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View Full Version : Mac Mini a hit! And its orders are only beginning to ship!


gopher
Jan 21, 2005, 10:02 PM
http://www.thestreet.com/_googlen/tech/hardware/10204618.html?cm_ven=GOOGLEN&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

Well who knows, maybe Apple will be able to surprise pundits and make the Mac mini the next iPod!

sjpetry
Jan 21, 2005, 10:22 PM
How high do you think Apple's Market Share will be one year from now?

~10% ?

Daveway
Jan 21, 2005, 10:34 PM
How high do you think Apple's Market Share will be one year from now?

~10% ?

I wish it were so, but it may be a bit optimistic.

sjpetry
Jan 21, 2005, 10:36 PM
I wish it were so, but it may be a bit optimistic.

I can always hope. How about 10% +-7%. :cool:

Daveway
Jan 21, 2005, 10:42 PM
Apple just had its best quarter in history and market share only went up .1%. :o

But, this constraint issue is nothing new. If Apple actually had the products they sell they would be doing fantastic in computer sales.

Lacero
Jan 21, 2005, 10:45 PM
I don't think Apple can make computers fast enough to even raise their marketshare 1%!

gco212
Jan 21, 2005, 11:08 PM
Maybe 7%-10% of new computers sold, but not total marketshare. Also, does marketshare include every computer, including those from the early 90's, or is it just those from the past year, or what.

nylon
Jan 21, 2005, 11:42 PM
Quoted from an article from LinuxInsider (http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/39826.html) .

"In reality, Apple's declining relative market share measured in dollars has been due more to the expense of Wintel product churn than to a fall-off of interest among Mac users. Over the longer term, Apple's unit sales have consistently increased; what caused the decline in Apple's annual share of market dollars has been growth in revenue to the PC sellers.

In other words, it's Wintel's rapid upgrade cycle that's been getting progressively more and more out of line with norms for industrial or retail electronics products, and therefore not falling interest in the Mac, that's behind the numbers. Think about this for a minute: If PCs remained usable as long as Macs do, industrywide total revenues (aka customer costs) would be nearly two-thirds lower."

Koodauw
Jan 22, 2005, 12:17 AM
Quoted from an article from LinuxInsider (http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/39826.html) .

"In reality, Apple's declining relative market share measured in dollars has been due more to the expense of Wintel product churn than to a fall-off of interest among Mac users. Over the longer term, Apple's unit sales have consistently increased; what caused the decline in Apple's annual share of market dollars has been growth in revenue to the PC sellers.

In other words, it's Wintel's rapid upgrade cycle that's been getting progressively more and more out of line with norms for industrial or retail electronics products, and therefore not falling interest in the Mac, that's behind the numbers. Think about this for a minute: If PCs remained usable as long as Macs do, industrywide total revenues (aka customer costs) would be nearly two-thirds lower."

Hummm... Very interesting, so are we to assume that market share is being measured in dollars rather than units?

BWhaler
Jan 22, 2005, 01:15 AM
I don't think Apple can make computers fast enough to even raise their marketshare 1%!

sniff...sniff...sniff...I smell an Apple Hater Troll.

Try a girlfriend for attention. It's a much better time.

Damien
Jan 22, 2005, 02:47 AM
sniff...sniff...sniff...I smell an Apple Hater Troll.

Try a girlfriend for attention. It's a much better time.

I dont think it was an apple hater troll. He was just saying that he doubts that the massive amount of units required to make 10% of the market may be beyound apples current resources. 10% is an awful lot

dejo
Jan 22, 2005, 03:01 AM
I dont think it was an apple hater troll. He was just saying that he doubts that the massive amount of units required to make 10% of the market may be beyound apples current resources. 10% is an awful lot

10% is an awful lot. But Lacero was questioning even a 1% increase. That's gotta be a lot more achievable.

dejo
Jan 22, 2005, 03:04 AM
Apple just had its best quarter in history and market share only went up .1%. :o

But, this constraint issue is nothing new. If Apple actually had the products they sell they would be doing fantastic in computer sales.

Yeah, if only Apple was able to accurately predict demand for a brand-new product as well as you seem to claim.

