classical music discussion

[acidrock]

i was wondering what you guys think about classical music? What are your favorite composers, what are your favorite orchestras.

[Loge]

Difficult to know where to begin, but my personal favourite composers are

Janacek
Wagner
Tippett
Bach
Mahler
Prokofiev
Chopin

(and many others) :p

[Duff-Man]

Duff-Man says....I like some of the "heavier" composers - Stravinsky, Bartok for example....as well I also enjoy some of the 20th century stuff like Michael Nyman, Stockhausen, Gavin Bryars....oh yeah!

[Littleodie914]

Hmm... I've never actually listened to/been interested in classical music... I mean of course I've heard it, but never unless it was on a movie or in music class or something. How do you guys listen to it? Like when you're reading... Working at your computer... Napping... Just hanging around?

[Macaddicttt]

I really love all the really, "big," romantic (as in the artistic movement, not as in love necessarily) composers. My favorite among those (well, I guess among all composers) is Mahler. I really, really love Mahler. I can't get enough of his fifth. Oh, and his second is really great, too. Well, really all his stuff is pretty great. I really like the Bernstein recordings of his symphonies, although I have some of them by other conductors.

Besides Mahler, I really like Debussy (favorite of his is "Pour le Piano: I, II, and III), Ravel, Stravinsky, Bartok, Dvorak (I wish I could get that little upside-down circumflex over the r in this forum) among others that I can't quite remember right now. I also am a big fan of opera, although I've only had the opportunity to actually see one performed (stupid, uncultured parents...). I really like Pagliacci, not too long... The one I saw performed was Don Carlo. I liked that one a lot, too.

Lately, my girlfriend has got me listening to Bach and Mozart and other earlier things. I guess I'm gaining a taste for them. Unfortunately, I really admire Bach and Mozart when I listen to them or see a score, but I don't enjoy it as much as the other composers I mentioned earlier. I mean, I'll admit that it's genius, but I just don't really like listening to it that much.

If I think of more classical stuff that I like, I'll add more later. There always seems to be too much to remember.

[Macaddicttt]

How do you guys listen to it? Like when you're reading... Working at your computer... Napping... Just hanging around?

Umm...yes. All of the above. Really, I would prefer just listening to it straight, with no distractions, but, to be honest, some classical music is pretty hard to sit completely still through. Every once in a while, I'll just lay on my bed and listen to something, just concentrating on the music. I do listen to classical music while reading and working at my computer, etc., but one of two things usually ends up happening. I either feel bad that I'm not giving my full attention to such a great work of art, or I get too distracted by the music to really get anything done.

I really like going to the symphony, because you can watch the performers and keep your attention going that way. Plus live music is always far superior to recorded (well, unless the musicians aren't very good...). But I never get to go to the symphony. My family's not too much into the whole classical music thing. I've always had to go alone or with friends.

I guess really, I just listen to classical music whenever I get the craving for it. I usually listen to "popular" music, but there are lots of times when I just have to listen to a certain symphony or a particular opus or whatever. So I listen while I'm doing whatever I happen to be doing when the craving strikes.

[Macaddicttt]

Come on, no one else listens to classical music? I find that hard to believe...

[Pittsax]

Come on, no one else listens to classical music? I find that hard to believe...
I listen to it all the time. Usually when I'm working, I either have classical or film music playing (the closest thing). I really can't work with any music with lyrics, because I tend to get distracted by them.

I also like the more Romantic period or 20th century composers. In fact, I'm listening to The Pines of Rome as I'm typing this (Ottorino Respighi). I'm also a fan of Holst, Mussorgsky, Stravinsky, and Bartok (Concerto for Orchestra is one of my all-time favorites).

I also like a lot of more modern composers, like Aaron Copeland and Leonard Bernstein. Plus, I listen to a lot of modern concert band music (I played all through HS and college).

[Macaddicttt]

I'm also a fan of Holst, Mussorgsky, Stravinsky, and Bartok (Concerto for Orchestra is one of my all-time favorites).

Oh yeah, I forgot Holst. I love Holst. One of my friends is trying to get me into Mussorgsky, but I haven't had a chance to really listen to any of his stuff.

[Loge]

Oh yeah, I forgot Holst. I love Holst. One of my friends is trying to get me into Mussorgsky, but I haven't had a chance to really listen to any of his stuff.

In that case, check out Boris Godonov (in the orginal version) - they don't come much better.

[jbembe]

Hector Berlioz "Symphony Fantastique" (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playlistId=17227477)

[Pittsax]

Hector Berlioz "Symphony Fantastique" (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playlistId=17227477)
Great piece! Made even more interesting by the fact that it's about a guy's opium trip.

