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BetaHal
Oct 25, 2010, 03:35 AM
I've been following the news on the new OSX version, 10.7 Lion, and I'm feeling sadly let down by the lack of news on technical advances for this version. As a user of demanding apps, I expected to see some progress on taking full advantage of 8 or more core systems, CUDA support for OSX, and a compromise to support further developement of the professional apps that the Apple platform has been known for: Final Cut, (Avid) ProTools, and other tools of the trade.

Instead, with Lion Apple is launching a massive marketing operation that apparently tries to sell me a bit of eye candy and lots of new apps that I don't need and I won't use for my work.

If you're working professionally with Mac computers, let me ask you this: do you feel (as I do) that Apple will let us power users down with this new OSX release?



Queso
Oct 25, 2010, 03:50 AM
It was only announced a few days ago. Wait until the third-party developers start giving their feedback on builds and you'll get a bit more technical info.

Honestly, the Internet has made everyone so impatient :rolleyes:

Bernard SG
Oct 25, 2010, 03:53 AM
It was just a sneak-peek for God's sake!
In a setting such as the Back To The Mac keynote, the target is the general public having interest for macs. It would be totally boring and out of place to rave about the internal technical aspects of the OS.
Soon enough, developers will be seeded the betas and then we'll know more about the beast.

brijazz
Oct 25, 2010, 06:17 AM
Do you also complain about the lack of character development in movie trailers? :rolleyes:

Wait 'till WWDC, and then you'll have more info...

GoCubsGo
Oct 25, 2010, 06:22 AM
You saw what, 10 minutes of it? Making any assessment like that, or even a very positive assessment, is silly.

Do you also complain about the lack of character development in movie trailers? :rolleyes:

Wait 'till WWDC, and then you'll have more info...

This sums it up nicely. Well done sir. :)

BetaHal
Oct 25, 2010, 11:37 AM
Do you also complain about the lack of character development in movie trailers? :rolleyes:

Wait 'till WWDC, and then you'll have more info...

Nope, but I can tell from a trailer if a movie is going to be good or bad. And Lion, to an old and experienced OSX user like me, smells definitely of rotten tomatoes! :p

mabaker
Oct 25, 2010, 11:43 AM
The groundwork has been lain by Snow Leopard advanced CPU optimization features. These will find further implementation in Lion for sure.

eawmp1
Oct 25, 2010, 11:47 AM
I realize Snow Leopard was an "under the hood" update. However, it seems everyone wants revolution with the upgrades. Lion is a step toward a unified OS/iOS that will be occuring over the next 5 or so years. You will hold in you hand the power of your desktop someday. Adapt or die (and in the meantime, if the upgrade isn't worth it to you, skip it).

DouchGod
Oct 25, 2010, 12:03 PM
I realize Snow Leopard was an "under the hood" update. However, it seems everyone wants revolution with the upgrades. Lion is a step toward a unified OS/iOS that will be occuring over the next 5 or so years. You will hold in you hand the power of your desktop someday. Adapt or die (and in the meantime, if the upgrade isn't worth it to you, skip it).

Agreed, the power of mobile devices at the moment has exceeded the Tech we was using in our computers a few years ago. I remember having a 300mhz cpu with 32mb or ram and 400mb of hdd space now i can carry more than that in my pocket.

So who knows, maybe the OSX and IOS appstore will be the same one day. This will allow me to download software to me pc and also use it on a mobile device.

I know ARM architecture and x86 are programmed differently, but you can always emulate, you got to use that 21 core cpu for something right lol.

Or the appstore could just allow us to run the apps in the cloud...

roland.g
Oct 25, 2010, 12:07 PM
I am sure that there will be quite a bit of technical advancement that simply is still in development or wasn't the type of thing to spotlight at this event. Considering that 10.6 was the first release of OS X to not really implement any new eye candy features, and was marketed as a "under the hood" release, they probably wanted to show off some of the "features" rather than focus on performance related items at this point in time. We are still 9 months out from release.

zorinlynx
Oct 25, 2010, 01:48 PM
I wonder how Lion will affect deployments in academic lab environments. We have several Macs in our labs here and it seems Lion is focusing on consumer features (App Store? Built into the OS? Seriously??) and this feels like the "toyification" of the OS.

