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View Full Version : EyeTV HD>Mac Mini Server>HB>ATV2




EvilC5
Nov 16, 2010, 08:37 AM
I have been playing around with taking programs that I have recorded on my HD DVR and put them on mini to stream to ATV. Im not sure if any others are doing this, but I have a few questions about the length of time it takes to transcode eyetv to atv readable formats. last night I took a 2.5 hour show and transcoded it using HB nightly to the apple tv preset and it took well over 6 hours to finish.

does this seem right using a 2010 mini 2.66 running OS X 10.6.4 server with 4gb a ram?

I love the end result, but the juice might not be worth the squeeze for a long term solution.



zhenya
Nov 16, 2010, 09:23 AM
You don't specify what presets/settings you were using in Handbrake, so giving you an accurate answer is somewhat difficult, because that makes all the difference in how long a rip takes. What settings were you using, and what FPS was it averaging? Can you check Activity Monitor to make sure it was using all cpu cores? That sounds like a long time, but if you used very high settings, not impossible. Trans-coding is extremely cpu dependent.

One work-around to trans-coding everything up-front would be to use an app like Zumocast if you have an iOS device. When 4.2 is released, you will be able to send anything Zumocast plays directly to the AppleTV, while Zumocast does the trans-coding of whatever format files in real time. What remains to be seen is what the quality will look like on a large screen.

Tilpots
Nov 16, 2010, 09:26 AM
EyeTV should be able to transcode it for you in much less time. Any reason you're trying to use Handbrake instead?

From A Buick 8
Nov 16, 2010, 09:48 AM
EyeTV should be able to transcode it for you in much less time. Any reason you're trying to use Handbrake instead?
+1 on this
I use eyeTV hybrid to record TV shows on my imac and then let the eyeTv software transcode it and add it to itunes.

That way I watch on the ATV the next night with ease.

EvilC5
Nov 16, 2010, 11:55 AM
+1 on this
I use eyeTV hybrid to record TV shows on my imac and then let the eyeTv software transcode it and add it to itunes.

That way I watch on the ATV the next night with ease.

im using the apple tv preset on the most current nightly build. its saying ~15-18 FPS while encoding. as for not using eyetv, it was even slower.

its making me think that somehow my server is not using all of its resources to do this task, and I have not been able to get a clear answer on that.

I could try moving it to my imac or mpb and see if its any quicker, but i read where people are getting 40-50 fps using hb to transcode to ATV preset, and I have never seen that on any of my mac's.

'73-B
Nov 16, 2010, 12:12 PM
im using the apple tv preset on the most current nightly build. its saying ~15-18 FPS while encoding. as for not using eyetv, it was even slower.

its making me think that somehow my server is not using all of its resources to do this task, and I have not been able to get a clear answer on that.

I could try moving it to my imac or mpb and see if its any quicker, but i read where people are getting 40-50 fps using hb to transcode to ATV preset, and I have never seen that on any of my mac's.

I recently added a Turbo H.264 HD to the mix. Using a 1.8C2D Mini I can export from EyeTV to the ATV or Ipad preset at about 50-60 fps. For a reference a 1 hr recording takes slightly longer than an hour to export from within EyeTV. I have not tried this using HB, so I can't comment on your FPS specifically.

zhenya
Nov 16, 2010, 12:13 PM
It also depends on the input file. Honestly, if you are dealing with high-def content, 15-20 fps doesn't sound absurdly low. I see 50-70 fps on my 2.8 Core2 iMac with SD content, but HD stuff is normally around 25. The thing to do when transcoding is to add a ton of stuff to the queue and just let it run in the background until finished.

sblanford
Nov 16, 2010, 12:17 PM
+1 on this
I use eyeTV hybrid to record TV shows on my imac and then let the eyeTv software transcode it and add it to itunes.

That way I watch on the ATV the next night with ease.

Does that automatically take out the commercials? Does anyone know of a way to take the commercials out of TV shows?

