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View Full Version : Apple's decision regarding Mac Mini BTO option pricing is immoral and unethical


johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 01:46 PM
Apple has just dropped the prices significantly for BTO options on the new Mac Mini (US only apparently):
http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/01/20050125124129.shtml

The value of these options has not significantly changed in the past two weeks. This appears to be an attempt by Apple to gouge the Mac fanatics they knew would buy right away and buy with a lot of extras added. After all the early adopters (the ones most likely to max them out) got their computers, they dropped the insane prices on the BTO options before too many people realized how insane they actually were.

Even if they do offer to pay the difference to those who bought one earlier, most will not even be aware of the BTO options price drop, and will possibly be out over a hundred dollars or more. This is blatantly unethical behavior by Apple, and unless Apple can provide a solution to this problem and prove what happened was not an intentional way to squeeze more money out of the initial surge of customers, my current mac will by my last.

*has no time for capitalists*

edesignuk
Jan 25, 2005, 01:50 PM
This is blatantly unethical behavior by Apple, and unless Apple can provide a solution to this problem and prove what happened was not an intentional way to squeeze more money out of the initial surge of customers, my current mac will by my last.

*has no time for capitalists*
I understand what you're saying. But how does never buying a Mac again (and presumably using Windows/Linux) hurt anyone but you?

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 01:52 PM
Well it hurts Apple. They're not getting my money.

Besides... It's a moral issue. If people don't "vote" with their dollars, then we have absolutely no control over what corporations do. If you buy whatever is the cheapest or best for you, then don't complain when companies like Wal*Mart start destroying the country. Just because Wal*Mart's products are the cheapest doesn't mean I can morally justify buying stuff from them. Same for Apple. If they're going to take advantage of consumers, I cannot morally justify giving them any money.

Besides, NetBSD runs fine on my Powerbook.

TheMac19
Jan 25, 2005, 01:55 PM
This appears to be an attempt by Apple to gouge the Mac fanatics [...who...] will not even be aware of the BTO options price drop, and will possibly be out over a hundred dollars or more. This is blatantly unethical behavior by Apple,

Funny, I would lean towards saying that "Mac fanatics" WOULD be aware of the price drop, and most would be aware of Apple's price protection policy. We don't yet know apple's rationale or response, but certainly many "fanatics" have already phoned apple regarding the pricing issue - as shown in the first thread on the subject.

It is an interesting move to say the least. there was another thread about the airport/bluetooth integration, which explain that price drop quite succinctly.

edesignuk
Jan 25, 2005, 01:56 PM
Apple take the piss out of their customers all the time. Hell, the prices they charge pretty much everyone outside the US for anything is a rip off to what you guys have to pay. They promise 3GHz, and don't deliver. They take FOREVER to deliver any new product, and the list goes on. I just don't see why you've taken this long to fly off the handle if morals are so important to you.

Sun Baked
Jan 25, 2005, 01:58 PM
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11368&stc=1

People complained about the price of the BTO options, and he get's mad. http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6694&stc=1

What a nimrod, Apple did what the consumer asked...

People can take advantage of Apple's Price Protection plan if their BTO machine shipped within 10 days of the price change -- but these people will probably spend all their time mad an miss out on the 14 days from shipment cutoff for claiming their rebate.

Either that, or they'll be plain lazy and miss out.PRICES
The Apple Store endeavors to offer you competitive prices on current Apple products and selected Sale and Apple Certified Reconditioned products. Your total order price will include the price of the product (on the day of shipping) plus any applicable sales tax and shipping charges. Apple reserves the right to change prices for products displayed at the Apple Store at any time.

Should Apple reduce its price on any shipped product within 10 calendar days of shipment, you may contact Apple Sales Support at 1-800-676-2775 to request a refund or credit of the difference between the price you were charged and the current selling price. To receive the refund or credit you must contact Apple within 14 business days of shipment.

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 01:58 PM
Funny, I would lean towards saying that "Mac fanatics" WOULD be aware of the price drop, and most would be aware of Apple's price protection policy. We don't yet know apple's rationale or response, but certainly many "fanatics" have already phoned apple regarding the pricing issue - as shown in the first thread on the subject.

It is an interesting move to say the least. there was another thread about the airport/bluetooth integration, which explain that price drop quite succinctly.

If there is a reason for it, fine. I'm not sure how you explain the RAM price changes though. Or the hard drives.

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 02:00 PM
Apple take the piss out of their customers all the time. Hell, the prices they charge pretty much everyone outside the US for anything is a rip off to what you guys have to pay. They promise 3GHz, and don't deliver. They take FOREVER to deliver any new product, and the list goes on. I just don't see why you've taken this long to fly off the handle if morals are so important to you.

I'm an American. I'm good at ignoring the injustices committed by leaders of groups I am part of.

100,000 Iraqis are dead. I still pay taxes to give the military more money to kill more arabs. Compared to that, I'm surprised I have the energy to get pissed at Apple at all.

(This is a personal justification for edesignuk. Please do not turn this into a political thread and get it locked.)

wordmunger
Jan 25, 2005, 02:01 PM
You're right. It's unethical and immoral to ever decrease prices. The people who bought the items before the price cuts might feel bad. :rolleyes:

Laslo Panaflex
Jan 25, 2005, 02:02 PM
Has anyone even called and asked if you could be refunded if you paid the old BTO prices for your addons? Maybe Apple will refund you, if not send it back, pay the restocking fee then reorder, I bet you still we be better off price wise, even with the restocking fee.

Also, maybe Apple lowered the BTO prices becuase not many people were upgrading the mini's and just getting them stock, I know my work got a stock one because the prices were too high. Or maybe Apple is just making up for the now 3-4 week wait for the mini by lowering the BTO prices. Sure, the people that have them NOW paid more than the people that don't but that's what you get when you are an early adopter . . .

Really, I don't see how lowering prices is a bad thing, and if I got a maxed out mini, and they changed the prices, I would contact apple and see what options I have for compensation, not complaining on a message board.

p.s. if you have no time for capitalists, you should remove yourself from western civilization as we know it. :rolleyes:

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 02:03 PM
What a nimrod, Apple did what the consumer asked...

I'm hardly a nimrod. The initial prices were nothing but insane. Over $450 for 1GB RAM?! They were taking advantage of customers who didn't know better, or those who worship Apple and really wanted a new maxed out Mac Mini.

People can take advantage of Apple's Price Protection plan if their BTO machine shipped within 10 days of the price change -- but these people will probably spend all their time mad an miss out on the 14 days from shipment cutoff for claiming their rebate.

For those who do not regularly check rumors sites (most Mac buyers) and for those who do not check the Apple store to see if there were unannounced price changes daily (just about everyone), how are they going to know? This attitude of, "If they don't know, screw em!" is just as disgusting as Apple's actions.

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 02:05 PM
You're right. It's unethical and immoral to ever decrease prices. The people who bought the items before the price cuts might feel bad. :rolleyes:

Consider the context for christ's sake. They cut prices two weeks after it was introduced, right after the initial shipments went out. There is NO reason why this should happen unless it was an intentional maneuver to sucker more money out of the early adopters.

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 02:06 PM
Has anyone even called and asked if you could be refunded if you paid the old BTO prices for your addons? Maybe Apple will refund you, if not send it back, pay the restocking fee then reorder, I bet you still we be better off price wise, even with the restocking fee.

This is not the point. Apple giving money back to those people that happened to notice that they were being taken advantage of doesn't make Apple's actions any less excusable.

p.s. if you have no time for capitalists, you should remove yourself from western civilization as we know it. :rolleyes:

It was tongue in cheek. Keep your eyes in your head please.