[BillMorris]

Hi,
I am glad to see that everyone is talking about this subject. I
really enjoy newer contemporary classical music, especially
the works of Micheal Daugherty, John Zorn, and Michael Shelley.
If you are interested there are some really great sites and recording companies that are starting to feature the music of young/emerging composers:

www.newtertianrecordings.com
www.innova.mu
www.tzadik.com

Thanks everyone. Take care and support new music.
BillMorris

[Loge]

A few other recommendations of mine

Nielsen - Symphony No 4 (The inextenguishable)
Prokofiev - Piano Concerto No 5, Symphony No 7
Ravel - Piano Concerto in G, String Quartet
Janacek - Glagolitic Mass, Sinfonietta
Stravinsky - Symphony in Three Movements, The Rake's Progress
Mahler - Symphony No 7
Villa-Lobos - Bachianas Brasileiras

Enjoy :)

[MacSA]

Some of my recommendations

Beethoven, Piano Concerto No.5
Sibelius, Violin Concerto
Dvorak, Violin Concerto
Prokofiev, Piano Concerto 1 & 3
Brahms, Piano Concerto No. 2
Robert Schumann, Piano Concerto

:D

[indifference]

is an effect of classical music being able to sing a song by ear that is in a forigen language? I sang No Sikali Africa (SP) by ear, at a concert.

[Pittsax]

Hi,
I am glad to see that everyone is talking about this subject. I
really enjoy newer contemporary classical music, especially
the works of Micheal Daugherty, John Zorn, and Michael Shelley.
If you are interested there are some really great sites and recording companies that are starting to feature the music of young/emerging composers:

www.newtertianrecordings.com
www.innova.mu
www.tzadik.com

Thanks everyone. Take care and support new music.
BillMorris
The Metropolis Symphony is actually one of my favorite contemporary works. I also have Michael Daugherty's American Icons CD, which has some great pieces as well.

[WinterMute]

Duff-Man says....I like some of the "heavier" composers - Stravinsky, Bartok for example....as well I also enjoy some of the 20th century stuff like Michael Nyman, Stockhausen, Gavin Bryars....oh yeah!

Gavin was my Music lecturer at Uni in the 80's, he was a really original thinker, and a mean Jazz Bassist too, I loved his dry sense of humour.

Saw him a couple of years ago at the South Bank during a performance of "jesus Blood Never Failed Me Yet".

Nyman's work for film has been excellent, his partnership with Peter Greenaway was inspirational.

I have a soft spot for Steve Reich too.

[Duff-Man]

I have a soft spot for Steve Reich too.Duff-Man says...ah yes...I like a lot of his stuff as well. I recall when "Music for 18 Musicians" first came out - ECM at the time was pressing some of their stuff running at 45 rpm at that was one of them...we sometimes liked to slow it down to 33 rpm...very interesting effect.....oh yeah!

[indifference]

I am doing a contract in classical music and music therapy over the summer with Arun Chundra an orchestra conductor. I was thinking of using the NPR (National Public Radio) book to collecting classical music, but does anyone have any other ideas of what I could do? To me, that seems to be the best.

[indifference]

hey I recommend this peace, Schwarz Conductors, Mahler 1. Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra. This is the most beautiful I've heard.

Does anyone know anything about more Malher with the french horn? That is why I like Mahler so much, there are few conductors that use it.

[stubeeef]

While I am not schooled in music or have knowledge to why I like what I like, I enjoy classical alot.

I usually find myself poping Vivaldi's Four Seasons on (of course I like the london symphony versions of pink floyd-does that count?). My wife was a voice major and is now a music teacher-she loves Mozart anything.

For those with surround music systems, you need to put on some powerful classical and crank it, you will be impressed and surprised! Someone else here can recommend a good one to try this on.

[indifference]

do you guys find listening to classical music before sleeping helps you fall a sleep?

[Macaddicttt]

do you guys find listening to classical music before sleeping helps you fall a sleep?

I've never really tried it. I mean, I've fallen asleep to classical music before, but that was more a product of me being tired. Listening to anything usually helps me fall asleep. It really doesn't matter what. Well, I guess it does matter a little. It can't be music I really hate...

[cluthz]

I have listened a lot to Edvard Grieg, the only famous norwegian composer.
Much of his work is very easy to get into like "The Hall of the Mountain King", "Morning" and " Anitra's Dance".
I also enjoy listening to Mussorgskys "Pictures at an exhibition" and I have a few different recordings of the "Goldberg Variations" I really like.

[indifference]

who knows anything about the pice by Steve Reich "music for 28 musicons"?

[Macaddicttt]

I just remembered another great piece. Carmina Burana by Carl Orff. It's absolutely huge. I love it. It's a whole bunch of Latin and High Middle German texts put to music. It's great. The first movement, O Fortuna, is used all the time in commercials, movie trailers, etc. I believe it was most recently in a Capital One commercial...

[Duff-Man]

who knows anything about the pice by Steve Reich "music for 28 musicons"?Duff-Man says....I think you mean "Music for 18 Musicians" and it has already been mentioned earlier in this thread...was there something in particular you wanted to add or ask about this piece? .....oh yeah!

