European Travel

[AnewMac]

Hey, my wife and I are teachers and are wanting to spend some time in the summer in Europe. Dont ask how we can afford it being teachers, b/c I don't know either. We don't want to do the tour groups, kind of want to do our own thing (good or bad idea)? We want to hit England, France, and Italy, maybe 3 to 4 weeks. I am nervous but excited to travel, I am just asking for any tips, ideas of places to travel, what to see (besides the obvious!), and what to watch out for!


I heard it's best to say your Canadian and not American when traveling!

Thanks

[CubaTBird]

Everybody forgets about portugal... ive' been there twice and its quite a nice place, especially around mafra and lisbon... :o

[MacNeXT]

I heard it's best to say your Canadian and not American when traveling!

Don't know enough about England, France or Italy to tell you where you should go but I think you're wrong about this. Why not just be honest and tell you're an American. You should be proud of it, just as a Frenchman, Englishman or Italian is proud of his own country. As long as your just nice, I think Europeans will treat you nice too. Politics or nationality have nothing to do with that, and I think most Europeans share that thought.

Having said that, if there are people who will treat you differently because of your nationality, do you care? Would you still be interested in having a nice conversation with these people? I wouldn't...

[RBMaraman]

I heard it's best to say your Canadian and not American when traveling!


I always laugh when I hear people say that because it's an absolute lie. I spent the fall of 2003 living in England and traveling throughout Europe. When I was in France in November of 2003, the French were some of the nicest people I've ever met. Every person I spoke to had good things to say about Americans. When we told them that we heard the French hate us, they cracked up. They said it was such a lie. In fact, every person we met in every country was great. Don't believe the sterotypes you hear. In actuallity, Europeans really do like Americans. For future reference, don't believe anything you hear about foreigners from Bill O'Reilly.

As for where to go:
England - London, Oxford, Bath, and try to head up to Edingburgh for a day or 2.

France - Paris (duh!).

Italy - Rome, Venice, maybe Florence (I hated it, personally. But, you can get leather stuff very cheap).

[AnewMac]

Ok I heard the "say your canadian" bit from an Eddie Izzard cd. So, basing it on an English comic probably wasn't the best source of information. Next thing you know I'll be asking people from the internet for advice! :D Thanks for the replies so far however!

[OutThere]

There is a lot of really good advice here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=103069), that mostly applies to what you are asking about. You can read some of the suggestions there, and come back with more questions...

For a little variation, I would suggest that you visit Switzerland for a day (or two), you can easily get in and out by train, and touring some of the old cities is very incredible. You can look through a travel guide for some of the most interesting places. If you just want to stay in France, and not venture into Switzerland, or you want something a little Germanic, I would strongly suggest that you visit Strasbourg France. It is an amazing little city, that is officially french, but has a very german flair to it.

I'm open to questions, and I hope you have an awesome time visiting the foreign cultures you will experience. :)

[Applespider]

Every country in Europe has something worth seeing so you're not going to fit it all in (just like we'd never see the entire US in 3 weeks). What kind of things are you particularly interested in? Does anything in this list really turn you on or off - museums, art galleries, historical periods, fine food/drink, sport, natural beauty, architecture? Do you like lots of active sightseeing or do you like to make sure you have lots of chill-out time?

If you can manage 4 weeks (and tweak the budget tho internal Euro flights can be had for really cheap prices these days - airberlin, easyjet, ryanair, germanwings amongst others), I guess I'd suggest trying to fit in Edinburgh, London, Paris, Rome, Berlin, Barcelona. And stay within the cities for the most part - you can probably see the highlights of each of those cities in between 3 and 5 days. Equally though, you could spend a couple of weeks in each of those cities and not see everything!

[virividox]

well i enjoyed touring with a tour group especially since you have such a limited time and want to hit up so many countries. but you could also book private tours in each othe cities u go to but im not sure how that would be price wise

[Blue Velvet]

Trains in Europe are relatively punctual, comfortable, cheap and many of them are very fast.

Eurail (http://www.eurail.com/)

Landscape, architecture and people are experienced at ground level, not by zipping over them at 30,000 ft.

With this (http://www.railpass.com/eurail/cooks.htm) little bible, you can get round very easily and plan ahead.