How does the TV shows display on your APPLE TV? Do they get lumped together into a season?

EvilC5
Nov 16, 2010, 12:22 PM
It also depends on the input file. Honestly, if you are dealing with high-def content, 15-20 fps doesn't sound absurdly low. I see 50-70 fps on my 2.8 Core2 iMac with SD content, but HD stuff is normally around 25. The thing to do when transcoding is to add a ton of stuff to the queue and just let it run in the background until finished.

the eyetv only captures in HD "I think?" since I am using the component output. every thing I have been recording has been in HD except 1 show. the eyetv files start out at about 6-7GB per hour.

I did that the other night and its not really and issue, just seems like there might be a better way to access the secret sauce....:D

I posted on the elgato forum about the turbo h.264 HD, and didnt really get an answer that made sense. I wouldnt mind getting one if I knew it would speed things along and not have any quirks.

'73-B
Nov 16, 2010, 12:24 PM
Does that automatically take out the commercials? Does anyone know of a way to take the commercials out of TV shows?

How does the TV shows display on your APPLE TV? Do they get lumped together into a season?

This does not automatically take out the commercials, though I believe there is a plug-in or script out there to let you do this as a step before exporting.

So far, based on my experience, the recordings are lumped by show when you see them in ATV. I have one show that spans two seasons, but I do not see it broken out by season. I'm not sure if there is a way to that, but you may check out the scripts forum over at the Elgato website to get an idea of what people have come up with.

From A Buick 8
Nov 16, 2010, 12:27 PM
Does that automatically take out the commercials? Does anyone know of a way to take the commercials out of TV shows?

How does the TV shows display on your APPLE TV? Do they get lumped together into a season?

No this does not take out the commercials. You have to do that yourself, i have not felt the need, but i am sure some folks will chime in with a good way to do it.

Right now the ATV does a poor job of cataloging TV shows. If you use smart playlist then you can set it up like that.

EvilC5
Nov 16, 2010, 01:11 PM
No this does not take out the commercials. You have to do that yourself, i have not felt the need, but i am sure some folks will chime in with a good way to do it.

Right now the ATV does a poor job of cataloging TV shows. If you use smart playlist then you can set it up like that.



there is a script to do it automatically, but I have not used it, I removed them on a few shows like Sons of Anarchy that I know I will keep, but the rest its not worth the time.

I use Meta-X to tag all of my content, and if you use the show name, it will group them together, and from there you can split them by season and episode.

eleven59
Nov 16, 2010, 02:46 PM
i use quicktime pro to edit out the commercials...

i used to record OTA HD broadcasts thru eyetv from the imac (2.4c2d, 2gb ram), convert to atv format in HB, then edit out the commercials in quciktime.

it took a while even for a 30 min show

NYCAVS
Jan 19, 2011, 08:06 PM
I know this thread has been inactive but seems like a good place for my question...

I have the latest 2010 macmini server, ATV2, and and running EyeTV HD and plex. Just now in the process of getting it set up. EyeTV records the shows well and puts the files in the EyeTV archive folder on my HD2 (500GB). I generally try to make the recordings via a smartlist so they are automatically converted to ATV format for itunes to recognize it (which it does). Then via itunes home sharing I can share the recorded files around the house and can connect to it from the ATV2 this way. All the files seem to show up in a jumble (movies, TV shows, etc) so haven't solved that problem yet. In addition, shows up in plex that way... very annoying. I'm sure I can individually label the files... not sure whether best to do it in iTunes, finder, other? Haven't solved the commercial and extra start time snipping issue but I suppose one could do in quicktime or imovie if one wants. Haven't solved the duplication issue... seems like two versions of the same file show up in itunes.. both seem to work. Overall, my main question is how to streamline the categorization of the file to movie, tv, etc and how to autodelete the eyetv file (if that is advisable)... Thanks for any advice...