[indifference]

hey actually I already had it, but it was not one of my favorites

[Pittsax]

BUMPAGE....

I also enjoy listening to Mussorgskys "Pictures at an exhibition" and I have a few different recordings of the "Goldberg Variations" I really like.

I really like Mussorgsky's "Pictures." Have you heard the original piano version (Mussorgsky wrote it for piano, and Maurice Ravel orchestrated it)? I think you'd like it since you said you liked the Goldberg Variations. I like that work too, although everytime I hear it, I think of Hannibal Lector.

[xsedrinam]

Come on, no one else listens to classical music? I find that hard to believe...

Indeed. That's like saying no one else watches cartoons or old Westerns. That's where most of us got our classical appreciation. Ask "Joe six pack", on the street to sing a few bars of the William Tell Overture, and you'd get a blank stare. Then ask him to whistle the opening theme to The Lone Ranger and, well, there ya go ;)
X

[Macaddicttt]

Indeed. That's like saying no one else watches cartoons or old Westerns. That's where most of us got our classical appreciation. Ask "Joe six pack", on the street to sing a few bars of the William Tell Overture, and you'd get a blank stare. Then ask him to whistle the opening theme to The Lone Ranger and, well, there ya go ;)
X

I do listen to classical music, but I must admit that all my knowledge of the Barber of Seville comes from Bugs Bunny... :p

[jbembe]

I do listen to classical music, but I must admit that all my knowledge of the Barber of Seville comes from Bugs Bunny... :p

Same here! Kill the waabiit Kill the waaabbiiiitt!! :eek:

[devman]

I like Chopin Fantasie Impromptu.

[tombo]

I'm a viola player,

I like loads of classical music.

My favourites at the mo are William Walton's Facade, Ravel's string quartet, and I've just got back into some recordings of Bach's Cello Suites played by Nibuko Imai on viola.

As for someone's quote earlier about liking Stravinsky and Bartok, then saying they liked 20th Century stuff like Nyman etc.. well Stravinsky and Bartok are both 20th Century too! The helped define 20th Century music, Stravinsky especially!

[indifference]

I heard that classical music helps with math?

[xsedrinam]

I heard that classical music helps with math?

It IS math! Take a ride on anything, Bach, like The Brandenburg Conciertos, and you'll come out immersed with an appreciation of 16ths, counterpoint, interval training and how the notation fits, mathmatically, within context, cadence and chord progression. Bach was a math genius. I'm sure he would have used a Mac ;)
X

[Pittsax]

It IS math! Take a ride on anything, Bach, like The Brandenburg Conciertos, and you'll come out immersed with an appreciation of 16ths, counterpoint, interval training and how the notation fits, mathmatically, within context, cadence and chord progression. Bach was a math genius. I'm sure he would have used a Mac ;)
X
Great points.

Another great example (IMHO, of course) of mathematics in music is the first movement of Bartok's Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta. It's an extremely dense piece of music that's playing with tritones, intervals, and he even sneaks the Fibonacci Sequence in there!

[wkw]

Any of you guys ever listen to Frank Zappa's orchestral works? Its quite good. I think he was a fantastic composer. Check out his Yellow Shark album. He also did some interesting projects with the London Symphony Orchestra.

bill

[Pittsax]

Any of you guys ever listen to Frank Zappa's orchestral works? Its quite good. I think he was a fantastic composer. Check out his Yellow Shark album. He also did some interesting projects with the London Symphony Orchestra.

bill
I have the LSO Zappa album with Bob in Dacron, Herb and Moe's Vacation, Pedro's Dowery, etc. They're pretty bizarre, but good at the same time.

[xsedrinam]

Any of you guys ever listen to Frank Zappa's orchestral works? Its quite good. I think he was a fantastic composer. Check out his Yellow Shark album. He also did some interesting projects with the London Symphony Orchestra.

bill

My son's helping me learn to "appreciate" Metallica. I can hang with them longer than with some of the Impressionistic composers already listed. Twelve tone listening is a trip with a stretch, but all types of music should be appreciated at least, within context.
X

[wrldwzrd89]

I'm a classical music fan. I'm not very picky about the composer - in fact, I don't really pay much attention to the different classical music composers, since I like them all the same. I really should look into downloading classical music off of iTMS...

[Loge]

It IS math! Take a ride on anything, Bach, like The Brandenburg Conciertos, and you'll come out immersed with an appreciation of 16ths, counterpoint, interval training and how the notation fits, mathmatically, within context, cadence and chord progression. Bach was a math genius. I'm sure he would have used a Mac ;)
X

Yes, the excellent works by Bach are too numerous to mention. But I would definitely recommend the Well Tempered Clavier (either on piano or harpsichord) and the B Minor Mass.

Also the relationship of Bach's music to mathematics is explored in the book by Douglas R. Hofstadter - Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid. I haven't read it yet, though I do mean to get round to it.