I really hope I'm overreacting. I'd hate to see this be the end of the OS X platform as we knew it, and the beginning of Macs REALLY being "toys".

It's ironic because for years before OS X, many geeks made fun of Macs for being "toys" lacking the power and customizability of "real computers". OS X did a lot to shed this image, by using UNIX at the core and finally making the Mac a solid platform. And now it seems Apple is wanting to turn the Mac back into a toy again.

Sigh.

Luis Ortega
Oct 25, 2010, 02:24 PM
I've been following the news on the new OSX version, 10.7 Lion, and I'm feeling sadly let down by the lack of news on technical advances for this version. As a user of demanding apps, I expected to see some progress on taking full advantage of 8 or more core systems, CUDA support for OSX, and a compromise to support further developement of the professional apps that the Apple platform has been known for: Final Cut, (Avid) ProTools, and other tools of the trade.

Instead, with Lion Apple is launching a massive marketing operation that apparently tries to sell me a bit of eye candy and lots of new apps that I don't need and I won't use for my work.

If you're working professionally with Mac computers, let me ask you this: do you feel (as I do) that Apple will let us power users down with this new OSX release?

The fanboys will attack you, but it's clear that apple has become an idevice company.
The days of caring about its serious computer users is history.
FCP has become outdated and they push it further back.
Once they turn OSX into a mickey mouse OS the final reason for using macs instead of pcs will evaporate.

NT1440
Oct 25, 2010, 02:31 PM
Wait, so because its not a massive leap feature wise (that we know of yet) it somehow regresses past old versions of OSX and is now a toy?

My god some people don't even live in reality anymore do they? :rolleyes:

Detektiv-Pinky
Oct 25, 2010, 02:38 PM
I wonder how Lion will affect deployments in academic lab environments. We have several Macs in our labs here and it seems Lion is focusing on consumer features (App Store? Built into the OS? Seriously??) and this feels like the "toyification" of the OS.

I really hope I'm overreacting. I'd hate to see this be the end of the OS X platform as we knew it, and the beginning of Macs REALLY being "toys".

It's ironic because for years before OS X, many geeks made fun of Macs for being "toys" lacking the power and customizability of "real computers". OS X did a lot to shed this image, by using UNIX at the core and finally making the Mac a solid platform. And now it seems Apple is wanting to turn the Mac back into a toy again.

Sigh.

I really wish Microsoft would develop Office for Linux or BSD.
What are my options now: going back to Windows :( or sitting it out on Snow Leopard :mad:

rdowns
Oct 25, 2010, 04:49 PM
Big eye roll.

First, did any of you listen to what Tim Cook said? Macs represent 33% (that's one third) of their revenue. Were their Mac division a separate company, it would be number 110 on the Fortune 500 list.

You were given a glimpse of eye candy features which is appropriate for an event such as that. WWDC will give you the technical stuff you want.

goobot
Oct 25, 2010, 05:03 PM
Did you not hear Steve? Back to the Mac, they were showing features tooken from ios.

Cinder6
Oct 26, 2010, 02:53 AM
Wait, people are seriously upset that it's now easier to find apps for their computers? And that we finally get a way to organize our apps? So if something is easier, it's therefore a toy? No wonder non-computer people look at us like we're crazy.

So long as it's still just as easy to get "non-approved" software as it is now, then I'll be happy.

BetaHal
Oct 26, 2010, 03:00 AM
WWDC will give you the technical stuff you want.

http://www.auc.edu.au/styles/auc/auc-logo2.gif

Name: WWDC 2011
Calendar: Conferences
When: Mon, June 6, 2011 - Fri, June 10, 2011
Description:

Tentative dates for WWDC 2011, not yet confirmed by Apple Inc.


:rolleyes: Hey, rdowns, man! Wouldn't that be a boring, long wait? When I ask for tech info is because it's crucial for my everyday job, and also for those non-technical but professional users who take advantage of the platform. Having easy software is cool, but providing a productive environment is better!

VPrime
Oct 26, 2010, 03:44 AM
:rolleyes: Hey, rdowns, man! Wouldn't that be a boring, long wait? When I ask for tech info is because it's crucial for my everyday job, and also for those non-technical but professional users who take advantage of the platform. Having easy software is cool, but providing a productive environment is better!