Sun Baked
Jan 25, 2005, 02:07 PM
Rants at MacRumors...

Almost as disgusting as the smell of SPAM getting incinerated by the mods.

Lacero
Jan 25, 2005, 02:07 PM
Crying over a couple of dollars is such a waste of time; there are greater things to worry about. This reminds me of some guy from Creative Cow who hollered and scream and shouted never to use Macs again because he felt he shouldn't have to pay for what he thought were point upgrades to OSX. When Apple started charging for 10.2, the guy flew off his handle, swearing never to use Apple products again. Well, we know where he ended up.

TheMac19
Jan 25, 2005, 02:09 PM
If there is a reason for it, fine. I'm not sure how you explain the RAM price changes though. Or the hard drives.

Maybe they dropped the prices so quickly so that everyone who ordered a mini COULD get their money back if they wanted to... If Apple had waited another 2 weeks to drop the prices, the initial burst of buyers would be stuck just outside price-protection territory, and left with no recourse. (and probably would be angrily venting on boards here too...) This way everyone wins with lower prices - with the exception of those who don't notice. (And what they don't know won't hurt them, they still have wonderful new machines, and were presumably quite happy paying the prices they paid at the time!)

Apple certainly watches all these mac boards... (what a great resource for free, real world R&D and focus group studies!) They probably realised that nobody was buying $400 sticks of ram for a $500 machine, and came to the simple conclusion that if they dropped the price of their 1gig RAM stick, loads more people would buy it, plus it would cut down on the number of people sticking putty knives inside their new mini's on day one, just to insert cheap ram. Indeed, maybe their larger hard drives weren't moving as quickly as they'd hoped either.

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 02:10 PM
Crying over a couple of dollars is such a waste of time; there are greater things to worry about. This reminds me of some guy from Creative Cow who hollered and scream and shouted never to use Macs again because he felt he shouldn't have to pay for what he thought were point upgrades to OSX. When Apple started charging for 10.2, the guy flew off his handle, swearing never to use Apple products again. Well, we know where he ended up.

In that case, the guy had no idea what he was talking about. However, in this case, if it becomes very obvious that Apple was blatantly taking advantage of their most trusting and loyal customers, that's a very different story.

wordmunger
Jan 25, 2005, 02:10 PM
Consider the context for christ's sake. They cut prices two weeks after it was introduced, right after the initial shipments went out. There is NO reason why this should happen unless it was an intentional maneuver to sucker more money out of the early adopters.

Prices fluctuate DAILY in the computer world. Apple had no idea the level of demand they would have for the mini. Perhaps they had a contract with suppliers for discounts after they reached a certain number of units. They couldn't reasonably price the computers that low until they reached that number. There are LOTS of reasons to do this. Given the high demand, Apple could have easily just kept the high prices, but they chose to lower them. Consumers who are upset can complain to the company and will likely be given a refund. Others are presumably happy with their purchases.

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 02:11 PM
Maybe they dropped the prices so quickly so that everyone who ordered a mini COULD get their money back if they wanted to... If Apple had waited another 2 weeks to drop the prices, the initial burst of buyers would be stuck just outside price-protection territory, and left with no recourse. (and probably would be angrily venting on boards here too...) This way everyone wins with lower prices - with the exception of those who don't notice. (And what they don't know won't hurt them, they still have wonderful new machines, and were presumably quite happy paying the prices they paid at the time!)

I'm not ready to write them off yet. I'm waiting for more information. Just to clarify.

I'm not too optimistic however.

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 02:12 PM
Prices fluctuate DAILY in the computer world. Apple had no idea the level of demand they would have for the mini. Perhaps they had a contract with suppliers for discounts after they reached a certain number of units. They couldn't reasonably price the computers that low until they reached that number.

Ram isn't exactly in low supply nowadays. If *we* can get it for $230, I see no reason why apple was charging $450+. Be reasonable.

QCassidy352
Jan 25, 2005, 02:13 PM
Did the early shoppers know what they were getting? Yes.

Did they choose to pay the money anyway? Yes.

Is what they paid for any less functional today because the same thing can now be had for less? No.

Early buyers of the mini were not tricked, not deceived, not conned. They knew what they were getting and what it cost. Whether or not apple dropped the price two weeks later has no impact on those early buyers whatsoever.

It's time that people learned that Apple is a BUSINESS, which means they are interested in MAKING MONEY. They will raise and lower prices in ways that help them make money just like any other business. And they haven't even *approached* the "unethical" line here.

jsw
Jan 25, 2005, 02:14 PM
Let me see if I have this right:

Many, many, many people decided to buy a mini with upgrades. Anyone who did so thought that the price was reasonable enough to buy the system. Some of those upgrades are now cheaper. Anyone who ordered a mini qualifies for a rebate, as, of course, none of them had shipped ten days ago. Most people will get, say, the better DVD burner because that's the part they're using now. Automatically. And they'll likely get charged less. Automatically.

So, basically, Apple lowered prices soon enough so that everyone who ever bought a mini would qualify for a refund, instead of waiting, say, 10 more days to screw the early adopters.

They also improved at least two of the options (faster burner, all-in-one AE/BT board).

I guess I am failing to see what is wrong here.

bousozoku
Jan 25, 2005, 02:14 PM
I'm really disappointed that Apple would produce a computer that was reasonably-priced and finally figure out that the BTO options were not so reasonably-priced and adjust them downward. :D

After all the people who complain about Apple, this is a step in the right direction, especially if they refund money as quietly as they changed prices. :)

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 02:17 PM
So, basically, Apple lowered prices soon enough so that everyone who ever bought a mini would qualify for a refund, instead of waiting, say, 10 more days to screw the early adopters

We don't know about that yet though. If that's the case, fine.

P.S. Nice avatar.

solvs
Jan 25, 2005, 02:18 PM
Wow, I thought you were kidding.

Well, if you do decide to go WinTel, I'm sure you'll be fine. It's not like prices fluctuate at all on that side. :rolleyes: * Apple just lowered prices BTO on an item that's almost impossible to get unless it's stock. I somehow doubt anyone is going to be too pissed over $40 to stop enjoying their new Mini.

* (complain about the :rolleyes: all you want, but be prepared to get a lot of them)

QCassidy352
Jan 25, 2005, 02:18 PM
However, in this case, if it becomes very obvious that Apple was blatantly taking advantage of their most trusting and loyal customers, that's a very different story.

Taking advantage of their customers?? You're just not seeing this rationally. They didn't force anyone to buy minis at the original price. People very gladly did that on their own. Apparently they didn't feel cheated or you know what they could have done? Yep, you got it - not bought a mini at those prices.

Anyone who bought a mini early did so because they decided that what they were getting was worth the price. Apple didn't do anything sneaky or underhanded. Those who got minis early got exactly what they expected to get for the price that they expected to pay.

Apple made no guarantees, explicitly, implicitly, or otherwise, about prices changing or not. Anyone who chooses to assume when the price is going to change or stay constant does so at their own risk. I have a new style 20" cinema display bought at the old price. Am I crying now that they lowered it by $300? No, because I knew what I was getting and I decided at the time that it was worth the price I had to pay. Subsequent changes in price have no bearing whatsoever on my decision at the time it was made.

Bear
Jan 25, 2005, 02:19 PM
Apple has just dropped the prices significantly for BTO options on the new Mac Mini (US only apparently):
http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/01/20050125124129.shtml

The value of these options has not significantly changed in the past two weeks. This appears to be an attempt by Apple to gouge the Mac fanatics they knew would buy right away and buy with a lot of extras added. After all the early adopters (the ones most likely to max them out) got their computers, they dropped the insane prices on the BTO options before too many people realized how insane they actually were.

