PDA

View Full Version : iMac G5 or PowerMac G5


Platform
Jan 27, 2005, 05:05 AM
What would be the best choise

iMac G5 17" 1.8 1GB RAM Superdrive

PowerMac G5 Single 1.8 1GB RAM Superdrive

They both have just about the same price
But the iMac has a 17" LCD and is a lot more compact so it will firt better on my desk (already have a PC in the computer "slot" but want a mac :D )
The PM has expandibility with 4 Ram slot's vs 2 and has 3 PCI slots and you can change the Graphic card as well as FW 800.

Will use iWork, iLife, Photoshop, intenet instant messaging and some more

But what computer the iMac G5 (17" 1.8) or the PowerMac G5 (single 1.8) :confused:

Blue Velvet
Jan 27, 2005, 05:08 AM
PowerMac... provided that

a) You can find the space and
b) you can afford to get a half-decent monitor (what's the point in spending that much only to hook it up to a crap 15" screen...)

You already know the advantages to having the PM...

Platform
Jan 27, 2005, 05:12 AM
PowerMac... provided that

a) You can find the space and
b) you can afford to get a half-decent monitor (what's the point in spending that much only to hook it up to a crap 15" screen...)

You already know the advantages to having the PM...


Thank you

But i allready have a 17" LCD with two ports VGA and DVI so if I were to use it I would have my PC on the VGA and the Mac on the DVI

Jo-Kun
Jan 27, 2005, 05:15 AM
depending on the use of photoshop (large files or not) the choice is simple.

So:
do you need PCI slots?
will you need screenspanning (dual monitor setup)?
is FireWire800 needed?
will you need to have more than 400GB storage inside the mac?
will you need more than 2GB of ram?

if you answer all of the above with No -> iMac G5
about screenspanning there is a hack, I don't know if it works on the iMac... so that is something to dany if you say yes tot hat one I guess.

I have 1,5GB of ram in my G5 but realised that I sometimes use very big files (1,2GB, 700MB...) and that 3GB would be ideal for me... but if you use files that are for instance max 300MB there schould be no problem.

Photoshop is multiprocessing enabled so if you are a die-hard user you might benefit from getting a dual processor, but you want the single 1,8.

So my answer would be: get the iMacG5 its a great machine and comes with a good screen (I would consider the 20" because I need some space in Photoshop -> Hence my Dual Screen setup...)

I hope this can help you a bit in the right direction...

J

Platform
Jan 27, 2005, 05:38 AM
depending on the use of photoshop (large files or not) the choice is simple.

So:
do you need PCI slots?
will you need screenspanning (dual monitor setup)?
is FireWire800 needed?
will you need to have more than 400GB storage inside the mac?
will you need more than 2GB of ram?

if you answer all of the above with No -> iMac G5
about screenspanning there is a hack, I don't know if it works on the iMac... so that is something to dany if you say yes tot hat one I guess.

I have 1,5GB of ram in my G5 but realised that I sometimes use very big files (1,2GB, 700MB...) and that 3GB would be ideal for me... but if you use files that are for instance max 300MB there schould be no problem.

Photoshop is multiprocessing enabled so if you are a die-hard user you might benefit from getting a dual processor, but you want the single 1,8.

So my answer would be: get the iMacG5 its a great machine and comes with a good screen (I would consider the 20" because I need some space in Photoshop -> Hence my Dual Screen setup...)

I hope this can help you a bit in the right direction...

J

Thank you

I have never really worked with big PS files, wanted the gig of Ram for a fast OS since i heard that it is memory hungry and that by adding more ram it will last longer into the future with new OS's and apps ;)

Have read about the screen spanning on the iMac G5 but it says that it works fully but then the guarentee is not valid anymore.

Will not need any more than 400GB (if so very unlikely can get an FW external drive) don't think that I will need more than 2GB RAM, tought that 1GB would be very good for my purposes and Tiger and other new apps.

Is FW 800 big or is USB going to go past it :confused: PCI not sure but i think that the iMac has enough plug's or is there anything for my uses that could require any addon's

Then is there problems with all-in once, and is the noise level high on either the iMac or the PM :confused:

How long will these machines last in terms of running the latest apps and OS X versions :confused:

_pb_boi
Jan 27, 2005, 05:43 AM
Heya,

I was facing the same choice as you; iMac 17in vs. Power Mac sp 1.8GHz.

Given I already have a Cinema Display, I realised the Power Mac was actually my only choice, but it's the machine I want for a lotta reasons, mainly expandibility. I wish now that I've sold my Powerbook that I didn't get that LaCie external firewire drive though - cudda put the money towards a bigger *internal* drive for the Power Mac.

Not to turn this thread into a 'When are updates gonna appear?' but I know I for one am waiting until Tiger is released before I buy the Power Mac. Not only will I 'save' the money needed for the new OS, because it'll be preinstalled, but because by then, I reckon the sp 1.8 baseline model will have moved to a 2GHz CPU. It's only a thought, but it does seem realistic. And of course, I need the time to save :o

Edit: I musta posted just after you. There's no reason why you shouldn't get a good few years out of either machine, imho.
Cheers,

andy.