KeithJenner
Jan 20, 2011, 03:47 AM
I know this thread has been inactive but seems like a good place for my question...

I have the latest 2010 macmini server, ATV2, and and running EyeTV HD and plex. Just now in the process of getting it set up. EyeTV records the shows well and puts the files in the EyeTV archive folder on my HD2 (500GB). I generally try to make the recordings via a smartlist so they are automatically converted to ATV format for itunes to recognize it (which it does). Then via itunes home sharing I can share the recorded files around the house and can connect to it from the ATV2 this way. All the files seem to show up in a jumble (movies, TV shows, etc) so haven't solved that problem yet. In addition, shows up in plex that way... very annoying. I'm sure I can individually label the files... not sure whether best to do it in iTunes, finder, other? Haven't solved the commercial and extra start time snipping issue but I suppose one could do in quicktime or imovie if one wants. Haven't solved the duplication issue... seems like two versions of the same file show up in itunes.. both seem to work. Overall, my main question is how to streamline the categorization of the file to movie, tv, etc and how to autodelete the eyetv file (if that is advisable)... Thanks for any advice...

This is how I do it.

I set EyeTV to record everything I want, and automatically export to Apple TV. That way, they show up on the Apple TV menu fairly soon after they have finished (about 30 mins, depending on the program and computer speed).

I then watch the programs on the Apple TV. Once I have watched the program, I have to delete it from iTunes, which is a minor inconvenience, but I generally just do a clear out every week or so.

If I don't want to keep a copy I also delete it from the EyeTV menu (again, I clear out every few days).

If I do want to keep a copy I use the EyeTV edit function to strip out the ends and commercials. I find that EyeTV is really easy to use for this (the old software I used was a pain, but it literally takes a minute or so with EyeTV). If there are no commercials you just set the marker at the start and finish and export the clip. If there are commercials you mark each bit you want to remove and then use the "compact" option. It really is very easy.

The only issue I have found is that the new Apple TV doesn't like the chapter marks that stripping out the commercials leaves. To get round this, I just re-edit after compacting and clear the markers. Then I export it.

There are a variety of ways to organise the programs within your iTunes library. It depends on your individual setup. Personally, I use the tagging routines included in the "How-To" at the top of this forum. The TV database it uses is generally very up to date, and I find that the majority of programs are on the database before they are aired. If that doesn't work I just make any changes required using Subler. Just look at the tags that any of your existing TV shows have and use that as a template.

This is a really easy and, I find, intuitive way of dealing with this. The only bit that is a pain is having to delete shows from the EyeTV App as well as iTunes, but as long as you are reasonably organised and have sufficient disk space, it isn't a major problem.

EvilC5
Jan 20, 2011, 07:51 AM
what he said....

i use meta-x to tag my shows, if im just doing a bunch of them at once, metax will tag them all as tv shows at once. if you want to put them in some order to save, it takes a little bit of time, but i usually do it once a week or so.

things i want to keep, i will take the time to remove the commercials, but if im just going to watch it and delete it, i just fast foward past them just like i would on my dvr.

the export to itunes, it sounds like you have both the iphone and atv formats checked so it makes 2 copies. i just do the atv one, and i domt have the same speed as others do and im not sure why, but it takes 20-30 min to transcode a hour show.

presently im recording all of barrett jackson auction, and the 5 hour blocks are taking forever to convert....tomorrow the block is 11 hours, so im afraid it might take days...lol



This is how I do it.

I set EyeTV to record everything I want, and automatically export to Apple TV. That way, they show up on the Apple TV menu fairly soon after they have finished (about 30 mins, depending on the program and computer speed).

I then watch the programs on the Apple TV. Once I have watched the program, I have to delete it from iTunes, which is a minor inconvenience, but I generally just do a clear out every week or so.

If I don't want to keep a copy I also delete it from the EyeTV menu (again, I clear out every few days).

