MacBook Pro Supplies Tightening Ahead of Potential Refresh [Archive] - Page 2

CplBadboy

Jan 27, 2011, 03:06 AM

'Bout time.

I highly doubt 13" anything, whether it be the MB or MBP, is being discontinued. I'm in college. I don't want, nor can I afford the 15" MBP. I do need more power than the MB and I absolutely require a SD card reader. I use that more than an optical drive (which I've only used recently to burn a cd for my grandma that doesn't like thumb drives). There are plenty other college students like me. Apple has a huge share of campus laptop purchases, most of them being 13" MBP by students like me that want portability and power, but can't afford the larger sized MBPs and MBA and need a larger hard drive than what the MBA offers. The white MBs are also big sellers for the less technologically-inclined students that want Macs.

So yeah, the 13-inchers are for students. As for this student, this is her wish list for the update:

- Sandy Bridge i3 and/or i5 for the 13" MBP and SB i3 for the white MB
- 4GB RAM starting point for regular MB
- SD reader for white MB (If they update the processor, up the RAM, and add an SD reader, I'd be willing to buy the regular MB instead of the MBP for the sake of price.)
- I could take or leave the optical drive. It would be cool if they dropped it from the 13-inchers, but I don't particularly care either way.
- I hope the update comes before March. My computer is dying and I really, really need a new one, but as I previously mentioned, I can't afford the 15" MBP and I'll be damned before I fork over $1100 for a C2D processor. Also, my dying laptop is a 15-incher and I despise the size. I thought that I'd like it when I first got it, but once I entered college and started transporting it more often, I came to loathe it.

Is it really too much to ask for a $1000+ laptop to sport more than a C2D processor? Really i-something should be a given. Last year, Apple could get away with it, because it's Apple. Now the company is just effing with us.

Then a 13" MBA would suit the everyday student. A 13" MBP isnt really worthy of being in the line up and isnt as fast as an Air in a lot of apps.

CplBadboy

Jan 27, 2011, 03:10 AM

I highly doubt this. The Air is very much a niche product, while the MacBook is far more appealing to the general consumer.

I do think the MacBook will eventually gain the high resolution display and the flash storage that the Air has, but I could never see the two product lines merging into one.

The Air is the new gen of notebooks. Its in Apples marketing for it so that would tell you that it is and will become a replacement for the horrible white out of place MB. The Air will see a price drop for the 13" model this year to bring it more in line with the now 13" MB pricing and voila, goodbye plasticky MB hello Alu lovely.

fpnc

Jan 27, 2011, 03:11 AM

...Seriously of all the MacBook models the MBP 13" has the least mineshare for me.
That might be true if you think that the only change to the MacBook Pros was going to be the shift to the Sandy Bridge CPU. However, if the 13" MacBook Pro lost the optical drive then there would be no reason why Apple couldn't add a discrete GPU to that model. Then top that off with a larger battery and the Sandy Bridge CPU and you've got a very clear distinction between this newly designed 13" MacBook Pro and the remainder of the non-Pro MacBook line (which will retain the Core 2 Duo processors and integrated graphics). If Apple dropped even a halfway decent, discrete GPU into a newly redesigned Sandy Bridge-based 13" MacBook Pro then I'm pretty certain that this model would quickly become the system of choice for most prosumers (unless they really needed high-end graphics and a larger display). Apple would probably be able to raise the base price by $100 to cover the improved GPU and significantly upgraded Sandy Bridge CPU.

That leaves the 11" MacBook Air as the only price-matching alternative to the old-school white MacBook and quite frankly I think many would choose the 11" MacBook Air over the current white MacBook (given that both use Core 2 Duos with the same integrated graphics). At that point anyone who was unhappy about the 1.4GHz CPU in the 11" MacBook Air could probably be convinced to purchase the faster-clocked and better-displayed 13" MacBook Air for $300 more (and also gain a larger SSD). They might even be convinced to buy one of the new Sandy Bridge-based 13" MacBook Pros (it would largely come down to a decision between weight/size and processing power, since both would likely use the same 13" 1440x900 pixel display).

Given the above here are some potential configurations and base price points (all unchanged from today's prices, except my suggested $100 increase on the 13" MacBook Pro):

13" white MacBook (Core 2 Duo, NVIDIA integrated graphics, HD, CD/DVD): $999
11" MacBook Air (Core 2 Duo, NVIDIA integrated graphics, SSD): $999
13" MacBook Air (Core 2 Duo, NVIDIA integrated graphics, SSD, SD card slot): $1299
13" MacBook Pro (Sandy Bridge Core i5, NVIDIA/ATI discrete graphics, HD or optional SSD, SD card slot): $1299
15" MacBook Pro (Sandy Bridge Core i5 or optional i7, NVIDIA/ATI discrete graphics, HD or optional SSD, or optional HD+SSD, SD card slot): $1799
17" MacBook Pro (Sandy Bridge Core i5 or optional i7 with up to quad-core, NVIDIA/ATI discrete graphics, HD or optional SSD, or optional HD+SSD, SD card slot, ExpressCard/34 slot): $2299

Note that the 15" and 17" models offer a new dual-drive option, one SSD and one large-capicity HD. This is made possible by the removal of the optical drive and as a bonus you'd probably get a bigger battery (just as with the new 13" MacBook Pro). The removal of the optical drive would also offer some other possibilities, like more USB ports, adding an ExpressCard/34 slot to the 13" and 15" MacBook Pros, and physically separate audio in/out ports on the 13" MacBook Pro. This would mean that all of the Pro models could have exactly the same port configurations: Ethernet, mini DisplayPort, Firewire 800, three USB 2.0 ports, ExpressCard slot, SD card slot, analog/optical audio in port, analog/optical audio out port. Frankly, with this lineup of MacBook Pros and the current MacBook Airs (which won't be changed in this same upgrade cycle with the MacBook Pros) I really think it is pretty obvious that the white MacBook is nearing the end. It will probably only be kept for the cost-sensitive and K-12 education markets and the people who don't understand the advantages of an SSD and who see no benefit in a smaller and lower-weight system. Basically, it will be for those people who look at PCs and Macs and can't really see any difference (or who don't care about the differences).

The only price difficulty I can see from the above is the jump from the low-end $999 models to the 13" MacBook Air or Pro starting at $1299. If that proved to be too large of a gap then Apple could offer a 13" MacBook Pro without the discrete graphics at $1199 (this would rely upon Intel's integrated graphics in the new Sandy Bridge CPU). The latter would restore the pricing structures that we have today.

ScaryMerry

Jan 27, 2011, 03:24 AM

Then a 13" MBA would suit the everyday student. A 13" MBP isnt really worthy of being in the line up and isnt as fast as an Air in a lot of apps.

I need a larger hard drive than what the MBA offers and even then, I couldn't afford it. And I don't want the 11-incher. It's too small (plus, I have an iPad). I need power and portability at an affordable price, please, with a decent-sized hard drive. I need to be able to run Parallels. The current MBP 13" offering is perfect for me except for the processor. Again, it shouldn't be too much to ask for a $1200 device to have something more powerful than C2D.

Heilage

Jan 27, 2011, 03:28 AM

I hope they stick with the current design, but do some minor upgrades, like resolution and Sandy Bridge. I'd rather have the choice to throw the optical drive out and put a far better SSD in than for Apple to make that choice for me.

Terminal.app

Jan 27, 2011, 03:29 AM

That's great, I just bought a 15" Core i5 MBP.....thanks....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::mad::mad::mad:

Just quoted you to say that I love your username :D

I doubt Apple will be putting quads into the 13 MBP.

They'll have to when Ivy Bridge is out and Core 2 Duos are finally EOL'd.

It has been speculated that Ivy Bridge may replace dual-core processors with quad-core processors at the entry level segment, while delivering eight-core processors for mainstream and higher-end level segments.

Then again, there's no reason why they couldn't have already implemented existing mobile quads such as the i7-740QM or i7-2630QM.

Casing is going to be white with a retina display:-)

I hope you're joking with the "retina" thing.

my laptop was $4,000+ now the equivalent is over $1,000 cheaper

Hoooooooooly shhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiznit. :eek:

Frosticus

Jan 27, 2011, 03:30 AM

The current MB would surely stay as the entry-level laptop for Apple, although it might adopt the SSD if the unit cost can be kept down. I'm unsure about the 13" MBP... so long as they beef it up, it should stay. I'd agree with other posters that the MBA is still a niche, but one likely to grow as optical drives and platter style hard drives are phased out.

Any news on iMac refresh and Lion though?? I have been waiting with my wad of money ever since the Lion preview... getting my iMac and iPad2 in the next few months... so long as Apple hurry up and release them already..!

Santabean2000

Jan 27, 2011, 03:37 AM

People still use optical drives and Mac OS X is still doesn't have a TRIM equivalent for forestalling flash memory degradation.

People still ride horses too...

OSX doesn't suffer the same degradation as Windows:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/apple/2010/07/01/mac-ssd-performance-trim-in-osx/1
(Summary here: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/apple/2010/07/01/mac-ssd-performance-trim-in-osx/7)

And modern SSDs are much better with block managing and wear levels.

And then, even the slowest SSD will STILL kick the *** of any HDD you'll find in an Apple computer!

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 03:45 AM

I am hoping Apple will finally drop the ODDs from the pro lineup... and everybody seems forget that Apple just released the Appstore, an internet based alternative to CDs for programs. Apple already has plenty of movies and media on iTunes (which I personally don't care for, but hey, its an excuse to ditch DVDs)
Also, Apple recently made an external superdrive for the air, and if pro users whine too much and still need their superdrive, Apple will suck even more money from consumer's pockets and gladly sell them an external superdrive.
Remember, Apple is not necessarily concerned so much with functionality and performance (ie, keeping the outdated c2d for so long) as they are with design and battery life, which is why I think they will ditch the ODDs and slim the case a bit and/or add more battery life to the pro lineup.

You seem to forget that (a) Internet bandwidth isn't fast enough to download or install some programs in a timely manner, let alone within the same twelve hour span of time, (b) that the Mac App Store doesn't have big-name programs like, Microsoft Office, any of the Adobe apps, or any of the Apple Pro apps save for Remote Desktop and Aperture (gee, you think that might be because all of their other apps are just too big to not be distributed on DVDs? Or is that too obvious of a conclusion.), and (c) there are still many of us who still rely on the use of an internal ODD. Bear in mind that the 13" MacBook Pro and the white MacBook both have the best battery life out of any of their other laptops, including the Air, and both have ODDs.

'Bout time.

I highly doubt 13" anything, whether it be the MB or MBP, is being discontinued. I'm in college. I don't want, nor can I afford the 15" MBP. I do need more power than the MB and I absolutely require a SD card reader. I use that more than an optical drive (which I've only used recently to burn a cd for my grandma that doesn't like thumb drives). There are plenty other college students like me. Apple has a huge share of campus laptop purchases, most of them being 13" MBP by students like me that want portability and power, but can't afford the larger sized MBPs and MBA and need a larger hard drive than what the MBA offers. The white MBs are also big sellers for the less technologically-inclined students that want Macs.

So yeah, the 13-inchers are for students. As for this student, this is her wish list for the update:

- Sandy Bridge i3 and/or i5 for the 13" MBP and SB i3 for the white MB
- 4GB RAM starting point for regular MB
- SD reader for white MB (If they update the processor, up the RAM, and add an SD reader, I'd be willing to buy the regular MB instead of the MBP for the sake of price.)
- I could take or leave the optical drive. It would be cool if they dropped it from the 13-inchers, but I don't particularly care either way.
- I hope the update comes before March. My computer is dying and I really, really need a new one, but as I previously mentioned, I can't afford the 15" MBP and I'll be damned before I fork over $1100 for a C2D processor. Also, my dying laptop is a 15-incher and I despise the size. I thought that I'd like it when I first got it, but once I entered college and started transporting it more often, I came to loathe it.

Is it really too much to ask for a $1000+ laptop to sport more than a C2D processor? Really i-something should be a given. Last year, Apple could get away with it, because it's Apple. Now the company is just effing with us.

You open by saying that you need more computer than the white MacBook, but can't afford the 15" Pro, citing the 13" Pro as the target because it is a more powerful computer, which is false as both are essentially the same computer sans the SD card slot, the Aluminum enclosure, the FireWire 800 port, and the IR sensor. Same CPU, same chipset, virtually same logic board, for crying out loud. That is unless you're getting the 2.66 GHz model, but why would you if you're on a budget?

The Air is the new gen of notebooks. Its in Apples marketing for it so that would tell you that it is and will become a replacement for the horrible white out of place MB. The Air will see a price drop for the 13" model this year to bring it more in line with the now 13" MB pricing and voila, goodbye plasticky MB hello Alu lovely.

That'd make sense were it not for the fact that the white MacBook is the most durable out of all of them and the most affordable full-featured of their laptop line, making it prime for education users, let alone anyone who either doesn't need 13" Pro features or can't afford the 13" Pro. Nice try though.

That might be true if you think that the only change to the MacBook Pros was going to be the shift to the Sandy Bridge CPU. However, if the 13" MacBook Pro lost the optical drive then there would be no reason why Apple couldn't add a discrete GPU to that model.

Your argument loses just about all of its weight here. As do most arguments that are prefaced with "if the 13" MacBook Pro lost its optical drive...".

I need a larger hard drive than what the MBA offers and even then, I couldn't afford it. And I don't want the 11-incher. It's too small (plus, I have an iPad). I need power and portability at an affordable price, please, with a decent-sized hard drive. I need to be able to run Parallels. The current MBP 13" offering is perfect for me except for the processor. Again, it shouldn't be too much to ask for a $1200 device to have something more powerful than C2D.

The 13" MBP isn't getting Sandy Bridge if Sandy Bridge's IGP doesn't support OpenCL, so either save the extra and get a 15" MBP or suck it up and get a Core 2 Duo based Mac.

fpnc

Jan 27, 2011, 03:51 AM

People still use optical drives and Mac OS X is still doesn't have a TRIM equivalent for forestalling flash memory degradation...
IMO, the OS-dependent TRIM command is a stopgap and won't be around very much longer (it's probably going to end up as a minor footnote to the wider adaption of flash-memory storage). Thus, Apple will probably choose never to implement it.
...And modern SSDs are much better with block managing and wear levels...
1+

ScaryMerry

Jan 27, 2011, 03:55 AM

You open by saying that you need more computer than the white MacBook, but can't afford the 15" Pro, citing the 13" Pro as the target because it is a more powerful computer, which is false as both are essentially the same computer sans the SD card slot, the Aluminum enclosure, the FireWire 800 port, and the IR sensor. Same CPU, same chipset, virtually same logic board, for crying out loud. That is unless you're getting the 2.66 GHz model, but why would you if you're on a budget?

Let me rephrase myself- I need more than 2GB of RAM, and given the price jump if you add more RAM to the MB, I might as well get the MBP. Also, I need an SD reader. However, I think it's ludicrous to pay $1200 for a device running a C2D processor and I can't afford the 15" MBP. Also, I hate the 15" size. As I stated previously, I just want a 13" MBP running a processor that isn't old tech.

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 04:07 AM

People still ride horses too...

Are you suggesting we remove horses in the same fashion, because I think that's no more likely to happen than the ODD being removed in the next year.

Let me rephrase myself- I need more than 2GB of RAM, and given the price jump if you add more RAM to the MB, I might as well get the MBP. Also, I need an SD reader. However, I think it's ludicrous to pay $1200 for a device running a C2D processor and I can't afford the 15" MBP. Also, I hate the 15" size. As I stated previously, I just want a 13" MBP running a processor that isn't old tech.

Given your need of an SD card reader and the price difference, your choice of a bottom of the line 13" Pro makes sense. However, given Apple's careface about OpenCL, and Sandy Bridge's lack of support for it, you probably won't see Sandy Bridge in the next 13" Pro if there's even going to be another 13" Pro at all. The other Core 2 Duo based machines are likely to maintain the Core 2 Duo + GeForce 320M combination for another release cycle, until either Ivy Bridge or a switch to AMD's Llano, though I'd bank on the former more than the latter.

Leshita

Jan 27, 2011, 04:11 AM

Ping Guo

Jan 27, 2011, 04:18 AM

Apple EOL's the 13" MBP and white MB, while the 11 and 13-inch MBAs, along with redesigned 15" and 17" MBPs, all become "Macbooks". Apple's notebook lineup is streamlined into just 4 models. Simple. The new 15" and 17" Macbooks will borrow heavily from the design of the new Airs.

We know Apple would rather offer a simple, robust lineup than try to cater to every market. And the 11" MBA is already priced identically to the soon-to-be discontinued whitebook - therefore already positioned to take its place as the entry-level laptop.

Well even if it doesn't happen this time around, the day is coming. What's the point of the whitebook and 13" MBP now anyway? The new Airs outclass them in pretty much every way.

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 04:18 AM

I am really hoping for a refresh before February 20th (and available for order on the Apple Website) because I signed up for the Student ADC discount last February and I never used it to make any purchase yet (none of the refreshes felt meaty enough :p). I hope I can pick this up before my discount expires.

I am just hoping for the new Intel processors and maybe a slightly better graphics chip. Anything else will be gravy.

They don't get meatier than Sandy Bridge. Though I wouldn't hold my breath on the 13" Pro, if I were you.

Is that discount more, the same, or less than the standard academic discount?

Nice information, Your information is very good.

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+1

Apple EOL's the 13" MBP and white MB, while the 11 and 13-inch MBA's, along with redesigned 15" and 17" MBPs, all become "Macbooks". Apple's notebook lineup is streamlined into just 4 models. Simple. The new 15" and 17" Macbooks will borrow heavily from the design of the new Airs.

We know Apple would rather offer a simple, robust lineup than try to cater to every market. And the 11" MBA is already priced identically to the soon-to-be discontinued whitebook - therefore already positioned to take its place as the entry-level laptop.

Well even if it doesn't happen this time around, the day is coming. What's the point of the whitebook and 13" MBP now anyway? The new Airs totally outclass them in pretty much every way.

The 13" White MacBook is a way better deal for $1000 than the 11" MacBook Air is. The Airs don't outclass either of the other two 13" machines at all. The 13" Air is faster by a hair than the lower-end 13" MBP and White MB, I'll grant you that. But I'm paying more money, for less of a feature-set? Get real.

Tears Apart

Jan 27, 2011, 04:20 AM

Okay - really gotta pull the trigger soon and say bye to my early 2006 1.83Ghz CD.

devilcm3

Jan 27, 2011, 04:21 AM

those who suggested that apple should ditch the HDD , switch to blade SSD's because they are 'quite inexpensive' , while retaining the ODD .
how about sharing some of your fortunes to cover our costs of getting the lowest capacity available? say .. 250GB?

'inexpensive' is well , kind of subjective isn't it

hats of everyone , the one who misses in their prediction ( ODD / no ODD ) shall eat theirs

anyways , i'd propose a vote to see what are the prospective customers' expectations on the next refresh

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 04:27 AM

Okay - really gotta pull the trigger soon and say bye to my early 2006 1.83Ghz CD.

That's what I'm about to do with my iMac. Mac mini Server (used as a normal Mac mini) here I come! Sad though, for sure. Good thing I'm adopting hoarder-like tendencies and am only putting 'er in storage.

those who suggested that apple should ditch the HDD , switch to blade SSD's because they are 'quite inexpensive' , while retaining the ODD .
how about sharing some of your fortunes to cover our costs of getting the lowest capacity available? say .. 250GB?

'inexpensive' is well , kind of subjective isn't it

hats of everyone , the one who misses in their prediction ( ODD / no ODD ) shall eat theirs

More like 128GB, and for the people who only buy the 13" MacBook Pro because it's shiny, they (a) can clearly afford to spend $200 on looks, and (b) won't mind the smaller capacity, because all they do is check their e-mail/facebook on it anyway. Alternatively, it's not like you can't just buy a refurbished white MacBook of current and slap in a traditional 256GB SSD drive for barely over $1050. Breaking the bank in terms of SSD-based Mac options? I think not.

Ping Guo

Jan 27, 2011, 04:31 AM

The 13" White MacBook is a way better deal for $1000 than the 11" MacBook Air is. The Airs don't outclass either of the other two 13" machines at all. The 13" Air is faster by a hair than the lower-end 13" MBP and White MB, I'll grant you that. But I'm paying more money, for less of a feature-set? Get real.

Yep, they really do. Have you used either of the new Airs? They're faster at everyday tasks than either the whitebook or 13" MBP (sans SSD). The speed of the SSD vs HDD is very noticeable.

And the primary feature of a laptop is portability, so you're actually getting more "features" the lighter and smaller the laptop is. If you mean power-hungry processors, tons of ports, clunky drives and other miscellaneous stuff that comes loaded onto Windows laptops, when has Apple ever gone this route? They don't cater to these types of users, don't care to, and they haven't for quite some time.

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 04:37 AM

Yep, they really do. Have you used either of the new Airs? They're faster at everyday tasks than either the whitebook or 13" MBP (sans SSD). The speed of the SSD vs HDD is very noticeable.

I have, actually, and I've only been impressed by the screen resolutions and the boot times. The (Late 2010) 11" Air is slower than any (Mid 2010) 13" Pro I've ever used. The 13" Air is faster, and then when I realize that I can't use Target Disk Mode or edit video footage from my DV camera, it just becomes a novelty item. As a secondary Mac, they are fantastic. As a primary one, I'll pass thanks; it's far too lacking.

And the primary feature of a laptop is portability, so you're actually getting more "features" the lighter and smaller the laptop is. If you mean power-hungry processors, tons of ports, clunky drives and other miscellaneous stuff that comes loaded onto Windows laptops, when has Apple ever gone this route? They don't cater to these types of users, don't care to, and they haven't for quite some time.

Apple takes that route all the time with laptops that are not the MacBook Air. They cater to those of us who actually do things with our computer other than marvel at how anorexic they are.

PM Smith

Jan 27, 2011, 04:45 AM

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 04:48 AM

I've been deliberating between the white MacBook and the 13in MacBook Air for a couple of weeks now. Ideally I'd like the (cheaper) MacBook, but the higher resolution screen on the MBA appeals to to me as I frequently have to work with maps and photographs. A 1440 x 900 MB would suit me down to the ground. Is it really likely that such a screen could find its way into the next MB?

I wouldn't hold my breath, but you never know. It very well might. If the 13" MacBook Pro survives this next refresh and gets it, it's a pretty decent chance that whitey will as well. Then again, I suppose if the 13" Pro doesn't survive this next refresh, it may STILL be possible that whitey'll get it anyway.

DeViAnThans3

Jan 27, 2011, 05:01 AM

orfeas0

Jan 27, 2011, 05:04 AM

I'm going to predict:

- MacBook white discontinued
- MacBook Air becomes the standard MacBook

dear god i hope not! 1,4ghz cpu for 1000$ come on...the 1 that needs to be canceled is the "pro" 13".
there should be a white macbook 13" (like the 2008 one, not this one, its like an egg), the mba 11+13 and then the pros aluminium. or maybe an air from plastic :O

314631

Jan 27, 2011, 05:07 AM

I highly doubt this. The Air is very much a niche product, while the MacBook is far more appealing to the general consumer.

