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Meric
Dec 7, 2010, 04:02 AM
hey guys....

I am so used to using my MBA with no noise at all... mostly my fan is around 2000 rpm.. MBA is very quiet...

however when I do video chat in skype...fan goes as high as 5500 rpm...and I hear the fan noise...

is there anyway to video chat without the fan noise?

thanks.



netdog
Dec 7, 2010, 04:12 AM
Skype for Mac is very poorly written software that tends to pound on the processor at times. I can only imagine what it demands of the CPU when running video.

KnightWRX
Dec 7, 2010, 04:17 AM
Yes, use a 3rd party utility to control your fans so they never go over 2000 rpm. However, you might not like the result at all.

The fans start up for a reason, that's because your MacBook is generating heat. There's no fan API that software uses to start or stop the fans, it's all about the heat sensors. CPU usage = heat.

Skype for Mac is very poorly written software that tends to pound on the processor at times. I can only imagine what it demands of the CPU when running video.

I'd like to see you write an application that both encodes and decodes video and sound in real-time that doesn't pound on the processor. I swear people that say "poorly written software" probably never wrote a damn line of code in their life.

dekka007
Dec 7, 2010, 05:03 AM
did have that fan noise on skype also.

Coolbook is the best thing i ever bought. Silent cool MBA.

poobear
Dec 7, 2010, 09:34 AM
Coolbook helps ye. But fan noise is sort of inevitable as video chat in Skype takes ~100% cpu.

KPOM
Dec 7, 2010, 09:41 AM
I'd like to see you write an application that both encodes and decodes video and sound in real-time that doesn't pound on the processor. I swear people that say "poorly written software" probably never wrote a damn line of code in their life.

I'm definitely not a coder and don't know how easy or difficult it is, but how does Skype compare to iChat or similar software?

I don't agree that those of us who aren't programmers can't criticize bad programming. I don't have any problems in saying that Flash for OS X 10.2 Beta appears much better written than previous versions.

In any case, might Skype for Mac be a program that could benefit from recompiling to take advantage of Grand Central Dispatch and OpenCL? Does it make appropriate use of the GPU?

KnightWRX
Dec 7, 2010, 10:04 AM
I
I don't agree that those of us who aren't programmers can't criticize bad programming. I don't have any problems in saying that Flash for OS X 10.2 Beta appears much better written than previous versions.


So you're all for armchair quarterbacks ? Seriously, before you know about API availability/capability on platforms and compression/decompression algorithms and other caveats programmers have to face in writing code, you can't comment on "bad coding".

KPOM
Dec 7, 2010, 10:21 AM
So you're all for armchair quarterbacks ? Seriously, before you know about API availability/capability on platforms and compression/decompression algorithms and other caveats programmers have to face in writing code, you can't comment on "bad coding".

That's why I'm asking how well Skype compares to similar programs. If other people can write software for the same platform (facing the same limitations) that runs better, then it would seem that "bad coding" is an issue.

I can't play professional sports, and have never held political office, but that doesn't stop me from making comparisons or having a vote.

KnightWRX
Dec 7, 2010, 11:24 AM
That's why I'm asking how well Skype compares to similar programs. If other people can write software for the same platform (facing the same limitations) that runs better, then it would seem that "bad coding" is an issue.

You have to take in the reality of such software being different. While there is a level of bad/good coding that can make differences in performance of an app, sometimes it's just that the vendors went for different trade offs.

Unless you specifically understand what you're talking about and the software packages you're comparing and do a full comparison, not just a selective one, you really can't go around claiming an app is "badly" written.

I can't play professional sports, and have never held political office, but that doesn't stop me from making comparisons or having a vote.

So you like playing armchair quarterback. Gotcha. Seriously, in politics, I hope you vote with at least an understanding of the big picture and not based on some sensationalistic headlines. A lot of people who vote don't actually have a grasp on the economic/diplomatic issues and just vote for the most charismatic leader, which is highly inefficient in and of itself. It's a poor analogy really since it mostly reinforces my point about the uninformed/uninitiated blabbering about stuff they don't know.

Same for pro sports, you can compare all you want, if you don't know how to play the sport at the level these guys do, you really have no place commenting and comparing.

Basically, bring it. You want to say someone is doing something "badly", show us how it's done.

Scott6666
Dec 7, 2010, 11:42 AM
Which Air, the 11 or the 13?

Wang Foolio
Dec 7, 2010, 11:48 AM
Knight. Dude. Seriously. He's also asking a legitimate question.

How does the MBA handle other video conferencing/chat programs right now? Do they put the same load on the CPU and rev up the fans?

I understand your point of view with respect to criticism of programmers. I've dabbled in web design and intro level programming stuff. I am a total gamer/technology geek and I did well in those classes but programming is NOT for me :eek: That doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on competing software.

A layperson doesn't understand more than a tiny fraction of what's going on inside their computer. Or with their government, or in their favorite team's locker room, for that matter! I agree with this 100%. But still, that doesn't mean they don't have the capability of analysing the real world performance and making a comment about it.

"Skype doesn't run very well on my computer."

"I don't like how the government is addressing ______."

"If the Seahawks could put together a decent first quarter I wouldn't be so stressed out every Sunday."

What's wrong with any of these statements?

KnightWRX
Dec 7, 2010, 12:32 PM
Knight. Dude. Seriously. He's also asking a legitimate question.

The OP never commented on the quality of Skype's code nor are my comments aimed at the OP.

KPOM
Dec 7, 2010, 12:54 PM
Unless you specifically understand what you're talking about and the software packages you're comparing and do a full comparison, not just a selective one, you really can't go around claiming an app is "badly" written.

It's a poor analogy really since it mostly reinforces my point about the uninformed/uninitiated blabbering about stuff they don't know.

Basically, bring it. You want to say someone is doing something "badly", show us how it's done.

Basically, you are saying that unless you have the ability to do something better yourself, you have no right to criticize.

So I assume you never criticize anyone. That's an odd position to take.

"Who are we to complain about Microsoft Windows? Could we design a better operating system? We should just accept it for what it is. Who are we to complain about the cable company or our cell phone company? We can't build a better network ourselves. Who are we to complain about the kings who rule us by divine right?" Where does it end?

Getting back to the point at hand, Skype does appear to take up a lot of resources. It's a legitimate question to ask whether the issue is inefficient coding, either on their part, or on Apple's part in designing the OS on which it runs. It's possible to be reasonably well informed about something without being an expert in it.

Wang Foolio
Dec 7, 2010, 01:28 PM
The OP never commented on the quality of Skype's code nor are my comments aimed at the OP.

hey guys....

I am so used to using my MBA with no noise at all... mostly my fan is around 2000 rpm.. MBA is very quiet...

however when I do video chat in skype...fan goes as high as 5500 rpm...and I hear the fan noise...

is there anyway to video chat without the fan noise?

thanks.

I'm just saying, this does nothing to help the OP. Hijacking the thread to rant about this epistemological nonsense isn't a good use of anybody's time.

:cool:

mstrze
Dec 7, 2010, 01:32 PM
It's a legitimate question to ask whether the issue is inefficient coding, either on their part, or on Apple's part in designing the OS on which it runs. It's possible to be reasonably well informed about something without being an expert in it.

I agree...I mean, does videochatting within iChat or similar soak up as much system resources? I argue it doesn't and one might suggest that Skype might be able to streamline things....

....but I'm not a programmer so...

ReallyBigFeet
Dec 7, 2010, 01:35 PM
Don't mind Knight.....

Skype pegs the MBA's processor hard and even harder yet if you invoke the webcam. There's no way around this behavior. It is a function of how OSX and Skype are written.

As others have said, you can control the fans yourself, but that fan is running for a reason, not because of some bug (well not in this case at least). If you only use Skype intermittently then I see no harm in disabling the fans for your Skype calls, remembering to give control back over to OSX after the call is finished.

You can also just plug in your headphones. People tell me they can't hear the fans on their side so its only distracting to me and I don't notice them at all when using the headphones.

Meric
Dec 7, 2010, 01:59 PM
Which Air, the 11 or the 13?

I have the 13.3 1.86 ghz - 4 gb ram...

hope video chat apps would be more easy on CPUs soon....

dmelgar
Dec 7, 2010, 02:33 PM
Fan is really quiet on the 11", even spun up, can't really hear it. I'm amazed how loud the 13" MBA fan is.

Just sayin.

netdog
Dec 7, 2010, 02:36 PM
Yes, use a 3rd party utility to control your fans so they never go over 2000 rpm. However, you might not like the result at all.