If I do want to keep a copy I use the EyeTV edit function to strip out the ends and commercials. I find that EyeTV is really easy to use for this (the old software I used was a pain, but it literally takes a minute or so with EyeTV). If there are no commercials you just set the marker at the start and finish and export the clip. If there are commercials you mark each bit you want to remove and then use the "compact" option. It really is very easy.

The only issue I have found is that the new Apple TV doesn't like the chapter marks that stripping out the commercials leaves. To get round this, I just re-edit after compacting and clear the markers. Then I export it.

There are a variety of ways to organise the programs within your iTunes library. It depends on your individual setup. Personally, I use the tagging routines included in the "How-To" at the top of this forum. The TV database it uses is generally very up to date, and I find that the majority of programs are on the database before they are aired. If that doesn't work I just make any changes required using Subler. Just look at the tags that any of your existing TV shows have and use that as a template.

This is a really easy and, I find, intuitive way of dealing with this. The only bit that is a pain is having to delete shows from the EyeTV App as well as iTunes, but as long as you are reasonably organised and have sufficient disk space, it isn't a major problem.

Tilpots
Jan 20, 2011, 08:15 AM
EvilC5,

So I was looking back at your OP and am a bit confused. Are you pulling the file from HD DVR and not a HDD on your computer?

Can you be a little more specific with your work flow and equipment, like how does your file get from place to place?

EvilC5
Jan 20, 2011, 08:52 AM
EvilC5,

So I was looking back at your OP and am a bit confused. Are you pulling the file from HD DVR and not a HDD on your computer?

Can you be a little more specific with your work flow and equipment, like how does your file get from place to place?

i started out taking things that were stored on my fios dvr that I hed been keeping because i enjoyed watching them over and over (mostly car stuff). so when I first got the eyetv setup, I would just play the shows from the dvr in real time and capture them with the eyetv to my mini. since then, I do not set any of my programs to record on the dvr anymore, I just set the eyetv to record them, it changes the channel, records, converts, and even will put it in itunes for me if im lazy.

with the eyetv app on my iphone, I can even set it to record quickly if I come across something I want to save.

Tilpots
Jan 20, 2011, 09:02 AM
i started out taking things that were stored on my fios dvr that I hed been keeping because i enjoyed watching them over and over (mostly car stuff). so when I first got the eyetv setup, I would just play the shows from the dvr in real time and capture them with the eyetv to my mini. since then, I do not set any of my programs to record on the dvr anymore, I just set the eyetv to record them, it changes the channel, records, converts, and even will put it in itunes for me if im lazy.

with the eyetv app on my iphone, I can even set it to record quickly if I come across something I want to save.

So your DVR is the EyeTV on your Mini? And it's recording thru component cables from your Fios box to what, the EyeTV HD?

EvilC5
Jan 20, 2011, 09:06 AM
So your DVR is the EyeTV on your Mini? And it's recording thru component cables from your Fios box to what, the EyeTV HD?

eyetv hd is hooked to my fios box via component cables. the fios box is a dvr also, but my shows I record with eyetv...the wife can fill it up with the biggest glee cakeboss of orange county....lol

since the fios box is a dual tuner dvr, she can record something on the fios box, and I can still record my shows to the mini with the eyetv...except when she has 2 crappy shows set to record at the same time...:D

Tilpots
Jan 20, 2011, 09:17 AM
OK. I have the Hybrid, which I think is the difference in encoding speeds. The Hybrid records in native MPEG2 format, while the HD must convert the file to an H.264 format. This would result in a significant increase in encoding times, I believe. From the EyeTV website (http://support.elgato.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=3914&nav=0,1,380,29,60&languageid=1&group=englishdefault):




Video Encoding


EyeTV Hybrid does not have an encoding chip in the hardware, to create SDTV video in MPEG-1 or MPEG-2 formats. Instead, it uses software encoding.

EyeTV Hybrid receives HD signals from digital antenna (ATSC) or unencrypted digital cable (Clear QAM) - those signals are pre-encoded by the broadcaster.