[Macaddicttt]

Yes, the excellent works by Bach are too numerous to mention. But I would definitely recommend the Well Tempered Clavier (either on piano or harpsichord) and the B Minor Mass.

Also the relationship of Bach's music to mathematics is explored in the book by Douglas R. Hofstadter - Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid. I haven't read it yet, though I do mean to get round to it.

Even more into mathematics here, the Well-Tempered Clavier was written for pretty much just to prove that he had found a solution to a mathematical question that had plagued musicians.

To get all the notes of the scale, multiply the frequency of the root note by odd integers and then move it to the right octave. Multiply it by three and bring it down an octave, you get the fifth. Multiply it by five and bring it down two octaves, you get the major third. Multiply it by seven and bring it down a few octaves (don't know exactly how many) and you have the minor seventh, etc.

But if you do this, you can only play in a few keys with one tuning. This is kind of hard to explain, but if anyone knows the circle of fifths, it will be easier. So if you start on a C and then go up a mathematically perfect fifth, you get a G. If you go up a mathematically perfect fifth from that, you get a D. If you keep going, you will never end up back at a C. The closest you can get is a B#, which is not the same. Here's the sequence:

C-G-D-A-E-B-F#-C#-G#-D#-A#-E#-B#

So if you do this mathematically perfect, you end up with a B#, which is about a quarter tone away from the C that you started on. What Bach did was take this quarter tone and distribute it among all twelve of the pitches. In this way, one could play in every key without having to retune the instrument. The Well-Tempered Clavier (an instrument tuned in this way is called well-tempered) is a piece that goes into all twelve keys and was written to prove that Bach had found the answer.

If anyone here plays the guitar, or any other fretted instrument, you'll know that this problem hasn't be solved for you and you get problems being in tune.

So anyway, yes, music is math.

(And what's wrong with the Well-Tempered Clavier on clavier? :p )

[xsedrinam]

Even more into mathematics here, the Well-Tempered Clavier was written for pretty much just to prove that he had found a solution to a mathematical question that had plagued musicians.

To get all the notes of the scale, multiply the frequency of the root note by odd integers and then move it to the right octave. Multiply it by three and bring it down an octave, you get the fifth. Multiply it by five and bring it down two octaves, you get the major third. Multiply it by seven and bring it down a few octaves (don't know exactly how many) and you have the minor seventh, etc.

But if you do this, you can only play in a few keys with one tuning. This is kind of hard to explain, but if anyone knows the circle of fifths, it will be easier. So if you start on a C and then go up a mathematically perfect fifth, you get a G. If you go up a mathematically perfect fifth from that, you get a D. If you keep going, you will never end up back at a C. The closest you can get is a B#, which is not the same. Here's the sequence:

C-G-D-A-E-B-F#-C#-G#-D#-A#-E#-B#


Interesting enough. But drop one of the seven "modes" in as a backdrop of the picture and try to illustrate that on a standard piano keyboard. The Ionian mode (major scale) breaks down in to 12 half tones. More head scratching starts when you see that the completion of the octave from whichever interval will always be in nines. For a simple example in the key of C, and minor third (C-Eb) will be answered with a major six (Eb-C) to complete the octave. The cirlce of fifths can be played but E# is actually F where B# is C. That's why some of the Impressionists and their twelve tone rows looked beyond the box of modality and brought along with it a different sound entirely to the Western ear.
X

[Macaddicttt]

Interesting enough. But drop one of the seven "modes" in as a backdrop of the picture and try to illustrate that on a standard piano keyboard. The Ionian mode (major scale) breaks down in to 12 half tones.

Actually, a mode contains only seven tones (eight if you count the octave), but I think I know what you're getting at.

The cirlce of fifths can be played but E# is actually F where B# is C. That's why some of the Impressionists and their twelve tone rows looked beyond the box of modality and brought along with it a different sound entirely to the Western ear.
X

Yes, but this is impossible without the well-tempered system. The well-tempered system made all twelve half tones equally spaced. The well-tempered system allows for a composer to break out of the frame of standard modes, etc. Playing the circle of fifths where E# is at the same frequency as F and where B# is at the same frequency as C is, in essence, what the well-tempered system does.

[xsedrinam]

Actually, a mode contains only seven tones (eight if you count the octave), but I think I know what you're getting at.

Not quite. There are seven different "Modes" of scales with their respective octaves. If you play the Ioanian Mode and scale (common, Western) an octave (take from middle C to high C on the piano) chromatically (half steps) there are twleve half steps within the octave scale. C,C#,D,D#,E,F,F#,G,G#,A,A#,B,C. That's what I was trying to say.

Yes, but this is impossible without the well-tempered system. The well-tempered system made all twelve half tones equally spaced. The well-tempered system allows for a composer to break out of the frame of standard modes, etc. Playing the circle of fifths where E# is at the same frequency as F and where B# is at the same frequency as C is, in essence, what the well-tempered system does.

