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markjones05
Jan 23, 2005, 09:01 PM
I hear alot of different things about this rumord soon to be released system. Does anyone have any real information? If it's going to be released this year why havn't we heard anything for certain? This is no way to promote a next generation system.

Phat_Pat
Jan 23, 2005, 09:02 PM
I think Microsoft has stated that it is indeed making Xbox 2 although they said they probably wouldnt show it off until next year... unlike Sony/Nintendo

JzzTrump22
Jan 23, 2005, 09:14 PM
Microsoft is going for an earlier launch then PS3. I heard many rumors and read many threads on the Xbox forums about xbox 2 being realease either the end of this year (highly doubtfull) or beginning -middle 06. Basically within the next year and a half.

mrgreen4242
Jan 23, 2005, 10:29 PM
The release time frames above sound inline with what I have heard as well. Expect some early demos at this summers E3, and an announcement of when they will launch sometime after that. If Sony announces a holiday season '05 launch, I expect MS to follow suit, otherwise, 2006 is more likely.

As far as non-release news, I saw some screen captures of a couple tech demo's awhile back (linked via slashdot, pretty reliable source) that were highly impressive. Think HDTV resolution and graphics that are comparible to what todays best PC gaming systems and you'll be pretty close.

I'm most interested in the rumors that MS will be releasing several models of the Xbox Next... a 'basic' model that has no HD and uses flash memory cards for save games, and potentially online updates; a home media model that includes a HD and a tv tuner for TiVo like functions; lastly a 'WebTV/personal computer' model that has the same features as the home media model, but also comes with a jeyb/mouse, and a windowing enivroment with some basic apps, like a web browser, email client, chat program, and some office-like package. Prices are (wildly) speculated to be around $300, $500, and $600, respectively.

I'm mostly interested in the fact that there may be an optional keyboard/mouse available as an official accessory, so maybe we will see games that utilize that as a control scheme. FPS and MMORPGs (and 'regualr' RPGs, I guess) would be the obvious applications, but there is also the RTS genre and maybe a resurgence of Adventure games that could use a mouse. That, combined with a good Live! type service being offered at launch could change my mind about getting one of these.

Rob

markjones05
Jan 27, 2005, 01:44 PM
I'm mostly interested in the fact that there may be an optional keyboard/mouse available as an official accessory, so maybe we will see games that utilize that as a control scheme. FPS and MMORPGs (and 'regualr' RPGs, I guess) would be the obvious applications, but there is also the RTS genre and maybe a resurgence of Adventure games that could use a mouse. That, combined with a good Live! type service being offered at launch could change my mind about getting one of these.

Rob

That would be rather cool, but extremely unfair for online purposes. Playing someone in a first person shooter like Halo3 would be like cheating if someone had the advantage of using a mouse while others fumbled around with a 2 joystick controller.

clayj
Jan 27, 2005, 01:55 PM
That would be rather cool, but extremely unfair for online purposes. Playing someone in a first person shooter like Halo3 would be like cheating if someone had the advantage of using a mouse while others fumbled around with a 2 joystick controller.Well, that's easy enough to handle... I believe that Halo 2 already prevents you from using a keyboard or mouse to play the game. You HAVE to use the standard controller, or some variation thereof.

pigbat
Jan 27, 2005, 02:26 PM
I hear alot of different things about this rumord soon to be released system. Does anyone have any real information? If it's going to be released this year why havn't we heard anything for certain? This is no way to promote a next generation system.

You won't find any hard dates but EA released it's 2005 lineup which contained a few Next Gen Xbox titles listed as 4Q 2005.



January 21, 2005 - Netherlands-based fan site Xboxworld reports on an Electronic Arts press event held in Zoetermeer, the Netherlands recently, in which the publishing giant revealed tantalizing next-generation console plans.


While EA confirmed Batman Begins and Medal of Honor: Dogs of War for fiscal 2005, the bigger news is a line-up of titles reportedly scheduled for Xbox and Xbox Next:
Battlefield: Modern Combat
The Godfather
"Secret Marvel Project"
Black
FIFA Soccer 2006
Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 2006
Need for Speed: Most Wanted
SSX 4
Urbz 2
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
Burnout 4
James Bond: From Russia with Love
FIFA Street 2
While we cannot consider this an official announcement from EA, given that it comes to us from secondary sources, we can say that the list above is in line with our own understanding of EAs next-generation plans. In fact, were even willing to predict that the "Secret Marvel project" is in fact the long-anticipated Marvel vs. EA fighter. As for another SSX or Need for Speed, well, were not quite spasming with surprise.

