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MacBytes
Jan 13, 2005, 10:18 PM
Category: Humor
Link: Mr. Hoo, Creative\'s CEO isnt too impressed with the iPod Shuffle. (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20050113231846)
Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by Mudbug

Wigletbill
Jan 13, 2005, 10:42 PM
Mr. Who? :D

3Memos
Jan 13, 2005, 10:45 PM
:D in the humor column. Nice one!!

Nermal
Jan 13, 2005, 11:09 PM
Mr. Hoo, Creative's CEO isnt too impressed with the iPod Shuffle.
He doesn't have to be. Consumers are the ones who need to be impressed, not CEOs of competing companies :rolleyes:

tech4all
Jan 13, 2005, 11:15 PM
So I think the whole industry will just laugh at it....

We'll see who has the last laugh :p HA. HA. HA.

ALoLA
Jan 14, 2005, 12:06 AM
I never had any desire to get a Creative player, but I've already put my order in for an iPod shuffle. :D I saw an ad for a Creative MuVo (MustVomit ;) )... 256MB at the everyday low price of $99.99. :rolleyes:

mj_1903
Jan 14, 2005, 12:39 AM
I am pretty sure Apple will have the last laugh in this case. It doesn't really matter that it is '5 generations old', it's more that it is actually a perfect 1st Gen flash player and it's cheap.

redAPPLE
Jan 14, 2005, 12:40 AM
well guess what mister who, steve jobs isn't impressed either.

3Memos
Jan 14, 2005, 01:25 AM
The power of the RDF is not with Mr. Sim Wong Hoo, sadly. :p

Mindcrime
Jan 14, 2005, 02:24 AM
Over here in gadget-happy Taiwan, those micro flash players have been all the rage for years now. When the iPod was first introduced, everyone just shrugged and said "it's too big, no FM, etc." Then, once the iPod fad hit big time in the U.S. and the Apple-Taiwan marketing team started plastering those monocolor iPod adverts all over the city, the Taiwanese can't get enough iPods. They all want one, even though the iPod has less features than most mp3 players over here.

combatcolin
Jan 14, 2005, 02:58 AM
Well of course he's not going to be impressed with a rivals product. :rolleyes:

Although, to be honest the Shuffle dosn't impress me either.

Mord
Jan 14, 2005, 03:22 AM
the cheap cheap shinese mp3 players he refers to are almost as big as an ipod mini, are ugly as sin and crash on you having to restart them :eek:.


some twat at school bought 20 of them from hong kong and started selling them.

nagromme
Jan 14, 2005, 04:26 AM
A glance at Amazon's top-selling MP3 players list (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/new-for-you/top-sellers/-/electronics/516878/electronics/0/1/ref=e_ts_ln_4/) (once you scroll down past all the iPods!):

Rio Forge 512 (120 songs): $220 list, $158 after mail rebate
Rio Forge 128 (30 songs): $130 list, $60 on sale

iRiver iFP 799T 1GB (240 songs): $250 list, $230 on sale
iRiver iFP-190T 256 (60 songs): $130 list, $80 after mail rebate

SanDisk 1GB (240 songs): $200 list, $151 on sale
SanDisk 512 (120 songs): $180 list, $114 on sale
SanDisk 256 (60 songs): $100 list, $68 on sale

Creative MuVo Micro N200 512 (120 songs): $130 list, $125 on sale
Creative NOMAD MuVo TX FM 256 (60 songs): $170, $100 on sale
Creative NOMAD MuVo TX 256 (60 songs): $180 list, $86 on sale

And none of those appear to be as small as the Shuffle.

So yes, Apple didn't bulk out their player with FM radios and voice recorders. They went for LED indicators and no screen, which won't suit everyone. But they ALSO undercut everyone on price! An iPod need not be THE cheapest player... but this time, it is. (Among Amazon's top 50 sellers.) SanDisk came closest to Apple's price.

There are even USB flash drives at Amazon that cost as much or more than the Shuffle... and don't play music!

applefans
Jan 14, 2005, 05:02 AM
Well of course he's not going to be impressed with a rivals product. :rolleyes:

Although, to be honest the Shuffle dosn't impress me either.