The fans start up for a reason, that's because your MacBook is generating heat. There's no fan API that software uses to start or stop the fans, it's all about the heat sensors. CPU usage = heat.



I'd like to see you write an application that both encodes and decodes video and sound in real-time that doesn't pound on the processor. I swear people that say "poorly written software" probably never wrote a damn line of code in their life.

Oh, so I have to be able to write software to critique it?

Try this on.

It pounds on the processor and has huge memory leaks that send it spinning out of control eating up resources.

It's the Adobe Flash of telecommunications programs, and it's much better under Windows. Using OS X, it's a piece of cr@p.

netdog
Dec 7, 2010, 02:42 PM
Basically, bring it. You want to say someone is doing something "badly", show us how it's done.

That's just a bizarre comment. People critique things all the time outside their field, and justly so.

It's down to Skype to produce a program that uses resources efficiently and performs in a stable and reliable manner.

Skype really doesn't do that. Just open activity monitor, run Skype for an hour, and then have a look. Sorry, but I don't have to be a programmer to say that Skype often gums up my computing experience, and that other telecomm programs don't. It's that simple.

poobear
Dec 7, 2010, 03:02 PM
is there anyway to video chat without the fan noise?

I've heard a lot of good comments on Google Video (inside gmail) regarding cpu, although I haven't tested it myself.

Mac32
Dec 7, 2010, 03:04 PM
You should ditch Skype now that MSN 8 has fineally been released for Mac. After I got MSN8 I deleted Skype, Adium, iChat...whatever. MSN8 is great on mac, totally stable here (video, audio, texting), and it's less CPU hungry too.

netdog
Dec 7, 2010, 03:06 PM
is there anyway to video chat without the fan noise?


Use iChat or Facetime. Haven't tried MSN or Google video chat, but the above posters are probably right.

dekka007
Dec 8, 2010, 02:24 AM
As I stated above use COOLBOOK.

MBA 13" 2010 2.13ghz 4gb Ram and coolbook

Video chat now on Skype:

CPU 68%
CPU Temp 64c
Fan Speed 2700RPM (Cannot hear it)

Totally silent Skype to Skype video chat and that is on lying down with the MBA on a blanket!

KnightWRX
Dec 8, 2010, 04:06 AM
It pounds on the processor and has huge memory leaks that send it spinning out of control eating up resources.

Do you even know what a memory leak actually is ? I mean, you don't know how to write software, and pointers and memory allocation are one of the topics starting programmers struggle with the most, yet here you are, without having seeing the code at all, claiming the thing leaks memory.

How do you know they haven't free()'d a pointer correctly before issuing their next malloc() on it if you don't even know how all of this works ? :rolleyes:

At least, don't use industry jargon when doing "arm chair quarterbacking", because everytime a neophyte uses said jargon, they tend to show they have no clue.

And thanks for proving my point.

netdog
Dec 8, 2010, 04:15 AM
Do you even know what a memory leak actually is ? I mean, you don't know how to write software, and pointers and memory allocation are one of the topics starting programmers struggle with the most, yet here you are, without having seeing the code at all, claiming the thing leaks memory.

How do you know they haven't free()'d a pointer correctly before issuing their next malloc() on it if you don't even know how all of this works ? :rolleyes:

At least, don't use industry jargon when doing "arm chair quarterbacking", because everytime a neophyte uses said jargon, they tend to show they have no clue.

And thanks for proving my point.

Oh please. It doesn't take an engineer to know it's rubbish software, just like it doesn't take an automobile engineer to say that a car is rubbish.

flatfoot
Dec 8, 2010, 04:23 AM
Do you even know what a memory leak actually is ? I mean, you don't know how to write software, and pointers and memory allocation are one of the topics starting programmers struggle with the most, yet here you are, without having seeing the code at all, claiming the thing leaks memory.

How do you know they haven't free()'d a pointer correctly before issuing their next malloc() on it if you don't even know how all of this works ? :rolleyes:

At least, don't use industry jargon when doing "arm chair quarterbacking", because everytime a neophyte uses said jargon, they tend to show they have no clue.

And thanks for proving my point.