Still, any next-gen tidbits are tasty to our palates. Well be back with even more as soon as we can get new info for you. Watch this space

Drgnhntr
Jan 27, 2005, 03:16 PM
This is a little old, but points to a 2006 release in Japan and that the xbox next will be smaller. Couldn't find the original comments by Steve Ballmer about this though.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/rpg/truefantasyliveonline/news_6086279.html

I think that some of the rumors are a little exaggerated. Microsoft lost money on each xbox sold. I don't think they will be willing to do that with xbox next. Just not good business sense, especially now that they have an installed user base.

E3 will be really interesting as I believe all three next gen consoles will be shown in some way or another.

jtgotsjets
Jan 27, 2005, 04:08 PM
This is a little old, but points to a 2006 release in Japan and that the xbox next will be smaller. Couldn't find the original comments by Steve Ballmer about this though.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/rpg/truefantasyliveonline/news_6086279.html

I think that some of the rumors are a little exaggerated. Microsoft lost money on each xbox sold. I don't think they will be willing to do that with xbox next. Just not good business sense, especially now that they have an installed user base.

E3 will be really interesting as I believe all three next gen consoles will be shown in some way or another.

It's not really bad business sense to take a loss on the consoles themselves.
It's not as though Microsoft ended up taking a loss on their entire xbox endeavor, just on each system sold. Hell, the profits from Halo alone probably made up what they lost on the console.
What taking a loss on each console let them do was use better technology in their system than any of the competition. (Gamecube might be my favorite current system, but I have to admit, XBox has is beat in the graphics department.) Since Microsoft doesn't have any old catalog to entice users (like PS2 did with PSX and GC with everyone other nintendo system), they had to lure users with something else, and spending extra money on system itself was the best way to do it (along with Halo, heh). Game manufacturers have never made a huge amount of money from the consoles, they just rely on people to buy at least 5 or 6 games eventually, and rake in the profits from that.

ZildjianKX
Jan 27, 2005, 06:26 PM
You'll definately see it launch Xbox 2005 in US, and probably later around the world. MS wants to be the first ones out of the gate this time around, with the PS2 hitting X-mas 2006 (and probably the same for Nintendo).

Drgnhntr
Jan 27, 2005, 07:46 PM
It's not really bad business sense to take a loss on the consoles themselves.
It's not as though Microsoft ended up taking a loss on their entire xbox endeavor, just on each system sold. Hell, the profits from Halo alone probably made up what they lost on the console.
What taking a loss on each console let them do was use better technology in their system than any of the competition. (Gamecube might be my favorite current system, but I have to admit, XBox has is beat in the graphics department.) Since Microsoft doesn't have any old catalog to entice users (like PS2 did with PSX and GC with everyone other nintendo system), they had to lure users with something else, and spending extra money on system itself was the best way to do it (along with Halo, heh). Game manufacturers have never made a huge amount of money from the consoles, they just rely on people to buy at least 5 or 6 games eventually, and rake in the profits from that.

I totally agree with you that it made sense for Microsoft to take a loss on the xbox. They were the newcomer and had to offer something more for the same price. I just don't see a benefit for them to take a loss, or as much of a loss per unit on xbox next as they did with the xbox. They have an old catalog now, so I think they will play on that more. If Halo 3 is ready in time for launch, I don't think they will have a problem selling xbox next.

combatcolin
Jan 28, 2005, 05:30 AM
The xBox will only have 1 version for consumers.

Muliple version of the same machine confuse andharm the product.

markjones05
Jan 28, 2005, 08:04 AM
The xBox will only have 1 version for consumers.

Muliple version of the same machine confuse andharm the product.


I disagree. Why pay 500 for a hard drive and backwards compatability and possibly windows, when u simply want the stripped down version because you have a computer and are keeping your original xbox for only 300? Thats like saying multiple versions of the iPod harm its sales... totally rediculous.

combatcolin
Jan 29, 2005, 09:25 AM
Apple make money on each iPod sold.