Exactly! That's what's so cool about it.
X

[Macaddicttt]

Not quite. There are seven different "Modes" of scales with their respective octaves. If you play the Ioanian Mode and scale (common, Western) an octave (take from middle C to high C on the piano) chromatically (half steps) there are twleve half steps within the octave scale. C,C#,D,D#,E,F,F#,G,G#,A,A#,B,C. That's what I was trying to say.


Actually, I think you have this wrong, although I could be wrong. You can't take a mode chromatically, otherwise all the modes would be the same. What would be the difference between Ionian taken chromatically and Dorian taken chromatically? A mode is a single scale. In the case of the Greek modes, there are seven different modes with seven tones (or eight if you include the octave). If you were to play a chromatic scale, that would be another, different mode.

A mode is a series of intervals that make up a scale. Ionian consists of the following intervals by definition: M2-M2-m2-M2-M2-M2-m2. A chromatic scale would be a different mode with the intervals: m2-m2-m2-m2-m2-m2-m2-m2-m2-m2-m2.

[xsedrinam]

Angh, let's just agree with Julie Andrews: "When you know the notes to sing, you can sing most anything.". :p The point was that with the Ionian, the 1-3-5 chord is based on a M3 not m3 (do-mi) unlike the other Modes. But that's another issue; where were we? I should also add an "I could be wrong".
X

[Loge]

Well I guess I shouldn't have mentioned the Well-tempered Clavier. :o

Anyway, for those that like the piano, how about almost anything by Chopin, but particularly,

Etudes (technical brilliance), and

Nocturnes (for chilling out)?

[Macaddicttt]

Anyway, for those that like the piano, how about almost anything by Chopin, but particularly,

Etudes (technical brilliance), and

Nocturnes (for chilling out)?

I'll second the Nocturnes. There's one that I really like, but I haven't been able to find out which one it is. I heard it a while ago and it was really good.

[Butler Trumpet]

Prokofiev is my all time favorite. My favorite works from him are the two ballet's Cinerella, and Romeo and Julliet. Amazing pieces... if you have never heard, you must.
Then I would say Barber. Everyone loves Adagio for strings, but you shouldnt stop there, listen to Essay no. 1 for Orchestra, or Music for a Scene from Shelly, and Overture to the School for Scandal. Those pieces are truly outstading works.
My third favorite is Eric Whitacre. He is a very young composer, and he writes mostly for choir. He has written a few pieces for wind band, but nothing for orchestra yet. Recenly he just finished an Opera, which is pretty amazing I hear. You should check out his website at http://www.ericwhitacre.com It will change your life.
Mahler is great, I play trumpet so of course I love Mahler 5... who doesnt?
Umm... Copland is great and last but not least, though overlooked a lot I think, is Rachmaninov (also spelled Rachmaninoff) Check out his 4 piano concertos, especially number 3.

So there, those are my all time favs. as far as "classical" music goes, (though none of them actually wrote classical music, its all Romantic and modern)

If you would actually like Classical music... umm, I would say Beethoven (though he is very late classical / early romantic, so he might not count either) Umm... I guess now that I think about it, Im not a big fan of the classical era. Not to say that I dont enjoy listneing to Mozart and Haydn now and then, but I would rather listen to either the Romantic era.

:)

[Loge]

Prokofiev is my all time favorite. My favorite works from him are the two ballet's Cinerella, and Romeo and Julliet. Amazing pieces... if you have never heard, you must.
Then I would say Barber. Everyone loves Adagio for strings, but you shouldnt stop there, listen to Essay no. 1 for Orchestra, or Music for a Scene from Shelly, and Overture to the School for Scandal. Those pieces are truly outstading works.
My third favorite is Eric Whitacre. He is a very young composer, and he writes mostly for choir. He has written a few pieces for wind band, but nothing for orchestra yet. Recenly he just finished an Opera, which is pretty amazing I hear. You should check out his website at http://www.ericwhitacre.com It will change your life.
Mahler is great, I play trumpet so of course I love Mahler 5... who doesnt?
Umm... Copland is great and last but not least, though overlooked a lot I think, is Rachmaninov (also spelled Rachmaninoff) Check out his 4 piano concertos, especially number 3.

So there, those are my all time favs. as far as "classical" music goes, (though none of them actually wrote classical music, its all Romantic and modern)

If you would actually like Classical music... umm, I would say Beethoven (though he is very late classical / early romantic, so he might not count either) Umm... I guess now that I think about it, Im not a big fan of the classical era. Not to say that I dont enjoy listneing to Mozart and Haydn now and then, but I would rather listen to either the Romantic era.

:)

I agree very much about Prokofiev; my favourites are the symphonies 4, 5, 6, and 7; and the piano concerto number 5, a very unusually structured piece for piano in 5 movements.

Mahler too, I like the 5th, though my favourite is the 7th.

I think in this thread people have used the term "classical" in a very broad sense to also include everything from Bach to the Romantic and Modern eras, though I agree much of it does not fall into the strictly classical era.

[Macaddicttt]

I think in this thread people have used the term "classical" in a very broad sense to also include everything from Bach to the Romantic and Modern eras, though I agree much of it does not fall into the strictly classical era.

Yeah, I'm sorry to say that in terms of music, "classical" is no longer an artistic movement, but a genre...

[Butler Trumpet]

Yeah, I'm sorry to say that in terms of music, "classical" is no longer an artistic movement, but a genre...
I dont really agree with that to much. I like to think of it, as do most Musicologists, as "Artistic Music" or simply "Art Music"

When you spend your life studying and making your living off of "Classical" music, and it becomes the topic of pretty much every conversation, it is best to refer to it as "Artistic Music" or better yet being more specific and refer to it as from its time of composition. (Medieval, Renaissance, Baroque, Classical, Romantic and Modern to name a few)

Just my thoughts :)

And this is just from Western Music... no one yet has listed any kinds of other world music, eastern to african... very much overlooked in almost every conversation on serious music.

[Macaddicttt]

I dont really agree with that to much. I like to think of it, as do most Musicologists, as "Artistic Music" or simply "Art Music"

When you spend your life studying and making your living off of "Classical" music, and it becomes the topic of pretty much every conversation, it is best to refer to it as "Artistic Music" or better yet being more specific and refer to it as from its time of composition. (Medieval, Renaissance, Baroque, Classical, Romantic and Modern to name a few)

Just my thoughts :)

Unfortunately, I don't think it you can get away with calling it "Artistic Music" or "Art Music" because that opens up a whole slew of other problems. The people who make popular music are called "artists" and I'm sure a few people would argue that things like Radiohead are "art" or "artistic" but no one would consider it classical music. I'm not exactly sure how musicologists refer to it, but to 90% of people, classical music means anything from Bach to Philip Glass.

It's definitely a hard problem to solve. It's getting harder and harder to be able to call things by the right names. Unfortunately the "right" names (whatever they may be) are not used and are overruled by the majority until it becomes standard. Words change meaning, and right now it'd be hard to argue that in standard usage classical music does not refer to what you would call "art music."

I definitely appreciate your argument and agree to some extent, but I believe in cases like this, majority rules... :(

[Butler Trumpet]

Unfortunately, I don't think it you can get away with calling it "Artistic Music" or "Art Music" because that opens up a whole slew of other problems. The people who make popular music are called "artists" and I'm sure a few people would argue that things like Radiohead are "art" or "artistic" but no one would consider it classical music.

Yeah you do make a good point with that... there are many different ways of looking at this subject. However, to me I would never consider Britney Spears an "artist". The only people I consider artists in todays pop culture world of music, are the select few that actually write/play there OWN music. The majority of all pop singers, and a smaller number yes, but still a large percentage of all bands these days dont actually write any of there own stuff. Thus I see them only as semi talended individuals that can almost sing/play an instrument. Not real artists. Now I know you can always argue that though it is not the music that they wrote, it still is music and they are producing it, thus it is an art form, but to me I just see the composer/song-writer as more of a real artist.

I guess being brought up in a lifestyle where all I heard was "classical" music, my opinion on this subject might be a bit scewed. Though I never ment in anyway to cause tempers to flair or anyone to get upset, and I am always always always (in the words of Henry Davin Thoreau) open for other peoples points of view. :)

Oh and by the way... what school do you go to in DC? I have a friend that goes to GW... just wondering.

[Pittsax]

My third favorite is Eric Whitacre. He is a very young composer, and he writes mostly for choir. He has written a few pieces for wind band, but nothing for orchestra yet. Recenly he just finished an Opera, which is pretty amazing I hear. You should check out his website at http://www.ericwhitacre.com It will change your life.
I played Ghost Train in college concert band. The train sound effects he creates with the usual band instruments are pretty amazing.

If we're goin to also talk wind band composers, I'd like to mention a few:

David Holsinger -- "In the Spring...At the Time When Kings Go Off to War" is quite simply the most amazing piece I have ever played. And damn difficult as well...

Ron Nelson -- any of his "Holiday" pieces are phenomenal

Eliot Del Borgo -- "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night" is a masterpiece of thematic writing

Frank Ticheli -- Blue Shades, Vesuvius, and An American Elegy (written for Columbine High School) are all wonderful pieces.

And finally, considering the popularity of the Howard Shore scores, I recommend the Lord of the Rings Symphony by Johan De Meij for anyone with even a passing interest in Tolkien.

[Butler Trumpet]

I played Ghost Train in college concert band. The train sound effects he creates with the usual band instruments are pretty amazing.

If we're goin to also talk wind band composers, I'd like to mention a few:

David Holsinger -- "In the Spring...At the Time When Kings Go Off to War" is quite simply the most amazing piece I have ever played. And damn difficult as well...

Ron Nelson -- any of his "Holiday" pieces are phenomenal

Eliot Del Borgo -- "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night" is a masterpiece of thematic writing

Frank Ticheli -- Blue Shades, Vesuvius, and An American Elegy (written for Columbine High School) are all wonderful pieces.

And finally, considering the popularity of the Howard Shore scores, I recommend the Lord of the Rings Symphony by Johan De Meij for anyone with even a passing interest in Tolkien.

Yes... those are some amazing pieces...Especially An American Elegy.... very powerful. My favorite Whitacre piece, is October. In my mind it is the most beautiful piece ever written for wind ensemble. And you know the weird thing? Whitacre doesnt even like to write for instrumental ensembles!!! He would rather write for choir, but geez, he does a great job for band.

My all time favorite wind ensemble composer is Percy Grainger. He has written so many wonderful pieces, like... The Lads of Wamphray March, and Colonial Song, and of course the six movements of Lincolnshire Posey. I just love Grainger... I dont think it gets any better than that. If you dont know The Lads of Wamphray March, I highly suggest going out ASAP and getting a recording of it... I know that The Royal Northern College of Fine Arts has a CD of all of Graingers best works for wind band (catalog #RNCWO-1065*) You should check this out... its a great CD.... Too bad iTunes doesnt have it. iTunes should really contact Eastman, Julliard, IU, Boston Conservatory, Curtis Institute and some other great music schools and get there recordings in the iTunes library. It needs more band literature!!!! Anyway..... thats awesome dude!

[Pittsax]

I like Percy Grainger, but he's frankly not my favorite of the "old school" wind ensemble composers. I actually like the Holst and Vaughn Williams music a bit better (although Holst's two suites and Vaughn Williams' Folk Song Suite are played ad nauseum). I think Holst's Hammersmith is one of the absolute masterpieces of concert band literature.

I mentioned Ron Nelson before, but I forgot to mention his Passacaglia, which is a great piece and a great study, especially for those familiar with Bach's organ music.

[Macaddicttt]

I guess being brought up in a lifestyle where all I heard was "classical" music, my opinion on this subject might be a bit scewed. Though I never ment in anyway to cause tempers to flair or anyone to get upset, and I am always always always (in the words of Henry Davin Thoreau) open for other peoples points of view. :)

Oh and by the way... what school do you go to in DC? I have a friend that goes to GW... just wondering.

No tempers flaring here, just having an nice debate about word usage. :)

And I'm at Georgetown, the one on the hill looking down at GW...

[xsedrinam]

No tempers flaring here, just having an nice debate about word usage. :)

And I'm at Georgetown, the one on the hill looking down at GW...

Actually, I think you're both doing an excellent job at demonstrating the natural tension of bringing "Classical" appreciation in to Post Modernity and its "absence of meaning" context. It's an "iron sharpens iron" thing, so keep talking, please. ;)
X

[Macaddicttt]

Actually, I think you're both doing an excellent job at demonstrating the natural tension of bringing "Classical" appreciation in to Post Modernity and its "absence of meaning" context. It's an "iron sharpens iron" thing, so keep talking, please. ;)
X

I don't think there's much more to be said besides we can't really give a "correct" name to the music we are trying to describe. We just have to use words that will get our meaning across. I think "classical" and "art music" would do either of those adequately. I would suggest using "classical" because I think there'd be less chance of confusion when talking with most people, though.

[Butler Trumpet]

I don't think there's much more to be said besides we can't really give a "correct" name to the music we are trying to describe. We just have to use words that will get our meaning across. I think "classical" and "art music" would do either of those adequately. I would suggest using "classical" because I think there'd be less chance of confusion when talking with most people, though.

Well said, I looked at this page earlier today and couldnt really come up with anything more to say. Either word is fine really, and yes, even I will call it classical music... as to not confuse anyone out there.

[xsedrinam]

Well said, I looked at this page earlier today and couldnt really come up with anything more to say. Either word is fine really, and yes, even I will call it classical music... as to not confuse anyone out there.
On a side not, my girlfriends Dad past away today, very suddenly. So if everyone could keep Kassie Eberle and her family in your prayers I would very much appreciate that. Age 19 is much to young to have your father taken away from you :(

I'm so sorry to hear that, Butler. We'll sure keep all of you in our thoughts and prayers at this difficult time.
X

[Butler Trumpet]

I'm so sorry to hear that, Butler. We'll sure keep all of you in our thoughts and prayers at this difficult time.
X
Thanks a lot, anything will help in a time like this.

[indifference]

ON NPR they reviewed sevearl pieces I liked:

Thomas Newman: Lemony Snickets

Finding Neverland -soundtrack

so these are the most amazing pieces.

nathan

[Macaddicttt]

ON NPR they reviewed sevearl pieces I liked:

Thomas Newman: Lemony Snickets

Finding Neverland -soundtrack

so these are the most amazing pieces.

nathan

I haven't seen either movie so I haven't heard either soundtrack, but I'd be interested to hear them. Are these movies any good, or should I look elsewhere to hear these soundtracks?

[indifference]

I haven't seen either movie so I haven't heard either soundtrack, but I'd be interested to hear them. Are these movies any good, or should I look elsewhere to hear these soundtracks?

I have only heard the soundtracks, the soundtracks were previewed on NPR, I can provide links. the links, they were on NPR. I do not go to the movies or watch TV. I do not listen to comercial radio either, the comercial radio, I do not like the comercials, and I do not want to pay 8 dollars for a movie that may be no good.

[Macaddicttt]

I do not want to pay 8 dollars for a movie that may be no good.

Yeah, I've done that a few too many times... :(

[Stampyhead]

Wow, I wish I had stumbled upon this thread much earlier. After reading through some of these posts I feel like I am back in music theory class!
Anyway, I just wanted to add a plug for the music of Korngold. Most people know his violin concerto, but he wrote a lot of other amazing music. He was best known in this country as a film composer back in the 30's and 40's, but he had a semi-successful career as a symphonic and opera composer back in Germany before he came to America. He was actually somewhat of a child prodigy, he wrote absolutely stunning operas that remind one of Strauss or Mahler, yet were uniquely his own, at the age of 14, 15! His first opera, Violanta, has some amazing music in it. He found, though, as he got older, that people were looking away from the Romantic Era and moving toward a newer, less tonal sound, and his music did not evolve along with popular tastes. Somewhat disillusioned by where his career was going, he moved to American in the early 30's to write film music. Being that he was Jewish, this was a smart move for him and he barely avoided being involved in the Holocaust.
Sorry to go on so much about him, but Korngold is one of my favorite composers and I don't think he gets enough credit. Along with his operas, check out his Abschiedslieder (Goodbye Songs), which are very beautiful, and his one and only Symphony. Both were written later in his life, and both are available on a recording with Sir Edward Downes conducting the BBC Philharmonic.
I could go on all day about all of the classical, opera, and film composers whose music I like, so I should probably stop here.

[Fiveos22]

Janacek


Wow, I would have never imagined that Janacek would come up.... he's among my favorites... however when I look back into my top play count list I see the first two movements of Beethoven's 9th coming out on top.



Here's some more obsucre tracks that are excellent.

Pachelbel - Chaconne in D minor (I think) for Keyboard arranged for orchestra.

Saint-Saens - Phaeton Op.30 (Its a mixture of the prelude to the Holburg Suite and the theme for Batman 6 minutes in)

Shostakovich - Trio Op.67 Allegretto

Osman Kivrak (violist for the Sunrise Quartet) - Koroglu for String Quartet

Philip Glass - String Quartet No. 5 (5th Movement - performed by Kronos Quartet)

[Fiveos22]

Passacaglia

Crap! I knew I forgot one of my favorites...the Handel/Halverson Passacaglia for Violin and Viola. I have a recording of Itzhak Perlman and Pinchas Zukerman performing it (available here (http://www.eichlers.com/details.cfm?Group_ID=427&Product_ID=7002)). I highly recommend it.

[DearTabatha]

If you want to hear the most interesting "serious music" piece ever written, check out "Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima" by Krystof Penderecki -- it will give you nitemares. For something a bit more mainstream classical, I really enjoy Mozart's Symphony 41 "Jupiter" or Beethoven's 3, 7, or 9th Symphonies. The romantic pianists: Schumann, Chopin "Hear Op.25-1", Brahms, Liszt "Hear the Transcendental Etudes", etc.. also some of my favorites. Early 20th century French composers are a good introduction, too: Debussy, Satie, Milhaud.

[ecume]

Definitely look for renaissance and medieval music as it sounds genuinely edgy to our ears in a good way (as opposed to pure classical which can sound bland). For example, check out (for free) Asteria: http://magnatune.com/artists/asteria

some cool composers: dufay, ockeghem, Josquin DesPrez

a lot of try-before-you-buy music services (like magnatune) are starting to specialize in classical and earlier music so you can get an earful without paying a ton for stuff you might not be into after the first listen...

[Pittsax]

If you want to hear the most interesting "serious music" piece ever written, check out "Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima" by Krystof Penderecki -- it will give you nitemares.
I can appreciate Penderecki, and his music fit well in The Shining (I think it was Threnody that was used in the film), but to me most of his music is just downright unlistenable. The same goes for Ligeti. His music worked great in 2001, but on it's own, I just can't sit down and listen to it.

[jefhatfield]

my favorite composer hands down is chopin

i love "turandot" and "the ring" and my favorite singers are placido domingo and sarah brightman

[BillMorris]

Hi Everyone,
I just wanted to let you know that New Tertian Recordings has posted a
new Music Composition Opportunities webpage for March 2005. It lists
all of the important calls and opportunities for musicians and
composers, and will be updated bi-monthly.


You can find all of the information at:


http://www.newtertianrecordings.com


Just follow the links.


Thanks again,
Bill M.