Bill Gates praises Communist leaders of China

[hal9000]

This article hasn't gotten the attention it deserves -

From Agence France Presse - January 29, 2005

China has created brand-new form of capitalism: Bill Gates ( http://www.turkishpress.com/business/news.asp?id=050129133242.42gk8dq4.xml)


Some of his comments on the labor conditions of China are remarkable -

He characterised the Chinese model in terms of "willingness to work hard and not having quite the same medical overhead or legal overhead".
(It's called slavery, Bill.)

Then Gates started praising the tyrants who rule China -

Gates continued by heaping praise on the current generation of Chinese leaders.

"They're smart," he said with emphasis.

. . . .

"This generation of leaders is so smart, so capable, from the top down, particularly from the top down," he concluded.

Unlike last year, Gates has not posted a transcript of his idiotic remarks at the 2005 World Economic Forum in Davos on his speeches page (www.microsoft.com/billgates/speeches.asp).

Despite the denials from a few Microsoft fanboys who have seen the report, I believe that Gates was quoted accurately in the AFP article.

[tech4all]

Doesn't this belong in the Political forum? maybe?

[chanoc]

Some of his comments on the labor conditions of China are remarkable -

He characterised the Chinese model in terms of "willingness to work hard and not having quite the same medical overhead or legal overhead".
(It's called slavery, Bill.)

Capitalism is slavery too. Working for under the living wage with no, or scant, benefits is a fine example of Capitalist slavery. Middle class workers with bullsh@t medical benefits are going bankrupt with medical bills and currently make up half of all bankruptcies cases in the USA (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/apr2000/bank-a28.shtml).

Yes, this belongs in Politics. :)

[solvs]

I'm not sure it has to go political... yet.

Didn't Balmer just say Linux and open source was Communism. Maybe it was Gates. How these people got so rich and successful, I'll never know.

[miloblithe]

I wonder what's going on here. Is this an off-the-cuff set of remarks or a strategy of unleashing industry leaders to praise China?

[hal9000]

I'm not sure it has to go political... yet.

Didn't Balmer just say Linux and open source was Communism. Maybe it was Gates. How these people got so rich and successful, I'll never know.

Last month, Bill Gates implied that open source software authors are equivalent to communists -

"There are some new modern-day sort of communists who want to get rid of the incentive for musicians and moviemakers and software makers under various guises. They don't think that those incentives should exist."

- Bill Gates to CNET News, January 5, 2005 (http://news.com.com/Gates+taking+a+seat+in+your+den/2008-1041_3-5514121.html?tag=ces)


So when Bill Gates says open source software is communism, that's not politics. But when Bill Gates praises the real communist tyrants who rule China - it must be politics!

In the real world - there is no way to separate technology and politics.

[stubeeef]

Well, recently a member here was praising china for some new pollution standards while condeming the US. So I guess the ecological disaster of China is politically correct now, maybe they are the 800# gorilla, and no one wants them to eat their lunch.

[Sun Baked]

Last month, Bill Gates implied that open source software authors are equivalent to communists -Well Bill was mad, and had to call them something really bad and evil... So when Bill Gates says open source software is communism, that's not politics. But when Bill Gates praises the real communist tyrants who rule China - it must be politics!

In the real world - there is no way to separate technology and politics.The leaders of China and Billy do have soo much in common, one set of leaders dictates what their population should do = and one software company is still working on it, and doing quite a good job of it.

---

Of course he's doing his best to stick it to China and the cadre of pirates there by clamping down on piracy -- so he's playing the carrot and the stick routing quite well.

Good doggy (pat, pat, pat), whack...

[crenz]

Last month, Bill Gates implied that open source software authors are equivalent to communists

Let's evaluate that using some logic, shall we?

(earlier article)
(A) open source software authors = communists
<=> communists = open source software authors

(this article)
(B) chinese communists = good

Conclusion (using A in B):
=> chinese open source software authors = good

:D

[absolut_mac]

Capitalism is slavery too. Working for under the living wage with no, or scant, benefits is a fine example of Capitalist slavery.

