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GadgetGirl
Jan 19, 2005, 05:36 PM
Hi,

I would like to know if the mac mini will handle basic video editing. I plan to use Final Cut Express, and add more ram. What do you guys think? I know that the iBooks and PB's will be G5s by the end of the year, but the mini is in my price range.

Thanks!

GadgetGirl

enclave
Jan 19, 2005, 06:08 PM
Hi,

I would like to know if the mac mini will handle basic video editing. I plan to use Final Cut Express, and add more ram. What do you guys think? I know that the iBooks and PB's will be G5s by the end of the year, but the mini is in my price range.

Thanks!

GadgetGirl

I just cut a 50 minute feature movie in FCP on my Powerbook (specs in sig) and it never skipped a beat. Contrary to popular belief video editing does NOT require a high end system, it just takes a little longer to render things. Considering the mac mini is faster in almost every way than my powerbook you should be fine. Also make sure you get 512 ram minimum. 256 will be very, very slow.

mcmav37
Jan 19, 2005, 06:13 PM
I think you will be fine. Yes, adding RAM will be a big thing.

There are already a handful of other similar threads of people saying they have computers with inferior technology to the Mac mini and are able to Photoshop and do video editing fine. I think they key phrase you used is "basic." You are certainly not going to want to be making a living editing feature films, but for casual/amateur use, it should be fine.

I think you will be happy with the performance, unless you try to compare it to a G5. I have one of the new iMac's (see sig) and I think it flies, but I haven't tried to compare it to a dual 2.5 because I know it would make mine feel slow.

You could go to an Apple store starting this weekend when the mini's should go on display and try them out, but you would have to remember that they are severely limited by base RAM.

Good luck.

748s
Jan 19, 2005, 07:21 PM
fce HD needs a minimum of 384mb ram to run and 512mb ram for RT Extreme.
the 40gb hd is small and it is recommended that you store your video files on a different hd to your os/fce.
the mini has one firewire port. so if you are using an external firewire drive and a camera daisy-chained expect dropped frames.
it should work ok, the above things could cause a few hiccups along the way.

GadgetGirl
Jan 19, 2005, 08:55 PM
fce HD needs a minimum of 384mb ram to run and 512mb ram for RT Extreme.
the 40gb hd is small and it is recommended that you store your video files on a different hd to your os/fce.
the mini has one firewire port. so if you are using an external firewire drive and a camera daisy-chained expect dropped frames.
it should work ok, the above things could cause a few hiccups along the way.


Would using a firewire hub eliminate dropped frames?

GadgetGirl

enclave
Jan 19, 2005, 09:11 PM
fce HD needs a minimum of 384mb ram to run and 512mb ram for RT Extreme.
the 40gb hd is small and it is recommended that you store your video files on a different hd to your os/fce.
the mini has one firewire port. so if you are using an external firewire drive and a camera daisy-chained expect dropped frames.
it should work ok, the above things could cause a few hiccups along the way.


I have an external drive and I daisy chain my camera to it, have not had a dropped frame once.

Jalexster
Jan 19, 2005, 09:35 PM
Wouldn't hooking the external drive up via USB 2.0, and the Camera via Firewire be better? Having the external drive on USB 2.0, is better than overloading the firewire connection, right?

GadgetGirl
Jan 19, 2005, 10:00 PM
Wouldn't hooking the external drive up via USB 2.0, and the Camera via Firewire be better? Having the external drive on USB 2.0, is better than overloading the firewire connection, right?

Makes perfect sense to me!

GadgetGirl

filmmaker2002
Jan 19, 2005, 10:04 PM
Not necessarily. The FW bus is wide enough to support camera and HD. In fact, on many occasions I have plugged my camera into my external FW drive and captured the footage TO that drive through FCP. No problems.

ScottDodson
Jan 19, 2005, 10:37 PM
hahaha, I use a quicksilver 867 for all my work (video, 3d) and it works just dandy for me. The mini, with a bump up in the ram will do you just fine.

evil_santa
Jan 20, 2005, 02:25 AM
I have an external drive and I daisy chain my camera to it, have not had a dropped frame once.

same here, I use a 733 G4 & FCP no problems.

GadgetGirl
Jan 20, 2005, 06:26 AM
Thanks to all of you for your advice.....I've been planning to switch for some time now and it's much more affordable at this point.

