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bedifferent
Jan 26, 2011, 03:17 PM
I'm sure it's been discussed ad nauseum, but I'm growing weary of Apple's focus (lack thereof) on desktop systems and OS X. I posted this on a front page thread but I'm curious as to any one's thoughts on the matter.

I miss the days when OS X Leopard/Snow Leopard beta's were consistently released with new features and MacRumors was abuzz with OS X news.

There was a feature in a 10.5 Leopard beta in iChat called "Answering Machine". You could record a voice or video away message and your friends could leave you recorded video messages. There was talk about incorporating phone numbers via VoIP/Landlines into the system, allowing access to your messages through another computer/mobile device. You could listen to or watch your messages away from home. Now "FaceTime"? It seems half arsed, at least in iChat it made sense and utilized more features such as SMS, MMS, etc from desktop/OS X/Windows systems to mobile platforms.

What has become of Resolution Independence, ZFS, improved graphics? These were all tested beta features in 10.5 and 10.6 that never made their way into GM builds. Apple seems to be cutting away at their professional desktop line. First their dedicated independent 20", 23", 30" ACD CCFL LCD line is cut and replaced with a stripped down iMac panel with cords too short for desktop systems (don't get me wrong, the LED LCD's by Apple are great, especially for the money). Then xServe, less Final Cut development, Shake is dropped, Apple moves developers off of OS X to iOS development and where are the steady 10.7 beta releases for developers?

Jobs said the desktop isn't dead, but with so much focus on consumer grade electronics while hacking away at the professional end of Apple products, I fear iOS will replace OS X. If only Apple built a mid-tower, a system between a top-line iMac and Mac Pro that would use a Core i7+, allow for upgradability and not cost $2500+ (before they went to Intel chips, the Power Mac G5 was a great buy at around $1500). Love my iPad and Apple TV, but c'mon Apple, enough with this iOS. Give me an OS to sink my teeth into and a reasonably priced professional tower lol.



el-John-o
Jan 27, 2011, 12:25 PM
I'm sure it's been discussed ad nauseum, but I'm growing weary of Apple's focus (lack thereof) on desktop systems and OS X. I posted this on a front page thread but I'm curious as to any one's thoughts on the matter.

I miss the days when OS X Leopard/Snow Leopard beta's were consistently released with new features and MacRumors was abuzz with OS X news.

There was a feature in a 10.5 Leopard beta in iChat called "Answering Machine". You could record a voice or video away message and your friends could leave you recorded video messages. There was talk about incorporating phone numbers via VoIP/Landlines into the system, allowing access to your messages through another computer/mobile device. You could listen to or watch your messages away from home. Now "FaceTime"? It seems half arsed, at least in iChat it made sense and utilized more features such as SMS, MMS, etc from desktop/OS X/Windows systems to mobile platforms.

What has become of Resolution Independence, ZFS, improved graphics? These were all tested beta features in 10.5 and 10.6 that never made their way into GM builds. Apple seems to be cutting away at their professional desktop line. First their dedicated independent 20", 23", 30" ACD CCFL LCD line is cut and replaced with a stripped down iMac panel with cords too short for desktop systems (don't get me wrong, the LED LCD's by Apple are great, especially for the money). Then xServe, less Final Cut development, Shake is dropped, Apple moves developers off of OS X to iOS development and where are the steady 10.7 beta releases for developers?

Jobs said the desktop isn't dead, but with so much focus on consumer grade electronics while hacking away at the professional end of Apple products, I fear iOS will replace OS X. If only Apple built a mid-tower, a system between a top-line iMac and Mac Pro that would use a Core i7+, allow for upgradability and not cost $2500+ (before they went to Intel chips, the Power Mac G5 was a great buy at around $1500). Love my iPad and Apple TV, but c'mon Apple, enough with this iOS. Give me an OS to sink my teeth into and a reasonably priced professional tower lol.

Quoted for Truth.

It's the mobile market altogether. Recently an analyst said that in 5 years, you won't be able to go to a brick and mortar store and purchase a desktop computer. Natrually, they will be available, but it will be laptops only. Look at best buy now, it's ALL laptops, and a little section of inexpensive desktops (at least around here.)

I am a little worried, too, that our beloved Mac will go south, and we'll be stuck with, well, you know, the "W". I am very disappointed that the only affordable consumer desktop is just a laptop without a monitor (the Mac Mini), 2.5" hard drive, mobile GPU, the works. Remember when Apple had reasonably priced computers with excellent hardware and upgrade-ability? I miss that.

Naturally, you've got the iMac, but that's not at all upgradeable. I would also love to see Apple look into AMD. AMD and Intel chips work the same, nothing had to be recompiled (I have to say that, someone told me that Mac won't run on AMD and they aren't going to "develop" for two platforms. They don't have to, at all, just a CPU driver.) Anyway, AMD right now has a fantastic line of comparable performing CPU's at a substantially lower price, imagine a mid tower with a Phenom X2, or even a Phenom X4 (Phenom II 965 if what I have in my desktop, it screams, it's a quad core, and it cost me less than a Core2Duo). Just anything to save that market. I wanna use Mac OS dangit! I love iOS, I really do, on my phone, and on my iPad. My PC? Nope. Huh-uh. I'll format it and run Linux before I boot an iOS clone.

