DigiTimes Reports PowerBook G5 and iBook G5 Contracts

[MacRumors]

An article (http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20050114A7040.html) today in DigiTimes reports on Apple's Taiwanese contractors, saying that Foxconn Electronics (also known as Hon Hai Precision Industry) is contracted to manufacture and ship 100,000 or more Mac minis per month and that Asustek is contracted to manufacture and ship up to 400,000 to 500,000 iPod shuffles per month.

Almost as an afterthought, the article mentions that Asustek, which has been manufacturing and shipping iBook G4s at the rate of 110,000 to 120,000 per month, is to begin shipping an iBook G5 in the second quarter of 2005.

An accompanying chart shows again that Asustek is to delivery iBook G5s in 2005 Q2 (quantity 100,000 to 125,000 per month across both iBook model lines), and also that Quanta Computer is to deliver PowerBook G5s (quantity 30,000 to 50,000 per month) by the same quarter (2005 Q2).

Related stories:Jan 2005 Flash iPod at MacWorld Expo? (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/01/20050106004421.shtml)Dec 2004 ASUSTeK to Manufacture Flash iPods? (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/12/20041218233747.shtml)Dec 2003 Apple's 17-inch PowerBook Production (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031217112619.shtml)Oct 2003 Quanta to Produce New iMacs (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/10/20031030174555.shtml)

[maya]

WoW too many threads on the same topic:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=104959 :)

[Blue Velvet]

Let the games begin...

[ssamani]

I'm sure its been said before on one of the other threads, but for this one....

New Powerbooks Next Tuesday.... :)

[mkwilson68]

There's no way they will move the ibook to a G5: they must be putting every effort into a PB G5, and would bemuch less concerned about the ibook. There is HUGE pent up demand for a much faster PB: when they get a G5 out of the door, the profits will soar again, and they know it.

[maya]

There's no way they will move the ibook to a G5: they must be putting every effort into a PB G5, and would bemuch less concerned about the ibook. There is HUGE pent up demand for a much faster PB: when they get a G5 out of the door, the profits will soar again, and they know it.

Look at the current lines and both lines sell well. :)

iBook G5 will be released at 1.6Ghz and the PowerBooks at 2.0GHz+

There is a gap. :)

The PowerBook will be released at WWDC and the iBook at MacWorld in Aug/Sept. :) Full circle as the iMac G5 was released in Aug/Sept 2004 as will the iBook G5. :)

PowerMac G5 was released at WWDC 2003. so it makes sense that the PowerBook G5 be released also at WWDC 2005. :)

[Benj]

There's no way they will move the ibook to a G5: they must be putting every effort into a PB G5, and would bemuch less concerned about the ibook. There is HUGE pent up demand for a much faster PB: when they get a G5 out of the door, the profits will soar again, and they know it.

I would have thought we would be waiting at least a year from the PB going G5 before the iBook follows. The iBook only went G4 in late 2003 I think. (A long time after the PB.)

[klaus]

Hmmm, very weird that these charts are made public. And without the author saying ANYTHING about the G5 laptops on this chart..

When is the 2nd quarter of 2005, is that the fiscal quarter or april to june?

In the conference call, they said it was a huge technical challenge to put a G5 in a laptop, and I'm sure it will, but I bet they have been working on it for over a year, or even since the intro of the G5 chip.

And since they said at the last conference call, that they weren't gonna compete in the low-end pc market..well.. we all know how that turned out didn't we?

Hoping it's true (i'll be buying a *book when I leave home, to be mobile around the house and on vacation)

[pigwin32]

This sounds too weird to be true, probably just a typo. I can't find the availability date for the Freescale MPC7448, this is the pin-compatible drop-in replacement for the current G4 and is likely to be released soonish. I think that was supposed to be available early 2005. And given that Apple just released results for "fiscal 2005 first quarter ended December 25, 2004", I'm picking we may already be in Q2? This would indicate the speed-bump PowerBooks are due to be released soon and are likely to incorporate the MPC7448.

Also, given CFO Peter Oppenheimer' comments about when to expect a PowerBook G5 vis "right now, it would be the mother of all challenges", I don't think it's worth getting anyone's hopes up. Of course he could be deliberately being evasive, nothing hurts current sales as bad as announcing a new product early, as Adam Osborne (http://www.stc-siliconvalley.org/newsletter/2003_04/articles/osborne.htm) discovered. And lets face it, the CFO is going to be the least likely person at Apple to make that kind of gaff. Plus he doesn't actually say it's not going to happen, he just suggests it would be very hard.

But it's great to get the PB rumours rolling again. My TiBook 667 is getting a mite long in the tooth and I'm determined to wait for a PB that doesn't have a garden hose for a FSB.

[Diatribe]

As I said in the other thread, I am not too sure if I would want a first gen. G5 PB, especially not with all the cooling problems they had.
If it is available this year though, it would make a really nice 2nd gen. in March or April 2006 when I would upgrade my rev. c :rolleyes:
The faster they get the first gen out the faster I get my 2nd gen. :D

[bigandy]

i suspect its starting manufacture early so as to produce enough to meet initial demand...

would think the PBG5 would come out near the start of manufacture, cause delays in shipment because of the amout of demand, even more of a panic, then four or five months later, maybe september, october, as schools and universities start back, release the IBG5 and they get swallowed up as well.

cue huge profits matching the jump of this year's financial report!

:)

[spaceballl]

iBook G5 haha that came out of nowhere

[Azerty]

iBook G5 haha that came out of nowhere

Why ? If a low-power G5 fits in a PowerBook, an iBook G5 is technically imaginable.

[Cochrane]

Look at the current lines and both lines sell well. :)

As I understand it, the PowerBook isn't selling well. If both get G5 at the same time, even less people will say "I need a PowerBook because the iBook doesn't have enough power".

[nagromme]

Probably a typo or misunderstanding to do with contracts for the "next iBook" and "next PowerBook"... and someone assuming that both would be called G5. In fact, the PowerBook MIGHT get a G5 (I'm skeptical) but the iBook won't until later.

Imagine someone making the chart who doesn't know any better, and they have info on the old PowerBook G4 and the new PowerBook G5... and on the old iBook G4 and the new iBook G4. Easy to get that last 4 turned into a 5 in your mind maybe.

I'm skeptical of the whole thing, however.

[Azerty]

Digitimes said "In addition, Asustek will also start shipping iBook G5 notebooks to Apple in the second quarter of this year." And then the chart shows the estimated yearly shipment volume for "iBook & iBook G5".

There is no typo. I'm under the impression that you don't want to question an assumed belief. :)

[hob]

sorry, but there is no way they would ever release powerbook g5 and ibook g5 at the same time.

nope nope nope

not listening

Hob

[SubGothius]

...given CFO Peter Oppenheimer' comments about when to expect a PowerBook G5 vis "right now, it would be the mother of all challenges", I don't think it's worth getting anyone's hopes up. Of course he could be deliberately being evasive [...] the CFO is going to be the least likely person at Apple to make that kind of gaff...Paging Dr. Freud, your slip is showing! :D It's kinda like reading Pravda back in Soviet days, when if you knew the "rules" of their censorship and spin and minded those to read between the lines, you could actually distill some semblance of "truth" ;) out of the overtly-released propaganda candy coating.

Adjust the punctuation and quoting continuity slightly, and the question, "When can we expect a PowerBook G5?" gets answered with, "Right now", says Oppenheimer; "It would be the mother of all challenges" -- a challenge they would have had to surmount already, if we are to start expecting PBG5 "Right now". ;) As for, "Don't get your hopes up", read: "Stop bogarting your cash and please meet your immediate PowerBook needs with a G4 now, thus helping us flush our distro channels of old PBG4s to make way for the new G5s". :D

As for same-year updates of both PB and iB to a G5, perhaps Apple figured they could save on development and recoup investment quicker by developing both G5 'Books off a common MoBo, with the iB spec simply "dumbed down" a bit, given the expected slower (read: cheaper) CPU with more modest GPU and port complement. Since the Mac mini and eMac are now covering the "Cheap-Ass Skinflint sector (http://appleturns.com/episode/?id=5130)" with G4s, and the iMac is now serving the mainstream consumer segment with a G5 already, why not let the iBook follow that lead? Hafta wonder if this portends an uber-cheap "MacBook mini" based on the old iBook G4 MoBo (and/or Mac mini MoBo? It sure is tiny...). :D

But seriously, these 'Book G5 reports could just be misprints from ignorance or typos. [cough!] :cool:

[gazmark]

I thought that the G4 was in continued development for laptop use.
Dual and quad cores. If so where will those chips go? more eMacs and Minis?
It makes sense for a PB G5, especially if sales are on the skids.
But an iBook G5 in the same year seems a stretch, but not outside the realms of plausibility. It would pull the range up to a much better standard than it has been for a while, and sell some units. If MacWorld proved anything, its that buisness is king ring now, and a quality top end laptop would really sell.

[nagromme]

A single typo, once made, can then be repeated multiple times. Just by looking and copying, or by copy/paste, or by the involvement of more than one person, one repeating another's mistake. I still see a typo as a possibility. SOME kind of misunderstanding, for sure.

[propropro]

I think... what about 1.8 and 2ghz low power G5 for PB and 1.6 max for the iBook? I'm sure a low power G5 is already designed (remember powertune?)and even sampled and will soon start production stage

[Stella]

Don't believe it. Sounds too good to be true.

As people have already said, probably a typo.

Aren't IBM working on a low powered G5?

[ASP272]

It would definitely be the Powerbook before the iBook. It has to either be a typo (in G4 vs. G5 or in iBook vs. Powerbook). This does lend promise to the fact that the PB G5 is coming, but by the second quarter? Can't be too hopeful of that.

[jjmaximum]

Anybody who doesn't think this could be a typo and has read more than three posts on MacRumors is nuts...I would say 75+% of all posts have some sort of typo in them.

Translation:
Aneebody hoo don't think that cood bee an type-o ant was red moire then tree pastes off McRoomors is nutz...Eye wood said alot of all pastes were sum type-os in there.

[crakly]

Hot damn! Please, please, please let it be true...

The 1st Quarter results from the other day showed great progress for iBooks, iPods, iMacs and eMacs and together with the iPod shuffle and Mac mini I think Apple has the consumer market sewn up.

However the 1st Quarter results also showed that PowerBook and PowerMac sales were down year on year: its time for Apple to concentrate on the pro market again.

[the_mole1314]

Mac mini G5! :D :D

[Jmitch]

I doubt this is the case. I wish I could say I think it's true, but in my gut I just don't think it is. Again, who knows, no one can know for sure, but if I had to guess, in my gut, I don't think we will be seeing any G5 Books for a while. They probably still have lots of engineering to do, to squeeze that powerful G5 into that little package. I wouldn't expect to see them for a while. But who knows? Maybe they will surprise us and release them at WWDC. ;)

[Kagetenshi]

I thought that the G4 was in continued development for laptop use.
Dual and quad cores. If so where will those chips go? more eMacs and Minis?

Most of the G4s don't go into Apple computers. They'd go into embedded systems like most of Freescale's market.

~J

[achmafooma]

Considering that "G5" (like "G4" and "G3") is nothing more than Apple marketing jargon, couldn't a high-end Freescale processor with speed somewhat comparative to IBM's 970 etc. be called a "G5"?

Therefore, if Freescale has a notebook-ready processor in that range waiting in the wings (or, at least, in late development), we could indeed see a PowerBook G5 soon (the iBook part seems a little far-fetched, but then again I said an iMac G5 seemed far-fetched).

Either way, I'm following these developments closely. I'm looking to replace my two primary Macs (Power Mac G4 733mhz and an iBook G3 500mhz) with one high-end 15" PowerBook sometime later this year. My preference is for it to be in the G5 class or, at least, a dual-G4.

[eSnow]

DigiTimes has a terrible track record. Besides, Apple would never introduce PowerBook G5's and iBook G5's at the same time, they'd at least leave a span of 6 month or so to milk early adopters.

[isgoed]

Aren't IBM working on a low powered G5?Out of the top of my head: IBM is working on the 970GX, which is the single core (low power) version of the 970MX (dual core).

And I have also heard that IBM is also working on a completely dedicated low power laptop chip (which might not even based on the 970 at all) for apple.

And where are the rumors about the 975 and 980?

I think it's not a typo but a misenterpretation
Most logical would be that the Powerbook G5 will have a freescale dual core, which is also dubbed G5. So G5 is just a marketing name. Note that the article does not specifically state 970. And the powerbook will get upgraded before the ibook anyway.

/Off topic
The article also states that apple expects to sell 500.000 shuffles a month. Personally I think that apple won't be able to sell that much a year! They are gonna burn their hand badly, because that product will not stand on brand recognition and aggressive pricing. It's lacking any feature! In fact it doesn't even have things you expect as standard. I name: screen, clock, Volume indicator.
Off topic/

[the_mole1314]

The article also states that apple expects to sell 500.000 shuffles a month. Personally I think that apple won't be able to sell that much a year! They are gonna burn their hand badly, because that product will not stand on brand recognition and aggressive pricing. It's lacking any feature! In fact it doesn't even have things you expect as standard. I name: screen, clock, Volume indicator.


Nope, i totally disagree. Most of my school wants one, including me, and I even own an iPod 3G!

[Swinny]

Considering that "G5" (like "G4" and "G3") is nothing more than Apple marketing jargon, couldn't a high-end Freescale processor with speed somewhat comparative to IBM's 970 etc. be called a "G5"?

I wouldn't have thought so - especially when you consider that the current G5 is 64-bit, and this new G4 derived version most likely wouldn't be (as far as I understand it)...would make for all kinds of confusing compatibility issues in the eyes of the consumer.

My guess is that the author has got the wrong end of the stick in their interpretation and assumptions of being told "new laptops with new chips"...2+2=G5 kinda thing...Its most likely that the revisions will indeed have new chips, but Freescale G4s, and not G5s.

[SiliconAddict]

Doubt it....when they say ship they prob mean to a super secret Apple bunker warehouse under Cheyenne Mountain. There is NO….absolutely NO chance in hell of Apple shipping a PowerBook G5 before Jobs demos it at WWDC. Which is in 2nd qt. Hmmmm


Hears hoping its true. My loan for a PowerBook is sitting here collecting dust waiting for Apple.

[jadam]

Amazing!! Can't wait to get a nice new Powerbook G5(Freescale anyone?)

What do you guys think they are going to do though, dual core for the powerbooks and single core for the ibooks? Or single core for both?