I disagree. I think the MacBook Air is the mainstream product now that meets the needs of the vast majority of customers. It has a fast SSD, it's very light, has a processor more than capable of serving the needs of everyday users (email, web surfing, basic photo editing/sharing) and is affordable. I think the MacBook should disappear in the refresh. I don't really see the point of the 13" MBP either unless they really bump the specs in the refresh.

I have a 17" MBP basically gathering dust now. I use the 27" iMac for all my every day work. And when I'm on the road, it's the MBA that goes in my bag. There's no way I want to cart the 17" MBP around with me on trips anymore. I find the Air is more than sufficient for my needs.

Obviously there are others who absolutely need the horsepower of the high-end 15"/17" MBPs. But you are in the minority. As Alex Lindsay keeps saying on MacBreak Weekly, he's increasingly concerned Apple is going to toss you people aside somewhere down the road.

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 05:17 AM

Happy to finally read up some news on a possible refresh on the MBP front. It might not mean something, but at least it lives up my hopes :)

Looking forward to any related news! (and secretly hoping the 13" MBP doesn't get ditched) ;)

It's my favorite of the current shipping Macs, but I'm pretty convinced that it's a gonner.

dear god i hope not! 1,4ghz cpu for 1000$ come on...the 1 that needs to be canceled is the "pro" 13".
there should be a white macbook 13" (like the 2008 one, not this one, its like an egg), the mba 11+13 and then the pros aluminium. or maybe an air from plastic :O

+1 though don't return to the pre-unibody design as that had so many flaws to it, it's not even funny. But certainly restore its featureset and give it, at least a similar design that's Unibody.

I disagree. I think the MacBook Air is the mainstream product now that meets the needs of the vast majority of customers.

If by "vast majority of customers" you mean "MacBook Air customers" then sure, I'll agree. Otherwise, you're full of it.

It has a fast SSD, it's very light, has a processor more than capable of serving the needs of everyday users (email, web surfing, basic photo editing/sharing) and is affordable.

The 13" Air isn't anywhere near as affordable as the white MacBook, and the 11" Air is a joke when you put it side by side with any of the larger screened computers.

I think the MacBook should disappear in the refresh.

Tell that to (a) The entire education industry and (b) people who want a full featured Mac without breaking $1000 (before tax). I'm sure they'll happily disagree with you.

I don't really see the point of the 13" MBP either unless they really bump the specs in the refresh.

While I don't want to (because it is my favorite Mac model in the line-up today), I'll definitely agree with you there.

I have a 17" MBP basically gathering dust now. I use the 27" iMac for all my every day work. And when I'm on the road, it's the MBA that goes in my bag. There's no way I want to cart the 17" MBP around with me on trips anymore.

No kidding, who the hell buys a 17" MacBook Pro expecting it to be all that portable?

I find the Air is more than sufficient for my needs.

Obviously there are others who absolutely need the horsepower of the high-end 15"/17" MBPs. But you are in the minority. As Alex Lindsay keeps saying on MacBreak Weekly, he's increasingly concerned Apple is going to toss you people aside somewhere down the road.

Then apparently, Alex Lindsay is just as uninformed as you are. More people buy MacBook Pros than do MacBook Airs, and that's not likely to change anytime soon.

ericsflowers

Jan 27, 2011, 05:34 AM

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 05:45 AM

I think I am about to chime in at about the right time. I think you are onto something saying that no one buys a 17" MBP thinking portability. With it being the one out of stock, I think it may be transforming into a 17" iMac. Some of the rumors I have read have also talked about a more "mainstream pricepoint" for iMac.

So my theory goes;

MBA 11" base price $999
MBP 13" base price $999
17" iMac base price $999

No more 13" plastic model, replace by the aluminum 13" pro to avoid confusion. With my theory, it simplifies the purchase for the consumer, asking the question, what do you want to do with your mac? Of course I am also assuming MBP gets a processor upgrade.

If you want a light ultra portable, choose from the air line.
If you want a laptop with faster processors, and optical drives, choose the MBP line.
If you want a desktop, choose the iMac line...

Anyone else think I might be on to something?

They have an iMac at the $1200 price point, and below that they have the Mac mini. The plastic model white MacBook is the MOST DURABLE laptop Apple makes, making it far more of a target for the education market. It's the 13" Pro that'll be taken out to avoid confusion, though really, nothing is getting removed to avoid confusion. The 13" Pro is getting axed because it is too similar in performance to the other two 13" Macs, and because unlike the other two 13" Macs, it being a "MacBook Pro", it is expected to gain BOTH a GPU AND a CPU boost that it can't realistically get in this next refresh.

ScaryMerry

Jan 27, 2011, 05:48 AM

CaptainCannabis

Jan 27, 2011, 05:49 AM

Update on the next update, after Lion is released.
That is my recommendation.

Lion release in ~Nov 2011.
Next line up update after the one happening this Feb will be ~Feb2012.

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 05:51 AM

+1

Also, ditching the plastic MB would make all of the products fit into that aluminum/black theme that Apple's been really into lately.

...And would piss the crap out of the Education sector, THEIR LARGEST CONCENTRATED CUSTOMER BASE! Let alone the fact that it is THE CHEAPEST FULL FEATURED PORTABLE MAC ON THE MARKET! Man, does no one here take either fact into consideration? It's not like the white MacBook isn't being sold at all here!

Update on the next update, after Lion is released.
That is my recommendation.

Lion release in ~Nov 2011.
Next line up update after the one happening this Feb will be ~Feb2012.

Lion will be out before November 2011. Likely not by Summer, but likely not that late either. This round will have a newer install disc set and a mid-cycle change to what comes pre-loaded, just buy this next refresh with Lion pre-installed.

ScaryMerry

Jan 27, 2011, 06:00 AM

...And would piss the crap out of the Education sector, THEIR LARGEST CONCENTRATED CUSTOMER BASE! Let alone the fact that it is THE CHEAPEST FULL FEATURED PORTABLE MAC ON THE MARKET! Man, does no one here take either fact into consideration? It's not like the white MacBook isn't being sold at all here!

I'm in the education sector and more people use/need the 13" MBP instead, primarily because of the SD card slot. Also, that is the best-selling Mac by far to students- if you step onto a college campus, you occasionally see a plastic MB, but you see 13" MBPs everywhere. As for public schools, budgets are so tight right now that purchasing any kind of Mac is laughable. Most districts have switched to PCs. The county that I'm student-teaching in is standardized on Toshiba and my mom's county is standardized on Dell.

Shivetya

Jan 27, 2011, 06:01 AM

I'm going to predict:

- MacBook white discontinued
- MacBook Air becomes the standard MacBook

If they can get the MBA 13 to 999 I would agree. Frankly there is little reason for the MBP 13 to exist anymore.

fpnc

Jan 27, 2011, 06:13 AM

You seem to forget that (a) Internet bandwidth isn't fast enough to download or install some programs in a timely manner, let alone within the same twelve hour span of time, (b) that the Mac App Store doesn't have big-name programs like, Microsoft Office, any of the Adobe apps, or any of the Apple Pro apps save for Remote Desktop and Aperture (gee, you think that might be because all of their other apps are just too big to not be distributed on DVDs? Or is that too obvious of a conclusion.), and (c) there are still many of us who still rely on the use of an internal ODD...
A bit irrelevant since most large installs are for pro-oriented software that cost half as much as the entry-level MacBook itself. That being, if you are a "pro" and use pro-level software then you'll have other ways to install software like from an external optical drive or from a shared distribution point at work or at the home office (like via a LAN or a remotely mounted optical drive). You say you don't want to be bothered by carrying around an external drive? I say, how many times have you had to install a mega-megabyte program from a CD/DVD while riding the train/subway, etc. to or from some destination (or under any situation while being completely mobile)?

The only widespread problem I can see for large installs would be for games, but then again serious gamers aren't going to balk at getting an external optical drive. However, if they could forgo the optical drive and get another hour of gaming while running on a larger battery then I think they'd make that compromise.

There could also be a pretty big, but admittedly self-serving incentive for Apple to remove optical drives from their computers, since that would nearly guarantee a monster success for the Mac App Store. The more quickly and completely software moves to online distribution the faster Apple will make their 30% cut from potentially all or nearly all software sales. I'm not trying to be conspiratorial (i.e. bad and greedy Apple), but that could represent a win, win, win for Apple, their customers, and even for many software developers (as for the latter, just look at what happened to Pixelmator).

Lastly, if you think large installs over the internet are going to be problem then why are so many in the industry rushing to streaming video delivery rather than relying on DVDs/Blu-rays? Apple has been pretty adamant about that and even NetFlix is saying that internet-based content delivery is the future (and they are currently the largest distributor of DVDs in the U.S.). It's practically the same argument, the cost savings and convenience of internet-based delivery are just too great to continue with physical discs and packaging.
...Your argument loses just about all of its weight here. As do most arguments that are prefaced with "if the 13" MacBook Pro lost its optical drive...".
I could say the same thing about your arguments as to why Apple needs to keep building notebook computers with internal optical drives. You seem to be pretty close to making an out of hand dismissal of my point of view.
...The 13" MBP isn't getting Sandy Bridge if Sandy Bridge's IGP doesn't support OpenCL, so either save the extra and get a 15" MBP or suck it up and get a Core 2 Duo based Mac.
Okay, so you dismiss my argument that the 13" MacBook Pro could gain a more powerful GPU by dropping the optical drive and then you turn around in the very next paragraph and tell someone else that they should just "suck it up" and get a Core 2 Duo because any re-design of the 13" MacBook Pro would have to be limited to the Sandy Bridge's IGP. You seem to be trying to find every excuse possible to keep the MacBooks in their current configurations, hardware that sounds awfully like any generic PC (or worse) that you'd find at a discount electronic store. I believe that you mentioned earlier that you work with customers to determine what they should buy, you don't happen to work at Best Buy? Okay, so that's a pretty low blow and an unfair stereotype, I apologize. :)

In any case, it's my opinion that the optical drive is going away fairly soon. If it doesn't happen this year on the redesigned MacBook Pros then it will happen in 2012. The question then becomes, how forward looking is Apple going to be and how much risk are they willing to take to make a quick and clean break with the past and move on to what I (or they) believe is a better or more balanced solution for the majority of their customers? I think the MacBook Airs (which Apple has already said represent the future of MacBooks) and the recently opened Mac App Store indicate that this change may be closer than many might think. Would I be devastated if the newly redesigned MacBook Pros keep their optical drives? No, not in any way, and I'd admit that internal optical drives might stay for another year. However, if Apple can drop the optical drive from the 13" MacBook Pro and use that space for the additional features that I've previously proposed then I'd be jumping for joy and literally be rushing out to buy a new MacBook Pro.

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 06:16 AM

I'm in the education sector and more people use/need the 13" MBP instead, primarily because of the SD card slot.

Unless this is a new student teaching practice that I'm unfamiliar with, this seems like another case of "I need this feature, therefore everyone needs this feature". Out of the dozens of people I've talked to about the differences between the 13" MacBook Pro and the white MacBook, you're the only one who seems to care about the SD card slot. I mean, really, it should be standard on all Macs (MacBook and Mac Pro included), but you're the only one I've run into that seems to depend on that feature.

Also, that is the best-selling Mac by far to students- if you step onto a college campus, you occasionally see a plastic MB, but you see 13" MBPs everywhere.

College is a luxury, a 13" MacBook Pro over a white MacBook is a luxury. It's not far-fetched to assume that if one can afford the former, they can also afford the latter, especially when most people are only buying the 13" Pro because it is prettier and not because they are even aware of the very few technical differences between the two. I recently graduated from a four-year university. Before the 13" Pro existed, people coveted the Aluminum MacBook. Before that, the MacBook was the best selling model that everyone was after. If you kill the 13" Pro, something else will take the place of "most sold Apple laptop", I guarantee it.

As for public schools, budgets are so tight right now that purchasing any kind of Mac is laughable.

You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? I certainly would. I've seen my university squander thousands on the then-new 24" iMacs just because the reference librarians wanted more screen real-estate. Nevermind that a Mac mini with an external monitor would've been far more affordable and have served just as well. Also, some schools have anywhere from half to their entire IT infrastructure based on OS X. In theory, all public institutions should switch to PCs because they're cheaper, but in practice that's not what's happening, hence the California Budget Crisis with specific regards to the Education Budget. Trust me, I saw that all happen first hand. It made me want to kill a small animal and I love small animals!

Most districts have switched to PCs. The county that I'm student-teaching in is standardized on Toshiba and my mom's county is standardized on Dell.

Again, that's not true of all districts in all states, nor of all types of institutions. A lot of them still use Macs. At my workplace we had eight or so MacBooks come in for repair from a local school. It's still pretty mixed.

If they can get the MBA 13 to 999 I would agree. Frankly there is little reason for the MBP 13 to exist anymore.

+1

antster94

Jan 27, 2011, 06:25 AM

I can't see the 13" MBP getting axed. It's one of the best selling (if not the best selling) macs in the lineup. What's the solution if you're a guy who wants a relatively powerful computer that you can put a disc into while still keeping it portable and without the girly white colour? In my school so many people have the 13" MBP, easily the most popular laptop around here.

ScaryMerry

Jan 27, 2011, 06:28 AM

Unless this is a new student teaching practice that I'm unfamiliar with, this seems like another case of "I need this feature, therefore everyone needs this feature". Out of the dozens of people I've talked to about the differences between the 13" MacBook Pro and the white MacBook, you're the only one who seems to care about the SD card slot. I mean, really, it should be standard on all Macs (MacBook and Mac Pro included), but you're the only one I've run into that seems to depend on that feature.

College is a luxury, a 13" MacBook Pro over a white MacBook is a luxury. It's not far-fetched to assume that if one can afford the former, they can also afford the latter, especially when most people are only buying the 13" Pro because it is prettier and not because they are even aware of the very few technical differences between the two. I recently graduated from a four-year university. Before the 13" Pro existed, people coveted the Aluminum MacBook. Before that, the MacBook was the best selling model that everyone was after. If you kill the 13" Pro, something else will take the place of "most sold Apple laptop", I guarantee it.

You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? I certainly would. I've seen my university squander thousands on the then-new 24" iMacs just because the reference librarians wanted more screen real-estate. Nevermind that a Mac mini with an external monitor would've been far more affordable and have served just as well. Also, some schools have anywhere from half to their entire IT infrastructure based on OS X. In theory, all public institutions should switch to PCs because they're cheaper, but in practice that's not what's happening, hence the California Budget Crisis with specific regards to the Education Budget. Trust me, I saw that all happen first hand. It made me want to kill a small animal and I love small animals!

Again, that's not true of all districts in all states, nor of all types of institutions. A lot of them still use Macs. At my workplace we had eight or so MacBooks come in for repair from a local school. It's still pretty mixed.

+1

I'm referring to high, middle, and elementary schools, not universities. They're going to drop pricy Macs over cutting teachers (which they're having to do anyway). As for the SD slot, college students take a *******-ton of pictures and can't be bothered with an external reader. Almost everyone I asked about why they chose the Pro over the MB included the SD reader in their explanation (portability and HD size being other factors). Yes, a few did choose it over the other because it's shinier, etc., but that doesn't change the fact that it's the best selling Mac to college students.

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 06:47 AM

I'm referring to high, middle, and elementary schools, not universities. They're going to drop pricy Macs over cutting teachers (which they're having to do anyway).

You want to take a bet on that? Even in K-12, I know tons of teachers that are about to lose their jobs while their department gets the latest iMacs. It's terrible.

As for the SD slot, college students take a *******-ton of pictures and can't be bothered with an external reader. Almost everyone I asked about why they chose the Pro over the MB included the SD reader in their explanation (portability and HD size being other factors).

What about the camera they took the pictures on? It's not like transfering those pictures from the camera directly to the computer is any more inconvenient than removing the small SD card, sticking it in the computer and then sticking it back in the camera when everything was done. I guess it's less portable, but having to keep an SD card safe seems like a slightly greater hassle.

Yes, a few did choose it over the other because it's shinier, etc., but that doesn't change the fact that it's the best selling Mac to college students.

Sure it does! Kill that machine and then the white MacBook takes back that crown because at that point it'll be the more affordable machine.

Mal67

Jan 27, 2011, 06:55 AM

Someone above mentioned a 17"imac and the more i think about it the more I like the sound of it :-)

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 06:59 AM

A bit irrelevant since most large installs are for pro-oriented software that cost half as much as the entry-level MacBook itself. That being, if you are a "pro" and use pro-level software then you'll have other ways to install software like from an external optical drive or from a shared distribution point at work or at the home office (like via a LAN or a remotely mounted optical drive). You say you don't want to be bothered by carrying around an external drive? I say, how many times have you had to install a mega-megabyte program from a CD/DVD while riding the train/subway, etc. to or from some destination (or under any situation while being completely mobile)?

The only widespread problem I can see for large installs would be for games, but then again serious gamers aren't going to balk at getting an external optical drive. However, if they could forgo the optical drive and get another hour of gaming while running on a larger battery then I think they'd make that compromise.

There could also be a pretty big, but admittedly self-serving incentive for Apple to remove optical drives from their computers, since that would nearly guarantee a monster success for the Mac App Store. The more quickly and completely software moves to online distribution the faster Apple will make their 30% cut from potentially all or nearly all software sales. I'm not trying to be conspiratorial (i.e. bad and greedy Apple), but that could represent a win, win, win for Apple, their customers, and even for many software developers (as for the latter, just look at what happened to Pixelmator).

Lastly, if you think large installs over the internet are going to be problem then why are so many in the industry rushing to streaming video delivery rather than relying on DVDs/Blu-rays? Apple has been pretty adamant about that and even NetFlix is saying that internet-based content delivery is the future (and they are currently the largest distributor of DVDs in the U.S.). It's practically the same argument, the cost savings and convenience of internet-based delivery are just too great to continue with physical discs and packaging.

I could say the same thing about your arguments as to why Apple needs to keep building notebook computers with internal optical drives. You seem to be pretty close to making an out of hand dismissal of my point of view.

Okay, so you dismiss my argument that the 13" MacBook Pro could gain a more powerful GPU by dropping the optical drive and then you turn around in the very next paragraph and tell someone else that they should just "suck it up" and get a Core 2 Duo because any re-design of the 13" MacBook Pro would have to be limited to the Sandy Bridge's IGP. You seem to be trying to find every excuse possible to keep the MacBooks in their current configurations, hardware that sounds awfully like any generic PC (or worse) that you'd find at a discount electronic store. I believe that you mentioned earlier that you work with customers to determine what they should buy, you don't happen to work at Best Buy? Okay, so that's a pretty low blow and an unfair stereotype, I apologize. :)

In any case, it's my opinion that the optical drive is going away fairly soon. If it doesn't happen this year on the redesigned MacBook Pros then it will happen in 2012. The question then becomes, how forward looking is Apple going to be and how much risk are they willing to take to make a quick and clean break with the past and move on to what I (or they) believe is a better or more balanced solution for the majority of their customers? I think the MacBook Airs (which Apple has already said represent the future of MacBooks) and the recently opened Mac App Store indicate that this change may be closer than many might think. Would I be devastated if the newly redesigned MacBook Pros keep their optical drives? No, not in any way, and I'd admit that internal optical drives might stay for another year. However, if Apple can drop the optical drive from the 13" MacBook Pro and use that space for the additional features that I've previously proposed then I'd be jumping for joy and literally be rushing out to buy a new MacBook Pro.

(1) Barring any thing that involves the external SuperDrive as that is truly inconvenient, how do I take my MacBook Pro to my girlfriend's house and watch one of her movies on my computer without an optical drive? How do I do that with one of the movies she owns digitally? If my computer fails while I'm at her house, how to I reinstall all of my software (which I carry in my laptop bag), especially if the Internet at her house is flakey?

(2) The Mac App Store is still way young; you don't see any Adobe or Microsoft apps there. You don't see Final Cut Studio, Logic Studio, or the "Express" equivalents there (presumably because they are too huge). You'll never see trials, betas, or demos there. It is an incomplete offering. Jobs himself said that it would never be "The only place to discover apps, just the best."

(3) Streaming/VoD Rentals will replace physical disc rentals. Hell, they already have. The same isn't true of purchases. Quite the opposite, actually. This is why DVDs are still being sold, but rental places are going out of business. It makes sense for rental media to come over the Internet. It doesn't make sense to purchase media that way unless it's music.

(4) The 13" MacBook Pro could get a discrete GPU if Apple took out either the ODD or the HDD, and I don't think they'll do either as doing so will make the computer cost even more money, making it not fit in the line anymore. It's unrealistic, which is why I dismiss your arguments. It's a nice fairy tale, but I wouldn't bank on it and neither should you.

(5) 10 hours (7, realistically, and 3-4 while gaming) of battery life is plenty. I don't know anyone who needs to be without their MagSafe adapter any longer than that. So what's the point of extra battery life then?

Adidas Addict

Jan 27, 2011, 07:08 AM

All these people saying the 13MBP is going to be axed are on drugs! Why would a company stop making their best selling computer?

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 07:09 AM

All these people saying the 13MBP is going to be axed are on drugs! Why would a company stop making their best selling computer?

Because they can't get it to perform satisfactorily and half of their customer base knows it.

It wouldn't be the first time Apple has axed their best selling product when it was their best selling product.

314631

Jan 27, 2011, 07:18 AM

If by "vast majority of customers" you mean "MacBook Air customers" then sure, I'll agree. Otherwise, you're full of it.

The 13" Air isn't anywhere near as affordable as the white MacBook, and the 11" Air is a joke when you put it side by side with any of the larger screened computers.

The 11" Air maybe a joke in your opinion. But many tech experts love it, even hardcore Windows users love the hardware. :)

Tell that to (a) The entire education industry and (b) people who want a full featured Mac without breaking $1000 (before tax). I'm sure they'll happily disagree with you.

The 11" MacBook Air is perfect on price (you ignore it because you think it's a joke, but it's just your opinion). Many in education are recommending the 11" MBA to their students. I heard one teacher on a podcast last week saying their two recommended purchases are the MacBook Air and the iPod Touch or iPhone because it has the camera.

No kidding, who the hell buys a 17" MacBook Pro expecting it to be all that portable?

People were buying them because they thought they needed a powerful machine that could go on the road with them when necessary. But it turns out all that CPU power is unnecessary for many of us. The MacBook Air is more than adequate when coupled with SSD and 4gb RAM. I have seen many, many comments from owners of 15"/17" MacBook Pros saying they won't buy another one because the MacBook Air does what they need.

Then apparently, Alex Lindsay is just as uninformed as you are. More people buy MacBook Pros than do MacBook Airs, and that's not likely to change anytime soon.

We'll see. MacBook Airs have been selling like hot cakes by all accounts since the 2010 models were introduced. Of course as long as there is a viable business around selling MacBook Pros then Apple will continue the product line. The question is how much longer will customers want bulky, expensive 15" / 17" laptops once they have experienced the portability of products like the MacBook Air? I'm not expecting the MBP to go away anytime soon. But it will become an increasingly niche product that fewer and fewer customers buy when faced with alternatives like the MBA and iPad.