TrenchMouth
Jan 27, 2005, 02:16 PM
i was looking into this as well. i am not going to be able to afford a G5 PowerMac right now, but i wanted to know how the iMac stacked up. I found that the iMac has some serious power hitches. I am not sure what leads up to it, but if you head over to bare feats.com there are some stats on it.

one that i noticed was here (http://www.barefeats.com/mini01.html)

i dont think it makes it a bad deal. i still like the iMac, but i think i will wait for a revision before picking one up. there are still certain tasks that a slower G4 can out pace it on, which is insane when you think about it.

anyone have some insight on what i am refering to here. is there something i am overlooking? i will post other test results if i find them.

so yeah, go with the PM

Sun Baked
Jan 27, 2005, 02:27 PM
i was looking into this as well. i am not going to be able to afford a G5 PowerMac right now, but i wanted to know how the iMac stacked up. I found that the iMac has some serious power hitches. I am not sure what leads up to it, but if you head over to bare feats.com there are some stats on it.The "new" PowerMac 1.8 is the same machine as the iMac G5 (design diagrams support this), and should get nearly identicle stats when equiped with the "base" GeForceFX 5200 graphics card.

Spend a nominal amount to upgrade the PowerMac to the Radeon 9600XT and it starts pulling ahead of the iMac G5.

http://www.barefeats.com/g518.html

The PowerMac 1.8 with GeForceFX 5200 isn't on all the charts, but it should be the same as the iMac G5 1.8

When you choose any other PowerMac, you get the XServe/PM chipset -- so there is a performance boost there as well.

diamond geezer
Jan 27, 2005, 04:32 PM
Go the PM G5.

Why? You can upgrade the video card at a later date to significantly expand the useful life of the machine.

ATI X800...YUM

asimov
Jan 27, 2005, 06:04 PM
When struggling with the same question a few months ago, I came across a Tidbits publication "Take control of buying a Mac".

Good advice is usually expensive but not in this case and when I finished working my way through the questionaries, I decided to go for the iMac.

Maybe you might just want to take a look at www.tibits.com

Good luck

Asimov

Platform
Jan 28, 2005, 03:42 AM
When struggling with the same question a few months ago, I came across a Tidbits publication "Take control of buying a Mac".

Good advice is usually expensive but not in this case and when I finished working my way through the questionaries, I decided to go for the iMac.

Maybe you might just want to take a look at www.tidbits.com

Good luck

Asimov

Thanks but they want money for it at tidbits.com :mad:

Platform
Jan 28, 2005, 03:47 AM
Go the PM G5.

Why? You can upgrade the video card at a later date to significantly expand the useful life of the machine.

ATI X800...YUM

If I don't do any other upgrades than the 1gig of RAM how long will a machine likek these last in terms of OS X and new apps :confused: (ofcourse i don't want it anymore when it is really slow) + Don't have the money to ugrade all the Graphics and the HDD

Blue Velvet
Jan 28, 2005, 03:55 AM
If I don't do any other upgrades than the 1gig of RAM how long will a machine likek these last in terms of OS X and new apps :confused: (ofcourse i don't want it anymore when it is really slow)


Your machine will remain usable for at least 5 years, probably longer.
There are many working Macs out there that are 6-7 years older albeit with some upgrades new hard-drive, etc.

It may not be able to run the latest games of 2010 but it still will be OK for lots of things... I wouldn't worry about it.

Platform
Jan 28, 2005, 04:00 AM
Your machine will remain usable for at least 5 years, probably longer.
There are many working Macs out there that are 6-7 years older albeit with some upgrades new hard-drive, etc.

It may not be able to run the latest games of 2010 but it still will be OK for lots of things... I wouldn't worry about it.

Thank you very much

And is there anything on the iMac G5 except the GPU that i cant upgrade/ contra the PM :confused:

HeWhoSpitsFire
Jan 28, 2005, 04:20 AM
Go with the PowerMac, my little old G4 867 is still kicking strong, and runs all my current apps great (Photoshop CS, Dreamweaver MX 04, and many more).

My main argument for the PM is expandibility. Gone through several minor overhauls of hardware over the years (drives, video card, etc...) and it's been worth every bit.

oingoboingo
Jan 28, 2005, 06:26 AM
Thank you very much

And is there anything on the iMac G5 except the GPU that i cant upgrade/ contra the PM :confused:

Anything that requires a PCI slot.

Apart from the PCI slots (and the AGP graphics card, as you mention...a very important potential upgrade), there is nothing that the PowerMac can have upgraded that the iMac G5 can't. The difference is that the PowerMac can have more of it, and invariably it's faster. Examples:

- Internal hard drives: PowerMac has 2 internal SATA bays, iMac has 1.
- RAM slots: PowerMac has 4 or 8, iMac has 2.
- Optical drive: PowerMac has industry standard 5.25" IDE optical drive bay which is easily replaced/upgraded with any commodity drive, iMac relies on more specialised, vertically mounted slot-loader. This may or may not be user-replaceable...not sure.