[zelmo]

I guess I can see Apple announcing a G5 PowerBook as early as the WWDC, with an expected shipping date in July, which then slips to late August / early September for the majority of orders. I'm more inclined to think we will be see a major (either a G5 or a dcG4) rev at MWSF 2006. I'd love to be wrong about that.
IMO, there's no way that the iBook gets a G5 at the same time as the PowerBook. Apple needs to create some separation between the two lines, and not just with a slightly slower processor and lower hd/GPU specs.
If I'm guiding Apple, I let the PowerBook run the G5 for at least 6-9 months (until rev. B) before I bring the iBook G5 to market.

I think this report is misinformed at best. But what the heck do I know? :)

[Photorun]

I didn't realize Macrumors was posting humor articles. Um, yeah, right... G5 Powerbooks are right around the corner, as they were for the last two years. This sucks... why? Because all your whining bellyaching dellusional G5 owners will chew on this like it's the holy grail. Move along kids, nothing to see here, ain't happening. NEXT!

[jadam]

I guess I can see Apple announcing a G5 PowerBook as early as the WWDC, with an expected shipping date in July, which then slips to late August / early September for the majority of orders. I'm more inclined to think we will be see a major (either a G5 or a dcG4) rev at MWSF 2006. I'd love to be wrong about that.
IMO, there's no way that the iBook gets a G5 at the same time as the PowerBook. Apple needs to create some separation between the two lines, and not just with a slightly slower processor and lower hd/GPU specs.
If I'm guiding Apple, I let the PowerBook run the G5 for at least 6-9 months (until rev. B) before I bring the iBook G5 to market.

I think this report is misinformed at best. But what the heck do I know? :)


Why wouldnt they? The ibook sells way more then the powerbooks do, look at how many they are expected to produce, 1.3-1.5million ibooks, and around 600k powerbooks. As far as money goes, they make just as much if not more money with ibook G5s.

[eSnow]

Why wouldnt they? The ibook sells way more then the powerbooks do, look at how many they are expected to produce, 1.3-1.5million ibooks, and around 600k powerbooks. As far as money goes, they make just as much if not more money with ibook G5s.

Sure, and while you are at it, why not upgrade the Mac Mini to G5 as well?

Apple makes as much money on one Powerbook sale as on two iBooks, I'd recon. It is basic marketing to upgrade the ailing pro line first and the well-selling consumer line second.

[freddiecable]

there is no way they will release G5 PB AND iBook at the same time!

if they release a 1.8 ghz G5 powerbook we will see a 1.5 Ghz G4 iBook initially.

[jadam]

There is no way they are going to release a $499 mac!!

There is no way they are going to release a $99 ipod!!

There is no way they are going to release a G5 iMac!!!


**** happens people. G5 ibook/G5 Powerbook here I come!



Plus, these probablly wont be running on the 970 series processors, most likely they will be running on the new freescale e600 cores and Apple will be calling them G5s. Going by this, there is no reason to deny that apple wont put in a MPC8641 on both the powerbook and ibook. Most likely, the MPC8641 = G5 mobile

[i_am_a_cow]

Some people are confused here. quarter 2 = fiscal quarter 2 ... fiscal quarter 2 is not june/july, it's now. Fiscal quarter 3 starts in a few months. If they release a new powerbook, it won't be shipping for like 2 months, but I'd still buy one.

Also, don't you realize that it's been 2 years since the G5 came out? The powerbook is coming soon. Hopefully it won't be too buggy.

[swissmann]

There's no way they will move the ibook to a G5: they must be putting every effort into a PB G5, and would bemuch less concerned about the ibook. There is HUGE pent up demand for a much faster PB: when they get a G5 out of the door, the profits will soar again, and they know it.

I agree. No way will Apple release a G5 iBook the same time as a Powerbook. Unless they were going to a G5 only lineup which would put the G4 Mac mini where? Besides I don't think we would see G5 Powerbooks announced at any small event. My guess is announced in June and shipping in September.

[Chaszmyr]

Mac mini G5! :D :D

I heard from a reliable source that revision B of the Mac mini will be a 2ghz G5 and will be announced on January 25th! :eek:
Why would they do this, you ask? Because on the same day they will release the PowerBook G5, iBook G5, and eMac G5... as well as the PowerMac G6! :p

[mrgreen4242]

There is no way they are going to release a $499 mac!!

There is no way they are going to release a $99 ipod!!

There is no way they are going to release a G5 iMac!!!


**** happens people. G5 ibook/G5 Powerbook here I come!



Plus, these probablly wont be running on the 970 series processors, most likely they will be running on the new freescale e600 cores and Apple will be calling them G5s. Going by this, there is no reason to deny that apple wont put in a MPC8641 on both the powerbook and ibook. Most likely, the MPC8641 = G5 mobile

Thats what I was gonna say... Apple may take a cue from Intel and market a revamp version of an older chip as a mobile version of a newer one... (The Pentium4M is a redesigned and improved P3). If you look at how well that worked (P4M laptops are very powerful machines and sell very well, and are now being found in desktop machines, especially small footprint, low power/noise ones), Apple has a great oppertunity to have a G5-M in the PB and iBook, then next year update the mini to a G5-M as well, while keeping the 970 G5 in the other desktop machines.

Seems perfectly plausable marketing to me...

Rob

[Chip NoVaMac]

I agree. No way will Apple release a G5 iBook the same time as a Powerbook. Unless they were going to a G5 only lineup which would put the G4 Mac mini where? Besides I don't think we would see G5 Powerbooks announced at any small event. My guess is announced in June and shipping in September.

Actually with the heat issues that have been mentioned about the G5 in a notebook, could it be that there will be two lines for a short time? A G4 series that is thinner, and a G5 series that are a bit thicker?

Remember, never say never with Apple. Just we have found out this week. :)

[Chip NoVaMac]

WoW too many threads on the same topic:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=104959 :)

Well the one you pointed out was first. Maybe they could combine both.

[macridah]

drool .... what i've been waiting for long time. March is usually when apple announces something new or an upgrade. I am also hoping for a release date for 10.4 tiger.

[SiliconAddict]

Amazing!! Can't wait to get a nice new Powerbook G5(Freescale anyone?)

What do you guys think they are going to do though, dual core for the powerbooks and single core for the ibooks? Or single core for both?


Single for both. I highly doubt that they are going to start off dual core. Its still a possibility, stranger things have happened, but I doubt it.

[Frobozz]

This seems like a typo to me. I'm not sure how an iBook would be produced in almost 2-to-1 ratios against the PowerBook. That is, if this is the whole story. There could be another contractor to complete the remaining PowerBook orders.

What do you guys think? I'm not so sure about this info, but it certainly doesn't seem like it was intentionally forged.

[Lord Blackadder]

Oh my GOD! It's.....It's....another Powerbook G5 thread!!!!! They're unstoppable!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

RUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNN!!!!!!




:rolleyes:

[Frobozz]

Single for both. I highly doubt that they are going to start off dual core. Its still a possibility, stranger things have happened, but I doubt it.

I would think they'd start with dual core, actually. Dual core chips will spread the heat out, making it easier to dissipate. Also, the dual core chips should be able to vary their clock speed on a per-cpu basis. Normally I would say the increased performance of a dual core would be unneeded in a laptop, but I don't think that would be the focus of said update. I think it would be for their ability to vary performance and power drain better.

[Frobozz]

It's lacking any feature! In fact it doesn't even have things you expect as standard. I name: screen, clock, Volume indicator.
Off topic/

Why on earth do you need a visual representation of your audio level in a $99 device? Personally, I think apple could EASILY sell 500,000 a month. These things will fly off the shelves.

[SiliconAddict]

I agree. No way will Apple release a G5 iBook the same time as a Powerbook. Unless they were going to a G5 only lineup which would put the G4 Mac mini where? Besides I don't think we would see G5 Powerbooks announced at any small event. My guess is announced in June and shipping in September.

Ditto. I call BS on a G5 iBook. I think for the foreseeable future Apple is going to keep that line of laptops on the G4. If for no other reason the that they are cheaper chips and will allow Apple to have a cheap entry level laptop. Even if Apple tweaks OS X for the G5 its still, for the foreseeable future, going to run on a G4. So at least for the low end iBook there is no rush to get a G5 in the thing. The biggest push is going to be core image compatibility which the current Radeon 9200 may or may not cut it. (I'm betting it will.)

[silvergunuk]

Macworld has just passed and were already hyping up the WWDC. You have to love the Apple Community.

Anyone else noticed that Steve Jobs gave the date of 24th of June while demoing iLife...WWDC date perhaps?

[Photorun]

**** happens people. G5 ibook/G5 Powerbook here I come!

Proof there's one born every minute. Kinda like the G5 Powerbook rumors are.

I'm too lazy, but go do a search in the past archives of similar G5 in a laptop rumors, you'll find no less than a half a dozen. Keep dreaming, this isn't the Macfacts: Forums, it's the MacRUMORS forums.

[Photorun]

Oh my GOD! It's.....It's....another Powerbook G5 thread!!!!! They're unstoppable!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
RUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNN!!!!!!
:rolleyes:

LMAO!!! I'm glad to see some people are actually not naive, seeing through this BS and GETTING it.

[Electric Monk]

To avoid the (by now) typical Motorola/Freescale scaling problems why not release Rev A. of the G5-M (e600) 'books as single cores in both with the Powerbook of course having a better GPU and a decent lead on CPU clock plus all the other usual advantages. (A switch to a 13.3" widescreen also for the 12" PB would be nice too.)

Then with Rev B the PB shifts over to dual core no clock speed change while the iBooks bump up to match them in clock speed albeit with single cores.

Rev. C can then boost clock speeds equally on both.

This way it avoids waiting for Freescale to increase the original top clock speed for the maximum possible time because Rev. B involves no new top clock speed. This gives Freescale 12-18 months instead of 6-9 months to increase the clock speed of the e600.

And of course this means lots of time for the e700 (64 bit e600) to be developed for the G6-M :)

[Chaszmyr]

According to this document, Apple is expecting to sell more than twice as many iBooks as PowerBooks... Do they do that now?
And only 100,000 Mac minis per month? I expect them to sell more than that.

[mrjamin]

As will smith once said:

HHAAAATCHOOO!

SORRY, i'm alergic to ************

[Metatron]

I don't understand why people keep saying that Apple will never release a G5 in the Powerbook and iBook and the same time. Why Not?

The Damn G4 is old as hell, and no one is considering the fact that tiger....unless some one knows for sure the opposite, will be the last 32 OS from apple. They have slowly changed the OS in each .X upgrade to be more 64 bit efficenent.

My personal beleif is that they will release a very low clocked G5 in the ibook so that people who get can upgrade to OS XI in 2006. Apple can not afford to be writting apps for 32 and 64 bit chips. When it makes the switch to true 64bit OS, you will get about 6 more months of support for 32bit apps. And then they are done.

January of 06, there will not be any 32bit chips being built into any Apple products.

I asure you though, Apple would have loved to put a G5 in the Powerbook a year ago and let the iBook have the G4 and milk that sob for a while like they did with the G4 Powerbook and the IceBook. Unfortunatly the time it has taken to put a G5 in the PBook cancelled those plans.

This is not how it was 5 years ago when we has to wait 2 years after the G4 Powermac for a G4 to be put in a Pbook. It might have taken 2 years then, but people expect better technology to speed things along with this transition to the G5. Unfortunatly us and Apple thought wrong, so to stay strong in the market, apple has to co release the things at WWDC. The iBook will have the same processor as the iMac at the time with a underpowered bus speed.

You will see.

[iostream.h]

It sounds reasonable, the 970GX is meant to ship in bulk in Q2

[displaced]

/Off topic
It's lacking any feature! In fact it doesn't even have things you expect as standard. I name: screen, clock, Volume indicator.
Off topic/


/also-offtopic

Screen:
Apparently from those who've used it, it works pretty well regardless. Remains to be seen how it goes down with the masses though.

Clock:
Contributes zero functionality. It wouldn't play music any better if it had one.

Volume indicator:
No need for one. Most people's heads have two built-in volume indicators, one on each side. Listening to the music tell you how loud it is.

/back on topic

This kinda seems like it could well be a typo. But I can't see the current 'books staying as they are for too long. If MacWorld had brought updates, then simple speed revs. wouldn't have surprised me. But MW's been and gone, and no new 'books. I think the next update will be a 'proper' update, although I really can't decide which is most likely: A next-gen Freescale G4, or a low-power G5. Either way, I think we'll see quite a jump from current performance.

[Kagetenshi]

According to this document, Apple is expecting to sell more than twice as many iBooks as PowerBooks... Do they do that now?
And only 100,000 Mac minis per month? I expect them to sell more than that.

You expect Mac Mini sales to amount to over a quarter of all Mac sales?

The Damn G4 is old as hell, and no one is considering the fact that tiger....unless some one knows for sure the opposite, will be the last 32 OS from apple. They have slowly changed the OS in each .X upgrade to be more 64 bit efficenent.

Apple will stick with a 32-bit OS until L1 cache gets big enough that it no longer matters that the pointers double in size for a 64-bit computer. 64 bit applications are always inferior to otherwise-identical 32-bit apps unless the app needs to address more than two gigabytes of RAM or many values larger than 32 bits. Few applications meet these criteria.

~J

[displaced]

I don't understand why people keep saying that Apple will never release a G5 in the Powerbook and iBook and the same time. Why Not?

The Damn G4 is old as hell, and no one is considering the fact that tiger....unless some one knows for sure the opposite, will be the last 32 OS from apple. They have slowly changed the OS in each .X upgrade to be more 64 bit efficenent.

... but they haven't removed any 32-bit capability either. There's nothing magical about 64-bitness. Your average day-to-day use of the Mac will gain absolutely nothing from 64-bit code. A certain subset of applications will benefit greatly, and the OS certainly needs to be 64-bit to provide full services to those apps that need it. But by and large, the OS gains nothing from removing 32-bit capability.

Do not be confused by the PC universe's switch from 16- to 32-bit. It just so happened that that jump brought with it a whole host of technologies -- pre-emptive multitasking, virtual addressing, and virtualisation of a bunch of other stuff that let PCs shed their late-1970's heritage. The Mac's already done that when it moved away from the 68000-series processors.

My personal beleif is that they will release a very low clocked G5 in the ibook so that people who get can upgrade to OS XI in 2006.

A very low-clocked G5 would be slower than today's G4's. It would still perform better overall due to architecture improvements, but that's got little to do with the core of the CPU design. I believe the G4's are getting improved supporting systems -- better bus designs, higer bandwith, etc.