Another useful link about Eurailing. (http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/rail_menu.htm)

Railway stations are usually in the centre of a city avoiding the trek from airport to city. No messing with checking-in as well.

A little-visited region is the Ardennes & Luxembourg. Great food, beautiful scenery and the highest density of castles per square mile in Europe...

[Applespider]

Trains in Europe are relatively punctual, comfortable, cheap and many of them are very fast.

Very true and means you see more of the countryside too - I guess it depends on how far apart your destinations are.

Just don't count on trains in the UK, at least at peak times, for long journeys. I have been tempted to reconsider now that GNER have wifi access and powerpoints built into their trains now.

[gekko513]

Well, I'm from Europe and for myself I can say that my "stereotype" of Americans traveling is that they can be too loud and pushy especially if they travel in groups. Other than that I have no problems with Americans compared to Canadians or any other nationality. I do have a problem with the Bush administration, but that's another matter.

[Gee]

Trains in Europe are relatively punctual, comfortable, cheap and many of them are very fast.

That's trains in mainland Europe. Trains in the UK not... :mad:

[combatcolin]

Well we all hate Bush, hell the whole world does, but we do like Americans in general.

Just remember in the UK shire is pronouned shur not shi-er and Buckingham palace is Buck-ing-um not Buck-ing-ham.

One last thing, our trains arn't that bad, just expensive.

[thequicksilver]

I'd offer a little off the wall advice - don't do the predictable Western European cities, go a little further central and to the East. Without a doubt, London, Paris (I lived there for three years), Rome, Amsterdam, Berlin etc are worth seeing. But I've never been to a more gorgeous city than Prague in the Czech Republic, and I'm told that Vienna (Austria) Budapest (Hungary), Krakow (Poland) and Kyiv (Ukraine) are similar. It's said that whenever a Hollywood film is made wishing to depict the glories of Victorian England, they film it in Prague.

Sadly, 'Europe' is too big a scale to target for three or four weeks (loads of different countries and languages, though English is of course spoken in the tourist centres), but if there's one city you have to go out of your way to get to, I would recommend Prague above all others. I'm gutted that I lost the camera with all my photos of my trip there on it - all the more excuse to return one day. :)

[Nickygoat]

Just remember in the UK shire is pronouned shur not shi-er and Buckingham palace is Buck-ing-um not Buck-ing-ham.

One last thing, our trains arn't that bad, just expensive.
Have you been in London recently?
Just remember that with the strength of the £/ € to the $ it will be expensive. Try tripadvisor for hotel reviews - whatever you do don't stay at the regent palace. It's anything but if the reports are to be believed :p

[AnewMac]

I know the dollar stinks compared to the pound and euro. I want to do trains, and public transit to avoid any driving of my own. I do want to hit the smaller cities to get a better feel for the trip. My wife and I are both interested in all the museums, art, etc. Thanks for the tips so far. I am trying to map out a vague itenarary. Thanks for the link to Eurail, that helps tremendously

[Blue Velvet]

Not as spartan as you may think, only problem is that you must book well in advance...

YHA (http://www.yha.org.uk/Home/Home_Page/index.html)

[Nickygoat]

Please don't take one the bus tours around London - they're good for seeing the sights but the information is usually horribly wrong. Buy a decent guide book - Time Out is the best of a bad bunch for London - and devour it on the flight. What else are you going to do for 7 hours? Outside of London Canterbury is nice, the Cathedral is wonderful. Bath and York are beautiful cities and Manchester and Leeds are good for night life & a "younger" feel. All are within 4 hours - if the trains are OK ;)

[AnewMac]

.... - if the trains are OK ;)

What is it with England trains? Some of you imply they are expensive? Is that the only thing or are they filthy and crowded also?

[Nickygoat]

What is it with England trains? Some of you imply they are expensive? Is that the only thing or are they filthy and crowded also?
If you want to see a vision of hell, travel on any train, bus or tube in Southern England during rush hour. Dirty, crowded and you pay through the nose for the privilege. Travel against the grain though and it's great. I work with a couple of French girls, and my sister lives in Spain and they all assure me that public transport is FAR better 'over there'. The NY metro is a piece of cake compared to the Tube. This is why I said memorise the map - it's far easier, less stressful and a lot more interesting to walk amongst London's sites than take the Tube. Outside of rush hour life is a lot easier. f you want any more info just ask :)

[Blue Velvet]

What is it with England trains? Some of you imply they are expensive? Is that the only thing or are they filthy and crowded also?