Microsoft lose (A LOT OF) money on each xBox sold.

Microsoft may be loaded, but there not going to want to lose any more money on the mulit-billion $$$ losing xBox project.

xBox 2 is where Microsoft are planning to make money back, and they will not be aiming to waste money on building machines that will fragment and confuse the user base.

combatcolin
Jan 29, 2005, 09:55 AM
Mega CD anyone?

Sorry, it the Geneisis CD over the pond wasn't it?

mrgreen4242
Jan 29, 2005, 10:25 AM
I'm pretty sure that all consoles (at least the more recent ones) are sold at a loss, at first anyways. As the console ages it becomes cheaper to make (2 or 3 year old GPUs, for example, cost a fraction of what they did new, and 128mb RAM DIMMs are the same). The new PS2 is a good example of this. The cost of making the new, smaller system board, with the samller case, is probably considerably less than the original was to make, and they sell if for the same price. Sony is starting to make money, or at least not lose any, on the PS2.

Also, as the console maker, they get a cut of each game sold, in way of licensing fees. I've read that MS would break even on the sale of an XBox as long as the user also bought 5 games at some point, which is pretty reasonable. After that is profit. Tack onto that XBox Live! subscriptions, controllers, memory cards, and first party games profit, and it's safe to say that they made plenty of cash on the XBox.

Also, the idea that 'several versions of the XBox will confuse consumers' complete bunk. Are people confused becasue there are no less than 4 versions of the iPod (Shuffle, Mini, iPod, and Photo)? 7 if you count the varying HD sizes... People will understand that there are 3 versions of the XBox, and they all do 1 basic thing, play games, and for some extra $$$ you can get a model that does some extra things (record TV, browse the Web, etc).

MS has all the technology they need to release a PVR Xbox... with experience from Ultimate TV and the Windows Media Center they are ready to challenge the other PVR brands for a home theatre system. Plus, with the success of Live! they have a good chance at sellign tiered service plans... $50/year for gaming only Live! and $100 for gaming and PVR subscription. It's a potential cash cow.

Anyways, this is too long as it is. I'm hoping for a 2005 release as well, just to put pressure on Nintendo to release something STELLAR this time around. Don't get me wrong, I have and love my GC, but as they are in a pretty close race for SECOND place with MS, they need to do something brilliant with the next generation system to stay viable.

Rob

ZildjianKX
Jan 29, 2005, 12:51 PM
Mega CD anyone?

Sorry, it the Geneisis CD over the pond wasn't it?

Actually SEGA CD.

jadam
Jan 29, 2005, 01:12 PM
I personally can't wait until Nintendo Revolution, that will be something! Supposed to come out christmas time 05.

MIADolFan
Jan 29, 2005, 02:48 PM
I poked around and found this. I find it interesting that early XBox 2 dev kits rely on Mac G5's. I just pasted the "factual" portion but there is more listed as rumors and things they have heard.


http://stuffo.howstuffworks.com/nextbox1.htm

What we know:

IBM has signed on to replace Intel as the provider of processor technology in new Xbox products and services.

ATI Technologies has signed a contract with Microsoft to produce the graphics chip for the next Xbox. This is a switch from the hardware giant Nvidia who produced chips for the first Xbox. Here's what Robbie Bach, the vice president of the Microsoft Home and Entertainment Division had to say about the partnership with ATI in August 2003:

"We're combining Microsoft's vision, software experience and R&D resources with ATI's pioneering leadership in graphics technologies to create innovative future Xbox products and services that meet the lifestyle needs of consumers in the Digital Decade ... We selected ATI after reviewing the top graphics technologies in development and determining that ATI's technical vision fits perfectly with the future direction of Xbox."

Taiwanese chip maker Silicon Integrated Systems will help create the input/output chips for the Xbox 2.

The B/R/S Group, a California-based market research company that has the Xbox division of Microsoft on its client-list has been holding focus groups to study a device it refers to as Xbox Next PC.

Company representatives have acknowledged that "Xenon" is the code name for the Xbox 2 project.