EyeTV HD has an encoding chip in the hardware, to create SDTV or HDTV in the H.264 format.

Files created by EyeTV HD will need less hard drive space to store, since H.264 is more efficient than MPEG-1 or MPEG-2.

Only EyeTV HD can record a full resolution file in SDTV or HDTV, and also record a separate copy of that video in iPhone resolution, all at the same time.


Video Playback


EyeTV Hybrid can play HDTV content on many types of Macs, from a Dual G5 on up. This is because MPEG-2 video is not that hard to play (decode).

EyeTV HD can play HDTV content only only the newest Intel Macs. This is because H.264 video is much more difficult to play (decode).


This all makes a big difference for for Grey's American Anatomy Idol. :D



EDIT: Looking at the EyeTV HD a bit more, I found this (http://www.elgato.com/elgato/na/mainmenu/buy.en.html):

EyeTV HD also features a unique dual-format capture mode that records in the iPad and iPhone formats at the same time. This feature supports super-fast exports to iTunes from EyeTV, and facilitates the streaming of live and recorded TV to an iPhone or iPad using the optional EyeTV app.

Have you looked into this dual-format recording mode?

EvilC5
Jan 20, 2011, 09:46 AM
I usually check the iphone option, but only so I can watch it on my phone if im forced to watch dora the american survivor idol when the wife and son are in the room....

I posted on the elgato forum about the h264 hardware encoder that they have to see if it would speed it up, and didnt reaally get an answer to make me want to spend the 100 bucks to get it.



OK. I have the Hybrid, which I think is the difference in encoding speeds. The Hybrid records in native MPEG2 format, while the HD must convert the file to an H.264 format. This would result in a significant increase in encoding times, I believe. From the EyeTV website (http://support.elgato.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=3914&nav=0,1,380,29,60&languageid=1&group=englishdefault):




This all makes a big difference for for Grey's American Anatomy Idol. :D



EDIT: Looking at the EyeTV HD a bit more, I found this (http://www.elgato.com/elgato/na/mainmenu/buy.en.html):



Have you looked into this dual-format recording mode?

NYCAVS
Jan 20, 2011, 03:03 PM
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Thanks to you all for your replys and for resuming this thread. When you record a show via the iPhone EyeTV app, how are you able to auto-export to ATV (or other) format. Doesn't give the option. Do you export later via the MacMini? Also, once file exported, any way to auto delete the eyetv file to save space? I'm not familiar with AppleScript but I suspect that is the answer...

NYCAVS
Jan 20, 2011, 04:32 PM
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When you guys use meta-x to tag the programs, at what stage do you tag it at?

KeithJenner
Jan 20, 2011, 05:25 PM
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Thanks to you all for your replys and for resuming this thread. When you record a show via the iPhone EyeTV app, how are you able to auto-export to ATV (or other) format. Doesn't give the option. Do you export later via the MacMini? Also, once file exported, any way to auto delete the eyetv file to save space? I'm not familiar with AppleScript but I suspect that is the answer...

I don't think you can set it to auto export when recording via the App. Whenever I do this I have to export it later as you say.

I also suspect you are right about the AppleScript, but I don't know how you would do it.

KeithJenner
Jan 20, 2011, 05:28 PM
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When you guys use meta-x to tag the programs, at what stage do you tag it at?

I don't use meta-x, but I do my tagging when I've exported the final version. I don't think it matters though. The original metadata from EyeTV is retained during edits, so if you changed it before exporting then I'm sure your changes would be retained too.

NYCAVS
Jan 20, 2011, 06:43 PM
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Thanks... If you don't use meta-x what do you use? Is tagging more for art or more for other info-- movie vs tv vs other?

KeithJenner
Jan 20, 2011, 06:56 PM
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Thanks... If you don't use meta-x what do you use? Is tagging more for art or more for other info-- movie vs tv vs other?