The PowerMac also has FireWire 800 and Gigabit ethernet. In general it's more expandable and more configurable in just about every respect. That's what you pay for...you're trading the 17" LCD screen and compact form factor for this extra future-proofing and expandability.

clearlynuts
Jan 28, 2005, 04:07 PM
- RAM slots: PowerMac has 4 or 8, iMac has 2.


I was in the same boat - iMac 20" vs. PM 1.8 vs. PM dual 1.8. I was at 98% PM dual 1.8, then I figured out that since PM RAM chips need to be paired and iMac doesn't, then PM effectively has 2 or 4 RAM slots. Still, probably go with PM dual 1.8.

asimov
Jan 28, 2005, 04:15 PM
I was in the same boat - iMac 20" vs. PM 1.8 vs. PM dual 1.8. I was at 98% PM dual 1.8, then I figured out that since PM RAM chips need to be paired and iMac doesn't, then PM effectively has 2 or 4 RAM slots. Still, probably go with PM dual 1.8.

Putting a Dual G5 in the comparison is like trying to find out the difference between taking the stairs or stepping into an elevator.

And talking about the paired RAM chips story. I suggest you take a look at what the people at www.barefeats.com can tell you about this theory.

Asimov

:D

Jo-Kun
Jan 28, 2005, 04:27 PM
about the Videocard (one topic a lot of people talk about whenever talking about mac...)

if you're just doing regular 2D applications (as I do and I run 2 screens on my 5200 card...) you will not really notice a difference with a faster card (or you must be in the market for apple's 30"... then you can't do without a heavy card) except when you want to use it for Gaming or 3D applications...

so thats one other thing to consider when choosing for the iMac or a PM... will I need fast 3D acceleration???

the statement of the paired ram -> that only applies to the 8 slot systems... the one with 4 slots like the single G5 don't need to have pairs, thats why the iMac G5 has two slots wich are not needed to have paired ram...

:edit:

Oops it seems I was wrong, indeed all PMG5 systems need paired ram so it seems... hmmz... sorry...

:edit:

J

mrgreen4242
Jan 28, 2005, 04:31 PM
I am in a similar situation, but I don't have a good monitor to use with a PM already (I've got a 19" CRT with some convergence issues). When you factor in even an inexpensive 17" LCD, the PM moves way out of the price range of an iMac. Hence, I'll be getting an iMac next month.

Since you have a nice display already, I would say that the the PM is goign to be a better choice for you. While the PM will take up more space UDNER your desk, considering that you already have a PC display ON your desk that you will use for both systems, you will save deskTOP space, which is more important, imo.

Regards,
Rob

Platform
Jan 29, 2005, 01:53 AM
about the Videocard (one topic a lot of people talk about whenever talking about mac...)

if you're just doing regular 2D applications (as I do and I run 2 screens on my 5200 card...) you will not really notice a difference with a faster card (or you must be in the market for apple's 30"... then you can't do without a heavy card) except when you want to use it for Gaming or 3D applications...

so thats one other thing to consider when choosing for the iMac or a PM... will I need fast 3D acceleration???

the statement of the paired ram -> that only applies to the 8 slot systems... the one with 4 slots like the single G5 don't need to have pairs, thats why the iMac G5 has two slots wich are not needed to have paired ram...

:edit:

Oops it seems I was wrong, indeed all PMG5 systems need paired ram so it seems... hmmz... sorry...

:edit:

J

Thank you

On my PC i have an GeForce FX 5200 (non Ultra) but with 128MB RAM, and that workes just fine on the games i have ;)

And for the Ram slots i tought of that, so the iMac has a bit of an advantage for upgrades and if I were to buy one it would be with a gig RAM and don't really think that I need more than a gig now or in the near future, or am I wrong :confused: (My PC has 512DDR 400 and works good so tought that a gig would be great :p )

Platform
Jan 29, 2005, 02:25 AM
The extra software that the iMac has is it of any good kind :confused: (Quicken 2004, WorldBook 2004, 2 games, AppleWorks) the PM does not have these.

Also wich one of these makes the most noise :confused:

HeWhoSpitsFire
Jan 29, 2005, 04:00 AM
The question is:

1: Do you need your comp to do your checkbook?

2: Do you study history? Serious or for fun?

3: Have you ever played Nanosaur?

The PM is still more worth it. iLife and iWork are only $79 a piece. But come preinstalled on new macs.

Platform
Jan 29, 2005, 05:47 AM
The question is:

1: Do you need your comp to do your checkbook?

2: Do you study history? Serious or for fun?

3: Have you ever played Nanosaur?

The PM is still more worth it. iLife and iWork are only $79 a piece. But come preinstalled on new macs.

Thanks

Wold be nice to have the software and I do study history.

Have not played nanosaur :p

iLife 04 comes pre-intalled on these not 05($20 ugrade)
And iWork does no come pre-installed on any machines as far as know

But does anyone know about the noise level of the machines :confused:

HeWhoSpitsFire
Jan 29, 2005, 06:41 AM
Without a doubt, the PM will make more noise. With that said, the G5 PM is a somewhat quiet machine, especially compared to my G4 with a Radeon 9800 Pro.

