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View Full Version : Dell dismisses "one-product wonder" iPod as a "fad"


MacBytes
Jan 17, 2005, 09:47 AM
Category: 3rd Party Hardware
Link: Dell dismisses \"one-product wonder\" iPod as a \"fad\" (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20050117104737)
Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by Mudbug

Blue Velvet
Jan 17, 2005, 09:53 AM
A fad: like the Walkman, they say...
Like the yoyo and hula-hoop.

They can say all they like. Fact is, no-one really knows where things may go over the next 5-10 years...

Shame that having a Dell never was cool... I hear the sound of envy.

3Memos
Jan 17, 2005, 09:56 AM
A fad: like the Walkman, they say...
Like the yoyo and hula-hoop.

They can say all they like. Fact is, no-one really knows where things may go over the next 5-10 years...

Shame that having a Dell never was cool... I hear the sound of envy.

Dell had to pay people to use their Dell DJ, as witnessed on Oprah's Favorite Things.

hcuar
Jan 17, 2005, 09:59 AM
Dell had to pay people to use their Dell DJ, as witnessed on Oprah's Favorite Things.

Dell DJ? <nelson voice> haha </end nelson voice>

Blue Velvet
Jan 17, 2005, 09:59 AM
Dell had to pay people to use their Dell DJ, as witnessed on Oprah's Favorite Things.

Tell us more. We don't get that over here unless it's on satellite...

Did Dell pay Oprah for a piece of product placement & puffery?

Bet she's got an iPod, though :D

combatcolin
Jan 17, 2005, 10:01 AM
Walkman a fad??????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????

What has its sales been? SOmething like 300 Million+?

Man Dell are running scared.

macridah
Jan 17, 2005, 10:10 AM
Dell always claims sour grapes, or sour apples in this case. They try to copy the iMac and failed; the tried to copy the iPod, same result; tried to team up with an online music store, same.

Next thing you know, they'll come up with a mac mini wanna be.

zelmo
Jan 17, 2005, 10:14 AM
I think Apple would be ecstatic if the iPod "only" turned out to be a fad on par with the Walkman.
No, the Mac mini isn't going to allow Apple to become the PC leader, but it may help them double their market to 5-6%, maybe more. That's a big enough slice to keep Apple healthy and feeding us with great products for years to come.

Dell? puh-leeease!

wrldwzrd89
Jan 17, 2005, 10:19 AM
Dell's absolutely right about "not being in the same league" as Apple - their target markets couldn't be more different. Dell primarily sells to businesses, while Apple sells mostly to consumers - definition of different leagues right there. I wouldn't expect Dell to be impressed with the Mac mini, given that their prices are more aggressive. However, they're missing the software part of the "Mac equation" - namely iLife and Mac OS X - something PC people are prone to doing. I don't think Dell will be running scared, but they won't be expecting the Mac mini to sell as well as I think it will (it'll become the most popular Mac Apple sells VERY quickly).

Photorun
Jan 17, 2005, 10:24 AM
Dell does this while secretly yanking it in private under his alter to Steve Jobs. Without Apple, Dell wouldn't "innovate" (sic).

bousozoku
Jan 17, 2005, 11:02 AM
Tell us more. We don't get that over here unless it's on satellite...

Did Dell pay Oprah for a piece of product placement & puffery?

Bet she's got an iPod, though :D

Oprah had iPods on one of her "favourite things" episodes and gave everyone in the audience one.

Michael Dell was never about innovation, only profit. He doesn't care to be interesting or different, just rich. He's succeeded.

hcuar
Jan 17, 2005, 11:21 AM
Yes, and people once thought the PCs were a fad as well. This reminds me of Microsofts typical pattern. If you can make something as cool or useful as your competitor, tear it down.

jvaska
Jan 17, 2005, 11:23 AM
Dell: Whooo! We sell to businesses because that's where the money is. We don't know **** about people who live in houses.

paulypants
Jan 17, 2005, 11:29 AM
Dell's new slogans:

"We make crap, and we're proud of it!"

"Dell's not a fad, it's crap 4 life!"

"No one makes crap like Dell, no one."

njmac
Jan 17, 2005, 11:31 AM
Dell had to pay people to use their Dell DJ, as witnessed on Oprah's Favorite Things.

Oprah claims that they ask a company to donate (I think it is about 300) of the items and if a company says no, her producers ask a different company. She gave away iPods a year or two ago.