Come on now, Knight, we got your point.
BTW: Nearly all your posts I've read recently contained ranting of some sort. I mean, you usually have a point but you'd also do yourself a favour by not losing your cool every time you read something you don't like.
I know how you feel; I rolled my eyes when people started using "critique" (which is a noun) as a verb in this thread, as I usually do when language is maltreated, but I'm just learning to be cool about stuff like that – and not ranting every time I read something that's wrong is the first step.

netdog
Dec 8, 2010, 04:39 AM
Look, the OP is having noise issues on his MBA because the software is rubbish in terms of its demands on the system compared to other telecomm and videocomm programs available for the Mac.

Why on earth would anyone defend Skype as being well written software? It pounds on the processor where other software software that achieves the same ends for the end-user does not, and does not cause the problems on an MBA that Skype does.

Yeesh.

flatfoot
Dec 8, 2010, 04:46 AM
Look, the OP is having noise issues on his MBA because the software is rubbish in terms of its demands on the system compared to other telecomm and videocomm programs available for the Mac.

Why on earth would anyone defend Skype as being well written software? It pounds on the processor where other software software that achieves the same ends for the end-user does not, and does not cause the problems on an MBA that Skype does.

Yeesh.

I didn't mean he has too much of a point here. ;)

KnightWRX
Dec 8, 2010, 05:51 AM
Oh please. It doesn't take an engineer to know it's rubbish software, just like it doesn't take an automobile engineer to say that a car is rubbish.

That's not what you said, you said it leaked memory. That would be like a layman trying to claim the default lift in the CAM grind on the Ecotec engine is insufficient in a high RPM scenario where performance is what matters, and then claiming the Cobalt is a rubbish car because of it. I'd bet the car engineer would roll his eyes at you too if you tried that since he knows he's not working with variable lift cams and that his cam profile is optimized for low rpm fuel efficiency.

(yes, I do dabble in the cars a bit too, but I wouldn't dare start calling cars rubbish based on such technical choices, like your claim of "huge memory leaks" when you don't even know what causes a memory leak in the first place).

That's the difference between us I guess, I don't comment on things I don't understand. Next time, drop the jargon. Memory leak, I'm still laughing.

Come on now, Knight, we got your point.
BTW: Nearly all your posts I've read recently contained ranting of some sort. I mean, you usually have a point but you'd also do yourself a favour by not losing your cool every time you read something you don't like.

I never lose my cool. My manner of writing is simply direct and dry. It seems to me however that when I do prove someone wrong on something, they always try to come back saying they were right. I then always either get stuck dropping the topic all together or have to be dragged into some kind of unfinishable conversation that usually ends up all over the place.

People like netdog should just accept they can be wrong and adjust accordingly. I mean, how hard is "not using industry jargon when you don't have a clue what it actually means ?".

Look, the OP is having noise issues on his MBA because the software is rubbish in terms of its demands on the system compared to other telecomm and videocomm programs available for the Mac.

Why on earth would anyone defend Skype as being well written software? It pounds on the processor where other software software that achieves the same ends for the end-user does not, and does not cause the problems on an MBA that Skype does.

Yeesh.

It does ? (see attachment) :rolleyes:

Seems to me 0.4% CPU and 25MB of RAM ain't that much "pounding" and "leaking".

The point is, if you're a non-programmer, you don't know what Skype went for. Maybe they went for a better compression algorithm or a more bandwidth efficient codec, both of which would sacrifice CPU cycles to make the software more efficient on lower bandwidth or higher latency links.

Other software might make the reverse choice of using a less network efficient codec scheme, making their software run smoother on the machine, but utilizing much more network ressources, making them useless for restricted network scenarios.

The point is, Fans don't blare up because of inefficient software. That's a common misconception on these forums. Fans blare up because of heat. I can make the fans come on full blast on my MBA just by running a software update if I want. I can also make them come on full blast with the machine completely idle, if I'm willing to leave the MBA on under my warmest bed sheets.

The fact that the fans come on means the laptop is cooling itself. Either you've just "pounded the CPU" or other components which raised heat or you put the computer in a spot where its passive cooling wasn't as efficient.

poobear
Dec 8, 2010, 06:53 AM
I highly doubt Skype's goal is to "pound the CPU". Especially when Skype from my experience uses a lot less CPU in Windows, making Skype one of many apps to have been badly ported - and thus badly written software.

KnightWRX
Dec 8, 2010, 07:22 AM
I highly doubt Skype's goal is to "pound the CPU". Especially when Skype from my experience uses a lot less CPU in Windows, making Skype one of many apps to have been badly ported - and thus badly written software.