Fredstar
Jan 22, 2005, 04:11 AM
Sorry guys right but Apple's Market Share will never reach 10% in a year and not even in 5. Apple will no way even be able to create that many computers (Mini's) even if they doubled their capacity miraculously even if the demand was there.
I think we are looking at a max figure of increase of 1/1.5% and that would be one hell of an achievement.

dejo
Jan 22, 2005, 04:31 AM
Sorry guys right but Apple's Market Share will never reach 10% in a year and not even in 5. Apple will no way even be able to create that many computers (Mini's) even if they doubled their capacity miraculously even if the demand was there.
I think we are looking at a max figure of increase of 1/1.5% and that would be one hell of an achievement.

Anybody have any idea approx. how many computers a 1% increase would equate to?

Fredstar
Jan 22, 2005, 04:49 AM
Well considering Apple sell about a million macs a quarter (being generous) then i guess at 2% there are 4 millions Mac's sold per annum so we are looking at about a 200 million unit per annum computer market.
So to increase their market share from 2 to 3 Apple would need to ship an extra 2 million units a year and increasing its present capacity by 50% at least. That is quite an increase in capacity and that is for only a 1% increase.

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 22, 2005, 06:47 AM
Sorry guys right but Apple's Market Share will never reach 10% in a year and not even in 5. Apple will no way even be able to create that many computers (Mini's) even if they doubled their capacity miraculously even if the demand was there.
I think we are looking at a max figure of increase of 1/1.5% and that would be one hell of an achievement.

You have a point. At the current rate of production, the Mac mini tops out at 1.2 million units a year. And just how much more capacity does the company that builds it have for more units? I doubt that Apple would want to farm this out to other companies for production.

Thomas Veil
Jan 22, 2005, 07:16 AM
Let's put this into perspective, too: the original iMac and the "desklamp" both sold very well coming out of the gate...but fell off with time.

It's too early to say that the Mac mini will be a hit like the iPod...though we can sure hope! What speaks in favor of the mini sustaining high sales is the interest shown in it because of its price point. If the high price of Macs is what truly has kept some people from switching, then they don't have that excuse anymore, and Mac mini sales will continue to be healthy.

In other words...initial sales are encouraging, but let's see what happens over time.

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 22, 2005, 07:51 AM
Let's put this into perspective, too: the original iMac and the "desklamp" both sold very well coming out of the gate...but fell off with time.

It's too early to say that the Mac mini will be a hit like the iPod...though we can sure hope! What speaks in favor of the mini sustaining high sales is the interest shown in it because of its price point. If the high price of Macs is what truly has kept some people from switching, then they don't have that excuse anymore, and Mac mini sales will continue to be healthy.

In other words...initial sales are encouraging, but let's see what happens over time.

I agree. It will be interesting to see a year from know as to how the Mac mini is doing. Sort of like my Subu Baja. They planned on 1200 a units a month sold. I think that did that in the first couple of months. Now they struggle to get 600 to 800 units sold.

toughboy
Jan 22, 2005, 08:22 AM
Mac mini will be a great hit, as there is nothing close to mac mini in the current market (in the quality of an Apple product)

Apple needs more advertising and they beat the crap out of m$

Fredstar
Jan 22, 2005, 08:35 AM
Yeh advertising is the key, but now through the hundred odd retail stores Apple can inform a lot more people. It is quite funny seeing people pass by the store in Regent street and just stop when they see the imac :p, imagine when they see the Mini
Does anyone know of some kind of advert being made for the Mini?

Chimera
Jan 22, 2005, 10:22 AM
Yeh advertising is the key, but now through the hundred odd retail stores Apple can inform a lot more people. It is quite funny seeing people pass by the store in Regent street and just stop when they see the imac :p, imagine when they see the Mini
Does anyone know of some kind of advert being made for the Mini?

You're right walking past the Regent Street store is funny, children with their hands and noses up against the windows having a look while their parents just want to get on. They must have to wash those windows quite regularly.

I imagine there is a mac mini ad in production but won't be released until supply problems are sorted out.

Frank

stcanard
Jan 22, 2005, 12:09 PM
Hummm... Very interesting, so are we to assume that market share is being measured in dollars rather than units?

There are a lot of question marks that make "market share" a bad comparison. Remember that most of these "market share" numbers are being throuwn around by outlets that want to try and make Apple look bad (Dell, CNet, etc).