Mainyehc
Jan 17, 2005, 11:32 AM
Our strategic focus has been on corporations and institutions, and selling them large server clusters and huge SAN installations - the data centre isn't very sexy to write about but, frankly, that's where the money is. Number one is corporations and institutions

Oh is it? Humm... What about Apple, XServe, XSan and Oracle? Oh, Mr. Andy McCue probably hasn't heard of that, maybe he was too busy "not being impressed with the mini" :rolleyes:

Let 'em be unimpressed, the more unimpressed they are, the more they will be taken by surprise. First the iPod, now the Mac platform. As I read somewhere in another thread, Apple seems to be rolling out products like they were playing chess or something. Just look at this diagram posted a few days ago in MacBytes: http://www.nixlog.com/apple/

Add Tiger, iLife, iWork and XServe/XServe RAID/XSan to the equation, and what do you get? If it isn't some attempt at world domination, you tell me what that is! (I know this is all wishful thinking, but admit it, it'd be cool to see Apple dominating this and that market, just like they did with the iPod ;))

3Memos
Jan 17, 2005, 11:38 AM
Oprah claims that they ask a company to donate (I think it is about 300) of the items and if a company says no, her producers ask a different company. She gave away iPods a year or two ago.

It seemed like Dell was trying to clear excess inventory, while at the same time, getting national media attention on the Oprah show. Poor teachers, I bet half of them would have no idea what to do with those gawd-awful DJs.

Chaszmyr
Jan 17, 2005, 12:06 PM
Does the CEO of Dell not realize that their "sustainable business model" is only sustainable as long as they have Apple to borrow ideas from? :p

tYNS
Jan 17, 2005, 12:16 PM
Walkman a fad?
What has its sales been? SOmething like 300 Million+?
Man Dell are running scared.

I would have to somewhat agree. Walkman was never a fad item. It was an evolutionary item. The walkman is still around, not called the walkman though. It is called the iPod now. Walkman never did die, it just became the basis of the idea of portable music. As media progressed so did the walkman. It eventually became the Discman.

Then with one fatal decision, Sony decided to evolve to the MiniDisc. This however was not a standard format. Thus a bad move on sony's part. Apple picked up the slack with a portable MP3 player. The thing that made the Walkman and Discman so popular was the fact that it was a no hassle .. go to the musc store .. buy your cassette/cd .. drop it in your player .. experience. Apple realized that in order to continue and evolve the MP3 format they would need to make the experience similar to what it was like in the past. Hence the iTunes music store.

The great thing about these players is that they can be software updated if problems come about. If digital formats change they can be tweaked to support them.. Newer models can expand capacity of the music player. The ability to store all your music on one device allows added convenience that the walkman and discman failed with. The ability to have quick loseless backups of your music in other locations is also nice. The ability to create your own music playlists.

I don't necessarily see the mp3/aac player dying anytime shortly. There are far too many convenience issues that it solved from previous generation portable music players. The only thing that could kill the player is if the store(s) that back the sales dwindle. Another issue is the fact that not everyone has a computer. If a local mall music store was smart enough and wanted to compete with apple, they would get in the market of offering electronic music purchases at their stores. A person would purchase a player and be able to buy music at the mall without the need of a computer.

Perhaps apple should even think about doing this. Setting up local mall iTunes kiosks.

After apple has it's players in the palms of every customer and they have made their big earnings off the inital start-up.. you will start to see them licensing out the DRM to other stores to follow... this ensuring the success of their product.

Ambrose Chapel
Jan 17, 2005, 12:22 PM
Michael Dell was never about innovation, only profit. He doesn't care to be interesting or different, just rich. He's succeeded.

exactly. he'd make trash if it could make him $$. oh, wait...

:D

1macker1
Jan 17, 2005, 12:51 PM
You might not like what he's saying, but I can see his point. Dell owns the PC market and the low end Mac mini isn't going to change anything. I think apple will continue to dominate the MP3 market, but they will never controll the PC market. Apple sucks at promoting their computer line. The average joe dont know about apple computers.

srobert
Jan 17, 2005, 12:53 PM
I think Michael Dell is pissed off because he predicted (http://www.macnn.com/news.php?id=5194) Apple's demise back in 2001 in Business Week. Now that makes him look very uninsightful.