...Actually memory prices have been dropping over the past couple of weeks. Who knows what else Apple had cost reductions on.

If you don't like, go find another sandbox to play in and leave us alone.

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 02:19 PM
It's time that people learned that Apple is a BUSINESS, which means they are interested in MAKING MONEY. They will raise and lower prices in ways that help them make money just like any other business.

Right. And I am a consumer. I will bitch when I think a corporation does something that appears wrong to me.

If people knew they could get more for $100 less two weeks later, do you think they would've bought it? No way. It very likely WAS an intentional deceptive tactic. :mad:

cmvsm
Jan 25, 2005, 02:20 PM
Yes...and all of you G5 dual model purchasers need to boycott Apple for lowering the prices on those after you spent your hard earned dollars buying them when they just came out at inflated pricing!!! Ooohhh Ahhhhh....yes...and furthermore....WHA WAA WHA WAA.... :D

Give me a break. Surely there's other things to complain about with a little bit of substance.

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 02:20 PM
Actually memory prices have been dropping over the past couple of weeks. Who knows what else Apple had cost reductions on.

If you don't like, go find another sandbox to play in and leave us alone.

Same for you if you don't like me voicing my opinion here. I'm not making you read it.

jsw
Jan 25, 2005, 02:22 PM
Right. And I am a consumer. I will bitch when I think a corporation does something that appears wrong to me.

If people knew they could get more for $100 less two weeks later, do you think they would've bought it? No way. It very likely WAS an intentional deceptive tactic. :mad:
They can get their money back. Over the phone. And they paid what they thought was a reasonable price then.

Ever buy a PC? This happens all the time. And it is good for consumers.

Same or better product + lower price = consumer benefit.

Always.

Had they increased the price, would you have complained? What is the acceptable grace period before which prices can be reduced?

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 02:22 PM
Yes...and all of you G5 dual model purchasers need to boycott Apple for lowering the prices on those after you spent your hard earned dollars buying them when they just came out at inflated pricing!!! Ooohhh Ahhhhh....yes...and furthermore....WHA WAA WHA WAA.... :D

Apple didn't drop the prices on the G5s immediately after the first shipment was received. That's different. Prices fall naturally over time. Price do not naturally fall after the first shipment. Not on multiple items all at once in such a drastic way. RAM has not gone down in value 25% in the past week.

Sun Baked
Jan 25, 2005, 02:24 PM
Right. And I am a consumer. I will bitch when I think a corporation does something that appears wrong to me.

If people knew they could get more for $100 less two weeks later, do you think they would've bought it? No way. It very likely WAS an intentional deceptive tactic. :mad:If you bought a BTO and you think it was, file a complaint with the FTC.

www.ftc.gov

Of course the agent investigating that one will probably be laughing as hard as the school board who is dealing with the student who sued over too much homework.

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 02:24 PM
They can get their money back. Over the phone. And they paid what they thought was a reasonable price then.

Have you confirmed this? Even for those who placed the very first orders?

Same or better product + lower price = consumer benefit.

MY POINT is that the initial product should've been this price if they intended on doing it a week later anyway. Intentionally gouging unsuspecting people is NOT good for the consumer. Always. The initial RAM prices were crazy, even beyond their usual craziness.

jsw
Jan 25, 2005, 02:25 PM
Apple didn't drop the prices on the G5s immediately after the first shipment was received. That's different. Prices fall naturally over time. Price do not naturally fall after the first shipment. Not on multiple items all at once in such a drastic way. RAM has not gone down in value 25% in the past week.
It must kill you if a coupon/rebate ever comes out on something you bought four days ago. How horrible that companies lower prices! Horrible! Dear God, the humanity! If only every single consumer could get back the extra money they paid on a mini! No... wait... they can. :rolleyes:

jsw
Jan 25, 2005, 02:26 PM
Have you confirmed this? Even for those who placed the very first orders?
Apple's policy is you qualify if a reduction was announced within 10 days of your ship date. Every mini out there shipped less than ten days ago. Therefore, all mini owners who used the now-cheaper/better upgrades qualify. Every single one of them.

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 02:27 PM
It must kill you if a coupon/rebate ever comes out on something you bought four days ago. How horrible that companies lower prices! Horrible! Dear God, the humanity! If only every single consumer could get back the extra money they paid on a mini! No... wait... they can. :rolleyes:

THINK.

I am OBVIOUSLY not complaining about that. Someone is ALWAYS going to buy a product the day before a price drops. I am not saying what Apple did was wrong because they dropped the price after someone just bought it.

I am saying what Apple did was wrong because they artificially inflated the price for a very short period of time with the intention of screwing early adopters, getting a few extra bucks, and perhaps getting rid of some old Superdrives.

Drgnhntr
Jan 25, 2005, 02:28 PM
Didn't the mac mini just start shipping 3 days ago? If so, doesn't every single person that ordered one have another 11 days to contact apple and get a refund? Is anyone actually hurt by this price decrease? Have mac users run out of things to complain about that we are now complaining about price decreases?

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 02:29 PM
Apple's policy is you qualify if a reduction was announced within 10 days of your ship date. Every mini out there shipped less than ten days ago. Therefore, all mini owners who used the now-cheaper/better upgrades qualify. Every single one of them.

Is this process automatic? If it is, I'll shut up right now and apologize for wasting your time.

However, if it isn't, I'd venture a guess that most people won't learn abotu this for at least another few days, if ever, in which case they will no longer be able to get the difference refunded.

QCassidy352
Jan 25, 2005, 02:31 PM
Right. And I am a consumer. I will bitch when I think a corporation does something that appears wrong to me.

If people knew they could get more for $100 less two weeks later, do you think they would've bought it? No way. It very likely WAS an intentional deceptive tactic. :mad:

There was no deception here dude; that's what you're missing. If Apple had somehow promised that the old prices would be constant then and only then would you have a point. But any assumption to that effect was not based on anything apple said, but on your own preconceived notions about how prices usually change or don't change.

I'm not overly religious, but this reminds me of the parable Jesus told about the workers in the vineyard. If you're not familiar, it basically goes like this:

Rich guy needs workers for the day in his vineyard. Goes down to town square and hires people to work for a set amount for the day (say 3 silvers). Takes them to his vineyard, realizes he actually needs more workers. Goes back to town. This happens a couple more times.

At the end of the day, the rich guy pays the workers, and he gives each person 3 silvers. Well, the guys who went to work early starting bit*hing about how it's not fair, they did more work and should not be getting the same amount as the later workers. The rich guy turns to them and says, "We had a deal - you work for the day for 3 silvers. Well, you worked for the day and I paid you three silvers. You got exactly what I said I would give you for exactly the amount of work that you gave me. If I choose to be a little generous with these other workers, how does that hurt you?"

Bottom line is that early buyers got what they expected to get. No one promised them anything whatsoever about what future buyers would get (i.e. future price drops or upgrades). Your apple computer does NOT come with a sticker that says "we promise not to upgrade the product line or drop prices for 4 months after you buy this" despite what some people on this board seem to think.

TheMac19
Jan 25, 2005, 02:31 PM
Right. If people knew they could get more for $100 less two weeks later, do you think they would've bought it? No way. It very likely WAS an intentional deceptive tactic. :mad:

Let's think about this: All together now: there's only a $100+ price difference if you bought a 1gig RAM stick BTO with the mini, right? There are other differences, but we're not at or over $100 without the gig of RAM. NOBODY pays $450 for RAM on a computer that costs $499 total, without some real good reason. Switchers and newbies who were lured by the nice cheap mini weren't conned into buying a gigantic stick of RAM anymore than they were conned into getting a $3000 monitor as an accessory. If you bought a mini, and insisted that it must have a gig of ram in it, then you very likely know how much a gig of RAM is worth... (As we've all said, if you thought it was worth the cash then, great, nobody forced you into it...)