GadgetGirl

SilentPanda
Jan 20, 2005, 06:49 AM
I have an external drive and I daisy chain my camera to it, have not had a dropped frame once.

I have an iBook G4 800, 640 MB RAM and capture video through my camera which goes through my firewire drive and the video is captured to my firewire drive. Captured 2 1/2 hours worth of video and didn't have a single dropped frame. Works just fine far as I can tell.

jxyama
Jan 20, 2005, 07:16 AM
Thanks to all of you for your advice.....I've been planning to switch for some time now and it's much more affordable at this point.

GadgetGirl

just out of curiosity... if you haven't switched yet, you don't have FCE yet, right? have you tried iMovie? for "basic" video editing, iMovie is fairly competent... and it would be included in the mini.

agentmouthwash
Jan 20, 2005, 08:05 AM
unless you are going to make the next star wars movie, the Mac Mini is perfectly fine for video editing. I use my Powerbook G4 1.25mhz with Final Cut Pro HD. You need at least 512mb of Ram and you might want to get an
external Firewire drive to hold the video footage - which takes up a lot of hard drive space. Good luck!

748s
Jan 20, 2005, 08:09 AM
Would using a firewire hub eliminate dropped frames?

GadgetGirl

it still ends up going in on one firewire bus.
dropped frames can still happen.
usb 2 doesn't have the read/write speed to run an external without hiccups,
(even though it is theoretically faster than firewire 400).
my points are worst case scenarios.
it's good to know of possible limitations.
dropped frames may not happen but if they do you know why.
just recapture from that point.
the mini will be a good way to start with fce/fcp.
happy cutting.

iShater
Jan 20, 2005, 08:16 AM
I have an iBook G4 800, 640 MB RAM and capture video through my camera which goes through my firewire drive and the video is captured to my firewire drive. Captured 2 1/2 hours worth of video and didn't have a single dropped frame. Works just fine far as I can tell.

Small question, how do you know if a frame got dropped? I am doing the same thing (Cam -> FW HD -> iBook -> FW HD) and I didn't notice anything wrong with it, but I am not sure what to look for! :rolleyes:

notjustjay
Jan 20, 2005, 08:40 AM
Makes perfect sense to me!

GadgetGirl

It does in theory, but in practice it doesn't work (at least not for me). I bought a USB2 drive enclosure and a 160 gig drive to pop in it, and started editing a project using FCE 1. At first it was great. Capturing to the drive, playback, scrubbing from the timeline, it all worked fine. But as the project took shape certain things started to slow down and stutter, presumably as I started to saturate the bandwidth available to the USB2 bus. I still got my project done, and it wasn't a huge deal, but it was annoying and it was only getting worse as my project got more involved.

I'd get a Firewire case with daisy-chain instead.

neut
Jan 20, 2005, 09:20 AM
i have not had sucess with DV editing on an external USB 2.0 drive on either Mac or PC ... stick with FW.

i know people who video edit with iMovie/FCExpress on old style iMac ... though, i wouldn't suggest it. :p


peace.

Whigga Spitta
Jan 20, 2005, 10:07 AM
This is unrelated to the topic, but i use a USB 2.0 external drive, which has caused some problems while capturing to that. Can I change FCP's setting to not stop capturing when frames are dropped?? Most of the footage I capture would be fine with a few dropped frames here or there. I typically end up capturing to my PB's HD and then moving the files later...

madrobby
Jan 20, 2005, 01:41 PM
I do SD video editing on a Titanium Powerbook (1GHz, 512MB RAM) with FCP. Works perfectly, even for advanced stuff like color correction, LiveType and so on. I use an external FW hard disk. No problems here. Oh, just get a big display... (I used to work with my 22" CRT but got myself a shiny new 23" Cinema display - it rocks...). For _very advanced_ stuff like Motion, you need a G5 with a $$$ graphics card. But for everything else, the mini would be just perfect.

I have a Sony video camera (DCR-PC330E) which allows me to use in/out FW DV and analog convert it, so I can use a TV to see the results in realtime.