And you know this from seeing the source ? Seeing the tools used ? What if... you know... Apple doesn't provide the right APIs for Skype ? APIs Microsoft provides without any problems. The recent VDA Framework debacle kind of proves that sometimes, "poorly" ported software is Apple's fault.

Again, you guys can fault the software for being "crappy" when you've actually shown you can do better with the same requirements, especially if you want to use industry jargon like "Poorly ported" or "huge memory leaks".

kryca
Dec 8, 2010, 07:27 AM
That's not what you said, you said it leaked memory. That would be like a layman trying to claim the default lift in the CAM grind on the Ecotec engine is insufficient in a high RPM scenario where performance is what matters, and then claiming the Cobalt is a rubbish car because of it. I'd bet the car engineer would roll his eyes at you too if you tried that since he knows he's not working with variable lift cams and that his cam profile is optimized for low rpm fuel efficiency.
...bla...


I have done programming at a time when malloc() wasn't even available on the platform i was writing for. I hope that qualifies.

Next, if I look at Skype and see how it behaves, I come to the conlusion that functionality was second choice and the primary goal was to write obnoxious software to satisfy the company's paranoia. Sleek software looks different.

Thirdly, to come to that conclusion it doesn't make a millimeter difference whether I have an IT background or not. The level we are talking about is what you are able to as an informed consumer, not more and not less. I liked the car analogy.

Fourthly, I have the impression that you should try to channel your dissatisfaction in a more constructive way than to blame user's incompetence. Social and personal skills are sometimes the better ingredients for a good discussion than technical knowledge when it comes to understand the other's needs and situation.

KPOM
Dec 8, 2010, 07:41 AM
And you know this from seeing the source ? Seeing the tools used ? What if... you know... Apple doesn't provide the right APIs for Skype ? APIs Microsoft provides without any problems. The recent VDA Framework debacle kind of proves that sometimes, "poorly" ported software is Apple's fault.


Then switch to Windows and stop complaining here. Every time someone complains about software on this forum, you tell them it's their fault, or Apple's fault that the software is bad, and that they have no right to complain about software since they don't know how to write code.

Regardless of the reason, Skype for Mac is unusable for many people. Perhaps Skype had to make some trade-offs, but it seems apparent they didn't make the right ones if a lot of people are complaining about how it runs.

roadbloc
Dec 8, 2010, 07:46 AM
Is the OP using 2.8 or 5.0 beta?
I'd advise downgrading if your using the beta. It's utter junk.

KnightWRX
Dec 8, 2010, 08:04 AM
Regardless of the reason, Skype for Mac is unusable for many people. Perhaps Skype had to make some trade-offs, but it seems apparent they didn't make the right ones if a lot of people are complaining about how it runs.

Yes, the fans running as designed makes software unusable. By your definition of "unusable", I can't run Software Update on my Mac. Upgrading to 10.6.5, the fans were at over 6000 rpm the whole time on my MBA :rolleyes:

Hyperbolic statements sure don't help your cause.


Thirdly, to come to that conclusion it doesn't make a millimeter difference whether I have an IT background or not.

It does if your conclusion is that it "leaks memory". And even then a IT background is worthless. I've known tons of IT folks who wouldn't have a clue how many bits are in a uint32. Like I told that poster, don't use industry jargon if you have no clue what it means or if it even applies.

MacHamster68
Dec 8, 2010, 08:17 AM
i use skype version 2.8.0.851 , as every newer version does run more then poor on my iMac core duo , so i expect the same on the MBA, that you need to find a older version which runs better on the MBA , as the new 2.8.0.866 is i guess only suitable if you got nothing slower then a i7 iMac

Mac32
Dec 8, 2010, 08:58 AM
Duh.... what's the problem. Just use MSN 8 and delete Skype...

HLdan
Dec 8, 2010, 09:51 AM
Oh please. It doesn't take an engineer to know it's rubbish software, just like it doesn't take an automobile engineer to say that a car is rubbish.