Furthermore, if you must play vigilante for all those "suckers" who were conned out of their hard earned cash by an "intentional deceptive tactic" -- know that the number of people you're fighting for is very small. If the 1gig RAM chips had been flying off the shelves at that price, Apple wouldn't have lowered the price. I'm guessing very VERY few new minis went out with a gig of ram in them. Sure, some did, but for many of those people, money likely wasn't their first concern...

jsw
Jan 25, 2005, 02:33 PM
THINK.

I am OBVIOUSLY not complaining about that. Someone is ALWAYS going to buy a product the day before a price drops. I am not saying what Apple did was wrong because they dropped the price after someone just bought it.

I am saying what Apple did was wrong because they artificially inflated the price for a very short period of time with the intention of screwing early adopters, getting a few extra bucks, and perhaps getting rid of some old Superdrives.
Had this happened 11 days after first shipment, maybe I'd agree. It didn't.

solvs
Jan 25, 2005, 02:35 PM
If people knew they could get more for $100 less two weeks later, do you think they would've bought it? No way. It very likely WAS an intentional deceptive tactic. :mad:
Intentional! Now I know you're joking. Why would Apple intentionally do this? Just to gouge a few people out of a few hundred dollars? You can't be serious.

takao
Jan 25, 2005, 02:35 PM
hmm i ordered mine on the 13th,transfered money and got the 'order confirmed' email on the 20th... so should i call as soon as they change specs/prices on the austrian/german sites (if they do) ? from which day does this 10 days policy count ?
my mini is shipping on 17/2 or before

if if they update prcies here to what happens with the money i transfered 'too much' to apple ?

sorry for posting this in here but i'm kinda confused now...

i hope this clears up tommorow...

mrclark411
Jan 25, 2005, 02:36 PM
Looks like Target is either changing their mind about the Mac mini or doing something big with it.

http://enterprisemac.typepad.com

jxyama
Jan 25, 2005, 02:37 PM
guys,

instead of just bashing on the guy, think for a sec. what he is saying is fairly reasonable. i wouldn't say "immoral and unethical" as there are more important things that are "immoral and unethical" than apple price drops, but this is highly unusual and a very extreme case of a price drop, apple or otherwise.

yes, people who bought it BTO the first few weeks bought it under their own terms, etc., etc. but the thing is, it's highly unusual for a brand new product to significantly lower its price so quickly after its introduction - in fact, the price drop occured just a few days after when the initial pre-orders are expected to be delivered. a "complaint" that if they meant to lower the price this soon after the introduction, it would have been the "correct" thing for apple to release at the lower price to begin with.

i agree with the sentiment that apple probably should offer an explanation or a blanket rebate (or at worst, store credit) to the initial BTO purchasers for the sake of good PR. yes, apple is here to make money, but this is an extremely bad PR move if they don't do anything about it. NO, it probably wasn't intentional. but the timing is so bad that if it's not intentional, an explanation wouldn't hurt.

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 02:38 PM
Intentional! Now I know you're joking. Why would Apple intentionally do this? Just to gouge a few people out of a few hundred dollars? You can't be serious.

So what's the real reason then? I'm waiting for an official, reasonable response. Excuse me for not assuming that a corporation dropped their prices because they had my best interests at heart.

I agree it doesn't make much sense.

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 02:40 PM
guys,

instead of just bashing on the guy, think for a sec. what he is saying is fairly reasonable. i wouldn't say "immoral and unethical" as there are more important things that are "immoral and unethical" than apple price drops, but this is highly unusual and a very extreme case of a price drop, apple or otherwise.

Thanks man. In regards to the extreme language, I'm just excitable today. I realize its not an international crisis.

yes, people who bought it BTO the first few weeks bought it under their own terms, etc., etc. but the thing is, it's highly unusual for a brand new product to significantly lower its price so quickly after its introduction - in fact, the price drop occured just a few days after when the initial pre-orders are expected to be delivered. a "complaint" that if they meant to lower the price this soon after the introduction, it would have been the "correct" thing for apple to release at the lower price to begin with.

Right. If this happened for a reason, fine. However, if this was the plan all along just to get some extra money, than that should be looked at in a very negative manner.

Nice to see that someone isn't blinded with loyalty here.

Sun Baked
Jan 25, 2005, 02:42 PM
He's got my vote for MR Member mostly likely to go off his rocker and explode at an Apple Store when the salesperson let's a Pro Plan member cut in front of him at the cash register.

zelmo
Jan 25, 2005, 02:45 PM
Damn them to hell.
Apple drops the BTO prices on a product that was announced two weeks ago. Umm, have any of the BTO orders even shipped yet? If you have an order waiting to ship, won't they automatically adjust your invoice to reflect current pricing? Even if they shipped your order already, don't you have 10 days from ship date to return it? Most likely, this is a non event, make that a good event, even for the earliest of adopters.
It's also most likely a reaction to the realization that people were complaining about the cost to upgrade the mini, or because people just weren't placing enough BTO orders due to the cost of the options.

Seems like Apple initially priced themselves too high (typical), recognized it quickly (curious), and made a smart adjustment that will not negatively impact buyers (astoundingly good).

Now, if there are people who end up not getting a refund or adjustment, then people can be pissed. Don't be going off half-cocked until we know thw whole story.

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 02:45 PM
He's got my vote for MR Member mostly likely to go off his rocker and explode at an Apple Store when the salesperson let's a Pro Plan member cut in front of him at the cash register.

You may be right...

jxyama
Jan 25, 2005, 02:46 PM
basically, my point is, apple can't complain to be regarded as if they did this intentionally to milk some money from the initial rush of BTO orders. because that's exactly what it looks like.

if they want to dispell that, they should provide an explanation. if they don't want to dispell it, that's apple's prerogative. but i think that's a very bad PR move.

remember, this product didn't exist at all until two weeks ago. this isn't some price drop on long existing products.

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 02:51 PM
The voice of reason!

jsw
Jan 25, 2005, 02:56 PM
Let's keep in mind that this doesn't really apply to minis bought in brick-n-mortar stores, since basically none of them had upgrades around except for the 512MB RAM one, the price of which hasn't changed. Also, most of the minis in the queue from the online Store haven't shipped yet. I doubt that many at all BTO minis have shipped.

So, of the small number of BTO minis that added 1GB sticks and/or a SuperDrive (and AE/BT, but that is a negligible price drop), a small number have shipped, and they're all qualified for a refund.

Why anyone would pay over $1000 for a mini (if they're upping it to 1GB or adding a SuperDrive, you can bet they bought the $600 model) is beyond me, and even those people can get their money back.

How much extra do you think Apple's going to get off the few who don't bother to get their money refunded and whose tricked-out minis have shipped? $100,000? That is not even worth bothering over for Apple, esp. given the possible bad publicity.

The price drops are because nobody was upgrading the mini, not because vast hordes were doing so.

Hodapp
Jan 25, 2005, 03:02 PM
Ok I just got off the phone with Apple, here's the skinny:

My two built to order Minis, which haven't shipped yet, were automatically reduced in priced, and I hadn't even been billed yet for them since they hadn't shipped yet. I got the 4x SuperDrive upgraded to the 8x, and the woman on the phone said something to the effect of, "I'm sure they probably would have done that anyway even if you didn't call."

NERD RAGE!!!

Also, I just recieved this email:


To Our Valued Apple Customer:

Thank you for your recent order.

We are writing to inform you that your order has been changed to reflect our
new, lower pricing!