I would still suggest the G5 PM for longevity. It will server for years to come. As have many Macs before.

The Imac as form efficient as it is, as well as capable, doesn't provide the options a PM does. Expandibility is the key. As Tiger capable(not that the iMac is not) the PM offers many possibilities, as the iMac has some, but few.

Honestly, not a bad choice either way, but I would opt for the PM.

Platform
Jan 29, 2005, 07:38 AM
Without a doubt, the PM will make more noise. With that said, the G5 PM is a somewhat quiet machine, especially compared to my G4 with a Radeon 9800 Pro.

I would still suggest the G5 PM for longevity. It will server for years to come. As have many Macs before.

The Imac as form efficient as it is, as well as capable, doesn't provide the options a PM does. Expandibility is the key. As Tiger capable(not that the iMac is not) the PM offers many possibilities, as the iMac has some, but few.

Honestly, not a bad choice either way, but I would opt for the PM.

Thanks

I think I would like one that does not make a lot of noise (tierd of my PC's HDD noise and GPU, so maby then the iMac but then again as you said expandibility :o

Platform
Jan 29, 2005, 08:05 AM
For buying 3rd party RAM is there anywhere that they ship outside of the US :confused:

thorshammer88
Jan 29, 2005, 10:30 AM
I have had good experiences ordering memory from this place

http://omnitechnologies.biz/

I could be wrong but I believe they will ship international for 25$.

mrgreen4242
Jan 29, 2005, 10:37 AM
Thanks

Wold be nice to have the software and I do study history.

Have not played nanosaur :p

iLife 04 comes pre-intalled on these not 05($20 ugrade)
And iWork does no come pre-installed on any machines as far as know

But does anyone know about the noise level of the machines :confused:

You are correct on iWork, it doesn't come with any Macs. You SHOULD get a iLife '04 installed on any new Mac, but have included in the box a free disc to upgrade to iLive '05.

As far as noise, it's kind of hard to say. While the iMac is PROBABLY quieter overall, it is also right in front of your face, where the PM is going to be tucked away under a desk or somewhere further from your ears... so the iMac may be quieter when measured from a fixed distance, but could have a louder PERCIEVED volume since it's right in front of you all the time.

Rob

Little Endian
Jan 29, 2005, 12:04 PM
After having owned three imacs over the past 5 years I can speak with certainty that I would never buy them again. I now use a PowerMac and had I used one from the beggining I probably would have gone through just one over the past 4-5 years instead of going through three imacs. I now use a Dual 2.5Ghz G5 and this will last me 4-5 years for sure maybe even longer and in the meantime I get far superior performance over the imac G5 and have no desire for better. I know that had I purchased a top of the line 20" imac I would probably be itching for faster or better within 18 months or so and I probably would not keep the computer for longer than 2-3 years max. So either way I would spend about the same amount of money over 5-6 years except with the PowerMac I have greater speed and options for both today and tommorow.

Platform
Jan 30, 2005, 04:53 AM
You are correct on iWork, it doesn't come with any Macs. You SHOULD get a iLife '04 installed on any new Mac, but have included in the box a free disc to upgrade to iLive '05.

As far as noise, it's kind of hard to say. While the iMac is PROBABLY quieter overall, it is also right in front of your face, where the PM is going to be tucked away under a desk or somewhere further from your ears... so the iMac may be quieter when measured from a fixed distance, but could have a louder PERCIEVED volume since it's right in front of you all the time.

Rob

Thank you

I saw on apples web site that the up-to-date upgrade for iLife 05 is $19.95, but does it come in every new box that is shipped now just that you have to pay online to be able to use the programs on the disc :confused:

Platform
Jan 30, 2005, 04:58 AM
After having owned three imacs over the past 5 years I can speak with certainty that I would never buy them again. I now use a PowerMac and had I used one from the beggining I probably would have gone through just one over the past 4-5 years instead of going through three imacs. I now use a Dual 2.5Ghz G5 and this will last me 4-5 years for sure maybe even longer and in the meantime I get far superior performance over the imac G5 and have no desire for better. I know that had I purchased a top of the line 20" imac I would probably be itching for faster or better within 18 months or so and I probably would not keep the computer for longer than 2-3 years max. So either way I would spend about the same amount of money over 5-6 years except with the PowerMac I have greater speed and options for both today and tommorow.

Would also like the Dual 2.5Ghz but don't have that kind of money :(
You are saying that the PM is better because of the expandibility or :confused:

The software that comes with the PM is that any good :confused:

Platform
Jan 30, 2005, 05:00 AM
I have had good experiences ordering memory from this place

http://omnitechnologies.biz/

I could be wrong but I believe they will ship international for 25$.