My guess is they are measuring in in units sold. Why? Apple's premium prices would give them an advantantage if you measured by revenue.

Are they counting all computers sold, or trying to make a calculation of what computers are actually in active use? Good question, I have never seen anybody mention that. If they're talking units moved over a decade, that would give Apple an artificial disadvantage, because Apple users tend to hold onto their hardware longer. So a 50 - 1 sales ratio (2%) might actually translate into a 4% market share of computers actually in use.

Then, as Jack at http://appleturns.com is fond of pointing out, this includes all the bulk corporate purchases and all the embedded system purchases. If you look at market share in the actual "personal" space, again Apple starts to look a lot better.

If you factor all of that in: remove the "throwaway" PC's, remove the corporate bulk purchases and just look at computers actually being used in people's houses, what would the Mac market share be then? I've never seen a number that even tries for that, and yet it seems it would be useful for companies to be able to effectively target their marketing.

So overall market share is a completely useless statistic that can be manipulated to mean whatever someone wants. More important is corporate health. Revenue growth, sales growth, expense reduction, mindshare, expanding into new markets...

When you look at those, who is one of the healthiest company in the industry?

CubaTBird
Jan 22, 2005, 12:36 PM
i think the mac mini won't be a hit... two usb ports... filled with pc keyboard and mouse... customer says..eh.. where do i plug in the printer?scanner?joystick?usb mp3 player?gnaw!!!

nyprospect
Jan 22, 2005, 01:06 PM
If Apple would make as much commericials for the mini during mtv's shows then the minis would spark more interest.Dell is all over the place on tv and cable.HP as well.The time is now for apple to step up and explain why a mac would be a better choice then a pc.

Savage Henry
Jan 22, 2005, 01:28 PM
i think the mac mini won't be a hit... two usb ports... filled with pc keyboard and mouse... customer says..eh.. where do i plug in the printer?scanner?joystick?usb mp3 player?gnaw!!!

I disagree. People I know who only thought Apple was a fruit until they bought an iPod will tip-toe into the realm of the Macintosh. The mini - thought reticent I was at the start of the rumours - seems an ideal opportunity for your normal person just to tune in to their mail, safe internet, word processing and music downloading.

I admit that many minis have been bought by the hardcore fanatics, but this thing will not go Cube.

Chappers
Feb 11, 2005, 03:35 AM
Saw a mini on Saturday - last week.... t was very nice.

Platform
Feb 11, 2005, 03:46 AM
I don't think Apple can make computers fast enough to even raise their marketshare 1%!

When did apple's computers become slow :confused:

ftaok
Feb 11, 2005, 07:56 AM
Maybe 7%-10% of new computers sold, but not total marketshare. Also, does marketshare include every computer, including those from the early 90's, or is it just those from the past year, or what.Marketshare is a measure of how many units of one particular brand sold compared to the total number of units sold in a PARTICULAR time frame. When people throw around numbers like 2-3%, they are usually referring to last year's marketshare or the most recent quarter. The numbers quoted by financial people is never the "user base" percentage. That's just too hard to accurately estimate.

The marketshare numbers are usually compiled by a company called Gartner, although there are others. They almost always indicate what time frame the numbers are based on. Not sure what the typical timeframe is used for PCs/Macs, but for cell phones, it's usually the most recent quarter.

ft

kettle
Feb 11, 2005, 08:16 AM
When did apple's computers become slow :confused:

I think "speed of production" was meant by quickly, not the mac itself.

Production not performance.

JeffTL
Feb 11, 2005, 08:36 AM
I think "speed of production" was meant by quickly, not the mac itself.

Production not performance.

The original production commenter has a valid point.

Whenever Apple has an extremely successful product they have a hard time getting the merchandise in from Asia fast enough. But sure as the world if when that happened they got a second manufacturing contract the demand would subside by the time the second plant was getting goods to market.

Platform
Feb 11, 2005, 08:47 AM
I think "speed of production" was meant by quickly, not the mac itself.

Production not performance.

Oh well in that case I understand
The shipment of mac's do take ages, it seem's as the previous model come to you when the next rev is out :eek:

zami
Feb 11, 2005, 10:32 AM
The original production commenter has a valid point.

Whenever Apple has an extremely successful product they have a hard time getting the merchandise in from Asia fast enough. But sure as the world if when that happened they got a second manufacturing contract the demand would subside by the time the second plant was getting goods to market.

It's not just production that is the problem but the whole Apple attitude. Today I went to the Apple Store in London to buy an iPod Shuffle for a friend. The queue at the tills is frankly taking the piss, if they can't be bothered to sell you the stuff it's no wonder there are production problems.

Sadly the architecture of the shop with its huge atrium and stairs with everything a long walk away in the distance follows classical fascist architectural themes and left me feeling very uneasy about the company itself. Apple needs to remind itself that bombastic american imperialism is not well seen among a huge number of europeans. As a european myself I just wish we did not have to buy US controlled products but we have little choice while chip production lies in the hands of IBM, Intel, AMD, Motorola etc.

:(

RealDeal
Feb 11, 2005, 11:13 AM
It's not just production that is the problem but the whole Apple attitude. Today I went to the Apple Store in London to buy an iPod Shuffle for a friend. The queue at the tills is frankly taking the piss, if they can't be bothered to sell you the stuff it's no wonder there are production problems. :(

In Vancouver (a somewhat scruffy shop rather than fancy)- I visited the shop 6 times (before the latest new releases), and was very interested in products, yet the staff seemed to hover around scruffy "cool" folks rather than myself in business-casual. I never returned and spent most my dollars at the online Apple store...

Wrt the production capacity, depending on volume cycles for the contract electronics manufacturers, relatively quick to line up another 200-400% of capacity, so ramping up to 8% isn't impossible in a 1 year window (yet the workflow capability of online store, and retail outlets remains untested at this level- maybe bottlenecks there). Think about how PC sales are (up or down), and how Xbox/PS2x sales are (up/down) and can start getting a feel for the industry. For example, some industries like automotive manufacturing have a global excess capacity of some 60% (30 million plus units).

Another big clue is how fast are Apple hiring new staff, authorising new Apple stores and extending their resources and distribution networks.

durvivor
Feb 11, 2005, 12:04 PM
So, nobody really knows what market share means. I say we put that behind us and concentrate on the future.

What do we have to do to get a question on the 2010 Census?

How many personal computers do you have in your household? _2_
Please list each machine by brand _Apple, HP___
Are your computers networked

It will be perfect, after 2010 Census results are released we will be able to know how many Apples are out there and in use, compared to the Dells, and others.

Plus, the computers that we use for our jobs won't skew the results.

Who's with me.

daveL
Feb 11, 2005, 12:48 PM
It's not just production that is the problem but the whole Apple attitude. Today I went to the Apple Store in London to buy an iPod Shuffle for a friend. The queue at the tills is frankly taking the piss, if they can't be bothered to sell you the stuff it's no wonder there are production problems.

Sadly the architecture of the shop with its huge atrium and stairs with everything a long walk away in the distance follows classical fascist architectural themes and left me feeling very uneasy about the company itself. Apple needs to remind itself that bombastic american imperialism is not well seen among a huge number of europeans. As a european myself I just wish we did not have to buy US controlled products but we have little choice while chip production lies in the hands of IBM, Intel, AMD, Motorola etc.

:(
Wow. Taking things a bit seriously, aren't we? Maybe you should try a Russian PC running Linux (I'd install my own Linux distro, from a trusted source, if I were you).

jaromski
Feb 11, 2005, 12:51 PM
So, nobody really knows what market share means. I say we put that behind us and concentrate on the future.

What do we have to do to get a question on the 2010 Census?

How many personal computers do you have in your household? _2_
Please list each machine by brand _Apple, HP___
Are your computers networked

It will be perfect, after 2010 Census results are released we will be able to know how many Apples are out there and in use, compared to the Dells, and others.

Plus, the computers that we use for our jobs won't skew the results.

Who's with me.

A simpler measure would be to check apache logs on a represenative sample of web servers and see what web clients are used. I have a small web site and according to my logs there are 58.% MS IE, 34% Netscape, and the rest Mozilla Firefox. It shows 20% Mac, and 80% Windows too. My sample size is pretty small but it has shown a downward trend over the last four months for IE usage and Netscape + Firefox usage has gone up.

Of course this limits your stats to networked machines and assumes the user's browser identifies itself correctly (.e.g the user didn't send a fake agent id) but I would say it is pretty accurate for the most part.

