WalMart To Sell iPod Shuffle?

[MacRumors]

According to Apple Insider (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=860), Apple has entered into a partnership with WalMart to distribute the iPod Shuffle in possible all of their nearly 5000 retail stores.
a Wal-Mart feature calls for at least 50 units -- in this case 25+ of each shuffle model -- per hometown store, while metro area locations would require significantly larger quantities of the product.

Figuring conservatively, with 5000 stores each receiving approximately 50 units, the feature alone would demand a quarter million shuffles. "That of course is in addition to regular sell through, and is a very conservative number," sources added.

[maya]

Hope this deal makes its way North to Canada, I have checked some of the local Electronic stores that carry Apple products and no sign of the Shuffle. :(

[Some_Big_Spoon]

Need I even mention that Walmart's music store doesn't support the iPod, or rather they use WMA? Funny how all these folks want a piece of the pie, but don't have the guts to take a stand against M$. Can't have it both ways kids.

[speleoterra]

What does that say about WalMarts online musicstore then?
They are just seeing it as a commodity I suppose.

As for Canada, (that's the country above you stateside Americans by the way) if you pre-ordered one, three weeks from today. If you are expecting to walk into anystore and see one on the shelf somewhere's with Apple products/local dealer then the wait will be 4 weeks from today.

[maya]

Need I even mention that Walmart's music store doesn't support the iPod, or rather they use WMA? Funny how all these folks want a piece of the pie, but don't have the guts to take a stand against M$. Can't have it both ways kids.

Though I see your point, Wal-Mart does carry OTHER flash players. :rolleyes:

Yeah not as good, however its a great introduction point for Apple. Just because someone shops at Wal-Mart doesn't mean they buy EVERYTHING from there. :rolleyes: :)

[mkrishnan]

Need I even mention that Walmart's music store doesn't support the iPod, or rather they use WMA? Funny how all these folks want a piece of the pie, but don't have the guts to take a stand against M$. Can't have it both ways kids.

It's not exactly like Apple is selling licenses for Fairplay to other online music stores who want iPod compatibility....

[Santaduck]

I wonder if Walmart would be allowed even a modest discount on their pricing. That would be very typical of Walmart, but singularly unbelievable for Apple.

[billystlyes]

Next 7-11! JK Why not if it helps Apple.

[sjpetry]

I wonder if this will help sell Shuffles? :p :cool:

[maya]

Next 7-11! JK Why not if it helps Apple.

For this to happen Apple will release a new product called the iPop, you take the iPod name and flip with rotate the "d" in iPod and you have this. :)


iPop is a new flavour candy that looks like the Shuffle only edible and cost 99 cents. ;) :)

[Xtremehkr]

Wal Mart is slimey, I hope it doesn't stick. Good move though, despite how I feel about Wal Mart. The Shuffle is a bargain and Wal Mart is King of distribution. Maybe Apple can be a positive influence on Wal Mart. At the very least it exposes a lot of people to a better computer with a superior OS, assuming consumers are content with their iPod Shuffle and start looking at other Apple products. The Mini Mac comes to mind, it's price level is close to the Unix machine they offer but is so much easier to use. Wal Mart would have no problems supplying cheap peripherals either.

[narco]

A deal with the devil. Everyone knows you can't buy anything "cool" at Walmart. I don't think this is good news.

Fishes,
narco.

[maya]

I wonder if this will help sell Shuffles? :p :cool:

If it does great, if it doesn't Apple still gets advertising. ;) :)

[dombi]

As much as I don't like Walmart, I think this could really boost the iPod shuffle sales (not that they really need that :-) ). I really need to find me one somewhere...

[you]

I wonder if songs on the walmart music store will be compatable :eek:

[el greenerino]

Lets hope this is the only thing Apple ever sells in Wal*Mart.

If it's going to be the same price as everywhere else, why go to Wal*Mart to get one?

The only reason I can see is to save time if you're there to get 89¢ on a can of Pringles and to walk out with gum on the bottom of your shoes.

[dguisinger]

As an FYI, MacMall has a backorder on the Shuffle 512MB of around 1200 units; I didn't ask how far backordered they are on the 1GB. Apple is doing quite well on their 3rd party orders.

[Arcady]

Now you can buy an iPod and help destroy America's economy at the same time! :o

[adam1185]

What does that say about WalMarts online musicstore then?
They are just seeing it as a commodity I suppose.

As for Canada, (that's the country above you stateside Americans by the way) if you pre-ordered one, three weeks from today. If you are expecting to walk into anystore and see one on the shelf somewhere's with Apple products/local dealer then the wait will be 4 weeks from today.

I'm in Canada and ordered my 1gb shuffle when it was announced. It should get here by Tuesday with standard shipping. It's no wonder they arent' available in any stores yet, apple can't even supply them in their own stores. They should be at futureshop and best buy here soon it seems. Their websites slate the release for Feb. 11th I believe.

[i_am_a_cow]

Walmart put Rubbermaid out of business!!! They are assholes and will try to drive Apple to cheap labor. :mad:

[AndreMA]

I'm not at all fond of Wal*Mart, but I can see a benefit (beyond simply getting the product into wider distribution) in helping to dispel the "Apple = Expensive" mindset.

[SiliconAddict]

Sold their soul to the Devil Apple did. Normally I’m not ravenously opposed to any one company on principle but Walmart is actually worse then Microsoft in terms of their business practices and how they treat their employees.
Normally I would be pro any choice Apple makes but I think this is a mistake. Best Buy, fine. Target, fine. CompUSA, fine. Circuit City, fine. Walmart. Not so fine.

[VicMacs]

the more it's "out there" the better

apple can use the publicity, everybody goes to WM

now they should call it iMart, or WalPod

hehe

go Apple , sell those babies!!!!!

[billystlyes]

I wonder if songs on the walmart music store will be compatable :eek:

HE HE HE. Now that would be news!

[Brandon Sharitt]

So people who can't afford an iPod settle for going to Wal-Mart to get some cheap flash based player. If they see something with the name iPod on it they'd probably be more likely to buy it so they look cool.

[leftbanke7]

Sounds like I have a full day tomorrow:
Go to Walmart, buy bread, cheese, socks, a new TV, an iPod Shuffle, a bike, a Veggie Tails video, tulip bulbs, a bean bag chair, get an oil change for my car, eat at the in store McDonalds and help smuggle in a few more illegal immigrants so they can make a few bucks cleaning out the toilet stall after some 350 lb woman got so upset that Walmart ran out of family sized Cheetos she messed herself.

God Bless Walmart!!!

[xsnightclub]

FYI for those who are mindlessly ranting about the evils of Wal-Mart selling Apple products and how it will destroy the brand reputaion, In the late 90's Wal*Mart did sell Apple Computers in there electronics department and even carried a seperate Mac Software section.

And anyone who thinks it is better to buy anything at Best Buy rather than Wal-Mart or any other big box retailer for that matter, needs to do some serious research on how close the business practices of ALL these major retailers are. The main and most important difference is if you buy your iPod shuffle at Best Buy without an extended warranty plan and it stops working you are S.O.L., you will NEVER see your money back.

Gotta love the Wal-Mart return policy.
(Save your Wal-Mart return policy horror stories for the the fiction section of Mac Rumors, if they don't give you your money back with a smile than you have abused the system.)

[quackattack]

BAD MOVE APPLE!! :mad: :( Wal-Mart is an evil, evil company. Sure they will get you volume, but now they own your soul. They will put more price pressure on you than you can beleive.

Which means cheaper products, less quality. This better not lead to more deals. I really thought Apple was above this. I am so disappointed.

[xsnightclub]

BAD MOVE APPLE!! :mad: :( Wal-Mart is an evil, evil company. Sure they will get you volume, but now they own your soul. They will put more price pressure on you than you can beleive.

Which means cheaper products, less quality. This better not lead to more deals. I really thought Apple was above this. I am so disappointed.

Yeah, because Wal-Mart selling Apple computers in the 90's really forced Apple to lower their prices.

[narco]

FYI for those who are mindlessly ranting about the evils of Wal-Mart selling Apple products and how it will destroy the brand reputaion, In the late 90's Wal*Mart did sell Apple Computers in there electronics department and even carried a seperate Mac Software section.

And anyone who thinks it is better to buy anything at Best Buy rather than Wal-Mart or any other big box retailer for that matter, needs to do some serious research on how close the business practices of ALL these major retailers are. The main and most important difference is if you buy your iPod shuffle at Best Buy without an extended warranty plan and it stops working you are S.O.L., you will NEVER see your money back.

Gotta love the Wal-Mart return policy.
(Save your Wal-Mart return policy horror stories for the the fiction section of Mac Rumors, if they don't give you your money back with a smile than you have abused the system.)

Yeah, but Best Buy? Target? Only one of each in my city, but we somehow have 4 Walmarts, not including 2 Sam's Club stores. They may have the same business practices, but I don't see Best Buy destroying the local economy.

Fishes,
narco.

[xsnightclub]

Yeah, but Best Buy? Target? Only one of each in my city, but we somehow have 4 Walmarts, not including 2 Sam's Club stores. They may have the same business practices, but I don't see Best Buy destroying the local economy.

Fishes,
narco.

Thats odd, Green Bay has 2 Wal-Marts,1 sams club, 2 targets, 2 Kmarts, 2 Home Depots, 3 Shopkos, 2 kohls, 1 best buy, 1 circuit city, 2 menards, and numerous other big box grocery stores. Your example has no logic that any store is destroying your local economy.

But if it puts the availability for people to buy an iPod shuffle that have walmarts nearby that don't have Apple stores or best buys, all the better for Apple and us Apple users.

[inkswamp]

Next 7-11! JK Why not if it helps Apple.

Did you forget the conest where cups at 7-11 had iTunes free codes on them?

[Aldaris]

IMHO, Walley-World or Wal-Mart, Sells inferior products, at least thats the mindset... whether you buy something at Wal-Mart, and save a few, I'd much rather give Best-Buy, Ultimate Electronics, or heaven forbid CompUSA (Mac User Hell imo) at least then I feel like i'm giving my money to people who've earned it not some faceless corporation like Wal-Mart... if Wal-Mart sells I won't buy... (iPod Shuffle not switch to PC)...

Wal-Mart=Cheap (and onry)

Apple=High Quality products for reasonable price (for me at least)

-Aldaris

[Rod Rod]

Walmart put Rubbermaid out of business!!! They are assholes and will try to drive Apple to cheap labor. :mad:

Apple is already using cheap labor, so what's your point?

[Kagetenshi]

Sold their soul to the Devil Apple did. Normally I’m not ravenously opposed to any one company on principle but Walmart is actually worse then Microsoft in terms of their business practices and how they treat their employees.
Normally I would be pro any choice Apple makes but I think this is a mistake. Best Buy, fine. Target, fine. CompUSA, fine. Circuit City, fine. Walmart. Not so fine.

I don't think this is as horrible as it's being made out to be, but I agree with regard to Waldo World Arena. To put things in perspective (and bring some emotionally-laced hyperbole into it!) if Microsoft is the Beltway Sniper, Wal*Mart is Jeffrey Dahmer.

~J

[xsnightclub]

I don't think this is as horrible as it's being made out to be, but I agree with regard to Waldo World Arena. To put things in perspective (and bring some emotionally-laced hyperbole into it!) if Microsoft is the Beltway Sniper, Wal*Mart is Jeffrey Dahmer.

~J

So you are then implying that Wal-Mart has discriminating tastes towards young ethnic men?

Maybe a better analogy would be to compare wal-mart to Timothy McVeigh

either way, odd and disturbing analogy.

But hey, as long as it introduces more people, who do not have access, to the wonderful world of Apple products, the better

[Sun Baked]

Perfect way to get rid of the "Apple is Evil" talk a short while ago everyone was doing because of the ThinkSecret lawsuit.

Now Apple is hiding behind a really big evil corporation, now they are suddenly angels. :p

[SiliconAddict]

close the business practices of ALL these major retailers are.

Are you just dense or just ill informed? Walmart is one of the most sued companies in recent American history and there IS a reason. Just do a google search on Walmart and sucks. Do a little research before comparing Walmart’s business practices to everyone else’s. In my case I know from a couple people who have worked at Walmart and seen their business practices first had from a managerial perspective. They actively do crap such as go out of their way to hire non-union, screw their employees over with benefits, dink around with zoning, actively try and coerce city councils to give them leeway (In the case I’m thinking about its in regards to zoning.) and that is just off the top of my head.
They are the scum bags of the retail industry.

[xsnightclub]

Are you just dense or just ill informed? Walmart is one of the most sued companies in recent American history and there IS a reason. Just do a google search on Walmart and sucks. Do a little research before comparing Walmart’s business practices to everyone else’s. In my case I know from a couple people who have worked at Walmart and seen their business practices first had from a managerial perspective. They actively do crap such as go out of their way to hire non-union, screw their employees over with benefits, dink around with zoning, actively try and coerce city councils to give them leeway (In the case I’m thinking about its in regards to zoning.) and that is just off the top of my head.
They are the scum bags of the retail industry.

And are you dense or just plain ill informed to think that the other big box retailers don't do this stuff also. BTW do a google search on target and sucks, best buy and sucks etc... And also the likely hood of being sued has more to do with how deep your pockets are and how high profile your company is than with actually doing anything wrong. Not that I am saying they don't do anything wrong, they do along with the rest of corporate America. And while you are blasting walmart for hiring non-union and trying for tax breaks and incentives, take a close look at where our precious Apple products are made, Dolt.

[millypede]

According to Apple Insider (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=860), Apple has entered into a partnership with WalMart to distribute the iPod Shuffle in possible all of their nearly 5000 retail stores.

and???

Its not exactly that good, I mean surley over there you guys get most iPods and Mac products in other Electrical Outlets??

Or is WalMart the only one? I may be wrong?

[Agathon]

Wal Mart?

I guess this means the end of Apple as an aspirational brand. ;)

[Lacero]

Apple most likely gave Wal-Mart preferential pricing for the shuffles. Wal-Mart could destroy Apple if it wanted to. In comparison, Apple is a drop in the bucket to Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart will set the price, Apple will have to follow.

[Eric_Z]

@xsnightclub, SiliconAddict

You know, spicing your arguments up with ad hominems aren't going to make them any better...

@xsnightclub

IIRC the interesting thing about Chineese industry is that up untill very recently they had a never ending supply of cheap labour from the poorer western rural areas. Now however that the Chineese economy has started to crawl up to the point where the industry jobs are starting to become non-competetive and there is a worker shortage. The industries of course are trying to keep there low wage costs by increasing advertising in rural areas, but it's to not much use. They are slowly starting to increase wages and benefits and softening working hours.

[tykles]

walmart probably has one of the worst "human rights" records out there in terms of major corporations since the industrial revolution. and yet, if you were to sum the net worth of the living waltons, they would become the wealthiest living person on the planet by a fair margin. to compare them to the unfortunately low standards set by big business in general is not remotely comparable. the waltons and their company (and the way they exploit cheap and illegal labor) is completely inexcusable. I am currently part of america's middle/lower class, i buy apple because of all the reasons you guys can relate to, and i would not touch walmart with a stolen credit card. they are absolute f**kers on any scale you could create. seriously. i understand apple's desire to outsell microsoft and all, and I have heard that "apple is just a business", but when profits become more important than basic moral standards, you need to center yourself.

[Xtremehkr]

Should help with the coming PlaysForSure campaign. That is an instantly hateable slogan, thanks M$.

*Edit: cause I tend to skip words lately.

[rdowns]

If Apple is to grow their market share, they need to be on the shelves of places where people shop. Apple products at WalMart, Best Buy and Target is good. No doubt the other big box retailers like Circuit City won't be far behind. Even if Apple is only distributing limited products in these locations (iPods, Mac mini), it puts Apple products in places where people have not been exposed to them. Should lead to people wanting to see more Apple products, either in those locations or they will seek them out elsewhere.

WalMart's business practices are well documented and possibly exaggerated but that is not Apple's problem. They are a business and wider distribution of their products is a good thing. If you don't like WalMart, vote with your wallet and don't shop there. America votes with theirs and shops there in droves.

[chewbaccapits]

Hope they bundle it with SPAM...

[R3z]

Did I miss something? Is Apple having a problem moving these things that would require a deal like this?
I certainly hope this is Just a rumor. Apple is strong, and they've had great luck with fighting pricing pressure before, but we're talking Wal-Mart here, there's not been a retailer with this kind of power before. This isn't even taking into account the negative image associated with Wal-Mart - if you're going to push product at the prices and using the method that Apple does, aligning yourself with the company best known for using bangladeshi toddlers to sew cheap shirts probably isn't the best route. An air of exclusivity and image has helped Apple a great deal so far, and I don't see much reason to give that up now. I don't see this doing a whole lot of good for Apple.
The one good thing I will say about this rumor is that if any company can resist the iron juggernaut of retail, it's Apple. They've demonstrated a callous disregard for partnerships in the past, and Jobs is legendary for his ego - this is the man who, by proxy of Pixar, told the largest family/animated movie company around what they can do with their partnership. I don't think this will destroy Apple, but I hardly see this as a Good Thing(tm).

[SiliconAddict]

And are you dense or just plain ill informed to think that the other big box retailers don't do this stuff also. BTW do a google search on target and sucks, best buy and sucks etc... And also the likely hood of being sued has more to do with how deep your pockets are and how high profile your company is than with actually doing anything wrong. Not that I am saying they don't do anything wrong, they do along with the rest of corporate America. And while you are blasting walmart for hiring non-union and trying for tax breaks and incentives, take a close look at where our precious Apple products are made, Dolt.

God. It’s like talking to a grade schooler. They counterpoint by sticking out their tongue and pouting that they are right so NANANANAN. Sad really.

You do a search on google for anything and you will find complaints pure and simple. I'm talking looking into the company with goggle. Walmart IS one of the worst retail chains out there in terms of both corp culture and employee management. I would suggest you get a clue before you start comparing companies you know nothing about. The other companies, I worked for Best Buy corp campus (Based here in MN.) for 1 year, at least treat their employees with some respect, offer solid benefits and don’t play around with skirting the law and local governments. Everything I've read, and again talked to former employees of Walmart points to them being a scum ball company above and beyond the average company in the US.
Don't argue on a subject you don't know jack **** about. Again I point to Walmart being the most sued company in recent American history. The likelihood of being sued more is based on money and suit merit. There are obviously baloney claims against many big companies but the fact remains that Walmart last year got sued more then the US government. That and they have stopped settling in count and gone ahead with some of these lawsuits. This has caused the number of sketchy suites to drop yet they still are number one in lawsuits in the US.

[SiliconAddict]

WalMart's business practices are well documented and possibly exaggerated but that is not Apple's problem. They are a business and wider distribution of their products is a good thing. If you don't like WalMart, vote with your wallet and don't shop there. America votes with theirs and shops there in droves.


Amen. It does come down to if you don't like it don't buy it or in this case by from a provider. It’s obvious that Apple is trying to get the shuffle into as wide a distribution channel as possible. I hate that they have to deal with Walmart but from a business standpoint it makes perfect sense.
Bah! What ever happened to Apple being this company that didn't like big business? Wasn't Apple anti-big-business in the beginning loathing IBM and the like? Wonder where in Apple's history this changed. :confused:

I’m not condemning the change. I’m just curious if anyone has any insight or was the anti-big-business of Apple just overstated?

[billystlyes]

Did you forget the conest where cups at 7-11 had iTunes free codes on them?

HE HE. I forgot! Fore real though I don't see how selling Shuffles at Walmart would hurt Apple. They sell them at Target! Now Kmart would another story! :eek: JK!

[nagromme]

Great for Apple... they must be confident they can make a lot!

But I have to say, Wal-Mart deserves a boycott if anyone ever did, for many, many reasons...

PBS streaming video documentary:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/view/

(See also http://www.walmartwatch.com/ )

PS, Re 7-11... The iPod Shuffle IS going to be sold in 7-11s! (In Singapore.)

[narco]

Thats odd, Green Bay has 2 Wal-Marts,1 sams club, 2 targets, 2 Kmarts, 2 Home Depots, 3 Shopkos, 2 kohls, 1 best buy, 1 circuit city, 2 menards, and numerous other big box grocery stores. Your example has no logic that any store is destroying your local economy.

But if it puts the availability for people to buy an iPod shuffle that have walmarts nearby that don't have Apple stores or best buys, all the better for Apple and us Apple users.

Well, maybe some places like Green Bay mark their calendars and wait in excitement for a new Walmart like it's a new church. I only know what it has done to my local economy. People save 2¢ so they go to Walmart instead of the local ma and pa stores. Not only that but the Super Walmarts have grocery stores that aren't unionized. As a result, businesses are closing up rapidly, leaving empty lots scattered all throughout the city. But I guess you can just say "that's business." Which it is, unfortunately.

Walmart is cheap. Cheap prices, cheap quality. Definitely no place for an Apple product in my opinion, because it cheapens the brand name.

I think it's a bad move. I will probably always own an iPod, but when that little red head kid (wearing Wranglers and a t-shirt with a wolf on it) has a pair of white earbuds listening to his Toby Keith, then people are going to start looking for the next "cool" thing.

Maybe so, maybe not.

Fishes,
narco.

[PalmHarborTchr]

I wonder if Walmart would be allowed even a modest discount on their pricing. That would be very typical of Walmart, but singularly unbelievable for Apple.

Anyone remember VALSICK PICKELS? Walmort put them out of business.
I would stay away from Walmort...it is death to all but chinese mfg.
products. you get the volumn and no profit.

[HiRez]

Ugh, first HP, then Pepsi and McDonald's, now Wal-Mart? I hate to apply the phrase "selling out" to Apple but...yeesh. Then again, I suppose it will help them "sell out" in more ways than one. Oh well, the times, they are a changin'. I usually don't care much about who Apple does business with but Wal-Mart are truly scumbags who have a wide-ranging and adverse effect on our society IMHO (and at odds with everything Apple has stood for in the past). Bow before the almighty dollar.

[Stella]

I don't like walmart, I never go there. However if Apple sell more Shuffles due to this, then its only good.

I'll be buying my shuffle from other stores.

[isaacc7]

Yeah, but Best Buy? Target? Only one of each in my city, but we somehow have 4 Walmarts, not including 2 Sam's Club stores. They may have the same business practices, but I don't see Best Buy destroying the local economy.

Fishes,
narco.


They'd love to put all the local stores out of business, but they can't. They rely on us to do it for them... Seriously, I don't understand the gripes with Walmart "ruining" local businesses. Walmart obviously gives people what they want, if the local stores were worth supporting (for money, nostalgia, personal attention, etc) people would still go there. The logic of trying to get rid of a company that people love to go to just so that we'd have the luxury of paying higher prices at places that people would obviously rather not go to eludes me. They are a successful company with a lot of leverage, but remember, no one holds a gun to suppliers heads forcing them to sell their products there. If Apple doesn't think they'll make enough money, you can be sure they'll pull the plug.

Isaac

[Kagetenshi]

Did I miss something? Is Apple having a problem moving these things that would require a deal like this?
I certainly hope this is Just a rumor. Apple is strong, and they've had great luck with fighting pricing pressure before, but we're talking Wal-Mart here, there's not been a retailer with this kind of power before. This isn't even taking into account the negative image associated with Wal-Mart - if you're going to push product at the prices and using the method that Apple does, aligning yourself with the company best known for using bangladeshi toddlers to sew cheap shirts probably isn't the best route. An air of exclusivity and image has helped Apple a great deal so far, and I don't see much reason to give that up now. I don't see this doing a whole lot of good for Apple.

Reiterating that I'm not thrilled about anything Wal*Mart related, your objection makes no sense. Apple is selling the things as fast as they can make them anyway; under what grounds, exactly, is Waldo World Arena going to have any leverage with which to apply pricing pressure?

~J

[mian]

While I am no fan of Walmart, in my town of 50,000 people there isn't a place to buy any Apple iPod. Staples and Radio Shack carry the hp ipods, but I don't think we will see a hp suffle. So this move would expand Apple's retail reach and exposure, which is a good thing.

[takao]

Again I point to Walmart being the most sued company in recent American history. The likelihood of being sued more is based on money and suit merit. There are obviously baloney claims against many big companies but the fact remains that Walmart last year got sued more then the US government. That and they have stopped settling in count and gone ahead with some of these lawsuits. This has caused the number of sketchy suites to drop yet they still are number one in lawsuits in the US.

on walmart: i don't get what a big fuss is all about them .... here in austria they haven't even started and in germany they get completly spanked by the compitition and sued over because of labour laws ....and after all _every_ store of them has net loss of over 30.000€ _every_ day

they came on the market with big advertising about their low prices...few months later studies came out that the compition is cheaper by far..they dropped prices ... competition dropped prices(with still making profits)... walmart stopped advertising
_and_ they have the lowest 'customer satisfactioness' of all retails :rolleyes:

on topic: for apple this will give them a nice boost in the US... good news for them ...

[Nicholas Knight]

The problem is that people are often weak when it comes to acting on their morals when it involves self-sacrifice. (I am not exempt.) They either cannot afford to act on their moral belief due to financial concerns, which is entirely understandable, or they are not willing to sacrifice that much in order to act on their beliefs.

I have many friends who would like to buy a Macintosh after seeing mine in action, but they do not because of the higher initial cost. (Switching is more expensive than simply upgrading to a new PC, partly due to software changes.) They know the moral arguments, and what Microsoft has done business-wise, and they don't like what they hear, but in the end they choose to go with the route easiest on themselves. I know this feeling well, as I constantly wobble back and forth with my computer platform decision in the very same way.

It's the same with many people and Wal-Mart, they have either heard the bad reports or they have not. Those who have not heard them, are obviously not making any moral decision, they are just shopping. Those who have studied Wal-Mart have done one of two things, either they do not consider such things morally, or they have come to a moral crossroads regarding their business dealings with Wal-Mart. This second choice involves one of many possibilities, either shopping there less, not at all, or continuing to shop there and not involve sacrifice.

If you see another store or business, which has practices disagreeable to you, then you have to make a choice as well. In the end it comes down to how much you are willing to sacrifice, and if you are able to do so in the first place. If acting morally responsible in your business dealings were easy everyone would do it. As was previously stated in this thread, let your dollar do the talking. It's up to you to decide which battles you want to fight, if any.

Financially this is a good thing for Apple. I'll let you decide on the morality of it all.

[AlanAudio]

Well it's quite clear that WalMart isn't the most beloved retailer in the US and many people here would rather eat worms than buy stuff from them, but the fact remains that they are not merely a big retailer, they are immense.

If Apple don't let WalMart sell Shuffles, you can be entirely sure that WalMart will sell millions of other players and every one of those will be unsuitable for direct operation with iTMS.

It's considerably better for Apple and all Mac users if Walmart were to sell iPods rather than WMA players.

Maybe it's a sign that although iTMS is reportedly only marginally profitable at the moment, in the longer term Apple sees iTMS as a serious money-maker. In order for iTMS to become universally used, retailers like WalMart will need to sell players that work with iTMS.

Every time they sell a WMA player, it's a lost iTMS customer. Every time they sell an iPod, it's a potential iTMS customer but also a potential upgrader and switcher.

Apple needs to sell iPods everywhere if they're to be used by everyone.

[Wonder Boy]

walmart is going to exist whether shuffles are sold there or not. so enough of the "walmart is evil" talk. they don't care what you think.

apple can use all the distribution channles they can get. there are a lot more accessable walmarts then there are apple stores. no one knows were you got ipod from, just that you have one.

let walmart sell the shuffle. where else can you get your a prescription filled, tires rotated, buy a music player, and get a 3 gallon tub of peanut butter? you can't do that in SoHo.

[rdowns]

Ugh, first HP, then Pepsi and McDonald's, now Wal-Mart? I hate to apply the phrase "selling out" to Apple but...yeesh. Then again, I suppose it will help them "sell out" in more ways than one. Oh well, the times, they are a changin'. I usually don't care much about who Apple does business with but Wal-Mart are truly scumbags who have a wide-ranging and adverse effect on our society IMHO (and at odds with everything Apple has stood for in the past). Bow before the almighty dollar.

Selling out my ass. If you think Apple was ever anything other than a for profit business practicing the same tactics you complain about, you're delusional. The 1984 big brother ad, marketing, pure and simple. Think Different- damn straight, we need to sell some computers and very few are buying them.

[jsalzer]

Walmart put Rubbermaid out of business!!! They are assholes and will try to drive Apple to cheap labor. :mad:

Ugh - when did this happen? Rubbermaid is one of the few superior companies that I will *always* give my business to when I have an option. Right up there with Apple in terms of quality of product. How did I miss that they went under? Are they completely under, or just falling?

As fer Walmart - I'd rather give my retail markup directly to Apple and wait for the shipping. We tend to forget that we vote with our wallets. Support those companies who have treated you well, folks. Talking about how good or bad a company is on a forum is one thing, but who you give your money to is what really matters!

Apple
Rubbermaid
S.C. Johnson
EZQuest
Shell
Lowe's
K-mart
Targus
Imation
3M

These are the folks who get my business when I have a choice. They take care of me, and I take care of them.

[virividox]

this is good i think :) more exposure but hope it doesnt turn into another best buy fiasco

[jelloshotsrule]

Shell


shell?? hmm... well to each their own..

well said nicholas knight..

a thorough article about wal mart

The Truth About Wal-Mart (http://votenader.org/issues/index.php?cid=47)

do i think wal-mart is one of the worst corporate citizens around? yes. do i think that it's naive to think that the other companies are all that much better? yes. it's wal-mart's size that has them even more under the microscope. some of their business practices are clearly reprehensible, and yet many of the people that shop there feel like they have no choice (financially)... and these are the same people wal-mart is screwing to begin with. a sad cycle.

[Nicholas Knight]

Well it's quite clear that WalMart isn't the most beloved retailer in the US and many people here would rather eat worms than buy stuff from them, but the fact remains that they are not merely a big retailer, they are immense.

If Apple don't let WalMart sell Shuffles, you can be entirely sure that WalMart will sell millions of other players and every one of those will be unsuitable for direct operation with iTMS.
I have to agree. While many of us may not like Wal-Mart, I can't blame Apple for seeing the need to sell there, as not doing so while the competition does, will hurt them.

walmart is going to exist whether shuffles are sold there or not. so enough of the "walmart is evil" talk. they don't care what you think.
It doesn't matter what they think, it does however matter what the customer thinks. Wal-Mart's own slogan is "The customer is always right." It's a good thing when fellow customers share all the information they have on Wal-Mart or any other business, so that they can all decide whether it is a place that they would like to do business at. Sharing information with the goal of helping others learn not only the good, but the bad side of a company, is a good thing. You don't have to read about it if you don't want to.

[diamacibal]

Now Apple is hiding behind a really big evil corporation, now they are suddenly angels. :p

Apple would not refuse gaining marketshare when it comes to consumer desktops. And this is just one opportunity for the company to push its name into the world's largest retailer and in front of more people's eyes. Given the opportunity, Apple would be just as "evil" as the Dells and Microsofts of the world if its computers and software had a majority in usership. Just consider the recent lawsuit filed against Apple for its DRM <http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/01/06/slattery/index.php>. More of that is in store if Apple continues to grow, and I expect it will; Apple execs aren't going to be sitting around the boardroom one day and say, "You know what? Let's stop growing this company... it's getting too big to be cool anymore."

[mklos]

I think you nay sayers are all missing the point here....

First of all, not everyone lives right next to a major electronics store such as Best Buy, or Circuit City. The whole point is this is the get the iPod into the hands of those people who don't already own one and don't live somewhere around an electronics store.

Apple must plan on selling a TON of these iPod Shuffles if they want to sell in WalMart, because they will certinaly sell.

What this will do is also get Apple's name out to the people who aren't computer oriented and so they may at least think about buying a Mac.

That being said, if the iPod shuffle is doing real well, and Apple has caught up on Mac Mini orders, I think Apple should sell the Mac Mini in Walmart too. Apple's market share is diminishing. Its less than 1% worldwide. Its something like .8%. So in other words, out of every 100 computers sold worldwide, not even 1 of them on average is a Mac.

Apple needs to do something such as sell the Mac Mini in WalMart stores. This will further get Apple's name out there as a computer company, and NOT just the creators of the iPod. Believe it or not, there are still people out there that know of the iPod, but don't know that the creators of the iPod also make computers.

Now, in order to sell Mac Mini's in WalMart stores they need to find a way to market this really well or else it the Mini will just sit there and gather dust. The so called scumbags (no offense to anyone) that work in the electronics dept of WalMart will know nothing about it, so they will put it down as something thats not compatible with PCs, there's no software, no peripherals, etc, all which are not true as we all know. But you have to get that into people's heads, that Macs are just another producer of computers. I think this would be the best thing that Apple has done to increase their marketshre in the computer industry if they go ahead and do that. All they have to sell is the Mini itself. No Apple Cinema Displays, no iMacs, or other computers, nothing else. If there was one thing they could sell, its the keyboard and the mouse.

Software is another issue, but WalMart can increase its software dept without any problems and offer the basic Mac apps such as Office, Print Shop, and maybe a few games. Just the typical software titles that aren't standard on a Mac. WalMart doesn't offer much for software anyways except for the $10 rinkydink titles that sometimes run on both platforms.

It shouldn't matter what people think of WalMart. If the 350lb fatass moron down the street buys an iPod Shuffle and/or a Mac Mini thats the friggin' point of doing this. Just becuase WalMart treats its employees poorly, and Welfare people shop there doesn't mean its not suitable for Apple. It doesn't destroy Apple's name, it gets their name out there to others who don't have a clue as to what Apple is. If Apple feels any pressure from WalMart on anything, they'll pull their products right out of WalMarts hands, just like they did with Circuit City, Best Buy, and Sears and it will be a loss for WalMart, not Apple. Apple is in control here, not WalMart.

So I other words, I think this is something Apple should do. People need to stop thinking that Macs should only be sold in expensive electronic stores. Macs are for everyone, and everyone should have the opportunity to look at them, use them, and most of all, buy them.

[jsalzer]

shell?? hmm... well to each their own..

Eh - it's probably regional, but I've never been met with anything less than an enthusiastic and warm welcome by the cashiers and clean facilities (indoor and out). It's a gas station. What more can you ask for? ;)

The point being - send your money to the people who treat you right. It doesn't always work out in the end, but at least you've voted.

Now what I'd really hate to see happen with this deal is what I ran into buying a GE blender at Walmart 5 or 6 years ago. Upon closer inspection of the box, I discovered it wasn't a GE-designed or GE-built blender. It was a Wal-mart designed and built blender with the GE logo "licensed". How's that for scary!

[cantthinkofone]

This could be a good move by apple to get apple's products out there in the midst of windows, but i dont think it is.

But its WAL-MART!!! Any one that says they love wal-mart is a employe and had their phone line taped, computer, and mail read making sure they dont insult the great communist government of America.

I dont remember who said it, but i hope this might change wal-mart, but i doubt it will. When wal-mart came to the town where i live, it closed down little family owned shops all over, good ones too. Places where you couldn't get things any where else. And you were purchasing from people you knew, so they treated you with respect, not "heres your crap, now move over for the next sucker."

[joeboy_45101]

Walmart put Rubbermaid out of business!!! They are assholes and will try to drive Apple to cheap labor. :mad:

This quote hits the nail on the head.

I am in college and work at a Wal-Mart for money. And seeing how that company opperates from the inside makes me sick. To all the people that think Microsoft and Bill Gates are the devil, I invite you to work at a Wal-Mart for just one weekend. I hate that company and their stores with a passion. When you see a news article about how horrible that company treats their employees it's usually, if not 100% of the time, true.

For instance, I work in the Photo Lab portion of the store. For three months we were without any type of management, this came to be a serious problem when the filter on our METS tank died. You see a METS Tank is used to dispose of the toxic substance that runs off of the machines, this is silver-bearing waste, when the filter dies a manager needs to order a new one. We had no manager and we had no filter, so we had to store this toxic waste in the lab. 70 gallons of the stuff was stored in our work-space, imagine for just a minute going into your job and having to watch where you walk because there are gasoline jugs full of toxic waste. "But wait just a minute Joe", you might say, "I've seen those commercials on TV telling me how great Wal-Mart is!" Well, who produced those commercials? Was it a third-party group? No! Of course you idiot, Wal-Mart is not going to come on TV and tell the world how *****ty it is to work there.

