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MacBytes
Jan 14, 2005, 03:18 PM
Category: Opinion/Interviews
Link: Apple harvest (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20050114161845)
Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by Mudbug

24C
Jan 14, 2005, 03:31 PM
"However, as low as the starting price is, it still costs about $100 more than similarly configured PCs from Gateway, Hewlett-Packard and others, according to analysts and price checks. The price delta increases as the typical equipment on PCs is factored in.

When market researcher IDC added in "the stuff you'd want," the final price came to $1,300, said IDC analyst Roger Kay"

Jeepers, even CNET have consulted big name budget PC builders, and if IDC employ this type of expert long term, it's a wonder they'll stay in business or the businesses advised by them:-)

nagromme
Jan 14, 2005, 04:03 PM
Funny... when I shop at Dell.com and try to buld a $499 box, it has no VRAM, no Firewire, no software bundle (iLife 05 has no value??) and EITHER a CD burner OR a DVD player but not both.

So apparently Apple can't just be better AND cheaper than Dell, they also have to be cheaper than the CHEAPEST PCs... and still better than Dell.

To get a Mini up to $1300 you have to be pretty much on a mission to do so. And you have to be ignoring what you can DO with a Mini, right out of the box, vs. what you can DO with that Gateway. Other than smile starry-eyed at the MHz sticker.

24C
Jan 14, 2005, 04:15 PM
snip...
To get a Mini up to $1300 you have to be pretty much on a mission to do so. And you have to be ignoring what you can DO with a Mini, right out of the box, vs. what you can DO with that Gateway. Other than smile starry-eyed at the MHz sticker.

When I got to this bit I nearly wet my pants, what do you have to do in this marketplace to get some sort of recognition. We live in hope that these guys aren't running the planet ;-)

wrldwzrd89
Jan 14, 2005, 06:30 PM
These guys just don't get it. Apple's the ONLY PC manufacturer that puts graphics cards that don't use that horrid shared memory in ALL of their machines. That gives Apple an unmatched advantage, and it requires PC price comparisons to be with custom-built machines since there's no way to get the same configurations that Apple offers pre-built from the PC makers. These PC people have a bad habit of underestimating Apple's software bundles - it is these that give the Mac its biggest advantage.

crazedbytheheat
Jan 14, 2005, 08:18 PM
When market researcher IDC added in "the stuff you'd want," the final price came to $1,300

Umm, yeah. I priced out the top of the line Mac mini with the every item upgraded (1 GB RAM, airport extreme, bluetooth, wireless keyboard/mouse, etc.) it comes to $1350. I'm sure lots of people *want* all this stuff, but what kind of statement is that. If I really price out what I want (dual G5 2.5 w/ 8GB RAM and 30 monitor) it pretty freaking expensive as well.

Ironically, when I first went to the article I told my wife: "these guys are usually MS clones, but this it looks like they are impressed." Oh, well, they get paid (off) and we all get cool new Macs. Just wish I hadn't bought my daughter that eMac last fall. :-D

wowoah
Jan 15, 2005, 05:10 PM
Don't be so quick to bash the article everyone. What most people have forgotten is that the mini doesn't come with a display, and even the cheapest Apple display costs a good $900. Sure you could go shop at BestBuy and get a cheapo display, but most people who pop into an Apple store (especially the computer illiterate ones) want a one-stop-shopping experience, and chances are the sales staff at Apple aren't going to be sending their customers over to get a Samsung screen. When you factor in the lack of display, keyboard, and mouse, the $1300 price is not that far off.

That said, I still think the mini idea is a GREAT idea as a switcher magnet. Most PC users who want to try out the mac already have everything, so they could easily just buy a mini and plug it in where the PC used to be. What the mini is NOT is a computer for first timers or people with really obsolete, outdated equipment, since for what it would cost to get the mini functional, you could easily get an eMac or an iMac. I think that's kinda what the cnet article was trying to say.

Sun Baked
Jan 15, 2005, 05:44 PM
If Apple can insert this machine into the education arena to stop the market share slide -- then is serves it's purpose and will be a bigger hit than anyone can imagine.

The education area doesn't quite need the same massive specs as the consumer channel.

And Apple is getting slammed by the super low priced PCs, and the leased equipment.

---

Heck there are a lot of Mac users out there still where this will be an upgrade.

Plus we still get new members stopping by looking for a used machine in this price range.

This machine will allow them to buy a new machine for the same price as a used G3 or old G4.

24C
Jan 15, 2005, 06:29 PM
Don't be so quick to bash the article everyone. What most people have forgotten is that the mini doesn't come with a display, and even the cheapest Apple display costs a good $900. Sure you could go shop at BestBuy and get a cheapo display, but most people who pop into an Apple store (especially the computer illiterate ones) want a one-stop-shopping experience, and chances are the sales staff at Apple aren't going to be sending their customers over to get a Samsung screen. When you factor in the lack of display, keyboard, and mouse, the $1300 price is not that far off.