10.6 still works... :confused::D

maflynn
Oct 26, 2010, 07:06 AM
I'm underwhelmed by 10.7.

Even in movie trailers they tend to show off the best or biggest stuff to hook you. If apple has more changes to be done in 10.7, they better quickly add it, if they want to make the summer 11 date.

Given that they really didn't mention some big things, possibly means they'll not be in there at all.

I mean take resolution independence, something that we've been clamoring for years for, a file system replacement, something that cannot be introduced without LOTS of advanced warning and testing. Increased security, like folder encryption, etc etc.

when apple previewed OSX in the past they mentioned a lot more things that were updated, so just saying its a preview and an incomplete preview doesn't seem to fly.

I do think we'll see some small stuff added into OSX, but what they showed off is basically a near feature complete OS.

fizzwinkus
Oct 26, 2010, 07:24 AM
resolution independence and a complete new/modern file system are monumental changes, something that spans several releases. you're more likely to see them as options in mac os server, only showing up in mac os with the next release.

if you think about app resume, a complete reworking of window manager, replacing exposť, dashboard and spaces with a unified task manager (this is different from the window manager), this is all pretty big stuff as well. after the spring cleaning that was snow leopard, they are making the first changes to the very core of the mac system and thought process since multi finder.

i think it's more a testament to how easy apple makes this stuff look.

BetaHal
Oct 26, 2010, 12:14 PM
And, apart from my previous rant on productivity, there's another thing I would like to talk about. I've always thought of a computer as a tool that I bought to do something I want.

With all that Apps Store thingy, though, I'm having the strong impression that the computer is becoming a shop that Apple places into my home. Not a tool to do do what I want, but a market to sell me books, music, apps and who knows what else. Something that instead of liberating me from straining tasks, is trying to alienate me.

Don't get me wrong , I could get to like some of the new features. But I've got some doubts about this new iStore, iAds? thing. Is Apple trying to sell me a computer, or just trying to sell me to this market? Are we going tho have a serious OS that we can use creatively, or try to do our best moving slowly across the burden of a grocery shop? :rolleyes:

roadbloc
Oct 26, 2010, 01:37 PM
Blah blah blah... Is Lion a toy... is it going to be ****... will it look like iOS...etc
I don't know, let's just wait and see shall we, before we get all worked up over nothing. For all I know it could be the best thing under the sun. But also, for all I know, it could be the worst OS in history.

It's an OS and it isn't even here yet. Chill. There are better things to be annoyed about.

maflynn
Oct 26, 2010, 01:40 PM
resolution independence and a complete new/modern file system are monumental changes, something that spans several releases. you're more likely to see them as options in mac os server, only showing up in mac os with the next release.
Yes those items are monumental changes but yet how many years/releases have we been talking about this. My point is apple is unlikely to add these large changes into 10.7 if they have not previewed it. I also consider unlikely that other major changes/updates will be in there if they did not show it off.

Yes Jobs said there would be more to 10.7 then what was previewed, but I contend that anything that wasn't previewed is probably slotted in the category as nice, small updates, to make life easier.

MasterHowl
Oct 30, 2010, 04:42 PM
I seriously hope to god Apple come out with something a lot better than this (unnecessary?) "mission control". What's wrong with Expose & Spaces anyway?!

I hope they seriously improve the graphic drivers in Lion as well. Valve and other major game developers are putting time and effort into bringing sweet games to Mac, Apple should start doing the same!

Don't let me down apple! (yn)

Concorde Rules
Nov 4, 2010, 05:50 AM
Nope, but I can tell from a trailer if a movie is going to be good or bad. And Lion, to an old and experienced OSX user like me, smells definitely of rotten tomatoes! :p

Im also an 'old and experienced' OS X user along with my past OS's going back to 7.6.1!

And I think you and a number of other people are completely over-reacting.

I wish people would wait for WWDC before making outlandish claims of OMGDFZ Apple's messed OS X up!!!111.

Waste of time, bandwidth and money tbh.

maflynn
Nov 4, 2010, 06:10 AM
Im also an 'old and experienced' OS X user along with my past OS's going back to 7.6.1!

And I think you and a number of other people are completely over-reacting.
Same here, I've been a mac user since Mac SE/30 days and as I posted, I'm "under-reacting" not over reacting.

Apple really didn't show much off. Perhaps expectations would have been lowered had they done what they normally do. Preview the OS at WWDC, but they didn't They announced a back to mac event basically hyping a mac centric media event. They showed off a couple of features, nothing earth shattering and called it a day. I also don't believe there will be any other major feature in the OS. Jobs would want to show off all of the major stuff to generate excitement so what he showed is what we'll get.



I wish people would wait for WWDC before making outlandish claims of OMGDFZ Apple's messed OS X up!!!111.
Why? Apple is not going to do anything more at WWDC, in fact waiting until June to hand the OS to developers is too short of a time frame for a summer release, i.e., June = summer.

My outlandish claim is that apple has dropped the ball on this, they've been so focused on iToys that they have not dedicate time and energy towards OSX and what they have done is basically the iPadifcation of OSX.

Waste of time, bandwidth and money tbh.
Umm, This forum exists for such a discussion and it actually makes money for MR since people are visiting it. So are you saying we should not come here and discuss things of apple, because it uses time, bandwidth and resources :rolleyes:

Concorde Rules
Nov 4, 2010, 08:35 AM
Same here, I've been a mac user since Mac SE/30 days and as I posted, I'm "under-reacting" not over reacting.

Apple really didn't show much off. Perhaps expectations would have been lowered had they done what they normally do. Preview the OS at WWDC, but they didn't They announced a back to mac event basically hyping a mac centric media event. They showed off a couple of features, nothing earth shattering and called it a day. I also don't believe there will be any other major feature in the OS. Jobs would want to show off all of the major stuff to generate excitement so what he showed is what we'll get.



Why? Apple is not going to do anything more at WWDC, in fact waiting until June to hand the OS to developers is too short of a time frame for a summer release, i.e., June = summer.

My outlandish claim is that apple has dropped the ball on this, they've been so focused on iToys that they have not dedicate time and energy towards OSX and what they have done is basically the iPadifcation of OSX.


Umm, This forum exists for such a discussion and it actually makes money for MR since people are visiting it. So are you saying we should not come here and discuss things of apple, because it uses time, bandwidth and resources :rolleyes:

Upper tier dev's almost certainly have early builds of 10.7 already, they would be under a massive NDA and hence why we don't know anything.

Your claim is Apple have dropped the ball on this when all you have to work on is 20/30 mins of 'Back to the Mac' presentation.
It's far too little information to even tell what 10.7 will finally become.

I watched it, I thought what they had in store was cool and that I'm waiting for them to release more info later next year.

sushi
Nov 4, 2010, 08:51 AM
As some have already said, let's wait until the WWDC to see what's under the hood.

IMHO, it's way to early at this point in time based upon a short presentation by SJ. Besides, at this point in time, Apple's not going to reveal anything that might be countered by Microsoft until much closer to Lion's release date.

netdog
Nov 4, 2010, 08:52 AM
$5 says that the OP stands on line for Lion on Launch Day 2011.

maflynn
Nov 4, 2010, 09:22 AM
Your claim is Apple have dropped the ball on this when all you have to work on is 20/30 mins of 'Back to the Mac' presentation.
It's far too little information to even tell what 10.7 will finally become.I agree there's far too little information, but I believe that is all that 10.7 will have. Time will tell, but my opinion is apple will not have any other major feature in 10.7

sushi
Nov 4, 2010, 09:39 AM
It's far too little information to even tell what 10.7 will finally become.
True. But not surprised.

IMHO, it's too early to spill the beans as it were. Plus, it's always better to implement a feature than to promise and not deliver.