If you could sample across all types of web sites it would really start to paint an interesting picture. As for non-networked machines there really isn't a good way to handle those unless you sent out mail surveys or something.

-jaromski

jaromski
Feb 11, 2005, 01:00 PM
It's not just production that is the problem but the whole Apple attitude. Today I went to the Apple Store in London to buy an iPod Shuffle for a friend. The queue at the tills is frankly taking the piss, if they can't be bothered to sell you the stuff it's no wonder there are production problems.

Sadly the architecture of the shop with its huge atrium and stairs with everything a long walk away in the distance follows classical fascist architectural themes and left me feeling very uneasy about the company itself. Apple needs to remind itself that bombastic american imperialism is not well seen among a huge number of europeans. As a european myself I just wish we did not have to buy US controlled products but we have little choice while chip production lies in the hands of IBM, Intel, AMD, Motorola etc.

:(

Yeah I noticed that Europeans have a penchant for disdain when it comes to the American pigdog capitalist/imperialists. The problem I have is that although some of the criticisms are valid I think the interesting thing to note is before America came on the scene as the current imperial overlords the Brits, French, Dutch, etc., were all doing rather nicely for themselves in the imperialist fashion. Who controlled Africa, India, and the colonies in the Americas? Gee it wasn't the Americans. Can't blame that one on the ******* Americans.

I think it all amounts to a bunch of sour grapes with the Europeans/British vs. the Americans. Europe and Britain were the cultural and economic powerhouse of yesteryear. A few World Wars tipped the balance of power to the Americans for the time being but in reality, regardless of nationality, race, religion, most people are *******s and will use others to achieve their ends...for as long as they can get away with it.

So it might help y'all to feel smug and superior to Americans but in the end game your past is just as checkered and just as littered with bodies of those who stood in your way, in between your nation realizing its interests, etc.

-jaromski

Dont Hurt Me
Feb 11, 2005, 01:18 PM
Mac Mini is a hit how do i know? because iam sending this from a new Mini. Awesome little machine. Only time i can hear it is when everything in the home is off. I noticed the fan speeds up while gaming and slows down after. This is a cool cool little computer. Took all my stuff off my old mac so i havent had to put 1 program on it. Just Awesome! 5 out of 5 stars. It would get 6 out of 5 if it had 64MB video :D So happy to be back on the Mac.

solvs
Feb 11, 2005, 02:37 PM
So happy to be back on the Mac.
Glad to have you back. :)

The Mac mini is great, and I think it will sell well to it's market, as long as it keeps up. I don't blame Apple for keeping a low quantity at first. They've been hit with overstocks before, and that really hurts the bottom line. But they need to get this thing out there. Everybody wants one, and they have to sell while they can.

Market share isn't that big of a deal, but I suspect they're already at about 10%. The problem is that they only sell about 2% overall, and that's including cash registers, servers, workstations. And they seem to be happy being profitable, but not huge. I suspect that may slowly change, but if you notice Steve has been biding his time. I think once Tiger hits, and they have more G5s to go around, they'll really explode. Now is the prime time to do so too with a lot of peopel getting fed up with M$.

While the Switch campaign wasn't a huge success, it wasn't exactly a failure. And the iPod and Retail Stores have helped more than you'd think. Apple's name is getting out there, and making a dent, and that's all they need to remain viable.

Dont Hurt Me
Feb 11, 2005, 03:07 PM
There isnt much mini about the mini but two things. The size and its 32mb video. There isnt a reason for it not to have 64. Anways UT2003 runs fine so that means 98% of all games can still run on it. Sleek,small and beautiful. People are crazy to put up with windows when something like this is available. My office is silent,my desk is back and the thing is just :cool: :D

takao
Feb 11, 2005, 03:21 PM
There isnt much mini about the mini but two things. The size and its 32mb video. There isnt a reason for it not to have 64. Anways UT2003 runs fine so that means 98% of all games can still run on it. Sleek,small and beautiful. People are crazy to put up with windows when something like this is available. My office is silent,my desk is back and the thing is just :cool: :D

good to hear that ut2003 runs ok ...i hope this will stop me from gnawing off a hand or something if my delivery will be delayed next week (like i already see it coming...)