I agree that Skype has issues as I use it everyday. Although I don't use the video chat feature, I use to make phone calls and it doesn't bog my system down. I'm on a Core i5 MBP and an i7 iMac. I do find the comments on here to be quite deplorable as I'm sure most people here aren't paying for the software. I remember getting ripped alive here for complaining that the developers for VLC refuse to continue to make the Mac version while they are full force with the Windows version. I got ripped a new one here for my comment because the VLC developers are open-source developers and I wasn't paying for the software, so some of the people here need to ask themselves if they are paying for Skype before being so critical? Also is anyone actually sending these gripes to Skype or are they just complaining here which does nothing?
For the record, I do have a yearly paid Skype subscription as I need it for business phone calls.

OP, if fan noise is your only issue, then that's great. Sure, all other software will run differently depending on how it's coded (FLASH....), but if the fans are running high, let them, it's keeping your computer cool. You guys are getting too spoiled by this expected "Perfect" experience on Apple's products, at the end of the day, it's still a machine.

Jaro65
Dec 8, 2010, 10:44 AM
Unless you specifically understand what you're talking about and the software packages you're comparing and do a full comparison, not just a selective one, you really can't go around claiming an app is "badly" written.


I'm not sure I completely agree. We don't have to discuss the s/w architecture but rather a user experience. Everyone can have his/her opinions regarding the user experience. I can hop in a car, take it for a spin, and decide whether it performs well (or not). And I don't need to be a mechanical engineer in order to do so. I suggest that the similar comparisons apply across any products that we use. Now, how competent my assessment is going to be compared to the overall user experience (or compared to an expert opinion) is going to be very subjective. Nevertheless, one is still entitled to his/her opinion.

aarond12
Dec 8, 2010, 10:57 AM
I do find the comments on here to be quite deplorable as I'm sure most people here aren't paying for the software.
Yes, Skype is free unless you subscribe to the business plan, as you have. However, whether you use Skype's services for free or you pay for them, CPU utilization is a bit high. They are likely not using the built-in hardware acceleration for decoding/encoding the video stream, likely because not all Macs support it yet. Can't fault Skype for that.

For those of you complaining about CPU utilization, try ooVoo. My wife's 2.4GHz Core2Duo MacBook goes to nearly 175% CPU utilization (remember, two cores) and the fans are going like crazy during the entire video conference.

Video manipulation is quite CPU-intensive. When something uses a lot of CPU time, the CPU will get hot and the fans will have to speed up. Just a fact of life, until these applications get re-written to use OpenCL or other hardware acceleration methods.

KPOM
Dec 8, 2010, 12:17 PM
Video manipulation is quite CPU-intensive. When something uses a lot of CPU time, the CPU will get hot and the fans will have to speed up. Just a fact of life, until these applications get re-written to use OpenCL or other hardware acceleration methods.

Therein lies the question. When will these programs be rewritten to use OpenCL or other hardware acceleration methods? Snow Leopard has been out a year now. Is it too difficult to program in OpenCL? Are there other obstacles? Is it too difficult to write a "universal" binary that will scale itself for operating systems that have OpenCL (e.g. 10.6) and those that don't (10.5)? These are questions, not rhetorical. Is it simply a matter of programmers needing to make better use of what's been given to them, or are there other obstacles?

Schorsch0815
Dec 8, 2010, 03:20 PM
I use skype vdo alot. When i bought the 13" MBA it went up to 5000+ rpm. Way beyond comfort level. In the end I returned it. I still miss that machine, but the performance under Skype was the KO criterium.

Can anyone tell me whether iCHAT is performing better? If I can find a solution using vdo chat on MBA without the hissing fan, I am definitly going for MBA.

mstrze
Dec 8, 2010, 09:31 PM
I know how you feel; I rolled my eyes when people started using "critique" (which is a noun) as a verb in this thread, as I usually do when language is maltreated, but I'm just learning to be cool about stuff like that – and not ranting every time I read something that's wrong is the first step.

This is way off-topic, but "critique" is most certainly a verb.

My wife critiques dance performances for her job as a web and print reviewer.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/critique
"–verb (used with object)
4. to review or analyze critically."

http://www.audioenglish.net/dictionary/critique.htm
"• CRITIQUE (verb)
The verb CRITIQUE has 1 sense:
1. appraise critically"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/critique?show=1&t=1291865279
"2 critique verb
transitive verb
: to examine critically : review <critique the plan>"

Now if you are criticizing the fact that people are using it to simply mean finding fault with...or criticizing rather than evaluating or reviewing in a more neutral sense, then you might have something, but it is most certainly a verb.