Apple can not afford to be writting apps for 32 and 64 bit chips. When it makes the switch to true 64bit OS, you will get about 6 more months of support for 32bit apps. And then they are done.

Sorry, but that's nonsense. A 'true 64bit OS' (or rather, 64-bit *exclusive* OS) will not arrive any time even vaguely soon. Withdrawing support for 32-bit apps would instantly break every single application already in existence. It would also negate one of the G5's key benefits -- it runs 32-bit code without any performance loss compared to 64-bit code.

Think of it this way: take a game that only uses 2D graphics. It does not need hardware that can do 3D acceleration. You go out and buy a graphics card with 3D acceleration. But your game doesn't need 3D. However, this new card also has excellent 2D support, so it'll still run your game quicker.

But what if the driver software would only support 3D? Sure, programs that need it would run fantastically quick. But your current game, which would work so well with that card, won't run because some developer decided 2D wasn't worth supporting.

January of 06, there will not be any 32bit chips being built into any Apple products.

You may be correct. But EVERY SINGLE G5 is capable of running 32-bit code, and very quickly too. We'll see an increase in software that will utilize the 64-bit features of the CPU, and probably even a handful of 64-bit only versions of software. But 32-bit is not dead, and will not die for a while.

[abhishekit]

It looks more like a typo to me too. Apple' Q2 2005 is already on. It would post the earings of Q2 2005 on 13-Apr-05. So that gives what, 3 months to introduce G5 pbs AND iBooks. Mother of all challenges... :rolleyes:

Not happening in Q2 atleast..

[Pringolian]

I have said this before on the countless PowerBook G5 rumour forums:

* The gap between the iBook and the PowerBook is scarily close...
* The PowerBook G4 was not updated before Xmas the same as the iBook
* Apple have been working on PBG5 for a long time
* 2 Years to develop G4 PowerBook (It has been 2 years since G5 PMac)
* PowerMac/PowerBook sales are increasingly getting lower and lower (way
too low!)
* The consumer line up is now sealed with the Mac Mini/iMac G5

This all adds up to Apple reclaiming the pro market with:
Dual 3Ghz PowerMacs
PowerBook G5
the release of Tiger 10.4 adds to this

I think WWDC could be the launch pad, but my hunch still says sooner. Apple have the knack for making you think all hope is lost and then releasing something truely amazing. It's ashame they never ship the damn things on time

;)

[wdlove]

[QUOTE=Macrumors
An accompanying chart shows again that Asustek is to delivery iBook G5s in 2005 Q2 (quantity 100,000 to 125,000 per month across both iBook model lines), and also that Quanta Computer is to deliver PowerBook G5s (quantity 30,000 to 50,000 per month) by the same quarter (2005 Q2).
[/QUOTE]

When I first saw this, had to stop and think, this isn't April 1st. Then to look at the amount of planned shipments per month seems off. The iBook G5 will be very popular. Just can't imagine that Apple wouldn't sell at least double the amount listed for the PowerBook

[SiliconAddict]

I don't understand why people keep saying that Apple will never release a G5 in the Powerbook and iBook and the same time. Why Not?


Reason?

iBook = All about value.

PowerBook = All about performance...or it would if it didn't have such a ****y CPU.


The only reason to move both at the same time to a G5 would be if Apple wanted to optimize their next version of OS X for the G5. (Note I didn't say 64-bitness but G5.) But if that was the case why release a Mac Mini with a G4 CPU if they are trying to move all their currently selling systems to a G5 platform? I highly doubt that if Apple had the notion to move their low-end laptop line to a G5 that they wouldn't move EVERYING to a G5 and get it over with.

[3Memos]

A 1.5Ghz G4 runs at the same performance level and speed as that of a 1.5Ghz G5. The G5 is just a 64-bit version of the G4, which some extra registers and what not?

[KindredMAC]

...and rumors have been wrong before!

Why in God's green earth would they bring the iBook and PowerBook to G5's at the same time? Cost wise, it's suicide!

PB will probably be announced at the WWDC with shipping starting in August/September.

iBooks won't see a G5 until April 2006. The G4 iBooks debuted in April 2003. There seems to be a major update to the iBooks every 2 to 3 years. Besides, they will wait until the G5 is dirt cheap before they put it in the iBook. My personal hope is that Apple puts a single iBook model in the $699 range to totally dominate the Education and "Cheap-Scape" market and then have the high-end iBook top off at $1299. Now that would cement the iBook's position as the juggernaut that it really is.

I wonder if Apple sees the Powerbooks as a unnecessary product now? Think about it, we had the iMac G5 and Mac mini come out in the past 6 months. Some pretty powerful Macs are getting more and more mobile. Before I get some people jumping down my throat, yes I know the iMac has some heft to it, but think about what you get in that neat little package...a 17 or 20" Flat panel display and a G5 processor with a Burner of some sorts.

Hell, look at the article on Spymac.com about the advent of Mac/Automobile customization that they are seeing. A Mac mini can fit into the dashboard of a car! And how many people out there already have their little LCD screens that pop out of the dash? Connect that to the Mac mini with bluetooth and Airport Extreme and you can drive up to parking lot of a Starbuck's and surf the web through your wireless keyboard and mouse. I wouldn't even doubt if some accessory company out there is already thinking of a way to use a pre-existing iBook keyboard and track pad and put it in one unit that is Bluetooth capable for a car!

Whoops... got of the iBook/PB subject. Sorry about that!

[pilotgi]

I'm too lazy to look up the articles, but I'm pretty sure that the Freescale processors won't be available till later in '05. Like fall for the single core and end of the year for dual core. So if these laptops really are just around the corner, it's going to have to be G5's.

I think Apple's had plenty of time to work out the design for a G5 PB but the mention of the iBook is really surprising. And would a G5 iBook still be $999?

That would be something! And I could just by a new iBook instead of shelling out $200 for Tiger and iLife 05.

[jadam]

I'm too lazy to look up the articles, but I'm pretty sure that the Freescale processors won't be available till later in '05. Like fall for the single core and end of the year for dual core. So if these laptops really are just around the corner, it's going to have to be G5's.

I think Apple's had plenty of time to work out the design for a G5 PB but the mention of the iBook is really surprising. And would a G5 iBook still be $999?

That would be something! And I could just by a new iBook instead of shelling out $200 for Tiger and iLife 05.


nope, Q2 2005 for the MPC8641

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/28/freescale_g4_7448/

[pinto32]

IMO, Tiger will be released June 2005, followed by 10.5 in June 2007, follow by 10.64 (yep, nice little way to allude to the 64-bit OS) in June 2009.

With two years of development time already behind the combind efforts of Apple and IBM (they are obviously giving Apple every bit of help they can to get the G5 into as many machines as possible), I am sure that a Powerbook G5 will be released by the end of the summer of 2005. One thing I am certain of is, unlike thier usual style, they will wait until they already have them rolling off the lines to release it (we saw how thier sales suffered because of the iMac G5 delay...they wont repeat that mistake again...plus they have the Mini Mac and iBook still around to use up any leftover G4s that they have bulk-ordered).

I would expect an iBook G5 around June 2006. The only way it would be sooner is if Apple stood to make more profit by using the G5 over the G4 (not because of increased sales, but because of lower production costs).

The eMac G5 will probably be announced around March 2005....(no particular reason, other than thats what "the voices" told me...that, and it is the beginning of the acedemic buying season)...

The mini Mac is probably the hardest to predict, since it is simply a HUGE experiment...

[24C]

SiliconAddict wrote

"iBook = All about value.

PowerBook = All about performance..."snip

Tend too agree with this, and find it strange that Apple CFO & etc, keep saying thermal issues/smokescreens etc in a G5 laptop are creating delays etc...then we get this report about G5's in iBooks & PowerBooks! WOW

What happened about the speed ramped PowerBooks in the mill...is this just a ploy to use up stock, I mean they hardly sold PowerBooks this last quarter...the iBooks trashed them. Why, IMO the speed differential is not in place, the iBooks represent better value and are also more durable.

I hope this report is accurate and that liquid cooling system that was touted has come to fruition. Great if it happens soon, but wouldn't you feel for these recent Powerbook G4 purchasers if it did :-)

[matttichenor]

Hafta wonder if this portends an uber-cheap "MacBook mini" based on the old iBook G4 MoBo (and/or Mac mini MoBo? It sure is tiny...). :D



Well put, on all fronts, I totally agree with what SubGothias says about Oppenheimer's quote, could mean many things... but most importantly, lets sell some G4 powerbooks first, then surprise with a nice juicy G5... the company has been doing amazing things for the past 2 years or so, why not a G5 powerbook...

And as for the super tiny macbook mini, maybe they finally have a nice little 7 or 8 inch tablet with a speedy G4 chip built in.. no keyboard, no mouse no optical drive, just a stylus and tones of wireless capabilities to control other devices.. Airtunes, Remote Desktop... control your Mac Mini with a Mac Book Mini, maybe thats what "Asteroid" is... remember, Schiller said months ago that they have some cool products that will work nicely controlling Airtunes wirelessly... didn't see anything like that at Macworld.


Predicition... Asteroid is the iTab : )

m

[Jmitch]

Okay guys. I really doubt Apple will release G5 notebooks before Tiger comes out officially. By the way when is Tiger supossed to come? Anyone have any ideas?

[dongmin]

nope, Q2 2005 for the MPC8641

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/28/freescale_g4_7448/the article you cited say the mpc8641 will sample in the second half of 2005; no shipping date is given (but i'm guessing at least a few months before shipping in quantity).

Did anyone else find shocking the total volume of computers this report is suggesting? Apple did 1.05 million computers in the Xmas quarter. This report lays the claim for:

350,000 ibooks a quarter
120,000 powerbooks a quarter
300,000 mac minis a quarter

So adding the iMacs and PowerMacs (around 623,000 total for the last quarter), Apple will ship 1.3 million units a quarter--5.2 million a year. Stunning.

[Spock]

Well I have a PIC wont last long Apple Legal will pull it

[Apple!Freak]

Well I have a PIC wont last long Apple Legal will pull it

Either that pic is distorted or the new PB will be a super rugged laptop. :p

[Scratchbc]

Why would that pic get taken down?

its just a distorted ibook.

is this some joke I'm not getting :confused:

[jadam]

Why would that pic get taken down?

its just a distorted ibook.

is this some joke I'm not getting :confused:


its melted from all the heat.

[Rootman]

Very cool design, with an all-terrain rubber case, looks like.

[zelmo]

I particularly like the addition of those channels in the bottom to whisk away any excess heat...Ives is really cookin' now.

[Mord]

i recon this is spot on, IBM has developed a new technique that uses a drop of water (very pure water) to focus the laser used for etching the cpu's, there was an article on it in new scientist apparently this got them 90% of the way to perfecting the 65nm process so all looks good for a sub 20W 2GHz g5 powerbook and a 1.6GHz ibook, and of cource powermac updates to 3GHz

once apple can make a mac g5 they will make a mac g5, the emac is the only exception as it's not on the priority list, g5's are cheaper than g4's at much higher clock speeds, if an ibook g5 came out at the same time unless they are matched specs i'm still going to get a powerbook as it will be my uni computer and it needs to last.

[deputy_doofy]

I would have thought we would be waiting at least a year from the PB going G5 before the iBook follows. The iBook only went G4 in late 2003 I think. (A long time after the PB.)

You know, I can't help but wonder if that was partly a marketing move. At the time, new G3's were really catching up. They were practically at the same MHz/GHz rating and there was speculation of a 200MHz FSB. If that had happened, that would have been a marketing nightmare against the G4 and the "Power" line.

1.0GHz G3 @ 200Mhz
1.0GHz G4 @ 167MHz


Whereas, if they move the PB and iB to the G5 line, they could do:
iBook: 1.6GHz G5 @ 400MHz FSB
PBook: 1.8GHz G5 @ 600-900 MHz FSB

Of course, what do I know? I'm just a Doofy™.

[maya]

Remember that this dates are shipping dates not release dates. Apple is learning from its past shipping shortages and is ramping up supply.

That given the PowerBook G5 will be released at WWDC'05 and the iBook G5 will be released at MacWorld in September '05 as the iMac G5 was.


This would mean that the PowerBook G5 will be released at 1.8 and 2.0 GHz and the iBook G5 will be released at 1.6GHz. There is a gap as there is one now.

Apple is focusing on the educational market and the Mac mini, eMac and iBook all fall in that line.

Apples fiscal Q is different from a year Q for product release. Why are people getting this mistaken. Q1 = Jan - Mar, Q2 = Apr - Jun, Q3 = Jul - Sep, Q4 = Oct - Dec.

It is quite possible that Apple knows that the demand for a mobile G5 and thus shipping supply early. The iBook is going to wait for a good 2-3 months before release announcement at MacWorld and have ample supply for Christmas 2005. :)

IBM has been developing the GX low power G5 line so why is this a surprise and the GX is being shipped in mass quantity in Q2 2005. :)

The Mac mini is basically an iBook, so once the iBook goes G5 there is not much to do in converting the mini to a G5. :)

Mac mini = mobile desktop. :)

At present the iBook out sell the PowerBooks anyhow and this was due to the fact that the PowerBooks have not been updated. <--- not brain surgery to figure this out. :)

This only leave the whole desktop line moving to dual core, since the speed gaps are way too close once the notebooks go G5. As always Apple will find ways to cripple the iBook G5 when compared to PowerBook G5 so why are people kicking a storm in regards to it. :)

Remember Apple has said any things in the past as many have noted yet those remarks are smoke and mirrors. Remember the G5 is not suitable for an iMac as stated at WWDC '04 and then in September '04 we have an iMac G5. Did they work a miracle in a few months, NO that was stated since Apple was stocking up and yet they still miss predicted and there was a long waiting period. :p

No more G4 here people, Tiger is tooted as taking a lot of advantage of the G5 processor and the G4 has been here way too long IMHO.

Some say will people need 8Gigs of ram, remember what people working in the industry have stated in the past. All those remarks and statements only look till the tip of ones nose not beyond.

This is the year of HD and its coming to consumers along with 64-bit chips. Its the applications that have the requirement for a lot of memory and as long as those applications exist and have a demand for the 8Gigs of memory will be used. :)

2Gig SO-DIMM ram modules already exist, what next in the next 6 months 4Gig modules. That would mean 2 ram slots in a PowerBook and iBook G5 2 x 4Gig SO-DIMM = 8Gigs :eek: <--- very possible.