Good luck...

supergod
Jan 20, 2005, 01:48 PM
I don't see why everyone fails to mention this: the most important computer item you will get for video editing is the display. For Final Cut Express, it does help to have a nice processor and a good gig of RAM, but you will be much more limited by a small monitor than a slow computer. First time users of Final Cut, especially those accustomed to iMovie, can not deal with the amount of screen real estate required by the program. Using Final Cut without a widescreen display can be very limiting and will greatly slow you down because you will have to keep reconfiguring your windows for different types of editing. Obviously if the price range you are looking in is that of the mac mini or, ahem, "Ghetto Mac", than you can't afford to buy a nice new widescreen display to go with your computer and as such, the cheapest thing to do would be to get either an iMac G5, with the advantage being better video support for things like titles and effects in editing, or an iMac G4, the only advantage being price. This way you can spend a little extra and at least get a decent display.

madrobby
Jan 20, 2005, 01:56 PM
...and as such, the cheapest thing to do would be to get either an iMac G5, with the advantage being better video support for things like titles and effects in editing, or an iMac G4, the only advantage being price. This way you can spend a little extra and at least get a decent display.

1. I suppose she has a display already, or no Mac mini...
2. A CRT is much more affordable (21" is $350+)

BTW, a Mac mini for video editing has one big setback: No dual monitor support, that is...

GadgetGirl
Jan 20, 2005, 02:28 PM
It does in theory, but in practice it doesn't work (at least not for me). I bought a USB2 drive enclosure and a 160 gig drive to pop in it, and started editing a project using FCE 1. At first it was great. Capturing to the drive, playback, scrubbing from the timeline, it all worked fine. But as the project took shape certain things started to slow down and stutter, presumably as I started to saturate the bandwidth available to the USB2 bus. I still got my project done, and it wasn't a huge deal, but it was annoying and it was only getting worse as my project got more involved.

I'd get a Firewire case with daisy-chain instead.



Thanks FW daisy chain it is, with the mac mini......yeah! My pockets are happy!
GadgetGirl

GadgetGirl
Jan 20, 2005, 02:30 PM
just out of curiosity... if you haven't switched yet, you don't have FCE yet, right? have you tried iMovie? for "basic" video editing, iMovie is fairly competent... and it would be included in the mini.



Yes, I will try imovie first, but I have 'pro-sumer' experience and would soon love to take advantage of the extra features of FCE.

GadgetGirl

GadgetGirl
Jan 20, 2005, 02:36 PM
1. I suppose she has a display already, or no Mac mini...
2. A CRT is much more affordable (21" is $350+)

BTW, a Mac mini for video editing has one big setback: No dual monitor support, that is...


no display yet, planning to get a 19" crt....still less than an imac G5.
GadgetGirl

neut
Jan 20, 2005, 02:52 PM
no display yet, planning to get a 19" crt....still less than an imac G5.
GadgetGirl

if you can fit them ... i would recommened two 17" CRTs (1280x1024) over a single 19". The timeline and windows/pallets on one side and a preview + correction pallets. i use two 19"s here at work. ;)

peace.

notjustjay
Jan 20, 2005, 02:52 PM
When I did my project in FCE I used dual-display on my 12" Powerbook along with an external 17" LCD running 1280x1024. I put my clip bins as a full-screen window on the PB itself (1024x768) and the entire 17" LCD was used up for the other windows (source, timeline, etc). Worked very nicely.

maya
Jan 20, 2005, 03:13 PM
Hi,

I would like to know if the mac mini will handle basic video editing. I plan to use Final Cut Express, and add more ram. What do you guys think? I know that the iBooks and PB's will be G5s by the end of the year, but the mini is in my price range.

Thanks!

GadgetGirl


Why would anyone say ANY modern Mac released today will not edit DV, I mean come on now, have you heard of a product called "iLife", thats right it includes guess what iMove. ;) Why would Apple ship a suite that would not run decently on a system it is packaged with. :confused: :)

neut
Jan 20, 2005, 03:18 PM
Why would anyone say ANY modern Mac released today will not edit DV, I mean come on now, have you heard of a product called "iLife", thats right it includes guess what iMove. ;) Why would Apple ship a suite that would not run decently on a system it is packaged with. :confused: :)

i would like to see the mini running iMovie HD ... while runnin iPhoto, Safari, iTunes, Garageband, iDVD, Mail, iCal, stickies and calculator (most in dashboard of course). if it can do that well, there should be any problems with much else; except window scolling that is ... even my G5s fans rev up when i do that. ;)


peace.

maya
Jan 20, 2005, 03:23 PM
i would like to see the mini running iMovie HD ... while runnin iPhoto, Safari, iTunes, Garageband, iDVD, Mail, iCal, stickies and calculator (most in dashboard of course). if it can do that well, there should be any problems with much else; except window scolling that is ... even my G5s fans rev up when i do that. ;)


peace.