Ummm, not quite.

For one you can easily upgrade your education and then quit your job and find a better paying one with more benefits.

For another, you don't have to worry about being crushed by tanks if you complain.

So while I'm the first to admit that the capitalistic model is far from perfect, it is - to paraphrase George Orwell - "more perfect than the rest".

[Lacero]

Nothing wrong with communism. Communism derives from commune, or people living and working together for the benefit of all. Its just an ideal and I really hate to see it looked upon as evil because it is not. Capitalism is centered on the self, while communism is centered on the group. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses. There is no right or wrong folks.

[wdlove]

This is very scary coming from a man of his stature. I pray that he will realize what his beliefs really mean. Socialism/Communism doesn't equal freedom, but slavery. It would be slavery by the government. He should study the history of the USSR.

[cubist]

Capitalism is slavery too. ....

The difference between capitalism and slavery is that under capitalism, I can quit and move somewhere else. Also, under slavery, the minimum wage is slightly lower - zero. (edit) Someone else beat me to it again.

[IJ Reilly]

If you've followed Bill Gates for any period of time, you won't find this kind of remark especially surprising. Everything is, and always has been, "all about Bill."

That being said: yes, Bill, it's a "new kind of capitalism" they've got over there in China. We call it "fascism."

[solvs]

Socialism/Communism doesn't equal freedom, but slavery. It would be slavery by the government.
The problem with Communism is that in trying to make everything equal, you often lose your right to be an individual. Especially when it becomes a dictatorship, and you become a slave to the system, which is pretty much the opposite of what it is meant to be. True communism wouldn't work anyway, because everything is not equal, and you can't force it to be. In a democracy, you are simply treated equally (ideally), but are free to excel or languish. Though, sometimes, luck does play a part either way as some attempt to corrupt (and control) the system.

I like the way Churchill put it Democracy is the worst system devised by the wit of man, except for all the others.

The real problems start happening when people like Billy Boy try to take advantage of the system. That's when the government (and consumers) should step in. We have rights, but we also have responsiblities, and laws to govern us. To prevent those that would attempt to trample on the rights of others from preverting the fairness of the system. Businesses are no different. And for Gates to call open sourcers Communists simply for wanting to be contributors to society, but then praise those that take advantage of the Communist system to establish a cruel dictatorship, is just proof of who the man really is. From what I've heard, he's quite the dictator himself.

[Xtremehkr]

I am failing to see the difference here. Except that with capitalism you can have a class of people wealthy enough not to have to work if they don't want to. The majority have to work, and as mentioned earlier, can easily fall prey to unregulated capitalism if they are to say get sick or something.

Socialism on the other hand is harder to define, but does seem to fit in nicely with Democracy. I mean, anything between pure Capitalism and pure Communism is going to be a form of socialism, but we call that Democracy.

There is enough done in the US to justify it not being called an out and out capitalist society. Yet it is closer to that than anything else and getting closer lately.

Whether this is beneficial or detrimental will be shown again, probably. Uncontrolled greed doesn't lead to good things, does it?

China is not a communist state any longer, it definately has a ruling class.

[meta-ghost]

Well, recently a member here was praising china for some new pollution standards while condeming the US. So I guess the ecological disaster of China is politically correct now, maybe they are the 800# gorilla, and no one wants them to eat their lunch.

be careful not to equate their current environmental condition with their current attempts to fix it. these two things are not one in the same. if you want government leadership today in regards to repairing the environment and planning for the future, look to beijing - not washington d.c.

[Fukui]

China is not a communist state any longer, it definitely has a ruling class.
China has always had a ruling class, the "politburo."
I find it ironic that the idea of communism to be opposing to democracy...
Its the idea everyone shares on work and becomes "free" from the spinning wheels of pure capitalism, people work harder so that all can gain... the only problem is we are a selfish people...

Communist china, nor russia were ever communist societies, they were just fascists/dictators that used communism as an excuse to gain power.