Quoting Michael Dell: "If you look at proprietary computer companies, whether it's Digital or Silicon Graphics or Apple I think the fates are all relatively similar," he is quoted as saying. "We know how the movie ends. It's just a question of what happens in the middle. Apple has a very little customer base. If you look at the economics, it has been extremely hard for Apple to get a return on its R&D with a shrinking volume base. It's not to say that Apple's products aren't innovative or cool, but the economic factors here are so overwhelming, it's very hard for them to swim against that tide." April 2001

Also of interest:

Merrill Lynch analyst Steve Milunovich’s 10-page research note released this morning indicates that the adoption rate of the iPod is greater than the adoption rate of the Sony Walkman in the early 1980s. After 2.5 years on the market, sales of the iPod are about 1 million units ahead of Walkman sales after the equivalent period of time.

Dell calling the Walkman a "fad" is preposterous. The walkman was one of the greatest commercial achievement in the history of consumer electronics. They have been in widespread use for almost 20 years. I really don't understand this guy. Most CEOs would sell their soul to come up with a product achieving the level of popularity the walkman did.

maya
Jan 17, 2005, 01:00 PM
I think Michael Dell is pissed off because he predicted (http://www.macnn.com/news.php?id=5194) Apple's demise back in 2001 in Business Week. Now that makes him look very uninsightful.



Also of interest:

So what else is NEW, analyst have been proclaiming that Apple was doomed over a decade ago yet here we are. ;) :)

24C
Jan 17, 2005, 01:49 PM
tYNS posted

"Also of interest: Dell calling the Walkman a "fad" is preposterous. The walkman was one of the greatest commercial achievement in the history of consumer electronics. They have been in widespread use for almost 20 years. I really don't understand this guy. Most CEOs would sell their soul to come up with a product achieving the level of popularity the walkman did."

Good points earlier, and this last one really is interesting news. Steve Jobs & co must be smiling, but I don't see it slowing like Dell's CEO does. It's not a fad, although some people have a vested interest in aligning it to one, it is evolution. I got this guy near me who tunes engines, he just downloaded his first batch of music off iTunes and his only criticism of the whole process, is it's too easy :)

Fashions or fads follow fashionable people/wanabees, he is neither of these, but he does know what he wants. I can't see the iPod thing slowing for some time, and if it does, it will be because it doesn't follow peoples' expectations.

So "Dell boys" all the time you're chasing businesses you're leaving people behind...enjoy your market share.

nagromme
Jan 17, 2005, 02:02 PM
Let's take a quick look at the iPod Shuffle vs. Creative and Dell flash players :)

The Shuffle has only LED indicators, no screen. It opts for simplicity. You can't get to a specific song without skipping through the list, the way CD players work. So you listen to your songs in order, or random, skipping ones you don't feel like.

The Shuffle plays AudioBooks. Dell and Creative don't. (Less functionality? Really? Oh, well, I can always listen to ads on FM.)

The Shuffle has the iPod name. They don't.

The Shuffle plays songs from the #1 online music store. They don't.

The shuffle works with iTunes, and has new Shuffle software features like Shadow Mode and Autofill. They don't.

The Shuffle auto-syncs when you connect it. Dell doesn't (Creative does).

The Shuffle connects as a storage drive without special software. Dell requires you to install special Dell software on both machines first!

The shuffle is smaller and lighter and, to many eyes, more stylish and less showy.

The Shuffle costs LESS for MORE storage. Less even than some thumbdrives that can't play music.

:D

Well, those other CEOs can keep giving free press to Apple if they want. Anyone who didn't already know about the Mac Mini? Dell's CEO can give it another headline to make sure they're curious.

bousozoku
Jan 17, 2005, 02:03 PM
exactly. he'd make trash if it could make him $$. oh, wait...

:D

Well, look at what they private label: Lexmark printers and a Samsung music player.

I had good luck with a Lexmark printer but my parents and most other people don't. Every other manufacturer turned them down. Samsung sells a lot of electronic devices but they're not very good--they're just inexpensive.

I was concerned about buying a Sanyo phone because I thought that it was too much of a junk brand but the alternative was Samsung.

Dell, certainly fits into that type of brand where they do nothing well, but they do everything cheap. Everyone else is the enemy. If Apple hadn't been doing well with the iPod, would Dell be selling one of their own? Would they still be selling the iPod itself, if they could?

jbembe
Jan 17, 2005, 02:52 PM
Tell us more. We don't get that over here unless it's on satellite...

Did Dell pay Oprah for a piece of product placement & puffery?