Which G5 are you running a PM or iMac, since I already know the iMac G5 fan revving issue(s), since its using the old 130nm chip and there are other faults with it that I found out first hand. :)

Do you have enough ram, have it in a cooled (temperature) room, or are you sitting near a heater. ;) :)

neut
Jan 20, 2005, 03:28 PM
Which G5 are you running a PM or iMac, since I already know the iMac G5 fan revving issue(s), since its using the old 130nm chip and there are other faults with it that I found out first hand. :)

Do you have enough ram, have it in a cooled (temperature) room, or are you sitting near a heater. ;) :)

it runs cool all the time ... the fans only kick on when i start a program (and only for a few seconds), when it locks up (they go full blast), and when i scroll a browser window up and down really fast. :D

it's a DP2.5 ... :)

maya
Jan 20, 2005, 03:35 PM
it runs cool all the time ... the fans only kick on when i start a program (and only for a few seconds), when it locks up (they go full blast), and when i scroll a browser window up and down really fast. :D

it's a DP2.5 ... :)


It could be one of many issues with the system or the system software.

I do not have a DP 2.5 for the very reason I am not the kind to pay for CUTTING EDGE technology that will drop in price in a year or so. :)

Though it sounds odd, only time I have had fans rev up on my G3, G4 and G5 system way when I started using a java application and watching HD movies (not via Optical). However that way it never when I opened several applications then again my systems have over 512MB ram. :)

za9ra22
Jan 20, 2005, 03:45 PM
i would like to see the mini running iMovie HD ... while runnin iPhoto, Safari, iTunes, Garageband, iDVD, Mail, iCal, stickies and calculator (most in dashboard of course). if it can do that well, there should be any problems with much else; except window scolling that is ... even my G5s fans rev up when i do that. ;)


peace.

I never thought of running Safari, Mail, iCal etc all at the same time too, but iMovie, iTunes, iPhoto, iDVD and Graphic Converter run concurrently on my G4 450 just fine. Rendering effects in iMovie is a tad slow (but it always has been anyway) and switching between the apps takes a second, but it's stable and usable.

neut
Jan 20, 2005, 03:45 PM
It could be one of many issues with the system or the system software.

I do not have a DP 2.5 for the very reason I am not the kind to pay for CUTTING EDGE technology that will drop in price in a year or so. :)

Though it sounds odd, only time I have had fans rev up on my G3, G4 and G5 system way when I started using a java application and watching HD movies (not via Optical). However that way it never when I opened several applications then again my systems have over 512MB ram. :)

i have 1.5Gs of RAM.

the fans are a common problem with the 2.5s. the 2.0s seem more reliable (sound studio guys use them). hard locks are more common than i would like ... the machine screams though. ;) im getting into Motion work so i thought it would suit me better. it's a refurb so $ wasn't too bad. if Motion requirments weren't so steep and i worked a little cleaner/minimal i could have got a 2.0, but this 2.5 should keep good value and or last me a few years (though im sure i'll sell in a year and a half as usual). ;) :D


peace.

neut
Jan 20, 2005, 03:48 PM
I never thought of running Safari, Mail, iCal etc all at the same time too, but iMovie, iTunes, iPhoto, iDVD and Graphic Converter run concurrently on my G4 450 just fine. Rendering effects in iMovie is a tad slow (but it always has been anyway) and switching between the apps takes a second, but it's stable and usable.

yeah, i think any AGP Pmac has the capability to do just about everything.

i know i loved my DP 450 G4. :D i hear it's still running strong ...


peace.


*oops, sorry about the double post ... odd timings.

maya
Jan 20, 2005, 03:51 PM
i have 1.5Gs of RAM.

the fans are a common problem with the 2.5s. the 2.0s seem more reliable (sound studio guys use them). hard locks are more common than i would like ... the machine screams though. ;) im getting into Motion work so i thought it would suit me better. it's a refurb so $ wasn't too bad. if Motion requirments weren't so steep and i worked a little cleaner/minimal i could have got a 2.0, but this 2.5 should keep good value and or last me a few years (though im sure i'll sell in a year and a half as usual). ;) :D


peace.