If he really feel that way, then i feel sad for Creative (but happy for Apple). He chooses to ignore a product that can burn his own company down to ashes. :confused:

wrldwzrd89
Jan 14, 2005, 05:07 AM
A glance at Amazon's top-selling MP3 players list (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/new-for-you/top-sellers/-/electronics/516878/electronics/0/1/ref=e_ts_ln_4/) (once you scroll down past all the iPods!):

Rio Forge 512 (120 songs): $220 list, $158 after mail rebate
Rio Forge 128 (30 songs): $130 list, $60 on sale

iRiver iFP 799T 1GB (240 songs): $250 list, $230 on sale
iRiver iFP-190T 256 (60 songs): $130 list, $80 after mail rebate

SanDisk 1GB (240 songs): $200 list, $151 on sale
SanDisk 512 (120 songs): $180 list, $114 on sale
SanDisk 256 (60 songs): $100 list, $68 on sale

Creative MuVo Micro N200 512 (120 songs): $130 list, $125 on sale
Creative NOMAD MuVo TX FM 256 (60 songs): $170, $100 on sale
Creative NOMAD MuVo TX 256 (60 songs): $180 list, $86 on sale

And none of those appear to be as small as the Shuffle.

So yes, Apple didn't bulk out their player with FM radios and voice recorders. They went for LED indicators and no screen, which won't suit everyone. But they ALSO undercut everyone on price! An iPod need not be THE cheapest player... but this time, it is. (Among Amazon's top 50 sellers.) SanDisk came closest to Apple's price.

There are even USB flash drives at Amazon that cost as much or more than the Shuffle... and don't play music!
If that's true...look out, flash player market - here comes Apple, ready to stomp on your territory...
Just imagine what improvements Apple will think of for the next iPod shuffle - continuing to amaze everyone, myself included.

hob
Jan 14, 2005, 05:25 AM
This is all well and good, and I agree with most of the points already mentioned - but I think it's also fair too point out that Apple mustn't get complacent. They're selling lots and lots of iPods now, because they're cool. Sales have skyrocketed as we have seen - but fashions change. I will always cherish my good ol' iPod because I have always enjoyed listening to music on the go (Discman, Minidiscman, iPod 3G).

Creative are a very potent potential rival to Apple - some of their advertising is very damaging to the iPod... just pick up any magazine published around christmastime - certainly in the UK at any rate...

Hob

Fredstar
Jan 14, 2005, 07:12 AM
Did they say Creative sold over 2 million Micro's over the christmas quarter?!
That is pretty damn good and i am assuming the ipod sales were for the whole product range from mini's to photo's...?!
how do they only have 6% odd of the whole market share?!

applefans
Jan 14, 2005, 07:34 AM
Did they say Creative sold over 2 million Micro's over the christmas quarter?!
That is pretty damn good and i am assuming the ipod sales were for the whole product range from mini's to photo's...?!
how do they only have 6% odd of the whole market share?!

We never know, but it seem that Creative had lots of flash players. They didn't break down the proportion of flash/HD. SJ said the share of flash players is around 30%. Also, I believe the market share quoted by SJ is USA only, and creative sell a lot of flash players worldwide. Here in HK, though ipod is popular, there's zillion models of cheap flash players around.Of course, that's before the ipod shuffle. Now it seemed that ipod shuffle is the cheapest flash player in town unless the other make a huge price cut. It's interesting that Apple now gone in a price war. :rolleyes:

nagromme
Jan 14, 2005, 07:37 AM
Did they say Creative sold over 2 million Micro's over the christmas quarter?!
That is pretty damn good and i am assuming the ipod sales were for the whole product range from mini's to photo's...?!
how do they only have 6% odd of the whole market share?!

Apple has nearly the entire HARD DISK player market. The flash market is also sizable however.

chelseasian
Jan 14, 2005, 09:09 AM
Actually as with most Asian (Chinese) names the last name (surname) is always placed before the name (given name).

Thus his last name is Sim not Hoo, his name is Wong Hoo.

macridah
Jan 14, 2005, 09:40 AM
...wants to win the mp3 war. How about aim for something realistic like number 3 market share. HP will have number 2 simply cuz the resell the iPod ;)

eazyway
Jan 14, 2005, 09:40 AM
Did they say Creative sold over 2 million Micro's over the christmas quarter?!
That is pretty damn good and i am assuming the ipod sales were for the whole product range from mini's to photo's...?!
how do they only have 6% odd of the whole market share?!