Thanks but the prices are $20-30 more than at Crucial etc. :mad:

Little Endian
Jan 30, 2005, 08:43 AM
Would also like the Dual 2.5Ghz but don't have that kind of money :(
You are saying that the PM is better because of the expandibility or :confused:

The software that comes with the PM is that any good :confused:

I'm speaking solely from a Hardware perspective. The software is exactly the same minus the Encyclopedia and a couple of Games. I would not have played Anyway and my 2003 Encyclopedia is still fucntional so I use that. The software bundle differences are negligible as the PowerMac comes with some software like Quickbooks 6, OmniGraffle, and Omniweb which are not included with the imac.

If you really want an imac though I suggest you wait another 3-6 months as the next revision should be much better.

thorshammer88
Jan 30, 2005, 03:49 PM
platform, I would suggest being careful where you buy your memory from. Shopping by price alone is probably not a good idea. Make sure that the company you buy from is reputable and will be there if you ever have any problems. Often times you get what you pay for in terms of service. If you by chance get a bad stick you may be SOL when you try and return it to them. With that being said, I have no experience with the company you mentioned above, so I cannot say whether they are reputable or not. I'm Just trying to let you know from experience that doing a little research on the company you buy from rather than shopping soley by price can save you a lot of frustration down the road.

Platform
Jan 31, 2005, 05:38 AM
platform, I would suggest being careful where you buy your memory from. Shopping by price alone is probably not a good idea. Make sure that the company you buy from is reputable and will be there if you ever have any problems. Often times you get what you pay for in terms of service. If you by chance get a bad stick you may be SOL when you try and return it to them. With that being said, I have no experience with the company you mentioned above, so I cannot say whether they are reputable or not. I'm Just trying to let you know from experience that doing a little research on the company you buy from rather than shopping soley by price can save you a lot of frustration down the road.

Thanks

it was just that i have gotten good advice and recomendations to buy from crucial before

mrgreen4242
Jan 31, 2005, 09:26 AM
After having owned three imacs over the past 5 years I can speak with certainty that I would never buy them again. I now use a PowerMac and had I used one from the beggining I probably would have gone through just one over the past 4-5 years instead of going through three imacs. I now use a Dual 2.5Ghz G5 and this will last me 4-5 years for sure maybe even longer and in the meantime I get far superior performance over the imac G5 and have no desire for better. I know that had I purchased a top of the line 20" imac I would probably be itching for faster or better within 18 months or so and I probably would not keep the computer for longer than 2-3 years max. So either way I would spend about the same amount of money over 5-6 years except with the PowerMac I have greater speed and options for both today and tommorow.

Well some people are like that. There are people who have DP 2.5ghz machine now and when the 3ghz comes out they are going to want that, too. And lots of them will get it. On the other hand, there are people with the original flat screen iMacs still, and use them every day for what they need, who don't have any strong urge to update.

Something else to think about with "over buying" to future proof yourself...

A new 2.5ghz DP machine is $3000. Tack on $750 for display (that's a low estimate based on a Dell 20" widescreen), which could easily go up to $2000 if you went Apple brand stuff. But we will stick at $3750. Bump it up to $4000 for some more RAM and some software.

Ok, so that machine, as you state, probably good for 5 years, with some small updates here and there (more RAM, HDs, GPU, OS, etc).

On the other side of that is the 20" iMac. Perfectly capable for what you want to do with it now. $1900 + 250 for some RAM and software at time of purchase (same as we added for the PM). $2150 total, good for 2-3 years. For the sake of argument, lets aim low and say you want to upgrade in 2 years.

Apples price structure generally keeps products at the same cost, but they get faster and more feature full. So in 2 years it's safe to say that there will be a a $2000 machine that will do what you want without to much issue. Even if you just buy that machine outright you will still be at the cost of having just the PM, but if you don't need two computers you can always sell the old one. In two years a 20" iMac, in my guess, will still fetch $1200, but we will aim low again, and say you sell it for $1000.

So you're new iMac and it's 2 year lifespan cost you $1000. You're up to $3000 total for 4 years of usable machine. Still $1000 less than the PM. You pay a price to get the cutting edge equipment now, but if upgrade frequently to the current "midrange" you can save a lot fo money, as long as you are not conerned about having the latest and greatest.

That said, the PM still tempts me, too. I like to game a little bit, so upgrable video cards are definately tempting. I can always add external HDs for just a little more than an internal one (160gbs of storage is $100 vs. $130 for internal/external... not a HUGE deal, and you get the added portability). 2gbs of RAM is probably all I will need, before my next upgrade comes along anyways.

Also, as my only reason for wanting to upgrade the GPU is gaming, I can build a capable, and suprisingly small (not mini of course, but microATX is not bad sizewise) PC, complete with KVM, for about $100 more than a high end video card for a PM would cost.

Sorry I went so long on this... btw, crucial, from all accounts is a good place to get Mac memory. You can buy Crucial brand RAM from newegg.com for less than at Crucial, but I am not sure about their international shipping policies.

Rob

Platform
Feb 1, 2005, 06:08 AM
Well some people are like that. There are people who have DP 2.5ghz machine now and when the 3ghz comes out they are going to want that, too. And lots of them will get it. On the other hand, there are people with the original flat screen iMacs still, and use them every day for what they need, who don't have any strong urge to update.