I am also going to buy a refurb PM down the road, however don't need to use motion until version 2 is out and it matures a little. :)

I also do not like the water cooler idea, and if Apple had a refurb 2.0GHz and I needed it right now I would not think twice. :)

jayscheuerle
Jan 20, 2005, 04:12 PM
if you can fit them ... i would recommened two 17" CRTs (1280x1024) over a single 19". The timeline and windows/pallets on one side and a preview + correction pallets. i use two 19"s here at work. ;)

peace.

How can you do that with a single video out on the Mini?

maya
Jan 20, 2005, 04:15 PM
How can you do that with a single video out on the Mini?

You can buy an adapter that will split the video signal and use mirror or dual display mode. ;) :)

neut
Jan 20, 2005, 04:16 PM
How can you do that with a single video out on the Mini?

ummm , yeah ... i didn't really just say that did i? :o

oops. :p


peace.

neut
Jan 20, 2005, 04:18 PM
You can buy an adapter that will split the video signal and use mirror or dual display mode. ;) :)

yeah, not the most elegant solution though. ;)

splitting 32MB of VRAM isn't too fun for video. :)


peace.

***** ... here i go double posting; again! :p

maya
Jan 20, 2005, 04:21 PM
yeah, not the most elegant solution though. ;)

splitting 32MB of VRAM isn't too fun for video. :)


peace.

***** ... here i go double posting; again! :p

What else will cheap buy? ;) :)

I don't think people care if you hide the splitter and wires all they will see is the mini and wonder, I believe the PSU is also in there. NICE. <-- when it is not. ;) :)

FCP, FCexpress, and iMove will run fine on 16MB. One just has to be patient that is all. :)

enclave
Jan 20, 2005, 04:27 PM
Not necessarily. The FW bus is wide enough to support camera and HD. In fact, on many occasions I have plugged my camera into my external FW drive and captured the footage TO that drive through FCP. No problems.

Thats exactly what I do, works fine

I dont trust the USB2 ports, they never seem to perform as well as the firewire connection

neut
Jan 20, 2005, 04:28 PM
What else will cheap buy? ;) :)

I don't think people care if you hide the splitter and wires all they will see is the mini and wonder, I believe the PSU is also in there. NICE. <-- when it is not. ;) :)

FCP, FCexpress, and iMove will run fine on 16MB. One just has to be patient that is all. :)

i guess its no different when hacking the iBook to run dual monitors. :p


peace.

maya
Jan 20, 2005, 04:30 PM
i guess its no different when hacking the iBook to run dual monitors. :p


peace.

LOL you got that right. FCP will run on 8MB of video ram as well. All FCP needs is ram and the more the better with a decent size HDD. :)

madrobby
Jan 20, 2005, 04:36 PM
You can buy an adapter that will split the video signal and use mirror or dual display mode. ;) :)

Could you post a link to something like this? Mirroring = of course, but Dual display mode?

jayscheuerle
Jan 20, 2005, 06:46 PM
i guess its no different when hacking the iBook to run dual monitors. :p


peace.

kills iPhoto and screensaver transitions. No "rotating cube" when switching users. I've got my iBook hooked up to a 27" flatscreen HDTV w/wireless keyboard and mouse. I may get a Mini just to get the full 32MB going to one screen...

jayscheuerle
Jan 21, 2005, 10:55 AM
Could you post a link to something like this? Mirroring = of course, but Dual display mode?

DVI splitting to 2 vga (http://www.pacificcable.com/Picture_Page.asp?DataName=DVIIY-6)

jayscheuerle
Jan 21, 2005, 11:10 AM
double post (sorry)

Yvan256
Jan 21, 2005, 02:44 PM
the mini has one firewire port. so if you are using an external firewire drive and a camera daisy-chained expect dropped frames.

This is one thing I never understood. If the camera is digital, FireWire is digital... Why is there dropped frames? Is the camera simply sending the data in a dumb mode with no control whatsoever?!

Yvan256
Jan 21, 2005, 02:50 PM
if you can fit them ... i would recommened two 17" CRTs (1280x1024) over a single 19". The timeline and windows/pallets on one side and a preview + correction pallets. i use two 19"s here at work. ;)

peace.