1.The data is likely a month or so out of date for a true comparison.
2. PLUS Creative;s sales are for all their MP3 line flash included.
3. The chart Jobs shows is Revenue Dollars.
So forthe time of that chart it was likely the case. Work it back now though you may find that Creative had revenues near 200 M ($100 per unit...likely too high) or about 18% of Apple's revenue. Now take 18% of Apple's Share of 65% and you get 11.7% at $70 per unit that share is at 8%.
At the end of the Christmas Q when Apple was out of stock Creative likely had their best sales.

the_mole1314
Jan 14, 2005, 09:47 AM
Mr. Hoo (or Boo-Hoo) dosn't get it. US people don't want FM tuners that can't get reception, or small hard to read LCDs, they want ease of use and a name. They get both with an iPod shuffle. Oh, lets not forget about that small little thing called price.

Photorun
Jan 14, 2005, 10:01 AM
Mr. Hoo (or Boo-Hoo) dosn't get it. US people don't want FM tuners that can't get reception, or small hard to read LCDs, they want ease of use and a name. They get both with an iPod shuffle. Oh, lets not forget about that small little thing called price.

Not to mention most FM stations are sucktacular playing the same old crap formula every hour. Hell, a 16 MB MP3 player could hold most radio station's daily playlist. I have my iPod hooked through my Audi, and a six disc CD changer, I've listed to the radio in my car maybe twice in a couple years. It seems it's the MP3 maker market trying to put all that and a bag of chips in their players that aren't getting it.

Fredstar
Jan 14, 2005, 10:46 AM
Sorry guys i read the artical in a rush and i thought they said that the Creative Micro (5gb opposition to the mini) sold 2 million over the christmas period alone. So lots of flash sells, the guy is obviously is a bit annoyed that Apple have brought out these Shuffle's to go after the flash market that is obviously a lot bigger in units than the HD one.
I will say it again but the opposition don't have a CHANCE now. As you guys have said the small screen is torture to navigate and who wants the radio with bad reception?! Portable radios cost about 5 now for really small ones.

LimitedEdition
Jan 14, 2005, 11:02 AM
Of course it doesn't have a screen, Mr. Creative Exec. The whole point of it is to introduce some randomness in to your life. If it had a screen you would know what was on it and it would ruin the magic.

People are going to think it is reading their mind when it randomly picks songs that reflect what they were thinking and they will fall in love with it.
How is your player going to make people fall in love with it? By what mechanism?

It even comes with a lanyard. i.e. it will be close to your heart in more ways than one.

TwitchOSX
Jan 14, 2005, 11:07 AM
Bout time I got a link approved =)

/Mr. Hoo is an idiot.

nagromme
Jan 14, 2005, 04:19 PM
The random thing is, it must be said, partly an excuse for having no screen. A very clever excuse!

It's also good marketing in that shuffle play really IS a feature that makes people think about getting a digital player.

And having no screen has a REAL advantage too--small size, weight, and cost. And, yes, simplicity. Sometimes simplicity is nicer than power.

maya
Jan 14, 2005, 04:36 PM
The random thing is, it must be said, partly an excuse for having no screen. A very clever excuse!

It's also good marketing in that shuffle play really IS a feature that makes people think about getting a digital player.

And having no screen has a REAL advantage too--small size, weight, and cost. And, yes, simplicity. Sometimes simplicity is nicer than power.

If you look at the placement of the LED lights, the USB connector, the controls and battery, headphone jack and back playlist switch there is NO ROOM for an LCD.

Smart marketing to keep the cost down, battery life up, make it durable. ALL A YES.

I am curious if you can attach a SONY LCD remote to the shuffle. Not to sure on the SONY LCD remote working does it use an extra plug alongside the headphone jack like the iPod remote or is it just a headphone plug.

Would be interesting if Apple releases something along that line for the CONTROL FREAK(s). :)

3Memos
Jan 14, 2005, 04:39 PM
Speaking of which, can the shuffle be controlled by an iPod remote?

maya
Jan 14, 2005, 04:42 PM
Speaking of which, can the shuffle be controlled by an iPod remote?

NO because the iPod remote has an extra plug beside the headphone jack/plug. :)

3Memos
Jan 14, 2005, 05:03 PM
NO because the iPod remote has an extra plug beside the headphone jack/plug. :)

Oh. I was actually thinking of the plug they used on the 2G 20GB iPod. I know with the 3G or 4G, they went with a different design.

maya
Jan 14, 2005, 05:04 PM
Oh. I was actually thinking of the plug they used on the 2G 20GB iPod. I know with the 3G or 4G, they went with a different design.