4 weeks since i've ordered ...waiting for your computer is much worse than waiting for big apple events ....


tommorow i'm gonna look around if they got a mini in any stores around...but i doubt it....

Dont Hurt Me
Feb 11, 2005, 03:31 PM
When i say ok i mean at 800 x 600 with normal settings, still the only thing holding down the mini is the GPU. I think a 1.42 G4 multitasks better then my AMD 3500 did. Movies play great, when word gets out on these apple wont be able to keep up. Very solid little machine. Mine took 5 days from China. Not bad at all.

JzzTrump22
Feb 11, 2005, 03:48 PM
It's just going to take time. Eventually Apple will gain more and more of the market. Especially with the Mac Mini.

Mitthrawnuruodo
Feb 11, 2005, 04:07 PM
It's just going to take time. Eventually Apple will gain more and more of the market. Especially with the Mac Mini.

I agree, but not only the mini will be the decisive line, don't forget that a high percentage of machines sold (in the private marked) are portables, and that the iBooks (and PowerBooks) will take a big bite of that, growing marked.

Hopefully "we" may get over 5% again, and then take it from there. Not sure world domination is a good thing in itself...

Mord
Feb 11, 2005, 04:54 PM
I don't think Apple can make computers fast enough to even raise their marketshare 1%!

apple dose not make macs they design them, IBM will be able to keep up demand if the demand is there to ramp up fabrication, the macs themselves are made by foxcom and asus, which comes as a shock to pc types :p

Blue Velvet
Feb 11, 2005, 05:42 PM
It's not just production that is the problem but the whole Apple attitude. Today I went to the Apple Store in London to buy an iPod Shuffle for a friend. The queue at the tills is frankly taking the piss, if they can't be bothered to sell you the stuff it's no wonder there are production problems.

Sadly the architecture of the shop with its huge atrium and stairs with everything a long walk away in the distance follows classical fascist architectural themes and left me feeling very uneasy about the company itself. Apple needs to remind itself that bombastic american imperialism is not well seen among a huge number of europeans. As a european myself I just wish we did not have to buy US controlled products but we have little choice while chip production lies in the hands of IBM, Intel, AMD, Motorola etc.

:(


Is this the very same Regent St, Apple Store where I picked up my Shuffle tonight?

It's a computer store. What do you want -- incense, potted plants, woodgrain & whale-song?

First you complain about the queue, then the long walk (of all of about 20 metres :rolleyes: ) The store is big precisely because it needs to handle the amount of people that are in there without it getting cramped, hence the wide stairs...

I don't recall Albert Speer being a big fan of atriums...

panphage
Feb 11, 2005, 05:47 PM
i think the mac mini won't be a hit... two usb ports... filled with pc keyboard and mouse... customer says..eh.. where do i plug in the printer?scanner?joystick?usb mp3 player?gnaw!!!
Hrmm...my two pcs only have two usb ports each...most people with 500--err, several peripherals like you're saying will have a hub anyway. Heck, I've got two hubs, one in my monitor, one in my keyboard (but I'm an apple fanboy...)

feakbeak
Feb 11, 2005, 06:58 PM
When i say ok i mean at 800 x 600 with normal settings, still the only thing holding down the mini is the GPU. I think a 1.42 G4 multitasks better then my AMD 3500 did. Movies play great, when word gets out on these apple wont be able to keep up. Very solid little machine. Mine took 5 days from China. Not bad at all.

You think the 1.42 GHz mini multitasks better than the Athlon 3500? Wow, I have an old 1.4 GHz Athlon with 512 MB, a 9600 SE w/128 MB and it multitasks rather well for being 3.5 years old. I run Firefox, Thunderbird, Trillian, iTunes constantly with services running in the background (webserver, MySQL and Prime95 not to mention the usual - Norton, etc.) I'm also a programmer and have no problem running a VMWare session and compiling in VS.NET 2003 at the same time. Could your Windows machine be bogged down with malware?

I have a Mac mini 1.42 GHz (full specs in sig) on the way. I just ordered last week and it is supposed to ship on March 3rd. I am expecting my Mac mini to be on par with my PC perhaps a little snappier with Apple's software since it's optimized for their hardware. I played with a mini at the local Apple store and performance was decent, but it only had the stock 256 MB. I'm getting 512 MB in my mini because I didn't want to pay Apple for the gig stick. How much memory did you get in your mini? I'll probably be asking around the boards if 1 GB really helps the mini fly I might upgrade it myself. Most reviewers said 512 MB was the sweet spot, we'll see.