Meric
Dec 8, 2010, 10:06 PM
Is the OP using 2.8 or 5.0 beta?
I'd advise downgrading if your using the beta. It's utter junk.

i have the 2.8.0.866 version...

Duh.... what's the problem. Just use MSN 8 and delete Skype...

I need to stick to skype cuz I am using an online number....

also can I talk/video talk with my skype contacts in msn 8 ?

voice chat is no problem...video makes the fans run..

my gateway pc laptop used to act the same under vista...

looks the software is bound to cpu on video chat... the only solution would be having gpu do some work... or.... ?

anybody having same issue on more powerful imacs or macbooks?

what is the webcam resolution in mba's ? HD ?

is there anyway to lower the resolution which might get some load off of the cpu ?

Schorsch0815
Dec 9, 2010, 12:14 AM
I just checked other newsgroups. Common knowlege is that CPU and fan go high with iChat as well. So it looks like a Mac issue, not some dumb Skype port.

I am using Sykpe on Thinkpad and on Fujitsu Siemens and I harldy hear the fan spinning.

VDO connection on laptop is a sine qua non for me. In my opinion Apple still has to do their home work here.

poobear
Dec 9, 2010, 02:14 AM
So it looks like a Mac issue, not some dumb Skype port.
What is that conclusion, who said iChat was written well? Google Video and MSN 8 on Mac don't pound the CPU as much.

Schorsch0815
Dec 9, 2010, 03:29 AM
When I had the MBA I checked Google vdo. Would kick up the fan same as Skype.

KnightWRX
Dec 9, 2010, 05:28 AM
I'm not sure I completely agree. We don't have to discuss the s/w architecture but rather a user experience. Everyone can have his/her opinions regarding the user experience. I can hop in a car, take it for a spin, and decide whether it performs well (or not). And I don't need to be a mechanical engineer in order to do so. I suggest that the similar comparisons apply across any products that we use. Now, how competent my assessment is going to be compared to the overall user experience (or compared to an expert opinion) is going to be very subjective. Nevertheless, one is still entitled to his/her opinion.

So you're saying you can tell if a software package is "badly written" by judging something as subjective as user experience ? Bullocks. You can't tell the quality of the code unless you've seen the code. You can't say it leaks memory unless you actually know what a memory leak is (which the poster who affirmed Skype leaked memory had no clue what it even meant to leak memory).

A piece of code can be very well written and still offer bad experience to some users. That's because user experience is entirely subjective. Take the dreaded car analogy, you can hop into a Ford F250 and then start driving the thing into the pavement with high RPM shifts and tire burning peel outs and finish up by saying to the sales guy that performance was poor, handling in the curves wasn't all that and that you'll go elsewhere for your sports car...

well no duh. Needs dictate experience. Skype for me serves my needs as a phone. I don't use it to video chat, I don't use it to socialise, I use it for one thing : save minutes on my cell plan. 2.95$/month, unlimited calling. Works like a charm. Others might not like the video chat function compared to say MSN 8, but then again, they might just not like the compromises Skype chose for their video features. Maybe MSN 8 works like crap on lower bandwidth connections, maybe Skype has better video quality but they don't care, it's all pretty subjective until you've run objective benchmarks, which none of the posters here did.

That's basically my point. Either show us you can do better or don't pretend your opinion is fact. And if you want to state an opinion, don't use industry jargon if you don't even know what it means. I doubt anyone here would give their opinion on a car by saying "the fuel atomisation coming from the injectors is coarse, lowering fuel economy significantly" without actually knowing what it means, so I don't see why so many people want to pretend they are knowledgeable on the inner workings of software when they aren't.

KPOM
Dec 9, 2010, 05:37 AM
That's basically my point. Either show us you can do better or don't pretend your opinion is fact. And if you want to state an opinion, don't use industry jargon if you don't even know what it means. I doubt anyone here would give their opinion on a car by saying "the fuel atomisation coming from the injectors is coarse, lowering fuel economy significantly" without actually knowing what it means, so I don't see why so many people want to pretend they are knowledgeable on the inner workings of software when they aren't.

I don't know the first thing about auto engineering, but I can get into a Chevy Cobalt and conclude that it is poorly designed because its crash test results are poor, it handles very sloppily, and has very light steering. I can also drive a Chevy Cruze and conclude that it has a much better design because it scores better on the crash tests and has tight handling and steering. User experience may be subjective, but what defines a product as successful in the marketplace is whether it is accepted by the market, and user interface is a big part of that.