I also seem to suffer from the "curse", what we on the inside call it. When I or some of my co-workers try to get ahead and move on to another place of employment the "curse" always occurs, no matter how good my credentials or how well I present myself nobody wants to hire someone that's worked at Wal-Mart. And if your store management finds out that you've been looking for another job they get real arsey and try and punish you for being a traitor, even if it's just a second job that you are looking for. Wal-Mart tries to run people's lives. Wal-Mart is the cancer on the soul and working body of America.

Apple does not need to get sucked into this corporate death-trap. At first everybody is great in the deal, but then Wal-Mart will start to push it's weight around and demand cheaper and cheaper iPods. Wait and see, I know this company and in the long run has nothing good to offer Apple, America, or the World.

[joeboy_45101]

Well it's quite clear that WalMart isn't the most beloved retailer in the US and many people here would rather eat worms than buy stuff from them, but the fact remains that they are not merely a big retailer, they are immense.

If Apple don't let WalMart sell Shuffles, you can be entirely sure that WalMart will sell millions of other players and every one of those will be unsuitable for direct operation with iTMS.

It's considerably better for Apple and all Mac users if Walmart were to sell iPods rather than WMA players.

Maybe it's a sign that although iTMS is reportedly only marginally profitable at the moment, in the longer term Apple sees iTMS as a serious money-maker. In order for iTMS to become universally used, retailers like WalMart will need to sell players that work with iTMS.

Every time they sell a WMA player, it's a lost iTMS customer. Every time they sell an iPod, it's a potential iTMS customer but also a potential upgrader and switcher.

Apple needs to sell iPods everywhere if they're to be used by everyone.

You write this as if Apple doesn't already have 70%+ marketshare of digital music players. It's apparent to me that Apple really doesn't need Wal-Mart to be successful with the iPod. I mean if they were actually struggling to sell iPods, then I would buy your stupid theory. Apple doesn't need Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart needs Apple. Wal-Mart hasn't had success in their music store and they don't really sell a huge amount of digital music players that are actually worth buying. :mad:

[nbs2]

Walmart put Rubbermaid out of business!!! They are assholes and will try to drive Apple to cheap labor. :mad:

The Rubbermaid website seems to be working just fine. Beyond that, I'm curious to understand why people are so upset. If I remember right, Walmart started out as a member of the local economy and simply did better than everybody else.

Why are people bothered that the shuffle is being sold at walmart? I thought it was being hailed as the "affordable" ipod....one that everybody would use - no excuses about the price. I have a hard time imagining walking into a store and picking up a PM or PB. So those who worry about brand image needn't worry, and those who want a Shuffle but don't have close acces to a traditional distribution point will be satiated.

[TheMasin9]

I wonder if this will help sell Shuffles? :p :cool:

I dont know what i think of this. For one thing, im glad to see apples new products in stores other than compusa and apple stores themselves. second, i bet it is going to be a while until walmart sees thier shipments of shuffles cuz from what i hear apple is already behind on shipments. I do think however that the apple revolution is coming, shuffles in walmart, and minis in bestbuy, good things are gonna happen, i hope.

[ChapterHouse]

I can't put my finger on it but for some reason, this brings to my mind this old licensing deal between IBM and Microsoft when IBM was searching for an OS for their new PC back in the early 80's.

For those who don't know or remember, this is the one deal that catapulted Microsoft in the stratosphere...

It feels like one of those moments...

[Kagetenshi]

If I remember right, Walmart started out as a member of the local economy and simply did better than everybody else.

Contrary to Capitalism 101 and Adam Smith, that doesn't make things automatically ok.

~J

[diamacibal]

It's apparent to me that Apple really doesn't need Wal-Mart to be successful with the iPod. I mean if they were actually struggling to sell iPods, then I would buy your stupid theory. Apple doesn't need Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart needs Apple. Wal-Mart hasn't had success in their music store and they don't really sell a huge amount of digital music players that are actually worth buying. :mad:

You have to consider saturation, too. Even if Apple is successful in selling what it has, to grow it needs to grow the available market. While the company has 70% wrapped up, the question is 70% of what: Upwards of ten million or so? And that's worldwide. A distribution network through Wal-Mart will allow Apple to (potentially) increase the number of people who may want an iPod/mp3 player. True, Apple doesn't need Wal-Mart to keep doing what it's doing, but Apple wants Wal-Mart in order to grow its dominance in mp3 players.

[PalmHarborTchr]

[QUOTE=HiRez]Ugh, first HP, then Pepsi and McDonald's, now Wal-Mart? I hate to apply the phrase "selling out" to Apple but...yeesh. Then again, I suppose it will help them "sell out" in more ways than one. Oh well, the times, they are a changin'. I usually don't care much about who Apple does business with but Wal-Mart are truly scumbags who have a wide-ranging and adverse effect on our society IMHO (and at odds with everything Apple has stood for in the past). Bow before the almighty dollar.[/


QUOTE]W E L L S A I D !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gorkonapple]

Where do I start.....

Everyone loves to beat on Walmart because they are successful. That's the nature of the beast once you become popular, but my arguement is that this is going to be nothing but good for Apple, if it's true. Walmart has stores in alot mroe places then Apple does. I think what soem are worried about is that these stores start selling the iPod Shuffle and then Macs and and ......because Walmart can do it better and in more places, those nice and beautiful Apple Stores will shutdown. Gateway tried the same thing at about the same time Apple did, but they were not as successful at it and all of thier stores are now closed. Gateway's problem was not that they didn't do it right. They did. Their stores were equally as nice as the Apple store, with the exception of one thing....I could not walk in and walk out with a computer in hand. I can do this at ANY Apple store (unless I want a Mac Mini). Apple will continue to do this right. Unless they are really successful, you won't see the G5 at Walmart....ever. You just might see the Mac Mini at Walmart and Sam's.

Walmart, in some cases, does not kill communities. In some cases it saves them. Alot of times, I have found, Mom and Pop stores charge MORE then alot of stores because they CAN. If they are the only store in a small town, they can charge anything they want. What choice do you have? Well, if it's not food, you can order it on the internet but with food, you can only drive so far away. Most people do not have a refrgerated trunk. That milk will spoil if your not home in enough time. I will say that the farthest you can go to the store is abotu 30 miles away. Most cold and frozen stuff can't reliably last much longer than 30 minutes with out refrigeration. So for YEARS some communities may pay far more for thier food because they have no choice. Same thing goes with other items....the local Amateur Radio Store here typically is higher than say HRO. They charge the price they charge because they can. People are willing to go to the local store because if they have a problem with it, they can take it back rather then shipping it back. Sometimes it may just be operator error and the store can show you how to fix your problem. This reason is why I do pay mroe then buying it online. The local store survives. If HRO opens up a store in my area (they likely would not), and they are priced cheaper, the store I have been going to will nto get my money. Same goes for Walmart. It's not Walmart's fault they are successful in getting lower prices where the mom and pop's are not. Sure, Walmart has more clout because of the size of thier organization is, but you know what....anyone want to GUESS how Walmart started? IT WAS A MOM AND POP! Same goes with Meijer, another successful Mom and Pop. Also, any company the size of either of these chains is going to gain negaive publicity. The honest thing is most people could care less.

Walmart opened their store in Rogers, AK in 1962. By 1967, they already has 24 stores. By 1971, they had 38 stores in 5 states. Walmart's IPO on the NYSE was in 1972. In contrast, Meijer still has not had a IPO. They are still owned, to this day, by the Meijer Family. While not as large as Walmart, they still are a force to be reckoned with in the midwest. Meijer pioneered the superstore. Walmart was just late to that party as was Kmart. In any case, before you start complaining that Walmart is bad, be open minded and read about the positive things they do which are FAR more prevelent, I find, with Walmart then they are given credit for.

Also, I have not seen nore heard a single story that Walmart refuses to hire union workers. Walmart legally can do nothing to stop the unionization of it's workers. It's entirely legal for Walmart to give a pay raise and satisfy all of the gripes the workers have for starting a union. If they do that and the employees choose not to unionize, then what is so wrong with that? Unions were once needed because almost ALL for profit companies were screwing their employees. I contend now, with the current governmental controls, theirs MORE power in negotiating your own benefits, if you can. Your voice can be heard if youc an talk to management. Once your unionized, your only voice is to your union rep who SHOULD share what you said with management, but likely will shape it with his own agenda. You have more power if you can directly go to management and voice your opinion with the promise that the management doesn't punish you for a idea. Unions are set up by the companies workers. Their can be a Walmart Workers Union or the workers can choose to associate with the UFCW or some other union. The fact that there are not Unions in alot of Walmart stores indicates, to me, that the employees are generally happy.

My personal experience with Walmart is entirely positive. They help out in the community and are a good community citizen. Also almost every employee I have met at a Walmart have been mostly happy to be there. Oh sure, noone can ever be completely happy at work, but most of the employees I have met were genuine and helpful.

So back to the subject at hand, is this a good thing for Apple? Well, if it sells at Walmart well, it's a awesome thing for Apple. Not only do they sell more iPods, but they also get the ancillary sales from iTMS. If Walmart sells enough iPods, I bet we'll see a resurgence and Mac Mini's will also be added and possibly a Mac software section. Eventually, Apple will start to gain ground on Wintel and I personally don't care how it would happen, but if the Mac starts to outsell Wintel, it would only be a god thing. People are getting tired of being screwed by that cheap PC they bought at Walmart with a shoddy OS that allows virii and worms to proliferate. The archetecture of Mac OS X, while not bomb proof, it is much better then Windows and less susceptible to viruses. Sure, it woudl come under attack more the more popular it becomes, but it's alot harder to find a bug in a OS that has as it's two catch phrases: it just works and it's simple.

I wanted to add something...I find it ironic that Teresa HEINZ Kerry who has made many negative comments about Walmart, still sells Ketchup at Walmart.

[JGowan]

Wal*Mart seems to attract the "good-ol'-hard-workin'-god-bless-the-USA" slice of American Pie, not quite the hot-bed-of-technology-types that I think will appreciate or understand Apple. I think Wal*Mart customers, for the most part, will just see the Apple logo and dismiss Shuffle altogether, figuring it won't work with their computer (if they even have one).

Also, as far as the Electronics staff knowing what's is going on or how something works, you couldn't do much worse. If you work for Wal*Mart don't get pissed, you know that my generalizations are not indicative of ALL Wal*Mart, but certainly a heck of lot of 'em. And you probably work along side a whole lot of them.

Now, I shop at Wal*Mart. I buy certain things there. Food, Detergent, Drugs and I get my oil changed there. Wal*Mart, however, is not the first store that comes to mind when I think of were to go to buy technology.

Now, hopefully, Apple will change my perceptions -- but I doubt it.

[nbs2]

Contrary to Capitalism 101 and Adam Smith, that doesn't make things automatically ok.

~J

Should companies be forced to stop growing when they reach a certain level of dominance in an industry? Or are we saying that corporations should not use their clout to ensure better deals so as to increase their profits? I guess ipod marketshare has reached walmart levels, making it difficult/almost impossible for small manufacturers to find business profitable. And I'm sure that Apple has leveraged that share to get better deals from suppliers. I'm sure that every company is always trying to improve its position with suppliers and distributors.

I guess what I'd like to know is why walmart is so evil. How do they "destroy" the local economy in a way that is different from what the catalog companies of the past, department stores, malls, supermarkets, fast food chains, multi-plexes, etc? Why are their low-cost tactics worse than dollar stores, outlets, supermarkets, etc?

[JGowan]

Wal-Mart could destroy Apple if it wanted to.You're high. How could this happen. They don't even SELL Apple stuff yet! And now they're getting a single product, Apple's cheapest offering to date.

Wal-Mart will set the price, Apple will have to follow.Apple won't HAVE to do anything. I don't think Steve Jobs is the type of person that lets other corporations tell him what to do. If you think this, you haven't been on the Apple scene long at all.

[AppleFoussa]

I hate Walmart. I wish Apple did not do that. Apple Should know better than to support greedy companies who treat their employees like ****.
Sincerely
Will

[JGowan]

... I hardly see this as a Good Thing(tm).

Using the OPTION key & the 2 key together gives you the TM symbol, such as, in your case: "a Good Thing™".

[joeboy_45101]

Should companies be forced to stop growing when they reach a certain level of dominance in an industry? Or are we saying that corporations should not use their clout to ensure better deals so as to increase their profits? I guess ipod marketshare has reached walmart levels, making it difficult/almost impossible for small manufacturers to find business profitable. And I'm sure that Apple has leveraged that share to get better deals from suppliers. I'm sure that every company is always trying to improve its position with suppliers and distributors.

I guess what I'd like to know is why walmart is so evil. How do they "destroy" the local economy in a way that is different from what the catalog companies of the past, department stores, malls, supermarkets, fast food chains, multi-plexes, etc? Why are their low-cost tactics worse than dollar stores, outlets, supermarkets, etc?

To your first question: yes. You and I don't know what it is to live in an age of true monopolies. I do not believe for one second that monopolistic control by a company is good for society. I mean Jesus Christ!, this is America the land of diversity. What the hell did we fight the fascists for, to stop one-party control. Why did we oppose the communists, to stop one-party control.

And to all the people out there bashing unions let me tell you something, if it wasn't for unions we wouldn't have the 8-hr work day. You would be working in some dank factory for 12 and 15 hours a day, making barely enough to live on. You would still have child-labor. What kind of sick person could uphold that type of work environment?

And when somebody says Wal-Mart doesn't oppose unions let me tell you, I work for those people and when I went through my training we watched a video on how to spot and deter union organizers within the company. We are trained to spot and eliminate any opposition to Wal-Mart's way of thinking, Stalinistic if you ask me. Apple doesn't need to associate themselves with that type of company. I remember watching a video of Steve Jobs and he described Microsoft as, "They have no class what-so-ever!", he continued, "They don't bring any class to what they are doing." I'd say who could apply the same thing to Wal-Mart.

[ErnieFrance4]

Ugh, first HP, then Pepsi and McDonald's, now Wal-Mart? I hate to apply the phrase "selling out" to Apple but...yeesh. Then again, I suppose it will help them "sell out" in more ways than one. Oh well, the times, they are a changin'. I usually don't care much about who Apple does business with but Wal-Mart are truly scumbags who have a wide-ranging and adverse effect on our society IMHO (and at odds with everything Apple has stood for in the past). Bow before the almighty dollar.

Everyone wonders way Apple has such a small market share and it is attitudes like this. Apple finally starts marketing to the consumers (low-end) and everyone who has been using them forever gets mad becuase now everyone has the possibility to use them. You probably shop at Target because its monochromatic design and squeaky clean floors (much like Apples); I love Apple products and I think that it is great that they are marketing to the general population. I am sure many of you own stock this is going to make you money.

People reading these sites are going to get the idea that Apple users are a bunch of stuck-up rich people who want to be in a select group containing only people like themselves.

Wake-up people, Apple is trying to expand and market to everyone not just those who can dish out a few thousand dollars for a computer. So get over it.

[bretm]

Contrary to Capitalism 101 and Adam Smith, that doesn't make things automatically ok.

~J

Well, you gave not evidence to the contrary did you. Contrary to Socialism 101 - there's an idea that's gone real well - it is. Leave the government out of it and let competition thrive. If WalMart doesn't meet the needs of the community, a better option will emerge.

So it charges little, and pays little. The employees know nothing about products, etc. Well, at some point, a moderately priced store will open up in that communty with knowledgeable salespeople that will fit the niche.

The internet now takes the place of the post office. Let's get rid of that. People aren't selling many horse and wagons anymore due to car manufacturers, let's get rid of car manufacturers.

The free market will find a way and society is better and freer for it. Keep government intervention out of it. All they can do is put a band-aid on a problem for a temporary fix - with my money - which causes another problem, which needs more legislation and promises, etc.

The only problem I have with WalMart is imminent domain. They have used their weight to convince local governments to use imminent domain in pretty sketchy ways to allow WalMart to build stores. But once again, it's the government that stepped in and allowed the problem. Pretty creative to WalMart to try, and ridiculous that they succeeded. Any elected official that supports this lack of respect for property rights needs to be voted out.

[jjmaximum]

As soon as I saw this thread, I was going to post about the evils of Wal-Mart...but I was pleased to see 80 people beat me to it. Take five minutes to understand how our entire economic system works and anyone can see how Wal-Mart is ruining our country and our basic economic system.

Me and my family stopped going there three years ago, and I can honestly say that we save ALOT of money by going to other places because we don't buy a bunch of crap we don't need and we buy better quality products that meet our needs.

Nice to know I'm not alone... :)

[JGowan]

I just thought about how Wal*Mart operates and its almost ZERO tolerance with unfulfilled orders and empty shelves. Couple this with Apple and its neverending ability to NOT have product on time and in the types of quantities that it will take to keep Wal*Mart happy. Regardless of Apple getting into WM, I doubt it will stay. It will not be able to keep up with the demand and get dropped faster than you can say "World Domination".

[pubwvj]

As for Canada, (that's the country above you stateside Americans by the way).

No, no, no, Canada, like Maine, Alaska, and Vermont is one of the 50 states. They were added just after Florida was sold to Cuba for $50 plus two strings of glass beads. Don't you know your history?!?

[JGowan]

I can't put my finger on it but for some reason, this brings to my mind this old licensing deal between IBM and Microsoft when IBM was searching for an OS for their new PC back in the early 80's.

For those who don't know or remember, this is the one deal that catapulted Microsoft in the stratosphere...

It feels like one of those moments...Put your money where your mouth is. Buy Apple stock. :)

[johnnowak]

Well, you gave not evidence to the contrary did you. Contrary to Socialism 101 - there's an idea that's gone real well - it is. Leave the government out of it and let competition thrive. If WalMart doesn't meet the needs of the community, a better option will emerge.

Unfortunately, that's not the way it works. People who are poor have very little cash to make ends meet, and therefore shop at whatever the cheapest place is. Often, it's Wal*Mart. However, Wal*Mart is one of the lowest wage, anti-union employers around, and ends up driving local companies out of business. When they go under, those people who were shopping at Wal*Mart have no choice but to go work for them for less money than they were making before.

So it charges little, and pays little. The employees know nothing about products, etc. Well, at some point, a moderately priced store will open up in that communty with knowledgeable salespeople that will fit the niche.

There are many communities that wouldn't not support a "moderately" priced store. I'm not sure where you live, but I can show you some areas where this definitely isn't true.

The internet now takes the place of the post office. Let's get rid of that. People aren't selling many horse and wagons anymore due to car manufacturers, let's get rid of car manufacturers.

No one is suggesting any of this.

The free market will find a way and society is better and freer for it.

Ah yes. The "invisible hand" argument. How is it then that the most free market economy of the industrialized nations (America's), in one of the largest nations in the world, only ranks 9th in standard of living? Smaller nations with less resources such as Sweden, a socialist country, are on top almost every time. Your argument that capitalism fixes things like magic and that socialism never works is bunk.

They have used their weight to convince local governments to use imminent domain in pretty sketchy ways to allow WalMart to build stores. But once again, it's the government that stepped in and allowed the problem. Pretty creative to WalMart to try, and ridiculous that they succeeded. Any elected official that supports this lack of respect for property rights needs to be voted out.

I agree with you here. Sadly, American culture is so apathetic towards these sort of things (one could make the argument that their mentality has been eroded by consumerism, but I digress). In a socialist country, where there is a concept of "the greater good", stores like Wal*Mart do not flourish. It is only in primitive capitalist nations where corporations like this can take advantage of the people.

[jeffgarden]

I only read the first page so all apologies if this was said, but a lot of people are bringing up that Walmart has a music store that competes with iTunes and now they're going to sell iPods.

The thing is, there's like hundreds of coorporations that don't regularly deal with music (Walmart has a music section...with like 20 cd's....and 19 are Yanni) that have opened music stores.

Best Buy is teamed up with Rhapsody but they sell iPods. Virgin has a store but they sell iPods.

So it's really not quite as bad as say Microsoft.com selling iPods :p

[LaMerVipere]

What kind of liberal is Steve Jobs?

Apple + Pepsi: Hey! Lets help rot more people's teeth, and make them fatter together!
Apple + McDonalds (Steve wanted this deal): Lets help more people get fat and kill themselves!
Apple + WalMart: Why stop when we're on a roll? Might as well help the most evil corporation on the planet make even more money.

I'm just sayin'

I know Steve is a businessman first, and a liberal second...but c'mon. :rolleyes:

[tex210]

I too am impressed with all our PBS watching Apple users!
I agree on many points.
I was there recently (not many 24 hour shops around), and bought a digital vivitar for my little niece... It was twenty something bucks, and a hat for myself, $ .50 , and some dogfood. Yes, I killed an Angel when the cashier rang me up.
I try not to shop there when I can avoid it, preferring to make multiple trips to multiple stores.

BUT
Wal-Mart is middle America. They are in all these rural spots, where you shop at Wal-mart or the local truck stop. That's a lot of people. Talk about growing the share of iTunes users while also taking over the flash market!
Apple might be better from the experience anyway... see what happened to Target when you offer a discount that isn't approved?
Apple price fixes, and Walmart pressures... my guess is that Apple would walk out of "negotiations" before cow-towing, but who knows... Some people ONLY shop at walmart.

[johnnowak]

What kind of liberal is Steve Jobs?

I know Steve is a businessman first, and a liberal second...but c'mon. :rolleyes:

Time to switch to an AMD/BSD system, eh? :-\

[VicMacs]

Well it's quite clear that WalMart isn't the most beloved retailer in the US and many people here would rather eat worms than buy stuff from them, but the fact remains that they are not merely a big retailer, they are immense.

If Apple don't let WalMart sell Shuffles, you can be entirely sure that WalMart will sell millions of other players and every one of those will be unsuitable for direct operation with iTMS.

It's considerably better for Apple and all Mac users if Walmart were to sell iPods rather than WMA players.

Maybe it's a sign that although iTMS is reportedly only marginally profitable at the moment, in the longer term Apple sees iTMS as a serious money-maker. In order for iTMS to become universally used, retailers like WalMart will need to sell players that work with iTMS.

Every time they sell a WMA player, it's a lost iTMS customer. Every time they sell an iPod, it's a potential iTMS customer but also a potential upgrader and switcher.

Apple needs to sell iPods everywhere if they're to be used by everyone.


I agree

I saw the documentary on wal-mart, i just have to say, it's a shame things are like they are, but fact is they are, america is based on consumism, and walmart has the biggest ppol of consumers, some people 'buy everything here at wal-mart' so let them buy an ipod shuffle too, then an ipod, then a mac mini, then a 2.5GHZ Dual PowerMac G5 with 2 30" monitors and let them reach the REAL American Dream.

now seriously, who here has NOT bought something at wal-mart?

give me a squiggly! that was so gay...

[Brandon Sharitt]

Apparently most of you seem to have forgotten that Wal-mart used to sell Macs. That's where my first Mac came from. It didn't destroy Apple then, it won't destroy them now. Wal-Mart's business practices are no worse than the Bestbuys of the world. They're driving local computer shops out of business just like Wal-Mart did to mom and pop general stores. With everybody getting computers nowdays, MP3 players are the successors of portable CD players, and while Apple now has a majority share of the market, they are the only ones using their standard, while the rest of the world is using a different one. So to stay ahead of the game, Apple has to out sell every one else combined. So far they've been able too, but as more and more people buy MP3 players it will grow harder. So the people who live in their double wide get their $499 complete computer system from Wal-Mart(and yes there are a lot of them) and they decided they(or their kids) want an MP3 player. They live in a small rural town with the closest Bestbuy or Circuit City 50 miles away, but there's a Wal-Mart just down the road, so they go there first. The iPod brand name is basically like the Walkman brand name was and is often thrown around as a generic term for MP3 player. Now if they see the brand they've heard of on the shelves of Wal-Mart, they're rather likely to buy it, but if now, they aren't going to drive 50 miles to get one, they are going to get whatever Wal-Mart has.

Probably the stupidest arguments that I've heard in this thread is that the iPod won't be as cool if everybody has one. From the start Apple's original goal was to make computers for everyone, but they were basically forced into the high end niche they are in now. With the iPod Apple has a second chance to do things right and bring their products to everyone, and with the Mac mini, take a second chance with making it the every man's computer. But then again I'm guessing ya'll are the same people who's reaction to Bush's re-election was "oh no the peasants are revolting".

[johnnowak]

now seriously, who here has NOT bought something at wal-mart?

Me?

[LaMerVipere]

now seriously, who here has NOT bought something at wal-mart?

Me.

[kraeloc]

Bad idea. 95% of liberals hate Walmart, and a good chunk of conservatives too, from what I hear. Pepsi was tolerable, but Walmart will just stain Apple's name.

[BWhaler]

A deal with the devil. Everyone knows you can't buy anything "cool" at Walmart. I don't think this is good news.

Fishes,
narco.

I agree.

This is way off-brand for Apple, and they should be much smarter than this.

When things become available in mass numbers, at the malls in Kansas, at Walmart, they are no longer cool and exclusive. Apple will no long be able to charge a premium for a product that everyone wants.

And when that happens, the cheaper, uglier music players with more features will take hold.

[Brandon Sharitt]

I agree.

This is way off-brand for Apple, and they should be much smarter than this.

When things become available in mass numbers, at the malls in Kansas, at Walmart, they are no longer cool and exclusive. Apple will no long be able to charge a premium for a product that everyone wants.

And when that happens, the cheaper, uglier music players with more features will take hold.

And if Apple doesn't sell at Wal-Mart, the uglier cheaper players will take hold because they are more readily available, and the iPod is in the same place as the Mac, using a different standard than everyone else as a niche product.

[BWhaler]

FYI for those who are mindlessly ranting about the evils of Wal-Mart selling Apple products and how it will destroy the brand reputaion, In the late 90's Wal*Mart did sell Apple Computers in there electronics department and even carried a seperate Mac Software section.

And anyone who thinks it is better to buy anything at Best Buy rather than Wal-Mart or any other big box retailer for that matter, needs to do some serious research on how close the business practices of ALL these major retailers are. The main and most important difference is if you buy your iPod shuffle at Best Buy without an extended warranty plan and it stops working you are S.O.L., you will NEVER see your money back.

Gotta love the Wal-Mart return policy.
(Save your Wal-Mart return policy horror stories for the the fiction section of Mac Rumors, if they don't give you your money back with a smile than you have abused the system.)

Wow. A Walmart apologist. Here at Macrumors. Amazing.

Walmart sold Apple branded computers? No.

And the clones were one of the first things Jobs wisely killed.

There is a reason why you can't buy Ralph Lauren at Walmart. Not because it's a bad company, but because if RL did that, people would no longer see the point in paying $75 for a basic golf shirt which is the same 45 cents of fabric and materials that are in a $20 golf shirt.

This is how premium brands work. It's a tough science, probably more art, but people will pay more for goods regardless of substitute products in the marketplace or value. The iPod is in a place where despite the /. crowd hammering it, reviewers saying it's over-priced and under-featured, people have to have them. Apple is a premium brand. It's desirable. Exclusive.

And Walmart and being massively available will detract from the brand. It will put Apple on the same playing field as everyone else.

So relax, shop at Walmart. I do on the occassion. It's cool. It's just the wrong brand association for a company like Apple.

[BWhaler]

And if Apple doesn't sell at Wal-Mart, the uglier cheaper players will take hold because they are more readily available, and the iPod is in the same place as the Mac, using a different standard than everyone else as a niche product.

But this hasn't happened, has it?

Apple has 90% of the market. Walmart has had dirt cheap ugly music players for years. You make your comments in the future tense as if Walmart, Kmart, the local malls, haven't had these players readily available.

It boils down to this: The iPod has become a fashion accessory. Articles in the New York times fashion section. "Which color mini did you choose?" A sea of white ear plug cords.

And people who pay a premium for things don't buy their fashion at Walmart.

It really is that simple.

[dotdotdot]

Lets hope this is the only thing Apple ever sells in Wal*Mart.

Nah, Wal*Mart will get little stickers of the Apple logo and put it on their computers w/ Windows and say its an Apple for 1/2 the price :p :p :p

[digitalbiker]

I guess your opinion on Wal-Mart varies with where you live. In my town Walmart was a blessing. We had nothing here. No choice, except mail-order. Our community was dying. No jobs. Aging work force, young people leaving.

Walmart came in. Offered better wages and benefits. Stock options. Employed the elderly and handicapped. Sold cheap products that got the job done. Put people to work. Provided scholarship programs. Gave money to local charities, sports events, town clean-up operations. Started MS drives, 911 & tsunami donation events. Sent valued employees to Hawaii and such as rewards. Contributed money and computers to the local school. Attracted out of town business.

I'm sure Wal-mart can be evil in some areas but in our area they have been great. I may even get to see an iPod shuffle now before I buy and if it breaks I can return it for a new one the same day. Rather than waiting days and or weeks with mail order.

[BWhaler]

One other thought: I think Apple is hedging it's bets here.

The volume numbers, 50 per store, is suspiciously low.

I think Apple is building a relationship with Walmart, trying it out, and carefully monitoring the impact to the brand. And if they want to turn on huge volumes are the holidays, they have the largest retail channel to do so.

With so few iPods per store, one will rarely see an iPod at Walmart. It won't be perfect since Walmart will still advertise the fact they have iPods, but it won't be massive displays of iPods for sale along side laundry detergent.

It could be a good hedge bet.

[three60five]

Whatever happened to Steve's guiding directive of karma? Seems like some of the moves Apple is making these days (Pepsi, Wal-Mart, lawsuits) is going directly against his mantra espousing good karma. Is it only important for us consumers to obey the principles of good karma?

I, for one, have completely abandoned the iTMS because the line about good karma, after a little research, failed to be more than a marketing ploy. Plus, I've had nothing but headaches with the DRM. The price isn't even good. You can buy almost any physical cd for cheaper at half.com or on Amazon.

Let's face it. Apple isn't hurting. They don't need to sell the shuffle at Wal-Mart. It's sold more units than they can manufacture as is. I think this move is a mistake because as these comments show, people want more from Apple besides the biggest bottom line. We want a company with a moral compass and we are willing to pay for it.

[Brandon Sharitt]

But this hasn't happened, has it?

Apple has 90% of the market. Walmart has had dirt cheap ugly music players for years. You make your comments in the future tense as if Walmart, Kmart, the local malls, haven't had these players readily available.

It boils down to this: The iPod has become a fashion accessory. Articles in the New York times fashion section. "Which color mini did you choose?" A sea of white ear plug cords.

And people who pay a premium for things don't buy their fashion at Walmart.

It really is that simple.

Apple wants to make money, not sell a niche fashion accessory. Steve Jobs said the purpose of the Shuffle was to take on the low end flash market, a large chuck of the low end market comes from Wal-Mart and company.. If the iPod stays a high end fashion accessory Apple will lose out as the MP3 player market continues to grow.

[DPazdanISU]

Sold their soul to the Devil Apple did. Normally I’m not ravenously opposed to any one company on principle but Walmart is actually worse then Microsoft in terms of their business practices and how they treat their employees.
Normally I would be pro any choice Apple makes but I think this is a mistake. Best Buy, fine. Target, fine. CompUSA, fine. Circuit City, fine. Walmart. Not so fine.

I agree. Although Apple will have huge ipod shuffle profits teaming up with evil corporations(walmart). Seems like Apple has been doing this more and more lately....IBM.....Microsoft...Walmart....They all seem to be friends now :eek: Maybe Steve has an evil plan to buy them out and turn all the walmarts into giant Apple Stores :rolleyes:

[VicMacs]

Me?

liar

Me?

liar


its like saying you never used winblows...

pants on fire!

[swissmann]

I don't like Walmart much but I do think that if Apple wants to control the entire MP3 market this could be a very helpful step. Lots of people shop at walmart thinking they are getting the best price on everything. Lots of people think the iPod is the only way to go with MP3 players. Lots of people will buy an iPod at Walmart.

[dontmatter]

Wal-mart is a purveyor of cheap crap.

The shuffle was already risky enough, in that the concept of the ipod involves carrying the entire music collection, and involves high end style.

this is bad. Wal-mart is such ****.

[clayj]

Wow. I know of some Mac diehards (actual Cult of Steve members) who are going to be pissed about this... these are the sort of people who equate owning a Windows PC with shopping at Wal-Mart, swilling Bud, and tooling around town in a beat-up Ford Pinto. And now Apple products will be sold through Wal-Mart... huh.

As a longtime PC user and only recent Mac owner (Mac mini, and do I like it a lot, but I will not be Switching), I think this is pretty funny... especially as I haven't been in a Wal-Mart in several years (and will NEVER go in one again), I don't drink Bud, and I only tool around town in German cars. :)

[pubwvj]

Need I even mention that Walmart's music store doesn't support the iPod, or rather they use WMA? Funny how all these folks want a piece of the pie, but don't have the guts to take a stand against M$. Can't have it both ways kids.

Perhaps this is Wallymartz move to break away from the evil empire and see the light. In otherwords, maybe they'll start selling real MP3 music soon and offer Mac compatibility.

Luke, Luke, come back from the dark side!!!

[Brandon Sharitt]

Perhaps this is Wallymartz move to break away from the evil empire and see the light. In otherwords, maybe they'll start selling real MP3 music soon and offer Mac compatibility.

Luke, Luke, come back from the dark side!!!

I don't think compatibility with the Wal-Mart Music store is an issue since it's not just real big any way. People will buy their iPod Shuffle at Wal-Mart, install iTunes, and use it.

[leftbanke7]

Yes, I killed an Angel when the cashier rang me up.
I always thought it was poor Cambodian orphans that met their demise with every Wal-mart purchase.

[quackattack]

liar


its like saying you never used winblows...

pants on fire!

Sadly, I did shop there once or twice at one point. But that was before I was educated on their poor poor business practices. I haven't bought anything there in over 4 years, and I will NEVER EVER shop their again.

[LaMerVipere]

liar

liar

its like saying you never used winblows...

pants on fire!

Why am I a liar? I've never been to or shopped at WalMart. Deal with it. I'm not the only one.

[tex210]

I always thought it was poor Cambodian orphans that met their demise with every Wal-mart purchase.

Maybe I'm a little dark/mean but LOL

[Caveboy]

people will have more choices. Walmart did not destroy Microsoft by selling XBoxes or Sony by Selling PS2s!

Apple will be just fine.

[rdowns]

liar



liar


its like saying you never used winblows...

pants on fire!


Why would you call them liars?

I've never been to a WalMart in my life, nor a Sears. While neither is a force in my market (NYC-LI), there are a few around.

[EDIT] WalMart is opening a store near my office. I can easily see me shopping there for household stuff on the way home one night instead of wasting my Saturday mornings doing that.

[R3z]

Using the OPTION key & the 2 key together gives you the TM symbol, such as, in your case: "a Good Thing™".
™

I'll be damned. Thanks!

[diamacibal]

I have an inkling that the majority of posters here already own Apple products and will not shop at Wal-Mart for those products (regardless of whether or not they shop WM for other items). The point to understand are the people who do shop at Wal-Mart and whether the Apple brand will be enticing enough to go home with an iPod shuffle... to hook up to their $500 HP computer from Wal-Mart.

[R3z]

Hm. People are talking about middle America like it's some untapped vein of technophiles just waiting to snatch up the ipod. Somehow, I'm not sure Arkansas is the promise land of retail computing... :rolleyes:

[beatle888]

Wal-Mart could destroy Apple if it wanted to.



oh my god this thread is full of BS. you guys are so melodramatic.


wal-mart could destroy apple? what the ****.

[diamacibal]

People are talking about middle America like it's some untapped vein of technophiles just waiting to snatch up the ipod. Somehow, I'm not sure Arkansas is the promise land of retail computing...

Not too many people would have said the same about a lot of companies (i.e., Gateway) that got a start in the "heartland." One thing that has not been mentioned is the economic data Wal-Mart Corp. possesses for the entire nation; Wal-Mart knows better what people want and where than any other organization, public or private. If this deals goes through, it is because Wal-Mart knows it will be able to move the Apple product; Apple fanatics will have to resort to saying, "I was into the iPod before it was cool." The US cannot be divided up into urban=tech, rural=non-tech. There's a reason iPod TV ads have been airing nationwide.

[Mr.Bob]

Having just read through this whole thread, I would like to point out the obvious:

1). APPLE IS A FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION, STOCK LISTED OVER-THE-COUNTER, WITH EXCITING NEW CONSUMER PRODUCTS.
2). WAL-MART IS A FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION, LISTED ON THE NYE AND IS THE LARGEST RETAILER IN THE WORLD, SUPPORTED BY CONSUMERS IN AN INCREDIBLE WAY, RESULTING IN BILLIONS IN PROFITS EACH YEAR.
3). THE TWO COMPANIES HAVE ENTERED INTO A SYMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP.
4). EACH COMPANY WILL MAKE PROFITS FOR THEIR SHAREHOLDERS, THE RESULT NORMALLY WOULD BE ADDITIONAL PRODUCTS ADDED TO THE AGREEMENT.

Let's get real, this is a good deal for both companies. If it offends you individually, don't buy from Wal-Mart or Apple, in that case.....vote with you wallet.....however, you will certainly be in the vast minority.

[macnulty]

For those of you rant about the evil Walmart, did you ever stop to think how many people are employed by Walmart directly and through affliated companies indirectly? Granted stocking shelves doesn't pay the greatest but when did it ever. There are truck drivers, accountants, lawyers, assorted MBA's, salesman, buyers etc, etc, etc. As far as dealing with Walmart, they are no worse then most other companies I deal with. They are actually better then some of the big regional retailers, the big fish in the little pond companies who already squashed their competition in thier region. Every company in America puts price pressure on thier vendors. The vendors can resist with added value, lower their price or stand firm and take a chance, everyone in business knows this including Rubbermaid.

[ASP272]

Big marketing plus, but big image problem. The only way it helps the image is to say that Apple brand doesn't have to be all that expensive. They just better not EVER sell the Mini at Wally World. Target is one thing, at least they've got a sense of style and hipness to them, but Wal-Mart just doesn't have it. It will sell a lot of Shuffles though!

Maybe they'll have a commercial with Gingy from Shrek 2 jamming to his Shuffle (since it's actually small enough for him to carry). :eek:

[Sun Baked]

For those of you rant about the evil Walmart, did you ever stop to think how many people are employed by Walmart directly and through affliated companies indirectly? Granted stocking shelves doesn't pay the greatest but when did it ever. There are truck drivers, accountants, lawyers, assorted MBA's, salesman, buyers etc, etc, etc. As far as dealing with Walmart, they are no worse then most other companies I deal with. They are actually better then some of the big regional retailers, the big fish in the little pond companies who already squashed their competition in thier region. Every company in America puts price pressure on thier vendors. The vendors can resist with added value, lower their price or stand firm and take a chance, everyone in business knows this including Rubbermaid.Generally they aren't the best, nor are they the worst employer in the industry.

But their lowest prices, and their sheer size make them the biggest target in the industry. Heck, McDonalds is also the whipping boy of their industry... it's the price you pay for making it to number one.

---

This is good for Apple because they can immediately move a quarter of a million (or more) Shuffles into a retail channel for sale.

[Kagetenshi]

And to all the people out there bashing unions let me tell you something, if it wasn't for unions we wouldn't have the 8-hr work day. You would be working in some dank factory for 12 and 15 hours a day, making barely enough to live on. You would still have child-labor. What kind of sick person could uphold that type of work environment?

First, there's no guarantee that those reforms wouldn't have ended up in place anyway, but that's a question of devil's advocacy. The more important thing is that while unions have been a force for great good, they're now (and historically have been) extremely corrupt and barricades to progress. They're better than nothing in some cases, and Wal*Mart is one of those cases, but the unions are not unmitigated forces for good.

Leave the government out of it and let competition thrive.

If you leave the government out of it, corporations will naturally tend to kill competition through any means possible. It's just good business. Laissez-faire economics has been pretty thoroughly discredited.

In exemplum, Microsoft. If it didn't need Apple for the antitrust suits it would have been the natural and proper response to put them out of business, and in the mid 90s they could have. They would also have the power to dictate to PC hardware manufacturers as they wished, so they could kill Linux easily enough. Dethroning them would not take the gradual process it is taking now, but a concerted effort by businesses against their own best interests in both the short and medium terms with no guarantee of positive effects in the long term.

The free market will find a way and society is better and freer for it.

Spoken like someone who doesn't comprehend how ugly true freedom is.

VicMacs: I've never purchased anything from Wal*Mart or Sam's Club either, but of course I'm a "liar" as well.

~J

[autrefois]

Does anyone truly think they're going to convince anyone on the Wal-Mart issue?

I believe Wal-Mart is an evil company that is ruining America, actively trying to destroy local businesses and put them out of business, and paying paltry wages with limited benefits to its employees.

Other people believe that Wal-Mart provides opportunities for people, provides convenience and low prices, gives to charities, and as a for-profit business has the right to do just about anything it wants to make a profit.

What can I possibly say to convince them that Wal-Mart is bad? What could they say to convince me it isn't?

It would seem more useful to send our comments to Apple one way or the other. If enough people complain or praise this move, then it might affect future decisions like this.

Otherwise, I think we can try to figure out what affect this will have on Apple as a company, or where Apple might be try to go as a company. This seems like something people might change their minds about.

First Apple announces cheap (ahem, inexpensive/affordable) products, for the first time in their history basically. But now with a Wal-Mart partnership in addition to that, won't it really lower the prestige/coolness factor, as has already been mentioned? They don't sell Rolls Royces at Wal-Mart.

They're already making profits like crazy at Apple. Is Apple only concerned about marketshare and profit now? Are they slowly becoming another Dell?

I think Apple should definitely offer Apple quality at inexpensive prices, which I one of the reasons I love iPod shuffle and Mac mini. But now I really don't know what I think about all this....

[sushi]

Walmart sold Apple branded computers? No.
Uh, yes they did.

Sushi

[mojohanna]

Walmart put Rubbermaid out of business!!! They are assholes and will try to drive Apple to cheap labor. :mad:

Wrong, the american consumer drives demand. Demand is for cheap products. Walmart is just giving the customer what they want. Think about the juxtaposition (sp?) Consumer who most needs/wants Walmarts pricing is the one that is most likely effected by Walmarts demands for efficiencies and pricing. BTW, Rubbermaid is still in business AND Apple is already using cheap labor. When was the last time you saw made in america stamped on an Apple product.
I just don't get the Walmart bashing. My guess is that there are very few people, if given the choice, would pay $2.00 more for the same item at Kmart or another retailer. Keep in mind, its sourced from the same factory in China.
The problem is paying someone $30-$40/hour to change lightbulbs in a bathroom at a US factory. The chinese are willing to work for USD$.67 A DAY...................

[sushi]

They don't need to sell the shuffle at Wal-Mart. It's sold more units than they can manufacture as is.
It's called market expansion.

The MP3 market is still in it's infant stages. The market as a whole is expanding. Apple needs to expand with it to ensure that it continues to dominate.

Don't forget that there are plenty of manufacturers waiting in the wings to get a portion of the market should Apple stumble. Companies like Creative, RIO, iAudio, etc. Apple has to continue to push and expand the market to maintain/improve it's market share as the market expands.

Sushi

[macmessiah]

Now you can buy an iPod and help destroy America's economy at the same time! :o

yeah. and my level of respect for Apple just went down several notches. this is actually quite a disappointing move on Apple's part.

I mean, it's so hypocritical to have tsunami relief advertised when they make a deal with a company that takes advantage of those very same people, and don't think Target isn't the same.

The fact that Wal-Mart would sell them probably means that they are produced by means of sweatshop labor. I am very concerned for what this means for the rest of their product line. If this is true then I guess I'm just going to have to give up caring about the rest of the world and just live my ignorant life as an Apple user.

I'm very disappointed overall. But like Mr.Bob said, I am the minority.

[dejo]

Walmart is just giving the customer what they want.

So do drug dealers...

[billystlyes]

It's called market expansion.

The MP3 market is still in it's infant stages. The market as a whole is expanding. Apple needs to expand with it to ensure that it continues to dominate.

Don't forget that there are plenty of manufacturers waiting in the wings to get a portion of the market should Apple stumble. Companies like Creative, RIO, iAudio, etc. Apple has to continue to push and expand the market to maintain/improve it's market share as the market expands.

Sushi
If Target can sell the Shuffle so should Walmart. Will the PSP be sold at Walmart.........enough said!

[alandail]

While I am no fan of Walmart, in my town of 50,000 people there isn't a place to buy any Apple iPod. Staples and Radio Shack carry the hp ipods, but I don't think we will see a hp suffle. So this move would expand Apple's retail reach and exposure, which is a good thing.

This is exactly right. Where I live it's a 75 minute drive to an Apple Store. It's a 2 minute drive to a walmart. The Shuffle is priced for spur of the moment buying and they will sell more iPods this way. They'll also get more iPod music store customers this way. Apple has 70% of the market - they want to increase that percentage. They can't open Apple Stores everywhere. They can get Apple products into more areas though. I think it'd be great for Apple if they get the Mac Mini into these stores too. Make it easy for people to buy Apple products and more apple products get bought.

[Brandon Sharitt]

Hm. People are talking about middle America like it's some untapped vein of technophiles just waiting to snatch up the ipod. Somehow, I'm not sure Arkansas is the promise land of retail computing... :rolleyes:

A lot of those people currently have portable CD players, and believe it or not they have computers too. After cassette players you had cd players, and now we're getting into MP3 players. Wal-Mart wouldn't bother selling them. Apple wants market share, and they can't get it by ignoring a large portion of the m potential future market.

[alandail]

I think Apple should definitely offer Apple quality at inexpensive prices, which I one of the reasons I love iPod shuffle and Mac mini. But now I really don't know what I think about all this....

How does where it's sold impact the quality? Apple isn't makign a cheaper version for WalMart? It seems some people here are too elitist. I knew someone when CD players first came out who thought of themselvs as an audiophile. They said "normal people" shouldn't be allowed to buy a CD player because they wouldn't appreciated it. That's the same attitude I'm hearing from some posters here - sell it at walmart and it's junk because too many people will have one or can afford one? How about, change the world by making products both easy to use and affordable?

It seems some here would prefer that Apple stand buy and let MS take away their market instead of aggressively trying to maintain and grow their 70% market share in MP3 players and and at the same time grow their computer market share. How is the world a better place if Apple stays forever a niche player instead of using the iPod as leverage to turn the tide in the OS battle that many think was long ago lost? How is it a good thing if the millions of people who shop and WalMart and spur of the moment buy an MP3 player don't even have an iPod as a choice?

[diamacibal]

Big marketing plus, but big image problem. The only way it helps the image is to say that Apple brand doesn't have to be all that expensive. They just better not EVER sell the Mini at Wally World. Target is one thing, at least they've got a sense of style and hipness to them, but Wal-Mart just doesn't have it. It will sell a lot of Shuffles though!

As I've been saying: a lot of posters on this forum are afraid their cool products will no longer make them cool... "Yuck! You bought that at Wal-Mart?!?!"

[dejo]

How does where it's sold impact the quality? Apple isn't makign a cheaper version for WalMart?

But Wal-Mart is known for "influencing" the manufacturer into making a product cheaper or refusing to stock said item.

[the_mole1314]

Wal-Mart is the devil, Pepsi makes kids fat, Best Buy sucks stop selling iPods, blah blah blah. Get over it guys, Apple is making money, helping stocks, helping the Mac, helping everyone but PC people.

[sushi]

First Apple announces cheap (ahem, inexpensive/affordable) products, for the first time in their history basically. But now with a Wal-Mart partnership in addition to that, won't it really lower the prestige/coolness factor, as has already been mentioned?
This is not the first time that Apple has sold it's products through Walmart!

They sold computers/printers/monitors and software in the 90's.

While a new product, this is not a new relationship. Apple products rock. And now I can purchase them at more locations.

What's wrong with this?!

Sushi

[esta1701]

I don't know about anywhere else, but the Wal-Mart in Bellevue, Nebraska has been selling the iPod Mini and mini docks for a couple of weeks. I was quite surprised to see 2 silver mini's sitting poorly on a shelf with no tags or display unit to show them off. It looks like they were just put anywhere they would fit and stacked sloppy - a tearjerking sight for an Apple fan. They are being sold at the Apple UMRP of $249. It looks like Apple has had a deal long before the iPod Shuffle came out.

[alandail]

But Wal-Mart is known for "influencing" the manufacturer into making a product cheaper or refusing to stock said item.

If they actually do that, then complain. I don't see Steve Jobs letting anything like that happen myself. He'll pull the product before he does that.

Some people are just too negative I think - complaining about a problem that hasn't happened and isn't going to happen as long as Steve Jobs is at apple. As it is, there's not much more that they could cut out of an iPod snuffle. They already got rid of the display, firewire, click wheel, etc.

[xsnightclub]

Well from the sounds of some of the posts on this forum, about half the people here are going to sell their iPods on ebay and go out and buy dell Djs in defiance of the Wal-mart + Apple marketing agreement. After all you can't get a Dell at wal-mart so it must be cool.

Grow Up.

[quackattack]

The fact of the matter is that Wal-Mart is one of the most highly debated companies in the world. People are going to have extremely strong opinions either way, there is no point in getting super emotional.

That said my take is: If all you care about is the price (the vast majority) then Wal-Mart is great. If you are able to look at larger picture, then they are far from it. They destroy small town economies. Run smaller companies out of business that cannot compete on the basis of price. The bigger they get, the worse things are going to get. They put price pressure on their dealers, which contributes to outsourcing labor. Jobs are lost as a result, the empoyees of Wal-Mart are paid far less than is fair in many cases. Its not a good situation. As I said before, I will never shop there. But make up your own mind. A dollar or two here and their is a small price to pay.

Apple is a company I highly admire. I was sad to see them contribute to the growth of Wal-Mart, no matter how small a contribution.

[jbembe]

So relax, shop at Walmart. I do on the occassion. It's cool. It's just the wrong brand association for a company like Apple.

Maybe Apple is sick of having great brand associations at the expense of making any kind of significant impact on the computing world??

[AlanAudio]

Those of you who are adopting very polarised viewpoints might do well to step back and look at what the bigger picture might be.

There are two products involved here with knock-on effects too.

The iPod shuffle is the headline issue. It is designed to be more than mass-produced, perhaps we need a new expression …Hyper Produced.

The whole principle is to manufacture them in amazing numbers and sell them as fast as they can be made.

However the second product is the iTMS.

Apple currently sells the vast majority of hard disk music players and is shortly going to be by far the biggest seller of flash players too.

However when it comes to downloaded music, although Apple is way out in front, there are quite a few rivals who would hope to make inroads at Apple's expense.

If Apple ends up selling 90% of the flash players and 90% of hard disk players too, the other music stores can't possibly cover their costs and Apple will clearly own that market instead of Microsoft.

That can only happen if anybody anywhere can get an iPod over the counter in their own town.

Once Apple has seen off the rival music stores, there will be no arguments about which player won't play what file. There will be a de facto standard and Apple will be in a position where it can then licence AAC/FairPlay for other manufacturers to use in their own hardware.

When that stage is reached, the economics of scale transform the iTMS from being marginally profitable ( I suspect that it's currently being talked down by Apple ) into being a serious cash cow. Add to that the income from licensing other manufacturers hardware and the fact that those players will in turn buy more iTunes and you get to a situation where Apple doesn't need to create actual products in order to get a substantial income.

I'm not saying that Apple will stop making hardware of it's own, but it gives Apple the flexibility to move in whatever direction it wants.

In order to reach that point, iPods needs to be sold very widely indeed.

The increased exposure of Apple will help to sell other iPods and Mac computers.

Whatever your views of WalMart might be, it's hard to think of a major retailer better placed to sell millions of iPod shuffles in a short timescale.

This must be very worrying news for companies like Creative, who were bragging about taking on Apple this year.

[alandail]

so the argument against walmart is they negotiate with their suppliers to get better prices for their customers? Don't all companies do that? Doesn't Apple do the same thing when they negotiate prices on components like hard disks, cpus, RAM etc? If I go to WalMart and buy a hard disk for my computer, their negotiating saves me money. Anyone complaing about negative impact on the local economy - do you every buy products from Amazon, the Apple online store, the iTunes music store? How does that help your local economy?

[Redpoetsociety]

I wonder if this will help sell Shuffles? :p :cool:


YES!

I used to live in Fort walton beach Florida, where i learned that Wal-marts to middle america are the place where people(the whloe fam) like to hang out, and blow their (my family included) pay, welfare, and retirement checks. This should help move apple into the mainstream.

[Yvan256]

Hope this deal makes its way North to Canada, I have checked some of the local Electronic stores that carry Apple products and no sign of the Shuffle. :(

Consider yourself that you have local stores who carry Apple products... All we got here is Future Shop, and only iPods (no shuffle yet, but they've been announced and are listed on their website).

I don't want to drive to Montreal nor Quebec City simply to test-drive a Mac mini... :mad:

[asphalt-proof]

Apple most likely gave Wal-Mart preferential pricing for the shuffles. Wal-Mart could destroy Apple if it wanted to. In comparison, Apple is a drop in the bucket to Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart will set the price, Apple will have to follow.

I think its the other way around. Walmart probably went to Apple and for once was unable to dictate the termsof the agreement unlike what they do to their other suppliers. Apple has no need for Walmart. They have done alright with out them. I think that it does diminish the Apple brand. I go to Walmart to get trashbags and Twinkies.
Walmart stores are ugly, abusive to their employees, bully their suppliers, and yes, they do run out the local businesses because they undercut them in prices and cheap labor.

[diamacibal]

Grow Up.

So far the best point in seven pages and counting...

[dejo]

so the argument against walmart is they negotiate with their suppliers to get better prices for their customers?

No, the claim is they don't negotiate. They dictate. And the supplier must comply or risk losing Wal-Mart's business.

[Yvan256]

Now you can buy an iPod and help destroy America's economy at the same time! :o

Make that the whole planet's economy...

[moet_01]

I think there selling it for $392 with shipping its a little under 400 bucks

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3264564

[gorkonapple]

No, the claim is they don't negotiate. They dictate. And the supplier must comply or risk losing Wal-Mart's business.

They dictacte because they can. Walmart is one of the ones that does this but even Best Buy does the same thing. It's all about smart business now a days. When your one of the biggest retailers in the WORLD you SHOULD be able to decided what you sell and why. As a matter of fact, lots of smaller mom and pop grocery stores do the SAME thing.....except they vote with thier wallet. If they can't get the price they want, no matter, someone else will give them the price. Retailers in general have the power here. Not just Walmart.

[narco]

I still believe the iPod and Walmart deal will hurt Apple's reputation. It doesn't mean that I will go out and trade my iPod because it isn't "cool" anymore, but a lot of people will. I heard one person saying that they'd rather the shuffle come with black earbuds instead of the white ones so you can seek out those who have the "real" iPod and those who have the "cheap" one. Childish? Very. But isn't that how things go?

It's kind of like hip-hop slang. (To some people) It's cool at first, but when the Christian white republicans (mid-America) start using it, people stop saying the words and turn to something new.

Sure Apple will sell shuffles like hotcakes, and isn't that the whole point of running a business?

Fishes,
narco.

[Lacero]

How can it hurt Apple's reputation when half of middle america has never even heard of Apple? Apple innovation will finally be experienced by the masses. It doesn't hurt Apple's reputation in the least. Yet another reply to an inane posting.

[Steven1621]

i'm really not keen on the idea of apple doing business with evil walmart personally.

[CompUSAMacNerd]

IMHO, Walley-World or Wal-Mart, Sells inferior products, at least thats the mindset... whether you buy something at Wal-Mart, and save a few, I'd much rather give Best-Buy, Ultimate Electronics, or heaven forbid CompUSA (Mac User Hell imo) at least then I feel like i'm giving my money to people who've earned it not some faceless corporation like Wal-Mart... if Wal-Mart sells I won't buy... (iPod Shuffle not switch to PC)...

Wal-Mart=Cheap (and onry)

Apple=High Quality products for reasonable price (for me at least)

-Aldaris

Not all the CompUSA"s are bad you know. I work in one of the Northern California stores and I work the apple section. I have a huge and loyal customer base and we have strong apple sales and marketing. Lord forbid you walk into a CompUSA that has /constant/ Apple supplies and doesn't dick you like Best buy and sells then WHEN THEY WANT TO. Lets see, they ****ed up /again/ with Apple by not selling their machines. Where's the G5's and Powerbooks at? *gasp* They are gone. Wonder why? Their salesmen here at the BB in town says: We refuse to sell apple because we don't make any money off them and their gross margin, our MANAGERS told us to sell HP's and Sony's because the store makes more money and it keeps them off our back if we hit our goals.

Wow. At least here in CompUSA, long as you buy something, we're happy.

Don't think that all CompUSA"s out there suck, its not true. We're like /any/ other retailer out there. We got a plan, a goal, we may or may not be the best, but, whatever.. its called business. Its the real world. You can't make everyone happy. Even McDonald's forgets I don't want pickles on my burger once in awhile and I don't get mad and throw a fit against the entire company. :P

[xsnightclub]

I still believe the iPod and Walmart deal will hurt Apple's reputation. It doesn't mean that I will go out and trade my iPod because it isn't "cool" anymore, but a lot of people will.

Because Wal-mart selling Sony products has destroyed their image, not the last time I checked. Sony is selective about the products it provides to wal-mart for resale in order to maintain some control over the higher end products. However, the sony selection at wal-mart has been growing over the last few years.

I beleive Apple can follow the same example and maintain its public image as Sony has. Sony even has Sony Style stores similar to Apple stores.

[AirUncleP]

I wonder if this will help sell Shuffles? :p :cool:

With a 3 week wait online? Maybe in a year.

[jnasato]

Will be interesting to see Apple in WalMart... but eeew...

[alandail]

With a 3 week wait online? Maybe in a year.

or maybe in 3 weeks

[AirUncleP]

(say with a twang)

Hey Honey!!! Check out this Jeff Gordon signed music thingy!!!!

Think about it Apple it could be big.

[billystlyes]

It would be cool if all the senior's that are door greeters at Wallyworld, wore the Shuffle with the lanyard!

[Lacero]

Yep, Wal-Mart has ruined the reputations of P&G, GE, Duracell, Kleenex, Tide, Colgate, Pepsi and Coke, Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, BASF, etc, etc.

[nagromme]

I'm sure the Wal-Mart deal is good for Apple. More sales, more halo effect, and ultimately, a good thing for the Mac platform.

I'm just sorry it's good for Wal-Mart too.

Brand association is a non-issue I think... Apple seems to be increadingly nimble and trying new things now, including new markets and new audiences. All good. The "traditional" Apple markets don't suffer for that.

As for Wal-Mart bullying Apple... Apple can always dump them. No harm in trying to work with Wal-Mart--if it doesn't work out, then don't send them any more.

(It's possible to be anti-Wal-Mart without being anti-Apple.)

[HiRez]

Selling out my ass. If you think Apple was ever anything other than a for profit business practicing the same tactics you complain about, you're delusional. The 1984 big brother ad, marketing, pure and simple. Think Different- damn straight, we need to sell some computers and very few are buying them.I completely disagree with you. I work with just about every major Silicon Valley company (Oracle, HP/Compaq, IBM, Cisco, 3Com, eBay, and more), and the people and the culture on the Apple campus are different. No, it's not as wild as the early days of the Mac. It's more structured and corporate, but everything there still embodies a sense of free-thinking creativity that on other campuses is simply not found, or is found to a lesser extent (eBay is pretty cool too, though). You'll never see Larry Ellison eating in the Oracle cafeteria, but I do see Steve Jobs eating at the Apple cafeteria all the time. And Jobs is a true Liberal who is not afraid to say so publicly, unlike most of the Bush Crime Family suck-up C.E.O.s I encounter nowadays. Whether Apple morphs into another corporation bent on moving the maximum number of units instead of making great products, no one knows. They aren't doing that yet but I see some disturbing signs. Hopefully they can move units and create great products but those two things seems to be at odds with each other for a lot of other companies. At Apple, they still think about the people who will be using their products, and I hope it stays that way.

[nagromme]

Not all the CompUSA"s are bad you know.

My CompUSA is nearly as good as a real Apple Store. All the latest stuff on display ASAP, running cool demos, with knowledgeable staff envouraging you to play. Two other CompUSA's I have visited briefly seemed almost as good. I know CompUSA has some problems with Apple stuff early on, but I'd guess that's all years-old-news by now.

And a CompUSA store-in-a-store is BETTER than an Apple Store in one regard... it's an Apple Store in the middle of PC-Land!

[icesiren2002]

Sorry to see this. As far as I (and I see many other posters) feel, Walmart is a bad place to sell any Apple products. I refuse to shop there for the reasons that many have stated. I live on the VT/NH border, and when VT refused to let Wally World build in the town across the river from me, they built in my town-in NH. We were an "easy mark", as my town is small, blue collar, and tax-base hurting. The next thing we know, besides losing a formally beautiful piece of land at the base of a mountain, was a STINK coming from the area. Apparently WM didn't do what they were supposed to in putting in their septic system. They had the gall to ask VT to take their excess waste-LOL!
Now, in the warmer months, the area smells to high heaven-I don't think they ever dealt with the problem in an environmentally proper way.
I shop at an Apple reseller over the boarder. The staff is knowledgeabe and friendly-try to find anyone at Wally world who knows ANYTHING about the products they sell! To see them selling any Apple products, taking away from the local friendly reseller (as they do to so many local businesses) is so very unfortunate. I see so many people so concerned with the cents off they get there, without realizing the real cost.
When I got an Apple loan for education, I told them I was so sorry to see that the loan was administered by MBNA-another totally RANK company. I did not want to see Apple associated with such slimey corporations. When checking lately, I was glad to see MBNA no longer has such a relationship for the education loans. Don't know the reason why, but I'm happier. :p
Sure hope Apple re-thinks this move. Associations with cruddy companies sullies the Apple rep.

[absolut_mac]

I'm sure the Wal-Mart deal is good for Apple. More sales, more halo effect, and ultimately, a good thing for the Mac platform.

I'm just sorry it's good for Wal-Mart too.

Brand association is a non-issue I think... Apple seems to be increadingly nimble and trying new things now, including new markets and new audiences. All good. The "traditional" Apple markets don't suffer for that.

As for Wal-Mart bullying Apple... Apple can always dump them. No harm in trying to work with Wal-Mart--if it doesn't work out, then don't send them any more.

(It's possible to be anti-Wal-Mart without being anti-Apple.)

Succinctly put!

I can't believe that this story got so many negative ratings. I agree with nagromme, it can only be good for both companies in the long term.

[Lacero]

If you were a supplier to Wal-Mart, do you know how lucky you can be to have an account with them? All this negativity makes me want to jump to my death, as I realize most people here don't know diddly.

[BWhaler]

Apple wants to make money, not sell a niche fashion accessory. Steve Jobs said the purpose of the Shuffle was to take on the low end flash market, a large chuck of the low end market comes from Wal-Mart and company.. If the iPod stays a high end fashion accessory Apple will lose out as the MP3 player market continues to grow.

You're missing the point of how luxury items work. And premium brands.

Apple IS making a ton of money. And the iPod is a desirable object which costs a premium. Adding the Walmart brand on it hurts this.

If you are confused still, do a google search of Izod Lacosse. This is the perfect story.

For those of you old enough to remember this, once upon a time Izod and Polo were the two competing brands at the clothing high end. Polo stayed exclusive, doing store within stores at top tier department stores, kept their prices high, etc. Izod put their wares everywhere and lowered their prices to be more afordable.

Who won? Polo.

When everyone and their sister had the little aligator, nobody wanted it.

Now, back to you post. Did Polo not make money because they didn't do deals with Walmart and Kmart? No. They actually made billions more.

It's brand.

[itsa]

I think this is GREAT! It really sucks to such a big Apple fan and not be able to buy it anywhere other than online. At least you know Walmart won't screw you on returns.

[beatle888]

You're missing the point of how luxury items work. And premium brands.

Apple IS making a ton of money. And the iPod is a desirable object which costs a premium. Adding the Walmart brand on it hurts this.

If you are confused still, do a google search of Izod Lacosse. This is the perfect story.

For those of you old enough to remember this, once upon a time Izod and Polo were the two competing brands at the clothing high end. Polo stayed exclusive, doing store within stores at top tier department stores, kept their prices high, etc. Izod put their wares everywhere and lowered their prices to be more afordable.

Who won? Polo.

When everyone and their sister had the little aligator, nobody wanted it.

Now, back to you post. Did Polo not make money because they didn't do deals with Walmart and Kmart? No. They actually made billions more.

It's brand.


i think your analogy is a little flawed. the shuffle is like bubble gum to apple. its not one of their luxury items...its throw away. its ment for the masses not as an item only for a chosen few. but i see what your trying to say. i just think that apples quality will stand on its own. wal-mart isnt going to hurt apple. or at least thats MY opinion.

[narco]

Because Wal-mart selling Sony products has destroyed their image, not the last time I checked. Sony is selective about the products it provides to wal-mart for resale in order to maintain some control over the higher end products. However, the sony selection at wal-mart has been growing over the last few years.

I beleive Apple can follow the same example and maintain its public image as Sony has. Sony even has Sony Style stores similar to Apple stores.

... and because Sony has such a great reputation as of late.

Fishes,
narco.

[narco]

Yep, Wal-Mart has ruined the reputations of P&G, GE, Duracell, Kleenex, Tide, Colgate, Pepsi and Coke, Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, BASF, etc, etc.

You don't understand. You can hardly compare Colgate with Apple.

Fishes,
narco.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally Posted by VicMacs
now seriously, who here has NOT bought something at wal-mart?


Me. I've never even been inside a Walmart and AFAIC it will stay that way.

Edit: OK. That's not totally true. Mom took me to Walmart when I was a kid. But since then not once. I think the last time was in the 80's or something. Suffice it to say that I personally have NEVER purchased anything at Walmart. When comparison shopping I don't even add them to the equation. I’d sooner spend an extra $5,10,20 bucks if it means not supporting a company that has a craptastic rep.

PS- As for those small towns Walmart has saved. I’m glade they came in and saved you guys. But it doesn’t negate the fact that they have driven their competition in some of those same small towns out of business. Example. Walmart vs. ShopKo in a small town in southern MN. Walmart slashed and slash prices well undercutting their competition, they matched and beat every sale they had and the ultimate kicker? Guess where those laid off workers ended up going? In the end they simply couldn't compete against them basically killing ShopKo. Guess what they did with their prices as soon as they went out of business. Not hard to imagine. Just take a guess. My grandmother saw this first hand.

PPS- There is a bright side to all of this. Target picked up where ShopKo left off. Time will tell if they take them down a peg.

[relimw]

i'm really not keen on the idea of apple doing business with evil walmart personally.

Then it's prolly a good thing Steve didn't ask you then. Huh? :)

[relimw]

Yep, Wal-Mart has ruined the reputations of P&G, GE, Duracell, Kleenex, Tide, Colgate, Pepsi and Coke, Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, BASF, etc, etc.

I'm sorry, how have they ruined them? They're all good brands (except Pepsi, ick).

[mac n cheese]

Rip on Wal-Mart all you want, it's an easy target to gripe about.

The truth is, WalMart treats its customers great, and given the choice to buy a Shuffle at Wally's or the Apple Store, I wouldn't even consider the Apple Store.

I have gotten nothing but hassle in the past when I had problems with Apple products at the Apple Store.

Out of a dozen or so items I may have taken back to Wal-Mart over the years, not a single time have I even been asked questions, they gladly give you a new one. Even when I thought they should have refused it, the customer is still right. They love their customers.

I don't think Wal-Mart employees would fare well selling other Apple products, but Shuffles are no brainers. Way to go Apple for bagging a deal with the giant. Maybe Apple will learn a few things about service from the "Evil" Wal-Mart. It's no accident the Waltons took over the globe, people keep coming back. I do. And no... I don't live in a trailer :)

[mojohanna]

So do drug dealers...
Last time I checked, it was not illegal to sell consumer goods.... c'mon little bit stronger argument here.

[jbembe]

... and because Sony has such a great reputation as of late.

Fishes,
narco.

Why are we baggin Sony now? Didn't they show up at the latest Apple expo. Aren't there interesting possibilities between Apple and Sony? Just because they can't make an MP3 player doesn't mean much about everything else they sell.

[jbembe]

I have gotten nothing but hassle in the past when I had problems with Apple products at the Apple Store.


Woah there. I have had the absolute best experience in Apple stores. In Dallas, there were two, here (just moved) in Madison=zero. In Dallas, I had 3 iPods returned and replaced with brand new ones in the Apple store for a problem as simple as the earphone jack being slightly cracked such that the remote wouldn't work. In Madison, I spent a week trying to find a second hand retailer that would help figure out what to do with an iPod that I fell on while biking. The best I could find either by calling Apple and speaking to somebody there or in a non-Apple retailer was that since it was a month out of warranty that I'd have to eat 250$ for a replacement. Finally, I took it in to an Apple store in Chicago, and after figuring out it wouldn't work they handed me a new one- SAME DAY. I haven't heard of that kind of customer service before this- I mean they replace an iPod that I crushed and that was out of warranty!!!!!

[alandail]

Again, I ask to everyone who taking a stand against WalMart hurting local economies by coming in and giving consumers lower prices, have you ever ordered anything at all online - from Apple, from Amazon, etc? If so, isn't that being a bit hypocritical?

[xsnightclub]

Why are we baggin Sony now? Didn't they show up at the latest Apple expo. Aren't there interesting possibilities between Apple and Sony? Just because they can't make an MP3 player doesn't mean much about everything else they sell.

So far only one person has been trash talking Sony, and has been using it to prop up his petty illogical points against the wal-mart deal.

[relimw]

Big marketing plus, but big image problem. The only way it helps the image is to say that Apple brand doesn't have to be all that expensive. They just better not EVER sell the Mini at Wally World. Target is one thing, at least they've got a sense of style and hipness to them, but Wal-Mart just doesn't have it. It will sell a lot of Shuffles though!


Actually, I think it's very likely that Apple would be adding the Mini to their agreement with Walmart if things go well with the Shuffle. It meets the price point for a lot of people who either don't own a computer yet, or who are upgrading from hand-me-down systems.

Most high and mighty mac users seem to think that everybody has $2-3k to blow on a new computer. Obviously, those people having been smoking something that distorts reality ;)

[relimw]

Just a side note on the 'Walmart is evil' side thread. Unionized people are some of the most lazy, worthless people I've come across. No offense to anyone here, I'm refering only to those that I have personally met. I work some days in the 12-14 hour range (some weeks 70+ hours), including holidays and weekends, and all I hear is 'Oh my god, my boss made me work an extra 30mins today! I nearly died from all that extra work!'. And people wonder why the government runs at such a slow pace. Oh, and before you slam my employer, no, I don't work for any major corporation that gives their employees big fat 401ks for retirement or stock options. I work for a mom & pop business.

Enter reality and get off your highhorse, Apple makes all their products overseas, why do you think the label says 'Designed in Cupertino'?

[happydollie]

Sam's Club had started selling the iPod and iPod Minis in the store last December. They were all sold out in the store within a week. They were in kits then. I can't remember exactly what came with them.. but as most things Sam's Club sells.. the price is a little bit higher but after you add in what you would normally spend for everything you get, it comes out even or sometimes less. Right now the iPod is $379 and the iPod Mini is $244. As far as Walmart.. I don't necessarily hate Walmart, but I choose not to shop there anymore. Target is much closer to my home and is alot less busy.

[narco]

Why are we baggin Sony now? Didn't they show up at the latest Apple expo. Aren't there interesting possibilities between Apple and Sony? Just because they can't make an MP3 player doesn't mean much about everything else they sell.

I'm not trash-talking Sony, I'm just stating facts. Did they not just apologize for how they've been running things lately?

Fishes,
narco.

[~loserman~]

Enter reality and get off your highhorse, Apple makes all their products overseas, why do you think the label says 'Designed in Cupertino'?

Preach it baby Preach it!!!!

Apple is no different than any other for profit company. Except for their CEO... He seems to be more of Dictator than most I have known. He also for some reason exudes a reality distortion field when he speaks.

The Walmart and Best Buy deals are great news for Apple...
Think about it. More exposure usually translates to more sales.
More sales. More profits. More profits lower prices. More profits More products.
So Mac zealots get over it.

[gorkonapple]

Walmart stores are ugly,


Subjective. I think they are nice, if a bit on the cheap side with thier signage...not as cheap as Ames used to be.


abusive to their employees


PROOF? I have seen this at least two or three times in this thread. If your talking about a couple pending lawsuits, remember those are not settled yet to my knowledge. Also, with as large as Walamrt is, it would not surprise me in the least to have a few bad apple(sorry, no other word fits) managers that abuse the system. This should not be a blanket judgement of the company. I shop at several area Walmarts and not once have I heard anyone complain about the company. In fact, I had friends I used to work with at Meijer (which in my area is a Union Store) who went to Walmart because they paid better and did not put up with the crap Meijer did with thier union workers. Plus they had no union dues! The ones who I saw pulling the Union card at Meijer were all lazy slobs who would never work as hard as I or many others did.


bully their suppliers


Again, all companies ask their suppliers to get better prices. We'd be paying an arm and a leg if Walmart and others did not do this. Walmart tends to proove to their suppliers that while the supplier gets less per unit, they can make up for that in volume many times larger then their nearest competitor.


and yes, they do run out the local businesses because they undercut them in prices and cheap labor.

I have not seen a local business close unless they deserved to be closed. There are many times when I have seen mom and pop specialty stores close down because they mismanaged things to the point that when Walmart moved in, there was no chance they could catch them. Case in point, there's a ton of other businesses in almost every neighborhood that has a Walmart in my town that have not all closed down. The only one that is in any danger of closing is the Kroger operating next to my local Walmart. If Walmart moves in a superstore (expand the existing store to a super), then they MAY go downhill. I personally have not seen one valid point where Walmart has forced local business to close. What did the Walmart police come down on them? No. They just could not compete price wise. When you are at that point, you must compete in other ways. Take a mom and pop grocery. Sure, you can't compete on regular groceries, but what happens if you go organic? What happens if you start carrying things the Walmart does not carry? You CAN still survive against the goliath. How does Apple survive against Wintel???

I also do not think Apple selling iPod Shuffles at Walmart will degrade or reduce the brand. What about HP, Sony, or Epson? They are all still good brands. Sure, now others can buy them. Staying exclusive is not the way to make money in a down economy like we have now. Also, look at the largest companies in the world of which Walmart is one of them....they all sell products that people can afford. All anyone who hates this idea is concerned about is that thier Apple Mac's and iPods aren't cool any more. I personally don't think that staying exclusive is how Apple wants to be. Case in point, Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak both had an idea about computers. They wanted everyone to have one and not just the rich. The Apple II was the peoples computer as was the Mac. Steve Jobs is still very much that way. If he was into the exclusivity, he would not have signed off on the Shuffle or Mac Mini projects. He wants to prove that the smaller company can take down the giant, Microsoft. Before that, the giant was IBM. The only way to do this now is to start selling the cheaper models where they will sell, Walmart, Sam's Club and Target. The iPod most be doing well at Target otherwise they would not have been on the list to sell the Shuffle. Plus for a brief instance, they were going to sell the Mac Mini at Target. Incredible. Anyone ever remember seeing computers at Target yet? I sure as heck haven't. The Mac Mini was the first. If done with a logical business plan, the low end Apple stuff should sell quite well in both Target and Walmart and I believe that's a good thing for all of us, Apple, Walmart, Target and Mac fans. I would love to see the Mac supplant Microsoft. I think they can do it. Just look.....even the Xbox Next is going to be powered by a PowerPC chip. I'd say the PowerPC line itself is growing leaps and bounds thanks to Apple, IBM and Motorola.

[~loserman~]

Again, all companies ask their suppliers to get better prices. We'd be paying an arm and a leg if Walmart and others did not do this. Walmart tends to proove to their suppliers that while the supplier gets less per unit, they can make up for that in volume many times larger then their nearest competitor.

Exactly


I have not seen a local business close unless they deserved to be closed. There are many times when I have seen mom and pop specialty stores close down because they mismanaged things to the point that when Walmart moved in, there was no chance they could catch them. They just could not compete price wise. When you are at that point, you must compete in other ways. Take a mom and pop grocery. Sure, you can't compete on regular groceries, but what happens if you go organic? What happens if you start carrying things the Walmart does not carry? You CAN still survive against the goliath. How does Apple survive against Wintel???

This is what competition is all about. And Competion is always good for consummers. Only unfair competition is bad( i.e. dumping ... like the Japanease did to the electronics industry... And using monopolistic practices like Micro$oft did to many others)Walmart's is Huge but not a monopoly and they beat there competion by lower prices. They dont then turn around and sale their products for higher prices. So I contend they are good for consummers


I also do not think Apple selling iPod Shuffles at Walmart will degrade or reduce the brand. What about HP, Sony, or Epson? They are all still good brands. Sure, now others can buy them. Staying exclusive is not the way to make money in a down economy like we have now. Also, look at the largest companies in the world of which Walmart is one of them....they all sell products that people can afford. All anyone who hates this idea is concerned about is that thier Apple Mac's and iPods aren't cool any more.

I believe you have hit the nail on the head here.


I personally don't think that staying exclusive is how Apple wants to be. Case in point, Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak both had an idea about computers. They wanted everyone to have one and not just the rich. The Apple II was the peoples computer as was the Mac. Steve Jobs is still very much that way. If he was into the exclusivity, he would not have signed off on the Shuffle or Mac Mini projects. He wants to prove that the smaller company can take down the giant, Microsoft. Before that, the giant was IBM. The only way to do this now is to start selling thTe cheaper models where they will sell, Walmart, Sam's Club and Target.

Agree

[macidiot]

liar



liar


its like saying you never used winblows...

pants on fire!

I've never shopped at walmart either.

[macidiot]

Yeah, but Best Buy? Target? Only one of each in my city, but we somehow have 4 Walmarts, not including 2 Sam's Club stores. They may have the same business practices, but I don't see Best Buy destroying the local economy.

Fishes,
narco.

Umm, where the hell are these 4 walmarts? I'm in l.a. and as far as I know, the closest one I've seen was in Monrovia or something...about 30 miles from me. Hardly worth the trip. Then again, I don't get up to the valley that often...

[CTerry]

Wal*Mart are only selling it, it's not like it's a partnership! Geeze, does it matter where Apples products are sold just as long as they get sold? Wal*Mart sells loads of different companys products and it doesn't change a thing!

[narco]

Umm, where the hell are these 4 walmarts? I'm in l.a. and as far as I know, the closest one I've seen was in Monrovia or something...about 30 miles from me. Hardly worth the trip. Then again, I don't get up to the valley that often...

It's not in Burbank where I currently live, but in a different part of southern California where I am from and where my parents currently live. About a hour drive north east of L.A.

Fishes,
narco.

[cantthinkofone]

.....This is what competition is all about. And Competion is always good for consummers. Only unfair competition is bad( i.e. dumping ... like the Japanease did to the electronics industry... And using monopolistic practices like Micro$oft did to many others)Walmart's is Huge but not a monopoly and they beat there competion by lower prices. They dont then turn around and sale their products for higher prices. So I contend they are good for consumers...

Like i said in my other post on this topic. Any one that says anything positive or supportive about Wal-mart works for them in some way, and has wal-mart sitting on their shoulder 24 hours a day, 365.

We had a few VERY good mom and pop shops here where i live before wal-mart came to town. And they were very well managed and ran. But they couldn't not compete with wal-mart when every one started go there, and a few people came to them a week. They closed after 2 years when wal-mart came.

Did any one besides me watch that program on PBS "Is wal-mart good for America?" A very good hour of TV. They had plenty of people from wal-mart, ex-employes, over seas employes, ex-over seas employes.

Then just the other day, i was talking to a older gentleman and the topic changed to wal-mart. He told me about how a life long friend of his had died, and he had worked at wal-mart the last ten or so years of his life. And his wife went to cash in on the life insurance to pay all the bills, And the thing that got me was when he told me that Wal-Mart was one of the beneficiaries on the life insurance plan. The widower never knew of this, Wal-Mart never told her family of this.

Do other companies do this? I dont know of any that do.

[blybug]

Wow. A Walmart apologist. Here at Macrumors. Amazing.

Walmart sold Apple branded computers? No

<deleted>....

So relax, shop at Walmart. I do on the occassion. It's cool. It's just the wrong brand association for a company like Apple.
Walmart absolutely postitively 100% sold Macs up unitl the iMac/Jobs era. They carried several of the all-in-one Performa models such as the Performa 5400 (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_performa/stats/mac_performa_5400cd.html) I bought there for my sister in 1996 (still working and in occasional use, by the way). I used to always stop by the Mac section and fix up the half-booted extension-conflicted System 7's and fix the hard drives that were always renamed ,,,,,,,,,,gggh

Maybe many of the members on this board only joined the Mac club since Apple has become considered a "premium" or niche product. But that was certainly not the intention of Jobs & Wozniak when they built the computer "for the rest of us." They wanted "the rest of us" to buy a Mac and 10-15 years ago just about ANYWHERE that sold computers including tacky old Walmart sold both Macs and PCs. Nobody back then thought that Macs were "too good" to be sold anywhere...and I was always happy to be able to go into any store (Walmart, Sears, BestBuy, mom&pop computer shop) and be able to buy a new machine, peripheral, or software. Got very frustrating since the late 90s when the closest place is 35 miles away and sucks (CompUSA) with an Apple Store 50 miles away. Now I buy online or from catalogs.

The idea that Apple desires to be a "niche" company with only high-end marketshare and accessibility is ridiculous. I'm certain that Apple didn't become too good for Walmart...it was sadly quite the other way around. As the personal computer revolution boomed in the mid 90s, the "rest of us" Apple was aiming for bought PCs because they were cheaper and had already established themselves in most people's workplace, so PCs were what they were familiar with. Why should Walmart, Sears, and mom&pop continue to waste shelf space on computers nobody was buying anymore?

It's taken Jobs the better part of a decade to rebuild Apple into a company that again has the brand recognition and exciting products that are slowly making their way back into the Targets, Sears, BestBuys, and Walmarts. So far it's just the iPod family, but why would Apple or its stockholders or its supposed fanatics on this board want anything less than for Apple to have its computers back on the shelves where people can see them, find them, and buy them in order to make a dent in the Windows PC market?

Kind of conflictual, hypocritical, and ignoring the facts of history. Walmart and MANY other ordinary stores used to sell Macs, and despite the debatable corporate tactics of this store, if there is demand and they think they will sell, Walmart will sell Macs again.

[hulugu]

A deal with the devil. Everyone knows you can't buy anything "cool" at Walmart. I don't think this is good news.

Fishes,
narco.

I agree, Walmart is too much of an extension, once you see something at Walmart or Old Navy it is on its way out.
Besides, I can't stand Walmart.

[hulugu]

This is what competition is all about. And Competion is always good for consummers. Only unfair competition is bad( i.e. dumping ... like the Japanease did to the electronics industry... And using monopolistic practices like Micro$oft did to many others)Walmart's is Huge but not a monopoly and they beat there competion by lower prices. They dont then turn around and sale their products for higher prices. So I contend they are good for consummers...

Walmart has always failed in true competition, which is to offer the customer a better prodcut for less money. Walmart offers cheap crap—for the most part—for low prices. Everything I've bought there that wasn't a specific name-brand was worthless. The stores are souless and boring—we can talk about Target, etc. also—and Walmart often pays its workers as little as possible; hedges on their benefits (if any); locks employees in their stores, demands workers stay late without overtime; crushes small-town businesses that are well-run and well-established; and doesn't help the local economies it absorbs; Walmart also tries to enforce 'family-values' on CDs and books and has demanded that several classic books be released in 'abridged' versions. And, their prices aren't any better than what can be had locally, in small local stores run by people you know who produce things because of their knowledge and love.
Walmart rarely lowers prices, takes away from the local economy, is a mediocre employer at best, and has eliminated diversification in those local economies.
I wish Apple would stay away from Walmart.

[clayj]

You could condense all of what 'hulugu' said to three simple words:

Wal-Mart is crap.

[autrefois]

How does where it's sold impact the quality?

I never said it did. I said it would affect the "prestige/coolness" factor. Please re-read my post.

It seems some people here are too elitist.

I completely agree! Oh wait, are you referring to me? :)

I only brought up Rolls Royce, if that's what you're referring to, because the car analogy is often brought up on the forum. I personally don't care about the prestige factor of Apple, although it is nice having people think that I have cool stuff.

That's the same attitude I'm hearing from some posters here - sell it at walmart and it's junk because too many people will have one or can afford one?

Some people seem to imply this, but I don't think my post did and that's certainly not how I feel.

How about, change the world by making products both easy to use and affordable?

Or as I put it, "I think Apple should definitely offer Apple quality at inexpensive prices, which I one of the reasons I love iPod shuffle and Mac mini." I just think now that that wasn't their main motivation is all. I think gaining marketshare was their motivation. Does that make the iPod shuffle and Mac mini any less good? No, it just changes my attitude about Apple and where they may be going as a company.

How is it a good thing if the millions of people who shop and WalMart and spur of the moment buy an MP3 player don't even have an iPod as a choice?

At the risk of getting a barrage of hegative reactions to this, I will say that it's rarely a good thing when anyone spur-of-the-moment buys something, especially something that costs $100 (or whatever the whistling smiley face will price it at). I hope that if people do buys iPod shuffles at Wal-Mart, it will at least be a somewhat educated choice, knowing Apple (generally) means quality.

I already said why I would rather Apple not deal with Wal-Mart. I feel:
* Wal-Mart destroys communities and gives its employees bad benefits and pay
* Wal-Mart is not cool, whereas Apple (in the eyes of many) is or was

Others, including you, have given their point of view:
* Apple will reach a wider audience with Wal-Mart
* Wal-Mart is only doing what any business would do in its place and offers good prices

I think we're both right, so there's no use arguing.

This is not the first time that Apple has sold it's products through Walmart!

They sold computers/printers/monitors and software in the 90's.

I'm aware of this. That's why I never said it was the first time Apple sold anything through Wal-Mart. It would also be interesting to see when in the 90s this was: was this when Apple was in dire straits?

While a new product, this is not a new relationship.
Okay, let's call it the rekindling of an old/dead relationship then.

Apple products rock. And now I can purchase them at more locations.

What's wrong with this?!

I don't know. Ask Steve.

I think Steve Jobs put it well in 2002. From the Mac Observer (http://www.macobserver.com/article/2002/07/22.7.shtml) in 2002:

<< Apple [...] earlier in the week was reporting drab financial results. Jobs blames the economy. "I'd rather be us than some of the other guys out there," he says. "It's only us and Dell making money [among computermakers]. They're making money because they're Wal-Mart, we're making it because we're innovating."" >>

Apparently Steve Jobs used to think Wal-Mart was a bad thing...

[dejo]

Do other companies do this? I dont know of any that do.

The last company I worked at wanted to get a life insurance policy on me to the tune of $5 million. (This was a few years ago when they had tons of money; other "superstars" had similar, if not higher, coverage amounts) But the sole beneficiary was the company, no family allowed. I thought this was too creepy and told them I wouldn't allow it.

[Lacero]

Corporations' sole purpose for existence is profit before all else. If it means destroying the fabric of america or causing lost manufacturing jobs to cheap overseas labor, or if it means exploiting the workforce of middle america, you can be sure corporations are at fault. Since corporations are treated as a person under US laws, they can get away with owning other companies and have all the rights afforded by a person. Corporations are psychopaths. Be careful.

[Kagetenshi]

Corporations' sole purpose for existence is profit before all else.

Common misconception. In the US, a public corporation's reason for existence is required by law to be to keep the shareholders happy. Oddly enough, the shareholders like money.

~J

[asphalt-proof]

Subjective. I think they are nice, if a bit on the cheap side with thier signage...not as cheap as Ames used to be.

Did you grow up in the Soviet Republic? :confused: :) Yes its subjective but still ugly.

PROOF? I have seen this at least two or three times in this thread. If your talking about a couple pending lawsuits, remember those are not settled yet to my knowledge. Also, with as large as Walamrt is, it would not surprise me in the least to have a few bad apple(sorry, no other word fits) managers that abuse the system. This should not be a blanket judgement of the company. I shop at several area Walmarts and not once have I heard anyone complain about the company. In fact, I had friends I used to work with at Meijer (which in my area is a Union Store) who went to Walmart because they paid better and did not put up with the crap Meijer did with thier union workers. Plus they had no union dues! The ones who I saw pulling the Union card at Meijer were all lazy slobs who would never work as hard as I or many others did.

Proof: My wife worked there for three years while I was in grad school (this was in Utah). She witnessed first hand discrimination against several female assistant managers, their pay structure was slanted toward male because "they can lift more" even when the job description demanded no lifting or light lifting only. One female worker complained about a manager sexually harassing her and was fired the next day... also threatened that if she reported their would be "consequences". These are not isolated incidences either. I have a friend who works therewhile he is getting himself through school (this is in North Carolina). He has also witnessed events like these. The problem is that this is part of their corporate culture. This is why there is a class-action lawsuit against them. It is pervasive and long-standing.

Again, all companies ask their suppliers to get better prices. We'd be paying an arm and a leg if Walmart and others did not do this. Walmart tends to proove to their suppliers that while the supplier gets less per unit, they can make up for that in volume many times larger then their nearest competitor.

The problem is that the suppliers hav to cut costs in order to meet Walmart's demands. Those costs usually come at the expense of worker pay. Workers make less thus they are forced to shop at the cheapest place they can find. WHere is that you say? WalMart.

I have not seen a local business close unless they deserved to be closed.

How do you know that they "deserved" to be closed? Because Walmart is able to wield so much buying power over its suppliers, they get a much better price for their goods then the mom and pop (see above why). Plus, the suppliers stick to the mom and pops on the price because 1. they know they can, 2. they have to make up some the margins they lost from their negotiations with Walmart. Mom and pop stores cut costs to compete, once again labor costs are cut) but can't because they have no buying power relative to Walmart. Pretty soon they are their are employees are shopping there because its the only place they can afford. THe problem that so many economists, social activists, communities, etc. have with Walmart does not value the worker, the community it resides in, or its impact on the community. THis is actually well documented in several books and the PBS piece that was produced a while back. So ummm there is you proof.

There are many times when I have seen mom and pop specialty stores close down because they mismanaged things to the point that when Walmart moved in, there was no chance they could catch them. Case in point, there's a ton of other businesses in almost every neighborhood that has a Walmart in my town that have not all closed down. The only one that is in any danger of closing is the Kroger operating next to my local Walmart. If Walmart moves in a superstore (expand the existing store to a super), then they MAY go downhill. I personally have not seen one valid point where Walmart has forced local business to close. What did the Walmart police come down on them? No. They just could not compete price wise. When you are at that point, you must compete in other ways. Take a mom and pop grocery. Sure, you can't compete on regular groceries, but what happens if you go organic? What happens if you start carrying things the Walmart does not carry? You CAN still survive against the goliath. How does Apple survive against Wintel???

I also do not think Apple selling iPod Shuffles at Walmart will degrade or reduce the brand. What about HP, Sony, or Epson? They are all still good brands. Sure, now others can buy them. Staying exclusive is not the way to make money in a down economy like we have now. Also, look at the largest companies in the world of which Walmart is one of them....they all sell products that people can afford. All anyone who hates this idea is concerned about is that thier Apple Mac's and iPods aren't cool any more. I personally don't think that staying exclusive is how Apple wants to be. Case in point, Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak both had an idea about computers. They wanted everyone to have one and not just the rich. The Apple II was the peoples computer as was the Mac. Steve Jobs is still very much that way. If he was into the exclusivity, he would not have signed off on the Shuffle or Mac Mini projects. He wants to prove that the smaller company can take down the giant, Microsoft. Before that, the giant was IBM. The only way to do this now is to start selling the cheaper models where they will sell, Walmart, Sam's Club and Target. The iPod most be doing well at Target otherwise they would not have been on the list to sell the Shuffle. Plus for a brief instance, they were going to sell the Mac Mini at Target. Incredible. Anyone ever remember seeing computers at Target yet? I sure as heck haven't. The Mac Mini was the first. If done with a logical business plan, the low end Apple stuff should sell quite well in both Target and Walmart and I believe that's a good thing for all of us, Apple, Walmart, Target and Mac fans. I would love to see the Mac supplant Microsoft. I think they can do it. Just look.....even the Xbox Next is going to be powered by a PowerPC chip. I'd say the PowerPC line itself is growing leaps and bounds thanks to Apple, IBM and Motorola.

Did you grow up in the Soviet Republic? :confused: :) Yes its subjective but still ugly.

Proof: My wife worked there for three years while I was in grad school (this was in Utah). She witnessed first hand discrimination against several female assistant managers, their pay structure was slanted toward male because "they can lift more" even when the job description demanded no lifting or light lifting only. One female worker complained about a manager sexually harassing her and was fired the next day... also threatened that if she reported their would be "consequences". These are not isolated incidences either. I have a friend who works therewhile he is getting himself through school (this is in North Carolina). He has also witnessed events like these. The problem is that this is part of their corporate culture. This is why there is a class-action lawsuit against them. It is pervasive and long-standing.

How many Mercedes do you see being sold at the Ford dealership? (to resurrect an old analogy). How many celebrities do you see going into Walmart to get their gear? You mention HP, Epson, and Sony being sold the but these are not brands that the cultural literati typically glom to. (Sony being an exception I guess.) Someone mentioned above that once a product hits middle America it ceases to be 'cool'. Apple has great brand recognition and impact globally (#1 with Google being #2... NYOnline) and a lot of that comes from the 'Cool" factor and its innovation. How many times have you read on /. that HP was upping their processor speeds on their line of laptops, or Time magazine do a write up on Sony when they release a new product?

Like it or not a company is associated with the outlet that sells it. That's one reason Apple started its own band of stores. Walmart is all about commodization. Apple has been anything but.

[alandail]

Like it or not a company is associated with the outlet that sells it. That's one reason Apple started its own band of stores. Walmart is all about commodization. Apple has been anything but.

what are the iPod shuffle and the Mac mini if they are not intended to be mass market products? Apple is dominating the exploding MP3 player market and expanding there OS market share for the first time in years.

That doesn't mean they can't be cool at the same time. Apple has the iPod positioned where it's not cool to not have one. And they are showing it's possible to have low end products that are cool too. In fact, the Apple coolness factor is probably at an all time high. People don't want "MP3 players" anymore, they want iPods. The iPod name has superseded the term MP3 player.

[Rod Rod]

People don't want "MP3 players" anymore, they want iPods. The iPod name has superseded the term MP3 player.

Not only that... but if someone says, "give me a Kleenex," and only Puffs were around, hardly anyone would say, "how about a Puffs instead," because Kleenex has become a generic term for facial tissue.

However, if someone says, "I just got an iPod," and they have a Dell DJ or Rio Carbon, just about everyone would say, "that's not an iPod, you fool."

Even if the iPod goes the way of Kleenex, Xerox and Coke, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Brand recognition and pervasiveness is good. That's why Coca-Cola sells better than RC.

[jmurray]

Sold their soul to the Devil Apple did. Normally I’m not ravenously opposed to any one company on principle but Walmart is actually worse then Microsoft in terms of their business practices and how they treat their employees.
Normally I would be pro any choice Apple makes but I think this is a mistake. Best Buy, fine. Target, fine. CompUSA, fine. Circuit City, fine. Walmart. Not so fine.

I couldn't agree more. Nicely said SA!

Remember the days after 9/11? Aside from GWB, no one waved the USA flag stronger than WalMart. In their ads, on their trucks, in their stores. It was inescapeable. Take a peek however, at the products WalMart sells. Overwhelming majority are NOT made in the USA. By demanding cheaper prices, companies are forced to outsource. Someone mentioned Rubbermaid going out of business, that's the tip of a colossal iceberg. Harper's had a recent article citing WalMart administrators passing out literature to its employees about how to spot a union and to STAY AWAY! They have something like 1.2 million employees. Guess what the average wage is? About $7.50 an hour. It's abhorrent. If Apple's gonna jump in bed with the chains, I vote to stay out of WalMart.

[pubwvj]

Guess what the average wage is [at Walmart]? About $7.50 an hour. It's abhorrent.

Wrong. That is the starting wage, for unskilled labor. And that is an good wage too. Many people make more at Walmart. I have several friends who work there and are very happy with Walmart.

Of course, you don't have to buy at Walmart, but in many places there isn't much other opportunity for shopping, or working. Not because Walmart drove the other stores out of business but because they weren't there to start with. Walmart is a great thing in rural America.

If you don't like buying stuff that was imported, then look at the labels and buy stuff made in America. But beware that the whole concept is rather slippery and Macs are _not_ made in America either.

[jmurray]

Wrong. That is the starting wage, for unskilled labor. And that is an good wage too.

Below is the link to the article. Your'e right, I misquoted, it's 1.3 million employees with an average wage of $8.00 an hour. Oh, that makes ALL the difference. This is according to the United Food and Commercial Workers. I'm just passing it along.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1111/is_1853_309/ai_n6332642

[pubwvj]

Your'e right, I misquoted, it's 1.3 million employees with an average wage of $8.00 an hour

And that is a good wage. No education necessary. No particular skills. And if you stick around and are half descent you can move up to managment work fairly quickly and earn a lot more than $8/hr. Walmart is offering a good deal to many people, both buyers and employees. Many people like working there. Many people like shopping there. If you don't, the solution is simple. Don't. This is a free country and you have the right to spend your money where you wan't. Don't confuse that with the idea that you can tell other people what to do.

[Kagetenshi]

And that is a good wage.

No, no it isn't. At 30 hours a week to avoid paying for benefits, that's $12,480 a year, or about two-thirds of the poverty level.

~J

[jmurray]

This is a free country and you have the right to spend your money where you wan't. Don't confuse that with the idea that you can tell other people what to do.

I don't spend my money there, but that's a personal choice, not one that I am imposing on others.

Look, this is a rumor site where people log on to give opinions. This is my opinion: Apple should stay out of WalMart because the company is a blood-sucking, unrelenting, greedy, very un-American [traditional], playground bully whose façade implies the inverse. The consumate display of hypocrisy!

Now, if that "opinion" is rendered in such a way that you feel I've misprepresented your experience, fine, say so. But, and I'll use your own words, "Don't confuse that with the idea that you can tell other people what to do."

[Munimula]

Hmm. Wal-Mart is anti-union. Union websites don't particularly like Wal-Mart and spread misinformation and messages of hatred toward Wal-Mart. Go figure. Makes sense to me. When was the last time you saw a Ford billboard that read "Cheverolet has the Best Designs" or "Dodge has more Power"?

Lets set the record straight on a couple of things.
First, for accurate, verifiable information on Wal-Mart and it's payscale/benefits, quit looking to the 'Enemies' of Wal-Mart, go to WalMartFacts.com

Yes, you should expect, as I did, to find an equally skewed view, as Wal-Mart runs that website, however the information there is accurate. Even for those who refuse to believe this should at least admit that if you want the best information about someone/something, you ask those against the entity, and those for it, then find common ground somewhere in between.

Second, Wal-Mart does not 'keep people at 30 hours so they can refuse them benefits'. They never have. 80% of Wal-Mart's workforce is regularly scheduled at least 34 hours. Usually this includes part-time. The trick is, at Wal-Mart, 34 hrs. is considered full time, eligible for all full time benefits, which are admittedly lower than some people get, but much better than any other retail company. People always make the mistake for forgetting, because of the size of Wal-Mart, that it is still retail. If you want to talk about wages/benefits/treatment, you must look at others in the same industry. Back to scheduled hours, though...by corporate policy, and non-overridable failsafes in the systems, no Full Time (see above) associate at Wal-Mart can be scheduled less than 34 hours, unless they are taking vacation/sick, etc. Even on these instances, their benefits are not discontinued. An associate is considered full-time active until their actual worked time drops below 34 hrs for 3 consecutive weeks. At my store (yes, I do work at Wal-Mart, and have for almost 10 years, I am well educated, and also a small business owner. I choose to stay at Wal-Mart because I refuse to work for any company that does not respect or listen to it's associates, draw your own conclusions.) We have a female former Assistant Manager (no, not discrimination, she started a family, and requested to step down) who only works 16 hrs a week, as training coordinator. She is full time. She gets full benefits.

I would go on, but this is likely falling on deaf ears, though I am glad to see at least some people on this forum who seem that they would understand what I am getting at.

Third, and last, Today I checked the Wal-Mart supplier listing, as I have been doing since this rumor first began, and have found that under 'Apple Computer, Inc.' are entries for:

Apple iPod Shuffle 512MB, $97.46
Apple iPod Shuffle 1GB, $148.96
Apple iPod Sport Case, $27.96
Apple iPod mini 4GB, $178.96

Yes, I think the price on the mini is likely an error, but for now, that's how it stands. I work in receiving, checking in all direct-to-store deliveries, as I assume a product launch of this type will initially be, so I'll be glad to offer more insight/information once the iPods start arriving.

[hulugu]

...
I would go on, but this is likely falling on deaf ears, though I am glad to see at least some people on this forum who seem that they would understand what I am getting at.

I think this is astroturf, the first post by a newbie on MacRumors is a post defending Walmart. Second, using a PR website as a reference is—let's just say—not impressive.
Third, you arguments are similar to those echoed by Walmart's CEO as referenced in this article from Slate (http://slate.msn.com/id/2113954/).
And if this indeed astroturf, placing prices to increase traffic to the Walmart website is deceitful at best. This is a public forum, if you want advertising, buy some.

[wdlove]

Having more opportunities to sell and iPod, sounds like a good thing. Most important is that Apple can keep up with supplies.

[Munimula]

I think this is astroturf, the first post by a newbie on MacRumors is a post defending Walmart. Second, using a PR website as a reference is—let's just say—not impressive.
Third, you arguments are similar to those echoed by Walmart's CEO as referenced in this article from Slate (http://slate.msn.com/id/2113954/).
And if this indeed astroturf, placing prices to increase traffic to the Walmart website is deceitful at best. This is a public forum, if you want advertising, buy some.

I don't know who 'astroturf' is. This is my first post to this forum, though. Not because I am a 'newbie' by any means. I have been a regular visitor to this site for qute a while, I have only now seen a thread that I felt warranted another opinion, so I registered simply to post my comment. If this is how people are generally treated on this forum (with blatant disrespect, skewed familiarity, and lowered credibility) simply because my opinions are contrary to popular belief, and of a corrective nature, suggestive of looking to both sides of the coin in order to gain a clearer picture of the situation, then I will simply leave you to your ignorance, insulted.
Second, using the 'PR' website I suggested was to illustrate the fallicy of looking to one source, or type thereof. All information given in the thread thus far was hearsay and propeganda, spread by those firmly against Wal-Mart, usually for their own motives, rather than the common good. Think about it for a moment. Wal-Mart is the largest employeer in the world. 1.2 Million associates in the states, alone, and it is non-union. That's 1.2 Mill. people not paying union dues. Does it not stand to reason that this could be part of the motivation behind union, and union supported, critisism of Wal-Mart?
Third, if my comments are reflective of beliefs also held by Lee Scott, CEO of the largest, most powerful, and most influential corporation in the world (which, by the way, began as a Mom & Pop discount store, once adored and praised for the same policies and practices that it still largely follows, but is now hated for) then I consider my opinion to be in good company.
Finally, to my knowledge, neither the iPod shuffle, nor the mini, are currently anywhere to be found on Wal-Mart's website, nor do I have any reason to believe that their debut in the stores will coincide with an introduction on Wal-Mart's web presence (unless issues involving conflict of interest in the online music arena can be resolved) and my previous post did not in any way direct the reader to draw these conclusions, I fail to see how there was any attempt to increase traffic to Wal-Mart's website, or to advertise in their favor. I simply made an informed comment on the current discussion. To that end, my pricing information is still rumor, the purpose of this site, as since the devices have not hit the shelves at Wal-Mart yet, all of that info is subject to change.

This is a public forum, and it should be kept in mind that the 'public' is a very large entity. Attacking someone's ideas based on the thought that you may know them under a different name is very nieve. My apologies for the long, and slightly off-topic rant. Good day to you.

[Doctor Q]

I have been a regular visitor to this site for quite a while...

If this is how people are generally treated on this forum...Your first sentence implies that you are familiar with these forums, yet your second sentence paints a negative view of them. Members are naturally likely to give more weight to posts by members they know, but I don't think we should jump to conclusions that a new poster is a shill, and neither do I think it's appropriate to paint all members based on one member's reaction.

To all: the guidelines about posts in the Political forum, such as "fact-based debate", apply to controversial issues in all forums.

[IndyGopher]

You don't get to have it both ways. Either you have very little marketshare, or you sell to people you don't necessarily want to be associated with. Personally I would like to see Apple stuff sold everywhere. This whole notion of elitism is just kind of revolting.

It all stinks of the "not in my back yard" and "there goes the neighborhood" kind of snobbery that has caused me on several occasions to say that while I love Apple products, I have a growing discomfort with "Apple people."

If you wanna sell products, you sell them to the wrestling fans, and the NASCAR fans, and the hip-hop fans, and the country fans, and anyone else that will pony up the cash. Does your iPod sound different because the guy on the bus next to your Beemer at the stop light has one, too? Does yours sound worse because the guy at the trailer park bought one from Target or Wal*Mart instead of the Apple Store or Sharper Image?

Get over yourselves.

[Kagetenshi]

My problem isn't who is buying them, it's who is selling— I can't stand the thought of Wal*Mart making money off of this.

~J

[alandail]

My problem isn't who is buying them, it's who is selling— I can't stand the thought of Wal*Mart making money off of this.

~J

You'd rather they make money selling the microsoft knockoff and cut into apple's market share instead of expanding it?

[Guy L]

The major irk that I have with Wal*Mart is the way they use their buying power to undercut the smaller stores. It would be like the Apple Store selling the ipod cheaper than their other resellers. Apple has been the "little guy" with better product and service than the pc clone super discounters. Hopefully, Apple will sell their product to resellers, including Wal*Mart at the same wholesale price to keep the playing field level.

[Lacero]

Have you shopped at WalMart before? I have, so I am not allowed to be irked, for I have sinned like the other hundreds of millions of Americans.

[chillywilly]

My problem isn't who is buying them, it's who is selling— I can't stand the thought of Wal*Mart making money off of this.

~J
I agree. I would rather buy a Shuffle from another store. Circuit City sells them here, just saw my first one (a 512K shuffle) up and close yesterday.

[Kagetenshi]

Have you shopped at WalMart before?

Nope.

Hm. Now that I think about it, I do remember shopping in a giant store when I was 12 or so and getting a bunch of ramen and a microwave-safe bowl. It's possible that that was Wal*Mart. I hope not. I certainly haven't bought anything from them since I became aware of brands other than Apple.

You'd rather they make money selling the microsoft knockoff and cut into apple's market share instead of expanding it?

Nah, I'd rather they didn't make money period. I guess the question comes down to how much you think having the items at Wal*Mart is going to increase sales, and take sales away from competitors. Besides, even if I do eventually decide that this is the correct choice to take, I still won't like it. The alternative can still be worse.

~J