Something else to think about with "over buying" to future proof yourself...

A new 2.5ghz DP machine is $3000. Tack on $750 for display (that's a low estimate based on a Dell 20" widescreen), which could easily go up to $2000 if you went Apple brand stuff. But we will stick at $3750. Bump it up to $4000 for some more RAM and some software.

Ok, so that machine, as you state, probably good for 5 years, with some small updates here and there (more RAM, HDs, GPU, OS, etc).

On the other side of that is the 20" iMac. Perfectly capable for what you want to do with it now. $1900 + 250 for some RAM and software at time of purchase (same as we added for the PM). $2150 total, good for 2-3 years. For the sake of argument, lets aim low and say you want to upgrade in 2 years.

Apples price structure generally keeps products at the same cost, but they get faster and more feature full. So in 2 years it's safe to say that there will be a a $2000 machine that will do what you want without to much issue. Even if you just buy that machine outright you will still be at the cost of having just the PM, but if you don't need two computers you can always sell the old one. In two years a 20" iMac, in my guess, will still fetch $1200, but we will aim low again, and say you sell it for $1000.

So you're new iMac and it's 2 year lifespan cost you $1000. You're up to $3000 total for 4 years of usable machine. Still $1000 less than the PM. You pay a price to get the cutting edge equipment now, but if upgrade frequently to the current "midrange" you can save a lot fo money, as long as you are not conerned about having the latest and greatest.

That said, the PM still tempts me, too. I like to game a little bit, so upgrable video cards are definately tempting. I can always add external HDs for just a little more than an internal one (160gbs of storage is $100 vs. $130 for internal/external... not a HUGE deal, and you get the added portability). 2gbs of RAM is probably all I will need, before my next upgrade comes along anyways.

Also, as my only reason for wanting to upgrade the GPU is gaming, I can build a capable, and suprisingly small (not mini of course, but microATX is not bad sizewise) PC, complete with KVM, for about $100 more than a high end video card for a PM would cost.

Sorry I went so long on this... btw, crucial, from all accounts is a good place to get Mac memory. You can buy Crucial brand RAM from newegg.com for less than at Crucial, but I am not sure about their international shipping policies.

Rob


Thank you

Now since the PB has got the 512 MB Ram standard and iLife 05
When will the iMac and the PM get the same 512 MB and iLife 05+ and speed bumb, should not take too long or :confused: (at least the PM)

Little Endian
Feb 1, 2005, 06:44 AM
Well some people are like that. There are people who have DP 2.5ghz machine now and when the 3ghz comes out they are going to want that, too. And lots of them will get it. On the other hand, there are people with the original flat screen iMacs still, and use them every day for what they need, who don't have any strong urge to update.

Something else to think about with "over buying" to future proof yourself...

A new 2.5ghz DP machine is $3000. Tack on $750 for display (that's a low estimate based on a Dell 20" widescreen), which could easily go up to $2000 if you went Apple brand stuff. But we will stick at $3750. Bump it up to $4000 for some more RAM and some software.

Ok, so that machine, as you state, probably good for 5 years, with some small updates here and there (more RAM, HDs, GPU, OS, etc).

On the other side of that is the 20" iMac. Perfectly capable for what you want to do with it now. $1900 + 250 for some RAM and software at time of purchase (same as we added for the PM). $2150 total, good for 2-3 years. For the sake of argument, lets aim low and say you want to upgrade in 2 years.

Apples price structure generally keeps products at the same cost, but they get faster and more feature full. So in 2 years it's safe to say that there will be a a $2000 machine that will do what you want without to much issue. Even if you just buy that machine outright you will still be at the cost of having just the PM, but if you don't need two computers you can always sell the old one. In two years a 20" iMac, in my guess, will still fetch $1200, but we will aim low again, and say you sell it for $1000.

So you're new iMac and it's 2 year lifespan cost you $1000. You're up to $3000 total for 4 years of usable machine. Still $1000 less than the PM. You pay a price to get the cutting edge equipment now, but if upgrade frequently to the current "midrange" you can save a lot fo money, as long as you are not conerned about having the latest and greatest.

That said, the PM still tempts me, too. I like to game a little bit, so upgrable video cards are definately tempting. I can always add external HDs for just a little more than an internal one (160gbs of storage is $100 vs. $130 for internal/external... not a HUGE deal, and you get the added portability). 2gbs of RAM is probably all I will need, before my next upgrade comes along anyways.

Also, as my only reason for wanting to upgrade the GPU is gaming, I can build a capable, and suprisingly small (not mini of course, but microATX is not bad sizewise) PC, complete with KVM, for about $100 more than a high end video card for a PM would cost.

Sorry I went so long on this... btw, crucial, from all accounts is a good place to get Mac memory. You can buy Crucial brand RAM from newegg.com for less than at Crucial, but I am not sure about their international shipping policies.