Yes they are relatively expensive but the long distance ones are OK.
They're not filthy. They can be crowded although not all the time, but book ahead... I've done trips down to Devon and destinations north recently with no probs. Pleasant trips...

Where the expense comes in is for commuters, many of whom live miles outside London. Just watch the different types of fares, though. You get substantial discounts if you book ahead and 'cheap-day returns' i.e. one-day return tickets are good value.

As for 'the vision of hell' I don't think it's that bad. I live and work in Zone 1 -- the innermost area of London and only occasionally encounter problems.

Bus & walking are the best way to 'see' London. Tube & black cab, the quickest...

[iGav]

For anywhere outside of London (or any major city) hire a car... trust me on this ;)

[Nickygoat]

Yes they are relatively expensive but the long distance ones are OK.
They're not filthy. They can be crowded although not all the time, but book ahead... I've done trips down to Devon and destinations north recently with no probs. Pleasant trips...

Where the expense comes in is for commuters, many of whom live miles outside London. Just watch the different types of fares, though. You get substantial discounts if you book ahead and 'cheap-day returns' i.e. one-day return tickets are good value.

As for 'the vision of hell' I don't think it's that bad. I live and work in Zone 1 -- the innermost area of London and only occasionally encounter problems.

Bus & walking are the best way to 'see' London. Tube & black cab, the quickest...
Yes you're rightBV - if you're going out of London against rush hour. You're fortunate to live and work in Zone 1. Try getting a train or tube outside of there. I live in Zone 2 (Bethnal Green) and it's a nightmare to get into London from here in rush hour. Liverpool St is even worse. You're also right about the advance tickets. i forgot to mention that :o

[Blue Velvet]

For anywhere outside of London (or any major city) hire a car... trust me on this ;)


Heh-heh. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4121583.stm)

And we know how well UK roads are signposted...

[AnewMac]

Ok so now I am getting a bit scared. So I'll stay off the tube for the most part. I was wondering if I should pick up some learning French and Italian cds before the trip and try to learn some survival language skills. Good Idea? if so what company is a good choice. Apple only lists one company on thier website, anyone have any luck with these?

[AnewMac]

but book ahead... I've done trips down to Devon and destinations north recently with no probs. Pleasant trips...

You get substantial discounts if you book ahead and 'cheap-day returns' i.e. one-day return tickets are good value.

As for 'the vision of hell' I don't think it's that bad. I live and work in Zone 1 -- the innermost area of London and only occasionally encounter problems.

Bus & walking are the best way to 'see' London. Tube & black cab, the quickest...

How long is considered ahead? Are the buses public transit, or privately owned? Thanks for the help

[Nickygoat]

A week, usually. Don't worry BV & I are having a separate discussion about London Transport. The tubes & trains are fine if you travel outside of rush hour. Bit grubby but hey. This is why we both said bus or walking is the best way to see London. The centre is reasonably compact, and walkable if you prioritise. Shopping in Oxford St, Soho & Covent Garden and museums in South Kensington, except the British Museum, which is east of Oxford St. If you want the best tour take the number 11 bus from Liverpool St to Fulham. It covers all the sights for only £1.20 each. For cheap train fares check qjump - sorry too slow to do links :D

[Blue Velvet]

How long is considered ahead? Are the buses public transit, or privately owned? Thanks for the help

If I was travelling in August by train, I'd try to book anywhere between 2-6 weeks in advance... it's a busy time.

Don't worry about the tube: it's not that bad, just really busy during rush hours. It is the quickest way to get around though not the most scenic. As an example, if you were in Westminster by the Houses of Parliament & you wanted to get to the Tower of London within 30 mins, you'd take the tube not the bus.

The Tube & more (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube)

Here's one place to reserve train tickets (http://www.thetrainline.com) although I'm unsure whether they'll post to the US. You can get an idea of possible savings by trying different combinations of timing & routes...

Also try Googling "UK train tickets" see what comes up...