I use the tagging parts of the Automating process that is included in this thread:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=805573

I didn't get on with meta-x and heard lots of warning about it corrupting the files. The method I use works perfectly and the databases are very good.

It's slightly difficult to follow, but basically, you download and install this file:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/242398/BatchRipActions-1.0.6.dmg

And then select your files, right click and choose your option from "services". More details of the options are given in the forth post on the thread.

To be honest, I'm surprised that so many people on here use meta-x and such like when this superb resource is available right at the top of the forum. I suppose it's partly because there is so much info in that thread that it's easy to be put off. It's worth the bit of effort to get set up though.

EvilC5
Jan 21, 2011, 07:19 AM
I have not heard anything about meta-x messing anything up, I have used it on 100's of movies and shows....

I have my workflow like this....I have folders called "to be encoded" "to add metadata" "from eyetv" and "ripped files"

the encoded folder is for other formats that I have downloaded or what have you.
the metadata folder is where HB drops all of its finished files so I can add metadata to them
the from eyetv is where i export the m4v files from its export
and ripped is where I put my vob files from mac the ripper for archive after encoding.

im sure I could probably automate it, but I dont devote as much time to this project as I did when I started, mainly because im addicted to Gran Turismo on PS3....:D

KeithJenner
Jan 21, 2011, 09:02 AM
I don't automate my process at all, but I picked the bits that work from that useful thread.

My issue with meta-x was it failing to find quite a lot of the stuff I wanted to tag, and I find the method I use (which draws from the excellent tvdb database) has found almost everything. I gave up with meta-x after I only had about a 50% success rate with my first batch.

If meta-x is working for you then I wouldn't suggest you change. I never had a problem with it corrupting my files, but I came across lots of discussion about it (just type "meta-x corrupt" in Google). Personal experience is better than internet rumours, but those discussions, plus my initial problems finding shows, were enough to make me look elsewhere before I got settled with it.

Phillie14586
Jan 21, 2011, 11:59 AM
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Thanks to you all for your replys and for resuming this thread. When you record a show via the iPhone EyeTV app, how are you able to auto-export to ATV (or other) format. Doesn't give the option. Do you export later via the MacMini? Also, once file exported, any way to auto delete the eyetv file to save space? I'm not familiar with AppleScript but I suspect that is the answer...

Check out the threads here http://forums.elgato.com/viewforum.php?f=91 All the scripts are written for you. Also has a link to the Plex forum to rename all you exported files for Plex. Also has a thread on auto commercial tagging and removal.

NYCAVS
Jan 23, 2011, 09:48 AM
Check out the threads here http://forums.elgato.com/viewforum.php?f=91 All the scripts are written for you. Also has a link to the Plex forum to rename all you exported files for Plex. Also has a thread on auto commercial tagging and removal.

Thanks. Haven't ever used scripts but I suppose if I want to continue with my ambitious plans to automate processes, I will have to make that leap. Thanks for the links. If anyone knows an easy way to view the EyeTV or converted files (in iTunes or Plex) on a networked PS3 please direct me.... Now that I have the EyeTV files available on our Apple TV and macs and our iPhones, my wife wants to know how to view the files in our playroom which has a PS3 and TV alone. Obviously, could buy additional hardware if really needed but would be nice to view via PS3. I have no idea even what uPnP really means or how it's used but I gather the solution will need that knowledge... starting to read up on it...

Sad that all these video formats are so incompatible... must be DRM, fairplay, and IP rights at the root....

EvilC5
Jan 24, 2011, 07:02 AM
I need to educate myself on the commercial removal scripts....it would save me some disk space for sure!

I recored the entire Barrett Jackson Auction this past week, over 40 hours. I noticed that the eyetv software didnt do well exporting to ATV format by itself. I had to stop it and re-export it every morning because it was hung up.

I dont know if the size of the file matters, the 11 hour cut was ~40gb if I remember correct.

cutting commercials out probably would have cut an hour from the 11 total....