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MacBytes
Jan 18, 2005, 10:04 PM
Category: Reviews
Link: Pitting the Cube against the Mac Mini (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20050118230408)
Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by Mudbug

brap
Jan 18, 2005, 10:14 PM
Throwing toys out of pram, "I don't wanna little brother!"

Yes, yes, we know your cube is more upgradeable than the mini. So what?

3Memos
Jan 18, 2005, 10:15 PM
2000 Cube vs. 2005 Mac mini... in 5 years, looks like technology hasn't improved at the rate we'd all hope it would.

dashiel
Jan 18, 2005, 11:22 PM
2000 Cube vs. 2005 Mac mini... in 5 years, looks like technology hasn't improved at the rate we'd all hope it would.

you're comparing a top of the line 2000 macintosh with a 2005 budget mac. the cube was an expensive exercise in squeezing the latest apple processor in a very small, very quiet, very elegant package.

the mini is about putting out a macintosh that will run most apple software respectably enough at a very low price in a very small, very quiet, very elegant package.

other than their form factor their target markets are worlds apart.

24C
Jan 19, 2005, 02:36 AM
2000 Cube vs. 2005 Mac mini... in 5 years, looks like technology hasn't improved at the rate we'd all hope it would.

Bit of a pointless exercise, as the target audience in 2000 & 2005 are so different, unless they were both looking for compact and quiet computers.

The software packages are where the leap forward has been. Remember OS9 anybody?

Mord
Jan 19, 2005, 04:58 AM
no mini can mess with my cube :cool:

24C
Jan 19, 2005, 05:11 AM
no mini can mess with my cube :cool:

Nor mine :cool: , until ... Tiger ships on them!

Dont Hurt Me
Jan 19, 2005, 05:35 AM
2000 Cube vs. 2005 Mac mini... in 5 years, looks like technology hasn't improved at the rate we'd all hope it would.I would 2nd that. The cube blows away the mini with cpu upgrades and videocards and looks. should have never been killed the consumers are still waiting for a consumer tower not more all in ones with soldered on cheap video. Its the all in one's vs powermac and apple has played this game far to long.

24C
Jan 19, 2005, 05:51 AM
I would 2nd that. The cube blows away the mini with cpu upgrades and videocards and looks. should have never been killed the consumers are still waiting for a consumer tower not more all in ones with soldered on cheap video. Its the all in one's vs powermac and apple has played this game far to long.

How many computer models do you want Apple to make?

I agree a smaller Powermac G5 is desirable, at least in my brother in law's case. He ordered some built in office furniture for his study, and couldn't get the G5 tower in the standard opening they offer...didn't find out till he got it out of the box :(

All you're asking for is an upgradeable Mac mini, well it took some years to make an headless iMac, but they got there. It is not beyond the design team to achieve this, but it's probably the heat limitations of the G5 processor in the PowerMacs, that creates the bulk. Maybe when cooler G5's hit the market, and the CEO allows it, you might get your wish.

Dont Hurt Me
Jan 19, 2005, 06:05 AM
How many computer models do you want Apple to make?

I agree a smaller Powermac G5 is desirable, at least in my brother in law's case. He ordered some built in office furniture for his study, and couldn't get the G5 tower in the standard opening they offer...didn't find out till he got it out of the box :(

All you're asking for is an upgradeable Mac mini, well it took some years to make an headless iMac, but they got there. It is not beyond the design team to achieve this, but it's probably the heat limitations of the G5 processor in the PowerMacs, that creates the bulk. Maybe when cooler G5's hit the market, and the CEO allows it, you might get your wish.
2 consumer machines if they both have to be all in ones soldered on crap 1 pro machine and 1 prosumer machine. 2 towers and 2 all in ones not 3 all in ones and 1 very pro level tower. Give the consumer a protower cut in half with pci slots and 1 fastest cpu and something apple HATES! a VIDEOCARD SLOT so users can use a modern card not more 9200/fx5200 bottom tier cheap crap because it only cost apple 10 - 20 bucks to buy. Lets face it folks Apple should be embarrassed for pushing FX5200s and 9200s in everything it makes.

gwuMACaddict
Jan 19, 2005, 06:42 AM
kind of pointless... i feel like each computer was designed to target a different audience. the mini for consumers, the cube for prosumers with way too much cash.

Dont Hurt Me
Jan 19, 2005, 07:11 AM
kind of pointless... i feel like each computer was designed to target a different audience. the mini for consumers, the cube for prosumers with way too much cash.I guess then everyone in the world only requires Fx5200 quality video or less because thats what they have. I wonder why its so different with that other 95% of the market :confused:

gwuMACaddict
Jan 19, 2005, 07:22 AM
i just dont see the point in trying to compare the two products. they're 5 years apart and aimed at different people. thats my point.