Time will tell, but my opinion is apple will not have any other major feature in 10.7
I would humbly disagree. Although, I'm at a loss to predict what major feature would be introduced. Just a gut feeling that some major feature will be introduced.

reviewspin
Nov 4, 2010, 10:37 PM
I think it's a bit premature to call Mac OS X Lion out of it yet. We barely even know the features yet. However merging iOS and Mac OS X wouldn't nec be a bad thing. Imagine working on a project (Keynote, Pages, whatever) and you forgot it at you home. No problem! If iOS and OS X are put into the cloud, you could easily get the project with your iOS device. This would make MobileMe fee worth it. Pay Apple $99 a year, you get 50 gb online storage and the abilty to pull files from your computer, to the cloud, to your iOS device. Only have 16GB iPhone? Didn't have enough room for all your fav. music and video content? No problem, with OS X Cloud features, you can swap it out on the go whenever you like. The first company to do this will make millions. Microsoft, surely, is working on it. If Apple isn't as well then Apple might be in some trouble. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

pfjellman
Nov 7, 2010, 03:44 PM
i, too, was a littler underwhelmed with lion. as a developer and a "geek" i like stuff under the hood, performance improvements, fun new APIs, and interface enhancements. i've been using macs since the SE/30 with system 6. haven't owned a windows box since.

if you recall, more than once during the presentation, steve himself said something to the effect of, "i wish we had more time because there are tons of new features and enhancements planned, but we only have a short time so i'll show you the stuff we've got farthest along."

steve wouldn't lie to our faces like that. apple is all about under promising over delivering. it's in everything they do. buy an HP laptop that says "up to 4 hours battery" on the box and you'll be lucky to get 2.5-3 hours. buy an apple laptop that says "up to 5 hours of battery life" and you can probably get 7 or 8. this is just one example of dozens i can think of off the top of my head.

10.7 is going to be a nice update -- any changes and improvements are welcome after such a long wait between feature updates. don't get me wrong, snow leopard was an awesome update and i'm so glad they did it, but now it's time for something new.

10.7 is of course already floating out there in the wild - http://www.9to5mac.com/13304/10-7-growing-in-popularity-and-in-the-wild

of course they've already seeded to select developers, and will begin seeding to more and more devs as 2011 approaches. don't think that no one is using and testing 10.7 from now until WWDC (when apple officially "announces" the software to release whenever it does). this is how each release of OS X has happened in the past.

we'll just have to wait and see what's happening. but no, OS X is not becoming a closed system the mimics a toy more than a tool. the app store will be an option, not mandatory, and there will be some other great features in store as well. obfuscating the file system to the "average joe" will probably be a great move. however the root file system will always be accessible by those that need it and know how to do it. besides -- what would you rather have, a computer with a million great new geeky features, or a computer that you can get for your parents and not have them calling every other day to ask how to do something? as a developer and support guy i spend much of my time walking clients through "simple" processes. i would much rather have them use a computer that is easier to use so i can get on with my day and happily still do the geeky things i like to do. lion is moving towards that, and i have no problem with it.

(netdog, i'm with you - $5 says OP stands in line to buy lion)

Lesser Evets
Nov 9, 2010, 05:46 AM
I've been following the news on the new OSX version, 10.7 Lion, and I'm feeling sadly let down by the lack of news on technical advances for this version.

Instead, with Lion Apple is launching a massive marketing operation that apparently tries to sell me a bit of eye candy and lots of new apps that I don't need and I won't use for my work.

If you're working professionally with Mac computers, let me ask you this: do you feel (as I do) that Apple will let us power users down with this new OSX release?

Yes. Having followed the pre-release news and release of every version of OSX, this one is by far the most anemic and seemingly worthless release yet. Usually they will tout a set of new features that are quite amazing. This pre-release had essentially nothing professional or productive about it, as far as I am concerned.

Mac OSX releases have gotten horribly buggy in the past few years. Installing the OS causes so many problems for several months. With Lion I will wait about a year before thinking about buying it. Lion might be the first OSX that I skip completely, as I see it at this point.

So, I am in agreement with your opinion.

kntgsp
Nov 10, 2010, 08:13 PM
I realize Snow Leopard was an "under the hood" update. However, it seems everyone wants revolution with the upgrades. Lion is a step toward a unified OS/iOS that will be occuring over the next 5 or so years. You will hold in you hand the power of your desktop someday. Adapt or die (and in the meantime, if the upgrade isn't worth it to you, skip it).

What is worrying is that could mark an end to all app installations not approved by Apple. The App Store for OSX could just be the foot in the door. We have an entire department at work that would abandon the Mac platform en masse if they pushed any further with this iOS/OSX merger. We have enough people at work dumping iphones left and right for Android simply due to sideloading and the lack of any arbitrary "morals" pushed on them for what they can install. Last thing we need is for them to feel like Apple wants to do that with their desktops.