Mac mini only has one output.

maya
Jan 21, 2005, 02:51 PM
This is one thing I never understood. If the camera is digital, FireWire is digital... Why is there dropped frames? Is the camera simply sending the data in a dumb mode with no control whatsoever?!

This is an extreme and rare case, since FireWire 400 will support up to 63 external devices and there is an issue as to how many of those devices use power over FireWire or use an external adapter for power.

It is not commended to connect a digital camera(corder) to a pocket firewire drive that is charging on the same firewire line without an external adapter, since the line will drop data during transfer.

If you have an external FireWire 400 HDD and its has its own power unit and is not bus powered then frame dropping is not an issue. :)

maya
Jan 21, 2005, 02:53 PM
Mac mini only has one output.

re-read some of the posts after the quote, you will see that you can split the connector. ;) :)

jayscheuerle
Jan 21, 2005, 02:55 PM
I dont trust the USB2 ports, they never seem to perform as well as the firewire connection

You shouldn't for something that requires a constant stream. USB uses your computer's brains to move data (sharing it with other processes). Firewire has it's own chipset, keeping it smooth and steady...

ChrisFromCanada
Jan 21, 2005, 05:18 PM
Umm can anyone confirm that the DVI to 2 VGA output works? I have my doubts...

neut
Jan 21, 2005, 05:33 PM
This is one thing I never understood. If the camera is digital, FireWire is digital... Why is there dropped frames? Is the camera simply sending the data in a dumb mode with no control whatsoever?!

dv is on tape; lack of bus bandwidth, hogged cpu, not enough RAM ... at least with the work PC that has happened. :D the mac has always captured fine for me. FW Rocks!

if DV was solid state or at least (S)ATA then drop frames wouldn't be an issue ... only corruption.


peace.

Capt Underpants
Jan 21, 2005, 06:42 PM
re-read some of the posts after the quote, you will see that you can split the connector. ;) :)

AFAIK, you can only mirror with the split connector, not span.

maya
Jan 21, 2005, 06:45 PM
AFAIK, you can only mirror with the split connector, not span.

*cough*time for a hack*cough* ;) :)

In due time Cappy. ;) :)

ChrisFromCanada
Jan 21, 2005, 08:06 PM
I am betting it will take more than a software hack. Prolly an external box or a *specialized* splitter.

dejo
Jan 21, 2005, 08:08 PM
*cough*time for a hack*cough* ;) :)

In due time Cappy. ;) :)

Has this been done before?

zyuzin4
Jan 22, 2005, 12:28 PM
Umm can anyone confirm that the DVI to 2 VGA output works? I have my doubts...


you mean the adapter that comes with the mini?

jayscheuerle
Jan 22, 2005, 12:43 PM
Umm can anyone confirm that the DVI to 2 VGA output works? I have my doubts...

Yeah, the only thing I can Googlehunt is references to splitting the same image to 2 different monitors for mirroring. Presentation type of stuff...

spins
Jan 24, 2005, 10:16 AM
i would like to see the mini running iMovie HD ... while runnin iPhoto, Safari, iTunes, Garageband, iDVD, Mail, iCal, stickies and calculator (most in dashboard of course). if it can do that well, there should be any problems with much else; except window scolling that is ... even my G5s fans rev up when i do that. ;)


peace.

You forgot to include, with one hand tied behind your back...

neut
Jan 24, 2005, 11:17 AM
You forgot to include, with one hand tied behind your back...

if it was my machine you'd have to also include Live, Reason, Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Motion, and Dreamweaver. and swap FCE HD for iMovie HD. ;)


peace.

canyonblue737
Jan 24, 2005, 03:39 PM
ok so here is a STUPID video editing question...

when talking about performance in video editing you are talking about the speed of rendering, not the final product right? i am about to have my first child and rather than upgrading my WinXP machine with a DVD burner and Adobe Premiere Elements i am thinking of doing what i always wanted to do and get another Mac (i started with the 128k! and left after the 2nd gen of powermacs) and use the iLife apps i love seeing and reading about so much.

i *don't* mind it if it takes a minute or two to render a fade or something but i CAN'T accept dropped frames when my miniDV camera imports the video via firewire and i CAN'T accept any video flaws when the end product is burned to DVD and then viewed via a normal DVD player.

slower machines etc. don't "damage" the video, they simply take longer to get to the same high quality end product right? ps: i intend to go to 1 GB of RAM (via crucial.com) right from the start if i go the Mac mini route.

neut
Jan 24, 2005, 03:46 PM
slower machines etc. don't "damage" the video, they simply take longer to get to the same high quality end product right? ps: i intend to go to 1 GB of RAM (via crucial.com) right from the start if i go the Mac mini route.

if you know what you're doing and have enough RAM ... a Mac mini will video capture, edit, and author DV to DVD with no problems. :)

i've only experienced dropped frames on a PC through USB 2 or through VNC. Never had a problem on a mac.