If a program doesn't offer a good user experience to most people who try to use it, then it doesn't have a good design. It may have efficient programming and be capable of being a good program, but until the user experience issues are resolved for enough users, it is missing a key element of a good design.

Symbian fans will argue until their blue in the face about how superior the design of their OS is over iOS and Android. From a technical standpoint, perhaps they are right. But that doesn't really matter since the latter two are winning over the marketplace.

KnightWRX
Dec 9, 2010, 05:45 AM
I don't know the first thing about auto engineering, but I can get into a Chevy Cobalt and conclude that it is poorly designed because its crash test results are poor, it handles very sloppily, and has very light steering. I can also drive a Chevy Cruze and conclude that it has a much better design because it scores better on the crash tests and has tight handling and steering. User experience may be subjective, but what defines a product as successful in the marketplace is whether it is accepted by the market, and user interface is a big part of that.

If a program doesn't offer a good user experience to most people who try to use it, then it doesn't have a good design. It may have efficient programming and be capable of being a good program, but until the user experience issues are resolved for enough users, it is missing a key element of a good design.

Symbian fans will argue until their blue in the face about how superior the design of their OS is over iOS and Android. From a technical standpoint, perhaps they are right. But that doesn't really matter since the latter two are winning over the marketplace.

Again, none of which have to do with "Memory Leaks" and "Pounding CPU". :rolleyes: Why are you purposely ignoring my point ? My point is again for you since you can't seem to grasp it : Don't use industry jargon to pretend your opinion is fact.

"Skype is more heavy on CPU use in my experience, causing heat issues that make the fans spin at max rpm" is a valid obversation, if you've actually bothered to observe it. "Skype leaks memory" isn't, especially if you don't know what a memory leak is.

You want to tell me that I rant on and on, and then you people that answer my posts always put words in my mouth I didn't say. Try to read and understand my rants if you want to answer them and maybe I won't have to post again and again in the same thread rehashing the same things over and over again. Simple concept ? Macrumors forums are such a poor user experience.

KPOM
Dec 9, 2010, 05:49 AM
"Memory leak" may be technical jargon, but I don't think that "pounding the CPU" is. The latter is just a casual term that CPU activity goes up significantly when the program is running.

KnightWRX
Dec 9, 2010, 06:05 AM
"Memory leak" may be technical jargon, but I don't think that "pounding the CPU" is. The latter is just a casual term that CPU activity goes up significantly when the program is running.

Just look at my screenshot posted earlier and tell me Skype "pounds" the CPU when it is running. 0.4% CPU isn't pounding. Finder uses more at idle. You'll say "well, you weren't doing video encoding/decoding at the time". Sure I wasn't, but then let's look at the technology choices Skype did in order to understand why it seems to use more CPU. What codec do they use ? What types of API does Apple provide for these codecs ? What levels of compression, quality are they using, etc.. ?

All things that need to be analysed before saying "Skype is badly written software" (this is the industry jargon, saying the code is bad) because it "pounds the cpu". Simply saying Skype programmers are poor coders, especially coming from a non-programmer, is what people should refrain from doing if they don't want to get rebutted. That's all I'm saying.

andrewsd
Dec 10, 2010, 05:28 AM
Yes, use a 3rd party utility to control your fans so they never go over 2000 rpm. However, you might not like the result at all.

The fans start up for a reason, that's because your MacBook is generating heat. There's no fan API that software uses to start or stop the fans, it's all about the heat sensors. CPU usage = heat.



I'd like to see you write an application that both encodes and decodes video and sound in real-time that doesn't pound on the processor. I swear people that say "poorly written software" probably never wrote a damn line of code in their life.

I have used both iChat and Skype(skype a lot) as I am abroad a decent amount. I am also no programmer but I can tell you this that Skype taxes my system a good deal more then iChat and a few other similar applications. So take my 2 cents for what is is, just my 2 cents but Skype usually does cause more fan/cpu usage and system boggle ups.

With that said I am defiantly not saying it is poorly written especially because I couldn't in my right mind do a better job. PLus I use the heck out of skype so even with its "shortcomings" I still say it is an alright program that still needs and could be updated and made to operate more smoothly.