Please visit the Apple Store online at <http://www.apple.com/store> to see the
latest pricing information for this product and many others!

Thank you for shopping at the Apple Store.

Apple Store Customer Support

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 03:02 PM
So you're saying the priced it high, and because no one bought it, they dropped it?

If that's the case, I guess I can't blame Apple, just capitalism in general.

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 03:03 PM
Ok I just got off the phone with Apple, here's the skinny:

My two built to order Minis, which haven't shipped yet, were automatically reduced in priced, and I hadn't even been billed yet for them since they hadn't shipped yet. I got the 4x SuperDrive upgraded to the 8x, and the woman on the phone said something to the effect of, "I'm sure they probably would have done that anyway even if you didn't call."

NERD RAGE!!!

Good to hear.

jayscheuerle
Jan 25, 2005, 03:04 PM
... It's a moral issue.

Actually, it's an ethical issue. BIG difference...

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 03:04 PM
*hugs his Mac*

Move along people, nothing to see here!!!

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 03:05 PM
Actually, it's an ethical issue. BIG difference...

If I don't use loaded words randomly, who will?

jxyama
Jan 25, 2005, 03:05 PM
How much extra do you think Apple's going to get off the few who don't bother to get their money refunded and whose tricked-out minis have shipped? $100,000? That is not even worth bothering over for Apple, esp. given the possible bad publicity.

that's exactly why apple should issue a blanket refund to all BTO buyers affected and, at the very least issue an explanation. that "chump" change mean a lot more to the buyers than to apple.

edit: i see that apple did exactly this for at least one person, io_burn. i assume they will do this for everyone who ordered relevant BTO options. i sure hope so.

QCassidy352
Jan 25, 2005, 03:06 PM
Right. If this happened for a reason, fine. However, if this was the plan all along just to get some extra money, than that should be looked at in a very negative manner.

Nice to see that someone isn't blinded with loyalty here.

You're talking about a company that just posted a net profit of $295 million for the first quarter. And your theory is that this price drop was a "scam" calculated to get maybe $100,000, if that, off their customers. I hope you'll excuse me if I'm somewhat skeptical. :rolleyes:

jsw is right on. There is a much simpler, much less paranoid, much more plausible explanation for this. That Apple was getting lots of stock mini orders but not as many custom orders as they wanted/expected. So they lowered the price to make it a more attractive option. But no, what am I saying... it must have been a trick to screw the "faithful" for an extra .03% profit this quarter. :rolleyes:

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 03:07 PM
that's exactly why apple should issue a blanket refund to all BTO buyers affected and, at the very least issue an explanation. that "chump" change mean a lot more to the buyers than to apple.

If they do this automatically to all people who bought it online, then I'm fine with it. In fact, it's a good thing.

zelmo
Jan 25, 2005, 03:07 PM
Ok I just got off the phone with Apple, here's the skinny:

My two built to order Minis, which haven't shipped yet, were automatically reduced in priced, and I hadn't even been billed yet for them since they hadn't shipped yet. I got the 4x SuperDrive upgraded to the 8x, and the woman on the phone said something to the effect of, "I'm sure they probably would have done that anyway even if you didn't call."

NERD RAGE!!!

Also, I just recieved this email:


Hmmmm....tally it up:

Apple releases products aimed squarely at people who need a low cost entry to OS X.

Apple lowers the pricing on BTO options.

Apple proactively makes the price adjustment effective on all orders.

Clearly, the Apocalypse is upon us!

That's it. I'm switching to Windows! :eek:

solvs
Jan 25, 2005, 03:08 PM
Right. If this happened for a reason, fine. However, if this was the plan all along just to get some extra money, than that should be looked at in a very negative manner.
It probably cost them more in changing the advertisments, web page, updating dealers, etc than they made in the money they got from these early adopters. You just disproved your own argument. Why would they do it? As jsw said, it probably because no one was buying the upgrades, and those that did haven't even received them yet.

Edit: glad to see you're letting it go.

QCassidy352
Jan 25, 2005, 03:09 PM
that's exactly why apple should issue a blanket refund to all BTO buyers affected and, at the very least issue an explanation. that "chump" change mean a lot more to the buyers than to apple.

edit: i see that apple did exactly this for at least one person, io_burn. i assume they will do this for everyone who ordered relevant BTO options. i sure hope so.

Issue an explanation for lowering prices? Um, no, that's ok. They can lower prices every day of the week and not explain themselves to me. :) Now if prices went UP maybe I'd care about getting an explanation...

edit: yes, I too am glad to see that perhaps we're all almost ready to let apple slide on this one. ;) I think we're done here. :)

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 03:09 PM
There is a much simpler, much less paranoid, much more plausible explanation for this.

Possibly. But hey, someone has to be the paranoid one. The paranoid are occasionally the only ones who know what's actually going on.

jxyama
Jan 25, 2005, 03:10 PM
You're talking about a company that just posted a net profit of $295 million for the first quarter. And your theory is that this price drop was a "scam" calculated to get maybe $100,000, if that, off their customers. I hope you'll excuse me if I'm somewhat skeptical. :rolleyes:

jsw is right on. There is a much simpler, much less paranoid, much more plausible explanation for this. That Apple was getting lots of stock mini orders but not as many custom orders as they wanted/expected. So they lowered the price to make it a more attractive option. But no, what am I saying... it must have been a trick to screw the "faithful" for an extra .03% profit this quarter. :rolleyes:

hey, whatever the reason, you can't fault those who are affected by this for thinking the way they do. it may sound stupid or an overreaction to you, but i don't think so for those who are monetarily invested. if apple doesn't take retroactive action like they did with io_burn, people have legitimate reasons to be suspectful of apple and i don't find that unreasonable at all.

DanTheMan
Jan 25, 2005, 03:10 PM
Hey johnnowak take a deep breath and try to relax man. As some have said here Apple made the announcement within 10 days of the first batch of Mac Mini's shipping, if Apple really wanted to screw people wouldn't they wait a couple of weeks and then drop the price? Sure some people may not be aware of the price protection policy but that is part of being an informed buyer.

Besides who says this was something that was entirely within Apple's control? I mean prices fluctuate all the time on computer components it is all supply and demand. This time Apple decided to act sooner than later to reduce prices. What happens when you go to the supermarket and by a piece of fruit for $1 and then the next week prices drop so that same piece of fruit is now 50 cents? Are you going to rant and rave? Supply and demand that is all it is.

jxyama
Jan 25, 2005, 03:12 PM
Issue an explanation for lowering prices? Um, no, that's ok. They can lower prices every day of the week and not explain themselves to me. :) Now if prices went UP maybe I'd care about getting an explanation...

oh come on, give me a break. it's effectively a price raise for those who paid the higher price. if the price goes down but you were charged the higher amount, that's not a price drop for you, is it? you'd still not want an explanation? :rolleyes:

jxyama
Jan 25, 2005, 03:17 PM
Besides who says this was something that was entirely within Apple's control?

i don't want to be a thread police and counter every point, but choosing to lower the price of a mac is entirely within the control of apple. if component prices rise, then apple may not have much choise but to raise the price, but apple has 100% control over whether to charge more for their products.

the fruit example misses the point. there's an industry understanding, significant precedent that new computer hardware usually keep their value/price for at least a few months. if you pre-ordered a brand new model car today at $20k with $5k option and two weeks from now, the option price drops to $3k, wouldn't you complain?

za9ra22
Jan 25, 2005, 03:18 PM
Apple have been accused (and rightly so) of an awful lot of things in regard to their customers in the past, but to ascribe an intention to fleece the buying public in the form of, at most, a few thousand early adopters of a small amount each is really jumping to a pretty unlikely conclusion - particularly since the cost of dealing with customer complaints and refunds under the well published price protection policy would eat into the small 'profit' such a move could hope to make.