SaaGua

Jan 27, 2011, 07:19 AM

w00t, new stuff! Perhaps we'll see an iChip in the 13" model. While I'm dreaming, I'll take a high-res matte screen for the 13" and a pony.

+1

I had that exact same dream... ;)

henryharker

Jan 27, 2011, 07:20 AM

http://www.amazon.co.uk/MacBook-15inch-GeForce-Graphics-battery/dp/B003H05K0A/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1296133939&sr=8-2

And they had stock this morning! Imminent new models arriving do we think???

Oh dear, this whole thread reminds me of getting obsessed with the new Powerbook arrival 6 or 7 years ago...

Adidas Addict

Jan 27, 2011, 07:20 AM

Because they can't get it to perform satisfactorily and half of their customer base knows it.

It wouldn't be the first time Apple has axed their best selling product when it was their best selling product.

Half their customer base? Are you sure you don't mean a handful of people on this website?

DeViAnThans3

Jan 27, 2011, 07:39 AM

I just red an interesting point regarding this news of tightening supplies. It seems unlogical that the "cheaper" resellers (Amazon, BestBuy etc)would run short on supplies, while usually it's Apple's online store or Premium Resellers who are running out first.

I've no idea how valid this point may be, but didn't found it here yet, and found it intersting enough to share.
If this is true, it makes it less probable that a refresh is imminent within the next 2-6 weeks. Either way, my hopes are still up ;)

macaroo2

Jan 27, 2011, 07:42 AM

The 11" MacBook Air is perfect on price (you ignore it because you think it's a joke, but it's just your opinion). Many in education are recommending the 11" MBA to their students. I heard one teacher on a podcast last week saying their two recommended purchases are the MacBook Air and the iPod Touch or iPhone because it has the camera.

I agree. I see education handing out more Airs than MB White in the future once they catch on to the pros of an Air. Hence why I believe MBWhite will last only one more refresh before the axe. [It's not like students need OD to install stuff, are they even allowed to?]

MacBook Airs have been selling like hot cakes by all accounts since the 2010 models were introduced. Of course as long as there is a viable business around selling MacBook Pros then Apple will continue the product line. The question is how much longer will customers want bulky, expensive 15" / 17" laptops once they have experienced the portability of products like the MacBook Air? I'm not expecting the MBP to go away anytime soon. But it will become an increasingly niche product that fewer and fewer customers buy when faced with alternatives like the MBA and iPad.

15/17" MBPs will remain. They might start to share specs with the Air in 2012 but not in this upcoming refresh.

MBX

Jan 27, 2011, 07:48 AM

MBP 17' Sandy Bridge i5 Quad-core 3.3GHZ HERE YOU COMETH!

WOOOHOOOO!

0815

Jan 27, 2011, 07:51 AM

Very excited to see an Apple-specific post as opposed to AT&T and/or Verizon :D

Just wait ... it might come with AT&T 3G card and/or Verizon CDMA :eek:

Or what about the 'white' models?

macaroo2

Jan 27, 2011, 07:54 AM

I'm replacing my 2007 MB White pre unibody. Good thing I checked here and found out a refresh is forthcoming.

Like I said in previous posts 13" doesn't even compute on my mind for MBPs If I was gonna get a 13" I would go for another MB White. 17" is too bulky though I like the screen real estate. 15" is just right IMO. Would love it if this refresh brought a SSD+HDD BTO option. I can live w/o the OD.

Seriously, remove the OD and gimme options for HDD2, another battery, etc.

ExiledMafia

Jan 27, 2011, 07:56 AM

Low-end 13" MacBook Pro
2.5GHz Core i5-2520M
4GB DDR3-1333
128GB SSD
Intel HD Graphics+ 512GB GDDR5 GT525M
13" 1440x900 screen
DVD Superdrive
$1299

Dream 13" mbp right now.....IF this happens I may not be able to wait for the free ipod touch program.

greytmom

Jan 27, 2011, 08:13 AM

I noticed earlier in the thread that people were talking about the "Waiting for Arrandale" thread and how their hearts were broken every Tuesday. Was wondering, why Tuesdays? Do these things have a habit of getting released on Tuesdays, like books and DVDs? I don't think I've ever noticed that before.

zedsdead

Jan 27, 2011, 08:17 AM

fpnc

Jan 27, 2011, 08:21 AM

(1) Barring any thing that involves the external SuperDrive as that is truly inconvenient, how do I take my MacBook Pro to my girlfriend's house and watch one of her movies on my computer without an optical drive? How do I do that with one of the movies she owns digitally? If my computer fails while I'm at her house, how to I reinstall all of my software (which I carry in my laptop bag), especially if the Internet at her house is flakey?...
Just stream something from Netflix, Amazon, or Apple's own iTunes Store, DVDs aren't really that useful anymore. In any case, why would your girlfriend have a DVD and no means to watch it at her home? As for the rest, pretty simple, how about a USB thumb drive or an SD card? Much smaller, more rugged, naturally R/W, potentially much faster for access and way faster than CD/DVD +/-RW, and holds significantly more than a CD or DVD, and just like the thumb drive that Apple now ships for system restores on the MacBook Airs.
...(2) The Mac App Store is still way young; you don't see any Adobe or Microsoft apps there. You don't see Final Cut Studio, Logic Studio, or the "Express" equivalents there (presumably because they are too huge). You'll never see trials, betas, or demos there. It is an incomplete offering. Jobs himself said that it would never be "The only place to discover apps, just the best."...
As I said, if you need an optical drive just get one, no real reason to penalize everyone with the inclusion of a large and mostly unused optical drive just because you want to install Office or Final Cut (something you typically do once or twice during the entire lifetime of your computer). Besides that, as I mentioned earlier, if Apple begins to remove optical drives from the MacBook Pros the software companies are going to be pretty much forced to go to online distribution. Either that, or if worse comes to worst, they will just ship on flash-memory-based media (again, like Apple does for the system restores on the MacBook Airs).
(3) Streaming/VoD Rentals will replace physical disc rentals. Hell, they already have. The same isn't true of purchases. Quite the opposite, actually. This is why DVDs are still being sold, but rental places are going out of business. It makes sense for rental media to come over the Internet. It doesn't make sense to purchase media that way unless it's music.
Purchase or rental? I don't see that those terms make a difference when it comes to software. Technically, you really don't purchase software or movies, you may "own" the physical media but you merely have a limited license for the content. In any case, your argument doesn't negate the convenience and cost savings that you get with internet-based delivery. Furthermore, with software you eventually end up transferring the content to your computer's hard drive which generally isn't the case for movies on DVD and Blu-ray. Let's face it if you HAD to transfer a movie from a DVD before you could use it wouldn't you consider the DVD a mere transfer medium, one that might be considered a kind of nuisance to store and maintain -- other than for backup? So, if the content (movie or software) was always available online, safe and secure wouldn't that be a good alternative? And why do you exclude the example of downloadable music versus audio CDs -- was it because it didn't support your argument?
(4) The 13" MacBook Pro could get a discrete GPU if Apple took out either the ODD or the HDD, and I don't think they'll do either as doing so will make the computer cost even more money, making it not fit in the line anymore. It's unrealistic, which is why I dismiss your arguments. It's a nice fairy tale, but I wouldn't bank on it and neither should you.
If you strip out the optical drive and do away with the NVIDIA chip set then you could probably afford a mid-range discrete GPU with only a minor increase in price (I've already proposed that a Sandy Bridge-based 13" MacBook Pro with a discrete GPU might increase in cost by $100). This also neatly eliminates your main justification for elimination of the 13" MacBook Pro -- that being that it isn't "pro" enough and is too close in features to the existing white MacBook. Frankly, I don't think that the white MacBook is ever going to be redesigned again -- it will stay with the Core 2 Duo and NVIDIA integrated graphics until it is discontinued within the next year. That means that there is plenty of room for a really "pro" 13" MacBook between the current low-end at $999 and the cheapest 15" MacBook Pro at $1799. That price range doesn't seem to be a "fairy tale" to me.
(5) 10 hours (7, realistically, and 3-4 while gaming) of battery life is plenty. I don't know anyone who needs to be without their MagSafe adapter any longer than that. So what's the point of extra battery life then?
Even more battery life isn't better? I think you're overreaching for a justification. Besides that, if they don't go for a larger battery then they can just go for a smaller and more light-weight system, more ports, more features, or all three. There are lots of things they could do with the space that is currently being used by the optical drive. I will admit, though, that one problem with the MacBook Airs is their limited battery life and that does make the white MacBook an attractive offer for those who need longer battery life.

JoJoCal19

Jan 27, 2011, 08:24 AM

jvmxtra

Jan 27, 2011, 08:26 AM

Folks stop dreaming of the specs... just want it to come out in feb

Northgrove

Jan 27, 2011, 08:27 AM

Yes, Sandy Bridge with SSD's, please!

winty03

Jan 27, 2011, 08:27 AM

Great news...love the Apple hardware refreshes! Super exciting! Have anyone heard if the iMac would possibly be refreshed along with the MBP's? In the market for the 27" iMac and wondering if I should pull the trigger now or wait for a refresh? Looking at the BG looks like its be a 3Q refresh on average....

fortunecookie

Jan 27, 2011, 08:30 AM

Ok as long as when it do comes out it should have:

*for 17inch MBP:
Quad SNB
SDD
USB 3.0
Longer battery life
And
No ODD

ckyaz

Jan 27, 2011, 08:36 AM

Do you think they would change the design of the Macbook pro this time around? The current design is amazing, but im starting to feel that it looks slightly outdated.

nonameowns

Jan 27, 2011, 08:37 AM

probably gonna get new laptop in least 5 years

mid 2010 mbp is good for me

this revision will have bit improvement than the last.

who gonna cares to able encode 10 sec faster than last gen can?

mcmlxix

Jan 27, 2011, 08:40 AM

and the one negative vote is for what reason?

Bots click all links.

devilcm3

Jan 27, 2011, 09:02 AM

More like 128GB, and for the people who only buy the 13" MacBook Pro because it's shiny, they (a) can clearly afford to spend $200 on looks, and (b) won't mind the smaller capacity, because all they do is check their e-mail/facebook on it anyway. Alternatively, it's not like you can't just buy a refurbished white MacBook of current and slap in a traditional 256GB SSD drive for barely over $1050. Breaking the bank in terms of SSD-based Mac options? I think not.

aluminium based macbooks are more durable than the plastic counterparts and
they don't look like coming out from a coal mine after 1+ year of usage , current macbook whites are prone to dirt , and yes its plastic .
what do you mean by smaller capacity ? i can slab my 500GB on my current notebook without inflicting any additional costs if it still has the HDD slot

and you can't buy a macbook white + 256GB SSD for the price less than $1199

third is that , i don't think many consumers are ready to accept SSD as their main storage mainly because of the cost per GB .

altecXP

Jan 27, 2011, 09:17 AM

If they keep the C2D in the 13in I hope it's at least the 2.66 and they get rid of the 2.4.

alent1234

Jan 27, 2011, 09:17 AM

interesting, i've been waiting for the new core i5's to come out. looking to buy a cheapo laptop in the $600 to $700 range and a new iPad. so far only the new i7's are being sold. Intel says mobile core i5's are coming 2/20/2011.

wonder if Intel and Apple worked out some kind of deal and everyone else has to wait?

Slurpy2k8

Jan 27, 2011, 09:26 AM

This is what I can see Apple doing, and what I personally believe they should do.

- Drop the price of the 13' air to $999, and the 11' to $899
- Rename Macbook Air to Macbook
- Discontinue the white macbook.

With the new affordability of the Airs, and the similarity of the 13' Macbook Pro, the current Macbook is looking less and less needed. They should get rid of it, and simplify their product line, which should also serve to unify it. It simply does not need to exist anymore, and by pushing the Air to the mainstream and rebranding it as their standard notebook, they will sell a ******** and will make people more comfortable with the idea of SSD storage and no optical. They should still be able to make a profit from it from the margins with economics of scale. Those who need a more traditional laptop can go for the 13' pro, which Apple can also discount slightly to make it a smoother transition from the white Macbook. All we need are some slight pricing adjustments to make the white Macbook irrelevant.

I hope they do this. It makes sense on all levels, especially if they want to push digital downloads and increased mobility.

Frobozz

Jan 27, 2011, 09:28 AM

My original model MacBook Pro is getting long in the tooth. It has served me well, but it's time for a replacement. After suffering the indignity of being sat on by my father in law, it looks like my mac's superdrive slot is always smiling at me. Frankly, I'm amazed it still works. I don't dare bend it back.

So, Apple, here's what I would like in my new MacBook Pro 15":

-- Antiglare high-res screen (Why do you charge more for the anti-glare?)
-- A blade SSD like the MB Air models
-- A replacement for the HD with a secondary SSD
-- 8GB Ram
-- Sandybridge architecture
-- GeForce 550M or 555M GPU
-- Intel i7-2920XM or i7-2820QM CPU
-- Multi-touch screen?
-- Drop the internal optical drive. It's dead weight.

I think that about covers it. :-)

thecharlesmoore

Jan 27, 2011, 09:46 AM

I just want the d*** thing to be thinner, weigh less, have better clock speed, and excellent NVIDIA graphics.

aCondor

Jan 27, 2011, 09:57 AM

Finally, some good news for Macs!

ECUpirate44

Jan 27, 2011, 10:00 AM

MBP 17' Sandy Bridge i5 Quad-core 3.3GHZ HERE YOU COMETH!

WOOOHOOOO!

Don't hold your breath on that quad core.

28Fiend

Jan 27, 2011, 10:03 AM

ECUpirate44

Jan 27, 2011, 10:06 AM

Is there an unofficial im waiting for sandy bridge thread? I'm not in the market for a new macbook pro, but the I'm waiting for Arrandale thread was just so much fun last year lol :p
We made it all the way up to part i7!

ECUpirate44

Jan 27, 2011, 10:08 AM

-- Multi-touch screen?

On a laptop? :rolleyes:

linux2mac

Jan 27, 2011, 10:08 AM

The current MacBook Pro 13" is pretty out-of-date.

(I know, I know, the Nvidia card, but a discrete graphics card should not be an issue in the 13")

It still performs better than any VAIO/HP/Dell/Compaq notebook I have owned and some of those desktops too. I am looking to go MBA on the next refresh.

Eidorian

Jan 27, 2011, 10:13 AM

It still performs better than any VAIO/HP/Dell/Compaq notebook I have owned and some of those desktops too. I am looking to go MBA on the next refresh.Do you have benchmarks?

ECUpirate44

Jan 27, 2011, 10:18 AM

Do you have benchmarks?

The only reason the MBA would out perform those PC's is because of OSX, if you looked at the benchmarks alone, i'm sure the windows machines would have the edge.

Mgkwho

Jan 27, 2011, 10:35 AM

This is what I can see Apple doing, and what I personally believe they should do.

- Drop the price of the 13' air to $999, and the 11' to $899
- Rename Macbook Air to Macbook
- Discontinue the white macbook.

[...]
All we need are some slight pricing adjustments to make the white Macbook irrelevant.

I agree with dropping the MacBook, but I don't see it happening any time soon. The MacBook is $300 cheaper than the 13" MBA, and has worse specs. A comparable replacement would cost much more than the $999 entry, and I'd like the entry price to be cheaper than $999.

Imagine if all of the new college students whose only pause is the ~$899 price of buying a MacBook had a cheaper alternative.

I also think Apple should preserve "Mac" and "MacBook" as words that describe their computers, and aren't the model names themselves. (E.G. there's an iMac and MacPro, but IMO appropriately no "Mac", yet there's a MacBook Air and MacBook Pro, and also a MacBook). So I'm not in favor of renaming the MBA if Apple were to drop the MacBook.

-=|Mgkwho

JonLa

Jan 27, 2011, 10:38 AM

So why do we actually think they're going out of stock? Most models seem to be available at amazon....

joeshmo

Jan 27, 2011, 11:00 AM

See you 2nd/3rd Tuesday in March, MBPs.

altecXP

Jan 27, 2011, 11:05 AM

See you 2nd/3rd Tuesday in March, MBPs.

If places are already running out I don't know if they can even last that long. Maybe to early Feb.

Tailpike1153

Jan 27, 2011, 11:18 AM

I just want the d*** thing to be thinner, weigh less, have better clock speed, and excellent NVIDIA graphics.

I just want to be cool and finally own a MacBook.

DeViAnThans3

Jan 27, 2011, 11:42 AM

On an international base:
Some online stores here in Belgium don't have any high-end 15" or 17" MBP's in stock anymore. Other Premium Resellers still have all MBP's in stock, though again the 15-17" are marked as "2 weeks stock".
In the Netherlands it seems like a different story, someone reported that mostly 13" MBP's seem to be out of stock.

ThaDoggg

Jan 27, 2011, 11:45 AM

I just want to be cool and finally own a MacBook.

Me too but I can wait until the summer...no rush for me.

fl89

Jan 27, 2011, 11:49 AM

Zulithe

Jan 27, 2011, 11:54 AM

I bought my first ever Mac, a 2010 Macbook Pro 15", in April 2010. This will be a bittersweet refresh for me, as my model is no longer the newest--Whaaahhh!! It was nice having the cutting edge for a while, but things are always advancing and everyone knows they do a refresh at this time of year, so... ;)

There is no way I'll upgrade again this year, no matter how amazing the refresh may be. I will definitely be gobbling down the details as they roll out though! The only thing that could even conceivably make me think of upgrading would be a blu-ray drive option (no, i'm not holding my breath).

Maybe in 2012...

As for this year's iphone or ipod refresh... Apple, my money is waiting!

profoshow

Jan 27, 2011, 11:56 AM

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; de-de) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

Amazon Germany: all mbp's are in stock. So only very bad rumors?!? Tz tz

yes... I was afraid of this, I almost bought a 15" MBP monday, but decided to wait a little while longer. We may be a bit premature on getting our hopes up. i have the money and will be ready to buy as soon as they come out...can't wait till June though so it better be here before then.;)

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 12:02 PM

Half their customer base? Are you sure you don't mean a handful of people on this website?

No, I actually mean half of its customer base. There are a lot of people that would like the 13" Pro to not just be an over-glorified non-Pro MacBook, because that's basically what it is right now. Roughly half of the people who buy that thing buy it for its looks, the other half because they want something better than the white MacBook, and currently it can barely be considered as such.

The 11" Air maybe a joke in your opinion. But many tech experts love it, even hardcore Windows users love the hardware. :)

People too superficial to realize that it is a neutered computer will surely love it just as they love their purse dogs. You can't tell me that for a faster computer, the 11" MacBook Air is a better buy over the white MacBook.

The 11" MacBook Air is perfect on price (you ignore it because you think it's a joke, but it's just your opinion). Many in education are recommending the 11" MBA to their students. I heard one teacher on a podcast last week saying their two recommended purchases are the MacBook Air and the iPod Touch or iPhone because it has the camera.

So is the white MacBook (at the same freakin' price), and guess what? It's faster!!! I'll bet said teacher isn't the one who makes the tech purchases; I'll also bet she falls into the "superficial buyer" category of Apple customer.

People were buying them because they thought they needed a powerful machine that could go on the road with them when necessary. But it turns out all that CPU power is unnecessary for many of us. The MacBook Air is more than adequate when coupled with SSD and 4gb RAM. I have seen many, many comments from owners of 15"/17" MacBook Pros saying they won't buy another one because the MacBook Air does what they need.

13" I'll grant you. 11" I won't. 1.4GHz is too slow to do anything serious, I'm sorry.

We'll see. MacBook Airs have been selling like hot cakes by all accounts since the 2010 models were introduced.

Oh sure. That's part of my argument as to why Apple will discontinue the 13" Pro.

Of course as long as there is a viable business around selling MacBook Pros then Apple will continue the product line. The question is how much longer will customers want bulky, expensive 15" / 17" laptops once they have experienced the portability of products like the MacBook Air? I'm not expecting the MBP to go away anytime soon. But it will become an increasingly niche product that fewer and fewer customers buy when faced with alternatives like the MBA and iPad.

Doubtful, more people still want a full-featured computer. Just trust me on this one. I deal with computer shoppers on a regular basis in my line of work.

I just red an interesting point regarding this news of tightening supplies. It seems unlogical that the "cheaper" resellers (Amazon, BestBuy etc)would run short on supplies, while usually it's Apple's online store or Premium Resellers who are running out first.

I've no idea how valid this point may be, but didn't found it here yet, and found it intersting enough to share.
If this is true, it makes it less probable that a refresh is imminent within the next 2-6 weeks. Either way, my hopes are still up ;)

I'm not readying my savings until I see the Best Buy lists. We're gearing up for it, but we still have a little while longer yet.

Just stream something from Netflix, Amazon, or Apple's own iTunes Store, DVDs aren't really that useful anymore. In any case, why would your girlfriend have a DVD and no means to watch it at her home? As for the rest, pretty simple, how about a USB thumb drive or an SD card? Much smaller, more rugged, naturally R/W, potentially much faster for access and way faster than CD/DVD +/-RW, and holds significantly more than a CD or DVD, and just like the thumb drive that Apple now ships for system restores on the MacBook Airs.

This is if we want to watch a movie in a room that isn't the common room; this happens at least once a week, mind you. And no, I'm not ripping every DVD I own on the optical drive I don't have in the machine, thanks.

[QUOTE=fpnc;11797847]As I said, if you need an optical drive just get one, no real reason to penalize everyone with the inclusion of a large and mostly unused optical drive just because you want to install Office or Final Cut (something you typically do once or twice during the entire lifetime of your computer). Besides that, as I mentioned earlier, if Apple begins to remove optical drives from the MacBook Pros the software companies are going to be pretty much forced to go to online distribution. Either that, or if worse comes to worst, they will just ship on flash-memory-based media (again, like Apple does for the system restores on the MacBook Airs).

Who said anything about it being a penalty? Frankly, it's more of a penalty of inconvenience to have to carry around an external ODD. Also, excluding the few people here, the amount of people pushing for the removal of the optical drive are in the vast MINORITY. You don't cite practical reasons as to why the ODD will be gone within the next three refreshes, whereas I'm citing nothing but practical reasons as to why it won't.

Purchase or rental? I don't see that those terms make a difference when it comes to software. Technically, you really don't purchase software or movies, you may "own" the physical media but you merely have a limited license for the content. In any case, your argument doesn't negate the convenience and cost savings that you get with internet-based delivery. Furthermore, with software you eventually end up transferring the content to your computer's hard drive which generally isn't the case for movies on DVD and Blu-ray. Let's face it if you HAD to transfer a movie from a DVD before you could use it wouldn't you consider the DVD a mere transfer medium, one that might be considered a kind of nuisance to store and maintain -- other than for backup? So, if the content (movie or software) was always available online, safe and secure wouldn't that be a good alternative? And why do you exclude the example of downloadable music versus audio CDs -- was it because it didn't support your argument?

Music makes more sense to be computer centric. Movies don't...yet. Plus you can burn a music CD whereas you can't with a movie. Also, you're telling me that they will first remove the optical drive which'll force the Internet based alternatives? What sense does that make? And what if my internet connection is spotty? You keep dodging that point because it doesn't fit YOUR argument.