You can buy 1Gig SO-DIMM for under 200 USD in six months that will be under 100 USD and 2Gigs will be had for about 200 USD with 4Gig SO-DIMM costing well lets not go there. :)

[AliensAreFuzzy]

I really hope they release the G5 Powerbooks soon. I want to get a rev. B this fall if possible

[maya]

This brings up another questions:

Why did Apple release a Mac mini at 1.25 - 1.42Ghz, does this means a Mac mini G5 will be released at MWSF '06. :)

The same G5 processor speed of 1.6GHz that was released @ WWDC '03 can now be had in a 499 computer at MWSF "06. <--- And people were saying what again. ;) :)

[maya]

I really hope they release the G5 Powerbooks soon. I want to get a rev. B this fall if possible

A rev B PowerBook G5 will not be released in fall, however a better chance is MWSF '06. :)


Wow we are already looking a year in advance.
:p

[Rocketman]

This seems like a typo to me. I'm not sure how an iBook would be produced in almost 2-to-1 ratios against the PowerBook. That is, if this is the whole story. There could be another contractor to complete the remaining PowerBook orders.

What do you guys think? I'm not so sure about this info, but it certainly doesn't seem like it was intentionally forged.

I was an early adopter of Ti PB as a G4-400 owner. I am waiting as long as it takes to buy a G5 PB. I recenty became impatient as my PB has damage from excessive use so I purchased a second Ti-G4-400, to maintain 100% compatibility while I wait for the PB G5.

Today's news is the first 3rd party (ie not an anonymous rumour) hard news of a PB G5 being imminent. I believe them. I share the skepticism of those folks questioning a iBook G5, but remember, iBooks have alot of cripples (FSB,videocard) to justify the price discrepencey between the iBook and the PowerBook.

Recently the Mac Mini ADDED purchases to our list, not displaced any. We will be adding one as a full-time server, one as a dedicated media center.

And now iPod Shuffles (cheaters) will be treated as accessory purchases (like a mouse) and given one to a person in our group.

Rocketman

[ZildjianKX]

First thing I literally said at macworld when I saw the mac mini was, "Apple is unloading their G4 processor stock so they can go to G5 on the powerbooks"...

[jwhitnah]

Given the negative spin on any 'book G5 during the last conference call, this sounds improbable. I would buy one in a heartbeat though. ;)

[jwhitnah]

First thing I literally said at macworld when I saw the mac mini was, "Apple is unloading their G4 processor stock so they can go to G5 on the powerbooks"...
Is the mini G4 chip the same as the one in the powerbook G4?

[Transic]

*

[maya]

In October [2004], Peter Oppenheimer, Apple’s CFO, reiterated Apple’s commitment to providing a premium product. “To date, we have chosen not to compete in the sub-$800 desktop market,” he said.

That really makes me question just how much we can trust what he says about future products.

Apple also does not confirm or deny any future product announcements hardware or software related. ;) :)

Apple policy, get people sidetracked from what we have planned. ;) :)

[gordo]

I think a lot of people her have missed the point - go back and read the article. It never mentions the Powerbook at all. The authors then add it into a table with apparently no data to back it up, thats all.

What you have here is some PC nerd getting confused after talking about imacs/ipods/imac mini and calling the notebook product an ibook rather than powerbook.

The roadmap is probably as follows:

3GHZ G5 Powermac - April/May - this is not big news, its a year late so not one to shout about at WWDC

Tiger - they will want this out before WWDC, so everyone can play with it there, either that or they ship it on Day1 of WWDC

So that leaves the big WWDC announcement open for the G5 powerbook

What of the iBook? Well maybe once the G4 PB stocks start to run low ahead of G5 we'll get a bump, again in April/May, to offer better tiger compatibility

Could the 12" powerbook be dropped? you bet it could, thats is the hard one to engineer as a G5 at this moment. If you've got the iBook at the similar performance levels then you don't need the PB12 it as long as you spec the iBook up a little.

[ClimbingTheLog]

In October [2004], Peter Oppenheimer, Apple’s CFO, reiterated Apple’s commitment to providing a premium product. “To date, we have chosen not to compete in the sub-$800 desktop market,” he said.

That really makes me question just how much we can trust what he says about future products.

You have to learn to read between the lines.

He says, “To date, we have chosen not to compete in the sub-$800 desktop market,” not "To date we have chosen not to build computers out of llama parts."

That means, "in the future we will chose to compete in the sub-$800 desktop market."

He says the Powerbook G5 is "the mother of all challenges."

That means, "We're Apple, we've kicked this thing's ass."

[Transic]

*

[3Memos]

Could the 12" powerbook be dropped? you bet it could, thats is the hard one to engineer as a G5 at this moment. If you've got the iBook at the similar performance levels then you don't need the PB12 it as long as you spec the iBook up a little.

Let's hope not. I like the small size of the 12". And Apple has already invested significant sums of money to design the form factor. It would be interesting how they plan to cool down a G5 in a laptop? Perhaps radiant cooling from the display?

[3Memos]

Given the negative spin on any 'book G5 during the last conference call, this sounds improbable. I would buy one in a heartbeat though. ;)

They have every interest to diffuse speculation that a G5 is on the way in fear it will kill present PB sales due to customer expectation.

[Pringolian]

I think the PowerBook G5 along with Tiger is going to be one of the most significant releases in recent Apple history. Similar to that of the original PowerMac G5 that appeared out of nowhere and tempted some of the PC Market to get on over to Apple (it worked for me at the time - lol) :p

I think they need a smaller version of the PBG5, I still favour the original rumours of a 13.4" Widescreen instead of scrapping it altogether

I'd like to see it sooner but I think the PowerBook G5 needs a big launch pad/Introduction like WWDC 05 and hopefully shipping pretty much straight away!

WWDC 'One more Thing' anybody

Wouldn't this be exactly 2 years?

[3Memos]

Wouldn't this be exactly 2 years?

It would seem to be in line with the introduction of the G4 PowerBooks vs that of the G4 Towers.

[pigwin32]

Plus, these probablly wont be running on the 970 series processors, most likely they will be running on the new freescale e600 cores and Apple will be calling them G5s. Going by this, there is no reason to deny that apple wont put in a MPC8641 on both the powerbook and ibook. Most likely, the MPC8641 = G5 mobile
As was pointed out in a previous post, from this link (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/28/freescale_g4_7448/), the MPC8641 won't be *sampling* until the second half of 2005. The report also indicates the MPC7448 won't be sampling until the first half of 2005. I'm not sure how long after sampling it takes to ramp up to full production but I would expect a PB speed bump to be based on the 7448.

Perhaps of more interest is the Reg's 13 December report (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12/13/ibm_strained_silicon/) on IBM boosting chip speed by 24% using a new process: "IBM will ship a variety of 90nm Power and PowerPC chips using the technique in the H1 2005". This could certainly indicate the PB G5 isn't as far off as we might think. A 25% increase in chip speed could translate into cooler G5's allowing the beast to be shoehorned into the PB. Maybe it is time to start feeling more optimistic.

And it wouldn't be out of order to ship the top of the iBook range with a G5 while the rest remained G4-based. Actually, I'm grasping at straws but hey, at least I'll never look as foolish as Bill Palmer (http://www.billpalmer.net/), he's wearing the entire omelette (need a G5 PB to cook that on Bill?).

[aswitcher]

G5 PB this year for sure...but I will be suprised its as thin as the G4.

G5 iBook...makes sense if they have enough G5 chips and they can address tghe heat issues. I dont see it though this year...

I guess we wait and see if that website gets taken down...

[TheSith]

Hmm...

Things to run by you guys..

We didn't see an update in the Powerbook line at MWSF - too crappy some say. The powerbook line is SUPPOSEDLY being sold out to prepare for *something.*

What is this something?

If they release the supposed 1.67GHZ G4 at the end of Jan/begin of Feb, and then release a PB G5 - isn't that pretty fast timing? What do you guys think? When is WWDC btw?

I am a PC user now but have used Macs in the past. I am waiting, impatiently, to get a Powerbook (been waiting since Dec. 04). Am wondering what you guys think? Am a bit confused about this WHOLE matter..

Dual G4, 1.5GHZ G4, G5 - can someone explain to me what the difference is, speed-wise? I have never understood Mac speeds (I am a mac noob) so Dual-whatever does not make sense to me!

[seans9]

Hmm...

Things to run by you guys..

We didn't see an update in the Powerbook line at MWSF - too crappy some say. The powerbook line is SUPPOSEDLY being sold out to prepare for *something.*

What is this something?

If they release the supposed 1.67GHZ G4 at the end of Jan/begin of Feb, and then release a PB G5 - isn't that pretty fast timing? What do you guys think? When is WWDC btw?

I am a PC user now but have used Macs in the past. I am waiting, impatiently, to get a Powerbook (been waiting since Dec. 04). Am wondering what you guys think? Am a bit confused about this WHOLE matter..

Dual G4, 1.5GHZ G4, G5 - can someone explain to me what the difference is, speed-wise? I have never understood Mac speeds (I am a mac noob) so Dual-whatever does not make sense to me!

yea same here. im sick of PC's and ive been waiting since december 04 to switch - i think the best idea is waiting for the G5. but seriously, whats the main difference in the G5 and G4, obviously the G5 is better, but why?

Do you see G4 PB prices dropping significantly ($600 or so)?

[rdowns]

sorry, but there is no way they would ever release powerbook g5 and ibook g5 at the same time.

nope nope nope

not listening

Hob

Maybe you should. I think Apple has been moving away from the assisine, we can't build this or it will eat into demand on that philosophy. Just recently, we have an 8x drive in the eMac before any other system.

Of course, Apple would never release a G5 iMac before putting one in their PowerBook. The PB snobs are still smarting over that one.

Apple releasing a $499 Mac, still boggles my mind.

I think Apple is finally on a, we need to grow market share kick and a G5 iBook could be released very shortly after or at the same time as the PB. Imagine Jobs at a keynote announcing the all 64-bit notebook lineup.

[panphage]

Haven't had time to read the entire thread, but I just read a register report (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/01/22/ibm_claims_massive_power_cut/) that IBM states the 970FX (90nm) part consumes 12.3W @ 1.4Ghz. The FX part also has the "PowerTune" technology for speed throttling. As a point of comparison, a Freescale MPC7447 @ 1.0Ghz consumes 7.5W.

So clearly, the 970 isn't the problem. It's the rest of the G5 architecture (that blasted controller!)

[aesth3tic]

Hmm...

Things to run by you guys..

We didn't see an update in the Powerbook line at MWSF - too crappy some say. The powerbook line is SUPPOSEDLY being sold out to prepare for *something.*

What is this something?

If they release the supposed 1.67GHZ G4 at the end of Jan/begin of Feb, and then release a PB G5 - isn't that pretty fast timing? What do you guys think? When is WWDC btw?

I am a PC user now but have used Macs in the past. I am waiting, impatiently, to get a Powerbook (been waiting since Dec. 04). Am wondering what you guys think? Am a bit confused about this WHOLE matter..

Dual G4, 1.5GHZ G4, G5 - can someone explain to me what the difference is, speed-wise? I have never understood Mac speeds (I am a mac noob) so Dual-whatever does not make sense to me!

The Dual G4 everybody is talking about is a dual-core G4, which is one chip that essentially has two processors on it, hence two cores. The main difference between the G5 and G4 is the bus speeds (FSB).

PowerBook G4 FSB - 167Mhz
iBook G4 FSB - 133Mhz
PowerMac Highend FSB - 1.25Ghz per processor
iMac G5 FSB - 600Mhz (?)
PowerBook G5 - probably not a huge increase in processor speed, but the main advantage to the G5 would be its bus speed, possibly 3 - 5 times faster FSB would mean a lot of performance increase, even if the processor only gains 10 - 20% in speed.

hopefully that helps a little bit.

[rdowns]

Remember that this dates are shipping dates not release dates. Apple is learning from its past shipping shortages and is ramping up supply.


I needed a good laugh. Just checked the Apple store:

iPod shuffle 512MB- 2-3 weeks
iPod shuffle 1GB- 3-4 weeks
Stock $499 mini - 3-4 weeks
Stock $599 mini- 3-4 weeks

Apple has done some wonderful things this past year but they couldn't forecast demand for water in the middle of the Sahara desert.

[aesth3tic]

yea same here. im sick of PC's and ive been waiting since december 04 to switch - i think the best idea is waiting for the G5. but seriously, whats the main difference in the G5 and G4, obviously the G5 is better, but why?

Do you see G4 PB prices dropping significantly ($600 or so)?

1. Difference between G5 and G4 processors.
there are two main advantages to the G5 to the G4 in respects to performance:
a) System bus speed. The current G4 PowerBook 1.5 Ghz has 167Mhz and the G5 PowerMac 2.5Ghz has 1.25Ghz per processor. That is a huge difference.
b) 64-bit processing ability vs. 32-bit only for the G4s. 64-bit only comes into play if you need huge amounts of memory (like say 4GB or more) & for calculation intensize operations.

G4 PB prices dropping $600? ummmm...not going happen, at least right when the G5 PB is introduced. Possibly a year or more after G5PB release. The most you might see is $200...at least thats what i would think.

:)

[maya]

I needed a good laugh. Just checked the Apple store:

iPod shuffle 512MB- 2-3 weeks
iPod shuffle 1GB- 3-4 weeks
Stock $499 mini - 3-4 weeks
Stock $599 mini- 3-4 weeks

Apple has done some wonderful things this past year but they couldn't forecast demand for water in the middle of the Sahara desert.

However the demand for a new iPod and Mac desktop are uncertain to say the least.

The PowerBook and iBook are not new products however well instated products with some much anticipated upgrades to a new processor family.

There is a difference. :)

[jwhitnah]

They have every interest to diffuse speculation that a G5 is on the way in fear it will kill present PB sales due to customer expectation.
True. They made such a big deal about heir heroic engineering when the G5 debuted, it seemed significantly more difficult than modifying the G4 for a powerbook. Also, the progression in performance of the G5 has be much lower and slower than expected when introduced in '03. AI hope i'm wrong.

[jwhitnah]

In October [2004], Peter Oppenheimer, Apple’s CFO, reiterated Apple’s commitment to providing a premium product. “To date, we have chosen not to compete in the sub-$800 desktop market,” he said.

That really makes me question just how much we can trust what he says about future products.
Yes, but they are often right when stating they won't do something. No apple PDA or video iPod yet. Also if you carefully read that quote above, you could argue he was absolutely right and honest (though MISLEADING) when he made that statement.