Microsoft is set to send out the Xbox 2 developer's kit in the first quarter of 2005. This kit will include an R500 card. Microsoft's current kit is powered with older Radeon 9800 cards. The first round of Dev kits are meant to run on Mac G5s. The Xbox 2 uses a RISC CPU and not the Intel X64 compliant CPU that was used for Xbox 1. If you know what all of that means, good for you.

markjones05
Jan 29, 2005, 05:50 PM
xBox 2 is where Microsoft are planning to make money back, and they will not be aiming to waste money on building machines that will fragment and confuse the user base.

Yea and I bet you are one of those people who thinks a two button mouse is too confusing for the low end mac user base.

kuyu
Jan 29, 2005, 06:34 PM
here are some screens from the upcoming xbox2 game "oblivion."

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200410/N04.1022.1624.10079.htm

click on screenshots.

bigandy
Jan 29, 2005, 06:37 PM
90% of all consoles sold make a loss, specifically because they make the huge profits on the games. they sell the console at a loss to entice customers to the platform.

the Xbox2 will lose money on each console too. that's the way the market works. it's unlike any other.

savar
Jan 29, 2005, 06:43 PM
Microsoft lost money on each xbox sold. I don't think they will be willing to do that with xbox next. Just not good business sense, especially now that they have an installed user base.

Every video game system ever has been a loss leader!! I defy you to name one that wasn't. They all take several years to reach a point where marginal cost drops below price.

XBox is, however, apparently profitable now.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20987

This is a surprisingly short amount of time, IMO, because the XBox is undoubtedly the greatest leap forward ever in video game technology. (Built-in ethernet, HD, 4 controller ports, far better graphics, etc.)

The whole idea of an XBox/Media PC is totally stupid. Here's what MS ought to do: Offer the same XBox with the same RAM and Processor configuration, and offer two or three different sizes of HD. 10GB for low end users who just need to save games and use the scratch space for loading stuff quickly. Then a 500GB model with a TV-tuner and Tivo-like software. (Price point: $500.) Furthermore, the high-end model needs to allow games to be installed to HD, and games need to have DRM built-in to make this acceptible to game developers. I've seen XBoxes that are hacked to allow these two features (TV and copying games to HD) and its so much more convenient than fumbling with different game disks, especially when you are only rotating between, say, three or four different games for a few months at a time. The remote needs to be included in the box this time, and not use up a controller port.

The XBox2 also better have coaxial digital output built-in, and HD resolution should be the standard. And a less ugly box would be a perk...like say a Mac mini box.

Edit: I realize that the fifth paragraph sounds self-contradicting, perhaps. All I meant is that the media functions should look like Tivo, basically, not a windows desktop (which would be a funny thing running on a PPC chip), and there should not be a mouse or keyboard (even as an option) nor should there be a web browser built-in, etc.

Powerbook G5
Jan 29, 2005, 07:45 PM
I've heard the Xbox Next is coming out later this year, too. I agree with the previous post that it needs to include a remote and not have you spent extra for DVD and take up a port. Also, it is annoying that the current Xbox only supports HDTV on certain games and when it does, it is only 480p 9 out of 10 times. I want to see some 720p and 1080i in games like Halo 3. My TV has DVI and 4 sets of high speed component inputs, it'd be nice if I could use them for more than a low res version of their "HDTV" promise. Also, use higher quality parts. I've gone through 3 Xbox systems because the cheap DVD drive crapped out on the others and my games would freeze whenever the disc would spin down for more than a few minutes after rendering a scene. Coax digital as an option would be awesome, too. Optical is great, but when you have your system fully loaded and the wires are kind of tightly packed back in your home theater system, it gets to be a pain to try to make sure your $100 optical cable isn't being bent more than x amount of degrees in any one direction. Also, if the next Xbox doesn't weigh 11 lbs, put out an enormous amount of heat and noise, and didn't tower over everything else in your living room, it would be a nice plus. Here's hoping that Microsoft doesn't half ass this system, because the PS3 looks to be one massive beast of a machine and Nintendo promises some incredibly revolutionary ideas out of the next generation platform.

applekid
Jan 29, 2005, 08:52 PM
Every video game system ever has been a loss leader!! I defy you to name one that wasn't. They all take several years to reach a point where marginal cost drops below price.