If you strip out the optical drive and do away with the NVIDIA chip set then you could probably afford a mid-range discrete GPU with only a minor increase in price (I've already proposed that a Sandy Bridge-based 13" MacBook Pro with a discrete GPU might increase in cost by $100). This also neatly eliminates your main justification for elimination of the 13" MacBook Pro -- that being that it isn't "pro" enough and is too close in features to the existing white MacBook. Frankly, I don't think that the white MacBook is ever going to be redesigned again -- it will stay with the Core 2 Duo and NVIDIA integrated graphics until it is discontinued within the next year. That means that there is plenty of room for a really "pro" 13" MacBook between the current low-end at $999 and the cheapest 15" MacBook Pro at $1799. That price range doesn't seem to be a "fairy tale" to me.

They're not going to kill the optical drive in the next couple of refreshes so your above point is pretty much moot to begin with. Were it likely, sure, that'd give Apple a means of differentiating the 13" Pro from the other two 13" machines. But that's not even remotely likely. This is why I should've just dismissed your point to begin with.

Even more battery life isn't better? I think you're overreaching for a justification.

You're entire argument start to finish does just that.

Besides that, if they don't go for a larger battery then they can just go for a smaller and more light-weight system, more ports, more features, or all three. There are lots of things they could do with the space that is currently being used by the optical drive. I will admit, though, that one problem with the MacBook Airs is their limited battery life and that does make the white MacBook an attractive offer for those who need longer battery life.

Better battery life WITH an optical drive. Unless you really need that thin of a computer in which case, why aren't you just sticking with an Air anyway?

Do you think they would change the design of the Macbook pro this time around? The current design is amazing, but im starting to feel that it looks slightly outdated.

Nope.

aluminium based macbooks are more durable than the plastic counterparts and
they don't look like coming out from a coal mine after 1+ year of usage , current macbook whites are prone to dirt , and yes its plastic.

Aluminum dents, plastic dings Aluminum may be the stronger material, but it's not the most durable at all.

and you can't buy a macbook white + 256GB SSD for the price less than $1199

You can buy a refurbished white MacBook and put in a 2.5" 256GB SSD for less than that amount, you just can't do so from Apple.

third is that , i don't think many consumers are ready to accept SSD as their main storage mainly because of the cost per GB .

And that's fair. I'm certainly not ready for it yet.

If they keep the C2D in the 13in I hope it's at least the 2.66 and they get rid of the 2.4.

or at least just a single 2.53 config.

linux2mac

Jan 27, 2011, 12:05 PM

Do you have benchmarks?

Sure do. No viruses, no blue screens of death, no driver issues, no Explorer Outlook conflicts, no wireless issues, no anti-virus software causing network conflicts, no IIS issues, should I go on? I have almost twenty years worth of PC and Windows issues to list and zero issues since I went to Mac in 2009. ;)

murdercitydevil

Jan 27, 2011, 12:14 PM

supplies don't mean much IMO. Arrandale had multiple inventory shortage rumors but nothing ever came out of it. I'm guessing March.

nfable

Jan 27, 2011, 12:14 PM

Just to confirm, I work as a marketer for a reseller that is supplied by Ingram Micro and all 15" and 17" are being refreshed - no definite ETA or specs known. Yummy.

profoshow

Jan 27, 2011, 12:23 PM

Just to confirm, I work as a marketer for a reseller that is supplied by Ingram Micro and all 15" and 17" are being refreshed - no definite ETA or specs known. Yummy.

AWESOME!!! the sooner the better.

Just noticed BB's 17" i5 mbp are backordered 1-2 weeks :D

lifeguard90

Jan 27, 2011, 12:26 PM

they will be here before march

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 12:31 PM

Just to confirm, I work as a marketer for a reseller that is supplied by Ingram Micro and all 15" and 17" are being refreshed - no definite ETA or specs known. Yummy.

Word on the 13"? I work for a reseller that is also supplied by Ingram Micro. Where on their site did you find this all out?

they will be here before march

Not necessarily, though more likely than not.

Eidorian

Jan 27, 2011, 12:36 PM

Sure do. No viruses, no blue screens of death, no driver issues, no Explorer Outlook conflicts, no wireless issues, no anti-virus software causing network conflicts, no IIS issues, should I go on? I have almost twenty years worth of PC and Windows issues to list and zero issues since I went to Mac in 2009. ;)Sadly nothing I can replicate.

pedrofan

Jan 27, 2011, 12:37 PM

Just to confirm, I work as a marketer for a reseller that is supplied by Ingram Micro and all 15" and 17" are being refreshed - no definite ETA or specs known. Yummy.

Knowing this, and with your knowledgement and experience in your job.
Wich are your feelings?
Do you think it will be in february or early march?
Do you discard april?

Filipek

Jan 27, 2011, 12:44 PM

Do you have benchmarks?

Does it matter? A Ferrari that is limited by importer to 250 km/h but could go 400 km/h won't go faster than 250 km/h

Eidorian

Jan 27, 2011, 12:46 PM

Does it matter? A Ferrari that is limited by importer to 250 km/h but could go 400 km/h won't go faster than 250 km/hI have no fascination with cars. Perhaps you could try something else?

iBuru

Jan 27, 2011, 12:51 PM

What about iMac updates? Would be logical to take advantage of the MBP update to introduce new iMac, right? I hope so :D:D

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 12:54 PM

What about iMac updates? Would be logical to take advantage of the MBP update to introduce new iMac, right? I hope so :D:D

Nope. Nice try though. The iMac is more than three months younger in its refresh cycle and it tends to keep roughly as long of a refresh cycle as the MacBook Pro line.

pedrofan

Jan 27, 2011, 12:56 PM

What about iMac updates? Would be logical to take advantage of the MBP update to introduce new iMac, right? I hope so :D:D

iMacs are so much refreshed than macbook pros, that still has directx10 graphics cards... So you can imagine..

Filipek

Jan 27, 2011, 12:58 PM

I have no fascination with cars. Perhaps you could try something else?

I wasn't planning of starting an argument about it, and of course this is subjective but for me a Windows laptop is comparable with a normal HDD and an Apple with a SSD. Surely this is only based on own experiences and no proof for that, but it just seems like everything with Apple products goes a lot smoother. For example I have a Windows Mobile phone which has a 1 ghz processor and should be extremely fast, but it runs slower (when time goes by slower and slower) than an Iphone which has less processor power for example.
The same with Windows, I have never ever owned a computer (in 15 years I have owned some) which I hadn't had to format eventually because the performance where going down drastically....
Personally I never owned an Apple computer but I have enough material in my close environment to have a reasonable comparisson.

Eidorian

Jan 27, 2011, 12:59 PM

I wasn't planning of starting an argument about it, and of course this is subjective but for me a Windows laptop is comparable with a normal HDD and an Apple with a SSD. Surely this is only based on own experiences and no proof for that, but it just seems like everything with Apple products goes a lot smoother. For example I have a Windows Mobile phone which has a 1 ghz processor and should be extremely fast, but it runs slower (when time goes by slower and slower) than an Iphone which has less processor power for example.
The same with Windows, I have never ever owned a computer (in 15 years I have owned some) which I hadn't had to format eventually because the performance where going down drastically....
Personally I never owned an Apple computer but I have enough material in my close environment to have a reasonable comparisson.Perhaps you should get a SSD for that Windows laptop. I still putter around with 5400 RPM on my Macbook. (Painfully slow but I am lucky to use my Macbook for an hour a week.) If responsiveness is the only metric than I should buy a SSD. I would rather have a RAID 0 though given the prices.

iBuru

Jan 27, 2011, 01:04 PM

Nope. Nice try though. The iMac is more than three months younger in its refresh cycle and it tends to keep roughly as long of a refresh cycle as the MacBook Pro line.

Damn it! According to 'MacRumor's Buyer's Guide' : Days Since last iMac update 184 (Avg = 226)... So a month and a half! Still hoping update by mid/late March!

I know i'm dreaming...:(

Crossing fingers anyway:rolleyes:

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 01:09 PM

Damn it! According to 'MacRumor's Buyer's Guide' : Days Since last iMac update 184 (Avg = 226)... So a month and a half! Still hoping update by mid/late March!

I know i'm dreaming...:(

Crossing fingers anyway:rolleyes:

Late March/early April sounds about right. Or at least, that's when we'll be seeing threads of "When is the new iMac gonna get here?!"

Filipek

Jan 27, 2011, 01:14 PM

Perhaps you should get a SSD for that Windows laptop. I still putter around with 5400 RPM on my Macbook. (Painfully slow but I am lucky to use my Macbook for an hour a week.) If responsiveness is the only metric than I should buy a SSD. I would rather have a RAID 0 though given the prices.

Well I wasn't talking about my laptop, but concerning my laptop, which is a Dell laptop a little more than 3 years old and I have bad sectors on my Harddisk and my adapter broke a couple of weeks ago. I am not planning to invest money in it, since I am afraid more things can brake in the near future and I prefer to buy a new Macbook (Pro) instead and have a rather safe investment of my money. Also a couple of weeks ago before both of my parts broke down, I had to format my laptop because of some strange virus or whatever it was, which wouldn't let me start up my windows at all anymore (And I am always up to date with my virus scanners, malware scanners etc. etc.). I am tired of things like that and as far as I know there still are no viruses on Apple computers which is another huge advantage for me to consider an Apple laptop :)

pedrofan

Jan 27, 2011, 01:18 PM

Damn it! According to 'MacRumor's Buyer's Guide' : Days Since last iMac update 184 (Avg = 226)... So a month and a half! Still hoping update by mid/late March!

I know i'm dreaming...:(

Crossing fingers anyway:rolleyes:

Read all the information please:

Product MacBook Pro
Recommendation: Don't Buy - Updates soon *
Notes * The 15-inch and 17-inch MacBook Pro received a new build-to-order option for a 2.8 GHz Intel Core i7 processor on October 20th, 2010. We do not, however, consider this to be a significant update to the product line and thus do not include it as a data point for our calculations. Consequently, we do consider the MacBook Pro to be near the end of its product cycle based on the most recent major upgrade date of April 2010 and advise users who do not require new machines immediately to hold off on purchasing MacBook Pros.
Last Release April 13, 2010
Days Since Update 289 (Avg = 208)

If they counted the october refresh, that information should be like this:

Product MacBook Pro
Recommendation: Buy only if you need it - Approaching the end of a cycle
Last Release October 10, 2010
Days Since Update 111 (Avg = 208)

iamnotanumber

Jan 27, 2011, 01:46 PM

Posted this in MBP forum too but thought I should repeat it here.

I work in Currys UK (dont laugh) and with access to PC world and Currys stock file I can confirm shortages of 15" and 17" in our main warehouses (base models of both are showing as 0 available with no order due date). Still a few kicking about in superstores and they are allowing us to do forward orders, but stock is low.
13" model still has 300 or so still available in our central warehouse.

greytmom

Jan 27, 2011, 01:50 PM

Read all the information please:

Product MacBook Pro
Recommendation: Don't Buy - Updates soon *
Notes * The 15-inch and 17-inch MacBook Pro received a new build-to-order option for a 2.8 GHz Intel Core i7 processor on October 20th, 2010. We do not, however, consider this to be a significant update to the product line and thus do not include it as a data point for our calculations. Consequently, we do consider the MacBook Pro to be near the end of its product cycle based on the most recent major upgrade date of April 2010 and advise users who do not require new machines immediately to hold off on purchasing MacBook Pros.
Last Release April 13, 2010
Days Since Update 289 (Avg = 208)

If they counted the october refresh, that information should be like this:

Product MacBook Pro
Recommendation: Buy only if you need it - Approaching the end of a cycle
Last Release October 10, 2010
Days Since Update 111 (Avg = 208)

Read all the information please - the guy was posting the update info on the iMac, not the MacBook Pro.

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 01:52 PM

Just to confirm, I work as a marketer for a reseller that is supplied by Ingram Micro and all 15" and 17" are being refreshed - no definite ETA or specs known. Yummy.

Posted this in MBP forum too but thought I should repeat it here.

I work in Currys UK (dont laugh) and with access to PC world and Currys stock file I can confirm shortages of 15" and 17" in our main warehouses (base models of both are showing as 0 available with no order due date). Still a few kicking about in superstores and they are allowing us to do forward orders, but stock is low.
13" model still has 300 or so still available in our central warehouse.

Well assuming either of these reports have any weight and assuming anything else we've heard has any weight, then either:

(a) The 13" MacBook Pro isn't getting discontinued, it just isn't getting updated either

(b) The 13" MacBook Pro is getting discontinued.

or (c) It's still too early and none of this means anything.

Read all the information please - the guy was posting the update info on the iMac, not the MacBook Pro.

Win.

iBuru

Jan 27, 2011, 01:55 PM

Read all the information please:

Product MacBook Pro
Recommendation: Don't Buy - Updates soon *
Notes * The 15-inch and 17-inch MacBook Pro received a new build-to-order option for a 2.8 GHz Intel Core i7 processor on October 20th, 2010. We do not, however, consider this to be a significant update to the product line and thus do not include it as a data point for our calculations. Consequently, we do consider the MacBook Pro to be near the end of its product cycle based on the most recent major upgrade date of April 2010 and advise users who do not require new machines immediately to hold off on purchasing MacBook Pros.
Last Release April 13, 2010
Days Since Update 289 (Avg = 208)

If they counted the october refresh, that information should be like this:

Product MacBook Pro
Recommendation: Buy only if you need it - Approaching the end of a cycle
Last Release October 10, 2010
Days Since Update 111 (Avg = 208)

I do not understand what you mean by that...:confused::confused::confused:

I don't care about MBP, we were talking about the iMac

Saludos!

(+1 for those who replied "Win!" or "Read all the information") ;);)

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 02:03 PM

I do not understand what you mean by that...:confused::confused::confused:

I don't care about MBP, we were talking about the iMac

Saludos!

(+1 for all who replied "Win!")

Well, he is right, MacRumors.com does have the "Buyer's Guide" section for a reason, and it's the best way to guess when the refresh you're looking at will occur and you should look at it before posting. But yeah, he had you down for the wrong computer.

nyctravis

Jan 27, 2011, 02:04 PM

pedrofan

Jan 27, 2011, 02:04 PM

Sorry, this post is called "MacBook Pro Supplies Tightening Ahead of Potential Refresh"

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 02:08 PM

One of the reasons for this story was that availability was slipping, suggesting updates soon. But I just checked amazon and macmall and all MBPs are listed as in stock. Does this now suggest perhaps the updates are further into the future than thought? Or?

It means that it's time for the rumors that actually mean something about this refresh to finally surface. Shipping times might be only starting to slip; I wouldn't ready the online shopping cart just yet though.

Sorry, this post is called "MacBook Pro Supplies Tightening Ahead of Potential Refresh"

And he's saying that there's no substantial and visable evidence of that. Read his comment before giving him flack for it.

iBuru

Jan 27, 2011, 02:10 PM

Well, he is right, MacRumors.com does have the "Buyer's Guide" section for a reason, and it's the best way to guess when the refresh you're looking at will occur and you should look at it before posting. But yeah, he had you down for the wrong computer.

:confused:

Yes... Just asking for other opinions (I had already consulted the "Buyer's Guide" when I posted the first comment)

Damn it! According to 'MacRumor's Buyer's Guide' : Days Since last iMac update 184 (Avg = 226)... So a month and a half! Still hoping update by mid/late March!

I know i'm dreaming...:(

Crossing fingers anyway:rolleyes:

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 02:44 PM

:confused:

Yes... Just asking for other opinions (I had already consulted the "Buyer's Guide" when I posted the first comment)

I think he was referring to your first post, and I'm only making reference to his reference.

blue22

Jan 27, 2011, 02:47 PM

Hey all~

I'm in desperate need of a new laptop, still rocking the Powerbook G4. Needed for class now, needed for trip to Japan at the end of April.

Wait for an unkown re-vamped model, unknown release date?

Buy one now because it's here now?

I would wait just a little longer.

As long as you have a computer that functions fine at the moment and it can hold you over until the next refresh (definitely by April, if not sooner) you'll regret buying one now only to see the entire MBP line updated within the next 6 weeks or so.

Also, just FYI, Apple offers a 30 day buy-back so if you purchase a new computer and within 30 days they release a newer, more updated system, you can exchange your purchase for the difference in price with the newer system -- but keep in mind this is different from their general 14 day return policy.

So, I think you're better off waiting at least a couple more weeks before pulling the trigger on any new MBP purchase. In that way a) some more reliable update/refresh info should surface by then and b) you'll be closer to potentially taking advantage of any buy-backs, if needed.

iBuru

Jan 27, 2011, 02:53 PM

I think he was referring to your first post, and I'm only making reference to his reference.

Oh, OK :D sry

blue22

Jan 27, 2011, 03:05 PM

With the new affordability of the Airs, and the similarity of the 13' Macbook Pro, the current Macbook is looking less and less needed. They should get rid of it, and simplify their product line, which should also serve to unify it.

I agree with you in principal, but we'll see.

So why do we actually think they're going out of stock? Most models seem to be available at amazon....

I wouldn't worry about this too much outside of it being a side note. The fact is the MBP's are due for a refresh within the next 6-8 weeks primarily based on the buyer's guide historical data of MBP refreshes (http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#MacBook_Pro) and the fact that 2/20/11 is the official public release date for the 2nd generation of Intel i-Core mobile chipsets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge_(microarchitecture)#Mobile_processors), if we're lucky Apple will release Sandy Bridge MBP's by the 20th of February or within a few weeks shortly after. Bringing me too...

See you 2nd/3rd Tuesday in March, MBPs.

supplies don't mean much IMO. Arrandale had multiple inventory shortage rumors but nothing ever came out of it. I'm guessing March.

I think this is a safe bet as well, but it's still possible that Apple could announce the MBP Sandy Bridge systems a week or two prior to this. Either way of it, the latest substantial refresh is just around the corner.

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 03:17 PM

I would wait just a little longer.

As long as you have a computer that functions fine at the moment and it can hold you over until the next refresh (definitely by April, if not sooner) you'll regret buying one now only to see the entire MBP line updated within the next 6 weeks or so.

Also, just FYI, Apple offers a 30 day buy-back so if you purchase a new computer and within 30 days they release a newer, more updated system, you can exchange your purchase for the difference in price with the newer system -- but keep in mind this is different from their general 14 day return policy.

So, I think you're better off waiting at least a couple more weeks before pulling the trigger on any new MBP purchase. In that way a) some more reliable update/refresh info should surface by then and b) you'll be closer to potentially taking advantage of any buy-backs of needed.

That's not terrible advice.

blue22

Jan 27, 2011, 03:35 PM

No, I actually mean half of its customer base. There are a lot of people that would like the 13" Pro to not just be an over-glorified non-Pro MacBook, because that's basically what it is right now. Roughly half of the people who buy that thing buy it for its looks, the other half because they want something better than the white MacBook, and currently it can barely be considered as such.

People too superficial to realize that it is a neutered computer will surely love it just as they love their purse dogs. You can't tell me that for a faster computer, the 11" MacBook Air is a better buy over the white MacBook. ...

I don't think most people who are tech-savvy or are at least half-informed disagrees with you that the white MB is a better system performance-wise when compared to the 13" MacBook Air and is a much less expensive option when compared to the 13" MacBook Pro, regarding dollar value for features. And I also completely agree with you that the current 13" MBP is "an over-glorified non-Pro MacBook", but the reality is a lot of people are buying these 13" MBP's, and it's partly due to it's stylish form factor in contrast to the dated looking white plastic 13" MB. And I'm willing to bet more non-Pro users buy this system than otherwise.

So, this is where I think Apple will address the current "choice bottleneck" for consumers that is going on currently between the 13" MBA, 13" MB and 13" MBP and will simplify the lineup a bit more by potentially dropping one of these products. If the white MB remains for this next refresh then I'm pretty sure this will be it's last generation before being EOL'ed.

For this upcoming refresh I can see Apple offering a 11" & 13" MBA and 15" & 17" MBP as their primary laptop focus, with a "legacy" 13" MB/MBP as an option for those who need a system between the MBA & MBP for both price-point and system feature considerations. That's just a guess, but we'll all know soon enough, won't we? :)

veedubdrew

Jan 27, 2011, 03:45 PM

Also, just FYI, Apple offers a 30 day buy-back so if you purchase a new computer and within 30 days they release a newer, more updated system, you can exchange your purchase for the difference in price with the newer system -- but keep in mind this is different from their general 14 day return policy.

For reasons few would care about I *had* to buy a machine last week. I new of the coming SB updates and was holding out for that but my hands were tied.

Is there a reference anywhere to this 30 day return policy when a new model drops? I like my new 15" i5 but I'm contemplating returning it for a refund and just using my ipad until the SB hits the shelves. Some link to this 30 day policy would be awesome as I can't find mention of it on Apple's return policy website.

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 03:50 PM

I don't think most people who are tech-savvy or are at least half-informed disagrees with you that the white MB is a better system performance-wise when compared to the 13" MacBoor Air and is a much less expensive option when compared to the 13" MacBook Pro, regarding dollar value for features. And I also completely agree with you that the current 13" MBP is "an over-glorified non-Pro MacBook", but the reality is a lot of people are buying these 13" MBP's, and it's partly due to it's stylish form factor in contrast to the dated looking white plastic 13" MB. And I'm willing to bet more non-Pro users buy this system than otherwise.

So, this is where I think Apple will address the current "choice bottleneck" for consumers that is going on currently between the 13" MBA, 13" MB and 13" MBP and will simplify the lineup a bit more by potentially dropping one of these products. If the white MB remains for this next refresh then I'm pretty sure this will be it's last generation before being EOL'ed.

For this upcoming refresh I can see Apple offering a 11" & 13" MBA and 15" & 17" MBP as their primary laptop focus, with a "legacy" 13" MB/MBP as an option for those who need a system between the MBA & MBP for both price-point and system feature considerations. That's just a guess, but we'll all know soon enough, won't we? :)

I'm told by a friend who used to work for Apple that they were considering dropping the white MacBook during the reign of the Late 2008 Aluminum MacBook before they became the 13" MacBook Pro. It didn't happen because they rationalized that they needed a durable laptop for the education market and the polycarbonate plastic takes much more takes external damage far more gracefully than the aluminum does. So when they rebranded said Aluminum MacBook as the 13" MacBook Pro, the debate came up again, and the same decision stood, so they made the design we all know and love (or don't if you hate the white MB) today. Frankly, their logic on all of that makes sense and isn't all that surprising. So for that reason, I'm skeptical that, if it came to the white MacBook or the 13" Pro, the white MacBook would be the one being discontinued.

For those that prefer the style and care not about specs, the 13" Air is poised to take the place of the 13" Pro whether the 13" Pro gets discontinued or not. For those that care about specs, the 15" Pro will suffice, and for those that want the power of the 13" Pro, the white MacBook will suffice unless you want the 2.66GHz model which is a rip-off anyway, in my opinion.

paintballswimgu

Jan 27, 2011, 03:54 PM

Here's macmall's stock list. for anyone who is interested.

http://www.macmall.com/n/Mac-Computers-Accessories-Apple-Warehouse-Blowout/macCustomPages-3508

darkeartg

Jan 27, 2011, 03:55 PM

altecXP

Jan 27, 2011, 03:59 PM

Wow, 1? Starting to look like refresh will be early next week.

