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View Full Version : Apple is too much style and no substance


MacBytes
Jan 12, 2005, 12:50 PM
Category: Opinion/Interviews
Link: Apple is too much style and no substance (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20050112135059)
Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by Mudbug

zulgand04
Jan 12, 2005, 01:06 PM
Its amazing how, nothing is ever enough. A cheap mac finally arrives after years of saying how expesive they are now we have one and people are still complaining. Also compareing a Apple to a gateway, theres a reason why theres a diffrence, 1 Apples are made better then the crap they call gateway, and 2 who has been selling bad for years gateway. Yeah it may be cheaper but other then my college no one wants a gateway. My highscool used to have them, dumped them after a year due to continuous hardware failar. hmm thats saying something. Give apple a break and stop with nothing is ever enough, while the system that runs that gateway is bug ridden but oh i forgot its microsoft, they do no wrong! ;)


just felt like rambeling

-Neal

Mav451
Jan 12, 2005, 01:26 PM
Its pretty much a dead give-away when someone says that. He clearly hasn't used a Mac recently. I'm saying this as a PC user. If you haven't used one, you can't possibly comprehend how or why the style/experience aspect is so important.

jvaska
Jan 12, 2005, 01:37 PM
Stupid article - plain and simple. But that's how he likes it.

24C
Jan 12, 2005, 01:42 PM
I didn't want to comment on this article, but this guy is on another planet. He criticises Apple products for bring pretty, compares price levels to a gateway machine...he clearly sees no reason to look at the finished article or it's presentation, because it's not important too him.

He's so obsessed with putting words into print, he hasn't seen the bigger picture. IMO iLife 05 is so much easier for people to grasp and comprehend. Pages is very clever in simplifying the process of creating documents, and although I wouldn't necessarily use an Apple theme, I could see a lot of the target audience doing so.

x86isslow
Jan 12, 2005, 01:43 PM
he seems to be of the camp "the computer you buy determines a) who you are and b) what your relatives and friends think about you"

i can say that having switched from pc to mac, i don't think i've become a different person, and while my pc nerd friend always tries to make fun of me for using a mac, i don't see people getting worked up about whether i put music in a slideshow or not.

i think either he's stupid or he's trolling to get people to come to CNET and look at Dell ads. :rolleyes:

CMYanko
Jan 12, 2005, 02:19 PM
Obviously incapable of recognizing style AND substance since he has never had 'substance' on his PC.

Mord
Jan 12, 2005, 02:44 PM
i kind of feel sorry for this guy, imagine how full his inbox is with angry mac user's emails.

he has not used a mac plain and simple, the mac mini is the cheapest unix workstation available, for a system like that running BSD, with such a sweet gui, you cannot go wrong, plus the gateway is cheaper argument is plain worng go to gateway and spec out an equal pc with a ati/nvidea gpu and equal software and you get to $800

the keyboard and mouse is no biggy, i have two sets of spare keyboards and mice as i'm sure many others do.
the whole point of the mac is you get style and substance and before this the only gripe is was the price at the low end and now it has been sorted.

crap freakboy
Jan 12, 2005, 03:54 PM
I was under the impression that CNET was in the pocket of M$ or am I being an even bigger troll than the author?

crap freakboy
Jan 12, 2005, 04:06 PM
One more point, sure, not everyone wants to be creative but what is wrong with being able to when the mood suits?
I doubt that my mother for one would be awarded a D&AD Gold pencil for her attempt at creativity but is there really any harm in at least giving her the option to attempt her artistry? If left to to CNET's Editor at large mankind would still be sat in freezing caves not wanting to be 'creative' with two sticks of wood for fear of artistic failure.

Sun Baked
Jan 12, 2005, 04:21 PM
Yes, cleary the Apple is all style compared to Wallyworlds budget powerhouse HP/eMachines systems.Quick Specs: $468 $598 $698
Display: 17" CRT 17" CRT 15" LCD
Processor: 2.93 GHz 2.0 GHz 2.0 GHz
RAM: 256 MB 512 MB 256 MB
Multimedia Drive: DVD/CD-RW DVD +/- RW CD-RW
Hard Drive: 40 GB 80 GB 60 GBWhy buy Apple when you can have one of these dream machines, or the $199 stand-alone special.

Stella
Jan 12, 2005, 04:51 PM
Bitch bitch bitch - really means "I don't get it" / "I don't like apple"

xsedrinam
Jan 12, 2005, 05:08 PM
"Either or" language, especially when it comes to the tech world, is pretty naive. Drop that grid over a nicely written generalization of a Mac and/or PC community, and I'd say the writer has pretty much lost his/her credibility with any serious reader. "What student sets their pictures to a sound track"? Well, both my kids do. Why? One reason is because they can. They can easily marry form with substance and can't wait to upload their daily shoots and set it to presentation. And their friends aren't "reluctant viewers" who must tolerate the content. They ask for a repeat with "how did you do that....." kind of stuff.

"Both and" language and praxis are pretty much a good thing, especially when it comes to the tech world. Berklee School of Music is making a pretty good stab at both. ;)
http://www.apple.com/education/profiles/berkleeschool/
X

SuperChuck
Jan 12, 2005, 05:17 PM
What a freakin' moron. I hope an insidious virus was eating away his hard drive as he typed his "ugly is better" manifesto.

pimmie
Jan 12, 2005, 05:24 PM
No keyboard and mouse? Last time I bought a Peecee I was struck by the build-quality of those kbds and mice that come with crappy systems. Tossed them right in the trash, but apparantly the author really enjoys working with the type of kb and mouse he gets with his Gateway.

dsharits
Jan 12, 2005, 05:40 PM
All the presentations looked great, but they also seemed foreign and impersonal. Who puts a soundtrack to their family photos? "Mom's second-wedding shots--cue up the Skynrd." Most of us are lucky to have poorly labeled computer files, a cardboard box with prints and/or a vague idea of who is in the picture.

Again, it looked wonderful on stage, but if you actually synched your home photos into a slick presentation, your friends will fear that a pitch to buy a time share is coming next.

The following is the e-mail that I wrote to him:

Dear Sir,

I don't even know what to say after reading something like the article that you wrote about the MacWorld Expo. Please tell me, who wants to do a half-way job on something that they are investing time in? I know that if I am going to work on something, it is going to be done right or not at all. It sounds as if you are proud of not being able to create good-looking professional-quality presentations and documents on your PC.

Who puts a soundtrack to their family photos? Well, I do. I'm sorry if you don't understand how to do something as complicated as that, but you don't need to criticize the company that makes it easy and understandable for everyone. I'm sorry, but I am beyond storing pictures in cardboard boxes and trying to remember who is in the picture as well as when it was taken. I would much rather store all of my pictures in iPhoto, where they are easy to manipulate and print on request, as well as where they will not degrade over time. I know that my friends and family actually enjoy the shows that I put together, including the part where I tell them that I did it all with a Mac.

As far as the prices, why would you go for a low-ball PC that can't do anything beyond web surfing and e-mail? I know many people that would rather buy a computer that will last easily twice as long as a PC and will actually be able to handle their work and anything else that they throw at it.

I am part of this group that is trying to "land a marketing position" and I can tell you that when I create a presentation, I don't care about what people think about it or me. I only want it to be done right. I have both a Power Mac and an iBook, and I can tell you for a fact that I have far fewer problems and I am able to do much more than any of my friends who use PC's. The fact is, that you don't know what you are talking about, because you obviously have never used a Mac. Please, sir, if you are just going to criticize people who are more intelligent and computer savvy than you, because you can't figure out how to make your work look good, then I ask you to keep it to yourself. Go back to Windows 95 where you belong.

Daniel Sharits

shamino
Jan 12, 2005, 06:18 PM
All the presentations looked great, but they also seemed foreign and impersonal. Who puts a soundtrack to their family photos? "Mom's second-wedding shots--cue up the Skynrd." Most of us are lucky to have poorly labeled computer files, a cardboard box with prints and/or a vague idea of who is in the picture.

Again, it looked wonderful on stage, but if you actually synched your home photos into a slick presentation, your friends will fear that a pitch to buy a time share is coming next.
This reminds me of the idiot professors I had in college. I had to give presentations to my research group every few months. I made my transparencies using a word processor and a laser printer. So they looked nice and professional.

Some professors actually marked me down for that, saying that I should have been using hand-written transparencies. They claimed that a professional presentation makes people think you're lying about your research.

I though I was free of that brain-dead attitude when I graduated. But apparently it's alive and well in Michael Kanellos's circle of friends and family. Apparently they prefer garbage over something that looks professional.

Photorun
Jan 12, 2005, 06:22 PM
I was under the impression that CNET was in the pocket of M$ or am I being an even bigger troll than the author?

Troll? Heck no you aren't... you're dead on correct.

dsharits
Jan 12, 2005, 06:24 PM
I though I was free of that brain-dead attitude when I graduated. But apparently it's alive and well in Michael Kanellos's circle of friends and family. Apparently they prefer garbage over something that looks professional.

Welcome to the Wonderful World of Windows! :D Are you absolutely incompetent? Well you're just who we're looking for!

Daniel

fregedegpo
Jan 12, 2005, 06:49 PM
I had a bit of an argument about this subject with my pc-program-writing cousin. I showed him the new mac and he said, yeah, but it's still a mac. That stinks. Any kind of bias stinks.

hcuar
Jan 12, 2005, 07:10 PM
Some professors actually marked me down for that, saying that I should have been using hand-written transparencies. They claimed that a professional presentation makes people think you're lying about your research.


Time to find a new college... Sounds like yours produces PHBs.

Sharewaredemon
Jan 12, 2005, 10:27 PM
dsharits

Let us know what his reply is if he replies at all will you?

Thanks

shamino
Jan 13, 2005, 07:50 AM
Time to find a new college... Sounds like yours produces PHBs.
I graduated quite a while ago. The college itself is fine, but some professors (especially those with tenure) believe that work spent on preparing a presentation is a waste of time that could've been spent doing research.

xsedrinam
Jan 13, 2005, 09:30 AM
I graduated quite a while ago. The college itself is fine, but some professors (especially those with tenure) believe that work spent on preparing a presentation is a waste of time that could've been spent doing research.

Ask those same profs (assuming any of them write and are published) how much time is spent on preparation of content to accommodate their publishers. A good portion of time spent on any written thesis at graduate levels concerns itself with style (form) AND content. Most Composition professors, even at Bonehead undergraduate levels, won't accept a written document which doesn't acquiese to their prescribed form. Again, the point being that "style and substance" are married or, at least, mutually interested in one another ;)
X

dsharits
Jan 13, 2005, 09:32 AM
dsharits

Let us know what his reply is if he replies at all will you?

Thanks

Oh absolutely I will. You all will be the first to know, besides me of course.

Daniel

shamino
Jan 14, 2005, 10:18 AM
Ask those same profs (assuming any of them write and are published) how much time is spent on preparation of content to accommodate their publishers.
I didn't say they weren't hypocrites. And I think I said I think they are flat-out wrong.

Something happens otherwise intelligent people when you give them tenure. When you know you can't be fired, you stop caring about being right, or even consistent.