XBox is, however, apparently profitable now.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20987

This is a surprisingly short amount of time, IMO, because the XBox is undoubtedly the greatest leap forward ever in video game technology. (Built-in ethernet, HD, 4 controller ports, far better graphics, etc.)

I don't know about that... I think Nintendo and Sony had no trouble posting profits for their individual consoles earlier. Nintendo is able to offer the GameCube at under $100 because there's no extra, non-game-related hardware (such as the ability to play DVDs) and ATI was able to make significantly cheaper GPUs very early (I remember reading that at IGN when the GameCube was still $199), so it's no trouble. Sony probably was able to lower price because it's a slightly older console and costs dropped off. And the X-Box probably finally found its equilibrium after all these years. It's definitely pretty late considering they're ready to move to the next generation of consoles in less than a year.

If Microsoft is going to offer multiple versions of its X-Box successor, it really needs to make it simple for the user to figure out. It needs to keep the CPU, GPU, and maybe RAM the same. Let them add more HD capacity, PVR capabilities, internet access, etc. But make the differences clear and not mess around with the basic gaming hardware. I don't want to be told the low-end X-Box can't play certain games as well as the high-end X-Box because they changed the core hardware.

Anyways, those tech support stories about two-button mice not being easy for the first-time user is no joke. Ask some real tech support people. I've read and heard many different stories from many tech support people about how they do get a two-button mouse problem fairly often.

LethalWolfe
Jan 29, 2005, 08:57 PM
Apple make money on each iPod sold.


And they make little/nothing from iTMS. iTMS is a loss leader to sell iPods. Consoles are loss leaders to sell games.


Lethal

combatcolin
Jan 30, 2005, 05:15 AM
I've heard the Xbox Next is coming out later this year, too. I agree with the previous post that it needs to include a remote and not have you spent extra for DVD and take up a port. Also, it is annoying that the current Xbox only supports HDTV on certain games and when it does, it is only 480p 9 out of 10 times. I want to see some 720p and 1080i in games like Halo 3. My TV has DVI and 4 sets of high speed component inputs, it'd be nice if I could use them for more than a low res version of their "HDTV" promise. Also, use higher quality parts. I've gone through 3 Xbox systems because the cheap DVD drive crapped out on the others and my games would freeze whenever the disc would spin down for more than a few minutes after rendering a scene. Coax digital as an option would be awesome, too. Optical is great, but when you have your system fully loaded and the wires are kind of tightly packed back in your home theater system, it gets to be a pain to try to make sure your $100 optical cable isn't being bent more than x amount of degrees in any one direction. Also, if the next Xbox doesn't weigh 11 lbs, put out an enormous amount of heat and noise, and didn't tower over everything else in your living room, it would be a nice plus. Here's hoping that Microsoft doesn't half ass this system, because the PS3 looks to be one massive beast of a machine and Nintendo promises some incredibly revolutionary ideas out of the next generation platform.



Nintendo don't lose money on their machines, the Nes hardware made little money but the profit margins on the Snes, N64 and Gamescube have all been reapectable in finacial terms.

And then theirs the Gameboy - always a money spinner.

Yes the PS2 has become cheaper to make but then its become cheraper so Sony get even less for each machine sold.

And regarding the posting about the 2 button mouse, if it was such a good idea then Steve Jobs would have moved to them years ago.

1 button

1 function at a time

1 brain cell to use it.

Dead simple.

But yes, i do perfer a multi buton mouse - but the logic behind Steve's decision is sound and unbroken now as it was in 1984.

Yvan256
Jan 30, 2005, 08:40 AM
You'll definately see it launch Xbox 2005 in US, and probably later around the world. MS wants to be the first ones out of the gate this time around, with the PS2 hitting X-mas 2006 (and probably the same for Nintendo).

Uh-Oh, Microsoft wants to repeat Sega's mistakes?! :eek:

Remember, Sega became out-of-sync with the others, and their consoles was ahead of the current generation but behind in the next one.

Granted, Microsoft would't be years out-of-sync, but that's a dangerous path to go... (it could even allow the competition to increase the specs without really changing anything else, i.e. better GPU, internal RAM, CPU speed, etc). As long as no production has begun, it's a possibility and a real danger to anyone coming out before the others.