There are far more reasonable (and commercially level headed) reasons for Apple to have taken this action at this time.

Bear in mind firstly that the price hasn't changed one cent on what appears to be the most common Mini configurations - the basic 1.25 and 1.4GHz models themselves, and the 512Mb upgrades. If you assume these are the most common configurations (and it's at least as reasonable a supposition as John's claim to intentional dishonesty) then the majority of early adopters aren't affected at all. I wish they were - mine is a 1.25/512 model when they get round to making it. In any event, the number of purchasers who were 'caught out' by the deception are going to be rather small - and limited to only those who have a Mini in their possession as of today with a Superdrive or 1Gb RAM or Airport AND Bluetooth.

Would one imagine for one minute that some marketting/finance guy in Cupertino didn't realise that after 3 or 4 days scamming the public, with inflated prices, a price drop wouldn't cause enough of a ripple to create public comment - at least enough public comment to make a proportion of the early adopters who'd been fleeced aware of the fact and thus jump into price protection claims? If Apple are dishonest and deceptive, they must be extraordinarilly good at it to have been in business for so long in this volatile inductry - and certainly not stupid too. But it WOULD be stupid to build a deliberate and inflationary policy around such a small potential gain.

So if that wasn't the cause - speculate on what might have been. I would suggest an alternative that has Apple monitoring what the public and media have been saying about the Mini since it was announced, and particularly noting the comparisons being made between it and the sub-$500 PC models currently available - and particularly to the rather critical comments regarding how much the Mini LOOKS to be a good deal until you start adding the extras in to bring it up the the level of specification of other systems which cost less. I would suggest to the original poster that Apple are not stupid enough to realise that such comments if repeated often enough, will begin to leech sales, and the limelight, away from the Mini and thus risk stalling the whole 'low cost Mac' initiative.

I think Apple have had the chance to look at production costs, component sourcing and the level of take up and demand for this product, and have adjusted prices to help the Mini meet it's intended market target. I also think that if APple wanted to fleece it's customers to better effect, there are FAR better ways they could have done it to make far more money at far less risk of being caught out.

johnnowak
Jan 25, 2005, 03:18 PM
hey, whatever the reason, you can't fault those who are affected by this for thinking the way they do. it may sound stupid or an overreaction to you, but i don't think so for those who are monetarily invested. if apple doesn't take retroactive action like they did with io_burn, people have legitimate reasons to be suspectful of apple and i don't find that unreasonable at all.

Erm... I didn't actually buy one. :D

jxyama
Jan 25, 2005, 03:20 PM
Erm... I didn't actually buy one. :D

ha ha, that's pretty funny. but i don't think it matters much. it does look a bit "wrong."

zelmo
Jan 25, 2005, 03:28 PM
Erm... I didn't actually buy one. :D

beautiful! :D

Lancetx
Jan 25, 2005, 03:32 PM
What makes this any different than walking into a Best Buy (or any other retail store for that matter) and buying a stereo (or TV, computer, etc) for $349 on Saturday and then going back on Sunday and seeing it marked down to $299? It happens all the time.

Apple has a price match/price guarantee policy just like most retailers do, but if you don't notice that it went on sale, then it's your loss if you don't go back in (or call) to get the difference refunded to you. 99% of stores aren't going to just give it to you out of the goodness of their hearts. :p Geez, this is such a non issue it's not even funny...

za9ra22
Jan 25, 2005, 03:35 PM
ha ha, that's pretty funny. but i don't think it matters much. it does look a bit "wrong."

I guess 'a bit wrong' is better than 'immoral and unethical' then?!

I think almost everything about the Mac Mini is an issue of marketing, and that Apple knows it can't afford to have the product out there if it doesn't look sharply competitive. I think they know that Dell, HP and the other box-builders will jump as fast as possible to drop low-cost Mini-beaters into the market and that the Mini will only hold sales if it 'appears' to offer a competitive product that has value-added status in comparison to cheap PCs. I don't believe Apple can drop the price of the basic Mini units, at least not right now unless they are prepared to eat into the company's cash reserve, and I don't think they want to if they can avoid it. Instead, I think they want to create a sense of added value by making the options look like a better deal and thus helping to discourage the negative impact of 'still too expensive' talk in the press.

I also think Apple were surprised by the slant of much of the initial media feedback that instead of being amazed at the quality and style of the Mini and how much bang it gave for the buck, focussed much more tightly on the comparison with $300-$500 PCs. However one might argue those PCs are underpowered and lesser value, the Mini's target marget don't actually see that sort of thing - for many (if not most) it's the number on the price ticket that counts. So Apple reduced that number - not by much, but by what they hope is enough to rebalance the comparitive market.

jayscheuerle
Jan 25, 2005, 03:43 PM
What makes this any different than walking into a Best Buy (or any other retail store for that matter) and buying a stereo (or TV, computer, etc) for $349 on Saturday and then going back on Sunday and seeing it marked down to $299? It happens all the time.

No doubt. I plunked down $1499 on a 27" lcd hdtv this fall and a month later the Christmas sales began. It was $1199. Other than "Damn, I shoulda seen that coming", all I could do was shrug... and that was $300... - j

decksnap
Jan 25, 2005, 03:48 PM
Apple has just dropped the prices significantly for BTO options on the new Mac Mini (US only apparently):
http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/01/20050125124129.shtml

The value of these options has not significantly changed in the past two weeks. This appears to be an attempt by Apple to gouge the Mac fanatics they knew would buy right away and buy with a lot of extras added. After all the early adopters (the ones most likely to max them out) got their computers, they dropped the insane prices on the BTO options before too many people realized how insane they actually were.

Even if they do offer to pay the difference to those who bought one earlier, most will not even be aware of the BTO options price drop, and will possibly be out over a hundred dollars or more. This is blatantly unethical behavior by Apple, and unless Apple can provide a solution to this problem and prove what happened was not an intentional way to squeeze more money out of the initial surge of customers, my current mac will by my last.

*has no time for capitalists*

I'm sorry I don't have time to read this whole thread, so forgive me if somebody has said this... but give me a break! You don't like the prices, you don't buy it! No 'early adopter' was forced into buying ANYTHING. Dropping the prices is always a good thing. Nobody will be 'out over a hundred dollars or more', because a) (most importantly) they AGREED TO THAT PRICE when they bought it and forked over the dough! and b) they'll probably get the refund anyway.

Timelessblur
Jan 25, 2005, 03:56 PM
What makes this any different than walking into a Best Buy (or any other retail store for that matter) and buying a stereo (or TV, computer, etc) for $349 on Saturday and then going back on Sunday and seeing it marked down to $299? It happens all the time.

Apple has a price match/price guarantee policy just like most retailers do, but if you don't notice that it went on sale, then it's your loss if you don't go back in (or call) to get the difference refunded to you. 99% of stores aren't going to just give it to you out of the goodness of their hearts. :p Geez, this is such a non issue it's not even funny...


that not what people are tick about. that bugs people it more apple droping the price so soon after the release. I would not be surpised if they neted them selves a several extra K after it all said and done by doing this since a vaste majority of people WILL not call in and get it changed. It does not take much to add it up.

I pretty sure apple did this on purpose. Drop the price right after they started shipping to get some extra money out of the majority of people who got the upgrades but did not know about the price change or dont want to bother going though with it.

1macker1
Jan 25, 2005, 03:58 PM
I bought my Mac from comp usa a few years back. The price dropped two weeks later. I told the sales rep, i was refunded the difference, everyone is happy. I think apple should and will refund the difference.