The London buses are all under one umbrella authority so your pass will take you on all of them. When in the centre of town, you must buy a ticket BEFORE boarding the bus, from dispensing machines by the bus stops.

[gekko513]

As for learning a bit of French and Italian. I've heard that sometimes French people will be happier to speak English with you if you first make a fool of yourself trying to speak French or something like that. Don't know how much of a myth that is, though.

[Zenith]

In Paris you'll encounter a lot of English speaking people, but in general they stick to their own language. I went to Paris last year and it's a beautiful city worth seeing. Yesterday I travelled back home after a week with my girlfriend in Prague, and it's a really amazing city! It's not really big, but the most beautiful capital city I've seen in all Europe.

But my main message is; why not visit Norway? :) Spectacular and beautiful nature, fjords, steep mountains, glaciers, snow, auroras, etc.

[Wes]

But my main message is; why not visit Norway? :) Spectacular and beautiful nature, fjords, steep mountains, glaciers, snow, auroras, etc.

Uh... because it sucks?

























Just kidding, I know how much you love it. Maybe it's just a matter of distance for him?

[Zenith]

I know, I know. Distance is the #1 issue here. The country itself is almost 3000 km long, but plane tickets from capital cities in Europe to Oslo are cheap. Anyway, I just wanted to recommend Norway, since it's my favourite country (still, after travelling a LOT).

:)

[Duff-Man]

I know, I know. Distance is the #1 issue here. The country itself is almost 3000 km long, but plane tickets from capital cities in Europe to Oslo are cheap. Anyway, I just wanted to recommend Norway, since it's my favourite country (still, after travelling a LOT).

:)Duff-Man says....Norway is on my list of places to visit, and getting very close to the top...mostly 'cause I like a lot of the music...Annbjørg Lien, Bukkene Bruse, Bel Canto, Vajas...great stuff.....oh yeah!

[AnewMac]

I know, I know. Distance is the #1 issue here. The country itself is almost 3000 km long, but plane tickets from capital cities in Europe to Oslo are cheap. Anyway, I just wanted to recommend Norway, since it's my favourite country (still, after travelling a LOT).

:)

If money were no issue I would spend a year in Europe and hit all the countries. My wife and I are interested in hitting a few of the more popular places. No offense to others, its just a time and money consideration.

[miloblithe]

In Italy:

Cinque Terre
http://homepage.sunrise.ch/homepage/avong/cinque_terre/

Awesome.

Don't go to Rome unless you want to spend a lot of time there. It's not worth it for a day or two. I'd second anyone who would recommend heading as east as possible. Poland is amazing. Prague is beautiful, but it often seems like there's more Americans there than Czechs.

In the other direction, Scotland is great too, but more fun in a car than using trains and busses.

[Blue Velvet]

Duff-Man says....Norway is on my list of places to visit, and getting very close to the top...mostly 'cause I like a lot of the music...Annbjørg Lien, Bukkene Bruse, Bel Canto, Vajas...great stuff.....oh yeah!

...and Royksopp and Kings of Convenience!

Sorry – off-topic – forgive my enthusiasm... :D

[AnewMac]

In Italy:

Cinque Terre
http://homepage.sunrise.ch/homepage/avong/cinque_terre/

Awesome.

Don't go to Rome unless you want to spend a lot of time there. It's not worth it for a day or two. I'd second anyone who would recommend heading as east as possible. Poland is amazing. Prague is beautiful, but it often seems like there's more Americans there than Czechs.

In the other direction, Scotland is great too, but more fun in a car than using trains and busses.

We have to go to Rome! Would 3 to 4 days allow for ample time there? Have you ever been to the Vatican? Is it a complete zoo there? I am very interested in taking in the architecture and the art.

[skunk]

If you're going to Rome, make sure you take in the Pantheon (holder of the record of largest dome from 118AD to 1963! Walls 20ft thick concrete!), the Borghese Gardens and Trastevere district (the "Left Bank" of the Tiber).

[Abstract]

...and Royksopp and Kings of Convenience!