Also, what was with the supposed rumor that the the only programs that will be able to take advantage of the new "dashboard" (or whatever they're calling it, I forgot) will have to be applications installed through the OSX App Store? I haven't had time to follow up on Lion features, but did that end up being true or false?

RT2020
Nov 12, 2010, 11:28 AM
It's pretty pathetic actually....Apple had years to work on this. Looks like they spent a month dumbing down some features. That's all. Oh, you want me to buy a $2,000 laptop Steve? Not if it's as worthless as an ipad.

To those who say it's a sneak peak: Look at the history of all OSX releases. They always bring out the shock and awe features at this stage. The rest will be tweaks.

The Mac is dead... it's been dyeing for a couple of years now. The future of apple is dumbed-down iToys and fart apps... not powerful tools for creatives, professionals, etc.

Cougarcat
Nov 12, 2010, 09:14 PM
To those who say it's a sneak peak: Look at the history of all OSX releases. They always bring out the shock and awe features at this stage. The rest will be tweaks.



Not true. At the initial Leopard announcement, WWDC '06, they demoed Time Machine which was the only real "wow" feature.

It wasn't until the following summer that they revealed the UI improvements, rewritten finder, the fancy reflective dock and menu bar UI.

Mackilroy
Nov 14, 2010, 01:13 PM
What is worrying is that could mark an end to all app installations not approved by Apple. The App Store for OSX could just be the foot in the door. We have an entire department at work that would abandon the Mac platform en masse if they pushed any further with this iOS/OSX merger. Last thing we need is for them to feel like Apple wants to do that with their desktops.
I've seen some of the framework for the Mac App Store, and it looks less like the iOS App Store and more like Steam. Also, Apple said it was an option, not mandatory. That could change in the future, but there's little point in worrying about it now.

MattInOz
Nov 15, 2010, 05:32 AM
$5 says that the OP stands on line for Lion on Launch Day 2011.

$10 says he has a sleeping bag with him.

drewyboy
Nov 16, 2010, 01:13 PM
I do think we'll see some small stuff added into OSX, but what they showed off is basically a near feature complete OS.

I'm normally not this harsh but that has got to be the most foolish thing I've heard on this forum. What amazes me is your serious. This is what blows me away "what they showed off is basically a near feature complete OS". Take a minute, stop whatever your doing, and thing about that sentence. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying what we saw was basically all that's new in Lion? I may be misinterpreting but please let me know. There will be much more, give them some freak'n time to show it off at a place where ppl actually care to hear the details (WWDC).

mar2194
Nov 16, 2010, 06:11 PM
Not true. At the initial Leopard announcement, WWDC '06, they demoed Time Machine which was the only real "wow" feature.

It wasn't until the following summer that they revealed the UI improvements, rewritten finder, the fancy reflective dock and menu bar UI.

I am a physics student and my student job is in a NASA field office. Surprisingly my advisor uses TimeMachine all of the time to store the data on her computer (I was very surprised because TimeMachine just seems like baby crap, especially when most of the work she does is using proprietary code written by PostDocs in Fortran and C, using a feature like Time Machine that is so un-technical really surprised me).

But on to my real questions/concerns. Will this new implementation of OS X (Lion) allow equal ease of use for things that scientists/other academics use regularly (things like macports, ssh, sftp, telnet, etc) or will all of that be covered up by some baby-crap garbage GUI?

If so, Apple will be taking America into the past, in an interesting way.

admanimal
Nov 17, 2010, 02:32 AM
But on to my real questions/concerns. Will this new implementation of OS X (Lion) allow equal ease of use for things that scientists/other academics use regularly (things like macports, ssh, sftp, telnet, etc) or will all of that be covered up by some baby-crap garbage GUI?

If so, Apple will be taking America into the past, in an interesting way.

There has been absolutely no indication by Apple that they will be taking away any of these features.

kuwisdelu
Nov 17, 2010, 05:51 PM
I am a physics student and my student job is in a NASA field office. Surprisingly my advisor uses TimeMachine all of the time to store the data on her computer (I was very surprised because TimeMachine just seems like baby crap, especially when most of the work she does is using proprietary code written by PostDocs in Fortran and C, using a feature like Time Machine that is so un-technical really surprised me).

