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View Full Version : Putting out the welcome mat


Blue Velvet
Jan 23, 2005, 08:25 AM
iPod, Shuffle, Mac Mini... these products and their take-up by switchers are going to bring a lot of new members to this forum over the next 12 months.

Some of them will be repetitive and annoying, but most of them will have genuine concerns or valid points to make.

Like everybody here, I also get annoyed with the umpteenth question about the release date of G5 powerbooks, Tiger, and over-inflated expectations of rumoured products. But you will never find me calling someone 'a dumb noob'...

Let's try and be a little more patient and less condescending it doesn't reflect well on this forum and the Mac community if people take a overly harsh and critical approach to their responses, particularly if they're bordering on the personal. My 2nd or 3rd post on this forum was met with the unnecessary response that I was 'stupid' for daring to ask a simple question. Incidentally, that question was never answered...

I was particularly struck by this (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1229580#post1229580) recent post and the ensuing dialogue about the attitude of some MR forum members.

So hey... let's go easy out there.

munkle
Jan 23, 2005, 10:05 AM
I'm with you on this one Blue. Last thing we want is for MR to turn into some smug battleground.

edesignuk
Jan 23, 2005, 10:38 AM
For what it's worth I agree...but, it's constantly a case of that you just can't win, or some will think you're an ass for making fun, while others couldn't agree more, "such is life".

We all have our opinions, and of course they aren't always the same.

I'm of the opinion that I am happy to help out anyone, new or old, if they have a sensible question and have at least bothered to do the obvious things first.

Take this for example (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=106424), how hard is it to Google? Really?
I'm sure some people look at my reply and think that I'm being an unhelpful jackass, but look at the results of that simple search. Bam, everything you ever wanted to know about the question.

So yeah, let's welcome people, but, let's not make things cosey for the morons of the world that are too lazy to do anything for themselves.

Blue Velvet
Jan 23, 2005, 10:44 AM
For what it's worth I agree...but, it's constantly a case of that you just can't win, or some will think you're an ass for making fun, while others couldn't agree more, "such is life".

We all have our opinions, and of course they aren't always the same.

I'm of the opinion that I am happy to help out anyone, new or old, if they have a sensible question and have at least bothered to do the obvious things first.

Take this for example (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=106424), how hard is it to Google? Really?
I'm sure some people look at my reply and think that I'm being an unhelpful jackass, but look at the results of that simple search. Bam, everything you ever wanted to know about the question.

So yeah, let's welcome people, but, let's not make things cosey for the morons of the world that are too lazy to do anything for themselves.

Know exactly what you mean about the Google thing... wonder sometimes about the web-skills of some people that come on here with the simplest of questions.

But that's not really what I'm getting at (and I certainly wasn't including you in the round-up of villains :) )

It's more a know-it-all, insulting and extremely corrosive way of dealing with people...

Koodauw
Jan 23, 2005, 10:53 AM
I wish King-Kobra was still around to welcome all the n00bs.

JDar
Jan 23, 2005, 11:09 AM
iPod, Shuffle, Mac Mini... these products and their take-up by switchers are going to bring a lot of new members to this forum over the next 12 months.


Let's try and be a little more patient and less condescending it doesn't reflect well on this forum and the Mac community if people take a overly harsh and critical approach to their responses, particularly if they're bordering on the personal. My 2nd or 3rd post on this forum was met with the unnecessary response that I was 'stupid' for daring to ask a simple question. Incidentally, that question was never answered...


So hey... let's go easy out there.

That is a beautiful approach to take on this forum, Blue Velvet. New users don't volunteer to have problems and questions, but with our presence here we should volunteer to be helpful, including pointing to other sources for their answers in constructive ways.

Applespider
Jan 23, 2005, 11:20 AM
The lack of common sense in googling for an answer can be frustrating. Sometimes I guess if you're not good at Boolean terms or multiple keywords in Google, the results may be daunting and it's easier to ask somewhere that is mostly friendly and helpful.

As a regular, I laugh at edesignuk's comments. But I think if I'd been a newbie and got the extra large font response from edesign, I'd never dare ask another question. And I ay not have realised that you'd googled it for me and linked to the results like the helpful guy you are!

virividox
Jan 23, 2005, 12:53 PM
hopefully we can all keep patient

PickledSquirrel
Jan 23, 2005, 02:30 PM
Looking on the bright side, there'll probably be people around soon with questions I can actually answer :o And non-proff geek-wannabees like myself can suddenly be of help... :eek:

-Squirrel

AnewMac
Jan 23, 2005, 04:25 PM
I want to say thanks for the patience and help many of you extended to a recent mac newbie. This place is great! My only hope now is I might be able to contribute one day. Take care.

solvs
Jan 24, 2005, 02:19 PM
Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime.

That, and now that Don'tHurtMe is trading in his AlienWare and getting a Mini (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=106788), we know that this thing must be good. Still doesn't mean we can't slap some sense into someone for an obvious question. I mean, we were all noobs once, and we wouldn't want to scare them off. But some questions are better left unanswered (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=106614).

edesignuk
Jan 24, 2005, 02:21 PM
unanswered (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=106614).
:D Me, harsh? Naaaa....:p

deryk
Jan 24, 2005, 02:46 PM
Know exactly what you mean about the Google thing... wonder sometimes about the web-skills of some people that come on here with the simplest of questions.