[macidiot]

I agree. No way will Apple release a G5 iBook the same time as a Powerbook. Unless they were going to a G5 only lineup which would put the G4 Mac mini where? Besides I don't think we would see G5 Powerbooks announced at any small event. My guess is announced in June and shipping in September.


They could do it. They could just cripple the iBook. Sort of like the iMac vs. 1.8 Powermac. Slower drives, weak video, slower ram... I could see only the top iBook being G5, with the rest G4.

The G4 is seriously old. And the mini would just slot where the eMac has been. It would just be where it should be, at the bottom of the line. The mini should not impact iBook sales(very price conscious segment) and vice versa.

I do think that it will be Powerbooks first though, then iBooks. But considering both require a complete redesign, I don't see why they wouldn't do the engineering for both at the same time.

[pilotgi]

Don't forget that IBM is making the processors for PlayStation3 which supposedly are going to be built on the 65nm process and use the "cell" technology. PS3 is supposed to be available in 2006.

So I think it's obvious that 2005 is the year of the G5 PB and that cell processors will also be available in Apple products next year. I also think that the next version of PB's will have pci express and maybe even ddr2.

[KindredMAC]

However the demand for a new iPod and Mac desktop are uncertain to say the least.

The PowerBook and iBook are not new products however well instated products with some much anticipated upgrades to a new processor family.

There is a difference. :)

How can you say the demand is uncertain for the iPod shuffle and Mac mini??? Apple is running out of these things already after 4 days of sale availability!!!! And they have been making these in Asia since November!!!!

[maya]

How can you say the demand is uncertain for the iPod shuffle and Mac mini??? Apple is running out of these things already after 4 days of sale availability!!!! And they have been making these in Asia since November!!!!

Do I work in the Apple Logistics department. ;)

Maybe BOZO the clown does not me, why the heck should I care. :)


There could be numerous issues on many ends, neither YOU or I or anyone else for that matter can say for sure.

Apple had the same problem with the iPod mini, PMG5, iPod, iMac G5 and 17" PBG4. Have they learnt anything maybe, maybe not. I believe they learnt a hard lesson with the Cube and are playing it safe.

There is no way of knowing if a flash iPod or a headless Mac will do well. Both a new products its not an existing product such as an iPod mini getting a larger HDD or a PBG4 getting a processor bump. :)

What if the Shuffle and Mac mini were not welcome with warm acceptance?

Then what another Cube story. :rolleyes:

[rdowns]

However the demand for a new iPod and Mac desktop are uncertain to say the least.

The PowerBook and iBook are not new products however well instated products with some much anticipated upgrades to a new processor family.

There is a difference. :)

Right, no one has been asking for a lower priced iPod for almost 3 years or headless Mac for 5. Apple has always sucked at forecasting demand. Had the same problems when I was a reseller in the 90s.

[maya]

Right, no one has been asking for a lower priced iPod for almost 3 years or headless Mac for 5. Apple has always sucked at forecasting demand. Had the same problems when I was a reseller in the 90s.

Send an email to Apple in regards to this matter. ;) :)

Maybe they can hire you in the process. :)

[3Memos]

I think anytime a product retails for a competitive market price, it makes sense to forecast a higher demand, than something like the cube, which was a powerful computer, but upgradeable and pricing doomed it from the start.

[Chip NoVaMac]

I think anytime a product retails for a competitive market price, it makes sense to forecast a higher demand, than something like the cube, which was a powerful computer, but upgradeable and pricing doomed it from the start.

There is something about having a product that everyone wants, but can't get right away that fuels even more demand.

[maya]

There is something about having a product that everyone wants, but can't get right away that fuels even more demand.

For example:

Christmas 2003 = iPod

Christmas 2004 = iPod mini

Christmas 2005 = iPod shuffle (just a guess ;) )

[themacman]

Doubt it....when they say ship they prob mean to a super secret Apple bunker warehouse under Cheyenne Mountain. There is NO….absolutely NO chance in hell of Apple shipping a PowerBook G5 before Jobs demos it at WWDC. Which is in 2nd qt. Hmmmm


Hears hoping its true. My loan for a PowerBook is sitting here collecting dust waiting for Apple.
why do you think that they will rrealease a G5 pb at wwdc? its a developers confrence not a product expo. Nothing to devolpe for a g5

[rockandrule]

So, many believe that a PowerBook G5 will be released at WWDC. If this theory turns out to be true, how soon do you think it will take for the PowerBooks to hit the shelves/arrive in homes? I am moving away to college August 15th and I'm buying a PowerBook whether or not it's a G5, but I just wanted to know if you all believe it would be plausible to believe that I might be able to get my hands on something debuted at WWDC by August 15th.

[sunilraman]

Send an email to Apple in regards to this matter. ;) :)

Maybe they can hire you in the process. :)

maya, i agree that apple has a tough time and it is unpredictable situation predicting demand :D

but the other poster saying, it is correct that it can be said that past few years they have not been on the mark with estimating demand

all in all, they are running things tight because it wants to keep shareholders happy, and a pent-up demand is always good when you are marketing something that is seen as very desirable and beneficial to oneself :cool:

[ebunton]

Well at least it's some faint sign/hope that pb g5's are on their way...

Isn't this really too long for an update in a company's notebook line?

[maya]

all in all, they are running things tight because it wants to keep shareholders happy, and a pent-up demand is always good when you are marketing something that is seen as very desirable and beneficial to oneself :cool:

BINGO, Apple has been playing this with the iPod, iPod mini, iPod shuffle (current), PMG5, and now Mac mini (current).

That is the Apple game. :)

[jwhitnah]

Well I have a PIC wont last long Apple Legal will pull it The G5 is so hot, it melted the case!

[jwhitnah]

So, many believe that a PowerBook G5 will be released at WWDC. If this theory turns out to be true, how soon do you think it will take for the PowerBooks to hit the shelves/arrive in homes? I am moving away to college August 15th and I'm buying a PowerBook whether or not it's a G5, but I just wanted to know if you all believe it would be plausible to believe that I might be able to get my hands on something debuted at WWDC by August 15th.

Plausible. The shuffle and mini are essentially ready now. On the other hand, back in June '03 when the announced the G5, I think the 2.0 GHz's were not ready until October.

[panphage]

The Dual G4 everybody is talking about is a dual-core G4, which is one chip that essentially has two processors on it, hence two cores.
And everyone who talks about it should go look at Freescale's website. I don't think the dual-core PCI-Express PowerPC MDC8641D is going to show up in apple products anytime soon. http://freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/overview.jsp?code=DRPPCDUALCORE
It won't even start sampling till the second half of this year (according to the Register a few months ago. So it'd be a year at the very very least before we see this in an apple machine. At least the FSB gets all the way up to 667 AND dual onboard memory controllers, so that's pretty sweet. It really looks like the MDC8641D is meant for the embedded market rather than ending up in a desk/lap top machine. Plus, the chip itself doesn't appear to have better power consumption than the 970fx. Freescale says "starts at 15W" for 1.5GHz. IBM says 12.3W for 1.4GHz.

The 7448 (more of the same lame G4 crap w/a BLAZING 200MHz bus) is sampling in the first half of this year, and is pin-compatible with the 7447 that's in PBs now. If we don't see a 970FX-based PB, the 7448 is probably the next logical step in the PB stagnation saga.

[3Memos]

why do you think that they will rrealease a G5 pb at wwdc? its a developers confrence not a product expo. Nothing to devolpe for a g5

They introduced the G5 at WWDC in 2003. I think they introduce alot of the professional products during this time.

[Yvan256]

Picture of the PowerBook G5... (http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/laptops-pcs/apple/apple-powerbook-ibook-g5-rumors-from-taiwan-029750.php) :D

[jlewis2k1]

Picture of the PowerBook G5... (http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/laptops-pcs/apple/apple-powerbook-ibook-g5-rumors-from-taiwan-029750.php) :D


dude! do you really think that apple is going to go from THIN to THICK? lol that think would weigh more than a ton on someone's lap

[Chip NoVaMac]

Picture of the PowerBook G5... (http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/laptops-pcs/apple/apple-powerbook-ibook-g5-rumors-from-taiwan-029750.php) :D

Sort of goes with a question that I asked long time ago whether users were willing accept a thicker PB in order to get a G5 in it for the short term till heat issues could be addressed. I don't think it would have to be as thick as this picture, but more inline with the thicker Win box books out there.

Most said no way they would give up on size. Well you can't have everything when you want it.

[3Memos]

Picture of the PowerBook G5... (http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/laptops-pcs/apple/apple-powerbook-ibook-g5-rumors-from-taiwan-029750.php) :D

Another PowerBook G5. I actually think this one is in the works. Look at the surface area. Surely Apple could use it to dissipate the heat.

[Platform]

Mac mini G5! :D :D

That would be so great but then i have to wait 1/2 a year for that and the mac is just beeing pused forwarrd agin to wait for the new, want one now :D

[Platform]

Another PowerBook G5. I actually think this one is in the works. Look at the surface area. Surely Apple could use it to dissipate the heat.

Sweet, but if this happens that the top of the line PB gets 2GB RAM as standard then there needs to be a serious update on the whole line :rolleyes: (Mac mini with 1GB standard :D )

[3Memos]

Sweet, but if this happens that the top of the line PB gets 2GB RAM as standard then there needs to be a serious update on the whole line :rolleyes: (Mac mini with 1GB standard :D )

I believe the 2GB RAM comes standard. Its upgradeable to 16GBs. :D

[MacNut]

Wouldn't a G5 iBook need a new design to handle the heat, I would think the plastic would melt even with a low power chip. The Powerbook wouldn't need as many changes since its already aluminum.

[pigwin32]

New projections of a Powerbook G5 by the end of this new financial quarter are much too optimistic, according to sources in Cupertino; apparently, even the "first half of the year" may be a difficult deadline to meet. New G4-class PowerPCs from Freescale will power new Powerbooks for at least two new revisions, we're told.
Two revs from Freescale, this could be bad news or it could be good news or given MOSR's reputation this could be no news. My view would be first rev single core pin-compatible drop in with an old man's fsb, second rev dual core all new architecture/enclosure with firehose I/O. Oh, and in case anyone has forgotten, Freescale used to be Motorola. Plus the dual-core chip isn't supposed to be sampling until the second half of the year.

I'm still waiting for a reason to upgrade and I'm still determined I won't be buying a G4 with a 200MHz FSB. Meanwhile my upgrade fund is paying dividends, WTF, waiting is good.

[Poff]

Does this mean 3.0 GHz powermacs soon? When were those due, really? It was supposed to be last summer, wasn't it? Then they updated the promise to be last fall. Hasn't come yet.. should come soon, I hope!

[Mord]

I believe the 2GB RAM comes standard. Its upgradeable to 16GBs. :D

well the powermac g5 is upgradeable to 16GB, maybe 32GB no one has tested 4GB sticks as they cost like $5,000

[devman]

These aren't the rumors you're looking for. Move along.

[Yvan256]

Another PowerBook G5. I actually think this one is in the works. Look at the surface area. Surely Apple could use it to dissipate the heat.

I'm not sure but I'd take a thicker PowerBook than a larger one.

Think about it... 30" LCD? That PowerBook would be so huge that you'd probably never carry it around. :D

[3Memos]

I'm not sure but I'd take a thicker PowerBook than a larger one.

Think about it... 30" LCD? That PowerBook would be so huge that you'd probably never carry it around. :D

I know. :) I've seen how large a 30" Apple Cinema Display is, and it is huge!! It's funny though, if one were to carry around a 30" PowerBook. :D

[themacman]

They introduced the G5 at WWDC in 2003. I think they introduce alot of the professional products during this time.
but there was something to devolope for it, theres nothing to develope for a g5 pb. Maybe it will become the profesional products expo, what came out last year.

[rdowns]

I'm not sure but I'd take a thicker PowerBook than a larger one.

Think about it... 30" LCD? That PowerBook would be so huge that you'd probably never carry it around. :D

It's not like it hasn't been done before.

[wdlove]

I think that the second of the PowerBook designs looks much better. Conforms more with the current model. Still heat will be the issue.

[yg17]

If Apple can actually squeeze a G5 into a laptop, I dont see having iBook and PowerBook G5s at the same time that unlikley.

Lets say the iBooks go up to a 14" screen and a 1.4GHz G5 processor, then the PowerBooks start at 2.0GHz G5s with the screen sizes available now, bigger/faster hard drives, more RAM capacity, ect, I think that would draw a fine line between consumer and pro user and wouldn't hurt the sales of either one.

I'm actually rather surprised the mini didn't come with a 1.2ish GHz G5, you would think Apple would want to move their entire line away from older processors, especially when Tiger and other software will begin to take advantage of the G5 and 64 bit, it just doesnt seem wise to say something like "Introducing Tiger, supporting all the benefits of 64 bit computing, but guess what? Your brand new Mac won't offer those benefits!"

[sjpetry]

Lets say the iBooks go up to a 14" screen and a 1.4GHz G5 processor


The iBook will always have at least a 12" screen for portability. ;)

[rozwell]

The iBook will always have at least a 12" screen for portability. ;)
... 14 is still smaller than the mammoth 17, and far more portable than a g5...

[sjpetry]

... 14 is still smaller than the mammoth 17, and far more portable than a g5...

But not small enough to be ultra-portable. Personally I would choose a 12" and then get a cinema display for home. :cool:

[yg17]

The iBook will always have at least a 12" screen for portability. ;)

I should have worded it better. I meant the sizes would be no bigger than 14", so the 12 and 14 we have now. my bad

[aesth3tic]

If Apple can actually squeeze a G5 into a laptop, I dont see having iBook and PowerBook G5s at the same time that unlikley.

Lets say the iBooks go up to a 14" screen and a 1.4GHz G5 processor, then the PowerBooks start at 2.0GHz G5s with the screen sizes available now, bigger/faster hard drives, more RAM capacity, ect, I think that would draw a fine line between consumer and pro user and wouldn't hurt the sales of either one.

I'm actually rather surprised the mini didn't come with a 1.2ish GHz G5, you would think Apple would want to move their entire line away from older processors, especially when Tiger and other software will begin to take advantage of the G5 and 64 bit, it just doesnt seem wise to say something like "Introducing Tiger, supporting all the benefits of 64 bit computing, but guess what? Your brand new Mac won't offer those benefits!"

I was thinking the same thing about the Mac Mini being G4....

But, if you think about it, it could be a good thing that it is G4. Once Apple moves the PowerBook, iBook and eMac to G5 within the next year and half (or more...) they will need to continue to offer a G4 to use up the remaining supply, plus that will allow for them to do a couple revs without moving it to a G5. The Mac mini is going to stay G4 for a long time anyways, there has to be a reason for it.

And as far as tiger and 64 bit processors....um thats just crap. All Macs are going to see improvements with Tiger, whether or not they are G4 or G5 or even G3...

[aesth3tic]

but there was something to devolope for it, theres nothing to develope for a g5 pb. Maybe it will become the profesional products expo, what came out last year.

okay, your comeback is terrible. WWDC is used as a forum for Apple to display new products, even though it is centered around different topics than that of MacWorld SF.

WWDC 2003 - PowerMac G5
WWDC 2004 - New Apple Cinema Displays
WWDC 2005 - ????

Whether or not there is something to "develope" for it or not, Apple has a history of debuting their new hardware/software at any event that has a large Apple following present.

[sjpetry]

I was thinking the same thing about the Mac Mini being G4....

But, if you think about it, it could be a good thing that it is G4. Once Apple moves the PowerBook, iBook and eMac to G5 within the next year and half (or more...) they will need to continue to offer a G4 to use up the remaining supply, plus that will allow for them to do a couple revs without moving it to a G5. The Mac mini is going to stay G4 for a long time anyways, there has to be a reason for it.

And as far as tiger and 64 bit processors....um thats just crap. All Macs are going to see improvements with Tiger, whether or not they are G4 or G5 or even G3...

Do you have any idea how slow a G3 would be running 10.4?

[drsuse]

Do you have any idea how slow a G3 would be running 10.4?


i would imagine similar to a g3 running panther.

[sjpetry]

i would imagine similar to a g3 running panther.

From what I have heard 10.4 will require a lot more performance than 10.3. Do remember it is a major release. ;)

P.S. Tiger is the first OS to be optimized for the G5 chip which is much faster than a G3 chip.

[manu chao]

From what I have heard 10.4 will require a lot more performance than 10.3. Do remember it is a major release. ;)

P.S. Tiger is the first OS to be optimized for the G5 chip which is much faster than a G3 chip.

It is amazing how easy it is to create any kind of myths, it all starts with 'from what I've heard...'

10.1 was much/noticeably faster than 10.0, 10.2 was much/noticeably faster than 10.1, 10.3 was noticeably/somewhat faster than 10.2, from what I've heard and from my own experience (the first two transitions I did on a G3, the last on a G4).
10.4 won't be much faster and perhaps not even noticeably than 10.3, simply because by now (i.e. with 10.3) they did all the easy/obvious/big-effect optimizations, but so far major releases have speeded up things rather than slowed them down.
Some additional stuff running in the background (i.e. indexing for Spotlight, or encrypting for FileVault in the case of 10.3) naturally can and will slow down things a bit, but I really can't see why '10.4 will require a lot more performance'. Believe me, the Apple programmers are smart enough to optimize code for the G5 without making it any more than marginally slower on a G3 or G4.

[Xgreed]

I wonder how to judge the following job posting from apple.
Does it refer to G5 based portables? If so, would a rumored Q2/05 start not be too soon for the open position?

-----

Title: Senior Product Design Engineer
Req. ID: 2242221
Location: Santa Clara Valley, California
Country: United States
Req Date: 04-Jan-2005

As a member of a cross-functional design team at Apple, you will help to create the next generation of the world's finest portable computers and accessories. You will conceive, design, and bring into production products that will re-define the portable computing experience. You will work closely with many different cross functional teams including Industrial Design, Packaging, Safety, Hardware Engineering, EMC, and Marketing.
*
Required Experience:
* BSME required, MS Preferred.
* 2-10 years experience in product design.
* Requires demonstrated ability in plasti, sheetmetal, and cast part design.
* 3-D CAD skills essential.

-----

[sjpetry]

It is amazing how easy it is to create any kind of myths, it all starts with 'from what I've heard...'

10.1 was much/noticeably faster than 10.0, 10.2 was much/noticeably faster than 10.1, 10.3 was noticeably/somewhat faster than 10.2, from what I've heard and from my own experience (the first two transitions I did on a G3, the last on a G4).
10.4 won't be much faster and perhaps not even noticeably than 10.3, simply because by now (i.e. with 10.3) they did all the easy/obvious/big-effect optimizations, but so far major releases have speeded up things rather than slowed them down.
Some additional stuff running in the background (i.e. indexing for Spotlight, or encrypting for FileVault in the case of 10.3) naturally can and will slow down things a bit, but I really can't see why '10.4 will require a lot more performance'. Believe me, the Apple programmers are smart enough to optimize code for the G5 without making it any more than marginally slower on a G3 or G4.

Do remember that the public release of Tiger hasn't been released yet so of course it is from what I've heard. :confused:

[gco212]

I noticed that the article was moved to the front page from Page 2, and the biggest difference between the two is tha that page 1 rumors are much more trustworthy. Was it moved because it seemed more believable now to the mods (based on some new information or something), or was it just generating so much traffic that it made more sense to have it on the front page.

[narco]

I agree, update the powerbook to a G5, then the iBook later. I just hope they update the look of the powerbook, even though I can't imagine Apple coming up with a better design than the current one. But then again, Apple never ceases to surprise me.

Fishes,
narco.

[k28]

unless PM G5 get bump up to 3.5,
then iMac to 2.2 and 2.0 ,
PB 2.5, 2.2 and 2.0,
and iBook will be 1.8 and 1.6.
But this will happen in next year......!!!

if iBook will update soon it could be G4 1.5 maximum. .his will not happen untill PB G5 out (and iMac G5 update).

[TheMasin9]

Man this is gonna be great isnt it, sure its been a while since the pbs have been upgraded, but i think the G5 is definatly worth the wait. This laptop is going to be faster than most DESKTOPS. As far as ibook g5s go, i dont see much use for them really, the g4 ibook is still a great tool for most productivity and similar softwares, the powerbooks need an over haul on video, processor, and system bus. I know macworld was big, but i think the wwdc has potential to be huge if g5 portables hit the market.

[nagromme]

I give PowerBook G5s a 75% chance of happening this year. 50% by mid-year. 100% chance of SOME significant upgrade, even if it's still G4.

I give iBooks a 5% chance of getting a G5 before LATE 2006. 0% for 2005.

But when they do---the Mini's going to follow :)

The move to page one--without disclaimer--is puzzling. Mention of an iBook G5 just seems so likely to be an error by somebody.

If there's more evidence that turns this sci-fi into a real chance, I'd be intrigued!

(Don't worry, if I'm wrong I won't go all Bill Palmer :) )

[swissmann]

I really don't believe. However, I am wondering if it is deemed reliable because it was moved from page 2 to page 1. I still don't believe it but what is going on?

[anubis]

It's interesting to note the projected production numbers for the Powerbook G5 are much lower than the iBook G5. I wonder what that means? I think there are 3 possibilities: Apple expects shortages of high-speed low-heat G5 processors such that the number of Powerbooks produced will initially be small, the Powerbook G5 will be too expensive for most people to afford, a typo, or any combination of the three.

[slffl]

Amazing how much press a typo can cause.

[themacman]

okay, your comeback is terrible. WWDC is used as a forum for Apple to display new products, even though it is centered around different topics than that of MacWorld SF.

WWDC 2003 - PowerMac G5
WWDC 2004 - New Apple Cinema Displays
WWDC 2005 - ????

Whether or not there is something to "develope" for it or not, Apple has a history of debuting their new hardware/software at any event that has a large Apple following present.
just asking a ?

[gco212]

It's interesting to note the projected production numbers for the Powerbook G5 are much lower than the iBook G5. I wonder what that means? I think there are 3 possibilities: Apple expects shortages of high-speed low-heat G5 processors such that the number of Powerbooks produced will initially be small, the Powerbook G5 will be too expensive for most people to afford, a typo, or any combination of the three.

Most people don't have $2000 to put into a notebook. I would bet that the iBook is always a much better selling item, even with the introduction of the G5 in a laptop.

[puckhead193]

I hope this is true, maybe by next school year i could upgrade my "old" g4 pb for a G5 :p

[Naimfan]

I generally agree with Nagromme's percentages--I think a G5 PB likely, though not guaranteed, in 2005, while I cannot conceive of a G5 iBook this year.

As far as speed goes--I wouldn't be too sure a G5 PB will be all that much faster. A while ago I compared the benchmarks of the G4 1.5GHz PB vs the 1.6 GHz G5 PM. And the G5 Powermac was somewhat faster--but by less of a factor than the clock speed. And that was using a 7200 RPM HD, an 800 MHz FSB, etc.--the PM had all the advantages. I have no doubt that on other tests the PM would have shown more of an advantage.

Edit: I found the link: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=63754

When I pointed out the lack of performance improvement, someone said the REAL point was to insure compatibility with future software. How ironic!

Best,

Bob

[Platform]

I believe the 2GB RAM comes standard. Its upgradeable to 16GBs. :D

WOW :D :eek: :D

[Platform]

From what I have heard 10.4 will require a lot more performance than 10.3. Do remember it is a major release. ;)

P.S. Tiger is the first OS to be optimized for the G5 chip which is much faster than a G3 chip.

So how about a Mac mini G4 1.42Ghz with 512MB ram :confused:

[IDANNY]

I hope !!!!!!!!!
If this happens I would defiantly buy one. If they stayed around the same price. :)

[TheMasin9]

I was thinking the same thing about the Mac Mini being G4....

But, if you think about it, it could be a good thing that it is G4. Once Apple moves the PowerBook, iBook and eMac to G5 within the next year and half (or more...) they will need to continue to offer a G4 to use up the remaining supply, plus that will allow for them to do a couple revs without moving it to a G5. The Mac mini is going to stay G4 for a long time anyways, there has to be a reason for it.

And as far as tiger and 64 bit processors....um thats just crap. All Macs are going to see improvements with Tiger, whether or not they are G4 or G5 or even G3...

i know there was already a posting beginning with "from what i heard" and this is goin to be another and i apologize. From what i hear, Tiger is not going to work with computers that have less than 64 mb of vram. This would be apple shooting itself int the foot bigtime because of the 32 meg of vram in the mac mini which hopefully is goin to be a big seller. I think that apple is going to be sure that tiger will work back to at least 32 mb vram because if it didnt, alot of the old TIbooks would not be able to run in Tiger as well. Can anyone reaffirm anthing said here?

[dontmatter]

what warranted this getting moved from page two to page one? I don't know a thing about digitimes, but I can't believe ibook g5's are that close. Given all the trouble apple has gone through to say that PB g5's are nowhere near to coming, to expect an ibook g5 that soon? I'll believe it when i see it. Also, are the powerbook numbers really that low? And for that matter, if the mini is to be 100,000 per month... that's, what, one in ten ipods? Or are there multiple makers of the mini? Or are we not expecting that many ipods post-christmas?

[3Memos]

I give PowerBook G5s a 75% chance of happening this year. 50% by mid-year. 100% chance of SOME significant upgrade, even if it's still G4.

I'm 100% sure Apple will come out with a PowerBook update with a G4 by April. Then G5 at least by the Fall or Q1 2006.

[yg17]

i know there was already a posting beginning with "from what i heard" and this is goin to be another and i apologize. From what i hear, Tiger is not going to work with computers that have less than 64 mb of vram. This would be apple shooting itself int the foot bigtime because of the 32 meg of vram in the mac mini which hopefully is goin to be a big seller. I think that apple is going to be sure that tiger will work back to at least 32 mb vram because if it didnt, alot of the old TIbooks would not be able to run in Tiger as well. Can anyone reaffirm anthing said here?

I doubt it. theres no way Apple would release a new computer that wont be compatible with a new version of the OS in a few months.

[mkjellman]

tiger will have just about the same specs as Panther...I know they changed one little thing...could be memory..but I am an ADC Select member and have run every version of Tiger so far and they work it even works on an old iMac DV soooo....

also, why would they design a computer that hasn't even shipped yet to be outdated when Tiger comes out...

Hopefully Apple will have Tiger scale better than Panther does because w/o a Quartz compatible machine you really notice the difference

So far thats not really the case..but its alpha right :)

[sjpetry]

So how about a Mac mini G4 1.42Ghz with 512MB ram :confused:

That will be fine, I was talking about G3s. :)

[Rod Rod]

I hope !!!!!!!!!
If this happens I would defiantly buy one. If they stayed around the same price. :)

How can buying one be considered defiant?

The good news is white iBook G3s will go for less than $300 if this is true. :) Resale value on iBook G4s will be similarly crushed. This is a good thing. The price of progress is high for early adopters and cheap for those who lag behind.

[Platform]

tiger will have just about the same specs as Panther...I know they changed one little thing...could be memory..but I am an ADC Select member and have run every version of Tiger so far and they work it even works on an old iMac DV soooo....

also, why would they design a computer that hasn't even shipped yet to be outdated when Tiger comes out...

Hopefully Apple will have Tiger scale better than Panther does because w/o a Quartz compatible machine you really notice the difference

So far thats not really the case..but its alpha right :)

Thank you

Now i know that iam safe to buy a Mac mini and be able to run Tiger and maby even 10.5 name...... :D

[kasei]

I smell lawsuit......

[Hemingray]

iBook G5 eh? Baloney. PowerBook G5 first in 2005, then MAYBE an iBook G5 in 2006 at the earliest! There needs to be more of a gap between the iBook and the PowerBook, like the days of iBook G3's and PowerBook G4's. The iBook was the last to sport a G3, and it would make sense to be the last to sport G4's, too.

[3Memos]

I think they should drop the PowerBook and iBook lines and consolidate them into a MacBook line, with 4-5 models, the last two of which would be cheap enough to cater to the low-end laptop market. It would save on manufacturing costs, and simplify the entire Apple line-up, which in recent years, has become more and more confusing.

[tripjack]

Um, given Apple's recent tirade of lawsuits against Think Secret and others don't you think macworld and digitimes would've been forced to pull this article already if it were true?

Steve is laughing his ass off at this one. Sorry folks, no PB G5 is coming soon, we'd be lucky if he even mentioned it at WWDC.

[Platform]

iBook G5 eh? Baloney. PowerBook G5 first in 2005, then MAYBE an iBook G5 in 2006 at the earliest! There needs to be more of a gap between the iBook and the PowerBook, like the days of iBook G3's and PowerBook G4's. The iBook was the last to sport a G3, and it would make sense to be the last to sport G4's, too.

When was the last G3 produced :confused:

[i_am_a_cow]

woo hoo front page!

[3Memos]

woo hoo front page!
on page 2. :p

//edit: nm. looks like page 2 thread made it to page 1 home page.

[FredAkbar]

When was the last G3 produced :confused:
The iBook G4 was released on April 19, 2004, so Apple stopped using the G3 at that point.

[sjpetry]

I smell lawsuit......

me too. :rolleyes:

[joeboy_45101]

We will probably see one or two more revisions of the PowerBook G4 before we see the the PowerBook G5. And when the PowerBook G4 moves up in a revision so will the iBook G4, sporting approximately the same G4 processor that was in the previous revision PowerBook G4. I think that this is a much safer and smarter approach by Apple, I can remember when the PowerBooks would get newer and newer G4's and the iBooks would still have the same old G3's. Nowadays, the iBook G4 is just the previous PowerBook G4 revision in a new package.

Remember optimism is just lying about the future. And since the future hasn't really happened yet, then it's not really lying.

[Photorun]

What the... ? How'd THIS make it to front page?!?!?!!? I'd at least have expected pigs flying or monkeys flying out of my butt before something this erroneous and fabricated to make it as front page... I mean, this is MacRUMORS, and clearly this type of BS, total and utterly exquisite BS, is the purist of BS, and any SANE person would realize as completely false as anything uttered here. Rumors... rumors, rumors... reality, sorry kids, no G5 laptop anything. You're wasthing your time reading this thread, it is not happening, not now, not soon, possible not ever, move along. Thanks.

[joeboy_45101]

The iBook G4 was released on April 19, 2004, so Apple stopped using the G3 at that point.

No, your facts are wrong. The iBook G4 was first released at the end of October, 2003. It was the first Mac model to come pre-installed with Panther too.

[GFLPraxis]

Ridiculous. I hope we DON'T get PowerBook G5's.

I'm hoping for those new dual core G4's. I'd rather have the 25w dual core 1.5 GHz G4 than a 2 GHz G5.

[3Memos]

Ridiculous. I hope we DON'T get PowerBook G5's.

I'm hoping for those new dual core G4's. I'd rather have the 25w dual core 1.5 GHz G4 than a 2 GHz G5.

That's true. Unless the PowerBook has enough RAM slots to upgrade past 4GB, I see using a G5 as overkill. A dual-core G4 makes a whole lot more sense, that you can turn one off depending on the power mode and energy-saving setting.

[iPodAddict]

I decided i wasnt going to read a whole 8 pages worth of stuff, so im gonna point this out here and now. When you check the source, eg DigiTimes, you will see if you look closely at the chart, you will note that it says they will ship the iBook/iBook G5 and a PowerBook G5. This leads me to belive that they will still be shipping the G4 model of the iBook. It also leads me to belive that they will only have certain models of the iBook G5 as an upper class model, and seemingly, they will change the entire line of PowerBooks to the G5 chip. Personally, based on this conclusion, it looks as though by doing this, Apple will boost sales of both iBook and PowerBooks because of the extreame difference in the two. Such a difference has been lacking, in my opinion, since the introduction of the G4 iBook.

[Platform]

The iBook G4 was released on April 19, 2004, so Apple stopped using the G3 at that point.

So usually a cpu generation last for two major OS releases, So the G4 should last for 10.5 as well and then for 10.6 you need a G5 for min specs or am I wrong :confused:

[GFLPraxis]

I decided i wasnt going to read a whole 8 pages worth of stuff, so im gonna point this out here and now. When you check the source, eg DigiTimes, you will see if you look closely at the chart, you will note that it says they will ship the iBook/iBook G5 and a PowerBook G5. This leads me to belive that they will still be shipping the G4 model of the iBook. It also leads me to belive that they will only have certain models of the iBook G5 as an upper class model, and seemingly, they will change the entire line of PowerBooks to the G5 chip. Personally, based on this conclusion, it looks as though by doing this, Apple will boost sales of both iBook and PowerBooks because of the extreame difference in the two. Such a difference has been lacking, in my opinion, since the introduction of the G4 iBook.

Since my post is second to last on page 8, I doubt it'll be seen so I'll repost.

It seems to me a bad move going to G5. It also seems unrealistic. There have been NO ANNOUNCEMENTS of low voltage G5's from IBM whatsoever. On the other hand, Motorola has announced dual core 1.5 GHz G4's that run at a mere 15-25w! And single core that gets 10w at 1.5!

Can you imagine the speed boost? iBook at 1.5 GHz, with a 6-8 hour battery life (say goodbye, Centrino!). PowerBook, with a dual core 1.5 GHz and 5-6 hour battery life. That'd be an awesome lineup. And blazing fast- A dual core 1.5 G4 would probably outperform a 2 GHz G5.

Who needs 64-bit? :D

[Platform]

Who needs 64-bit? :D

We will only see that as a need in several years 32Bit will proberly have a long time to live :o

[GFLPraxis]

So usually a cpu generation last for two major OS releases, So the G4 should last for 10.5 as well and then for 10.6 you need a G5 for min specs or am I wrong :confused:


The G4 is far from dead. Motorola will be releasing dual core 1.5 G4's (see above post) very soon, and G4's that scale up to 2 GHz shortly after that. They've even announced they're working on adding 64-bit extensions to the G4.

A 64-bit low-power dual-core 2 GHz G4 would be sweet for notebooks, with a dual-core 3 GHz G5 in desktops :D

[obeygiant]

i wish i had a time machine...

[GFLPraxis]

We will only see that as a need in several years 32Bit will proberly have a long time to live :o

I shoulda said, "Who needs 64-bit in a laptop?"

I can see it perfectly in a desktop. 4 GB of RAM can be passed fast. In a laptop, it can't very easily.

Besides, by 2006 we should have 64-bit G4's according to Motorola, so it makes sense to keep the G4s around.

[3Memos]

i wish i had a time machine...

LOL. :p To go back in time or ahead in the future?

[Platform]

The G4 is far from dead. Motorola will be releasing dual core 1.5 G4's (see above post) very soon, and G4's that scale up to 2 GHz shortly after that. They've even announced they're working on adding 64-bit extensions to the G4.

A 64-bit low-power dual-core 2 GHz G4 would be sweet for notebooks, with a dual-core 3 GHz G5 in desktops :D

But the G4 in the Mac mini 1.42Ghz would that be able or would 10.5 porberly have 64Bit requirment :confused:

[1984]

I decided i wasnt going to read a whole 8 pages worth of stuff, so im gonna point this out here and now. When you check the source, eg DigiTimes, you will see if you look closely at the chart, you will note that it says they will ship the iBook/iBook G5 and a PowerBook G5. This leads me to belive that they will still be shipping the G4 model of the iBook. It also leads me to belive that they will only have certain models of the iBook G5 as an upper class model, and seemingly, they will change the entire line of PowerBooks to the G5 chip. Personally, based on this conclusion, it looks as though by doing this, Apple will boost sales of both iBook and PowerBooks because of the extreame difference in the two. Such a difference has been lacking, in my opinion, since the introduction of the G4 iBook.

You are reading too much into it. Look at the chart again. They are simply stating that they intend to ship 1.3 to 1.5 million combined iBooks in 2005. This just means they are including both the iBook G4s they are currently shipping as well as the iBook G5s they intend to ship later this year in this figure.

[Marx55]

Hopefully they will put AT LEAST two FireWire ports on both the iBook G5 and PowerBook G5. SATA ports?

I hope this is not off-topic, but...

It is ridiculous what Apple has done with the Mac mini:

- No FireWire 800.
- Only one FireWire 400 port.

Does Apple really want to promote FireWire versus other alternatives like USB 2 or SATA? Or should perhaps Apple move to SATA ports altogether, which is much faster and seems the next industry standard?

We were set to switch and place a large corporate order of Macs mini to replace our aging PC-Windows systems, but such move has been postponed since we cannot boot the Macs mini from fast (7200 rpm) external drives (400 GB) and then have at least one FireWire port free. The internal Mac mini disk is too slow (4200 rpm) and small for us. And no, we cannot afford the expensive and noisy PowerMacs G5.

Hopefully the next Mac mini revision will have that. Or else we will definitely purchase PC-Windows machines where you are spoilt for choice. Our chance to switch vanishes again. Oh well...

[joshbuddy]

We were set to switch and place a large corporate order of Macs mini to replace our aging PC-Windows systems, but such move has been postponed since we cannot boot the Macs mini from fast (7200 rpm) external drives (400 GB) and then have at least one FireWire port free. The internal Mac mini disk is too slow (4200 rpm) and small for us. And no, we cannot afford the expensive and noisy PowerMacs G5.

don't most firewire drives have two firewire ports on them? at least all mine do. so even if you're booting off a firewire external drive, you have the extra port on the harddrive. don't see the big deal here.

*j*

[3Memos]

It is ridiculous what Apple has done with the Mac mini:

- No FireWire 800.
- Only one FireWire 400 port.



The $1599 PowerBook 12" has no firewire 800 and only 1 firewire 400 port and it costs three times as much the mini. Given this, you'd think they include 2 ports of firewire 400 or 800.

[Xtremehkr]

It's not hard to imagine that the G5 line could be made applicable to laptops as a whole. If it is the same chip that requires basically the same modifications, there is no reason why it couldn't be done accross the line.

Inroducing G5 Powerbooks (higher speed) and G5 iBooks (lower speed) at the same time would benefit consumers and Apple. I think it is both achievable and a good thing. It may slightly hurt the ego of Powerbook users, but Powerbook users are still going to have plenty to brag about.

[3Memos]

but Powerbook users are still going to have plenty to brag about.

Like gigabit ethernet and monitor spanning, crucial if you are doing any graphics work or transfering of large files like audio and video.

[BruinJohn]

I noticed that Apple doesn't have any powerbooks in their refurbished sections. Maybe thats an indicator of g4 powerbook supply. So, maybe the g5 is on its way in. Steve would probably announce it for immediate availability for WWDC, and in Paris for the new iBooks, which would be available immediately too. And I agree that the rev. b would be a better buy because they would resolve any issues they had with the rev. a. Just my opinion.

[Blue Velvet]

Hopefully they will put AT LEAST two FireWire ports on both the iBook G5 and PowerBook G5. SATA ports?

I hope this is not off-topic, but...

It is ridiculous what Apple has done with the Mac mini:

- No FireWire 800.
- Only one FireWire 400 port.

Does Apple really want to promote FireWire versus other alternatives like USB 2 or SATA? Or should perhaps Apple move to SATA ports altogether, which is much faster and seems the next industry standard?

We were set to switch and place a large corporate order of Macs mini to replace our aging PC-Windows systems, but such move has been postponed since we cannot boot the Macs mini from fast (7200 rpm) external drives (400 GB) and then have at least one FireWire port free. The internal Mac mini disk is too slow (4200 rpm) and small for us. And no, we cannot afford the expensive and noisy PowerMacs G5.

Hopefully the next Mac mini revision will have that. Or else we will definitely purchase PC-Windows machines where you are spoilt for choice. Our chance to switch vanishes again. Oh well...

What is it with you people?
The Mac Mini is a small consumer-oriented box.

FW 800 is a pro-level interface for peripherals: FW400 is suitable for most people's needs... and you say you want to hook 400gb drives up to the Mini's? Unless you're in the video business, I can't see why you need 400gb capacity on every desk and if you are in the video business than why buy Mini's?

Furthermore, there are other capable models between the G5 PMs and the minis – iMacs and eMacs... and the G5 PMs are not noisy, I work with one every day.

Just what kind of planet are you on?

[3Memos]

What is it with you people?
The Mac Mini is a small consumer-oriented box.

FW 800 is a pro-level interface for peripherals: FW400 is suitable for most people's needs...

Furthermore, there are other models between the G5 PMs and the minis.
iMacs and eMacs... and the G5 PMs are not noisy, I work with one every day.

Just what kind of planet are you on?

It seems a Dual G5 would fit his needs better than the Mac mini.

[Doctor Q]

I hope this is not off-topic, but...

It is ridiculous what Apple has done with the Mac mini...We have another thread for the Mac mini discussion.

[pigwin32]

i know there was already a posting beginning with "from what i heard" and this is goin to be another and i apologize. From what i hear, Tiger is not going to work with computers that have less than 64 mb of vram. This would be apple shooting itself int the foot bigtime because of the 32 meg of vram in the mac mini which hopefully is goin to be a big seller. I think that apple is going to be sure that tiger will work back to at least 32 mb vram because if it didnt, alot of the old TIbooks would not be able to run in Tiger as well. Can anyone reaffirm anthing said here?
It would be kind of stupid don't you think? Maybe even Bill Palmer (http://www.billpalmer.net/2005/01/apple-can-take-its-idiot-box-and-stick.html) stupid. Develop possibly the best selling Mac ever and then release a new operating system that won't run on it. Sheesh. The issue surfaced around Core Image (http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/coreimage.html).
For computers without a programmable GPU, Core Image dynamically optimizes for the CPU, automatically tuning for Velocity Engine and multiple processors as appropriate.
This just means that unless you have an appropriate GPU, your experience won't be as slick.

[louden]

but if these things have:

-decent battery life (variable speed proc)
-better resolution (I can get 1400 x 1050 on my Toshiba Tablet, with a smaller screen!)
-G5 power when you need it - That's you Photoshop


I'd be first in line....

[3Memos]

but if these things have:

-decent battery life (variable speed proc)
-better resolution (I can get 1400 x 1050 on my Toshiba Tablet, with a smaller screen!)
-G5 power when you need it - That's you Photoshop


I'd be first in line....

True. I'll not be the only one who thinks Apple needs to increase the resolution of their LCD screens while keeping them at the same size. It's becoming harder and harder to work in a 1024x768 environment in OSX.

[pigwin32]

Ridiculous. I hope we DON'T get PowerBook G5's.

I'm hoping for those new dual core G4's. I'd rather have the 25w dual core 1.5 GHz G4 than a 2 GHz G5.
Yeah, but I'd like to upgrade before the end of the year. Those dual-core chips aren't sampling until the second half at the earliest. Guess they could potentially make their way into a PB before Christmas maybe, MWSF '06 anyone?

I would like to know the reason this was bumped to Page 1. MOSR are claiming maybe 2 G4 revs before we see a G5 PB. And they're claiming (http://www.macosrumors.com/20050115.php) the next rev. will be using a 7447B chip and not the new 7448 e600 core.

[Blue Velvet]

...I'll not be the only one who thinks Apple needs to increase the resolution of their LCD screens while keeping them at the same resolution.