Bet she's got an iPod, though :D


Actually, she did have the iPod when it was first released as a favorite thing. This year, she had some crappy Zen or something!!! Sell-out!!

cwtnospam
Jan 17, 2005, 03:35 PM
So what else is NEW, analyst have been proclaiming that Apple was doomed over a decade ago yet here we are. ;) :)
In 1981, when the PC first came out, analyst were predicting Apple's demise. Then again in 1984, when the Mac came out, then again when Widoze 3.0 first came out, then when Windoze 95, then again and again...

If they can just last another 50 years I'll never have to buy a PC.

:)

Monk Edsel
Jan 17, 2005, 06:15 PM
Then with one fatal decision, Sony decided to evolve to the MiniDisc. This however was not a standard format. Thus a bad move on sony's part.

MiniDisc was/is pretty huge in Japan, and has been for quite some time. Of course, that is winding down now.

Santaduck
Jan 17, 2005, 07:20 PM
the ipod comments are mere distraction.

Notice that he never mentioned Xsan, or X-serve RAID. He just said that's where the money is, but ignored Apple, although Apple comparisons was what the interview was about!

Chaszmyr
Jan 17, 2005, 07:48 PM
Let's take a quick look at the iPod Shuffle vs. Creative and Dell flash players :)

The Shuffle has only LED indicators, no screen. It opts for simplicity. You can't get to a specific song without skipping through the list, the way CD players work. So you listen to your songs in order, or random, skipping ones you don't feel like.

The Shuffle plays AudioBooks. Dell and Creative don't. (Less functionality? Really? Oh, well, I can always listen to ads on FM.)

The Shuffle has the iPod name. They don't.

The Shuffle plays songs from the #1 online music store. They don't.

The shuffle works with iTunes, and has new Shuffle software features like Shadow Mode and Autofill. They don't.

The Shuffle auto-syncs when you connect it. Dell doesn't (Creative does).

The Shuffle connects as a storage drive without special software. Dell requires you to install special Dell software on both machines first!

The shuffle is smaller and lighter and, to many eyes, more stylish and less showy.

The Shuffle costs LESS for MORE storage. Less even than some thumbdrives that can't play music.

:D

Well, those other CEOs can keep giving free press to Apple if they want. Anyone who didn't already know about the Mac Mini? Dell's CEO can give it another headline to make sure they're curious.

Great list. Apple needs to give you a job in marketing and advertisement :)

24C
Jan 18, 2005, 03:05 AM
...snip..Notice that he never mentioned Xsan, or X-serve RAID. He just said that's where the money is, but ignored Apple, although Apple comparisons was what the interview was about!

Yep, wasn't it Cisco who said these had the best price point on the market, don't quite remember who for sure, but it was a recent thing.

3Memos
Jan 18, 2005, 03:19 AM
MiniDisc was/is pretty huge in Japan, and has been for quite some time. Of course, that is winding down now.

Minidisc is huge in the pro audio recording industry. It records very high quality out in the field, and it sometimes replaces DAT.

crazedbytheheat
Jan 18, 2005, 05:18 AM
At least about the iPod and Mac Mini. They've got bigger problems coming.

Yep, wasn't it Cisco who said these had the best price point on the market, don't quite remember who for sure, but it was a recent thing.

Yes, it was Cisco. Not only that but InfoWorld chose the XServe G5 as the best server, OS X.3 as the best OS, and XSAN as the best storage solution for 2004. Not sure what else a business really needs for the server room. Affordable server and storage solutions combined with cheap desktops and you can still run Office.

Yvan256
Jan 18, 2005, 08:05 AM
Add Tiger, iLife, iWork and XServe/XServe RAID/XSan to the equation, and what do you get? If it isn't some attempt at world domination, you tell me what that is! (I know this is all wishful thinking, but admit it, it'd be cool to see Apple dominating this and that market, just like they did with the iPod ;))

Friendly computing? World-wide? No more viruses and crap? Microsoft being a game console maker and nothing else?

Yeah, that'd be nice. :D

Yvan256
Jan 18, 2005, 08:15 AM
Well, those other CEOs can keep giving free press to Apple if they want. Anyone who didn't already know about the Mac Mini? Dell's CEO can give it another headline to make sure they're curious.

Indeed. This is exactly why Pepsi is 2nd world-wide right now. Because Coca-Cola started saying "We're better than Pepsi." Almost nobody knew about Pepsi but did try it out (to really find out if Coca-Cola was indeed better than Pepsi). Yes, Coca-Cola still is the biggest, but Pepsi is a very strong second.

But Dell vs Apple?!

We all know how THAT will end. :D

I just wish I bought Apple shares when they were around 20$. :rolleyes: