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View Full Version : Why a Shuffle when you can get Sandisk?


davesipaq
Jan 22, 2005, 11:18 AM
I thought some of you would like to read this article. I think it brings up some good points.

http://davesipaq.com/articles/iPOD_Shuffle_Sandisk_MP3.html

BTW I ordered my Mini a week ago so please take that before you judge the review.

Bear
Jan 22, 2005, 11:26 AM
How well does the Sandisk work in conjunction with a Mac? A lot of the mp3 players don't have decent Mac interfaces if they bother with Mac software at all.

And the second question is which is more durable?

sjpetry
Jan 22, 2005, 11:35 AM
And the second question is which is more durable?

The Sandisk doesn't look like it will hold up to a lot of punishment.

davesipaq
Jan 22, 2005, 11:43 AM
Why not? The device is solid and lightweight. Also the unit does support Macs so I dont think you can go wrong. $131 bucks for a 1GB MP3, FM Player, Voice Recorder and Equalizer its killer..

Bear
Jan 22, 2005, 11:50 AM
Why not? The device is solid and lightweight. Also the unit does support Macs so I dont think you can go wrong. $131 bucks for a 1GB MP3, FM Player, Voice Recorder and Equalizer its killer..The question is, does the provided software with the Sandisk unit screw up using iTunes?

Sometimes two pieces of software that have overlapping functions don't get along very well.

telecomm
Jan 22, 2005, 11:56 AM
It does look like a nice player, but what about AAC and protected AAC support? All my music is in AAC, and I do have some purchased music as well. Even if it didn't play the protected AAC files, I wouldn't want to have to re-rip all my music to MP3. AAC compatiblity is a must for me.

Also, if used as a flash drive it requires that you carry around the USB cable as well, which might be an issue for some people.

That said, I'm sure there is a market for this sort of a player, but no AAC support would be the deal breaker for me.

abhishekit
Jan 22, 2005, 12:00 PM
It doesn't look that bad. But I think there are some issues which would prevent me from buying the sandisk.
1. The display is pretty much useless. It just says the name of the song. There is no navigation or list of songs. So what's the point of the display? The writer's complaint was that he could not get to his 'peaceful' song by pressing 'next'. So he has to do the same thing on sandisk, only difference being that he can 'see' what song is being played while pressing next. Still, 'next' or 'previous' is the only way of navigation.

2. He did not tell the weight, but since it has an AA battery, it must be significantly heavier.

One more point (which may not be applicable to everyone) is that I don't want the FM radio so that feature doesn't add any more value to me. If I want to listen to radio while working out, its already being played through the gym speakers.

cheers

davesipaq
Jan 22, 2005, 12:02 PM
Point taken but why should the end user be forced to AAC? I mean Itunes is nice but why cant the end user have the flexibility and use flat MP3? I think what you are saying is that you would like to be told what player you can only use itunes with. I like choice.

edesignuk
Jan 22, 2005, 12:03 PM
iPod is a brand now in its own right, people will buy Apple's USB stick player because it has the "iPod" brand. People love brands.

telecomm
Jan 22, 2005, 12:06 PM
Point taken but why should the end user be forced to AAC? I mean Itunes is nice but why cant the end user have the flexibility and use flat MP3? I think what you are saying is that you would like to be told what player you can only use itunes with. I like choice.

Umm... no, not quite. AAC is an open standard (MPEG 4). I have chosen to encode my music in AAC. Yes, my music store purchases are a limitation, but those purchased tracks make up only a small portion of my music library.

I could have chosen to encode my music in MP3, but AAC is a better codec. Sandisk also could have chosen to support AAC playback, but they chose not too.

Really, though, it looks like a fine player. Just not for me.

Logik
Jan 22, 2005, 12:08 PM
Point taken but why should the end user be forced to AAC? I mean Itunes is nice but why cant the end user have the flexibility and use flat MP3? I think what you are saying is that you would like to be told what player you can only use itunes with. I like choice.

old and busted: mp3... new hotness: aac

sorry mp3's sound washed out and echoy compared to aac ... hence i use aac at 160kbps and they sound just as good if not better than 192kbps mp3s.. also, i like having the ability to buy music in singles not full albums unless the full album is pretty good and worth the investment. iTunes does this for me. You have choices, i just made the choice to use apple's ipod line... my 512mb Shuffle is on the way and should be here monday. I have a 20gig ipod for when i need something bigger with all my music on it. iTunes also rocks for music organization, i have converted many people to using it because it just is that much better than using winamp or whatever else they're using. i chose to use the better product thank you very much. you are free to use the one that suits you best, just so happens that the ipod and itunes fit my needs best

slipper
Jan 22, 2005, 01:21 PM
Yes you have to add batteries to this unit, 1 AAA but remember what Apple says the rechargable batteries will eventually die.
ridiculous

davesipaq
Jan 22, 2005, 01:25 PM
I know what it is but whats your point?

dejo
Jan 22, 2005, 01:26 PM
im assuming he doesnt know what a lanyard is?

I think he had a problem with the name. Why not just call it a neck strap?

dejo
Jan 22, 2005, 01:27 PM
Point taken but why should the end user be forced to AAC? I mean Itunes is nice but why cant the end user have the flexibility and use flat MP3? I think what you are saying is that you would like to be told what player you can only use itunes with. I like choice.

Counter-point. Why should the end user be forced to MP3? With the iPod shuffle you can use both.

dejo
Jan 22, 2005, 01:30 PM
Plus, why is this the third thread I've seen this posting? Are you thinking if you say it enough times, people will start to agree with you?

dejo
Jan 22, 2005, 01:34 PM
A couple of things that the SanDisk player doesn't have:

- An easy way to switch between shuffle and non-shuffle mode. iPod shuffle actually has a slider for this.

- Easy syncing with your jukebox. The SanDisk requires you to drag-and-drop all your tunes and set up your playlists on the player by hand.

quagmire
Jan 22, 2005, 01:39 PM
There are many more features on the " iPod killers" then the iPod. That just makes the device more complex. Wow, just plug in the sandisk and use IE to put music on it. Wow, even better! Plug in shuffle, iTunes automaticly opens and download the music and it even charges the shuffle for you when plugged in. Do we see the supposed " iPod killers" gain ground with their more features on their player? Nope. Do we see them gaining ground because they are cheaper? Nope. That is why the iPod is dominating the market. It does what it is supposed to do. Play music! The iPod makes it easy and fun to play/listen to your music. This Sandisk is just another iPod shuffle wannabe! Please don't take this personally Dave. Just pointing out facts.

mrgreen4242
Jan 22, 2005, 01:41 PM
The iTunes syncing is the killer feature for all the iPods, imo. It's interface is awesome as well, so that helps of course, but unless an MP3 player is big enough to hold my entire music collection, I need an easy way to transfer music to and from it.

I'll admit that Sandisks player looks like a pretty tough competitor for the Shuffle (although not much competition for the Mini), but the iTunes integration is going to win a lot of people over!

Rob

snkTab
Jan 22, 2005, 01:45 PM
I'd like to see how his few dollars less adds up after 1 week of using batteries.

davesipaq
Jan 22, 2005, 02:08 PM
First point

Incorrect. You hold down the center dial for 3 seconds and she shuffles..

Nope it does not. If you want to sync you can use Musicmatch..

Hope that helps your confusion.

A couple of things that the SanDisk player doesn't have:

- An easy way to switch between shuffle and non-shuffle mode. iPod shuffle actually has a slider for this.

- Easy syncing with your jukebox. The SanDisk requires you to drag-and-drop all your tunes and set up your playlists on the player by hand.

davesipaq
Jan 22, 2005, 02:09 PM
Hmmm.. Point taken but the Shuffle came out a week ago and the sandisk came out 4 months ago...


There are many more features on the " iPod killers" then the iPod. That just makes the device more complex. Wow, just plug in the sandisk and use IE to put music on it. Wow, even better! Plug in shuffle, iTunes automaticly opens and download the music and it even charges the shuffle for you when plugged in. Do we see the supposed " iPod killers" gain ground with their more features on their player? Nope. Do we see them gaining ground because they are cheaper? Nope. That is why the iPod is dominating the market. It does what it is supposed to do. Play music! The iPod makes it easy and fun to play/listen to your music. This Sandisk is just another iPod shuffle wannabe! Please don't take this personally Dave. Just pointing out facts.

quagmire
Jan 22, 2005, 02:12 PM
Hmmm.. Point taken but the Shuffle came out a week ago and the sandisk came out 4 months ago...

Still a wannabe! :D You have to hold down the center button for it to pick one random song or shuffles all your music around? The shuffle just a flick of the switch and it shuffles all the songs or plays in order. As I said, the sandisk is a shuffle wannabe!

dejo
Jan 22, 2005, 02:15 PM
First point

Incorrect. You hold down the center dial for 3 seconds and she shuffles..

Nope it does not. If you want to sync you can use Musicmatch..

Hope that helps your confusion.

Well, then they need to update their online user's manual since it doesn't mention holding down the center dial to activate shuffle mode.

MacFan25863
Jan 22, 2005, 02:52 PM
MusicMatch is quite possible the most overbloated piece of spyware I have ever seen. It's only rivaled by Windows Media Player.


I would never want a device that has to run off it. Apple realized this with the iPod and MusicMatch pair they had, and made iTunes for Windows to fix it.

davesipaq
Jan 22, 2005, 02:59 PM
Maybe you should read this


Press the Record button to change the shuffle mode from on to off

http://www.sandisk.com/retail/dap-manual-pm.asp

Hope that helps


Well, then they need to update their online user's manual since it doesn't mention holding down the center dial to activate shuffle mode.

dejo
Jan 22, 2005, 03:09 PM
Maybe you should read this


Press the Record button to change the shuffle mode from on to off

http://www.sandisk.com/retail/dap-manual-pm.asp

Hope that helps

It does, but you left out all the steps to get to that point:

1. Put your player in Audio Play mode.

2. Hold down the A-B Change Mode button for two seconds until the Equalizer screen appears.

3. Press the A-B Change Mode button again to display the Repeat Setting screen.

And finally...

4. Press the Record button to change the shuffle mode from off to on.

Followed by

5. Press the Select button to save your repeat mode settings.

That seems a lot more complicated than 'move slider on back of iPod shuffle to suffle play mode'.

davesipaq
Jan 22, 2005, 03:15 PM
LOL You have to be kidding me. It takes me 4 seconds to do this. I think you are making excuses for little things.

takao
Jan 22, 2005, 03:31 PM
different question: "why a Sandisk when you can get Shuffle" ?

personally i'm not really interested in a flash player but for me the San disk wouldn't provide any additional features over the shuffle which i would like but rather lacks the seamless integration which is one of apples biggest selling points ...

SuperChuck
Jan 22, 2005, 03:43 PM
Dave, do you honestly believe that this device will outsell the Shuffle? Do you think it will come close?

You're trying to apply logic to what is essentially a market dictated by branding. People equate Apple and iPod with ease of use, reliability and style. Apple could have put in an fm tuner, display & gps tracking system if they wanted to, but this would have destroyed their brand and made the iPod shuffle no different from any other device in its class (with the exception of a pointless gps system).

You refer to the process of clicking through a maze of navigation as being "simple - it only takes four seconds." Yeah, but it also requires four seconds of concentration on something that the iPod Shuffle makes intuitively easy. You can do it with your eyes closed.

I remember buying my first Walkman with an AM/FM tuner in it. I don't think I ever used the tuner. It was just another switch on the interface.

But hey, if you love radio, this is the thing for you. If you're put off by the slavish reverence people seem to have to the iPod brand, then buy something else. The fact remains that Apple has created a device that stays true to the iPod brand with a significantly reduced pricetag. And if you think anything is going to stop it from decimating the competition (let alone a fugly device from a relative newcomer to the mp3 market), you probably shouldn't quit the day job.

SodaPopMonster
Jan 27, 2005, 05:28 PM
hmm....I'd rather spend more time actually LISTENING to my device than fiddling with the buttons.

Also, I think batteries have become more and more obsolete, due to the fact that people have realized that they don't want to pay $2+ just to power something, and they just add ALOT more weight.


monster

jackieonasses
Jan 27, 2005, 05:50 PM
I don't think people understand what he is trying to do.

Most of your guy's arguments are very shaky and weak. Who cares how long it takes to make it go into shuffle? With my reg. iPod i rarely (if ever) use the shuffle feature. Davesipaq is trying to give us another option. The only thing the Shuffle has over the other one - is simply design and its an iPod. I liked your review, and i appreciate your addition to these boards.

kyle


P.S Still with me thinking The other one is almost a greater deal- I have an order for the 1gb shuffle. Why? Apple somehow makes me buy everything they make....

jxyama
Jan 27, 2005, 06:12 PM
first, please show me a place where this sandisk 1 GB version sells for under $150. i froogled it, 1 GB is $189, 512 is $139 from reputable sites. even the places you link sell the 1 GB for $160+. shuffle is $99/149 everywhere. no mail-in rebates, no sales, nothing. msrp is $99/149 and those are the prices people will see at best buy, circuit city, etc. most of the time.

as mentioned before, battery system is different. personally, rather than worrying about the life of lithium ion battery being shortened (no, it will not just die in a year) down the line, i prefer the convenience of not having to buy any batteries now. but that's just me.

shuffle plugs directly into an usb port. another advantage (as far as i'm concerned) since that's one less thing i have worry.

radio is a compelling difference for me. voice recorder, i don't care because i don't recall the last time i wanted to record voice on the go.

if i buy a shuffle, i buy it knowing it has no display. i wouldn't buy it first then complain that it doesn't have a display. in the same vain, can i complain that san disk won't play iTMS - something it wasn't designed or claimed to be able to do?

edit: any reason you list shuffle's weight in grams at the end? you should note that the sandisk is almost twice the weight of the shuffle. (~0.8 vs. 1.4 oz.) the main problem with your article is that it's an article mainly about the san disk, with the shuffle used at the beginning as if to lure some mac fans in. most of the details are on the san disk and it's quite clear from the beginning that you have a slant against shuffle. instead of judging the shuffle for what it's advertised to do, you knock it off from the getgo. it's borderline flamebait to post something like this at a mac site and frankly, i'm not sure exactly what you are trying to accomplish. (it's quite obvious that you are expecting some macfan backlash because you apologetically and preemptively post how you like Macs and have bought a mini...) i read david pogue's reviews on NY Times once in a while and he's a lot more balanced. i trust a review he writes because he is at least very good at hiding his bias - at least, he doesn't apologetically write what he likes because he know what he likes has not much of a place in a "review."

G5orbust
Jan 28, 2005, 01:20 AM
That guy is missing a key piece of info in his review of this little machine. That little 4 letter word called "iPod". Say hello to instant best seller. Apple's iPod name has become synonymous with quality audio players. You could have all the best features in the world, but if it doesnt have the iPod name, it already has a strike agaisnt it in the greater market. Not everyone on the planet is spec driven, most will just see the name "iPod" and the price tag. Baddah bing, baddah boom, cash in Apple's pocket.

Oh, and its Mötley Crüe, not Motley Crew.

DrEasy
Jan 28, 2005, 02:20 AM
It's not a display that I'd miss on the Shuffle, but just the ability to skip an entire album or playlist. Add a "skip" button and I'll be a Shuffler (who probably won't use the Shuffle option).

I mean don't they teach hashtable theory in computer schools anymore? :rolleyes:

allisonv7
Jan 28, 2005, 11:40 AM
I'm not in the market for a flash based player so I don't know all the features, pricing, etc. that are out there, but the Sandisk looks like a nice player to me. The big selling point for me would be the FM tuner and the voice recorder. I like listening to my MP3's primarily but I would *love* it if my ipod had a tuner.

allison.

asif786
Jan 28, 2005, 11:51 AM
MusicMatch is quite possible the most overbloated piece of spyware I have ever seen. It's only rivaled by Windows Media Player.


I would never want a device that has to run off it. Apple realized this with the iPod and MusicMatch pair they had, and made iTunes for Windows to fix it.

I must agree - MusicMatch is the biggest piece of crap software ever. I remember having to sync an ipod with it once - it was hell! iTunes rocks compared to MM. (unless you like making your MP3 player look pretty using skins.. :rolleyes: )

/asif

bousozoku
Jan 28, 2005, 12:49 PM
That guy is missing a key piece of info in his review of this little machine. That little 4 letter word called "iPod". Say hello to instant best seller. Apple's iPod name has become synonymous with quality audio players. You could have all the best features in the world, but if it doesnt have the iPod name, it already has a strike agaisnt it in the greater market. Not everyone on the planet is spec driven, most will just see the name "iPod" and the price tag. Baddah bing, baddah boom, cash in Apple's pocket.

Oh, and its Mötley Crüe, not Motley Crew.

Well, he mentions iPod once and iPOD several times, too. So much for being an Apple supporter. ;)

I can see where some people would look for voice recorders and FM receivers in their music players but they just don't work well--even for the expensive models.

Having been on various short trips with a h.s. sports team and having them scavenge for batteries, there is nothing like having a lithium ion rechargeable battery that will last a year or more.

While SanDisk have come up with something good, for many people, the long term quality and the design will prove the smarter choice in the iPod shuffle.

davesipaq
Jan 28, 2005, 08:01 PM
Wow! You guys are really closed minded?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&kw=SASDMX11&is=REG&Q=&O=productlist&sku=357885

There is your $134.00 1GB Drive


http://www.pricegrabber.com/user_sales_getprod.php?masterid=5090336&lot_id=1334863

There is your $131.00 1GB Drive


jackieonasses you understood where I was going! If any of you dont believe me I am an apple supporter I can scan in my Apple Certification back in 1989 and my paystub working at MacWarehouse!

Be nice ;)

Solafaa
Jan 29, 2005, 12:57 AM
After reading it i am 100% this review is biased. Not because it says the iPod is not as good but rather not giving both products a fair view. Its like going and buying a racing car and complaing that it does not go off-road, its just silly. I mean iPod """""Shuffle""""" thats what its ment to do, it is supposed to shuffle your songs around (or you can play in order). Its not a fair argument to criticize something for doing what its supposed to do.

Bad review not fair imo.

Stampyhead
Jan 29, 2005, 02:51 AM
That SanDisk player is a cheap piece of garbage. My brother got one for Christmas and it broke within a month (he had the 512k model. $149 at BestBuy). Although it technically worked with his Mac, it has no real Mac interface. You plug it in to the computer and it mounts on the desktop like an external hard drive. Then you locate the songs you want to play on it and you drag them to it, like dragging files to a disk. Sure it has a display, but what good is the display when the player doesn't work? I am not biased. SanDisk makes good memory cards, I use one in my digital camera. I have never used an iPod Shuffle, I've never even seen one in person. All that I have to go on is the fact that Apple consistently makes quality products, and the fact that my brother's SanDisk mp3 player broke after less than a month of regular use. Now he has his BestBuy credit in hand and he is waiting for their next shipment of iPod Shuffles.

the future
Jan 29, 2005, 03:49 AM
Twice the weight. Twice the thickness. 1/10th the style. Yeah, I'm gonna buy that Sandisk and save those 15 bucks... :rolleyes:

bigandy
Jan 29, 2005, 04:34 AM
the worst thing about this little sandisk jobby is the use of MUSICMATCH, one of the worst programmes i have EVER used. the mention of that immediately makes me steer well clear of a product.

WELL clear.

jxyama
Jan 29, 2005, 04:05 PM
Wow! You guys are really closed minded?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&kw=SASDMX11&is=REG&Q=&O=productlist&sku=357885

There is your $134.00 1GB Drive


http://www.pricegrabber.com/user_sales_getprod.php?masterid=5090336&lot_id=1334863

There is your $131.00 1GB Drive


jackieonasses you understood where I was going! If any of you dont believe me I am an apple supporter I can scan in my Apple Certification back in 1989 and my paystub working at MacWarehouse!

Be nice ;)

thanks for the links, although i'm not sure if i'd want to buy from "panwebi electronics." ;)

in any case, the problem with your "review" is that it's quite obviously biased - basically, you introduce the shuffle at the beginning to give it a quick dismissal before touting the san disk. if you want to be more informative, why not review shuffle and sandisk separately, on their own merits, then make a table of comparisons for both, instead of using the shuffle as a "doormat"?

disagreeing with your biased review doesn't make us "not nice" or "close minded." and whether or not you are a mac supporter has nothing to do with how i'd perceive your review because truely informative and unbiased review wouldn't depend on your personal taste. (because your taste will not be the same as others.) i just think you are doing a bit of flamebaiting, posting at a mac fan site a biased review to stir up some reactions. that's one reason i'm giving you a negative reaction to your post.

if you think shuffle is not worth the money, then write that up on its own. i can easily see some people having problems with the shuffle. do those people a favor and list why it's not up to some standards. talking about it half-heartedly to stir up some reactions is very childish.

jxyama
Jan 29, 2005, 04:48 PM
specs

capacity: 1 GB for both (approx. 240 songs)

size: 3.3 x 0.98 x 0.33 = 1.07 cubic inches for shuffle, 2.96 x 1.28 x 0.82 = 3.11 cubic inches for sandisk

weight: 0.78 oz. for shuffle, 39.7g = 1.4 oz. for sandisk

battery system: built-in Li Ion for shuffle, 1 AAA battery for sandisk

battery life: 12 hours for shuffle, 15 hours for sandisk

supported format: aac, protected aac, mp3, mp3 vbr, audible, wav for shuffle, mp3, wma and wma drm for sandisk

data transfer: USB 2 for both

price: $149 retail for shuffle, $199 listed but as low as $135 online for sandisk

pros for shuffle:
-smaller and lighter
-plays iTMS songs
-does not require extra cable to connect to a computer
-built-in rechargeable battery
-plays audible
-includes lanyard

cons for shuffle:
-no display
-no armband
-no wma support
-no equalizer settings
-battery cannot be serviced by the user
-slightly shorter battery life


pros for sandisk:
-display
-standard battery
-built-in radio
-built-in voice recorder
-includes an arm band
-slightly longer battery life
-equalizer setting

cons for sandisk:
-larger and heavier
-no iTMS support
-no audible support
-needs batteries
-needs a cable to connect to a computer
-no lanyard

conclusion:
if you already have songs from iTMS, get the shuffle. similarly, if you have considerable WMA song collection, get the sandisk. otherwise, decide for yourself how important the display is. shuffle does not have a display - either you listen to songs in random order or in the order of a pre-loaded playlist which cannot be editted on the device. if this is going to be the only mp3 player you own, you will probably appreciate the display and easier navigation of the sandisk. if this is a supplementary mp3 player you will use for working out or commuting, shuffle is very competitive with the sandisk. differences in the music management software (iTunes vs. Music Match) and style/design of the device is up to the ind. users to decide their value.

AliensAreFuzzy
Jan 29, 2005, 04:48 PM
Probably the biggest thing that would make me buy the Shuffle over this is iTMS support. I have over 200 songs from there and a player that can play those, which are the ones I listen to most often, is worth WAY more than the $15 difference for it.

Counterfit
Jan 29, 2005, 06:00 PM
Quite honestly, that is the worst review of any two products I have ever seen. EVER! I want those 10 minutes back! :mad:

stoid
Jan 29, 2005, 06:27 PM
I think that the biggest selling point for the SanDisk player is it's attractive name!

SDMX1-1024-A18 just screams hip and sleek to me!!

Honestly though, why is it that Apple is nearly the only company capable of naming their products, whereas most other companies just assign uninformational product alphanumeric codes?

bousozoku
Jan 29, 2005, 09:55 PM
I think that the biggest selling point for the SanDisk player is it's attractive name!

SDMX1-1024-A18 just screams hip and sleek to me!!

Honestly though, why is it that Apple is nearly the only company capable of naming their products, whereas most other companies just assign uninformational product alphanumeric codes?

Hmmm...the back of my 40 GB HP iPod has this: Model: MP103 Product No. 436A, which sounds almost as appealing (or appalling, as the case may be.)