Sorry – could you clarify what you mean by that?

[3Memos]

Sorry – could you clarify what you mean by that?

:D Changed.

[pigwin32]

What is it with you people?
The Mac Mini is a small consumer-oriented box.

FW 800 is a pro-level interface for peripherals: FW400 is suitable for most people's needs... and you say you want to hook 400gb drives up to the Mini's? Unless you're in the video business, I can't see why you need 400gb capacity on every desk and if you are in the video business than why buy Mini's?

Furthermore, there are other capable models between the G5 PMs and the minis – iMacs and eMacs... and the G5 PMs are not noisy, I work with one every day.

Just what kind of planet are you on?
For system admin work in a large organisation, it can be convenient to plug an external drive in containing bootable images and diagnostics. Of course as previously pointed out, firewire devices are daisy-chainable and most will have 2 firewire ports, one to connect and one to daisy-chain. Having only a single port on the Mac Mini shouldn't be a hindrance, plus FW400 is pretty standard. I'm kind of glad the original poster doesn't work in my office although he sounds a little like our sysadmins, lots of bluster and little knowledge. I'm not sure why a "large corporate" would need external 7200 rpm drives, large corporates tend to do word processing/spreadsheets/email, 4200 rpm drives are more than adequate. Oh wait, silly me, it's a troll, never mind, nothing to see here, move along.

[Xtremehkr]

Apple has most always provided the best product for the price. Microsoft users seem to prefer the argument that is hardware biased lately, perhaps always. Sure, PC users may get more gadgets for the same price but if you are going to try and prove a point here, while expecting to be taken seriously, please keep in mind the software advantages that Apple now has to offer. It seems to me that PC hardware manufacturers would win if they used Mac software. Which would not be an entirely bad thing.

Apple has always been more than just hardware. Apples software is the icing on the cake. To be taken seriously, don't forget the fact that OSX and it's Apps far exceed what windows has to offer. Especially now.

Have you ever wondered why Microsoft, with so much market share, seems to be constantly following Apples lead when it comes to software?

Sure, take the Kia over the Honda, to use a car analogy. You'll get more features, but you'll also pay more in the long run for the sub-Apple quality of the product you are buying while also needing to replace it sooner.

When Longtooth is finally available, tell me why it was worth the wait.

Really, reward competition and reward yourselves. It may be going against the grain, but if change weren't good we would never have gotten to where we are today. Especially when the alternative is offering so much.

What is the advantage in rewarding MS right now? they really haven't done anything noteworthy in 20 years have they? 10 years ago they introduced Windows '95. Everything since has been what?

And for current Apple users, especially the Powerbook users, the iBook does matter. So complaining about a G5 iBook being introduced with the G5 Powerbook is silly. The Powerbook is always going to be better. But not everyone needs everything a Powerbook offers. That doesn't mean that the iBook should be stuck with a G4 that is going to hurt sales. Was Apple wrong for introducing the G5 iMac? no. Is it a Powermac? no. But it's definately a good reason to go beyond the Mini Mac, even if it does not match the PowerMac lineup.

The best products at reasonable prices. Lately, I see buying a PC as being comaprable to buying a Maybach that has a Yugo engine. Lots of nice features but the engine sucks. Be a smart consumer, take everything into consideration and then tell me why Apple is doomed.

[pcdoctor]

I didn't know that Asus made the ibooks.
I thought it was still Quanta.
Did you guys know what Asus make pc motherboards?
My main windows xp machine has an Asus motherboard.

[desdomg]

Since when has Digitmes had a reliable track record?

Seems to me that they always get stuff wrong!

You guys seem to be taking it as gospel.

[Chryx]

A 1.5Ghz G4 runs at the same performance level and speed as that of a 1.5Ghz G5. The G5 is just a 64-bit version of the G4, which some extra registers and what not?


No, the G5 (PowerPC 970/FX)

1) has the same register layout, but each register is 64bits in size, rather than 32bit
2) has two (rather than one) scalar floating point pipelines.
3) a BANDWIDTHMONSTER(tm) front side bus. (10GB/s PER PROCESSOR)
4) is heavily designed for out-of-order execution (216 instructions in flight at once, peak)

the G4 has
1) a slightly more efficient per clock Altivec implementation, that gets completely slaughtered anyway because
2) a 167Mhz FSB (1.3GB/s)
3) one scalar floating point pipeline
4) is very limited on OOOE resources, 16 instructions in flight, peak

the 74xx and 970 series processors are VERY different in everything but the instructions they run.

[Phinius]

If Apple intends to continue with prices for the iBook that are in the mid to high performance range for the PC market, then putting a G5 in the iBook makes sense. I don't believe that Apple would want to lower the price of the iBooks to better justify the price/performance to potential customers. Instead, it would make more sense for Apple to increase the perceived performance by adding the G5 and therefore increase the price/performance of the product to better position it against the competition. The frequency and bus speed of the G4 is not looking good in comparison to what can be purchased for the same price in the PC notebook market. The bus speed of the Pentium M is about to move up to 533MHz, so the 200MHz bus of the upcoming G4 will look paltry in comparison.

Apple could still differentiate the 12" PowerBook and iBook enough to justify paying more for the PowerBook.

[iCraig]

Would Apple really release an iBook G5 before an eMac G5?

Surely there is a demand for the eMac G5 since alot of education authorities use the G4 eMac and probably wanting to upgrade.

[Phinius]

Releasing G5 iBooks and PowerBooks at the same time seems quite plausible in that the G5s bus speed can run at 1/3 the processors frequency. So, a PowerBook could be at say 1.8GHz with a 666MHz bus and the iBook could run at 1.5GHz with a 533MHz bus. That would help justify the price premium for the PowerBook and also help Apple's notebooks better compete on price/performance against the upcoming 533MHz bus speed of the Pentium-M.

The G4 will go to over 1.5GHz in the next few months, but the bus speed will be limited to 200MHz. That does not look good when competing against Pentium processors that have 400MHz-533MHz bus speeds. Moving the iBooks to a G5 with a 533MHz bus would make them much more attractive to ppotential customers and the price difference for the processors should be neglible for Apple.

[rosalindavenue]

Wasn't this a Page 2 story on Friday? I did not read every single post in this thread, but was there an update or new info that got this story promoted from page 2 to page 1? At the close of business on Friday this story was regarded as a typo by the generally unreliable DigiTimes. Also, over the years, the rumors from the manufacturers have been pretty low quality-- remember the g5 imac rumors from the fall of 2003?

[Electric Monk]

Yes. No. Yes.

:)

[sunilraman]

I didn't know that Asus made the ibooks.
I thought it was still Quanta.
Did you guys know what Asus make pc motherboards?
My main windows xp machine has an Asus motherboard.

asus has been around for quite a while :) their motherboards have been one of the better brands for quite a while too...

good on them, make some sweet stuff for Apple. Asus laptops are pretty good looking too, if you've seen the latest models...

but not as great as a Ti or Alu PowerBook... G5!!! :D

[3Memos]

Isnt it Asustek?

[sunilraman]

.....It may slightly hurt the ego of Powerbook users, but Powerbook users are still going to have plenty to brag about.

Oh, definitely PowerBook users will have a lot to brag about when it comes out :D

[sunilraman]

Isnt it Asustek?

Asustek is like the formal computer name, like "Apple Computers"

Asus is like the common brand name, like Apple or Mac

Not saying that Asus=Apple in anyway ;)

[PPC970FX]

Wasn't this a Page 2 story on Friday? I did not read every single post in this thread, but was there an update or new info that got this story promoted from page 2 to page 1? At the close of business on Friday this story was regarded as a typo by the generally unreliable DigiTimes. Also, over the years, the rumors from the manufacturers have been pretty low quality-- remember the g5 imac rumors from the fall of 2003?

Yeah why is this a page 1 story? I have seen more reliable stuff in the e-mail that I could get money and women by doing nothing.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

True. I'll not be the only one who thinks Apple needs to increase the resolution of their LCD screens while keeping them at the same size. It's becoming harder and harder to work in a 1024x768 environment in OSX.

Isn't that what Exposé is for...? I think 1024x768 is the sweet spot for the 12" screens. If you need a bigger screen (with a higher resolution) you should get a 15"/17" Powerbook... A bit better resolution on the 14" might be nice, though, but I would still go for the 12" for portability.

<crossing fingers>A 12" iBook G5@1.2-1.4GHz with a 300-350MHz FSB and 256+512 MB RAM and preinstalled Tiger, with the same solid casing would be a perfect replacement for my 12" iBook G4@800MHz this summer, and probably still be relativly cool and at the same price as the current line.</crossing fingers>

I don't get my hopes too high, though. I think Apple's having a hard time getting those hot little G5-babies into the form factor of the PowerBooks and the iBooks, but to say that the plastic in the iBooks would melt and therefore only the metal PowerBooks could get G5s are kind of stupid. If the processor (and other hardware) could melt an iBook casing the equally hot PowerBook would set fire to your sofa, not to mention the damage it would do to someones lap. Not very likely.

[Pringolian]

The Portable G5 is going to take place during 2005, the reasons:

Pentium with 533mhz FSB and without the megahertz myth getting dragged up the Mobile Pentiums are running at something like 2.2Ghz now. There are going to be major shifts in both PC and Mac world during 2005.

Tiger 10.4 Release - I expect Apple will want their pro-range portables to be running in 64-bits for the new OS. G5 power, more memory but more to do with marketing and making money than anything else.

Increased memory in laptops, bigger memory chips?
With 2005 being the year of HD, it is likely we are going to see advances in the PowerBook and the PowerMac also. Motion requires 512mb of memory (1Gb if possible), larger amounts of memory are an increasing trend with music/video/Digital content creation.

Stupid unwarranted quotes about the G5 being the mother of all thermal challenges, like we didn't know. Why are you trying to force us into buying G4 stock?

The PBook life cycle. It took 2 years to get a G4 into portable form, I don't think the G5 will exceed that and the 2 year deadline is fast approaching. The new IBM facility is probably gearing up to start switching to G5 in most of Apples computers (eMac and PowerBook followed by iBook at the end of 2005?).

These are all part predictions and part facts/info from other sources, but that's all these 'RUMOUR' forums are about. It's just quite annoying sometimes to see the cynics on these threads when Apple are an amazing company and very capable of releasing a portable G5 within 2 years of the chips initial release (WWDC05).

All I can say is Apple know what they are doing and everyones gonna be satisfied whatever they release. They are due to upgrade the PowerBooks very soon (G4 Revision on Tuesday, G5 at WWDC?

[Littleodie914]

Hmm... I'm still kinda leaning towards the fact that it's a typo... I mean unless these guys have absolutely no knowledge of the importance of a G5 laptop, wouldn't they have mentioned something about this? It's been a huge topic since the G5 Powermac came out, possibly the most heavily-awaited product in Apple's history :eek:

::yet they say nothing...:: :confused:

[Macmaniac]

Apple does have a problem because the high end iBooks are eating into the 12in PB sales. We sell a lot of laptops and most of them are iBooks, people see them as a better value. Maybe the G5 is referring to generation 5, this could be an internal reference to a product update, but I doubt its a G5.
Although since I'm going off to college this year I would love a G5 PB:)

[quagmire]

Yeah, but I'd like to upgrade before the end of the year. Those dual-core chips aren't sampling until the second half at the earliest. Guess they could potentially make their way into a PB before Christmas maybe, MWSF '06 anyone?

I would like to know the reason this was bumped to Page 1. MOSR are claiming maybe 2 G4 revs before we see a G5 PB. And they're claiming (http://www.macosrumors.com/20050115.php) the next rev. will be using a 7447B chip and not the new 7448 e600 core.

When was MOSR even close of being accurate? If the Powerbooks don't get updated within the next 3 weeks, I will be suspicous of something is happening to the Pbook line. The last batch of Powerbook G3's were around for more then a year and then the G4 showed up. Also, if the Powerbooks aren't updated within those 3 weeks that shows me why is there a big problem with a simple G4 update? Are the 7447B really giving freescale problems?

[Chip NoVaMac]

Apple does have a problem because the high end iBooks are eating into the 12in PB sales. We sell a lot of laptops and most of them are iBooks, people see them as a better value. Maybe the G5 is referring to generation 5, this could be an internal reference to a product update, but I doubt its a G5.
Although since I'm going off to college this year I would love a G5 PB:)

This is why i am surprised to see iB G5s mentioned for such an early sale. I would have expected them to come next year at the earliest. I would have expected the iBs to have dual core for two years before going to the G5.

[MikeBike]

- Every release of a new OS from Apple also comes with a new release of the GCC compiler. Apple, then, releases these changes to the open source community. IBM has a new compiler for the G5 chip. The GCC compiler still has room for improvement. So, we can expect that the next OS will be faster across-the-board for the G4 and G5. ( Well, that's my opinion anyway. )

- Apple may have some contractual arrangement with IBM to use so many of the G5 chips. So, a Powerbook G5 might come before a Dual-Core Powerbook. IBM, should be directing, at least their AIX( Unix ) developers to buy Apple Powerbooks, with the release of a G5 Powerbook.

- When I compare a G4 1.5 to the G5 1.8 in the IMac, the G4 holds up well, except for the FSB. But, the new DualCore chip should have a much faster bus.

- I personally Still Hope to see a Dual-Core G4 Powerbook for sale.

- Question: Does Apple sell enough laptops, now, to come out with Both?
A Dual-Core G4 Extreme Powerbook and a single Core G5 Powerbook?
Although I can't understand why you'd want a single core G5 over a dual-core G4, the G5 advocates are still moaning for one. So, Apple, if you can, sell both.

[morkintosh]

when they get a G5 out of the door, the profits will soar again, and they know it.

ummm... check the earnings, profits are soaring right now.

[obeygiant]

The $1599 PowerBook 12" has no firewire 800 and only 1 firewire 400 port and it costs three times as much the mini. Given this, you'd think they include 2 ports of firewire 400 or 800.

well, the powerbook has a screen!...and a keyboard.

[macridah]

Apple likes throwing smoke screens all the time ... at first they downplayed flash iPods, said they wouldn't go into sub 800 PC's: now ... iPod Shuffle and mac mini. All of a sudden, mother of all thermal challenges is suddenly solved and G5 notebooks soon? End of Q2 is about WWDC. 2005 will be a year to remember for macheads.

oh ... Steve downplayed an Apple PDA ... will that emerge. Probably not in my opinion, but an iPod with even more PDA features: possible.