Dont Hurt Me
Jan 19, 2005, 07:24 AM
i just dont see the point in trying to compare the two products. they're 5 years apart and aimed at different people. thats my point.
The point is a upgraded cube can still smoke this new machine. :) :D

gwuMACaddict
Jan 19, 2005, 07:29 AM
but an upgraded cube from back in the day cost you 4 times as much

24C
Jan 19, 2005, 07:38 AM
The point is a upgraded cube can still smoke this new machine. :) :D

Ok, you get your wish, a half height tower, turbocharged G5 "Mac mini", with graphic card slot, high spinning 3.5" drive and optical drive slot...how much should it cost?

macFanDave
Jan 19, 2005, 08:03 AM
I remember seeing the Keynote where the Cube was being rolled out. Rumors had been abounding and the product being introduced was a more high-performance machine than rumored. My thought was that it would be a hit if it came in a $999 breaking the four-digit barrier for the first time. When Steve advised us of the price, I predicted flop.

If you remember the product matrix (pro/consumer on on axis, desktop/portable on the other), the Cube was shoehorned between iMac and PowerMac. I didn't see a big audience between the two existing slots and, evidently, very few people did, either. Now that the mini goes to the left of the iMac, it is now properly targeted at the, ahem, value-conscious crowd.

Of course, this includes plain ol' cheapskates, but it also includes people who realize that their real computer usage does not demand the latest and greatest box. Also, people who may apply the mini as something other than a standard desktop system feel like they can indulge their idea at this price.

The Newton was a commercial flop, yet there is a loyal core of fans. It did pave the way for the PDA fad that followed. At least, this time Apple learned from its previous commercial flop and has a good chance to apply the lessons learned to a successful product.

Dont Hurt Me
Jan 19, 2005, 08:10 AM
Ok, you get your wish, a half height tower, turbocharged G5 "Mac mini", with graphic card slot, high spinning 3.5" drive and optical drive slot...how much should it cost?A new cube G5 would be better with a pci slot or two but a protower cut in half will do just as well.

mkaake
Jan 19, 2005, 12:00 PM
<edit>

i think it's an interesting compaison to make, but as it's been stated, they're not the same class of machine. comparing the two is inevitable because of dimensions, but there's really no reason beyond that.

and if non-upgradeable video is that big of a deal to someone, than that particular machine is *not* aimed towards you, so please stop complaining. hearing the same complaints from the same people time and time and time again gets old. the average 'i' level mac user doesn't care about upgradeable video, and if they did, they wouldn't buy imacs, emacs, and the mini. but they keep selling, so the market is there...

Dont Hurt Me
Jan 19, 2005, 12:15 PM
yes, and you've been saying this very same thing for a veryyyy long time, and guess what? people still buy imacs, emacs, and minis. there are people who don't care. you're obviously not one of them, and these macs aren't targeted towards you. so why do you keep complaining about them?
until they make a consumer tower again why not? until they start using modern graphics why not? I cant get excited over another G4 :rolleyes: or 9200= 4mx graphics of years past and distant memories. :eek: They have style and no substance and seems to be the status pro quo from the hardware side. The first thing they seem to do when making a new machine is ask whats the cheapist graphics we can buy and start there. Look at emac,minimac,imac and even the base powermacs. Graphic performance of years past on the PC side. Sad but is indeed true.

24C
Jan 19, 2005, 01:00 PM
until they make a consumer tower again why not? until they start using modern graphics why not? ...snip...They have style and no substance and seems to be the status pro quo from the hardware side. The first thing they seem to do when making a new machine is ask whats the cheapist graphics we can buy and start there. Look at emac,minimac,imac and even the base powermacs. Graphic performance of years past on the PC side. Sad but is indeed true.

Ok, I get your point, the graphics card and a PCI slot are your two biggest gripes. Look it from Apples' point of view, how many are you going to sell pre Mac mini? How much is it going to cost? Who is your target audience?

If they did develop this product, I can only see it as a Mac mini upgrade path. IMO, until Apple increases its user base/market share, I don't see it happening. As I see it the Mac mini is the iPod shuffle, and the PowerMac G5 the iPod, you're just waiting for the bit in the middle.

killmoms
Jan 19, 2005, 01:29 PM
until they make a consumer tower again why not? until they start using modern graphics why not? I cant get excited over another G4 :rolleyes: or 9200= 4mx graphics of years past and distant memories. :eek: They have style and no substance and seems to be the status pro quo from the hardware side. The first thing they seem to do when making a new machine is ask whats the cheapist graphics we can buy and start there. Look at emac,minimac,imac and even the base powermacs. Graphic performance of years past on the PC side. Sad but is indeed true.
I am so farking tired of your endless rants about Apple's graphics cards. Clue to you: 90% of the computer buying public DOESN'T GIVE A FARK! They could care less! They don't even know what an upgradable graphics card is! These are the people who are buying iPods, these are the people Apple's targeting with the Mac mini. The Mac is not a gaming platform. If you have serious media work to do, get a G5, because you can afford it. The other machines are perfectly capable at consumer-level media manipulation (iLife). They don't need the latest graphics cards to do it. If you want the latest graphics cards, and really the ONLY reason you need them is for games, buy a PC.