As for Nintendo, I haven't heard anything (not even a codename) for their next console... Did they take a tip from Apple about unreleased products?
;)

Yvan256
Jan 30, 2005, 08:43 AM
Mega CD anyone?

Sorry, it the Geneisis CD over the pond wasn't it?

SEGA MegaDrive -> MegaCD
SEGA Genesis -> SegaCD

(I guess "GeneCD" doesn't sound as cool as SegaCD). :D

Yvan256
Jan 30, 2005, 09:03 AM
[...]

And regarding the posting about the 2 button mouse, if it was such a good idea then Steve Jobs would have moved to them years ago.

1 button

1 function at a time

1 brain cell to use it.

Dead simple.

Which gives proof to:
- undead has 1 brain cell
- undead can only do one thing
- undead just wants to "eat brain"

Hum, off-topic I guess...

Well, how about a Zombie FPS for Xbox Next? :D

applekid
Jan 30, 2005, 12:43 PM
As for Nintendo, I haven't heard anything (not even a codename) for their next console... Did they take a tip from Apple about unreleased products?
;)

Cube.IGN.com has a nice "Revolution" (the codename) FAQ. And just this week, GameSpot and Cube.IGN.com have posted information on something called the "Nintendo 21" (allegedly a name change of "Revolution"). There's also a rumor roundup of four recent rumors also on Cube.IGN.com's site. All worth reading, but still gives you little information about what the GameCube successor is or will be like.

combatcolin
Jan 31, 2005, 07:30 AM
Which gives proof to:
- undead has 1 brain cell
- undead can only do one thing
- undead just wants to "eat brain"

Hum, off-topic I guess...

Well, how about a Zombie FPS for Xbox Next? :D

Mac OS

9 out of 10 Zombies prefer it!!

hvfsl
Jan 31, 2005, 08:00 AM
Well The Xenon (Xbox2) is meant to have:

- 3x 3.5Ghz dual core G5 chips (or whatever they decide to call them)
- removable Hard disk that doubles up as a iPod type device
- ATI R500 graphics card with SM4.0
- 256MB RAM
- HD-DVD drive

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/5388/Xbox-2-Specs-Leaked-Update-


Revolution

- 2x G5 (possibly dual core, at least 2Ghz)
- Unknown ATI graphics card (sharing some of the features of the R500 though)
- hard disk
- HD-DVD drive
- New controller design with gyrscopes

I am hoping some will be able to install Linux on one of those things, then you can install Mac OS X. :D
http://www.maconlinux.org/

jadam
Jan 31, 2005, 08:09 AM
Well The Xenon (Xbox2) is meant to have:

- 3x 3.5Ghz dual core G5 chips (or whatever they decide to call them)
- removable Hard disk that doubles up as a iPod type device
- ATI R500 graphics card with SM4.0
- 256MB RAM
- HD-DVD drive



:eek:

I honestly don't believe it...

If they do manage to pull this off though in a console that costs $299... then Apple better get their mini up to speed with dual core G5s!! And where are my quad powermacs!

hvfsl
Jan 31, 2005, 08:34 AM
:eek:

I honestly don't believe it...

If they do manage to pull this off though in a console that costs $299... then Apple better get their mini up to speed with dual core G5s!! And where are my quad powermacs!

Well consoles are generally sold at a loss and M$ can sell their consoles for a bigger loss than Nintendo or Sony (because of all the extra cash they have). Companies then try and make their money on the software sales, since Apple can't do this, I doubt we will ever see Macs that cheap. :(

jadam
Jan 31, 2005, 09:29 AM
Well consoles are generally sold at a loss and M$ can sell their consoles for a bigger loss than Nintendo or Sony (because of all the extra cash they have). Companies then try and make their money on the software sales, since Apple can't do this, I doubt we will ever see Macs that cheap. :(


Come on, if they can sell an xbox for $299 with those kind of specs, im sure Apple will be able to sell a powermac with better specs for $2499!!

mrgreen4242
Jan 31, 2005, 09:40 AM
Hehe, I think when all these 3 CPU rumors started it was based off the reality that they will have a single dual core processor and a very advanced GPU.