Sorry – off-topic – forgive my enthusiasm... :D

Yep. :)

If you go to Paris, go see Versailles Palace. Spend at least 3 days there. If you go to Rome, spend 4 days there minimum. The other cities in Italy are spectacular as well, but Rome for me was one of the best places to go in Europe. :)

I'd say that in 3 weeks, if you want to see several things thoroughly rather than go through lots of places with little care for detail, the best route would be to start off in London, then go to Paris, go through Germany or Switzerland and possibly to Austria, then Italy (Venice, Florence, Rome, and some of the cities in between Florence and Nice, France).
From there, you can travel along western France and hit Bordeaux, or travel along eastern France and Switzerland and back to Paris. Fly home from Paris.

Don't skim cities in 1-2 days like Contiki does, which means don't take tours. You can do as much in 3 days independently as you would if you were to take a city tour for 6 days.

Or you could try something like www.busabout.com if you're not afraid of 20-25 year olds. ;) Its cheaper than Eurail, I believe, and I believe they're quite good. It's not supposed to be a tour, so no worries. However, you'll have to book your own accomodation in each city if you don't want to stay in hostels. They don't book hostels or anything unless you ask for it, but the idea is that you stay in hostels of some sort. Good if you're young....bad if you're old. :p

[Abstract]

PS: If you see a long queue at the Colisseum in Rome for tickets, just go across the street to the ticket office at the Roman Forum (you can't miss it :p ). On top of selling tickets to the private part of the Roman Forum, they also sell tickets to the Colisseum, and there's NEVER a long queue. ;)

[skunk]

You really should do Florence and Venice as well, but they deserve a week each...

[AnewMac]

Yep. :)

If you go to Paris, go see Versailles Palace. Spend at least 3 days there. If you go to Rome, spend 4 days there minimum. The other cities in Italy are spectacular as well, but Rome for me was one of the best places to go in Europe. :)

I'd say that in 3 weeks, if you want to see several things thoroughly rather than go through lots of places with little care for detail, the best route would be to start off in London, then go to Paris, go through Germany or Switzerland and possibly to Austria, then Italy (Venice, Florence, Rome, and some of the cities in between Florence and Nice, France).
From there, you can travel along western France and hit Bordeaux, or travel along eastern France and Switzerland and back to Paris. Fly home from Paris.

Don't skim cities in 1-2 days like Contiki does, which means don't take tours. You can do as much in 3 days independently as you would if you were to take a city tour for 6 days.

Or you could try something like www.busabout.com if you're not afraid of 20-25 year olds. ;) Its cheaper than Eurail, I believe, and I believe they're quite good. It's not supposed to be a tour, so no worries. However, you'll have to book your own accomodation in each city if you don't want to stay in hostels. They don't book hostels or anything unless you ask for it, but the idea is that you stay in hostels of some sort. Good if you're young....bad if you're old. :p

Wow, thanks for the great recommendation. I think my three week trip may balloon out to a possible month! That would be absolutely awesome if the wallet could take the hit.

[AnewMac]

You really should do Florence and Venice as well, but they deserve a week each...

Does Venice have a Marco Polo museum? My wife wants to do a gondola ride, is it worth it?

[skunk]

My wife wants to do a gondola ride, is it worth it?
Your life won't be worth it if you don't!

[AnewMac]

Your life won't be worth it if you don't!

True, an unhappy wife many miles away from home can make for a very unpleasant trip.

[Applespider]

If you're in Venice, you have to take a gondola trip. But I'm not sure that it's a good enough reason to visit on its own unless you want to go to some of the admittedly wonderful museums there.

It might also depend on the time of year you are there. I seem to recall going one August when there was a particularly bad algae attack in the canals and the stench was dreadful. No gondola trips that time!

[rogerw]

Does Venice have a Marco Polo museum? My wife wants to do a gondola ride, is it worth it?

do yourself a favour and visit venice. forget worries about stinky canals, its fantastic.

A few days is fine, otherwise you'll get galleried out. Gondala yes, you can even hire your own boat to use yourself(i have links somewhwere but in Italian) Hotels expensive normally, Recommend 'ambassador tres rose' just off st Marks sq. Otherwise, stay outside in near towns ie Treviso, Congleniano and good hotels dirt cheap. Trains cheap/punctual.


Also consider Bologna for a few days, not tourist place but good because of this. Home to the oldest university in the world.