Could be possible, however why would you want to the shuffle is small enough and looks like a remote. Defeats the purpose. :)

3Memos
Jan 14, 2005, 05:07 PM
Could be possible, however why would you want to the shuffle is small enough and looks like a remote. Defeats the purpose. :)

Yeah. I guess you could strap it to the outside of a ski jacket with only the controls showing, and use it as the remote.

nagromme
Jan 14, 2005, 06:26 PM
The old iPods still had special connections (circular around the jack) for the remote, and the Shuffle lacks those connections. But like people said, it's barely bigger than a remote anyway--and has no moving parts--so why add cord mess?

angelneo
Jan 14, 2005, 10:58 PM
Once again. its Mr Sim not Mr Hoo. For Chinese (not from China the country, but Chinese race, he's from Singapore btw), the family name always come first..

Anyway, I think he is just jealous and peeved that Apple managed to steal his thunder since Creative is the first (i think) to start selling hard-disk based mp3 players. Secondly, judging from his comments, I think he still don't quite get how Apple managed to get their iPod so desirable. He just sounds like a whinning kid.

maya
Jan 14, 2005, 11:03 PM
Once again. its Mr Sim not Mr Hoo. For Chinese (not from China the country, but Chinese race, he's from Singapore btw), the family name always come first..

Anyway, I think he is just jealous and peeved that Apple managed to steal his thunder since Creative is the first (i think) to start selling hard-disk based mp3 players. Secondly, judging from his comments, I think he still don't quite get how Apple managed to get their iPod so desirable. He just sounds like a whinning kid.

He works for a competing company in regards to a competing product, there is no reason why he should not feel the way he does. Its natural. He might even use an iPod himself at home or his children (if he has any) or others around him. However this is making press and he doesn't want to loose his job thus the comments at hand. :)

3Memos
Jan 14, 2005, 11:18 PM
He works for a competing company in regards to a competing product, there is no reason why he should not feel the way he does. Its natural. He might even use an iPod himself at home or his children (if he has any) or others around him. However this is making press and he doesn't want to loose his job thus the comments at hand. :)

Creative needs to come up with an iTunes killer if they ever hope to dethrone the iPod.

And Apple already has a 30-year lead in that department.

maya
Jan 14, 2005, 11:28 PM
Creative needs to come up with an iTunes killer if they ever hope to dethrone the iPod.

And Apple already has a 30-year lead in that department.

Without iTunes like software, other flash and HDD music player makers will die a slow slow death.

Shuffle might speed up the process. :p ;) :)

3Memos
Jan 14, 2005, 11:53 PM
Without iTunes like software, other flash and HDD music player makers will die a slow slow death.

Shuffle might speed up the process. :p ;) :)

Exactly. All these other companies add stuff after stuff to their players, yet Apple's approach has always been to make it simpler. iPod shuffle can't get any simpler, therefore, one can only deduce that it will kill all the competition. In fact, Apple itself has created its own "iPod-killer".

applefans
Jan 15, 2005, 12:17 AM
Of course it doesn't have a screen, Mr. Creative Exec. The whole point of it is to introduce some randomness in to your life. If it had a screen you would know what was on it and it would ruin the magic.

People are going to think it is reading their mind when it randomly picks songs that reflect what they were thinking and they will fall in love with it.
How is your player going to make people fall in love with it? By what mechanism?

It even comes with a lanyard. i.e. it will be close to your heart in more ways than one.

I can imagine before the end of MWSF 2006 keynote, SJ would say....
" ...... and there's one more thing.....[silent for couple of seconds]... I want to have a nickel everytime people ask me why don't you put a screen on the very cheap ipod shuffle. So, in respond to this comments, i would like to introduce this......"
He take out a ipod shuffle from his pocket, which look no different from the current model and said....
"Here is the new ipod shuffle, 2GB and sell for $299......, so i respond to the 'very cheap' comment, OK?"
Oooooh... the audience respond to the lack lustre demonstration......
"well wait a minute, wait a minute........" SJ hold one ipod shuffle in each hand and try to calm the audience...
"can you see the big difference between this two ipod shuffle? Camera, please focus on this two little thing...."
Oooooooooo... the audience see absolutely no difference.
SJ then take up a paper and hold the first ipod shuffle close to the paper, and oop, a familiar UI in colour was seen on the paper.
"What make the difference is the micro LCD projector we build inside this small hole...., actually, we call it ipod shuffle photo...... and it can hold 480 songs or 800 photos, and oop... isn't this photo on the paper beautiful? ...and look carefully.. this wheel is in fact a micro clickwheel..."
Wow.... the audience is mad with applause..... :D :D :D :D