Microcenter have very little of any Mac laptop except 13in Pro. It has over 20 in stock.

blue22

Jan 27, 2011, 04:01 PM

For reasons few would care about I *had* to buy a machine last week. I new of the coming SB updates and was holding out for that but my hands were tied.

Is there a reference anywhere to this 30 day return policy when a new model drops? I like my new 15" i5 but I'm contemplating returning it for a refund and just using my ipad until the SB hits the shelves. Some link to this 30 day policy would be awesome as I can't find mention of it on Apple's return policy website.

Dude, I feel your pain. My 17" PowerBook G4 logic board just died two nights ago so I'm in a similar predicament as you were recently regarding the *dire need* to secure a replacement ASAP, but despite this I'm trying to hold out another 2-4 weeks before I drop cash on a new system so I can still have a chance to upgrade to Sandy Bridge -- worse case scenario I'll eat the cost of this purchase and sell it off to raise monies for an upgrade to Ivy Bridge when it debuts, which is scheduled for end of 2011/early 2012 release. So, even if I'm stuck with an April/Oct 2010 MBP that's still not a bad holdover until IB, considering where I'm currently upgrading from ;)

As for the "link" regarding the 30-day buy-back policy, I don't see it listed on the Apple website either, but I've asked several Apple store staff in person at several different locations about this and they all confirm it's true. But don't take my word for it, just call up your local Apple store and inquire about it with them; call multiple ones just to cover your basis. Good luck!

blue22

Jan 27, 2011, 04:09 PM

... So for that reason, I'm skeptical that, if it came to the white MacBook or the 13" Pro, the white MacBook would be the one being discontinued. ...

We're in agreement about the future fate of the white MB, we just differ in opinion on how Apple will implement their soon-to-be refreshed laptop line up offerings based on our respective best educated guesses.

blue22

Jan 27, 2011, 04:26 PM

Yes could you please show me this as well, i've been looking for this 30 day return policy
i just bought my 15" i7 last friday so i'm wondering if i should return it as well =(

As well as what I just posted above to Veedubdrew there's also a MacRumors link on this issue from the summer worth reviewing, just FYI:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=894160

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 04:34 PM

We're in agreement about the future fate of the white MB, we just differ in opinion on how Apple will implement their soon-to-be refreshed laptop line up offerings based on our respective best educated guesses.

More or less, though I would probably be less surprised if the white MacBook stuck it out indefinitely. I may be a little more firm about my notion that the 13" Pro is gone sooner rather than later. But otherwise, yeah, we're more or less in line with each other.

animatedude

Jan 27, 2011, 04:48 PM

who ****** cares about 15' & 17' MBPs?! give me the new 13 inch MBP please...

fpnc

Jan 27, 2011, 04:54 PM

probably gonna get new laptop in least 5 years

mid 2010 mbp is good for me

this revision will have bit improvement than the last.

who gonna cares to able encode 10 sec faster than last gen can?
Actually, the new Sandy Bridge CPU includes a technology called Quick Sync that can dramatically speed up video encoding. If Apple makes use of Quick Sync you might see encoding times reduced by a tremendous amount. AnandTech did a review on Sandy Bridge using Quick Sync optimized encoders and they got encoding speeds of up to 280fps on a 720p conversion. In fact, they encoded a one minute and thirty-thee second long video clip to 720p H.264 in only ten seconds.

Check out this link is you want to be truly amazed: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/the-sandy-bridge-review-intel-core-i7-2600k-i5-2500k-core-i3-2100-tested/8

The above link covers the desktop version of the Sandy Bridge processor, but the mobile version includes the same HD3000 graphics core at a somewhat lower clock and I'd expect that the mobile version would still offer really great encoding performance. In fact, here is a review on the mobile Sandy Bridge CPU using Quick Sync:

http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Intel-Core-i72820QM-Mobile-Sandy-Bridge-Processor-Review/?page=4

In this test the Quick Sync hardware was about 4 times as fast as a software-only technique (also on Sandy Bridge) and it was about ten times faster than when using a Core 2 Duo. It was even 4 times as fast as the hardware-accelerated NVIDIA GeForce GTX 280M encode.

cmaier

Jan 27, 2011, 04:55 PM

who ****** cares about 15' & 17' MBPs?! give me the new 13 inch MBP please...

Who cares about tiny little toys. Give me the new 17 inch MBP please.

The Samurai

Jan 27, 2011, 04:56 PM

Nice one OP for putting this list together ;)

altecXP

Jan 27, 2011, 05:07 PM

Who cares about tiny little toys. Give me the new 17 inch MBP please.

Not to start a fight... but I have never seen a 17in in use in public.

veedubdrew

Jan 27, 2011, 05:11 PM

Thanks for the updates everyone!

I just checked Best Buy's inventory at the stores in my area via their website. Keep in mind this is Los Angeles where every Hollywood nitwit uses a Mac and stocks are usually healthy to accommodate said folks.

No 17" models in stock anywhere with "backordered: usually leaves our warehouse within 1-2 weeks" listed.

Several stores depleted of 15" models with 3-5 day wait times.

Something's coming!

vipergts2207

Jan 27, 2011, 05:15 PM

who ****** cares about 15' & 17' MBPs?! give me the new 13 inch MBP please...

Anyone who does something on their computer aside from checking email and facebook. Run along now kiddo and let the big boys talk about real computer hardware.

ee4life

Jan 27, 2011, 05:36 PM

Actually, the new Sandy Bridge CPU includes a technology called Quick Sync that can dramatically speed up video encoding. If Apple makes use of Quick Sync you might see encoding times reduced by a tremendous amount. AnandTech did a review on Sandy Bridge using Quick Sync optimized encoders and they got encoding speeds of up to 280fps on a 720p conversion. In fact, they encoded a one minute and thirty-thee second long video clip to 720p H.264 in only ten seconds.

Check out this link is you want to be truly amazed: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/the-sandy-bridge-review-intel-core-i7-2600k-i5-2500k-core-i3-2100-tested/8

The above link covers the desktop version of the Sandy Bridge processor, but the mobile version includes the same HD3000 graphics core at a somewhat lower clock and I'd expect that the mobile version would still offer really great encoding performance. In fact, here is a review on the mobile Sandy Bridge CPU using Quick Sync:

http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Intel-Core-i72820QM-Mobile-Sandy-Bridge-Processor-Review/?page=4

In this test the Quick Sync hardware was about 4 times as fast as a software-only technique (also on Sandy Bridge) and it was about ten times faster than when using a Core 2 Duo. It was even 4 times as fast as the hardware-accelerated NVIDIA GeForce GTX 280M encode.

I don't believe it is explicitly specified which CPU encoder library it is being compared against in those articles (at least I didn't see it on a quick scan, just the software application being used for the encoding). Not all CPU encoders are equal in terms of speed or quality. There is no doubt that Quick Sync will be useful for encoding for temporary videos (i.e. for mobile devices) but I could never see myself using it for anything in a permanent collection due to the quality trade-off compared to CPU encoding. I would be very interested to see how much faster it is than say Handbrake (using x264 lib) when x264 settings are adjusted to deliver quality similar to QS.

But back to the topic, I hope the update drops soon. I told my brother the updates would probably be coming in the next couple of months, which means he can either get the latest and greatest or get a discount on the previous gen. Either way he wins because he will no longer have to use a netbook as his primary computer and he'll be switching to Mac! :D

meatballs

Jan 27, 2011, 05:44 PM

Anyone who does something on their computer aside from checking email and facebook. Run along now kiddo and let the big boys talk about real computer hardware.

I like what you did there :D

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 05:46 PM

who ****** cares about 15' & 17' MBPs?! give me the new 13 inch MBP please...

It's certainly one of the more intriguing bits about this next refresh as the 15" and 17" models are pretty much guaranteed to have Sandy Bridge and an upgraded discrete GPU, but those machines are, by no means insignificant.

Thanks for the updates everyone!

I just checked Best Buy's inventory at the stores in my area via their website. Keep in mind this is Los Angeles where every Hollywood nitwit uses a Mac and stocks are usually healthy to accommodate said folks.

No 17" models in stock anywhere with "backordered: usually leaves our warehouse within 1-2 weeks" listed.

Several stores depleted of 15" models with 3-5 day wait times.

Something's coming!

Damn, now I have Westside Story stuck in my head (or at least that one song).

Anyone who does something on their computer aside from checking email and facebook. Run along now kiddo and let the big boys talk about real computer hardware.

Lulz.

fpnc

Jan 27, 2011, 06:20 PM

...They're not going to kill the optical drive in the next couple of refreshes so your above point is pretty much moot to begin with. Were it likely, sure, that'd give Apple a means of differentiating the 13" Pro from the other two 13" machines. But that's not even remotely likely. This is why I should've just dismissed your point to begin with...
Well, we will see. I think we just have to agree to disagree, we're pretty much just pushing our own opinions anyway and there are points in both of our favors. In any case, I'm fully convinced that the internal optical drives will be gone from the MacBook Pros within the next year, so your claim that they won't be gone "in the next couple of refreshes" seems to indicate that you believe that it won't happen until we're well into 2012, which is a long time to wait (for you to be proven "right" or for me to be totally wrong).

As a final word on this matter, I'd suggest that everyone take out a CD jewel case and place it on the top of their MacBook keyboard. Note that it takes up almost 1/4 of the surface area and nearly that much of the volume of a 13" MacBook. Do you really think that having that much space taken up by a device that you seldom use is a good thing? And it makes even less sense for a mobile device that will most likely never have a need for a CD/DVD when away from the home or office.

As far as differentiating the current line of 13" MacBooks, the Sandy Bridge processor is going to do that. The MacBook Pros will have Sandy Bridge, the white MacBook and the MacBook Airs will have the Core 2 Duo. That's going to represent a huge gap in performance between the products. You're not actually believing that Apple is going to put the Sandy Bridge CPU in a soon-to-be-released version of the white MacBook? We're not going to see a processor change in the white MacBook until both the Mac mini and MacBook Airs are ready to do the same. That will be the telling event, if Apple comes out with a Sandy Bridge-based white MacBook then you can be fairly certain that the white MacBook will be here for several more years. Otherwise, it's axe-time for the white MacBook. As for the MacBook Airs, they will probably transition to a low-voltage Sandy Bridge part within the next year, but that won't happen before the latter part of 2011 or maybe not even until early 2012 at which time Ivy Bridge might be the logical choice.

B. Hunter

Jan 27, 2011, 06:28 PM

This refresh will be revealing. Might tell us a lot about the future of Mac pro apps.

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 06:43 PM

Well, we will see. I think we just have to agree to disagree, we're pretty much just pushing our own opinions anyway and there are points in both of our favors. In any case, I'm fully convinced that the internal optical drives will be gone from the MacBook Pros within the next year, so your claim that they won't be gone "in the next couple of refreshes" seems to indicate that you believe that it won't happen until we're well into 2012, which is a long time to wait (for you to be proven "right" or for me to be totally wrong).

As a final word on this matter, I'd suggest that everyone take out a CD jewel case and place it on the top of their MacBook keyboard. Note that it takes up almost 1/4 of the surface area and nearly that much of the volume of a 13" MacBook. Do you really think that having that much space taken up by a device that you seldom use is a good thing? And it makes even less sense for a mobile device that will most likely never have a need for a CD/DVD when away from the home or office.

As far as differentiating the current line of 13" MacBooks, the Sandy Bridge processor is going to do that. The MacBook Pros will have Sandy Bridge, the white MacBook and the MacBook Airs will have the Core 2 Duo. That's going to represent a huge gap in performance between the products. You're not actually believing that Apple is going to put the Sandy Bridge CPU in a soon-to-be-released version of the white MacBook? We're not going to see a processor change in the white MacBook until both the Mac mini and MacBook Airs are ready to do the same. That will be the telling event, if Apple comes out with a Sandy Bridge-based white MacBook then you can be fairly certain that the white MacBook will be here for several more years. Otherwise, it's axe-time for the white MacBook. As for the MacBook Airs, they will probably transition to a low-voltage Sandy Bridge part within the next year, but that won't happen before the latter part of 2011 or maybe not even until early 2012 at which time Ivy Bridge might be the logical choice.

I don't use the optical drive every day, but when I do, I'm grateful it is there. Most computer users (PC and Mac alike) are with me on this one, they just don't lurk on these forums. You'll have to trust me on that.

Second, the white MacBook and the 13" MBP are the same computer, save for port differences and enclosure. It makes no sense to give one a new chip and withhold it from the other. If one gets it, then if the other one is still around, it gets it. That's the trend. Get it?

In the meantime, the 13" Pro isn't being refreshed. The incoming sources of low stock on the 15" and 17" MBPs are also indicating that the stock isn't low on the 13" and it's pretty consistent. So either it'll merge with the white MacBook or it'll disappear. Leaving whatever the non-Pro "MacBook" is at that point to run Core 2 Duo and the 320M until Ivy Bridge. I'd bet actual money on it at this point.

This refresh will be revealing. Might tell us a lot about the future of Mac pro apps.

I wouldn't go that far. It'll be telling of Apple's take on NVIDIA's mobile discrete GPUs and it'll be telling about the fate of the 13" Pro. Otherwise, it'll be pretty ho-hum save for the speed boosts.

fpnc

Jan 27, 2011, 06:57 PM

I don't believe it is explicitly specified which CPU encoder library it is being compared against in those articles (at least I didn't see it on a quick scan, just the software application being used for the encoding). Not all CPU encoders are equal in terms of speed or quality. There is no doubt that Quick Sync will be useful for encoding for temporary videos (i.e. for mobile devices) but I could never see myself using it for anything in a permanent collection due to the quality trade-off compared to CPU encoding. I would be very interested to see how much faster it is than say Handbrake (using x264 lib) when x264 settings are adjusted to deliver quality similar to QS...
Three points, those reviews say that the Quick Sync technology supports up to main profile H.264, which is just about all that people will use since that's the top of the spec for the Apple TV and all of the mobile iOS devices (including the iPad). Second, they say that Intel worked very hard to match the encoding quality that was produced when using strictly software-based techniques (that relied on previous generation Intel CPUs). Lastly, they said that the encoding quality when using Quick Sync was very close to the existing software-based encoders and much superior to the results you get when using hardware-accelerated encoding using a top-end NVIDIA GPU. I'm fairly certain that they also suggested that the quality and performance of the Quick Sync encoding might improve once the drivers are more fully optimized.

The only profile that would beat H.264 main would be the so-called "high." But frankly, I think you would only use high if you wanted to be absolutely certain that you were getting visually lossless encodings from a source like Blu-ray or maybe a very good DVD (as a form of backup, I guess). Besides, most people are going to be re-encoding for their mobile devices (and maybe the Apple TV) so I suspect that Quick Sync would be fine for those applications. Personally, I do multiple encodes anyway, some for streaming over 3G and others for my Apple TV.

Your points are well taken, however, since we really won't know until a Sandy Bridge MacBook ships with Quick Sync enabled (i.e. Apple will have to supply the drivers, which they may not do in the initial release). It's worth pointing out, however, that even the software-based encoding on Sandy Bridge was twice as fast as on a Core 2 Duo.

skiltrip

Jan 27, 2011, 08:03 PM

In the meantime, the 13" Pro isn't being refreshed. The incoming sources of low stock on the 15" and 17" MBPs are also indicating that the stock isn't low on the 13" and it's pretty consistent. So either it'll merge with the white MacBook or it'll disappear. Leaving whatever the non-Pro "MacBook" is at that point to run Core 2 Duo and the 320M until Ivy Bridge. I'd bet actual money on it at this point.

Maybe the Pro and Whitey will both just get the 2.66 C2D as base and only model and call it a day. Base gets a little speed bump, and they move on. People will still buy 'em. Maybe they'll refresh the 13" later in the year when they go ahead and get C2D out of the Air as well.

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 08:06 PM

Maybe the Pro and Whitey will both just get the 2.66 C2D as base and only model and call it a day. Base gets a little speed bump, and they move on. People will still buy 'em. Maybe they'll refresh the 13" later in the year when they go ahead and get C2D out of the Air as well.

I'd more likely say that Whitey will get a 2.66 Core 2 Duo and the 13" MBP will get the axe. Poor little guy.

skiltrip

Jan 27, 2011, 08:13 PM

I'd more likely say that Whitey will get a 2.66 Core 2 Duo and the 13" MBP will get the axe. Poor little guy.

I do admit the 13" is the Pokey Little Puppy in the Pro lineup. Because of it's size, it'll just never measure up, and is probably a thorn in Apple's backside, because now every refresh they have to have a "WTF are we going to do with the 13" THIS time?" meeting.

However, it's purpose is a very good gateway drug to Macs. I wanted a Mac last year for audio. I needed firewire. I also needed a laptop. So the iMac was out, and the 15" MBP was out because I simply couldn't afford it. And Whitey was out obviously because of no firewire. So the 13" MBP got me hooked.

I'm now planning on buying a 15" this year and am a Mac user for the rest of my forseeable music career. Without that gateway drug I probably would still be cursing and kicking my PCs and just dealing with it.

That's why I think the 13" is important to Apple and will stay, even if it continues to lag behind the 15 and 17 in specs and capability.

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 08:17 PM

I do admit the 13" is the Pokey Little Puppy in the Pro lineup. Because of it's size, it'll just never measure up, and is probably a thorn in Apple's backside, because now every refresh they have to have a "WTF are we going to do with the 13" THIS time?" meeting.

However, it's purpose is a very good gateway drug to Macs. I wanted a Mac last year for audio. I needed firewire. I also needed a laptop. So the iMac was out, and the 15" MBP was out because I simply couldn't afford it. And Whitey was out obviously because of no firewire. So the 13" MBP got me hooked.

I'm now planning on buying a 15" this year and am a Mac user for the rest of my forseeable music career. Without that gateway drug I probably would still be cursing and kicking my PCs and just dealing with it.

That's why I think the 13" is important to Apple and will stay, even if it continues to lag behind the 15 and 17 in specs and capability.

Oh agreed, it was my gateway drug twice (with the 12" PowerBook G4 and with the 13" MacBook Pro), but if the 13" Pro didn't exist, people would flock to the MacBook instead.

ee4life

Jan 27, 2011, 08:19 PM

Three points, those reviews say that the Quick Sync technology supports up to main profile H.264, which is just about all that people will use since that's the top of the spec for the Apple TV and all of the mobile iOS devices (including the iPad). Second, they say that Intel worked very hard to match the encoding quality that was produced when using strictly software-based techniques (that relied on previous generation Intel CPUs). Lastly, they said that the encoding quality when using Quick Sync was very close to the existing software-based encoders and much superior to the results you get when using hardware-accelerated encoding using a top-end NVIDIA GPU. I'm fairly certain that they also suggested that the quality and performance of the Quick Sync encoding might improve once the drivers are more fully optimized.

The only profile that would beat H.264 main would be the so-called "high." But frankly, I think you would only use high if you wanted to be absolutely certain that you were getting visually lossless encodings from a source like Blu-ray or maybe a very good DVD (as a form of backup, I guess). Besides, most people are going to be re-encoding for their mobile devices (and maybe the Apple TV) so I suspect that Quick Sync would be fine for those applications. Personally, I do multiple encodes anyway, some for streaming over 3G and others for my Apple TV.

Your points are well taken, however, since we really won't know until a Sandy Bridge MacBook ships with Quick Sync enabled (i.e. Apple will have to supply the drivers, which they may not do in the initial release). It's worth pointing out, however, that even the software-based encoding on Sandy Bridge was twice as fast as on a Core 2 Duo.

Hmm... I thought that from the iPhone 3GS on up they supported high profile, despite Apple's specs only indicating main profile. I could be wrong though. I did recently receive the new ATV as a gift but haven't had a chance to set it up yet, and I was hoping that my movie collection would play just fine. Little have I suspected that I might try streaming my high profile encodes only to be met with a big fat fail.

And I see your point about quality vs speed as well. I'm still not sold on the quality being comparable to a software solution until I know the quality of the software solution being compared, but that information will come in time. But for the casual encode, QS could potentially be a big time saver when absolute quality is not paramount, especially when paired with a second, higher-quality encode for devices that support it (if SW encoding is in fact that much slower independent of library, doing it twice would be painful even if one of the encodes is faster due to lower quality). My interest in the comparison is mostly academic because I probably won't be upgrading soon anyway.

fpnc

Jan 27, 2011, 08:30 PM

...In the meantime, the 13" Pro isn't being refreshed. The incoming sources of low stock on the 15" and 17" MBPs are also indicating that the stock isn't low on the 13" and it's pretty consistent. So either it'll merge with the white MacBook or it'll disappear. Leaving whatever the non-Pro "MacBook" is at that point to run Core 2 Duo and the 320M until Ivy Bridge. I'd bet actual money on it at this point.
Wow, you have way too much confidence in some random reports about stock levels. That's no proof whatsoever and predicting the demise of the 13" MacBook Pro based only upon that evidence seems pretty weak.
Second, the white MacBook and the 13" MBP are the same computer, save for port differences and enclosure. It makes no sense to give one a new chip and withhold it from the other. If one gets it, then if the other one is still around, it gets it. That's the trend. Get it?
As far as upgrades, the white MacBooks have different refresh cycles than do the MacBook Pros (that's nearly an unbroken "fact") and the MacBook Pros will be the first to be upgraded to Sandy Bridge (you can take that as a certain fact). That's the real trend. Do you get that? :)
I'd bet actual money on it at this point.
Well, that's a little difficult to enforce or setup. However, I've had a really good record of predicting what Apple is going to do in the future going all the way back to and even before Apple's switch from the PowerPC to Intel. During that time I was probably one of the most ardent supporters of those Intel rumors on many different online forums. Back then I was saying that if the rumors were true then it was an absolutely brilliant move by Apple and just prior to the actual announcement I was saying that it was a done deal. Meanwhile, most of the other posts were from people who were saying that if it happened it would be the "end of the world" (for Apple). Similarly, I correctly predicted the introduction of the Mac mini and even its price when a lot of people said "no way" or that it would be the mythical xMac (a cheap, headless Mac with expansion slots). Just recently I was embroiled in a debate about the level of support that AirPlay would have under iOS 4.2, and then again just this last week about how it would function under iOS 4.3 (I won all of those arguments, given the ending facts). I don't mind saying that I have an almost unblemished record over the last four or five years in the threads that I've chosen to participate in.

There was one instance where I came forward and admitted that I had overstated my case. You may remember the debate last year as to why Apple hadn't yet updated the MacBooks to use the Arrandale processor. I came out and said that it was because Arrandale was still in limited production and that very few Arrandale notebooks had actually shipped. Meanwhile, some others said that they knew that even HP had been shipping Arrandale i5 parts for over a month (which proved to be untrue) and that Arrandale systems were actually shipping in quantity since CES 2010 (the latter proved to be somewhat true, which is where I was initially in error). So, after some additional research I came back to MacRumors and admitted to my fellow forum members that Arrandale systems had been available since shortly after CES. Funny thing was, it came out several months after that debate ended that Intel was having supply problems with Arrandale and that some manufactures had actually delayed their introductions because the parts were in such short supply. So, in the end I was kind of vindicated since it appeared that Apple hadn't been dragging their feet at all, it may have just been that Intel was late in delivering parts in large quantities.

The reason I tell this history is to show that I've publicly "owned up" to any errors of fact that I've previously made. Prediction is a little more difficult, since its hard to get everything exactly right (so how "wrong" or "right" is someone when the prediction is only partially true).

So here is a simple agreement, whoever proves to be the most in error about these 13" MacBook Pro and white MacBook updates needs to come back to MacRumors and publicly admit to their errors. Pretty simple, but frankly I don't think I've ever seen anyone do that after I've been proven to be factually correct after a long debate.

These seem to be our differences.

1.) I claim that the 13" MacBook Pro is going to get an update to Sandy Bridge.
2.) I claim that within the next year (or sooner) the optical drives will be removed from the 13" and 15" MacBook Pros and probably even from the 17" model.
3.) You seem to be claiming that the 13" MacBook Pro will be discontinued with the next update and that the white MacBook will essentially take its place (is that correct?).
4.) You claim that the optical drives will remain on the existing lineup for at least the "next couple of refreshes" (your own words).

The first showdown will come with the announcements from Apple of the Sandy Bridge systems. If the 13" MacBook Pro is updated to Sandy Bridge and thus stays in the lineup then I win the first point and the third. Next, if the optical drives are not removed from the MacBook Pros within the next year then you win the second and fourth points.

Of course, this could all end rather quickly if the next refresh on the MacBook Pros includes both an updated 13" MacBook Pro (with Sandy Bridge) and the loss of the internal optical drives. Thus, I'll see you in another month or two (or maybe even sooner).

fpnc

Jan 27, 2011, 08:54 PM

Hmm... I thought that from the iPhone 3GS on up they supported high profile, despite Apple's specs only indicating main profile. I could be wrong though. I did recently receive the new ATV as a gift but haven't had a chance to set it up yet, and I was hoping that my movie collection would play just fine. Little have I suspected that I might try streaming my high profile encodes only to be met with a big fat fail...
High profile might work on the later iOS devices, I'm not sure that I've check that but in any case as you note Apple only claims to support main. iTunes might block high profile from the new Apple TV but it might work on the iPad, iPhone 4, 4th-generation iPod touch, or maybe even the iPhone 3GS if you use a third-party utility to move the movie to said device.

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 09:01 PM

Wow, you have way too much confidence in some random reports about stock levels. That's no proof whatsoever and predicting the demise of the 13" MacBook Pro based only upon that evidence seems pretty weak.

I preface all of my claims based on stock levels with something to the effect of "if these claims mean anything". They may not mean a thing and I'll be first to admit that, thank you very much. Otherwise, I cite previous MacRumors articles, unless you don't take that as valid sources. Also, you have no more "proof" than I do, so take a chill pill. An argument isn't proof.

As far as upgrades, the white MacBooks have different refresh cycles than do the MacBook Pros (that's nearly an unbroken "fact") and the MacBook Pros will be the first to be upgraded to Sandy Bridge (you can take that as a certain fact). That's the real trend. Do you get that? :)

Unbroken fact my overweight ass. Late 2008, they were refreshed at the same time; same as Mid 2009. They were off by a single month this past year, and seeing as it's a one-model show until they change it, there's no reason to assume for sure that they won't coincide. You're calling me out on speculating and being confident in my speculation, when you do nothing but cite how confident you are in yours. Grow up and quit being hypocritical, it's MacRumors.com, no one here knows for sure what's happening, you don't, I don't, so cut the pissing contest out.

Well, that's a little difficult to enforce or setup. However, I've had a really good record of predicting what Apple is going to do in the future going all the way back to and even before Apple's switch from the PowerPC to Intel. During that time I was probably one of the most ardent supporters of those Intel rumors on many different online forums. Back then I was saying that if the rumors were true then it was an absolutely brilliant move by Apple and just prior to the actual announcement I was saying that it was a done deal. Meanwhile, most of the other posts were from people who were saying that if it happened it would be the "end of the world" (for Apple). Similarly, I correctly predicted the introduction of the Mac mini and even its price when a lot of people said "no way" or that it would be the mythical xMac (a cheap, headless Mac with expansion slots). Just recently I was embroiled in a debate about the level of support that AirPlay would have under iOS 4.2, and then again just this last week about how it would function under iOS 4.3 (I won all of those arguments, given the ending facts). I don't mind saying that I have an almost unblemished record over the last four or five years in the threads that I've chosen to participate in.

You want a medal or something?

There was one instance where I came forward and admitted that I had overstated my case. You may remember the debate last year as to why Apple hadn't yet updated the MacBooks to use the Arrandale processor. I came out and said that it was because Arrandale was still in limited production and that very few Arrandale notebooks had actually shipped. Meanwhile, some others said that they knew that even HP had been shipping Arrandale i5 parts for over a month (which proved to be untrue) and that Arrandale systems were actually shipping in quantity since CES 2010 (the latter proved to be somewhat true, which is where I was initially in error). So, after some additional research I came back to MacRumors and admitted to my fellow forum members that Arrandale systems had been available since shortly after CES. Funny thing was, it came out several months after that debate ended that Intel was having supply problems with Arrandale and that some manufactures had actually delayed their introductions because the parts were in such short supply. So, in the end I was kind of vindicated since it appeared that Apple hadn't been dragging their feet at all, it may have just been that Intel was late in delivering parts in large quantities.

I don't follow your posting history, nor the history of threads here. I have marginally better things to do with my life than waste that kind of time.

The reason I tell this history is to show that I've publicly "owned up" to any errors of fact that I've previously made. Prediction is a little more difficult, since its hard to get everything exactly right (so how "wrong" or "right" is someone when the prediction is only partially true).

That's nice. Thanks for giving me the Forums 101 lesson. I really appreciate it and I won't leave the website thinking "Man, what a total tool".

So here is a simple agreement, whoever proves to be the most in error about these 13" MacBook Pro and white MacBook updates needs to come back to MacRumors and publicly admit to their errors. Pretty simple, but frankly I don't think I've ever seen anyone do that after I've been proven to be factually correct after a long debate.

My first comment on the thread where the MacRumors bot posts the article would either be "Soooo called it" or "I guess I was wrong" or "Interesting". Not because I keep getting into arguments with people like you and not because you're calling me out to. Frankly, I feel like being more of a jerk to repay you in kind. I mean who died and crowned you my debate partner?!

These seem to be our differences.

1.) I claim that the 13" MacBook Pro is going to get an update to Sandy Bridge.
2.) I claim that within the next year (or sooner) the optical drives will be removed from the 13" and 15" MacBook Pros and probably even from the 17" model.
3.) You seem to be claiming that the 13" MacBook Pro will be discontinued with the next update and that the white MacBook will essentially take its place (is that correct?).
4.) You claim that the optical drives will remain on the existing lineup for at least the "next couple of refreshes" (your own words).

The first showdown

What is this, elementary school? Is lunch money at stake?

The first showdown will come with the announcements from Apple of the Sandy Bridge systems. If the 13" MacBook Pro is updated to Sandy Bridge and thus stays in the lineup then I win the first point and the third. Next, if the optical drives are not removed from the MacBook Pros within the next year then you win the second and fourth points.

Of course, this could all end rather quickly if the next refresh on the MacBook Pros includes both an updated 13" MacBook Pro (with Sandy Bridge) and the loss of the internal optical drives. Thus, I'll see you in another month or two (or maybe even sooner).

Barring your childish bravado, my prediction was that the 13" MacBook Pro is either not being refreshed with the rest of them but sticking around (happened in 2005 with the PowerBook G4 line, if you can recall) un-updated until either the white MacBook refresh or taken out altogether. The former is probably more likely, though I wouldn't be surprised if either happened. As for the optical drive removal, I severely doubt we'll see it, you don't. I'm going to just leave it at that before I am compelled to hunt down my Spider-Man halloween costume from third grade in preparation for your epic "showdown".

profoshow

Jan 27, 2011, 09:17 PM

If no leaked pics come about... is that a good indication that the same design will continue being used? :rolleyes:

skiltrip

Jan 27, 2011, 09:21 PM

Oh agreed, it was my gateway drug twice (with the 12" PowerBook G4 and with the 13" MacBook Pro), but if the 13" Pro didn't exist, people would flock to the MacBook instead.

I'm sure I'm in somewhat of the minority, but I wouldn't have bothered with the MacBook, as it had no FireWire. I would have bought nothing. The 13" is a great laptop for at-home music studios. The size makes it ideal, and it's got everything you need. The MacBook is short on features (firewire mostly), and the 15" and 17" are too pricey (for most).

Joshknightmare

Jan 27, 2011, 09:31 PM

I'm going to predict:

- MacBook white discontinued
- MacBook Air becomes the standard MacBook

Who are you, Noah?
The Airs are way too expensive for students planning to buy the 1000$ MB.

profoshow

Jan 27, 2011, 09:31 PM

this may have been metioned or i may have over looked it, but i don't see the
17" i7 mbp for sell on the apple site anymore...

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 09:32 PM

I'm sure I'm in somewhat of the minority, but I wouldn't have bothered with the MacBook, as it had no FireWire. I would have bought nothing. The 13" is a great laptop for at-home music studios. The size makes it ideal, and it's got everything you need. The MacBook is short on features (firewire mostly), and the 15" and 17" are too pricey (for most).

I hear you on that and completely agree. A Mac without FireWire just isn't right. This is why the 13" Pro is the minimum Mac laptop that I'd ever consider owning. Though after trying to convince so many people that FireWire is rad, I got tired trying to explain to most of them what it even is. Most people don't even know what it is.

this may have been metioned or i may have over looked it, but i don't see the
17" i7 mbp for sell on the apple site anymore...

It has always been a configure to order (CTO) option on the 17" model.

skiltrip

Jan 27, 2011, 09:39 PM

this may have been metioned or i may have over looked it, but i don't see the
17" i7 mbp for sell on the apple site anymore...

You can order it still. Nothing has changed. I'm looking at it right now.
The i7 17" ships in 1-3 business days.

BetaPro

Jan 27, 2011, 09:43 PM

If no leaked pics come about... is that a good indication that the same design will continue being used? :rolleyes:

wondering the same.

profoshow

Jan 27, 2011, 09:43 PM

my bad... maybe getting a bit anxious :D

New mbp needs to hurry up and get here so that i can get some work done.... at work :)

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 09:46 PM

my bad... maybe getting a bit anxious :D

No worries man, I think we all are. I'm definitely buying a 15" MBP this next refresh, though I probably won't be buying until Lion's release this summer. Still exciting to track news on my future laptop though.

profoshow

Jan 27, 2011, 09:51 PM

yeah, i have been waiting a long long time for my first mac...i have the money so as soon as the refresh is available i will have one headed my way.

iMacrumors

Jan 27, 2011, 10:00 PM

yeah, i have been waiting a long long time for my first mac...i have the money so as soon as the refresh is available i will have one headed my way.

Ditto. Been waiting since end of November... SICK OF THIS PC!

profoshow

Jan 27, 2011, 10:03 PM

I have a dell latitude that was bought by my work, for work and school purposes, and it has been nothing but a pain in my butt!!! they paid $1300 for and it is terrible!

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 10:06 PM

profoshow

Jan 27, 2011, 10:08 PM

HAHA.. thanks, hopefully it wont be too much longer before i am grazing in that green pasture :rolleyes:

AidenShaw

Jan 27, 2011, 10:09 PM

Do you think they would change the design of the Macbook pro this time around? The current design is amazing, but im starting to feel that it looks slightly outdated.

The MacBook Pro design has been boring and outdated since the PowerBook G4 (DVI) replaced the original PowerBook G4 in 2002.

I just want to be cool and finally own a MacBook.

If you think that owning a MacBook will make you "cool", you'll never be cool.

iTunes might block high profile from the new Apple TV but it might work on the iPad, iPhone 4, 4th-generation iPod touch, or maybe even the iPhone 3GS if you use a third-party utility to move the movie to said device.

So much for "it just works"....

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 10:27 PM

HAHA.. thanks, hopefully it wont be too much longer before i am grazing in that green pasture :rolleyes:

It won't be. It'll come before you know it.

cmaier

Jan 27, 2011, 10:39 PM

The MacBook Pro design has been boring and outdated since the PowerBook G4 (DVI) replaced the original PowerBook G4 in 2002.

I like it.

If you think that owning a MacBook will make you "cool", you'll never be cool.

Damn. Now I'll have to start smoking.

AidenShaw

Jan 27, 2011, 10:57 PM

Damn. Now I'll have to start smoking.

Don't bogart that joint....

fpnc

Jan 27, 2011, 11:00 PM

...Grow up and quit being hypocritical...so cut the pissing contest...want a medal or something?...I have marginally better things to do with my life than waste that kind of time...What is this, elementary school? Is lunch money at stake?...Barring your childish bravado...I'm going to just leave it at that before I am compelled to hunt down my Spider-Man halloween costume from third grade in preparation for your epic "showdown".
Can we just skip the name calling? It's a little bit difficult to tell based upon the amount of incendiary talk you've included in your response as to whether you're willing to stick to you original claim that the 13" MacBook Pro is going to be discontinued (it seems that you are, kinda, with a few reservations). In any case, it seems pretty clear about the optical drive, I say it will be gone within a year and you say not.
Second, the white MacBook and the 13" MBP are the same computer, save for port differences and enclosure. It makes no sense to give one a new chip and withhold it from the other. If one gets it, then if the other one is still around, it gets it. That's the trend. Get it?...
As far as upgrades, the white MacBooks have different refresh cycles than do the MacBook Pros (that's nearly an unbroken "fact") and the MacBook Pros will be the first to be upgraded to Sandy Bridge (you can take that as a certain fact). That's the real trend. Do you get that? :)
Unbroken fact my overweight ass. Late 2008, they were refreshed at the same time; same as Mid 2009. They were off by a single month this past year, and seeing as it's a one-model show until they change it, there's no reason to assume for sure that they won't coincide. You're calling me out on speculating and being confident in my speculation, when you do nothing but cite how confident you are in yours...
I said, "nearly an unbroken "fact"," but if you like here are the last ten update cycles on the MacBooks (taken from the MacRumor's buying guide):

MacBook:
5/2010
10/2009
5/2009
10/2008 (Apple introduces the unibody 13" MacBook)
2/2008
11/2007
5/2007
11/2006
5/2006
7/2005

MacBook Pro:
4/2010
6/2009
10/2008 (Apple introduces the first unibody MacBook Pros)
2/2008
6/2007
10/2006
4/2006
1/2006
10/2005
1/2005

This covers over five years of product updates and there have only been two times when the MacBook and the MacBook Pros have been updated at exactly the same time (and one of those times, Oct. 2008, was when Apple introduced the unibody enclosure for both the MacBook Pro and the former, non-pro 13" unibody MacBook). I'll admit that it's a complicated mix, since in some instances there have been significant architectural upgrades while at other times there were only minor tweaks (price change, bigger hard drives, small speed bumps, etc.).

In any case, what should have been clear in my original post is that when there is a fairly major architectural change like going from the Arrandale to the Sandy Bridge CPU the MacBook Pros will get the update before the low-end products like the white MacBook or even the Mac mini (I even stated that as a "certain fact" and that should have been seen as different from my statement of "a nearly unbroken "fact"" (and note the quotes around "fact" in that statement, when I posted I did that for a reason). Actually, if I took you literally when you proposed a "trend" I would have to expect that the white MacBook is going to get an update to Sandy Bridge at exactly the same time as the MacBook Pros, and that the white MacBook will get the Sandy Bridge CPU before the 13" MacBook Pro (being that if the 13" MacBook Pro gets Sandy Bridge it obviously won't be discontinued for at least another year or more which would violate your theory that the white MacBook is going to soon replace the 13" MacBook Pro).

Okay, so we both are spending too much time posting to this tread. Wouldn't it be funny if on the next refresh Apple keeps on using Arrandale and we don't see any significant changes in the lineup until 2012 when Ivy Bridge ships? Now that would be a major disappointment.

Yebubbleman

Jan 27, 2011, 11:10 PM

Don't bogart that joint....

Don't bogart that joke... :p

fpnc

Jan 27, 2011, 11:50 PM

Okay, Mr. Yebubbleman, I think I can see one thing that is causing our misunderstanding (for lack of a better name). You seem to be of the belief that the 13" MacBook Pro will always have the same CPU and graphics as the white MacBook. That's obviously been true for some time now (since June 2009) with the rebranding of what essentially was the original unibody MacBook. However, I'm of the belief that with Sandy Bridge Apple can finally upgrade the CPU in the 13" MacBook Pro to bring it more inline with the remainder of the MacBook Pro lineup. Your outcome is different though, you expect the 13" MacBook Pro to be discontinued largely because it will always be too close in specs to the white MacBook.

Of course, this "misunderstanding" doesn't change any of our forecasts, since the outcomes will clearly be different.

My world:
White MacBook and MacBook Airs continue with the Core 2 Duo and NVIDIA integrated graphics.
Entire lineup of MacBook Pros move to Sandy Bridge.
I would also add that with this lineup the white MacBook will effectively be marked for discontinuation and the MacBook Airs will take over the low-end price points. The white MacBook will stay, however, for the most price sensitive buyers who need a relatively standard notebook configuration and for the K-12 education markets (I've always claimed the latter).

Your world (forgive my assumptions if wrong):
White MacBook and MacBook Airs continue with the Core 2 Duo and NVIDIA integrated graphics.
13" MacBook Pro stays with the Core 2 Duo and NVIDIA integrated graphics (and soon to be discontinued because of that).
15" and 17" MacBook Pros move to Sandy Bridge (maybe, I guess, do you expect this?).

However, if you are right about the 13" MacBook Pro then I'd say the following is just as likely of an outcome:
For spring 2011, there is NO change in the CPU architectures in any of the MacBooks, Apple skips Sandy Bridge and we'll all have to wait for Ivy Bridge. If this happens, as I've said before, I think nearly everyone will be disappointed in this year's MacBooks (except for perhaps the MacBook Airs).

josh8711

Jan 27, 2011, 11:51 PM

There you go. :p

hahaha, perfect. That guy should have looked at the buyer's guide lol

macaroo2

Jan 28, 2011, 12:08 AM

blue22

Jan 28, 2011, 12:42 AM

However, if you are right about the 13" MacBook Pro then I'd say the following is just as likely of an outcome:
For spring 2011, there is NO change in the CPU architectures in any of the MacBooks, Apple skips Sandy Bridge and we'll all have to wait for Ivy Bridge. If this happens, as I've said before, I think nearly everyone will be disappointed in this year's MacBooks (except for perhaps the MacBook Airs).

That's a ridiculous prediction, but even more so if you're including the MBP into it. No way Apple is going to force consumers to wait until late 2011 to get their hands on the 2nd gen i-Core Intel chipsets.

Yebubbleman

Jan 28, 2011, 12:55 AM

That's a ridiculous prediction, but even more so if you're including the MBP into it. No way Apple is going to force consumers to wait until late 2011 to get their hands on the 2nd gen i-Core Intel chipsets.

They would if it was a Mac mini, white MacBook, or MacBook Air. They wouldn't if it was a 13" Pro. But I don't think they'll put it into that machine either,

macaroo2

Jan 28, 2011, 12:57 AM

Wow, the back and forth between fpnc and Yebubbleman is interesting.

My take:
This upcoming refresh will only be for the MBPs. Yes, White will be left in the wilderness. It will be Sandy Bridge. Optical drives will be standard but Apple will make it possible to replace that with something else as an option.

I can see Apple doing this to study customer buying preferences for the MBPs and Air. Then mid 2011 White gets a refresh. More Apple studies.

At this point what I say is the best guess on my part. 2012 MBP or White 13" gets the axe. I say MBP 13" as the MBP and Air lines start to share design and specs.

On another note, did Apple break down sales of laptops by models in the most recent earnings call?

fpnc

Jan 28, 2011, 01:27 AM

That's a ridiculous prediction, but even more so if you're including the MBP into it. No way Apple is going to force consumers to wait until late 2011 to get their hands on the 2nd gen i-Core Intel chipsets.
Ridiculous? I don't know. Unlikely, perhaps. Unfortunate, very definitely.

Problem is, I can't see Apple moving only the 15" and 17" models to Sandy Bridge while leaving the 13" models stuck for another year (or whenever) with the Core 2 Duos. Frankly, there should be enough room within the 13" form factor and enough price flexibility between the $999 white MacBook and 11" MacBook Air and the low-end(?) $1799 15" MacBook Pro to offer a 13" MacBook Pro model with the Sandy Bridge CPU. Up until now the only reason (I believe) that this gap has existed is that Intel's IGP in Arrandale was just too weak to displace NVIDIAs chipset. Now it appears that with the additional performance boosts offered by Sandy Bridge Apple may be able to forego the NVIDIA chipset without looking too ridiculous with Intel's IGP. Sandy Bridge should offer such a significant performance boost over the Core 2 Duo that practically no one will regret or question such a processor change on the next generation 13" MacBook Pro (if it happens, which it may not).

Of course, in an ideal world (for me) I'd like Apple to just drop the internal optical drive from the next MacBook Pros and use that space and cost savings to improve the entire line in other ways. Certainly if they did that on the 13" MacBook Pro that could virtually guarantee that Sandy Bridge could be used in that form factor (with an accompanying small increase in price on the base model).

Beyond this, my dream configurations for the MacBook Pros would include the following (if the form factor drops the optical drive to allow these additional features):

Discrete graphics processor for the 13" MacBook Pro (nothing really killer here, just something notably faster that Intel's IGP).
Larger battery for even greater runtime or if not longer runtime then equivalent runtime given Sandy Bridge and possible GPU upgrades (for all configurations).
Dual drive option on the 15" and 17" MacBook Pros (one SSD, possibly a blade, and one large-capacity HD).
More ports on the 13" and 15" models (parity with the 17" MacBook Pro).

I don't expect all of the above (like I said, it's my dream upgrade), but I 100% agree that it would sure be nice to get Sandy Bridge early this year rather than waiting for Ivy Bridge in 2012.

Leshita

Jan 28, 2011, 02:10 AM

They don't get meatier than Sandy Bridge. Though I wouldn't hold my breath on the 13" Pro, if I were you.

Is that discount more, the same, or less than the standard academic discount?

I am waiting for an update to the 15" Pros actually. The Student ADC discount is more than the standard academic discount for the more high end units (ie. MBP and Mac Pro) and is worth it if you are getting those items only (you need to pay $100 to get the membership). I recall Apple revamping and/or discontinuing the Student ADC memberships though so I am not sure if they are still offered.

Forkaster

Jan 28, 2011, 03:42 AM

Okay - really gotta pull the trigger soon and say bye to my early 2006 1.83Ghz CD.

I feel your pain. I am upgrading on the next refresh too.

Filipek

Jan 28, 2011, 03:46 AM

Finally somebody who shows some arguments of why Yebubbleman will be wrong, because in several threads I have read, the only thing Yebubbleman is stating in his posts is the fact that the Macbook Pro 13" will be discontinued, with no convincing arguments at all... The fact that you repeat something over and over again in numerous threads, doesn't mean you are right.
Mr Know It All is shown his place and immediately he goes in defence with ad hominem arguments because somebody touches his ego.

Therefore I agree with fpnc and think the 13" MBP will definitely stay, hopefuly with the best upgrade possible, not just some minor changes.

JonLa

Jan 28, 2011, 05:54 AM

Therefore I agree with fpnc and think the 13" MBP will definitely stay, hopefuly with the best upgrade possible, not just some minor changes.

The real issue is that the current 15 and 17 could take Sandy Bridge and its integrated graphics and keep their second graphics card. The 13 can't take the Intel core series (which have to have an integrated graphics card) and a second graphics card. So the 13 will either have to have Intel integrated graphics (not really acceptable to the Professional community as they are widely considered to be weak) or a complete redesign to create space for the 2-card solution.

So the question becomes - is it a refresh of the current model, in which case 15 and 17 can go Sandy Bridge, but the 13 would have to be handicapped, or is it a complete redesign. A complete redesign would probably warrant some kind of big Apple event? What's on the horizon?

Can't see them reducing the price of the Air three months down the line, by the way.

AidenShaw

Jan 28, 2011, 07:41 AM

The 13 can't take the Intel core series (which have to have an integrated graphics card) and a second graphics card.

People make this claim as if it were a fact.

Only the Apple motherboard engineers know whether it's possible to include a separate graphics chip (not "card") on the board.

Parts get smaller, more integrated (so you need fewer of them), a port could be removed or moved, the battery could be made slightly smaller (since Sandy Bridge can use less power, this wouldn't necessarily reduce battery life).

Apple's engineers may surprise you.

fpnc

Jan 28, 2011, 07:49 AM

The real issue is that the current 15 and 17 could take Sandy Bridge and its integrated graphics and keep their second graphics card. The 13 can't take the Intel core series (which have to have an integrated graphics card) and a second graphics card. So the 13 will either have to have Intel integrated graphics (not really acceptable to the Professional community as they are widely considered to be weak) or a complete redesign to create space for the 2-card solution.

So the question becomes - is it a refresh of the current model, in which case 15 and 17 can go Sandy Bridge, but the 13 would have to be handicapped, or is it a complete redesign. A complete redesign would probably warrant some kind of big Apple event? What's on the horizon?

Can't see them reducing the price of the Air three months down the line, by the way.
As a general rule of thumb, I usually give Apple at least two years between each major redesign on their prosumer systems. The interesting thing is that the 15" unibody MacBook Pro and the unibody MacBook were both released in Oct. 2008 which means that both have now been on the market for just over two years (just a bit over two years and two months to be exact). In the period between these major updates Apple usually brings spec and CPU/GPU upgrades, which since switching to Intel works out fairly well as Intel is on a so-called tick-tock upgrade cycle that generally runs about one year for each tick or tock ( http://www.intel.com/technology/tick-tock/index.htm ). So, Apple does a major revision about every two years (architecture and/or form factor) and then gets a significant bump in the CPU right in the middle of that two year cycle. What this means is that the unibody products might be set to have a major redesign in the next few months. And guess what, that fits right in with the next major "tock" on Intel's CPU architecture roadmap (Sandy Bridge).

Given all of the above, I think it's quite possible that the unibody products are going to see a major revision with their next release. I can also find no good reason for this not to affect the current 13" MacBook Pro, Sandy Bridge is good enough to finally displace NVIDIA's chipsets from that product and besides the recent system chipset settlement between Intel and NVIDIA has pretty much forced NVIDIA out of the chipset business (at least on the non-Atom, X86 systems).

The MacBook Airs have just had a major form-factor redesigned so they are currently out of cycle (so to speak). This leaves only the white MacBook and it really can't move to Sandy Bridge just yet because that has to happen first on the MacBook Pros (and the move to Sandy Bridge from the Core 2 Duo would represent a major redesign for the white MacBook).

Of course, this two year cycle isn't fixed in stone, but the only other significant CPU event that is going to happen relatively soon is Ivy Bridge (probably early 2012) and that could mean that Apple would wait another year before they redesign the unibody products (although they could do the redesign mid-cycle, let's say late summer 2011).

In any case, while the above might appear to be a reasonable analysis of the coming updates it doesn't mean that Apple will do exactly this. They may do a mid-cycle redesign or there may be some other issue that will keep them from doing a major rework on the 13" MacBook Pro. I'll have to admit, I've really being waiting quite impatiently for a redesign on the unibody MacBook Pros. If the 13" gets a Sandy Bridge CPU and the price does not skyrocket then I'm fairly certain that it will be my next Mac purchase.

thecharlesmoore

Jan 28, 2011, 08:02 AM

I personally think they are going to discontinue the 13" MBP to focus more on the "Pro" side of their MacBooks. Next year, the 13" MBA should have better specs than the current 13" MBP.

fpnc

Jan 28, 2011, 08:03 AM

People make this claim as if it were a fact.

Only the Apple motherboard engineers know whether it's possible to include a separate graphics chip (not "card") on the board.

Parts get smaller, more integrated (so you need fewer of them), a port could be removed or moved, the battery could be made slightly smaller (since Sandy Bridge can use less power, this wouldn't necessarily reduce battery life).

Apple's engineers may surprise you.
I agree 100%. In fact other manufactures have managed discrete graphics in systems similar to the 13" MacBook Pro's form factor. Of course, you're not going to find many systems (or any systems) that are an exact duplicate to either of Apple's full-featured 13" MacBooks. Once you figure in Apple's profit margins and some of the Mac's unique features it's hard to make direct comparisons to determine what may or may not be possible.

greenmeanie

Jan 28, 2011, 08:26 AM

MBP 13" isn't going anywhere it is their best seller in laptop land.

JonLa

Jan 28, 2011, 08:36 AM

People make this claim as if it were a fact.

Only the Apple motherboard engineers know whether it's possible to include a separate graphics chip (not "card") on the board.

Parts get smaller, more integrated (so you need fewer of them), a port could be removed or moved, the battery could be made slightly smaller (since Sandy Bridge can use less power, this wouldn't necessarily reduce battery life).

Apple's engineers may surprise you.

Of course, and what I was trying to say was that if it's just an unannounced bump, with new processors dropped into the existing architecture, a refresh, the 13 probably won't get anything.

I can't see such a major event just being dropped into the store one day, so how far in advance will we hear of an Apple event?

iamnotanumber

Jan 28, 2011, 09:01 AM

DSGi UK (Currys & PC World) update: down to 193 mbp 13" in central warehouses. This number was 300+ yesterday. Most likely those were shipped to stores.

altecXP

Jan 28, 2011, 09:30 AM

DSGi UK (Currys & PC World) update: down to 193 mbp 13" in central warehouses. This number was 300+ yesterday. Most likely those were shipped to stores.

I'm interested in how the MacBook and 15/17in stock.

alent1234

Jan 28, 2011, 09:44 AM

altecXP

Jan 28, 2011, 09:45 AM

does apple really have motherboard engineers? i thought the boards were made by foxconn or nvidia.

Apple designes the layout, and then Foxconn builds them to spec.

alent1234

Jan 28, 2011, 09:45 AM

iamnotanumber

Jan 28, 2011, 09:53 AM

I'm interested in how the MacBook and 15/17in stock.

The Macbook is down to 2 in central warehouse at the moment.

As I mentioned yesterday 15" and 17" is very low too, I will try to get you the exact number today, but you should find yourself unable to order the 17" from currys.co.uk (Last time I checked it re directed you to another model)

Jdstew1234

Jan 28, 2011, 10:46 AM

Maybe a refresh february 2

devilcm3

Jan 28, 2011, 10:59 AM

Maybe a refresh february 2

my guess is that apple is up to something when they underwent the maintenance couple days ago , more than just a revamped looks .
i believe they have a reason for that :rolleyes:

but 2 february ?

ciTiger

Jan 28, 2011, 11:15 AM

The sooner it comes the better!

Maybe it's even possible another refresh before the year ends AH!:D

Jdstew1234

Jan 28, 2011, 11:24 AM

my guess is that apple is up to something when they underwent the maintenance couple days ago , more than just a revamped looks .
i believe they have a reason for that :rolleyes:

but 2 february ?

To coincide with macworld and the release of the new iPad news app

Yebubbleman

Jan 28, 2011, 01:09 PM

Wow, the back and forth between fpnc and Yebubbleman is interesting.

Annoying more like it, I'm completely down to just say that we have a difference in opinion and move on. But now I'm obligated to match my "ego" against his...? I mean really, I don't care if I'm right or wrong. I have my reasons for predicting what I'm predicting and I admit that I could very well be wrong. None of us work for Apple beyond the retail level so none of us know for sure.

Frankly, there should be enough room within the 13" form factor and enough price flexibility between the $999 white MacBook and 11" MacBook Air and the low-end(?) $1799 15" MacBook Pro to offer a 13" MacBook Pro model with the Sandy Bridge CPU. Up until now the only reason (I believe) that this gap has existed is that Intel's IGP in Arrandale was just too weak to displace NVIDIAs chipset.

The IGP in Sandy Bridge is bearly at the point where it too is too weak to displace the 320M.

Finally somebody who shows some arguments of why Yebubbleman will be wrong, because in several threads I have read, the only thing Yebubbleman is stating in his posts is the fact that the Macbook Pro 13" will be discontinued, with no convincing arguments at all... The fact that you repeat something over and over again in numerous threads, doesn't mean you are right.
Mr Know It All is shown his place and immediately he goes in defence with ad hominem arguments because somebody touches his ego.

Therefore I agree with fpnc and think the 13" MBP will definitely stay, hopefuly with the best upgrade possible, not just some minor changes.

You know what's worse than someone with an ego problem? Someone who passively aggressively goes out of their way to insult someone else. Of course, it's the Internet and I don't really care a whole lot, I'm just sayin'. As for the arguments that I've (and you are right about this) stated over and over is that:

(a) Apple is faced once again with the choice of inferior graphics and better processor or inferior processor and better graphics. It's a lose-lose situation.

(b) They aren't nixing the optical drive in it as there really are enough people who still rely on it who'd rather not deal with the inconvenience of the external SuperDrive. They aren't nixing the 2.5" Bay, because the blade SSDs are still pricy and not terribly capacious.

(c) The problem noted in (a) isn't anywhere near as big of an issue with white MacBook, the MacBook Air, or the Mac mini; those customers would be fine with a GPU downgrade, or another round of Core 2 Duo as (a vast majority of) those customers don't know or even care about what those features even are. Though it is for the 13" Pro, which for half of its customer base, is used professionally to do things that are also done on higher-end machines like the 15" Pro.

(d) There are too many 13" computers in Apple's line-up. The 13" MacBook serves the education market and is the cheapest full-featured portable Mac. The 13" Air is their only full-sized ultraportable. The 13" Pro doesn't have anything to its name other than it's the only 13" laptop with FireWire port. Most consumers don't even know what that is!

(e) Before someone gives the "but it's their best selling model!" argument, which holds as much weight as you say my argument does, know that before the 13" Pro, that was the white MacBook, and before that it was the 17" Pro. It's not like those customers are going to go anywhere. They're still, more likely than not, to buy one of the other Macs.

(f) Given (a), (b), and (c), Apple is going to have a harder time selling the 13" Pro to the half of its customer base that didn't buy it because it looked prettiest, than it would if it simply kept the same machine but dropped the Pro branding or merged its featureset with the white MacBook to brand "The new MacBook".

Now, I have no insider information. I've followed Apple on this site for over seven years, but I claim to no nothing other than what they've done in the past. It's purely speculation; I could very well be wrong. I won't shoot down opposing ideas unless they themselves don't supply the logic to back it up and have that make sense given Apple's stances on technology and current decisions. I'm sorry you don't agree.

fpnc

Jan 28, 2011, 02:41 PM

last year's i Core had a separate IGP. the new models it's all integrated on the same CPU die. shouldn't be an issue going forward
I'm not certain what you mean with that comment. The Arrandale processor has the CPU and GPU in a single package so for all intents and purposes the IGP isn't "separate" as far as the motherboard design. The change you speak of ("integrated in the CPU die") is true for Sandy Bridge, but that doesn't make much difference as far as the external component count or board space needed in the design, both the Arradale and Sandy Bridge are considered to be "two chip" solutions (i.e. 1-CPU/GPU and 2-external Intel system chip for i/o and some other functions).

Given the above, there is a further clarification that probably should be made on the redesign cycle that I proposed for the unibody MacBooks. The current 15" and 17" MacBooks have already made the "jump" to Intel's CPU/GPU and system chip architecture (via Arrandale), however, the 13" MacBook Pro has not (it's still using NVIDIA's system chip paired with the now fairly ancient Core 2 Duo). This means that any change to Sandy Bridge will represent a larger architecture change for the 13" than it will for the current 15"/17" MacBooks (which have been Arrandale-base since spring of last year). Thus, the only way that the 15"/17" MacBooks could get a major redesign that would fit the product cycles that I proposed would be if there was a significant change in the industrial design (or form factor) on those products. Of course, that may not happen this spring (as I suggested in my last post).

In a sense, the change to Sandy Bridge is a relatively easy thing for the 15"/17" MacBooks, that's not true for the 13" MacBook Pro which would have to undergo a complete motherboard redesign to use Sandy Bridge. I'm just hoping that Apple has used the last two years to redesign the 13" MacBook Pro architecture and it would also be kind of nice if they did the same to the now two-year-old unibody form factor. If this happens, it will mean a totally new 13" MacBook Pro while the 15"/17" might just get a change in the industrial design (along with the upgraded Sandy Bridge CPU, which isn't a minor or insignificant thing in itself as features go).

Yebubbleman

Jan 28, 2011, 02:43 PM

I'm not certain what you mean with that comment. The Arrandale processor has the CPU and GPU in a single package so for all intents and purposes the IGP isn't "separate" as far as the motherboard design. The change you speak of ("integrated in the CPU die") is true for Sandy Bridge, but that doesn't make much difference as far as the external component count or board space needed in the design, both the Arradale and Sandy Bridge are considered to be "two chip" solutions (i.e. 1-CPU/GPU and 2-external Intel system chip for i/o and some other functions).

Given the above, there is a further clarification that probably should be made on the redesign cycle that I proposed for the unibody MacBooks. The current 15" and 17" MacBooks have already made the "jump" to Intel's CPU/GPU and system chip architecture (via Arrandale), however, the 13" MacBook Pro has not (it's still using NVIDIA's system chip paired with the now fairly ancient Core 2 Duo). This means that any change to Sandy Bridge will represent a larger architecture change for the 13" than it will for the current 15"/17" MacBooks (which have been Arrandale-base since spring of last year). Thus, the only way that the 15"/17" MacBooks could get a major redesign that would fit the product cycles that I proposed would be if there was a significant change in the industrial design (or form factor) on those products. Of course, that may not happen this spring (as I suggested in my last post).

In a sense, the change to Sandy Bridge is a relatively easy thing for the 15"/17" MacBooks, that's not true for the 13" MacBook Pro which would have to undergo a complete motherboard redesign to use Sandy Bridge. I'm just hoping that Apple has used the last two years to redesign the 13" MacBook Pro architecture and it would also be kind of nice if they did the same to the now two-year-old unibody form factor. If this happens, it will mean a totally new 13" MacBook Pro while the 15"/17" might just get a change in the industrial design (along with the upgraded Sandy Bridge CPU, which isn't a minor or insignificant thing in itself).

Arrandale had two dies on the CPU, one for CPU, the other for GPU. He's saying that with Sandy Bridge, it'll all be on the same die.

eddyd2210

Jan 28, 2011, 03:04 PM

alent1234

Jan 28, 2011, 03:12 PM

Arrandale had two dies on the CPU, one for CPU, the other for GPU. He's saying that with Sandy Bridge, it'll all be on the same die.

yes, it's now one physical piece of silicon instead of just two chips in the same piece of plastic

next year this chip is going to be introduced in a 22nm transistor chip. and 2013 is another new architecture

Yebubbleman

Jan 28, 2011, 03:26 PM

I totally agree that the 13" 'pro' core 2 duo doesn't really justify it as a pro. having the same insides as the entry level white macbook is a little bit of an isult to the pro line IMO. apple has gotten away with it last refresh (2010) but i don't they can play the 'we had no option, we decided to go with better graphics' card again.

I am new to this so please tell me if i am doing anything wrong or out of line...

You don't seem to be out of line. And for what it's worth, I agree.

yes, it's now one physical piece of silicon instead of just two chips in the same piece of plastic

next year this chip is going to be introduced in a 22nm transistor chip. and 2013 is another new architecture

And so it goes...

dennisuello

Jan 28, 2011, 04:01 PM

definitely good news. i just sold my late 2007 C2D 15" MBP, and was going to wait till April, but sooner the better.

Funkymonk

Jan 28, 2011, 04:19 PM

fpnc

Jan 28, 2011, 04:29 PM

yes, it's now one physical piece of silicon instead of just two chips in the same piece of plastic...
The issue I was trying to address is that from a motherboard design point of view there is no practical difference between the Sandy Bridge and Arrandale parts. It's not really correct to contrast the Arrandale as having a "separate IGP" in comparison to Sandy Bridge because from a high-level design or external point of view they are nearly the same (other than the internal improvements, part of which includes the fact that in Sandy Bridge the CPU and IGP/GPU happen to now be on the same physical die and both are now manufactured with the same 32nm process). The response you originally gave was to a post from JonLa that seemed to suggest that in order to make the 13" MacBook Pro competitive it still needed another chip -- a discrete GPU -- which some would agree with and which was the point that s/he (JonLa) seemed to be making. However, you responded with:
last year's i Core had a separate IGP. the new models it's all integrated on the same CPU die. shouldn't be an issue going forward
My confusion (and possibly to others including JonLa) is what do you mean by "shouldn't be an issue going forward"? JonLa was completely correct in everything s/he said, so what issue does Sandy Bridge solve for JonLa that wasn't present with Arrandale (other than the fact that Sandy Bridge has better performance). It's certainly not simply the fact that the Sandy Bridge package now has one die (internally) instead of the two that were mounted together in the Arrandale package. What I mean is, Arrandale one CPU/IGP package, Sandy Bridge one CPU/IGP package, so where is the difference that would make it easier to redesign the 13" MacBook Pro? If only performance, then that's already been detailed in many other posts, and you didn't seem to be directly suggesting that in your original response to JonLa.

In any case, yes, my original response clearly noted that Sandy Bridge's CPU/IGP were now on a single die and that's different than with Arrandale (so now, you, I, and Yebubbleman have said the exact same thing about the internal structure within the Sandy Bridge package).

fpnc

Jan 28, 2011, 04:42 PM

anyone know how many c2d chips apple bought from intel so we know how long the plan to keep c2d in their machines? Air and the white macbook still use it but for how long. What if they upgrade absolutely everything to sandy bridge. That would be awesome!
The MacBook Airs will eventually be redesigned to get a faster chip, but the Airs just recently had a major redesign that is still using the Core 2 Duo and NVIDIA's system/IGP chip. I don't think Apple would have gone to the effort to redesign the MacBook Airs only to do a completely different motherboard and chip set only a few months later. So no, the Airs won't get Sandy Bridge at the same time as the MacBook Pros.

Funkymonk

Jan 28, 2011, 04:54 PM

The MacBook Airs will eventually be redesigned to get a faster chip, but the Airs just recently had a major redesign that is still using the Core 2 Duo and NVIDIA's system/IGP chip. I don't think Apple would have gone to the effort to redesign the MacBook Airs only to do a completely different motherboard and chip set only a few months later. So no, the Airs won't get Sandy Bridge at the same time as the MacBook Pros.

I'm with you with the airs but just how long can apple last on c2d if they aren't in production anymore?

Yebubbleman

Jan 28, 2011, 05:52 PM

I'm with you with the airs but just how long can apple last on c2d if they aren't in production anymore?

If my understanding is correct, then Apple can use Core 2 Duos until roughly around the time that Ivy Bridge is out. Convenient, if you think about it.

murdercitydevil

Jan 28, 2011, 07:10 PM

Yebubbleman

Jan 28, 2011, 07:12 PM

The 13" MB and Pro should be merged IMO. Bring back the unibody MB and just give it sliiiightly better hardware, and there you go. Of all the people I know who have 13" MBPs say they got it because there was a deal at school and they liked the unibody design better. They are essentially the same price but there's no reason not to get the MBP with the current lineup.

...if you have as good of a deal at your school, that is. If the 13" Pro were the same price as the white MacBook, then the only reason to get the white MacBook would be for the increased durability.

ciTiger

Jan 28, 2011, 10:12 PM

...if you have as good of a deal at your school, that is. If the 13" Pro were the same price as the white MacBook, then the only reason to get the white MacBook would be for the increased durability.

I'd like to start by saying I totally respect your arguments but I don't think Apple will drop the 13 at this point.

However you refer that the white Macbook is more durable than the 13 Pro?
I can't agree... I had a white Macbook (granted it was 2008 version) and it wasn't as durable as my current MBP 13.

What facts are there that the white is more durable?

Yebubbleman

Jan 28, 2011, 11:50 PM

I'd like to start by saying I totally respect your arguments but I don't think Apple will drop the 13 at this point.

Hold on a second, forget differences of both opinion and prediction, I have to commend you on your politeness in announcing your disagreement. I'm not at all being sarcastic. Too many people on here act like their stance and their defense of it is reflecting on them personally and take offense at disagreement, it seems. Kudos to you. Seriously. And thanks.

However you refer that the white Macbook is more durable than the 13 Pro?
I can't agree... I had a white Macbook (granted it was 2008 version) and it wasn't as durable as my current MBP 13.

What facts are there that the white is more durable?

The pre-Unibody white MacBook is pretty flimsy, my argument could only really be applied to the bottom case of that (generation of) MacBook, but not to the rest of it. I more speak for the materials themselves; put a current generation MacBook and a current generation 13" MacBook Pro through the same catastrophic accident in which physical damage to the exterior is incurred; the Aluminum on the 13" MacBook Pro (or any of the other MacBook Pros for that matter) will dent and bend and the plastic will scratch and take dings. The ugly dirt collecting rubber foot also helps, despite the fact that it is protecting a bottom case no less made of aluminum than that of its 13" Pro counterpart.

Filipek

Jan 29, 2011, 05:23 AM

Annoying more like it, I'm completely down to just say that we have a difference in opinion and move on. But now I'm obligated to match my "ego" against his...? I mean really, I don't care if I'm right or wrong. I have my reasons for predicting what I'm predicting and I admit that I could very well be wrong. None of us work for Apple beyond the retail level so none of us know for sure.

The IGP in Sandy Bridge is bearly at the point where it too is too weak to displace the 320M.