Why's that so surprising? Just because Time Machine is easy doesn't mean it's "baby crap." Is syntactic sugar only for lazy programmers? ;)

But on to my real questions/concerns. Will this new implementation of OS X (Lion) allow equal ease of use for things that scientists/other academics use regularly (things like macports, ssh, sftp, telnet, etc) or will all of that be covered up by some baby-crap garbage GUI?

It already is covered up by some "baby-crap garbage GUI," because that's what most people use, and most people will never see anything else. But I don't doubt the functionality will still be there, as it has been from day one. Most people don't even know that Terminal exists, but it's been there all along, and I'm sure it will stay with us.

RT2020
Jan 12, 2011, 05:05 PM
I am a physics student and my student job is in a NASA field office. Surprisingly my advisor uses TimeMachine all of the time to store the data on her computer (I was very surprised because TimeMachine just seems like baby crap, especially when most of the work she does is using proprietary code written by PostDocs in Fortran and C, using a feature like Time Machine that is so un-technical really surprised me).

But on to my real questions/concerns. Will this new implementation of OS X (Lion) allow equal ease of use for things that scientists/other academics use regularly (things like macports, ssh, sftp, telnet, etc) or will all of that be covered up by some baby-crap garbage GUI?

If so, Apple will be taking America into the past, in an interesting way.

I don't think you will loose any of the features that already exist for power users, but you definitely won't get any new features for power users....or really many new features at all...

I think Apple said oh ****! we forgot about OSX development?!?! ... quick, get the two poor souls left on OSX development to shovel some **** ipad features together! BOOM! Introducing 10.7

chrismacguy
Jan 12, 2011, 08:20 PM
I don't think you will loose any of the features that already exist for power users, but you definitely won't get any new features for power users....or really many new features at all...

I think Apple said oh ****! we forgot about OSX development?!?! ... quick, get the two poor souls left on OSX development to shovel some **** ipad features together! BOOM! Introducing 10.7

I think its a lot more likely that Apple said "oh ****, weve only got totally awesome features, but their too big and not locked down for us to release - okay, you 3 in the corner go create some iPad integration we can flog while we work on deep technical improvements and Final Cut Pro 8" - or at least I hope they are, although so long as I have a Terminal and Final Cut Studio works without interference Ill be happy (you can do anything in the Terminal thank-goodness)

marshallbedsaul
Jan 18, 2011, 11:49 PM
judging already I see, sooooo not coool.
we never ever know the full details of a new thing from apple til a week before or during the opening. Just wait it out.

szark
Jan 19, 2011, 12:54 AM
Why? Apple is not going to do anything more at WWDC, in fact waiting until June to hand the OS to developers is too short of a time frame for a summer release, i.e., June = summer.

Actually, "summer" is the time frame between the Summer Solstice and the Fall Equinox. Apple could release Lion on September 22 and it would still be "summer." So developers would have over three whole months to code after WWDC! :)

britboyj
Jan 19, 2011, 06:25 PM
I'd like 10.7 to ship with a native 64-bit version of iLife '11 and the next version of iWork simultaneously.

I'd also REALLY like to see some more support for customizing gestures on the trackpads and magic mice. Also, finally some baked-in Blu-Ray support for those of us who need it would be great!

MattInOz
Jan 19, 2011, 09:10 PM
Actually, "summer" is the time frame between the Summer Solstice and the Fall Equinox. Apple could release Lion on September 22 and it would still be "summer." So developers would have over three whole months to code after WWDC! :)

Most new API's take what 6-24+months for developers to even get going with integrating in their product, depending on their own product roadmap is. I'm sure Apple has realized this and knows if don't intend to break anything, it doesn't really need a big testing window.

Seeing most of the beta-testers for more complex software aren't going to have the new OS till it's released then most of the issues aren't going to be found till it gets into the wild and run against real world use.

So no real need to give the Developers any longer than 3months because any longer isn't going to resolve any more compatibility bugs than automated testing will show up anyway. Nor is it going to produce any new super features that might be built on those API's.

David085
Jan 19, 2011, 10:35 PM
I hope one day apple will support blu-ray with the disc drives too, if no blu-ray support with lion hopefully the next OS.