A faster processor will only make your life faster ... not easier.


peace.

canyonblue737
Jan 24, 2005, 03:49 PM
if you know what you're doing and have enough RAM ... a Mac mini will video capture, edit, and author DV to DVD with no problems. :)

A faster processor will only make your life faster ... not easier.


peace.

that's the whole point right? one of the reasons i am considering moving to the Mac mini is because i DON'T KNOW WHAT I AM DOING! frankly i am getting ready to purchase a miniDV camera (some under $600 model) and intend to simply plug the thing into the firewire port and play around as i go. i assume that isn't rocket science and i am going to drop frames if i don't have the settings right or something... right?

mymemory
Jan 24, 2005, 04:27 PM
Not necessarily. The FW bus is wide enough to support camera and HD. In fact, on many occasions I have plugged my camera into my external FW drive and captured the footage TO that drive through FCP. No problems.

Firewire drive 50MB/Sec (In theory) DV format is 3.5MB/Sec.

Just to remidn you all something... becak in 1997 there was the G3 233 tower and it was the best solution for video editing. Today we are running systems way faster than those, so, do not worry about data transfer anymore I would say.

But keep the system and software in a different drive than your footage.

neut
Jan 25, 2005, 01:06 PM
Firewire drive 50MB/Sec (In theory) DV format is 3.5MB/Sec.

Just to remidn you all something... becak in 1997 there was the G3 233 tower and it was the best solution for video editing. Today we are running systems way faster than those, so, do not worry about data transfer anymore I would say.

But keep the system and software in a different drive than your footage.

i know DV made it's debut to the consumer in 1995 ... FW debuted (in a production mac) in 1998 ... what was used to transfer DV back then?

interesting.


peace.

jayscheuerle
Jan 25, 2005, 01:13 PM
i know DV made it's debut to the consumer in 1995 ... FW debuted in 1998 ... what was used to transfer DV back then?

interesting.


peace.

Some ultra-wide SCSI, I'd guess..

neut
Jan 25, 2005, 01:53 PM
Some ultra-wide SCSI, I'd guess..

anyone know what kind of digital or analog outs the first digital camcorders had? S-video with analog capture? or could you only use the tapes in specific tape players (like Digital 8) with SCISI? could HDs even handle DV or was everything done on tape?

i think i just go through life asking questions and rarely find the time to answer them ...


peace.

za9ra22
Jan 25, 2005, 02:22 PM
that's the whole point right? one of the reasons i am considering moving to the Mac mini is because i DON'T KNOW WHAT I AM DOING! frankly i am getting ready to purchase a miniDV camera (some under $600 model) and intend to simply plug the thing into the firewire port and play around as i go. i assume that isn't rocket science and i am going to drop frames if i don't have the settings right or something... right?

I battled a PC for months trying to get to the point where I could edit a simple DV project. After a frustrating number of dropped frames, a frustrating number of hours working with obstructive and non-intituitive software, and finally ending with a movie that steadfastly refused to be what I wanted it to be, I gave up.

The someone mentioned iMovie. I'd heard of it - indeed, it was installed on my office-based Mac, so I borrowed that for a weekend - what a revalation!

Simple, faultless and completely intuitive. No manual (or rocket scientist) needed, no frustration, no dropped frames and nothing to obstruct me getting the result out that I'd wanted.

That was with a G3, and although iMovie has improved a lot since then (ie, it's got a lot bigger), there's no reason to believe that your experience running it on a 1.25GHz Mac Mini would not be every bit as sucessful and productive.

You need to be a tad wary of the fact that not all DV camcorders work properly with iMovie (typically Sony, Panasonic and Canon models tend to work just fine, and most JVCs do too), so it would be wise to get the camcorder from a supplier who will allow you to exchange it if you need to. Also, even if you notice slightly juddery video when importing, that's just iMovie saving processor time - the actual captured footage will be fine - as you'll see when output to DVD and playing on your TV.