Lake Garda is worth a thought.

All these places are reachable from uk by low cost flights.
eg I have flown to all of these places for no more than £44.00 return every year.

[JFreak]

Just don't count on trains in the UK

bingo! i cannot believe how on earth you britons cannot make train schedules. the london underground works like a charm but a regular train... PAIN !!!

[iJon]

I heard it's best to say your Canadian and not American when traveling!

Thanks
I wouldn't go that far. I toured Europe last year and had no problems saying I was American. I traveled Canada and had no problems.

And to top it off, I am in the Milan, Italy Airport right now waiting to go home from my trip to Egypt. I didn't hide the fact that I was from America. I only got one comment, and one Egyptian said we love Americans, just not Bush. Just take some common sense with you wherever you go and you should be fine no matter where you travel.

jon

[Applespider]

There's no trouble with saying that you're an American but I'll give two other pieces of advice.

If someone asks you where you're from, if you're in a bar/line, say more than just the USA. Many of us can tell that from the accent and if we're asking because we're interested in which part.

Secondly, the only way you'll really get a European narked with an American (other than bringing up politics) is to compare everything detrimentally to the US. Commenting on the differences is fine but announcing to the rest of the restaurant/bus etc that the way the locals have been doing this for hundreds of years is wrong won't make you many friends! ;)

[drMinky]

I would advise avoiding London, to be honest. Great place to live (sometimes :rolleyes: ), but when I first came here on holidays it was the lowpoint of my trip. It offers terrible value for money (compared to Europe), if you don't know where to go you are almost certain to get overpriced terrible food served to you by rude waiters, and for the price of a decent hotel anywhere else you get a dodgy room with plastic sheets and lumpy beds. Add to that the fact that it is not a pretty and immediately accessable city like Prague, Barcelona etc, so most of what is left to do is shuffle between 'touristy' (and costly) destinations like Harrods, Buckingham, Tower of London.

If going to the UK - hire a car and drive through Devon to Corwall, or up to the Peak district, stopping to spend a night on the moors or something like that, sticking to the scenic 'A' roads, rather than the freeway 'M' roads. - take 5 days to a week

Don't make the common mistake and try to cram too much in, aim to spend 3-5 days in whichever city you stop in. Try perhaps to concentrate on one or 2 regions that grab you particularly.

Other ideas:
Italy is expensive but I do recommend the South of Italy - Naples, Amalfi Coast, Puglia, Sicily etc - much better food than the north!
Spain is good if you like sun, cured ham, and partying till sunrise and beyond!
Belgium is great, and has great french-style food and arguably the greatest bier and chocolat in the world! - take in Amsterdam while your at it!
Prague, Barcelona, Paris etc
North of France - Brittany etc
Switzerland is great, because you can dip into many countries from there - France, Italy, Germany, Austria etc

..Finally, a golden travel rule - avoid staying near central railway stations in big citys. -Always seedy, always overpriced bad food, always disappointing!

[drMinky]

As for learning a bit of French and Italian. I've heard that sometimes French people will be happier to speak English with you if you first make a fool of yourself trying to speak French or something like that. Don't know how much of a myth that is, though.


personally, i found that they tend to appreciate the fact that you try, at least. They are a proud culture and particularly defensive of their language (particularly english-creep). Often, if I asked for help in the street in English I would be ignored, if I tried in French, they would answer in perfect english ;)

Same goes for Italian and Spanish (Although they don't speak english as widely - particularly the spanish!)

..You only need learn the basics though; hello, goodbye, thankyou, excuse me, how to ask for directions and help, how to order food, ask for the bill etc. Don't even bother trying to learn conversation! :eek:

[russed]

i would say if you are coming to england keep away from london - its over hyped in my opinion. visit the north of england the likes of the north yorkshire moors, york (if you fancy seeing traditional touristy things - hell there are enough here!) the lake district.

it will be a lot less expensive, more pleasurable - you will be able to relax, get some clean air and see some nice scenary oh and you wont feel like you are being rushed all the time

[skunk]

Would you believe he comes from Yorkshire? :D
Skipton, "Gateway to the Dales", is a really beautiful area, though...