I think a pretty likely guess for XBox Next specs are a dual cored "G5"-type PPC, each core running around 2ghz. If they are aiming for a release this year, if they shoot for next year, they may be able to go higher than that.

I'd be impressed to see some sort of HD based memory card that acted as an MP3 player as well. I hadn't heard that rumor before, and it's really a great idea. The Dreamcasts VMU units were a novel concept, but executed poorly. (For those who don't remember the DC VMU, it was the memory card, but it had a couple of buttons and a littel LCD screen that you use to play mini-games on).

I hear that new Nintendo console will use HD-DVD as well, but they will go for a 8cm sized disc again, so no DVD playback still? I'd expect to see a vidoe processor equal to the XBox's, as you mentioned, and a slow CPU set, allowing them to hit a lower price point, and keep it there. I'd be suprised to see Nintendo go for a HD inside the Revolution, for a lot of reasons. One, that just doesn't seem to be thier style. Two, it's what the XBox did LAST time, and they don't want to look like they are copying. And three, I think they want to keep the lowest price point possible, and produce lots of "E" rated games to try to get parents to buy it for their kids. I am hopefull that they will included a wired and wireless network adaptor, and launch some sort of online strategy. Using the Revolution as a wireless hub for the DS, and having some kind of integrated online enviroment for all of their systems would be a good move, imo.

Rob

Chaz
Jan 31, 2005, 12:07 PM
The rumor that the new Xbox is using multiple G5s started when developers began getting the development boxes - Apple Dual G5s. Right now, the only thing known is that IBM chips are being used in the new Xbox...they're probably variants of the 970 (G5) family.

Drgnhntr
Jan 31, 2005, 12:51 PM
Every video game system ever has been a loss leader!! I defy you to name one that wasn't. They all take several years to reach a point where marginal cost drops below price.

XBox is, however, apparently profitable now.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20987



Suggests that at $100 gamecube is being sold at cost.
http://www.techweb.com/wire/26802869

http://www.planetgamecube.com/mailbag.cfm?action=profile&id=92
4th question down. It also mentions that previous nintendo systems were profitable.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=6630
not sure I believe this, but they say it costs $20 to make a gamecube.

interviews
Jan. 14, 2004
IGNCube.com interviewed Perrin Kaplan, Nintendo of America vice president of corporate affairs to discuss Nintendo's position in the North American console market.

Q: Okay. Now GameCube is selling for $99 and it's doing great. But is Nintendo losing money on each unit sold?
Kaplan: I would say that our losses are really negligible. It's such a small amount. Plus with the amount of software that's being sold we're still definitely in a solid profit situation. We're not in the position that I know that Microsoft has been in with the loss Xbox hardware.

Pick your source. The last one from an actual nintendo rep said they have a negligible loss on each gamecube when priced at $99.

I don't think it is disputed that consoles are there to sell software. Microsoft had to cut into a market dominated by sony and nintendo. I believe they successfully did that, but they took a larger loss on each console then their competitors to do it. I think their entire xbox division has been in the red until recently thanks to halo 2 (feel free to correct me on this). I think that Microsoft will take a more conservative approach (not take a $200 loss per console) now that they have a solid user base.

As for the rumored specs of the next consoles, I don't see how they can be true. Those processors are not even in high end macs yet. How can microsoft possibly get that into a smaller console, for $300? Sure they have money to burn, but there will be a limit to what they can do technically and financially.

hvfsl
Jan 31, 2005, 01:00 PM
The rumor that the new Xbox is using multiple G5s started when developers began getting the development boxes - Apple Dual G5s. Right now, the only thing known is that IBM chips are being used in the new Xbox...they're probably variants of the 970 (G5) family.

Actually the rumors started long before that (late 2003/early 2004). The rumored details are too detailed in my opinion to be made up by a fan, they contain a lot of info that very few people (besides developers would understand).

mrgreen4242
Jan 31, 2005, 01:01 PM
Suggests that at $100 gamecube is being sold at cost.
http://www.techweb.com/wire/26802869

http://www.planetgamecube.com/mailbag.cfm?action=profile&id=92
4th question down. It also mentions that previous nintendo systems were profitable.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=6630
not sure I believe this, but they say it costs $20 to make a gamecube.

interviews
Jan. 14, 2004
IGNCube.com interviewed Perrin Kaplan, Nintendo of America vice president of corporate affairs to discuss Nintendo's position in the North American console market.

Q: Okay. Now GameCube is selling for $99 and it's doing great. But is Nintendo losing money on each unit sold?
Kaplan: I would say that our losses are really negligible. It's such a small amount. Plus with the amount of software that's being sold we're still definitely in a solid profit situation. We're not in the position that I know that Microsoft has been in with the loss Xbox hardware.

Pick your source. The last one from an actual nintendo rep said they have a negligible loss on each gamecube when priced at $99.

I don't think it is disputed that consoles are there to sell software. Microsoft had to cut into a market dominated by sony and nintendo. I believe they successfully did that, but they took a larger loss on each console then their competitors to do it. I think their entire xbox division has been in the red until recently thanks to halo 2 (feel free to correct me on this). I think that Microsoft will take a more conservative approach (not take a $200 loss per console) now that they have a solid user base.

As for the rumored specs of the next consoles, I don't see how they can be true. Those processors are not even in high end macs yet. How can microsoft possibly get that into a smaller console, for $300? Sure they have money to burn, but there will be a limit to what they can do technically and financially.

THere may be $20 worth of parts in a GameCube, but that doesn't mean that it costs $20. You have to factor in the development of the hardware and software of course, and the packaging, advertising, shipping it to the retailer, etc.

By now they've paid off the cost of development, and there is minimal advertising for the system at this point, just for the games. I'd buy that they are breaking even on the GC at $99 now. They were losing money on them at the start though.

Early Nintendo hardware probably was at least slightly profitable. They didn't have to face other giant compotition for market share then, either. Sure, Sega had good stuff, but Nintendo was the "big dog" so to speak. It's a new market now.

It's hard to guess what may be in the Xbox Next. Thinking about the fact that the current Xbox has a 733mhz P3, 128mb ram (or is it 64?), and a GPU that is, what, DirectX 7 compliant, it still manages to pull off some pretty impressive graphics.

Even a single core 970 running at sub-2ghz, customized for power, heat, and cost savings, coupled with a DirectX 9 level card and lots of memory, I am sure that they will be able to out-do even the nicest PC gaming rigs for eye candy.

Rob

Chaz
Jan 31, 2005, 01:11 PM
The rumor that the new Xbox is using multiple G5s started when developers began getting the development boxes - Apple Dual G5s. Right now, the only thing known is that IBM chips are being used in the new Xbox...they're probably variants of the 970 (G5) family.

combatcolin
Feb 1, 2005, 07:15 AM
REMOVEABLE HARD DRIVES FOR xBox 2?

Very much dought it, Microsoft have alreadfy signed a deal with a flash ram company so its an almost certain that the xBox will either have a GB or 2 of on board save ram or high capicity save ram.

From Microsoft's point of view, the HD has been a failure - not enough game devs use it and it takes up A LOT of space.

Still an inspired move from Microsoft, don't have to worry about Save game Cards and when the xBox 2 is out i'll mod my xBox.

And, yes i do think the 2 machines will be combatible - very stupid having the same name if there not.

LethalWolfe
Feb 3, 2005, 08:13 PM
Uh-Oh, Microsoft wants to repeat Sega's mistakes?! :eek:


It's not really the same boat. PS1 was fantasically huge and people were waiting for years for the PS2 and embracing it's out of control hype machine. That coupled w/the fact that Sega had been out of the game for too long and the SegaCD left a bad taste in the mouths of a lot of gamers.

Launching pre PS2 was the lesser of 3 evils (launch before, at the same time, or after).

The situation today is completely different. The field is more level and, if anything, the Xbox has the buzz and the momentum leading into the next generation of consoles (at least in the US). People are speculating about the next Xbox today as much as they were bashing the original Xbox when it first came out and sony isn't the superforce it was back in the PS1 & early PS2 days.


Lethal

aswitcher
Feb 3, 2005, 10:15 PM
I would like a HDD media server version for a little extra...

If its not backwards compatible that will be disappointing...