But that's not really what I'm getting at (and I certainly wasn't including you in the round-up of villains :) )

It's more a know-it-all, insulting and extremely corrosive way of dealing with people...

While I think searching is not difficult, according to this article, most people don't konw how to do it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6861158/

Deryk

solvs
Jan 24, 2005, 02:47 PM
:D Me, harsh? Naaaa....:p
Never said I didn't think it was funny. ;)

zelmo
Jan 24, 2005, 02:52 PM
Once you get a PC user past all the misconceptions they have acquired about a Mac (incompatibility with Windows, ridiculously high prices, dearth of software, etc, etc, etc...), you are still left to deal with the "cult of Mac" phenomenon. I have a few relatives and friends who aren't interested in the Mac primarily because they are put off by the elitist attitudes of Mac users, as much as anything else.
Let's face it, we use Macs because we know they are better. We've known it for years, and we've been treated roughly by the PC crowd on occasion because of it. Scoffed. Laughed at. Picked on.
**lifts a trembling hand and bravely wipes a single tear from cheek**
We enjoy giving back what we've been receiving for years, and it's fun and easy to buy into that mentaility. However, indulging in such behavior won't endear us to new users coming here for help learning about the Mac platform. And that won't help Apple in the long run. From a purely selfish perspective, it is in our best interests to be helpful to the n00bs. They will help grow market share, which will encourage Apple and 3rd party s/w vendors to keep bringing cool new toys, er, I mean, "useful products", to market to make our computing lives richer.

As wdlove would no doubt say, we need to turn the other cheek and embrace these folks. Help them with their questions. Teach them how to get the most out of their Mac.

Of course, if they ask really st000pid questions..... :rolleyes:

edesignuk, keep those macros at the ready. :p

Blue Velvet
Jan 24, 2005, 02:52 PM
Never said I didn't think it was funny. ;)

Me neither... :D

Blue Velvet
Jan 24, 2005, 02:57 PM
While I think searching is not difficult, according to this article, most people don't konw how to do it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6861158/

Deryk

That may be true. I don't know...

Search is something I enjoy doing and would love to know more about. I've forgotten most of the operators for Google and have come to rely too heavily on this. (http://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en) But that's powerful enough for most people if used correctly...

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 24, 2005, 02:57 PM
Lets face it, some would rather be negative (or perhaps in their mind, funny) than helpful. And in the end that is not very welcoming.

munkle
Jan 24, 2005, 03:15 PM
Maybe all newbs should be made to watch this video (http://www.trials-shack.co.uk/posting.html) before being allowed to post ;) :p

Lord Blackadder
Jan 24, 2005, 03:43 PM
I remember being given a hard time after asking a question once soon after joining, and even though it didn't rankle with me I would hardly want to remain a member if such behavior were the norm. A lot of n00b questions show laziness on the part of the author, but simple questions are usually the easiest to answer - it takes more effort to be sarcastic and arrogant.

On the whole people are civil here and know when to turn on the sarcasm (edesign's macros) and when to behave. Still, I cringe for the person who just joined MR with the intention of asking about using their <brand> LCD display with a Mac Mini. Yes, it's a bit annoying, but the question is easily answered with a "There's a thread about that here <link> and yes it will work." So far most people are doing that, which is good.

It would be cool to see Apple grow significantly as a result of the new "cheap" hardware, and if so MR will probably grow too - especially if we do put out the welcome mat.

Congrats to most of the people here on MR for keeping things decent.

wordmunger
Jan 24, 2005, 03:46 PM
I wrote a book (Researching Online) about online searching and also taught Freshman composition. It's amazing what people don't know about searching and how to determine what is and is not a credible source. People don't have the first clue. If they see something that's close to what they want, it's good enough.

Knowing all that, I shouldn't be surprised how often someone will accept a single MR post as the gospel truth. I like to come to MR to get ideas and help on where to *start* looking for something, but it's incredible how many times people will ask questions like "should I sell my 2,000 AAPL shares" and then take the first answer they get.

PickledSquirrel
Jan 24, 2005, 04:08 PM
Maybe all newbs should be made to watch this video (http://www.trials-shack.co.uk/posting.html) before being allowed to post ;) :p
bwahahahahahah :D YES, make it compulsory when signing in for the first time!!!! (actually I'm dead serious here, it's brilliant)

-Squirrel

Blue Velvet
Jan 24, 2005, 04:20 PM
Maybe all newbs should be made to watch this video (http://www.trials-shack.co.uk/posting.html) before being allowed to post ;) :p

I like it.

Have forwarded that link to some collegues who are currently setting up a work-related forum...

Thanks for a laugh!

MacRy
Jan 25, 2005, 12:52 PM
I wish King-Kobra was still around to welcome all the n00bs.

Personally i'm glad he isn't as he was the only negative experience i've had on this site.

But on-topic - I think that's a lovely sentiment Blue Velvet and I know that I appreciated the help that I received from members when I first switched. If I can impart some of my limited knowledge to Newbies then i'll feel even more of a member of this community.

Come on......group hug everyone

zelmo
Jan 25, 2005, 02:03 PM
editCome on......group hug everyone

Gosh, I'm feeling a little verklempt (sp?) I just need a moment... :)

MacRy
Jan 26, 2005, 10:48 AM
Gosh, I'm feeling a little verklempt (sp?) I just need a moment... :)

Had to look that up. Funny though :D

Oy Vey! as someone I used to work with used to say....