Now, I don't have a problem with lion. It's "extra" features, but when that becomes the desktop environment, no thank you.

-John

chrismacguy
Jan 27, 2011, 01:39 PM
Quoted for Truth.

It's the mobile market altogether. Recently an analyst said that in 5 years, you won't be able to go to a brick and mortar store and purchase a desktop computer. Natrually, they will be available, but it will be laptops only. Look at best buy now, it's ALL laptops, and a little section of inexpensive desktops (at least around here.)

I am a little worried, too, that our beloved Mac will go south, and we'll be stuck with, well, you know, the "W". I am very disappointed that the only affordable consumer desktop is just a laptop without a monitor (the Mac Mini), 2.5" hard drive, mobile GPU, the works. Remember when Apple had reasonably priced computers with excellent hardware and upgrade-ability? I miss that.

Naturally, you've got the iMac, but that's not at all upgradeable. I would also love to see Apple look into AMD. AMD and Intel chips work the same, nothing had to be recompiled (I have to say that, someone told me that Mac won't run on AMD and they aren't going to "develop" for two platforms. They don't have to, at all, just a CPU driver.) Anyway, AMD right now has a fantastic line of comparable performing CPU's at a substantially lower price, imagine a mid tower with a Phenom X2, or even a Phenom X4 (Phenom II 965 if what I have in my desktop, it screams, it's a quad core, and it cost me less than a Core2Duo). Just anything to save that market. I wanna use Mac OS dangit! I love iOS, I really do, on my phone, and on my iPad. My PC? Nope. Huh-uh. I'll format it and run Linux before I boot an iOS clone.

Now, I don't have a problem with lion. It's "extra" features, but when that becomes the desktop environment, no thank you.

-John

I think its not that the Mac will go. I think that it will become a premium Desktop product, for Mac Pros and MacBook Pros only.

Andeavor
Jan 27, 2011, 02:43 PM
People want portability. We've seen it with laptops taking over as the first choice for a home or office computer unless you are a gamer or computer technician that needs the full power of the current computer hardware, which to this day is reserved to desktops.

Nowadays with smartphones, companies are putting more effort in selling products for the handheld market which are currently more in trend as desktop computers.

I've sort of made peace with iOS but not since after I got the iPhone myself just recently. I am curious, though, how the future of OS X is since they're trying to implement some features currently exclusive to iOS, but despite that, I'm sure that soon tables will turn and a future version of OS X will take everyone's attention.

MacDawg
Jan 27, 2011, 02:53 PM
Hard for me to get worked up about the direction things are heading when I don't know what it will really look like... and when we do, we will already be heading down the path to the next thing.

Change happens... the way we consume our information, the way we work in our jobs. I believe the convergence of iOS and OSX is a way to adapt. Everyone said they wanted OSX on the iPad. But it was not the right decision. Nobody wants iOS on the desktop. That isn't the right decision either. Perhaps we will end up with a hybrid that works on both, or maybe something closer at least. Who knows.

People cried when the floppy was removed from the desktop
People complained when Classic was orphaned

An OS needs to change and adapt
If you stop moving, you die
And if an OS ignores the importance of the mobile devices, the cloud and whatever is next, it does so at its own peril

el-John-o
Jan 27, 2011, 03:54 PM
Hard for me to get worked up about the direction things are heading when I don't know what it will really look like... and when we do, we will already be heading down the path to the next thing.

Change happens... the way we consume our information, the way we work in our jobs. I believe the convergence of iOS and OSX is a way to adapt. Everyone said they wanted OSX on the iPad. But it was not the right decision. Nobody wants iOS on the desktop. That isn't the right decision either. Perhaps we will end up with a hybrid that works on both, or maybe something closer at least. Who knows.

People cried when the floppy was removed from the desktop
People complained when Classic was orphaned

An OS needs to change and adapt
If you stop moving, you die
And if an OS ignores the importance of the mobile devices, the cloud and whatever is next, it does so at its own peril

These are valid points, my issue is not the OS though, but the hardware. I enjoy sitting at my desk working on a desktop computer. Despite the fact that most of my tasks COULD be accomplished with a notebook, I prefer the speed and switfness of my desktop, especially since the cost was LESS than a laptop half as fast. Docking is an excellent solution too, Apples new Cinema display does that well, (too bad it's not 30" anymore, that was a beautiful, massive displauy!), but even then, I could spend $999 for a MacBook, OR $699 for an identical-inside Mac Mini, or $400 on a comparable PC. OR, I could do what I usually do, and spend $999 on a high end desktop, and purchase a low-end Windows Laptop for on-the-go productivity.

I can foresee the iMac kicking the bucket, meaning my solution won't be usable on a Mac anymore, it's either a MacBook, or spend double that on a Mac Pro.

ThomasJL
Feb 1, 2011, 03:50 PM
I'm sure it's been discussed ad nauseum,
Jobs said the desktop isn't dead, but with so much focus on consumer grade electronics while hacking away at the professional end of Apple products, I fear iOS will replace OS X.

Since 1987, I have preferred the Mac OS to Windows. If iOS replaces OS X, I will switch to Windows.

zenio
Feb 3, 2011, 03:58 PM
Since 1987, I have preferred the Mac OS to Windows. If iOS replaces OS X, I will switch to Windows.
You are right. This really is the bottom line for most of us who use a computer for what it's designed for. Work.

Especially the heavy lifting of 3D design and other mathematic and scientific work like I do daily.

Apple's drunk on money.

Lots and lots of money, as they migrate as fast as they can to being the worlds top consumer electronics and entertainment company. I don't fault them for that, but I am disappointed at how fast they are turning their products into appliances. I am used to, and quick to, embrace change. It's what we do at work. We change things and create things.

Yet I hate to see the Mac I love, go the way of the dodo bird.

Fortunately I'm already working in a multi-platform environment, so I have great PC based laptops I use now. There will be little or no transition for me at all.

Just missing the Mac, I bet the party's already over, we just don't have it from the MacIntosh Mouth.

JKK photography
Feb 3, 2011, 05:43 PM
Since 1987, I have preferred the Mac OS to Windows. If iOS replaces OS X, I will switch to Windows.

So what if Apple comes along with the next version of the Mac operating system. It is based around iOS. However, they have a UI that is obviously designed for a fully functioning computer.

The computer runs an ARM processor. Quad core, clocked at, say, 2.8 GHz. Great battery life (15-20 hours). Significantly lighter. SSD only, size ranges from 256 to 1 tb.

Let's say this happens in, oh, 8 years.

To me, this is just a natural evolution. It's nothing worth panicking over. We'll see how things look in a few years. Lion looks to be a very nice update that fixes some of the problems, and adds more features to the overall package.

bedifferent
Feb 15, 2011, 09:07 AM
So what if Apple comes along with the next version of the Mac operating system. It is based around iOS. However, they have a UI that is obviously designed for a fully functioning computer.

The computer runs an ARM processor. Quad core, clocked at, say, 2.8 GHz. Great battery life (15-20 hours). Significantly lighter. SSD only, size ranges from 256 to 1 tb.

Let's say this happens in, oh, 8 years.

To me, this is just a natural evolution. It's nothing worth panicking over. We'll see how things look in a few years. Lion looks to be a very nice update that fixes some of the problems, and adds more features to the overall package.

Smaller doesn't mean better, and a processor such as the above would not work well for those in the graphic design/film editing industry. Having 2 24" displays for engineering and design work sometimes isn't enough, and even my 6-Core 3.33GHz system isn't as fast in high def rendering. The hardware described above would be great for portables, and I wouldn't say 8 years as that tech is mostly available to date. For a desktop system that needs power and screen real estate, this doesn't float.

Oh, and iOS/OS X aren't similar… yet. If they become similar, that's when Apple will officially become a consumer based tech company and not a computer company for serious professionals. No dedicated display line, mid-level tower, XServe, OS X 10.7 Developer beta's, more iDevices,lack of native 64-bit apps such as iLife '11, no Resolution Independence, ZFS+, more focus on iOS, etc = leading to the demise of Pro-sumer Apple products.

syc23
Feb 16, 2011, 06:19 AM
I certainly hope the Mac will not be killed off as I use my G5 tower in the design studio and don't have a need for a laptop.

How long this will last nobody knows but as more people have the capability to work from home then in the next 10 years, I would imagine your iPad type machine will be the main portable (like a sheet of glass like in Avatar). You then take the tablet home, put onto a little dock on your desk and you continue to work away from your large glass display on your desk and your wireless keyboard.

One thing I don't want in the new Lion is not to have the desktop icons/folders all 'locked'. I like the fact that I'm in charge of all the folders and if it's a mess, I'll just tidy it up in my own time.

karsten
Feb 16, 2011, 08:56 AM
i dont think the mobile hype will last forever. once the home/pro users get vocal enough and organized maybe they can be a force to contend with. you can't get everything accomplished on a 3" cellphone screen, afterall. hopefully apple's 'back to the mac' theme will continue for some time now.

maflynn
Feb 16, 2011, 09:24 AM
An OS needs to change and adapt
If you stop moving, you die
Yes, a valid point, but I think the OPs contention is not whether OSX is static, but rather apple's focus on improving OSX.

There's a difference to adapt OSX to a more iOS centric design and improving the OS with a modern file system, resolution independence. I fear that apple is going to "maintain" OSX and not improve it. They're focusing on the mobile market and I can see why, but don't ignore the desktop sector as thats still a valid and needed market.

Thunderbird
Feb 16, 2011, 09:32 PM
Yes, a valid point, but I think the OPs contention is not whether OSX is static, but rather apple's focus on improving OSX.

There's a difference to adapt OSX to a more iOS centric design and improving the OS with a modern file system, resolution independence. I fear that apple is going to "maintain" OSX and not improve it. They're focusing on the mobile market and I can see why, but don't ignore the desktop sector as thats still a valid and needed market.

Excellent points, mayflynn. I agree, I don't think anyone is going to contend that OS X is not evolving. It just seems to have taken a back seat to all the development of hand held devices over the past 5 or 6 six years.

It seems that when the iPhone came out (circa 2007) is when the focus started to shift gradually away from desktop developement. The last really exciting news I can remember about anything related to the desktop was when Apple switched to Intel chips. That opened the door to Bootcamp, and there was a sense things were going to really move ahead, especially with Windows Vista being such a flop. It felt like Apple was going to chip away at the desktop market in bigger chunks. Thats' when the expectations around all these promised features (e.g. resolution indpendence, more configurability, improvments to Finder, Blu-Ray support, etc) began to grow. But when Leopard came out, none of these features materialized. Then Snow Leopard came and went and ended up actually lowering people's expectations. Now in the wake of a fairly tame Lion preview, we are left wondering just what is going on in the Apple desktop world.

I don't know if it's because Apple decided they have lost the desktop war or that there's no more growth in that area, and thus have chosen to concentrate on their winning streak with hand held devices, or whether they might have something remarkable up their desktop sleeve they're waiting to spring on us, but it does seem like we're overdue for a major upgrade to OS X. If it turns out there are no really breakthrough features forthcoming in Lion, then maybe it really is the beginning of the end for desktop development, and we'd have to face the fact that Apple's future lies in everything mobile.

maflynn
Feb 17, 2011, 08:00 AM
If it turns out there are no really breakthrough features forthcoming in Lion, then maybe it really is the beginning of the end for desktop development, and we'd have to face the fact that Apple's future lies in everything mobile.

I love OSX, its a great OS but windows 7 has a lot going for it. Also Microsoft has made many statements that they intend to continue to improve the OS, so windows 8 should have new features that extend and improve the OS.

My point of raising this? Well if apple allows OSX to whither on the vine, then I'll move to an OS that has a better long term viability. I still buy macs, I own a MBP and a mini but if OSX is not going to be improved, its hard to justify paying the apple-tax when the OS is falling behind the competition and the long term viability is looking less positive.

Am I jumping to conclusions prematurely - yeah. Only when 10.7 is released will we begin to see apple's direction for OSX. At that point we'll know if apple is serious with the iPadification of OSX or they'll provide some updates.

With 10.6 we were told the changes were mostly under the hood and that subsequent updates will use those changes and that 10.7 will be a more significant update. Only time will tell if that will be the case

Winter Charm
Feb 17, 2011, 09:49 PM
While I haven't been around that long, one thing I've personally noticed is the convergence of iOS and the Mac OSX.

However, as you pointed out, we dont want them to get too close to eachother. Look at what happened when microsoft released windows 7 to be tablet compatible as well as a desktop OS. where are all those windows tablets? They don't work too well.

I hope and pray that apple does not make the same mistake. Keep iOS as iOS, and Mac OS X as a Mac OS X.

Things like launchpad and other features that are coming to Lion take stuff from the iOS that can be usefully implemented on the Mac OS platform, but some things should never carry over.

I like the app store, and the fullscreen apps, because there are relevant and good ways to implement them. They also give the device versatility.

Again, While the two come closer together, Apple is a smart company, and will NEVER let them get too close to eachother.

Lynxpoint
Feb 17, 2011, 11:52 PM
Here is my take:

Desktop computers are a mature technology. Yes, thee is a constant flow of newer CPUs, memory, etc, but how often do changes that really affect how we use the machines come out?

I think Apple is taking the approach of introducing change when it really changes how we work with technology, in a good way. I think these changes will be reflected in OS X.

It is one thing to clamor for the 'latest and greatest', but how much of it is really an advancement?

Thats my take after 20+ years of using and working with computing technology.

redvettez06
Feb 18, 2011, 06:30 PM
Here is my take:

Desktop computers are a mature technology. Yes, thee is a constant flow of newer CPUs, memory, etc, but how often do changes that really affect how we use the machines come out?

I think Apple is taking the approach of introducing change when it really changes how we work with technology, in a good way. I think these changes will be reflected in OS X.

It is one thing to clamor for the 'latest and greatest', but how much of it is really an advancement?

Thats my take after 20+ years of using and working with computing technology.

I sure hope so. One thing to note is that people have been trying (in vain) to find the next input device for home computers and laptops. With portable device touchcreens, it was easy to naturally draw people into a new and very functional experience because of how inefficient phones and tablets were before touchscreens. Contrast that with computers and we really haven't seen anything better than a mouse and keyboard....yet, but there is still hope. This hope is through body gesture interfaces such as Kinect. Isn't it ironic that it is Microsoft (they invent copy and paste didn't they? ;) ) is taking the concept of gesture based interfaces to the mass market level?

I know the camera technology was developed by an Isreali company but it has been MS that has driven the vision of gesture based commands and it is being embraced not just by the average consumer but also by PC users who have taken the tech into many different directions. To paraphrase the great scientist Dr. Emmett Brown, "If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits mainstream, you're gonna see some serious ****!" Desktops aren't going anywhere and Apple hopefully won't abandon them.

roadbloc
Feb 19, 2011, 07:47 AM
I agree with many people's concerns, which is why I've jumped the ship already and gone back to Windows. With the theory that the Mac App Store will be the only way to install apps on OS X in a few years to come, I'm not having my workstation turned into a app riddled toy. My iPhone is for that. If the MAS becomes the only way, programs I use will be locked out of the OS X environment. Digidesign and Propellerhead have both said that they will probably never submit their apps to the app store.

It isn't the only reason I've switched back. I'm soon going to be a father and I simply cannot afford the Apple Tax anymore. I'd rather go back to the cheaper PC, especially since Windows 7 is actually pretty damn good.

bedifferent
Feb 19, 2011, 12:12 PM
I didn't believe my "rant" would get any attention lol :)

I haven't read most of the responses, but from what I did read I'm glad I was able to get people thinking about the pro's and con's.

Personally, I certainly hope Apple doesn't abandon ship. Intel has been working with Apple on "Light Peak":

Apple and Intel Collaborate on Next Generation 'Light Peak' Connectors? (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/26/apple-and-intel-collaborate-on-next-generation-light-peak-connectors/)

The technology could eventually replace the use of Firewire, USB and even display connectors in the future. Engadget has since revealed that 'Light Peak' was actually originally conceived of by Apple and brought to Intel.


Intel Light Peak tech coming--will Apple follow? (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20021658-64.html)

what about 3D displays? I recall Apple hired a guy from MIT to design "clothing" for OS interactivity.

Apple hires 'Senior Prototype Engineer' for work on wearable computing (http://blogs.computerworld.com/15750/apple_hires_senior_prototype_engineer_for_work_on_wearable_computers)

DeVaul will be working under Jonny Ive in a secret lab focused on wearable computing technology where only seven people besides Ive and CEO Steve Jobs know what he is doing.



OS X-esque system on a 3D display? (perhaps better suited for gaming):

Head Tracking for Desktop VR Displays using the WiiRemote (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw)

Of course all this tech could be implemented into portable devices. "Light Peak" would replace FireWire/USB/Mini-DisplayPort/DVI/HDMI/etc. as it sends/receives high speed fiber optic data. Imagine less parts such as USB/FireWire controllers and ports, and only a few "Light Peak" ports on a MacBook, iMac and Mac Pro. Smaller form factors while gaining speed. Some companies are already designing USB adapters if "Light Peak" makes it. USB 3.0, SATA III, and SSD's, all great tech but Apple seems more focused on iDevices. Developers have not seen any OS X beta's and there has been only one Apple announcement on Lion. The "App Store" isn't anything other than an iOS based concept, allowing companies with their current OS X applications a forefront for their products. It's "MacUpdate" on steroids, and now Apple is making 30% revenue on those applications.

If OS X Lion doesn't offer OpenGL 3.0+ support, Resolution Independence, a streamlined Finder/GUI, increased focus on native 64-bit app's such as "iLife" and hardware improvements such as USB 3.0 or even "Light Peak", 2011 will be a disappointment for those who use Apple Desktops and Pro-Apps for their careers. Apple's iPhone, iPad and low end MacBook's along with the ITMS have made "Apple Electronics, Inc" a powerhouse, but for the "average" consumer market. There IS a market for professionals who need a mid-level Intel or AMD tower and a dedicated display line. I Apple doesn't focus even a little bit of that now $60 billion cash reserve into Prosumer products, OS X is officially dead to me and many. That sucks as we have all invested a lot of time and money in Apple hardware and software.

Thunderbird
Feb 19, 2011, 02:00 PM
If Lion doesn't offer most of those features you just mentioned, I think it will be a sign that Apple is going to treat desktop macs like "trucks", and either let the desktop OS wither on the vine, or as Maflynn suggests, only offer "maintainance" type of OS releases, with slight improvements here and there.

I believe Lion is going to be a harbinger of what's to come. If Lion is a vast improvment over Snow Leopard, it will mean they haven't abandoned the desktop OS and are actively developing it and going forward with it. On the other hand, if Lion doesn't offer too much more than what we already saw at the preview back in October, then Lion is going to represent the begining of the end. In which case i suspect more people are going to jump ship. Apple can't afford to dishearten its comparatively small user base by offering up the equivalent of a Windows Vista.

Lynxpoint
Feb 19, 2011, 06:04 PM
Thunderbird,

I think the answers will come soon enough. XCode 4 (I don't know anything about it - I am not a developer) should at this point be linked to whatever Lion is going to deliver. I hope there is a developer announcement soon that reveals what the new XCode delivers wrt Lion, and hopefully this will also give strong clues as to where the hardware is going.

bedifferent
Feb 20, 2011, 09:38 AM
Thunderbird,

I think the answers will come soon enough. XCode 4 (I don't know anything about it - I am not a developer) should at this point be linked to whatever Lion is going to deliver. I hope there is a developer announcement soon that reveals what the new XCode delivers wrt Lion, and hopefully this will also give strong clues as to where the hardware is going.

I've been using XCode 4 for a while, and I can't say much other than don't expect a great deal. However, this may not reflect on Lion as we haven't seen any beta's. There may be some serious changes, who knows, but developers are a bit stunned that we have not seen one beta given that so many beta's were released to us with Tiger/Leopard/Snow Leopard for at least a year until the GM release.

karsten
Feb 20, 2011, 01:11 PM
I've been using XCode 4 for a while, and I can't say much other than don't expect a great deal. However, this may not reflect on Lion as we haven't seen any beta's. There may be some serious changes, who knows, but developers are a bit stunned that we have not seen one beta given that so many beta's were released to us with Tiger/Leopard/Snow Leopard for at least a year until the GM release.

agreed it's a little odd. maybe they've been keeping it more secretive and doing more internal testing than usual

gofightlose
Feb 20, 2011, 10:03 PM
For me, I can see all of these problems rooting back to who apple thinks as their target customers. Just a few years back, apple was more of an industrial company catering to professionals, but ever since shifting into the mainstream there's been a huge push to making all of their products more consumer friendly. In all reality, we, people who have somewhat of a depth of computer knowledge, are really in the minority. The reason the ipad is so popular, and will continue to be successful, is because everyone can use it, from grandmas to presidents...which also means simplification. I just hope that they can return to improving their professional line...it does feel like they are lagging behind.

bedifferent
Feb 22, 2011, 09:53 AM
For me, I can see all of these problems rooting back to who apple thinks as their target customers. Just a few years back, apple was more of an industrial company catering to professionals, but ever since shifting into the mainstream there's been a huge push to making all of their products more consumer friendly. In all reality, we, people who have somewhat of a depth of computer knowledge, are really in the minority. The reason the ipad is so popular, and will continue to be successful, is because everyone can use it, from grandmas to presidents...which also means simplification. I just hope that they can return to improving their professional line...it does feel like they are lagging behind.

Hit the nail on the head. Given Apple Electronics, Inc.'s recent actions of eliminating XServe and producing Cinema LED LCD's with cables barely long enough to fit a Mac Pro, et al, I don't see a shift towards the Prosumer market any time soon, if at all.

This recent patent application for "Safe Deposit Box" is an example of Apple "dumbing down" names for the average consumer to understand. "Mission Control"? "Magic Mouse"? What's next, "Mighty Mouse 10.8"?? I miss the days of OS X, PowerMac's and a great dedicated display line. No 10.7 beta's for a summer release is baffling.

CyberCat
Feb 22, 2011, 04:41 PM
Hit the nail on the head. Given Apple Electronics, Inc.'s recent actions of eliminating XServe and producing Cinema LED LCD's with cables barely long enough to fit a Mac Pro, et al, I don't see a shift towards the Prosumer market any time soon, if at all.

This recent patent application for "Safe Deposit Box" is an example of Apple "dumbing down" names for the average consumer to understand. "Mission Control"? "Magic Mouse"? What's next, "Mighty Mouse"?? I miss the days of OS X, PowerMac's and a great dedicated display line. No 10.7 beta's for a summer release is baffling.

Agree 100%. I'm really getting the impression that Apple is starting to abandon Pro users. I suspect from Apple's perspective there just isn't as much to be made in the pro market vs. consumer market where they can release new products annually that people will buy, whereas I feel Pro users will buy their tools (Xserve, Mac Pro, etc.) for 3-5 years of use. It's obvious the new Apple display is really only intended for use with mobile systems with its 1m cable and MacBook-specific connectors. Add to that the lack of any serious updates across the board to virtually any of Apple's Pro Apps within the last year, and I think the directing is shifting more and more to consumer electronics. A shame too considering Apple's foothold in the industry they worked so hard to get.

Signal-11
Feb 23, 2011, 01:13 AM
This recent patent application for "Safe Deposit Box" is an example of Apple "dumbing down" names for the average consumer to understand. "Mission Control"? "Magic Mouse"? What's next, "Mighty Mouse 10.8"?? I miss the days of OS X, PowerMac's and a great dedicated display line. No 10.7 beta's for a summer release is baffling.

There was an Apple Mighty Mouse, remember? It was the last one before this one.

admanimal
Feb 23, 2011, 02:19 AM
This recent patent application for "Safe Deposit Box" is an example of Apple "dumbing down" names for the average consumer to understand.

What is the crime in calling a feature "Safe Deposit Box" rather than something like "256-bit AES File Encryption"? Why is it bad to use terms that allow the average person (i.e. most people using OS X) to understand what the point of something is?

I agree that the Magic/Mighty mouse names are lame, but in general there is nothing wrong with using familiar terms to describe a feature rather than jargon.

VPrime
Feb 23, 2011, 02:54 AM
Apple has always had witty names for os features....
Spot light
Automator
Spaces
Expose
Boot camp.

Their naming is hardly something to cause worry.

The day apple creates an iOS SDK available for windows that is the day you should worry about the future of a fully blown os/ desktop computer.

I have said this before and I'll continue saying it until there is proof that says otherwise.
Apple and developers go hand and hand. They can not create a handicapped system and expect developers to be able to create applications.

zorinlynx
Feb 23, 2011, 08:26 AM
I'm as concerned as anyone else about the future of Mac OS X, but I am looking on the bright side. The brightest side currently showing is that Macs are selling better than ever, and I'm SEEING them everywhere, so it's not just numbers on paper.

It feels like over half the laptops I see on campus are Macs. Most of them are newer Macs, like the unibody iBook, and the various Macbook Pros. Students are buying these things in droves.

Also, I work at a public state university, not a private college where students tend to be from wealthy families who can afford such things. So people LOVE Macs, are still buying them, and I doubt Apple will rock the boat too badly.

That's my bright side, hopefully it outshines some of the darkness. Lion shouldn't be as horrible as some predict it might be.

nonameowns
Feb 23, 2011, 11:43 AM
it inevitable

technology is becoming more powerful in mobile speaking and is wise to focus on that path. However, I'm curious of how lion will impact the future of osx.

maybe just ios ui on top of osx? or something else...

consumer base - 25% hardcore 75% average

yeah.

bedifferent
Feb 23, 2011, 03:57 PM
There was an Apple Mighty Mouse, remember? It was the last one before this one.

Yeah typo, I meant "Mighty Mouse OS X 10.8" :D

As for names, Exposé, Spotlight, those make sense. But "Safe Deposit Box"?? It's just "FileVault" on a cloud, and forgive me, but compared to previous app's, it just seems… wrong.

As for the latest announcement, time will tell. I'm not holding my breath for anything prosumer level. Snow Leopard was tweaked "under the hood", with little "consumer" flash. I have the sense Lion will have more "consumer" flash.

vincenz
Feb 23, 2011, 04:00 PM
The market goes where the money is. Right now, a lot of it is in mobile OS, so it's only natural that it's there. There was a time when it was mainly desktops...

bedifferent
Feb 23, 2011, 04:20 PM
The market goes where the money is. Right now, a lot of it is in mobile OS, so it's only natural that it's there. There was a time when it was mainly desktops...

Currently the market goes were Apple dictates it goes. Apple has been successful in one amazing aspect: creating a need/market where none existed. Before the iPhone the general consumer had RAZR's or Sony Ericsons or Nokia's, the general Apple user owned an iMac or PowerMac and used OS X for work in digital photography, graphic design, etc. Now every Soccer Mom and teenager who never had a need for a smart phone got one as it became "fashionable". Apple promoted the iPhone well before it was released, with a well publicized first commercial during the Oscars. It's a GREAT hype machine. in 2007, people waited in line for days for a phone, and Apple employees applauded them as they left, building consumer confidence and a sense of superiority… in a phone...

What about marketing in area's for prosumers? Greater quantity seems more important, yet don't discount the money prosumers and small businesses invest in Apple products. As well, once that money is invested, it is highly more likely that they will upgrade their systems and software steadily, so it may not be a HUGE market but a profitable one none the less. XServe? Gone. Replaced by a "Server" "Mac Pro". ACD's? Gone, replaced by a stripped down iMac LED LCD panel with cords too short for a desktop. Ground breaking OS X development? Not lately.

Now that Apple has created a demand for iPhones and iPads, and successfully went after a mass market, the professionals that use Mac's for PRODUCING and not CONSUMING are left with little options. Most individuals in my profession have already left for Windows systems. There isn't much faith in Apple hardware/OS X for the prosumer market. So if Apple decided on focusing on the masses, great, but in doing so they're disregarding those who need Apple for work and who supported Apple through tough times

bobr1952
Feb 23, 2011, 04:29 PM
I'm as concerned as anyone else about the future of Mac OS X, but I am looking on the bright side. The brightest side currently showing is that Macs are selling better than ever, and I'm SEEING them everywhere, so it's not just numbers on paper.

It feels like over half the laptops I see on campus are Macs. Most of them are newer Macs, like the unibody iBook, and the various Macbook Pros. Students are buying these things in droves.

Also, I work at a public state university, not a private college where students tend to be from wealthy families who can afford such things. So people LOVE Macs, are still buying them, and I doubt Apple will rock the boat too badly.

That's my bright side, hopefully it outshines some of the darkness. Lion shouldn't be as horrible as some predict it might be.

And what is going on with TV and movies--the aluminum must look really good on the big screen because it seems like that is the only kind of computer I ever see anymore--an Apple laptop or iMac.

bedifferent
Feb 23, 2011, 04:32 PM
And what is going on with TV and movies--the aluminum must look really good on the big screen because it seems like that is the only kind of computer I ever see anymore--an Apple laptop or iMac.

Exactly. I haven't seen Mac Pro's much. I think the last time I saw "professional" Mac's was in "Hulk" in 2003, when they showed lampshade iMac's and PowerMac G4's. Now it's portables, everywhere.

Ironic as Jobs has stated the desktop isn't dead…

admanimal
Feb 23, 2011, 07:50 PM
As for names, Exposé, Spotlight, those make sense. But "Safe Deposit Box"?? It's just "FileVault" on a cloud, and forgive me, but compared to previous app's, it just seems… wrong.


A safe deposit box is a secure place outside of your home that you can keep valuable/important things. "Safe Deposit Box" will provide a secure place outside of your computer/home to keep important files. Where is the confusion exactly?

bedifferent
Feb 23, 2011, 07:59 PM
A safe deposit box is a secure place outside of your home that you can keep valuable/important things. "Safe Deposit Box" will provide a secure place outside of your computer/home to keep important files. Where is the confusion exactly?

On my end? None. With you? It's the stupidest term I've read for an OS X application. What is this a bank or an OS? How about "Secure Cloud", or "FileVault Cloud"? Oh, because the average Joe would understand "Safe Deposit Box" and it's "cutesy" for all the computer illiterate iDevice masses Apple has drawn in. Point: "Mission Control", "Safe Deposit Box", OS X is being dumbed DOWN. Exposé was at least professional sounding. This crap? Donnez moi un break.

Lynxpoint
Feb 23, 2011, 08:21 PM
On my end? None. With you? It's the stupidest term I've read for an OS X application. What is this a bank or an OS? How about "Secure Cloud", or "FileVault Cloud"? Oh, because the average Joe would understand "Safe Deposit Box" and it's "cutesy" for all the computer illiterate iDevice masses Apple has drawn in. Point: "Mission Control", "Safe Deposit Box", OS X is being dumbed DOWN. Exposé was at least professional sounding. This crap? Donnez moi un break.

I have to disagree with you. People use tools because they have a need. People choose the tools they use for ease/comfort to get the job done.

Apple is always associated with ease of use. Think of the slogan 'it just works'. One of the things about Macs is the program names have often been cute and fun rather than techogeek. Its part of it being easy to use, and there is nothing inherently bad in tools being easy to use, unless you make your living using tools the average person can't or won't.

Microsoft learned this lesson a long time ago (some say from looking at Apple). At the time I sounded a little like you, saying they were 'dumbing it down'. At the end of the day however, it made my life easier. The calls asking 'how do I…?' dropped off.

There will always be computer 'geeks', just like there will always be car customizers, but for the vast majority of people, computers are tools which you want to be able to use productively. Part of that is making the interface intuitive, which includes names for programs people can understand.

This is from someone that likes to customize the UI, which makes my only dislike of the changes to Macs as of late being the locking down of customization options (read code signing on App store apps which breaks them if you change their resources, even if you resign them).

admanimal
Feb 23, 2011, 09:20 PM
On my end? None. With you? It's the stupidest term I've read for an OS X application. What is this a bank or an OS? How about "Secure Cloud", or "FileVault Cloud"? Oh, because the average Joe would understand "Safe Deposit Box" and it's "cutesy" for all the computer illiterate iDevice masses Apple has drawn in. Point: "Mission Control", "Safe Deposit Box", OS X is being dumbed DOWN. Exposé was at least professional sounding. This crap? Donnez moi un break.

Again, "Safe Deposit Box" tells you exactly what the feature does in universally familiar terms, which most people would agree makes it a good name. The fact that you find it insulting to your advanced computer knowledge is irrelevant and petty. I agree that "Mission Control" is questionable, but only because it sounds overly important without really telling you what it is supposed to do, not because it isn't technical sounding enough.

Apple's mission has always been to make computers for the "computer illiterate masses"; it just so happens that we're getting to the point where the technology is advanced and mature enough to really do that. It's what they were doing when they introduced us to the GUI and it's what they are continuing to do with making computers/other devices less intimidating in other ways.

flipster
Feb 23, 2011, 11:06 PM
I seriously thought I was the only one who noticed this -- but im not. I've only been with OS X for a year now (YAY FOR MY AWESOME IMAC!), pcs all the other years, but I have to say that I love it, and at the same time, I feel as though I miss my Windows (I NEVER THOUGHT THAT I WOULD SAY THAT). In a sense, ALL of Apple's attention has been on the iPhone and the iPad leaving what started the company in the dust, neglected.

Their products are very pricey, I can't afford most of them, and they've devoted every bit of attention to their mobile line. We used to hear these awesome rumors for OS X, and it just feels like Apple cared so much more about it back in 2008 rather than now.

I feel as though Apple releases maintenance updates for Snow Leopard every now and then, and are going to destroy it and turn it into some iOS crap. I also feel as though they spend 80% of their time on mobile and 20% of their time on the Mac.

I don't want to have to go back to Windows, but Windows 7 is a good operating system and I feel like Microsoft has been trying to improve and shifted their focus to Windows while Apple has done the opposite with their OS.

Just look around you. iPhone forum on this website: 2300 users viewing................................ Mac OS X forum: 240 users viewing