Now shut the fark up about Apple's graphics card decisions. Put your complaint in your sig so we don't forget that you're a perennial whiner instead of your pathetic and sophomoric line about America's corporate hegemony, and then never waste thread space on it again.

mkaake
Jan 19, 2005, 01:40 PM
until they make a consumer tower again why not?
because we're really tired of hearing the same thing over and over... you made your choice - gaming was more important - so you bought an alienware. good for you. stop complaining now.
until they start using modern graphics why not? I cant get excited over another G4 :rolleyes: or 9200= 4mx graphics of years past and distant memories. :eek: They have style and no substance and seems to be the status pro quo from the hardware side. The first thing they seem to do when making a new machine is ask whats the cheapist graphics we can buy and start there. Look at emac,minimac,imac and even the base powermacs. Graphic performance of years past on the PC side. Sad but is indeed true.

because the average consumer doesn't need the graphics performance of this year on the pc side. you figured you did, so you bought it. guess what - apple wasn't trying to get you to buy an imac, so stop thinking that they did.
and we all know that the g4 is not a g5. again, if you want a super duper pc killer, you buy a pm. not a mac mini, not an emac.
the problem, it would really seem, is that you want the amazing performance of the top end video cards without having to pay for the hardware to back it up, and you want apple to release a 200 dollar 2.5 ghz g5 (though you'd still prolly say it's too slow, too far behind the p4, blah blah blah), with a pci express slot, 5 gigs of ram, and 10,000 rpm hard drives.
so when apple comes out with an absolutely amazing computer, the iMac g5, which is more than suitable for the average home consumer, or the mac mini, as a way to bait and switch potential windows users (note: not a gaming machine), you complain because of the graphics cards. sorry, but a radeon 9200 is more than capable of checking email and playing around in iTunes or garage band.

the mac mini rocks, because it does exactly what it is meant to do. if you don't want to buy it, don't - no one is forcing you to.

p.s. - and the reason that those low end pm's have what you think of as worthless video cards is that a lot of professionals don't need anything more than that! if they want more, they can buy more! i'm sitting at work right now on a 2.4 p4 laptop with a radeon 7500, and guess what? it doesn't slow down word, access, excel, powerpoint, or even autocad. in fact, i can't think of a thing that I've tried to do on my *work* machine that i've been limited in by the graphics card. if they need more, they buy more. if they don't need it, they save their money not buying an awesome graphics card.

how many FPS do you need in excel?

shamino
Jan 19, 2005, 03:28 PM
The CubeOwner chart (http://www.cubeowner.com/forums//index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=966) isn't quite right or fair - to either device.

It says the mini's keyboard/mouse combo is $100. But that's the price for the wireless keyboard/mouse. It's $58 to get the wired ones. (Compared with "free" for the cube, or $120 for wireless.) So knock $42 off of the mini's price.

It also says that MacOS 10.3 is $50 for the cube. Since when? Apple's price is $130. Government/edu pricing is around $65. The cheapest I can find it on-line is $95. (Well, there is one vendor selling for $65, but that's media-only. Probably an OEM disc that may not work with every Mac.) All the cheaper prices are unit prices for educational volume pricing and are not applicable for most people. Add $80 to the price of the cube to cover this mistake.

And then it says 10.4 is $100. What? 10.4 hasn't been released yet. And Apple has made no statement whatsoever about pricing. Until they announce something else, you should assume it will cost $130, which is what all prior releases have cost so far.

So instead of $1352/1277, the price really is $1310/1357.

I think there's a strong case of wishful thinking going on here.

1macker1
Jan 19, 2005, 04:52 PM
The funniest statement I have ever seen on Macrumors.:)
2000 Cube vs. 2005 Mac mini... in 5 years, looks like technology hasn't improved at the rate we'd all hope it would.

brap
Jan 19, 2005, 06:16 PM
I think there's a strong case of wishful thinking going on here.It's all self-aggrandisement, and really... honestly... truly... who cares how fast your scabby, unwarranted 4-year old frankenstein cube can go?

It's almost as if the Mini took away the cube's "elite" aura by being smaller, and bruised a few egos along the way.

Mord
Jan 20, 2005, 02:39 AM
the person that made the chart (laurie) is a big fan of the mini and has registerd a fan site to it which she is yet to put up, i do "love my frankenstine cube" but it's more than that, no mac on the market can replace my two cubes for what they do (be small powerfull and silent) the mac mini's HD is just too small and slow for me and allot of others, and some of us use motion and play the odd game so a decent graphics card is a good thing, i do agree it's not essential for most people but when your doing 3d work it really dose help (i used to get lag from moving wireframe modles in vue despirit before i upgraded my cube's card to an 8500)

Santaduck
Jan 20, 2005, 03:27 AM
Laurie is great, but is also always aboveboard. Her analysis seems right for me, and it was posted as a forum thread (not a news item) half tongue-in-cheek at a cube fansite, and not really intended for general consumption by those that 'don't get it.' ;)


/me pets his unwarranted overpriced frankencube.