required to take logic as course in high school or college. :rolleyes:

[chanoc]

Finally, a correct usage of the word karma (thanks)! There's no such thing as good karma. This is one of those common usage issues where it's affected the dictionary definition as well, but strictly speaking - and since this is a Sanskrit and Hindi word - karma is always a bad thing and it's best to be free of it. :)

Can karma even be scientificly proven? If so James Randy has a million dollars. :D

[Rod Rod]

So, is there a word that means the opposite of karma? Something that's a good thing and is best to be full of? Just wondering.
Can karma even be scientificly proven? If so James Randy has a million dollars. :D

The answer to both questions is, I don't know. Now I have to go look up the James Randy reference to get it. :)

[Burdenr2003]

dont hate me but i can sort of see from this blokes point of view it is a bit naff that your not able to use other mp3 players with itunes but i also hope that the case is thrown out of the courts because this bloke is clearly looking for trouble. any way nobodys forcing him to use bloody itunes if he dont like it he shouldent use it the stupid prick.

[OutThere]

I agree with Mr.Slattery completely!

How many times have I bought 12" vinyls only to find when I try and play them on my DVD player that they won't!! I wouldn't mind but it's a fairly new Panasonic DVD/R HDD, and feel I'm justified in laying the blame solely at Panasonics feet. How dare they force me to use DVD's, the bullies. Come to think of it...I've got some old 8 track tapes that I haven''t tried on it yet...bet you anything they wont. Im calling a lawyer!! See you in court Panasonic!! :mad:

That's a perfect analogy, it's exactly like tapes and cds and such - and the people are buying from the iTunes music store at a heavy discount over buying it on real media, so they have no right to complain that they can't play it on any other machine, it's exactly like wanting to play your eight track tapes on a dvd player, because you can play your iTunes on other systems, for example by moving them to CD and reimporting, which is much like a tape to CD or tape to tape transfer. Dumb lawsuits should be banned. People need to stop trying to get a piece of the pie by suing other people. :mad: