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View Full Version : iMac G4 800mhz needs Tinkerers' help!!




trickyred
Jan 13, 2011, 07:54 AM
Hi all,

I have just purchased what is either a G4 flat panel 700 or 800 (can't tell which yet*) off of eBay, that won't boot up*. It's getting the multi language kernel panic message at the grey screen. So far I have tried:

Trying a different keyboard.
Taking out the Kingston memory that has been added (Doing this causes it not to turn on at all)
Diskwarrior.
Disk First Aid (shows the HD as being fine)
I have installed a fresh install of Leopard onto the HD via Firewire which went on fine, and would even boot up using its HD in target mode on another mac, which says to me the HD and system are fine, but it won't boot on it's own.

Any ideas guys??



Nameci
Jan 13, 2011, 07:57 AM
Hi all,

I have just purchased what is either a G4 flat panel 700 or 800 (can't tell which yet*) off of eBay, that won't boot up*. It's getting the multi language kernel panic message at the grey screen. So far I have tried:

Trying a different keyboard.
Taking out the Kingston memory that has been added (Doing this causes it not to turn on at all)
Diskwarrior.
Disk First Aid (shows the HD as being fine)
I have installed a fresh install of Leopard onto the HD via Firewire which went on fine, and would even boot up using its HD in target mode on another mac, which says to me the HD and system are fine, but it won't boot on it's own.

Any ideas guys??


What do you mean of G4 flat panel? and iMac?

trickyred
Jan 13, 2011, 08:14 AM
http://www.apple.com/support/imac/g4/

Yes.

chrismacguy
Jan 13, 2011, 08:24 AM
http://www.apple.com/support/imac/g4/

Yes.
Have you got the Apple Hardware Test disks for that machine - if so it might be worth giving it a shot to see if theres something more fundamentally wrong with the iMac (Bad Logic Board etc)

trickyred
Jan 13, 2011, 08:28 AM
If I can find it, I'll have the discs that came with my G4 17" iMac - would that work or do they have to be the exact disc for the machine?

Nameci
Jan 13, 2011, 08:31 AM
If I can find it, I'll have the discs that came with my G4 17" iMac - would that work or do they have to be the exact disc for the machine?

They are machine specific...

chrismacguy
Jan 13, 2011, 08:32 AM
If I can find it, I'll have the discs that came with my G4 17" iMac - would that work or do they have to be the exact disc for the machine?

Well, your in luck it appears apple has the AHT for your model online here : http://www.info.apple.com/support/aht.html - you want the iMac/eMac disk - that should work fine on your iMac G4 :)

They are machine specific...

Yes, but some can be used across certain bands of model - such as the one linked too above - that runs on several iMac G3 models, several iMac G4 models and the first eMac.

trickyred
Jan 13, 2011, 08:55 AM
That's fantastic!! I can't wait to get home now and grab it!!

Thanks .... stay tuned for results!!

SkippyThorson
Jan 13, 2011, 09:08 AM
Hi all,

I have just purchased what is either a G4 flat panel 700 or 800 (can't tell which yet*) off of eBay, that won't boot up*. It's getting the multi language kernel panic message at the grey screen. So far I have tried:

Trying a different keyboard.
Taking out the Kingston memory that has been added (Doing this causes it not to turn on at all)
Diskwarrior.
Disk First Aid (shows the HD as being fine)
I have installed a fresh install of Leopard onto the HD via Firewire which went on fine, and would even boot up using its HD in target mode on another mac, which says to me the HD and system are fine, but it won't boot on it's own.

Any ideas guys??

The first thing that I see as a problem is what I've put in bold that you said. The reason that it starts up just fine in target disk mode on another Mac is (probably) because that the other Mac has a faster processor than your 800mhz iMac G4. Right?

Your #1 problem, since you haven't done any little tricks to over-clock your processor from the original 700mhz / 800mhz, is that those iMacs are not (officially) supported to run Leopard. (See below.)


Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard requires:

A Mac computer with an Intel, PowerPC G5, or Power PC G4 (867 MHz or faster) processor
512 MB memory or more
A DVD drive for installation
9 GB of available disk space or more
Some features require a compatible Internet service provider, fees may apply.
Some features require Apple's MobileMe service; fees apply.
(Continued...) (http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3759)


Over-clocking is not worth it, before you consider it, because even though you could get Leopard on the 700mhz / 800mhz iMac G4 with some work, trust me, you wouldn't want to. I would personally get my hands on a retail copy of Tiger (10.4), and go from there, because not only will you have the OS to put on this computer, you'll have it available should you ever need it again for another computer, saving you the disk hunting woes.

chrismacguy
Jan 13, 2011, 09:21 AM
The first thing that I see as a problem is what I've put in bold that you said. The reason that it starts up just fine in target disk mode on another Mac is (probably) because that the other Mac has a faster processor than your 800mhz iMac G4. Right?

Your #1 problem, since you haven't done any little tricks to over-clock your processor from the original 700mhz / 800mhz, is that those iMacs are not (officially) supported to run Leopard. (See below.)



Over-clocking is not worth it, before you consider it, because even though you could get Leopard on the 700mhz / 800mhz iMac G4 with some work, trust me, you wouldn't want to. I would personally get my hands on a retail copy of Tiger (10.4), and go from there, because not only will you have the OS to put on this computer, you'll have it available should you ever need it again for another computer, saving you the disk hunting woes.

You dont need any work to get it on the 700Mhz G4 iMac. It will run it fine, without any hacks, without any work. All the drivers are present in 10.5 to run on slower G4 machines. (Seriously - it works fine on my 450Mhz G4, and 700Mhz eMac, neither of which are supported, in any incarnation. I just used FW Disk mode and it worked fine). Sure Tiger runs better, but 10.5 will boot any Mac with a G4 CPU pretty much - without overclocking - heck there are videos of a PM8500/G4 booting 10.5 on youtube.

SkippyThorson
Jan 13, 2011, 09:50 AM
You dont need any work to get it on the 700Mhz G4 iMac. It will run it fine, without any hacks, without any work. All the drivers are present in 10.5 to run on slower G4 machines. (Seriously - it works fine on my 450Mhz G4, and 700Mhz eMac, neither of which are supported, in any incarnation. I just used FW Disk mode and it worked fine). Sure Tiger runs better, but 10.5 will boot any Mac with a G4 CPU pretty much - without overclocking - heck there are videos of a PM8500/G4 booting 10.5 on youtube.

While I don't dispute you, and even find it interesting that it's as simple as plug and play in Target Disk Mode (which I've never tried) there are users that try and report Leopard will not install directly onto the unsupported Mac through its own drive.

I still stand by my statement and say the problem is Leopard and not the Machine. :o

(Then again, when an Apple Store Genius booted my iMac G4 off another Mac behind the counter, my input jack worked. Back home, under its own power, I still can't play guitar through it. Maybe there is some magic in FireWire and Target Disk Mode.)

trickyred
Jan 13, 2011, 09:56 AM
Hi

The problem won't be Leopard, as I put the Leopard on it, and it wasn't working before that :(

chrismacguy
Jan 13, 2011, 12:05 PM
OP: try making a AHT CD with the stuff above, and rebooting using it, as it tends to be the best way to diagnose problems with various internal pieces of your G4. Leopard isnt the problem or solution currently :)

SkippyThorson
Jan 13, 2011, 12:14 PM
Hi

The problem won't be Leopard, as I put the Leopard on it, and it wasn't working before that :(

Ahhhhh. Ok. I wasn't aware that you had an OS on it before Leopard. I misunderstood. I retract everything then. :p

trickyred
Jan 13, 2011, 12:28 PM
No worries!! Ok, about to make an AHD CD .... hold your breath .... not literally!!





Back later ....

SkippyThorson
Jan 13, 2011, 12:50 PM
~crosses fingers~ Hope it helps. I know I'll keep it in mind now - I never knew about those.

trickyred
Jan 13, 2011, 02:35 PM
Ok .... it's memory. If I'm reading it right, it's the 256mb extra Kingston stick that is faulty, yet when I remove this it wont boot at all ....

trickyred
Jan 13, 2011, 02:37 PM
Here's the results ....

trickyred
Jan 13, 2011, 02:40 PM
At least it's the 800mhz instead of the 700!!

:cool:

chrismacguy
Jan 13, 2011, 05:08 PM
At least it's the 800mhz instead of the 700!!

:cool:

Id get a 256MB RAM stick thats compatible and put that in it, one thats known to be OK (that way you see if its the slot, or the RAM itself).

trickyred
Jan 14, 2011, 05:01 AM
:gulp:

OK, I've bit the bullet and ordered a stick from Crucial.

I tried the 512mb stick from my 1.25mhz 17" G4 but it's completely different.

This 'bargain' is turning out to be a little bit naughty ....

What I don't get is why it wouldn't boot without the dodgy stick in. Just a black screen with the power indicator in the bottom left of the LCD panel on.

iDutchman
Jan 14, 2011, 06:03 AM
:gulp:
What I don't get is why it wouldn't boot without the dodgy stick in. Just a black screen with the power indicator in the bottom left of the LCD panel on.

That's probably because your 800Mhz model has a min. RAM requirement of 256MB. Logically, 128MB won't work.


As stated in this screenshot. MIN 256MB.

trickyred
Jan 14, 2011, 06:32 AM
Ah ok, that has given me an optimistic view!!

So, there must have always been extra memory in the expansion slot in order for it to work, even when it left the factory??

chrismacguy
Jan 14, 2011, 06:40 AM
Ah ok, that has given me an optimistic view!!

So, there must have always been extra memory in the expansion slot in order for it to work, even when it left the factory??

Yep, This has been Apple Practise generally when they had logic board RAM - even my 1996/7 PB1400 shipped with 8MB in the expansion and 8MB on the logic. Im pretty sure the iMac G4 shipped with 128MB in the expansion (IIRC that is)

trickyred
Jan 14, 2011, 06:56 AM
OK, that's cool. I was just going on the fact that on my iMac 17" 1.25ghz the memory slot underneath was empty so I assumed they all shipped like that. Good to know!!

Now, that leads me to my next thought .... the memory in there now is Kingston - Apple don't use Kingston do they?? So if not, it's got through at least 2 sticks of memory in it's lifetime (whatever it shipped with plus the Kingston stick).

I just want to say thanks for the help so far guys, I'm always open to learning new things and have picked up a lot so far this week!!

iDutchman
Jan 14, 2011, 07:10 AM
OK, that's cool. I was just going on the fact that on my iMac 17" 1.25ghz the memory slot underneath was empty so I assumed they all shipped like that. Good to know!!

Now, that leads me to my next thought .... the memory in there now is Kingston - Apple don't use Kingston do they?? So if not, it's got through at least 2 sticks of memory in it's lifetime (whatever it shipped with plus the Kingston stick).

I just want to say thanks for the help so far guys, I'm always open to learning new things and have picked up a lot so far this week!!

No, it did not. I'd pick up two 512MB sticks from OWC though. It's pretty cheap and it will be flyin'.

29,99 + 23,99= 55 dollars. it's fair. You'll max it out.

trickyred
Jan 15, 2011, 05:39 AM
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Just got a new 256mb stick and put it in, but same error message on the apple hardware test. Devastated.

Only difference is, it got to the desktop before the kernel panic this time .... first time it's got that far.

Any ideas??

tom vilsack
Jan 15, 2011, 06:08 PM
im guessing you've looked here?

http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/kernelpanics.html

could it be bad harddrive? can you boot leopard and run disk utility?

Intell
Jan 15, 2011, 06:14 PM
When you replaced the faulty ram, did you replace the 128Mb stick? Make sure the one you ordered is PC133 and not PC100. Also, try it without the user accessible ram installed.

chrismacguy
Jan 15, 2011, 06:56 PM
When you replaced the faulty ram, did you replace the 128Mb stick? Make sure the one you ordered is PC133 and not PC100. Also, try it without the user accessible ram installed.

It wont even boot without the user accessible ram installed apparently (he mentioned so earlier in the thread) - probably a breaking logic board memory controller, as it doesnt see the logic board RAM and is having serious issues with user installed chips...

Intell
Jan 15, 2011, 07:03 PM
If the OP is brave he can try removing the internal ram and try booting with just the new ram.

chrismacguy
Jan 15, 2011, 07:07 PM
If the OP is brave he can try removing the internal ram and try booting with just the new ram.

hmm... it is possible that the internal RAM is causing the Mac to "see" corruption on the external (to the logic board) stick, although Id still hedge my bets on it being the Memory unit on the Logic Board itself thats on the way out.

VanneDC
Jan 16, 2011, 03:35 AM
could be the internal ram stick is shagged... remove and check it out...

trickyred
Jan 16, 2011, 05:25 AM
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I'm gonna try that next. Anyone got any tips of their own to add to the guides online??

DewGuy1999
Jan 16, 2011, 11:08 AM
Ok .... it's memory. If I'm reading it right, it's the 256mb extra Kingston stick that is faulty, yet when I remove this it wont boot at all ....

Unless Apple changed it, on my 1GHz G4 iMac, DIMM1 is the top DIMM slot on an iMac, not the bottom, the bottom is DIMM0.

trickyred
Jan 17, 2011, 04:43 PM
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OK update time!!

I got a 512mb stick from an old G4 at work and dropped it onto the logic board and apple hardware test is seeing it ok and it passed all the tests.

Now, I'm getting the 'can't find startup disc' icon at startup .... time for bed.

chrismacguy
Jan 17, 2011, 04:55 PM
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OK update time!!

I got a 512mb stick from an old G4 at work and dropped it onto the logic board and apple hardware test is seeing it ok and it passed all the tests.

Now, I'm getting the 'can't find startup disc' icon at startup .... time for bed.

Looks like you just need to install the OS now (10.3/10.4/10.5 should in theory work once on the internal disk)

DewGuy1999
Jan 17, 2011, 04:56 PM
OK update time!!

I got a 512mb stick from an old G4 at work and dropped it onto the logic board and apple hardware test is seeing it ok and it passed all the tests.

Now, I'm getting the 'can't find startup disc' icon at startup .... time for bed.

You could try :apple: Resetting your Mac's PRAM and NVRAM (http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1379)

trickyred
Jan 19, 2011, 07:02 AM
OK peeps, here's the latest:

I tried resetting the PRAM and it made no difference, so I hooked it up in firewire target mode to my good imac and tried to install Leopard once again, but my disc kept failing this time .... so I dug out the original discs hat came with my good iMac, which are 10.2 Jaguar (Grey discs) and installed it via Firewire which was not a problem. Now, I rebooted the poorly iMac and it stopped at the grey screen with the apple on it, no spinner, just the apple, and never moved. I restarted a few times, no joy. Safe mode wouldn't boot. Reset PRAM and still no joy. Then, randomly on another restart it came up to the desktop, was working fine, I went into system prefs, look at the profile, and decided to make sure it was ok and restarted it again, but it hasn't come back since. I even left it at the grey screen overnight in case I was being impatient.

I was wondering if the installation was corrupt in some way, but then again it came up the one time OK.

Oh, and everything passes in Apple HD test too.

Over to you, guys!!

*crosses fingers*

DewGuy1999
Jan 19, 2011, 07:16 AM
Gray discs are machine specific, is the good iMac from whence they came the same as the non-booting iMac?

trickyred
Jan 19, 2011, 07:22 AM
Gray discs are machine specific, is the good iMac from whence they came the same as the non-booting iMac?

The good iMac is a 1.25ghz G4 17" late 2003, so I assumed it would be OK, being a close family member and all.

And the annoying thing is it bloody booted OK once!!

chrismacguy
Jan 19, 2011, 07:28 AM
The good iMac is a 1.25ghz G4 17" late 2003, so I assumed it would be OK, being a close family member and all.

And the annoying thing is it bloody booted OK once!!

If they install, then it should be OK (Ive used PowerBook install disks via Target Disk Mode to install from a PowerBook G4 1.67 onto a PowerMac G4/450 AGP, works just fine, so its not the install discs causing havoc. You need to try and replace the internal RAM and see if that fixes it, as it obviously isnt tragically broken as it did, once, get to the desktop.

trickyred
Jan 19, 2011, 07:41 AM
If they install, then it should be OK (Ive used PowerBook install disks via Target Disk Mode to install from a PowerBook G4 1.67 onto a PowerMac G4/450 AGP, works just fine, so its not the install discs causing havoc. You need to try and replace the internal RAM and see if that fixes it, as it obviously isnt tragically broken as it did, once, get to the desktop.


I changed the internal RAM to a 512mb stick - do you mean change it again?

chrismacguy
Jan 19, 2011, 08:19 AM
I changed the internal RAM to a 512mb stick - do you mean change it again?

Oh i didnt realise in the sleep-deprived state I was posting that. With the RAM changed, can you run the AHT again, and see if you can get it too boot again, and look in the Console (Apps>Utilites) - and try and get the output as this might help us work out whats wrong with your machine :)

trickyred
Jan 19, 2011, 08:38 AM
Will do.

It passes the AHT every time now.

Anyhoo, I'll get my restarting finger cranked up tonight then ....
:o

666sheep
Jan 19, 2011, 10:32 AM
Try to boot your "ill" iMac from your "good" iMac's HDD via Firewire (TDM). See what will happen. If it will boot and run without problems, HDD is the culprit.

trickyred
Jan 19, 2011, 10:51 AM
So the firewire logo is on the screen on my 'good' mac??

(Sorry, I'm tired!!)

DewGuy1999
Jan 19, 2011, 10:53 AM
Try to boot your "ill" iMac from your "good" iMac's HDD via Firewire (TDM). See what will happen. If it will boot and run without problems, HDD is the culprit.

That's a good idea, I forgot about that possibility. If that works, the OP could also try cloning the "good" iMac's hard drive to the "ill" iMac's hard drive using Carbon Copy Cloner (http://www.bombich.com/).

666sheep
Jan 19, 2011, 10:56 AM
So the firewire logo is on the screen on my 'good' mac??

(Sorry, I'm tired!!)

Yes, and boot your 800 with "alt" pressed on kbd to choose boot drive.

@DewGuy1999: if it will boot and run OK, then HDD of 800 needs to be replaced IMO. Cloning won't help as HDD is (somehow) damaged.

trickyred
Jan 19, 2011, 10:58 AM
woohoo, I'm excited now!!

Good timing guys, I'm about to go home too!!

DewGuy1999
Jan 19, 2011, 11:35 AM
Yes, and boot your 800 with "alt" pressed on kbd to choose boot drive.

@DewGuy1999: if it will boot and run OK, then HDD of 800 needs to be replaced IMO. Cloning won't help as HDD is (somehow) damaged.

But isn't it possible that it has either a bad install or a corrupt install of the OS?

666sheep
Jan 19, 2011, 11:54 AM
A little IMO. Bad install could come from bad media or bad hardware (i.e. CPU, memory, AP card etc). In most cases installation process would stop on error.
From my experiences at least... but YMMV ofc

Let's wait for OP's response :)

trickyred
Jan 19, 2011, 12:26 PM
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Well, same deal. Grey screen with apple, and no further.

I'll retry Jaguar install again next, unless anyone else can suggest anything else?

DewGuy1999
Jan 19, 2011, 12:36 PM
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Well, same deal. Grey screen with apple, and no further.

I'll retry Jaguar install again next, unless anyone else can suggest anything else?

Maybe :apple: Mac OS X: How to start up in single-user or verbose mode (http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1492)

trickyred
Jan 19, 2011, 01:00 PM
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It won't go into either ....

trickyred
Jan 19, 2011, 01:04 PM
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Running AHT then if it passes I'm gonna slap Jaguar on it again.

trickyred
Jan 19, 2011, 02:57 PM
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Ok .... I have installed Jaguar from the software install and restore disc and it's working ok!! I've restarted 3 times and it is still ticking along OK!!

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread - although I may be back!!

Cheers

DewGuy1999
Jan 19, 2011, 03:00 PM
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Ok .... I have installed Jaguar from the software install and restore disc and it's working ok!! I've restarted 3 times and it is still ticking along OK!!

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread - although I may be back!!

Cheers

Excellent! Enjoy! :)