Rob

All very Good points and they are all true for the most part. What you fail to calculate though is that the PowerMac compared to the imac would still be at least twice as fast in almost all aspects in the meantime before one upgrades to a new imac. In some cases the PowerMac would be as much as 5-6 times faster than todays top of the line imac especially when doing tasks that rely heavily on the Video card. I also would not be to surprised if the imac of 2-3 years from now is still slower than a dual 2.5Ghz PowerMac so really over the next 4-5 years one would have a slower machine despite going through two imacs in comparison to one PowerMac.

Let's look at 2 years ago:

In Jan. 2003 the top of the line PowerMac was the Dual 1.42Ghz G4 for $2699+$999 for the 17" ACD= $3699 Today this Machine in stock configuration with monitor would still be worth about $1800

In early 2003 the top of the line imac was the 1Ghz G4 17" for $1799
today it is valued at about $800-$1000 and since it's two years later one spends another $1899 for the 20" imac of today that equals about $3000 spent.

The Dual 1.42Ghz G4 is still a keeper as it still outperforms the 1.8Ghz imac in many tasks especially when taking MP aware Apps and Multitasking situations. Faster video card options that can clobber a 5200Ultra, Easy Raid Options, Faster Optical Drive options, PCI expansion etc.

So basically with the imac 1Ghz option one would have saved $1000 but would have had a much slower machine for the first 2 years and even the next two years would still be slower or at least somewhat equal with a replacement imac G5 in comparison to one PowerMac

As For me I would much rather have Internal Drive bay options as external defeats the purpose of All in one and a drive Connected via SATA is still faster than external FW solutions and better for RAID applications it's cheaper too, though not much. What is alot cheaper is the optical Drive upgradability because Slot load 8X DVD-R drives cost about $175 right now however a standard size 16X DVD-R costs only $65. In my case I also use PCI as I do Audio and need to use a PCI card as Mbox just does not cut it for me anymore. I also have a TV-Tuner PCI card which is much cheaper than TV options for imac. I also in the hear and now can easily find use for 1.5GB of ram and at least I still have lots and lots of room for more which I will need. Maxing out RAM is cheaper in the Power Mac as you can use smaller Cheaper modules to get to your memory needs. Lastly I need a fast Video Card as I also Love my games and I do fiddle with Motion as well and the GPU will only become more important with Tiger and the Geforce 5200Ultra is just a joke for games not to mention motion and it allready is the bare minimum for Tiger.

My Dual 2.5GHz G5 with 1.5GB of RAM, Geforce 6800GT and 20" ACD only cost me $3800 tax and shipping inlcuded as well as Crucial Ram Uprade. I got it with the Developer discount while a 20" imac with RAM upped to 1.5GB would have costed me about $2100 tax included with Developer Discount. In my case it made sense to get the Power Mac as it really is 2-4 times faster in all scenarios and with Gaming it is litterally 4-5 times faster in most games and I can play Games not even worth playing on an imac. So I spent less than twice as much but I get a machine that is really about 3 times faster overall and is much more future proof than the 1.8Ghz G5 imac.

Platform
Feb 1, 2005, 07:02 AM
All very Good points and they are all true for the most part. What you fail to calculate though is that the PowerMac compared to the imac would still be at least twice as fast in almost all aspects in the meantime before one upgrades to a new imac. In some cases the PowerMac would be as much as 5-6 times faster than todays top of the line imac especially when doing tasks that rely heavily on the Video card. I also would not be to surprised if the imac of 2-3 years from now is still slower than a dual 2.5Ghz PowerMac so really over the next 4-5 years one would have a slower machine despite going through two imacs in comparison to one PowerMac.

Let's look at 2 years ago:

In Jan. 2003 the top of the line PowerMac was the Dual 1.42Ghz G4 for $2699+$999 for the 17" ACD= $3699 Today this Machine in stock configuration with monitor would still be worth about $1800

In early 2003 the top of the line imac was the 1Ghz G4 17" for $1799
today it is valued at about $800-$1000 and since it's two years later one spends another $1899 for the 20" imac of today that equals about $3000 spent.

The Dual 1.42Ghz G4 is still a keeper as it still outperforms the 1.8Ghz imac in many tasks especially when taking MP aware Apps and Multitasking situations. Faster video card options that can clobber a 5200Ultra, Easy Raid Options, Faster Optical Drive options, PCI expansion etc.

So basically with the imac 1Ghz option one would have saved $1000 but would have had a much slower machine for the first 2 years and even the next two years would still be slower or at least somewhat equal with a replacement imac G5 in comparison to one PowerMac

As For me I would much rather have Internal Drive bay options as external defeats the purpose of All in one and a drive Connected via SATA is still faster than external FW solutions and better for RAID applications it's cheaper too, though not much. What is alot cheaper is the optical Drive upgradability because Slot load 8X DVD-R drives cost about $175 right now however a standard size 16X DVD-R costs only $65. In my case I also use PCI as I do Audio and need to use a PCI card as Mbox just does not cut it for me anymore. I also have a TV-Tuner PCI card which is much cheaper than TV options for imac. I also in the hear and now can easily find use for 1.5GB of ram and at least I still have lots and lots of room for more which I will need. Maxing out RAM is cheaper in the Power Mac as you can use smaller Cheaper modules to get to your memory needs. Lastly I need a fast Video Card as I also Love my games and I do fiddle with Motion as well and the GPU will only become more important with Tiger and the Geforce 5200Ultra is just a joke for games not to mention motion and it allready is the bare minimum for Tiger.

My Dual 2.5GHz G5 with 1.5GB of RAM, Geforce 6800GT and 20" ACD only cost me $3800 tax and shipping inlcuded as well as Crucial Ram Uprade. I got it with the Developer discount while a 20" imac with RAM upped to 1.5GB would have costed me about $2100 tax included with Developer Discount. In my case it made sense to get the Power Mac as it really is 2-4 times faster in all scenarios and with Gaming it is litterally 4-5 times faster in most games and I can play Games not even worth playing on an imac. So I spent less than twice as much but I get a machine that is really about 3 times faster overall and is much more future proof than the 1.8Ghz G5 imac.

Ok thanks but what about the SP 1.8 :confused:

Little Endian
Feb 2, 2005, 12:10 PM
Ok thanks but what about the SP 1.8 :confused:

You can find the SP 1.8 for as low as $1299 refurbished and can get a 20" ACD for $899 EDU pricing or Refurb pricing and or you could buy a much cheaper LCD frome someone else like the $700 Dell 2005FPW or even get a 19" display for under $500. You could get a a single 1.8Ghz G5 with a Display for well under $2000 which would be about as much as an imac 20"

Even the SP 1.8 would be a much better ivestment than imac as you get twice the memory capacity and you can expand it for less. If you buy the original SP 1.8 it also comes with a faster FSB, 4X memory capacity 8GB max and a Radeon 9600 which is faster than the Geforce 5200 Ultra used in the imacs. The newer SP 1.8 has the advantage of a faster Superdrive as well. Remember Graphics cards make a huge difference in performance depeding on what you are doing and today's top of the line cards can litteraly offer 6X the performance in real world situations over the 5200Ultra. With PowerMac at least you have the option of adding a much better video card.

Another Option worth exploring is gettin a Dual 1.8 which can be had for $1699 Refurb, $1799EDU, or as low as $1500 Developer Discount. Even at $1799 and with an $899 20"ACD it would be only $2700 or less than $1000 more over top of line imac. If you cut the cost of the display and settle for a cheaper one you can get a nice Dual 1.8 rig for only about $500 more than imac G5 20"

In case you don't or can't qualify for EDU or DEV pricing there is always Apple Refurbished which is like new as it still comes with 1 year warranty and one can still add Applecare if desired.

Platform
Feb 3, 2005, 03:49 AM
You can find the SP 1.8 for as low as $1299 refurbished and can get a 20" ACD for $899 EDU pricing or Refurb pricing and or you could buy a much cheaper LCD frome someone else like the $700 Dell 2005FPW or even get a 19" display for under $500. You could get a a single 1.8Ghz G5 with a Display for well under $2000 which would be about as much as an imac 20"

Even the SP 1.8 would be a much better ivestment than imac as you get twice the memory capacity and you can expand it for less. If you buy the original SP 1.8 it also comes with a faster FSB, 4X memory capacity 8GB max and a Radeon 9600 which is faster than the Geforce 5200 Ultra used in the imacs. The newer SP 1.8 has the advantage of a faster Superdrive as well. Remember Graphics cards make a huge difference in performance depeding on what you are doing and today's top of the line cards can litteraly offer 6X the performance in real world situations over the 5200Ultra. With PowerMac at least you have the option of adding a much better video card.

Another Option worth exploring is gettin a Dual 1.8 which can be had for $1699 Refurb, $1799EDU, or as low as $1500 Developer Discount. Even at $1799 and with an $899 20"ACD it would be only $2700 or less than $1000 more over top of line imac. If you cut the cost of the display and settle for a cheaper one you can get a nice Dual 1.8 rig for only about $500 more than imac G5 20"

In case you don't or can't qualify for EDU or DEV pricing there is always Apple Refurbished which is like new as it still comes with 1 year warranty and one can still add Applecare if desired.

Thank you very much

Does anyone know about PM updates since the PB update :confused:

Platform
Feb 19, 2005, 06:46 AM
How does the SP 1.8 PM compare to the Rev D PB's 15" and 17" :confused:

Eastend
Feb 19, 2005, 07:38 AM
How does the SP 1.8 PM compare to the Rev D PB's 15" and 17" :confused:

Search it on the net for yourself. From memory only, the high end 17" PowerBook scored a 142 or so benchmark, the high end iMac is close to about 160 I think, so the SP 1.8 PM should not be much different than a high end iMac.

Brian

Platform
Feb 19, 2005, 11:54 PM
Search it on the net for yourself. From memory only, the high end 17" PowerBook scored a 142 or so benchmark, the high end iMac is close to about 160 I think, so the SP 1.8 PM should not be much different than a high end iMac.

Brian

OK thank you.
But the reason for the difference is it in the FSB or is it because they are a G4 and a G5