Still, if the mini performs as well as you say I will be very impressed. Now I just have to wait...

Dont Hurt Me
Feb 11, 2005, 07:37 PM
You think the 1.42 GHz mini multitasks better than the Athlon 3500? Wow, I have an old 1.4 GHz Athlon with 512 MB, a 9600 SE w/128 MB and it multitasks rather well for being 3.5 years old. I run Firefox, Thunderbird, Trillian, iTunes constantly with services running in the background (webserver, MySQL and Prime95 not to mention the usual - Norton, etc.) I'm also a programmer and have no problem running a VMWare session and compiling in VS.NET 2003 at the same time. Could your Windows machine be bogged down with malware?

I have a Mac mini 1.42 GHz (full specs in sig) on the way. I just ordered last week and it is supposed to ship on March 3rd. I am expecting my Mac mini to be on par with my PC perhaps a little snappier with Apple's software since it's optimized for their hardware. I played with a mini at the local Apple store and performance was decent, but it only had the stock 256 MB. I'm getting 512 MB in my mini because I didn't want to pay Apple for the gig stick. How much memory did you get in your mini? I'll probably be asking around the boards if 1 GB really helps the mini fly I might upgrade it myself. Most reviewers said 512 MB was the sweet spot, we'll see.

Still, if the mini performs as well as you say I will be very impressed. Now I just have to wait...I have 512 in it but may stick in 1 gig so it matches my quicksilver. My mini is a 1.42. I have never been impressed by the multitasking of my 3500+ but again it had to be running antivirus all the time.

lbodnar
Feb 12, 2005, 01:21 PM
Anybody have any idea approx. how many computers a 1% increase would equate to?In Q4 2004 there were about 50 million PCs sold. This is a rate of 0.2 billion PCs a year. 1% of them is 2 million units a year.

So in order to maintain their 2% share Apple have to sell 4 million Macs in 2005. To gain extra 1% they have to sell extra 2 million. To reach 10% share in new computers sold they have to sell 20 million Macs. They would have to increase their shipments five times!! However even this is not going to offset installed user base very much because this is what I think counts.

I would guess there are probably about 1 billion PCs on this planet and around 20 million Macs. Growth is a very slow process even if we all want it so much...

jaromski
Feb 12, 2005, 09:59 PM
I have 512 in it but may stick in 1 gig so it matches my quicksilver. My mini is a 1.42. I have never been impressed by the multitasking of my 3500+ but again it had to be running antivirus all the time.


Hmm...that's odd, I have an Athlon XP 3000+ system with 512meg and it runs faster than my G4 powerbook. I built the system in July/02 and it has a decent video card, but dated by today's standards. I think it is an Asus GeForce4 card. Anyway it is definately snappier than the powerbook. I just got the new 15" 1.67ghz G4 machine with 1GB ram. But I still prefer the Mac anyday to the other machine. Putting 1GB into this G4 machine was not a mistake. OS/X really starts to open up with more memory. I think that is the best upgrade you can make to your Mac. I think the next on my list would be a really fast hard drive. But as long as it wasn't too noisy.

Plus I was running antivirus and I keep about 10 programs running all the time. The new Athlon 64 chip is supposed to be even faster than the XP series but that machine is plenty fast enough for me. I would rather spend the money on mac hardware at this point anyway.

-jaromski

panphage
Feb 14, 2005, 02:18 AM
In Q4 2004 there were about 50 million PCs sold. This is a rate of 0.2 billion PCs a year. 1% of them is 2 million units a year.

So in order to maintain their 2% share Apple have to sell 4 million Macs in 2005. To gain extra 1% they have to sell extra 2 million. To reach 10% share in new computers sold they have to sell 20 million Macs. They would have to increase their shipments five times!! However even this is not going to offset installed user base very much because this is what I think counts.