DanTheMan
Jan 25, 2005, 04:00 PM
i don't want to be a thread police and counter every point, but choosing to lower the price of a mac is entirely within the control of apple. if component prices rise, then apple may not have much choise but to raise the price, but apple has 100% control over whether to charge more for their products.

the fruit example misses the point. there's an industry understanding, significant precedent that new computer hardware usually keep their value/price for at least a few months. if you pre-ordered a brand new model car today at $20k with $5k option and two weeks from now, the option price drops to $3k, wouldn't you complain?

So what would you call rebates then on new cars, happens all the time. My point is that there may have been a pricing scheme in place before the official release and now for whatever reason Apple is getting those same components for less. What Apple pays for something is not entirely in their control, prices have to be negotiated. Why are you faulting Apple for passing on savings and lowering their price to benefit the consumer?

pianojoe
Jan 25, 2005, 04:04 PM
You have much to much time on your hands.



They have a new product. Upgrade prices with Apple are astronomical as usual.
They recieve many complaints, maybe from PC users.
They lower the pricing for upgrades from astronomical to stratospherical.


Congratulations, Apple, and thank you!

But I still think I'll do the RAM and HD upgrade myself, as would most early adopters do, contrary to what the original poster said.

jxyama
Jan 25, 2005, 04:11 PM
I guess 'a bit wrong' is better than 'immoral and unethical' then?!

right in my first post in this thread, i said this isn't a matter of "immoral or unethical." :rolleyes:

jxyama
Jan 25, 2005, 04:17 PM
So what would you call rebates then on new cars, happens all the time. My point is that there may have been a pricing scheme in place before the official release and now for whatever reason Apple is getting those same components for less. What Apple pays for something is not entirely in their control, prices have to be negotiated. Why are you faulting Apple for passing on savings and lowering their price to benefit the consumer?

price of parts and such does not fluctuate much in two weeks. at least not so much that it warrants an actual price change and associated costs to go with it. if apple was so sensitive and flexible about adjusting prices, why don't you ask our non-U.S. members here how often apple adjusts the prices for changing currency exchange rates? apple adjusts the price of foreign products once every half a year or so. and those are much easier to quantify and happens on a daily basis.

this isn't apple passing on the savings. it's probably lowering the price to drive demand, but at the same time, pissing off some of the earlier buyers. whatever the case, this isn't quite the same thing as seeing the price of a fruit dropping at a grocery store, or the car example i gave, which apparently is incorrect.

Sun Baked
Jan 25, 2005, 04:21 PM
Apple was getting slammed/lambasted by people on the price of the Mini Upgrades.

With this change, they can say they are doing something about it... even if it still ends up costing quite a bit.

Moof1904
Jan 25, 2005, 04:39 PM
In my opinion, anyone who buys a product with a price guarantee (like Apple offers) bears the responsibility for monitoring the sale price of that item for the duration of the price guarantee period.

Those who fail to monitor the sales price and are therefore unaware of a subsequent price reduction have nobody but themselves to blame for losing the opportunity for a refund.

aswitcher
Jan 25, 2005, 04:46 PM
What a bizzare thread...immoral and unethical...week to week the world's biggest PC producer Dell change their deals with no protection for existing customers...are we calling this one a Troll Thread? ;)

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 25, 2005, 04:59 PM
Well it hurts Apple. They're not getting my money.

Besides... It's a moral issue. If people don't "vote" with their dollars, then we have absolutely no control over what corporations do. If you buy whatever is the cheapest or best for you, then don't complain when companies like Wal*Mart start destroying the country. Just because Wal*Mart's products are the cheapest doesn't mean I can morally justify buying stuff from them. Same for Apple. If they're going to take advantage of consumers, I cannot morally justify giving them any money.

Besides, NetBSD runs fine on my Powerbook.

So you'll never buy from a car manufacturer because they added features or a rebate after you bought? I understand that the issue is that the Mac mini is only two weeks old. But reports are that Apple is refunding the price difference to the consumers. That may not make up for the *x DVD (or maybe not based on the double talk that some are getting). In the end it may take a day or so. or week or so, but I am sure that Apple will take care of those that express in a nice calm voice their displeasure.

crees!
Jan 25, 2005, 05:03 PM
One word... waaaaaah. And two more, grow up.

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 25, 2005, 05:09 PM
Ram isn't exactly in low supply nowadays. If *we* can get it for $230, I see no reason why apple was charging $450+. Be reasonable.

Evidently you have a limited understanding how some stores price their goods. Apple was able to charge $450 because the consumer was willing to pay that price overall. There those like you and I that know better. But some don't.

The shame of the initial 1gb pricing was that Apple stated that RAM could only be installed as a BTO. Unlike most other Macs that allowed the users to decide on their own.

The other price drops were just a market adjustment based on initial BTO orders. Apple research probably showed that x% of units would be upgraded with y parts. When it did not happen with the initial orders they decided to take action. And based on comments on the MR, are refunding the difference.

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 25, 2005, 05:15 PM
Have you confirmed this? Even for those who placed the very first orders?



Have you taken the time to look at the thread that was dedicated to the price drops? Plenty of reports over there.

I understand your frustration. Maybe I missed it , but did you actually order/buy a Mac mini BEFORE the price drops?

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 25, 2005, 05:24 PM
I am saying what Apple did was wrong because they artificially inflated the price for a very short period of time with the intention of screwing early adopters, getting a few extra bucks, and perhaps getting rid of some old Superdrives.

Do you have absolute proof of this? Where is the "smoking gun". All we have is a company that within their price adjustment policy decided to lower the pricing.

No problem.

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 25, 2005, 05:27 PM
He's got my vote for MR Member mostly likely to go off his rocker and explode at an Apple Store when the salesperson let's a Pro Plan member cut in front of him at the cash register.

OT: are you taking over for "e"?

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 25, 2005, 05:32 PM
Possibly. But hey, someone has to be the paranoid one. The paranoid are occasionally the only ones who know what's actually going on.

But in the end there are many more serious issues to be paranoid over in the real world. Most of which are better off in the Political Forum.

Glad to see a calmer side starting to show.

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 25, 2005, 05:37 PM
ha ha, that's pretty funny. but i don't think it matters much. it does look a bit "wrong."

You have a point, but in the end did Ralph Nader buy one of Covairs (Corvairs) from Chevey?

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 25, 2005, 05:40 PM
What a bizzare thread...immoral and unethical...week to week the world's biggest PC producer Dell change their deals with no protection for existing customers...are we calling this one a Troll Thread? ;)

Right you are. I had that issue when I was trying to buy the 2005FPW, and ended up with the 2001FP being shipped instead. In my case it took a few emails and calls; but I ended up with the 2001FP and $125 in cash and Dell Gift cards in my pocket.

clayj
Jan 25, 2005, 05:41 PM
It seems to me that Apple has recognized that people are more willing than they originally thought to pop open their Mac minis, since it's apparently so easy to do... if no one was willing to self-upgrade their machines, or if they thought it couldn't be done, then Apple could (sort of) justify charging extra for certain add-ons.

But if any schmoe with a sanded-down putty knife can open his Mac mini and swap out the RAM or the hard drive in 5 minutes, then that's money that Apple won't get any part of. It makes sense that they'd reduce their BTO prices in order to get a piece of that action. It ALSO makes sense that they should proactively offer refunds/reimbursement to anyone who purchased a Mac mini with upgrades. (Sadly, my 1.42 GHz/80 GB machine didn't come down in price at all... ah well.)

(BTW, I bought my putty knife today... $2 at Home Depot. Ordered 1 GB RAM stick from 18004MEMORY, should arrive on Thursday.)