That said, I still think the mini idea is a GREAT idea as a switcher magnet. Most PC users who want to try out the mac already have everything, so they could easily just buy a mini and plug it in where the PC used to be. What the mini is NOT is a computer for first timers or people with really obsolete, outdated equipment, since for what it would cost to get the mini functional, you could easily get an eMac or an iMac. I think that's kinda what the cnet article was trying to say.

Get your point, but Apple never says it's a first time buyer machine, this has always been the eMac/iMac arena. IMO the Mac mini is more flexible in it's choice of periherals, hence the BYODKM ethos. OK it's flawed for first timers and newbies who walk into an Apple store plugging higher priced peripherals, but in the UK where they are not too prevalent(2 todate), a good choice for a first timer might by John Lewis Department Stores, assuming their buyers have ordered enough stock, because they also cater for the Windows market and there are LCD screens & keyboards cheap enough to undercut a comparable eMac.

As far as older Mac model upgraders go (Beige G3 in my case), in the UK we'd pay 339 for a Mac mini, but the iLife 05 and Panther is a 147 value, so that's not bad at 192 nett cheaper than a processor & graphics card upgrade.

wrldwzrd89
Jan 15, 2005, 09:10 PM
As far as older Mac model upgraders go (Beige G3 in my case), in the UK we'd pay 339 for a Mac mini, but the iLife 05 and Panther is a 147 value, so that's not bad at 192 nett cheaper than a processor & graphics card upgrade.
Excuse me for not being enlightened when it comes to UK things, but what does nett mean as used in 192 nett cheaper?

24C
Jan 16, 2005, 05:41 AM
Excuse me for not being enlightened when it comes to UK things, but what does nett mean as used in 192 nett cheaper?

Sorry about the confusion, should have been a "," between nett and cheaper. Nett in a UK sense? means the actual cost after deductions from a "gross" starting point. So in my case, if I could upgrade a BeigeG3, to Panther and iLife05 I'd be down 148 (UK cost of these packages), before I even started, so it's only 192 more for Mac mini.

wrldwzrd89
Jan 16, 2005, 05:52 AM
Sorry about the confusion, should have been a "," between nett and cheaper. Nett in a UK sense? means the actual cost after deductions from a "gross" starting point. So in my case, if I could upgrade a BeigeG3, to Panther and iLife05 I'd be down 148 (UK cost of these packages), before I even started, so it's only 192 more for Mac mini.
Actually, inserting a comma would have made me even more confused...but thanks for clearing that up.

EDIT: I'm stupid, I didn't read the original post that prompted this exchange in the first place. There should have been a comma where you suggested one.

solvs
Jan 17, 2005, 12:31 AM
So many people are missing the point of this. I have a friend who already has a good monitor, speakers, and USB scroll mouse. But it's connect to a crappy computer. Take a Mini, add a $29 kb, maybe upgrade the RAM to 512MB, and it's perfect for what she needs. Better than the $900 Dell she bought awhile ago, and better than the Dell she would have replaced it with.

As I keep saying, it isn't for some of us... but for people like her, it's perfect.

shamino
Jan 17, 2005, 02:03 PM
To get a Mini up to $1300 you have to be pretty much on a mission to do so.
No. You just have to specify a large LCD display as part of "the stuff you'd want".

shamino
Jan 17, 2005, 02:08 PM
Don't be so quick to bash the article everyone. What most people have forgotten is that the mini doesn't come with a display, and even the cheapest Apple display costs a good $900. Sure you could go shop at BestBuy and get a cheapo display, but most people who pop into an Apple store (especially the computer illiterate ones) want a one-stop-shopping experience, and chances are the sales staff at Apple aren't going to be sending their customers over to get a Samsung screen.
I wouldn't be so quick to judge.

I've a friend who works in an Apple store. After the mini ships, I'll ask him what the policy is when a customer asks for a mini with a display. My gut feeling is that they will make a point of mentioning the fact that you can get very good CRT based displays for very little money from a large number of sources, including Best Buy, CompUSA, and Staples.

If someone insists on one-stop shopping, my guess is that they'll be directed to the eMac, which is a marginally better computer with built-in 17" display for $300 more.

I would be shocked if the Apple Store employees try to convince you to buy a $1000+ display for a $500 computer. I honestly can't imagine this happening.

solvs
Jan 18, 2005, 07:13 AM
Not to mention the fact that Apple sells CRTs, just not their own. Look under displays. Plus, if you're buying from CompUSA, they sell all sorts of displays.

3Memos
Jan 18, 2005, 07:16 AM
For all the features that they want, they might as well buy a iMac G5. Some people. :rolleyes: