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View Full Version : Destruction of Babylon: the Philistines are back.




skunk
Jan 15, 2005, 12:53 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4177577.stm
Army base 'has damaged Babylon'

Coalition forces in Iraq have caused irreparable damage to the ancient city of Babylon, the British Museum says. Sandbags have been filled with precious archaeological fragments and 2,600 year old paving stones have been crushed by tanks, a museum report claims.

The US Army says the troops based in the city, some 50 miles (80km) south of Baghdad, are well aware of its historical significance. Babylon's Hanging Gardens were among the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World.

Cascades

The legendary gardens featured water diverted from mountain streams cascading down artificial hills built upon stone vaults.

American troops occupied the site in April 2003, initially to protect it from looters and vandals.
Some irony here, I feel...

...John Curtis, author of the museum's report, said this was "tantamount to establishing a military camp around Stonehenge".

"About 300,000 square metres of the surface of the site has been flattened and covered with compacted gravel and sometimes chemically treated," he said. "This will contaminate the archaeological record of the site." He added: "I noted about 12 trenches, one of them 170m long, which had been dug through the archaeological deposits." Mr Curtis, who is curator of the museum's Near East department, also found evidence of fuel leaks.

Awe-inspiring

But US military spokesman Lt Col Steven Boylan said the base, which has around 6,000 troops under Police command, is needed to "further defeat terrorists and insurgents". He told BBC Newshour: "Any of the excavations or earth work that we have done in order to do our operations... was done in consultation with the Babylon museum director and an archaeologist."

At the height of its power, Babylon was an awe-inspiring sight, with two sets of fortified walls surrounding massive palaces and religious buildings. It became one of the most important cities in Mesopotamia, one of the cradles of human civilisation.

Iraq is home to 10,000 archaeological sites.
What does to "further defeat" mean? A little respect for and knowledge of history might have prevented this, and the war, for that matter. What the hell is wrong with these people?



miloblithe
Jan 16, 2005, 09:09 AM
I remember in the pre-war phase one of the arguments used against Sadham was that he was using ancient ruins as anti-aircraft bases, and didn't that prove once again that he was the devil.

On the other hand, I read somewhere that he was also allowing some ruins to fall apart and destroying others, convinced as he was that he, in the long run of history, was the one of the greatest leaders of the region along with Nebadcazer (sp) and so on, and that therefore monuments to him were just as worthwhile.

Dont Hurt Me
Jan 16, 2005, 09:22 AM
God has been crapping on Babylon for centuries after them building the tower and all ;) Maybe those Islam extremist should store all their weapons and bombs and bad guys somewhere else.

skunk
Jan 16, 2005, 09:24 AM
Nebadcazer
That's Nebuchadnezzar to you! ;)
A new Saladin, too, I think.
And Bush is the new Juggernaut.

skunk
Jan 16, 2005, 09:27 AM
God has been crapping on Babylon for centuries after them building the tower and all ;) Maybe those Islam extremist should store all their weapons and bombs and bad guys somewhere else.
Have you any evidence whatsoever that they have ever done so? And does that excuse levelling 5,000 year old ruins to build an army base? :confused:

miloblithe
Jan 16, 2005, 09:30 AM
That's Nebuchadnezzar to you! ;)
A new Saladin, too, I think.
And Bush is the new Juggernaut.

I knew I was spelling it wrong, but I didn't think I'd miss a whole syllable. C'mon brain. Wake up!

Dont Hurt Me
Jan 16, 2005, 09:41 AM
Have you any evidence whatsoever that they have ever done so? And does that excuse levelling 5,000 year old ruins to build an army base? :confused:
Its in the bible somewhere and no.

skunk
Jan 16, 2005, 09:49 AM
Its in the bible somewhere
I don't think it mentions Islamic terrorists.

and no.
Good! :)

blackfox
Jan 16, 2005, 10:45 AM
Skunk, I think you are being a little hard.

The US forces didn't "level" the site, that job has already been done. While I find the situation unfortunate, considering the mess that Iraq is, I believe first concerns should be on present and future Iraq, not the past one.

Strategically, it seems to make sense. If the forces were originally posted to the site for "protection" however dubious, it is definitely in the middle of a dangerous zone, and fortifications to a position are to be expected. It is also perhaps somewhat less likely that you will be fired upon occupying a historical site. I tend not to conflate politics and policy directives with mere military necessity/strategy.

war is messy and hardly dovetails with liberal-morality/ideology. If US forces had not been there, perhaps they would be getting flack for leaving the site unprotected, or perhaps "insurgents" would have taken up positions there, which probably would have spelled it's doom with a cluster-bomb.

The point of these hypotheticals is just to say that in some ways there is always something to complain about in a war, especially one that is not particularily coherent policy-wise and deals with an enemy which does not play by the same rules as we do.

BTW, Milo...IIRC, Saddam did see himself as a modern-day nebuchadnezzar, in that he realized the only effective way to govern/rule the disparate population of Mesopotamia, was to engage in great works and constant wars. Tyranny 101. Despots may be despicable, but they are often smart and pragmatic.

IJ Reilly
Jan 16, 2005, 12:09 PM
Curiously enough, it'd be almost impossible to establish a military base on an historical or archeological site in the United States. I guess our national environmental laws don't apply in Iraq.

blackfox
Jan 16, 2005, 12:57 PM
Curiously enough, it'd be almost impossible to establish a military base on an historical or archeological site in the United States. I guess our national environmental laws don't apply in Iraq.
I'm not sure that is fair IJ.