I would guess there are probably about 1 billion PCs on this planet and around 20 million Macs. Growth is a very slow process even if we all want it so much...
I'd argue that the installed user base of Macs is far far higher than the units sold market share suggests. Macs last a LOT longer than a PC. I belong to a small cult of mac zealots who own and buff out a five year old Mac that was very unpopular when it was released. But Cubes sell every day on ebay, and dual 1.7 upgrades where just announced for it last month. I work with three people who still use their original bondi blue iMacs. Mac users just aren't consumed by the "upgrade or die" cycle Microsoft and crappy components have forced on the PC world (ok, ridiculously increasing game requirements has also been a major factor, I'll allow that as a respectable and legitimate reason for a shorter upgrade cycle--and wish we had that problem on the Mac side!) My guess is that there are a lot more macs out there being used than you think.

BornAgainMac
Feb 14, 2005, 05:18 AM
A earlier post suggested that web logs will show the most accurate method of marketshare. I consistently hear percentages of 10% or more.

Anyways, I hope Apple sells 4 million Minis this year. Probably will be closer to 2 million. Also I always see both the CompUSA Apple section and the Apple retail stores packed. They will need to have more stores or people will have to get use to online orders.

Bigheadache
Feb 14, 2005, 06:01 AM
I'd argue that the installed user base of Macs is far far higher than the units sold market share suggests. Macs last a LOT longer than a PC. I belong to a small cult of mac zealots who own and buff out a five year old Mac that was very unpopular when it was released. But Cubes sell every day on ebay, and dual 1.7 upgrades where just announced for it last month. I work with three people who still use their original bondi blue iMacs. Mac users just aren't consumed by the "upgrade or die" cycle Microsoft and crappy components have forced on the PC world (ok, ridiculously increasing game requirements has also been a major factor, I'll allow that as a respectable and legitimate reason for a shorter upgrade cycle--and wish we had that problem on the Mac side!) My guess is that there are a lot more macs out there being used than you think.

i'd argue thats its way smaller than you think on a global basis. Try finding a mac in china, india, or eastern europe. The only place where I have noticed a large number of Macs is in the US, which is hardly a growth market for computers in the first place. Theress a hell of a lot of cheapo pcs out there running pirated windows.

jaromski
Feb 14, 2005, 11:48 AM
i have a small website that right now has 20% mac and 80% windows users. i agree i think there is still a great deal of old macs out there chugging along just fine.

-jaromski

p.s. i think the pc upgrade cycle is changing, too. i agree that some pc components are inferior to mac, but anymore they all get their components from the same vendors. there are really good vendors in the PC world like asus that build high-quality components for a good price. but then there are really crappy vendors, too. i guess you don't get exposure to this as much in the mac scene because your hardware choices are so limited vs. a PC. but i don't think the argument that macs outlive PC's is really relevant anymore. they both should last the same assuming you buy your components from reputable vendors. i have PC's from 6-7 years ago that run just as well as they did the first day i bought them. macs too.

lbodnar
Feb 14, 2005, 02:28 PM
i have a small website that right now has 20% mac and 80% windows users.Websites are very bad way to poll installed user base. I have 43% Mac users but majority come either via Mac-realted sites or from Mac-related google searches.

Who would know best?"We have been able to complete transition to OS X with 14 million active users.
Steve Jobs, Macworld 2005
You can probably flex it both ways as some people own more than one Mac but also there are shared Macs with more than one active user so I stand behind 20mln active Macs, OK, make it 30mln if you wish. That's still only about 3%. I love Macs and have 4 of them but statistics is statistics...

jaromski
Feb 14, 2005, 06:16 PM
Websites are very bad way to poll installed user base. I have 43% Mac users but majority come either via Mac-realted sites or from Mac-related google searches.

Who would know best?
You can probably flex it both ways as some people own more than one Mac but also there are shared Macs with more than one active user so I stand behind 20mln active Macs, OK, make it 30mln if you wish. That's still only about 3%. I love Macs and have 4 of them but statistics is statistics...

yeah that's why i said my web site is small, small sample sizes can swing your results one way or the other. and it is a design sight and we all know how there is a disproportionate number of designers using mac. but my website isn't mac-based either.

but it does sound high. i would bet mac is anywhere from 3-10% it is just really hard to gauge.

-jaromski

Macmaniac
Feb 14, 2005, 06:50 PM
Before Apple can start making commercials they have to have some supply. At the moment its almost impossible to find a place that has them in stock. Time for Apple to make more!!!