But after you connect a compatible miniDV camcorder and have iMovie ready, you'll find that iMovie is a remarkably simple tool that allows the creation of quite sophisticated movies. It has limitations (or else why would Apple sell Final Cut), but for home (or moderately light commercial) use, iMovie is a solid and commendable product. Just don't practice with version 3 - that was AWFUL!

VideoShooter
Feb 2, 2005, 07:34 PM
...

neut
Feb 3, 2005, 11:25 AM
I've got a Dual 2.0.

1.2 TB on Quad fiber channel.

Cinewave.

FCP HD 4.5

1 GB RAM

wow, only 1G of RAM? no multi tasking? :p


peace.

VideoShooter
Feb 3, 2005, 01:12 PM
...

ravenvii
Feb 3, 2005, 03:10 PM
I did iMovie and some FCE on a iMac 17" 800 MHz. When I stream my movie from my Sony camcorder to iMovie/FCE, I do get some dropped frames. About two or three in an about 30 minutes of DV. When I find a dropped frame, I just streamed that part from the camcorder again. That fixes the problem, but yeah it's annoying. The iMac only has 256 MB of RAM though. Hopefully my Mac mini won't have that problem with 1 GB RAM!

kaltsasa
Feb 3, 2005, 03:12 PM
I edited video for a long long time on a G4 533 w Final Cut Pro. Mac mini will be fine. Make sure you get ram. RAM helps a lot on rendering. But quite frankly, you won't be dissapointed editing on a Mac Mini with a firewire drive I'm sure.

madrobby
Feb 3, 2005, 03:20 PM
The iMac only has 256 MB of RAM though.

:eek: Isn't 384 MB required for FCE DV editing? At least the specs page (http://www.apple.com/finalcutexpress/specs.html) says so. But this is for new version (HD editing requires 1GB RAM).

On my 1Ghz G4 PB with 512MB RAM i don't get dropped frames (capturing to external FW400 Maxtor 250GB drive).

Make sure you don't use a DV casette too often, they tend to get errors over time, though.

One more thing... The internal drive of the mini is not the fastest one, so I would recommend using an external drive (firewire, NOT USB2!).

ravenvii
Feb 3, 2005, 06:21 PM
:eek: Isn't 384 MB required for FCE DV editing? At least the specs page (http://www.apple.com/finalcutexpress/specs.html) says so. But this is for new version (HD editing requires 1GB RAM).

On my 1Ghz G4 PB with 512MB RAM i don't get dropped frames (capturing to external FW400 Maxtor 250GB drive).

Make sure you don't use a DV casette too often, they tend to get errors over time, though.

One more thing... The internal drive of the mini is not the fastest one, so I would recommend using an external drive (firewire, NOT USB2!).

It was the first version of FCE, I got it back in summer of 2003.

And if you could direct me to a external enclosure that enclosures a SATA HD, and uses firewire, I will buy one on the spot. Because I already have a nice 7200 RPM 80 GB Seagate SATA HD in my PC that I'd like to take out and put into an enclosure.

LethalWolfe
Feb 3, 2005, 07:42 PM
FW came out in 1995. Pre digital connections you needed to purchase an analog capture card to capture and encode the video on the fly or, for higher end equipment, it probably had some sort of propriatary I/O "way back" in the day. You wouldn't find SCSI or anyting like that on a camera or deck. AFAIK SDI (serial digital interface) has been the standard I/O for pro digital video for a while now (there is also HD-SDI for use w/HD video).

Dropping frames isn't a RAM issue unless you just don't have enough RAM to run the program. Assuming there isn't a software malfunction dropped frames result because the info can't get written fast enough to the HDD. The problems could range anywhere from anti-virus software, to having too many programs accessing the HDD at once, to a lower level issuse hampering the data xfer. I remember back when I was editing on a PC I had to make sure I was running a specific chipset version for my mobo and specific ATA controller drivers otherwise I'd drop frames. Needless to say problems like that really don't exist on Macs because the underlying tech is so uniform.


Lethal

neut
Feb 4, 2005, 01:45 PM
FW came out in 1995.

ah yes, my earlier post was reffering to when it made it into a production mac (98/99 B&W towers). :)

FW ... i'm lovin it!


peace.