Communism is a nice idea, but as long as we feel selfish (different from self determination and democracy) and chase money, it would never work. Capitalism is a great idea as long as you keep the companies from abusing both their employees and their customers... unfortunately the U.S seems to believe that enforcing these rules (see MS antitrust, re-merging of the baby-bells etc.) hurts the economy, but in reality, not enforcing these rules allows these companies to gain more power than the U.S government itself. Not only that but the idea that we can always leave the worker food-chain and start our own business an compete ourselves is nice, but doesn't work so well in this current environment of huge companies that can just run over you like you were a roadkill...

Lastly, the U.S government seems to think that taxing the big business would hurt the U.S economy because they wouldn't have enough money to hire U.S workers etc. I say bull because if you look at the "big" companies, they are hiring more and more overseas ("cheap" labor), so the certainly aren't using their tax money to help the U.S... except for the Stock Market, they are just getting fatter!

Back to the point, if Bill Gates thinks that what is going on in China with their almost slave labor level wages is a good thing, and the fascists in charge of china are "great people" then for the first time I truly think this guy is ****** b@stard...

P.S I'm as much as a business person as the next; I just don't like to see the abuse caused by the system...

[IJ Reilly]

You've got to separate the political and economic systems if you want to understand what's going on in China. They are moving towards a market economy, but this in no way makes them a democracy. They are preserving their authoritarian system of government, but this does not make them a communist state. The most accurate label for this combination of political and economic systems is fascism.

[Fukui]

They are preserving their authoritarian system of government, but this does not make them a communist state. The most accurate label for this combination of political and economic systems is fascism.
I totally agree.

[Xtremehkr]

Lastly, the U.S government seems to think that taxing the big business would hurt the U.S economy because they wouldn't have enough money to hire U.S workers etc. I say bull because if you look at the "big" companies, they are hiring more and more overseas ("cheap" labor), so the certainly aren't using their tax money to help the U.S... except for the Stock Market, they are just getting fatter!



I agree with you. But there is not much seperation between the government and big business lately. Which probably explains that. Chevron just posted the highest profits ever made in their 125 year history, thank god they got some tax relief.

[Xtremehkr]

I totally agree.

Corporatism!

According to Mussolini at least. I am sure the corporations will come when China starts diversifying and developing an overseas business presence.

[Fukui]

I agree with you. But there is not much seperation between the government and big business lately. Which probably explains that. Chevron just posted the highest profits ever made in their 125 year history, thank god they got some tax relief.
Right, and where does that money go but locked inside some big bank account and does nothing but to make the company more fat lazy...

Its interesting when you see the economy start its down cycle, what usually happens (?) "XYZ company just laid off 10,000 employees" etc, and when they get their tax break, do they hire them all back? I'm guessing not. Or if they do, in order to get larger profits (because wall street demands ever-increasing profits) they hire the overseas labor at near slave-wages... its really sick when you think about how U.S companies are exploiting people in foreign countries... all for money they don't know what to do with!

[chanoc]

Chanoc<---------- Proud member of the USA Socialist Party! :cool:

[Xtremehkr]

Right, and where does that money go but locked inside some big bank account and does nothing but to make the company more fat lazy...

Its interesting when you see the economy start its down cycle, what usually happens (?) "XYZ company just laid off 10,000 employees" etc, and when they get their tax break, do they hire them all back? I'm guessing not. Or if they do, in order to get larger profits (because wall street demands ever-increasing profits) they hire the overseas labor at near slave-wages... its really sick when you think about how U.S companies are exploiting people in foreign countries... all for money they don't know what to do with!

So why are people buying it?

[Fukui]

So why are people buying it?
Buying...what?

[Xtremehkr]

Buying...what?

Buying into the premise that rewarding capitalists is going to somehow reward the working person. Bush getting 51% of the vote, even after the his quote about his base, the "have and the have mores."


I don't know, who do you think I mean when I refer to those who are undermining the premise of "we the people." The poor aren't the ones running things are they? Otherwise we may be biatching about President Nader or Kucinich. Did you just want me to say it? no problem on my part. Bush, the spokesperson for the mother of all pyramid schemes. The lastest Knight of the trickle down theory.

Surely you know my position by now.