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 25, 2005, 05:43 PM
My apologies.

I thought I was stepping into a hot thread, and thought that there might be posts between mine.

I would appreciate any tips on how best to respind to hot topics so that I don't flood the thread like I just did.

(Hanging head in shame) :(

clayj
Jan 25, 2005, 05:46 PM
My apologies.

I thought I was stepping into a hot thread, and thought that there might be posts between mine.

I would appreciate any tips on how best to respind to hot topics so that I don't flood the thread like I just did.

(Hanging head in shame) :(How about this?:

1. Open Textedit or another text editor.
2. Click the QUOTE button for the first thread you want to respond to.
3. Copy the text from the browser window, and paste it into the text editor.
4. Repeat steps 2-3, until your text document is full of quotes.
5. Respond to each quote in the text document.
6. Copy the entire text from the text document, and paste it into a simple Reply.
7. Post.

That would help keep your post numbers down. :cool:

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 25, 2005, 05:58 PM
How about this?:

1. Open Textedit or another text editor.
2. Click the QUOTE button for the first thread you want to respond to.
3. Copy the text from the browser window, and paste it into the text editor.
4. Repeat steps 2-3, until your text document is full of quotes.
5. Respond to each quote in the text document.
6. Copy the entire text from the text document, and paste it into a simple Reply.
7. Post.

That would help keep your post numbers down. :cool:

Thanks. I just felt bad after getting to end and seeing a long thread of my posts. Personally I like it when there are individual posts, it makes it easier to address the comments being made. And in most cases it is not a problem. I should have know better after reading the first few posts of the original author.

mian
Jan 25, 2005, 06:09 PM
The price of my mini would still be the same 1.25, 512, airport, but I would have added the bluetooth for $20 and might have added the larger hard drive. So, Apple lost about $70 of revenue from me.

I think Apple is responding to the orders they have received to this point and are adjusting the product pricing based on orders. I'm sure they had estimates of what would sell, but actual orders will drive their pricing.

Sun Baked
Jan 25, 2005, 06:12 PM
OT: are you taking over for "e"?Nah, I would have had to take out the heavy ammo for that...

StarbucksSam
Jan 25, 2005, 06:42 PM
Well it hurts Apple. They're not getting my money.

Besides... It's a moral issue. If people don't "vote" with their dollars, then we have absolutely no control over what corporations do. If you buy whatever is the cheapest or best for you, then don't complain when companies like Wal*Mart start destroying the country. Just because Wal*Mart's products are the cheapest doesn't mean I can morally justify buying stuff from them. Same for Apple. If they're going to take advantage of consumers, I cannot morally justify giving them any money.

Besides, NetBSD runs fine on my Powerbook.

You're a crusader. I commend you. It's a shame that more of us aren't. If dollar vote meant anything to these companies, they'd stop treating us like ****.

ahamilt2
Jan 25, 2005, 07:03 PM
Maybe Apple didn't realize that people were going to react so badly to their high BTO prices, so they lowered them. Honestly, not everything is a conspiracy meticulously calculated to screw you over. Sorry if you did get screwed, but it's far from immoral or unethical; it's just price matching for a new product that has never been sold before.

thorshammer88
Jan 25, 2005, 07:22 PM
No time for capitalists? If it werent for capitalism and the free market economy we wouldnt be getting Macs or any consumer goods for that matter at the quality or price we get them at here in America. If you think you have it rough ask people from Europe what they pay for goods like computers. Did you feel that the Mac mini was a good deal when you bought it? If so are you just upset now that others are going to get it for cheaper than what you paid for it?

One more thing, if it were not for large corporations we wouldnt have things like appliances, computers, or cars.

The idea of the whole evil corporate America that is out to screw you and get everything they can out of you is almost comical and its shows you dont know what you are talking about.

Oh, and I love Wal-Mart

jsw
Jan 25, 2005, 07:47 PM
*** whap! ***

*** Whap!! ***

*** WHAP!!! ***

My attempt at the sound of a dead horse being beaten. Over and over and over....

;)

Sun Baked
Jan 25, 2005, 07:52 PM
*** whap! ***

*** Whap!! ***

*** WHAP!!! ***

My attempt at the sound of a dead horse being beaten. Over and over and over....

;)I tend to use a smiley...

http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6621&stc=1

jaw04005
Jan 25, 2005, 07:53 PM
Apple is REFUNDING the price difference between the original stated BTO options and today's updates. I ordered an original Mac mini that I just received Friday, and Apple gladly refunded my $29. What's the big deal? Is it the fact that you don't want to call, and deal with the hassle of a sales rep? If so, then e-mail them. It worked for me.

jaw04005
Jan 25, 2005, 07:56 PM
The price of my mini would still be the same 1.25, 512, airport, but I would have added the bluetooth for $20 and might have added the larger hard drive. So, Apple lost about $70 of revenue from me.

I think Apple is responding to the orders they have received to this point and are adjusting the product pricing based on orders. I'm sure they had estimates of what would sell, but actual orders will drive their pricing.


If you want to add bluetooth... you still can. Apparently, you can take your Mac mini into an authorized apple provider and they can add bluetooth after the fact. I know its not the same as getting it with it, but at least its still an option.

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 25, 2005, 08:02 PM
If you want to add bluetooth... you still can. Apparently, you can take your Mac mini into an authorized apple provider and they can add bluetooth after the fact. I know its not the same as getting it with it, but at least its still an option.

Maybe those that did the BTO and got delivered before todays announcement might be able to ask Apple to the upgrade for the difference.

solvs
Jan 25, 2005, 08:09 PM
that not what people are tick about. that bugs people it more apple droping the price so soon after the release. I would not be surpised if they neted them selves a several extra K after it all said and done by doing this since a vaste majority of people WILL not call in and get it changed. It does not take much to add it up.

I pretty sure apple did this on purpose. Drop the price right after they started shipping to get some extra money out of the majority of people who got the upgrades but did not know about the price change or dont want to bother going though with it.
So, in other words, you haven't read any of the other posts.

Seriously, I'm sure you're just going to call us all zealots, but think about it... Apple may actually lose money on this. People ordered without upgrading because it was too much. And most of those that did do BTO haven't even gotten their Minis yet, so there's no difference to them. But I'm sure Apple is going to go out of their way to screw a couple of early adopter out of $30-$100. I'm as paranoid as the next guy, but that's just reaching. Nobody complains when Dell changes their prices daily, and complains nonstop about Apple's outrageous pricing. So they do something about it proactively, before many (if any) people are affected, and you still complain.

I said it before, and I'll say it again... :rolleyes:

Maybe I missed it , but did you actually order/buy a Mac mini BEFORE the price drops?
He didn't even order a Mini, and probably has no intention of doing so. That's what makes this so funny. Somehow, I have a feeling very few people are upset about this. Even early adopters. And if they are, Apple will give you something pretty for your trouble.

(BTW, I use Tabs to respond to multiple messages... but that's just me, to each his own)

solvs
Jan 25, 2005, 08:11 PM
Apple is REFUNDING the price difference between the original stated BTO options and today's updates. I ordered an original Mac mini that I just received Friday, and Apple gladly refunded my $29. What's the big deal? Is it the fact that you don't want to call, and deal with the hassle of a sales rep? If so, then e-mail them. It worked for me.
He didn't actually order a Mini. There's no hassle, just complaining over a price drop. And adding fodder for the trolls.

Edit: saw this after my previous post. Guess I should take my own advice.

zelmo
Jan 26, 2005, 07:22 AM
I tend to use a smiley...

http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6621&stc=1

Not that I want to bump this thread, but THAT is the greatest smiley I have ever seen!