[russed]

Would you believe he comes from Yorkshire? :D
Skipton, "Gateway to the Dales", is a really beautiful area, though...

i did try to keep away from plugging skipton! but yes the area in which i live really is a nice place!

[aricher]

Anyone have any suggestions for good moderately priced food in Paris. My wife and I are going there at the end of February for 1 week. We've been there before, 2001 being the last time but our friends have not. Any good restaurant recommendations?

Also, anyone know if it's cheap to fly to Amsterdam from Paris - someone at work said that it may be cheaper than traveling by train.

[rogerw]

Anyone have any suggestions for good moderately priced food in Paris. My wife and I are going there at the end of February for 1 week. We've been there before, 2001 being the last time but our friends have not. Any good restaurant recommendations?

Also, anyone know if it's cheap to fly to Amsterdam from Paris - someone at work said that it may be cheaper than traveling by train.

there are loads of good inexpensive restuarants in paris, but one that sticks in my mind is 'au chien qui fume' (the smoking dog) - 33, rue du Pont Neuf 75001 Paris (Chatelet on the metro) or www.au-chien-qui-fume.com

but there's loads more everywhere over there. just wander around BTW where roughly are you staying?

[aricher]

there are loads of good inexpensive restuarants in paris, but one that sticks in my mind is 'au chien qui fume' (the smoking dog) - 33, rue du Pont Neuf 75001 Paris (Chatelet on the metro) or www.au-chien-qui-fume.com

but there's loads more everywhere over there. just wander around BTW where roughly are you staying?

Thanks for the smoking dog tip - I really appreciate it. The reason I'm asking for tips is because our friends that we're traveling with haven't been there before and we want to show them an unsurpassed time. We'll be staying in a hotle in the Latin Quarter on Rue Censier. Same place we stayed in a few years ago - decent sized room with bathroom, tv, internet hookup and small balcony for $75.00 USD/night. Can't recall the name right now though.

[rogerw]

Thanks for the smoking dog tip - I really appreciate it. The reason I'm asking for tips is because our friends that we're traveling with haven't been there before and we want to show them an unsurpassed time. We'll be staying in a hotle in the Latin Quarter on Rue Censier. Same place we stayed in a few years ago - decent sized room with bathroom, tv, internet hookup and small balcony for $75.00 USD/night. Can't recall the name right now though.

latin1/4 - fantastic.....Paris is great..Also try the Place des Vosges near Bastille. a square with lots of small galleries and restaurants. my fav city.

[AnewMac]

Thanks for the smoking dog tip - I really appreciate it. The reason I'm asking for tips is because our friends that we're traveling with haven't been there before and we want to show them an unsurpassed time. We'll be staying in a hotle in the Latin Quarter on Rue Censier. Same place we stayed in a few years ago - decent sized room with bathroom, tv, internet hookup and small balcony for $75.00 USD/night. Can't recall the name right now though.

When you remember the name let me know! I cant seem to find a decent room for less than a hundred a night. Any good sites or books out there that may aid my frivolous searching?

I have discovered Rick Steve's book. It is chalk full of information. Thanks to all for the tips. I am still open to more suggestions, restaurants, hotels let me know if you know on any good places you have stayed.

[Abstract]

If you get a travel book, don't get "Let's Go" or "Lonely Planet". "Frommers" isn't so hot, either. I know (and I realize) that they're quite popular, and people have used them before and never had a problem, but there are better guides out there.

There's a travel book published by Michelin (yes, the "tire company"). Actually, there are a few lines. The most popular line is "The Green Guide", but the best they offer has a "dull-red" cover and is called "NEOS". All Michelin books have their name on the front, so you can't miss it. Nobody can guarantee that ALL their books are good, but they're generally as good or better than what's out there. Anyway, descriptions and great pictures to give you a better idea of what you'll see if you go.

[Blue Velvet]

... which may be of interest.

Treviso (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/travel/story/0,,521891,00.html)

[Applespider]

Sounds fabulous - will definitely have to consider next time in in northern Italy.

[rogerw]

... which may be of interest.

Treviso (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/travel/story/0,,521891,00.html)

been there, costs eff all to fly there (ryanair)normally and hotels are cheapo but v good and near venice with good train link and really handy for skiing ie. Dolomites (cortina et al)