You know what's worse than someone with an ego problem? Someone who passively aggressively goes out of their way to insult someone else. Of course, it's the Internet and I don't really care a whole lot, I'm just sayin'. As for the arguments that I've (and you are right about this) stated over and over is that:

(a) Apple is faced once again with the choice of inferior graphics and better processor or inferior processor and better graphics. It's a lose-lose situation.

(b) They aren't nixing the optical drive in it as there really are enough people who still rely on it who'd rather not deal with the inconvenience of the external SuperDrive. They aren't nixing the 2.5" Bay, because the blade SSDs are still pricy and not terribly capacious.

(c) The problem noted in (a) isn't anywhere near as big of an issue with white MacBook, the MacBook Air, or the Mac mini; those customers would be fine with a GPU downgrade, or another round of Core 2 Duo as (a vast majority of) those customers don't know or even care about what those features even are. Though it is for the 13" Pro, which for half of its customer base, is used professionally to do things that are also done on higher-end machines like the 15" Pro.

(d) There are too many 13" computers in Apple's line-up. The 13" MacBook serves the education market and is the cheapest full-featured portable Mac. The 13" Air is their only full-sized ultraportable. The 13" Pro doesn't have anything to its name other than it's the only 13" laptop with FireWire port. Most consumers don't even know what that is!

(e) Before someone gives the "but it's their best selling model!" argument, which holds as much weight as you say my argument does, know that before the 13" Pro, that was the white MacBook, and before that it was the 17" Pro. It's not like those customers are going to go anywhere. They're still, more likely than not, to buy one of the other Macs.

(f) Given (a), (b), and (c), Apple is going to have a harder time selling the 13" Pro to the half of its customer base that didn't buy it because it looked prettiest, than it would if it simply kept the same machine but dropped the Pro branding or merged its featureset with the white MacBook to brand "The new MacBook".

Now, I have no insider information. I've followed Apple on this site for over seven years, but I claim to no nothing other than what they've done in the past. It's purely speculation; I could very well be wrong. I won't shoot down opposing ideas unless they themselves don't supply the logic to back it up and have that make sense given Apple's stances on technology and current decisions. I'm sorry you don't agree.

It's OK when you think of something happening, but it is annoying when you are so convinced in numerous threads that it's the only thing pointing out. And the fact you are so convinced of the arguments you made, but don't have a clue at all and it's only based on speculations and your own reasoning, where you make conclusions on things that sound like they have causal causes, where they actually don't have them at all.

a) I don't know what your solid arguments for this statement are, but how do you possibly could know what kind of choices they will make considering their graphics and CPU? Why not a better CPU AND better graphics? How do you know how much investment and research costs it is for Apple? How can you possibly know how their profits are affected by this?

b) Again, how do you know this? "Enough people" as in "enough" in your environment? This is called a confirmation bias. Give me hard numbers and we can argue. Considering the SSD you might be right about that, yes the prices are indeed relatively high, that's a fact. (but then again, who knows the original cost price Apple is paying for them?)

c) What more do I need to say? Give me hard numbers please, you make assumptions based on what?? Your friends?? Customers you are speaking with? How many percent is that of the total population using Macbook Pro's? Is it significant? I doubt that

d) And why are you the one deciding for Apple they have too many 13" laptops? Are they making losses because they have this "too many" 13" models? What are your solid arguments to confirm this statement?

e) I am not giving you that argument, but I am again asking for hard numbers, which you can not give me obviously. My thought is that a lot of potential new Apple users are being scared away when the MBP 13" will be discontinued, but I don't have any solid numbers for this either. Considering the existing Apple customers I indeed don't think it will bother, cause they will probably just switch to another model.

f) It would be far more logical to say they drop the 13" MB instead of the 13" MBP looking indeed at the selling numbers, but if I understand you correctly than we are saying the same, but with different model names?

Once again, it's not the fact that I don't agree, it's the fact that besides this comment, you sounded so damn sure of your case and were repeating it over and over again, it honestly started annoying me.
No hard feelings though.

cool11

Jan 29, 2011, 06:15 AM

I wish this conversation was about 15' model, which I think is the mainstream.
So many people talk about 13'.

ECUpirate44

Jan 29, 2011, 06:22 AM

I wish this conversation was about 15' model, which I think is the mainstream.
So many people talk about 13'.

The 13" MBP is clearly more main stream than the 15." Just walk on any college campus.

cool11

Jan 29, 2011, 07:05 AM

The 13" MBP is clearly more main stream than the 15." Just walk on any college campus.

I remember the days that we had 13' laptops and we were jealous of those ones who afforded to buy a 15' model.
So now you tell me, the smaller is once again the mainstream?
It seems obvious to me.

rjbruce

Jan 29, 2011, 08:53 AM

The sooner it comes the better!

Maybe it's even possible another refresh before the year ends AH!:D

Oh NO!!! You don't think... Maybe I should wait for THAT refresh. I'm so confused!!

</sarcasm> :D

mmoy

Jan 29, 2011, 08:55 AM

I'd love to see an upgrade - the uptake on notebooks with Sandy Bridge has been pretty slow. I have an early 2008 17 inch MBP and can't justify an upgrade at this time. Performance for me is fine, especially after adding an ExpressCard SSD. The only things that could move me to upgrade are better battery life and lower weight. Otherwise my current notebook could easily be good for another five years.

My ideal notebook would be a 15 inch notebook with 1920x1200 resolution, about 4 pounds, no DVD, no HDD, Ivy Bridge, Integrated Graphics (I don't do anything which requires discrete graphics). The nVidia 8600 on my current system probably accounts for the current 2 hour battery life. I generally have power plugs wherever I am (don't carry one with me) but that limits me when I am mobile. I like the design of the Sony Vaio Z - a friend has one that probably cost him $4K and he lives off of it. I like my son's 15 inch MBP with the high-res option. I still prefer 1920x1200 though.

I know that Apple can do all of this stuff right now. They are in a fortunate position of having a ton of options available. It would be nice to see new stuff coming out soon.

I was hoping for an iMac refresh but didn't want to wait so I built my own Sandy Bridge system. I'm looking forward to playing around with AVX on it.

ciTiger

Jan 29, 2011, 10:36 AM

Hold on a second, forget differences of both opinion and prediction, I have to commend you on your politeness in announcing your disagreement. I'm not at all being sarcastic. Too many people on here act like their stance and their defense of it is reflecting on them personally and take offense at disagreement, it seems. Kudos to you. Seriously. And thanks.

The pre-Unibody white MacBook is pretty flimsy, my argument could only really be applied to the bottom case of that (generation of) MacBook, but not to the rest of it. I more speak for the materials themselves; put a current generation MacBook and a current generation 13" MacBook Pro through the same catastrophic accident in which physical damage to the exterior is incurred; the Aluminum on the 13" MacBook Pro (or any of the other MacBook Pros for that matter) will dent and bend and the plastic will scratch and take dings. The ugly dirt collecting rubber foot also helps, despite the fact that it is protecting a bottom case no less made of aluminum than that of its 13" Pro counterpart.

Thanks :) But hey Although I don't agree with you there you seem to have patience enough to respond to everyone so Kudos to your for that.

As for the durability issue I guess you do have a point.
However I always take very good care of my laptops (they are expensive) and overall the MBP 13 has maintained its "stylish" design longer than the White which gets dirty. Come to think of it do you think people and those students know the white is more durable?

About the "getting dirty" the MBP doesn't even seems to get dirty, is it just me?

Yebubbleman

Jan 29, 2011, 11:00 AM

It's OK when you think of something happening, but it is annoying when you are so convinced in numerous threads that it's the only thing pointing out.

I apologize for that, but I do have an explanation. After I post my explanation, someone says something like "why the hell would ::insert your point here:: be possible?" So I repeat it again and again and again. I'm as sick of typing it all out as you are of reading it, but dudes on the Internet asked why it was and how it could be, so I, over and over again, gave them the answer I had. Really, I don't claim to be smart or have anything save for the fact that I have closely followed Apple news and rumors for the past seven years and am knowledgable of the trends and decisions that they've set in that time. I'm sure most people on this forum are, although it really doesn't seem it at times. And I love a good debate as much as the next guy. :)

And the fact you are so convinced of the arguments you made, but don't have a clue at all and it's only based on speculations and your own reasoning, where you make conclusions on things that sound like they have causal causes, where they actually don't have them at all..

I'm not 100% convinced. I'm pretty sure. I'd bet money on it. Not a lot of money, though. I don't think anyone on here has any claim that they're sure of that's based on anything more than speculation. It is MacRumors after all.

a) I don't know what your solid arguments for this statement are, but how do you possibly could know what kind of choices they will make considering their graphics and CPU? Why not a better CPU AND better graphics? How do you know how much investment and research costs it is for Apple? How can you possibly know how their profits are affected by this?.

Without making the logic board larger, there is physically no room for (a) the processor, (b) the chipset, and (c) a discrete GPU on the 13" MacBook Pro. For this I cite the dozen or so Logic Board transplants I've done on that exact machine. I know what it looks like naked and it doesn't have the goods. :cool:

b) Again, how do you know this? "Enough people" as in "enough" in your environment? This is called a confirmation bias. Give me hard numbers and we can argue. Considering the SSD you might be right about that, yes the prices are indeed relatively high, that's a fact. (but then again, who knows the original cost price Apple is paying for them?

I know about 1000 people all told and only three of them wouldn't appreciate the lack of an internal optical drive for it being an unnecessary lack of functionality. These people aren't techies, they are average joes who just want a full-featured computer. Is my sampling complete? Obviously not, but it's large enough to have me convinced that people on these forums are full of **** when they say that everyone wants the optical drive gone.

c) What more do I need to say? Give me hard numbers please, you make assumptions based on what?? Your friends?? Customers you are speaking with? How many percent is that of the total population using Macbook Pro's? Is it significant? I doubt that.

For this I cite the hundreds of people I see walk in to my workplace having bought those machines versus the other zillion of so I see walk into my workplace with the 13" Pro. Not a good enough sampling for you?

d) And why are you the one deciding for Apple they have too many 13" laptops? Are they making losses because they have this "too many" 13" models? What are your solid arguments to confirm this statement? .

They're not losing customers, but they're one for simplicity and if they can't make the 13" Pro substantially better, then why have two laptops that, save for the enclosure and a couple of ports, are essentially the same computer under the hood?

e) I am not giving you that argument, but I am again asking for hard numbers, which you can not give me obviously. My thought is that a lot of potential new Apple users are being scared away when the MBP 13" will be discontinued, but I don't have any solid numbers for this either. Considering the existing Apple customers I indeed don't think it will bother, cause they will probably just switch to another model..

I am still waiting for numbers on the notion that it STILL is their best selling model. As for your notion that users will be scared off, there has always been a #1 selling model. Before the 13" Pro it was the white MacBook, before that, it was the 12' PowerBook G4. Is that not good enough of a citation for you?

f) It would be far more logical to say they drop the 13" MB instead of the 13" MBP looking indeed at the selling numbers, but if I understand you correctly than we are saying the same, but with different model names?.

We are, but only because the education market covets the white MB. As for data, I'll cite the schools that have come into my workplace with multiple white MacBooks to be repaired, and the one only piece of insider info I know as to the reason why they're still even selling a white model. Were it not for that, I'd be in complete agreement with you.

Once again, it's not the fact that I don't agree, it's the fact that besides this comment, you sounded so damn sure of your case and were repeating it over and over again, it honestly started annoying me.
No hard feelings though.

It's okay, I got tired of repeating it to people who'd ask right below me giving them their answer as though they never read it.

fpnc

Jan 29, 2011, 05:55 PM

...Without making the logic board larger, there is physically no room for (a) the processor, (b) the chipset, and (c) a discrete GPU on the 13" MacBook Pro. For this I cite the dozen or so Logic Board transplants I've done on that exact machine. I know what it looks like naked and it doesn't have the goods. :cool:...
That's a common argument but it isn't necessarily true. Just remember, the basic design on the 13" MacBook Pro originated from the unibody 13" MacBook which probably began design almost three years ago (since the unibody MacBook was introduced in Oct. 2008). I'm not the first to take issue with such claims, note this response by another forum member just yesterday:
People make this claim as if it were a fact.

Only the Apple motherboard engineers know whether it's possible to include a separate graphics chip (not "card") on the board.

Parts get smaller, more integrated (so you need fewer of them), a port could be removed or moved, the battery could be made slightly smaller (since Sandy Bridge can use less power, this wouldn't necessarily reduce battery life).

Apple's engineers may surprise you.
To which I replied:
...In fact other manufactures have managed discrete graphics in systems similar to the 13" MacBook Pro's form factor. Of course, you're not going to find many systems (or any systems) that are an exact duplicate to either of Apple's full-featured 13" MacBooks. Once you figure in Apple's profit margins and some of the Mac's unique features it's hard to make direct comparisons to determine what may or may not be possible.
Lastly, when engineers designed the motherboard for the original unibody MacBook I don't believe that they began by saying that we're going to cram everything possible into this form factor. They look at price targets, manufacturability (for the time when the product will be introduced), battery capacity, heat dissipation, and other factors and then attempt to build a system that can remain competitive for at least a few years without major change (or which has relatively easy upgrade paths). In fact, it would be kind of pointless for them to spend money on any effort to make the motherboard smaller than it actually has to be (that is, include unused space within the enclosure). The flip side or balance to my argument is that they also won't make a motherboard design larger or populate it with more chips simply so that it fits nicely within the enclosure (that is, unless doing so has other significant benefits or if that larger size is required for practical or technical reasons). So, in a sense the motherboard design becomes a balance on cost, manufacturability, target market, form factor (size), and projected product lifetime.

Although I've suggested the removal of the optical drive from the MacBook Pros I've never tried to insist that this would be the only way they could fit a discrete graphics chip into the 13" form factor. It might make it easier and cheaper to do so, but it's probably not a requirement given other changes and the march of technology over the last several years.

alexxk

Jan 29, 2011, 06:09 PM

So, what's the situation on macbook pro stocks today??? Amazon still have all of them available except for the 17..

ciTiger

Jan 29, 2011, 08:41 PM

Yes, any recent activity?

dlubis

Jan 29, 2011, 09:38 PM

want to change my MBP 13-inch (2008) to MBP 15-inch, not in a hurry, so should i go now or wait for a few months? :confused:

Yebubbleman

Jan 29, 2011, 11:20 PM

Thanks :) But hey Although I don't agree with you there you seem to have patience enough to respond to everyone so Kudos to your for that.

As for the durability issue I guess you do have a point.
However I always take very good care of my laptops (they are expensive) and overall the MBP 13 has maintained its "stylish" design longer than the White which gets dirty. Come to think of it do you think people and those students know the white is more durable?

About the "getting dirty" the MBP doesn't even seems to get dirty, is it just me?

Educators who put in the orders for the white MacBook know that it is more durable. I'd say most general consumers aren't aware of the fact. But then again, most of them are careful enough to neither ding nor dent a laptop to the point where the added durability matters. It's primarily in the K-12 market where it matters most. That and any other Mac-laptop-purchasing school that needn't the features that the 13" Pro has over it, but still wanting to buy a full featured Mac laptop for an inexpensive price relative to the cost of any of the higher-end models.

As for the new MacBook Pros getting dirty, I've seen it, but only with people who let it get dirty. I'm not seeing the same discolorations that I've seen on the pre-Unibody systems, if that's what you're referring to.

want to change my MBP 13-inch (2008) to MBP 15-inch, not in a hurry, so should i go now or wait for a few months? :confused:

Wait for a few months. Trust me, it's a much better investment.

That's a common argument but it isn't necessarily true. Just remember, the basic design on the 13" MacBook Pro originated from the unibody 13" MacBook which probably began design almost three years ago (since the unibody MacBook was introduced in Oct. 2008). I'm not the first to take issue with such claims, note this response by another forum member just yesterday:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/04/why-the-13-macbook-pro-didnt-get-a-core-i5-upgrade.ars

Also, the Late 2008 Aluminum MacBook never had a discrete GPU, they were using a chip from NVIDIA that acted as both the IGP and the system chipset, the very predecessor to the chip that serves the same function in the Mid 2010 13" MacBook Pro, white MacBook, and Mac mini today.

To which I replied:

Lastly, when engineers designed the motherboard for the original unibody MacBook I don't believe that they began by saying that we're going to cram everything possible into this form factor. They look at price targets, manufacturability (for the time when the product will be introduced), battery capacity, heat dissipation, and other factors and then attempt to build a system that can remain competitive for at least a few years without major change (or which has relatively easy upgrade paths). In fact, it would be kind of pointless for them to spend money on any effort to make the motherboard smaller than it actually has to be (that is, include unused space within the enclosure). The flip side or balance to my argument is that they also won't make a motherboard design larger or populate it with more chips simply so that it fits nicely within the enclosure (that is, unless doing so has other significant benefits or if that larger size is required for practical or technical reasons). So, in a sense the motherboard design becomes a balance on cost, manufacturability, target market, form factor (size), and projected product lifetime.

Although I've suggested the removal of the optical drive from the MacBook Pros I've never tried to insist that this would be the only way they could fit a discrete graphics chip into the 13" form factor. It might make it easier and cheaper to do so, but it's probably not a requirement given other changes and the march of technology over the last several years.

Read the Ars article. It's definitely a space issue; again, I've seen that logic board many times and the article is dead on. The only way it is happening is if the board is allowed more room. Otherwise it isn't happening. Period. I'm not an engineer, but I know that you can't magically engineer more space for a discrete GPU on that board with the size that it currently is.

holden89

Jan 30, 2011, 05:51 AM

I'm way out of the loop, but I'm looking at getting a new MBP in the coming months. I'm slowly working my way through this thread, and have found a lot of people want to get rid of the optical drive. Can I ask why (other than to make it thinner)!? I don't want to have to buy an external optical drive just to be able to install programs that can't be downloaded off the internet, or I have disc for already. I also use my laptop to watch DVDs when I'm around the house, and when I go away. Having to carry around an external optical drive all the time - to me - sounds ridiculous.

The future may be everything gets downloaded, but that future is no where near around the corner. I have a 10gb monthly internet plan, because I have to go wireless (I'm in Australia), and I can't get any larger plan. Downloading Adobe creative suite would use that all up, and that's just one program..!

If there is no optical drive in the new MBP it will seriously put second thoughts in my mind about getting one.

cool11

Jan 30, 2011, 06:22 AM

There are people that really NEED optical drive.

13 years ago, Sun company told that 'the Net, is the computer'.
13 years later, we still all of us use our personal computers, even if we are close tied to the Net.

So, don't be so furious to get rid of dvd drive. We are not living in Space Odyssey, we live down to earth.

ArmCortexA8

Jan 30, 2011, 07:08 AM

morty192

Jan 30, 2011, 08:30 AM

Filipek

Jan 30, 2011, 09:39 AM

I apologize for that, but I do have an explanation. After I post my explanation, someone says something like "why the hell would ::insert your point here:: be possible?" So I repeat it again and again and again. I'm as sick of typing it all out as you are of reading it, but dudes on the Internet asked why it was and how it could be, so I, over and over again, gave them the answer I had. Really, I don't claim to be smart or have anything save for the fact that I have closely followed Apple news and rumors for the past seven years and am knowledgable of the trends and decisions that they've set in that time. I'm sure most people on this forum are, although it really doesn't seem it at times. And I love a good debate as much as the next guy. :)

I'm not 100% convinced. I'm pretty sure. I'd bet money on it. Not a lot of money, though. I don't think anyone on here has any claim that they're sure of that's based on anything more than speculation. It is MacRumors after all.

Without making the logic board larger, there is physically no room for (a) the processor, (b) the chipset, and (c) a discrete GPU on the 13" MacBook Pro. For this I cite the dozen or so Logic Board transplants I've done on that exact machine. I know what it looks like naked and it doesn't have the goods. :cool:

I know about 1000 people all told and only three of them wouldn't appreciate the lack of an internal optical drive for it being an unnecessary lack of functionality. These people aren't techies, they are average joes who just want a full-featured computer. Is my sampling complete? Obviously not, but it's large enough to have me convinced that people on these forums are full of **** when they say that everyone wants the optical drive gone.

For this I cite the hundreds of people I see walk in to my workplace having bought those machines versus the other zillion of so I see walk into my workplace with the 13" Pro. Not a good enough sampling for you?

They're not losing customers, but they're one for simplicity and if they can't make the 13" Pro substantially better, then why have two laptops that, save for the enclosure and a couple of ports, are essentially the same computer under the hood?

I am still waiting for numbers on the notion that it STILL is their best selling model. As for your notion that users will be scared off, there has always been a #1 selling model. Before the 13" Pro it was the white MacBook, before that, it was the 12' PowerBook G4. Is that not good enough of a citation for you?

We are, but only because the education market covets the white MB. As for data, I'll cite the schools that have come into my workplace with multiple white MacBooks to be repaired, and the one only piece of insider info I know as to the reason why they're still even selling a white model. Were it not for that, I'd be in complete agreement with you.

It's okay, I got tired of repeating it to people who'd ask right below me giving them their answer as though they never read it.

Well let's not waste much words about it, I understand your point of view, but I don't agree with it.

Also I wonder what kind of company you work in, and the type of customers you get. Because if they're 'random' customers, I mean random like in, picking randomly 1000 customers out of the group that uses Macbook Pro all over the world, then OK. But if it are for example only college students, or only webdesigners than for example I don't find it a good example. You get my point right?

But we will see what happens, hopefully as soon as possible.

Alphadan

Jan 30, 2011, 12:13 PM

stevo101

Jan 30, 2011, 12:28 PM

Seriously guys, I find it really hard to believe that the 13" MBP is not getting a new CPU, if Apple keeps the C2D there I would take it as an insult. I am currently in the market for a 13" MBP, and it'd be a let down if the unibody 13 incher was replaced with the 13" MB only because they are similar, performance-wise.

You keep saying that the 15 and 17inchers will get the new Sandy Bridge, but you forget the fact that they got a new i7 option back in October. The thing is that Sandy Bridge was just announced, and I don't think they are going to make it into the high end MBPs in time.

haha your telling me I bought the last updated 13 MBP and it wasnt too good, so i sold it (bought a low end asus to hold me over) and i'm waiting to see what the new stuff brings I will even switch to 15 MBP if it means getting decent specs! the new android phones coming out have dual core processors talk of quad core soon to come?!! now apple isnt only going to be out speced from windows computers but mobile phones!! thats what scares me! windows people think we are crazy as it is paying as much as we do for apples hopefully jobs doesnt let us down!!!

ciTiger

Jan 30, 2011, 02:08 PM

Off-topic:
Don't you guys hate the weekends? (forget about the part that you don't work at weekends for a second ok? :) )

Rumors are always so slow at weekends unless there is an event scheduled..

eah2119

Jan 30, 2011, 02:35 PM

I doubt they'll have only SSD. Too expensive for such small space. I'd say they'll have the same options as before but also an option for set-up much like the current macbook airs.

Yebubbleman

Jan 30, 2011, 03:03 PM

Hi all

Well i put my MBP 13" on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220730587128&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT) , has 6 days to go and its hit AU$810 already (cost me AU$1,399 September 2010). Now remember I upgraded the RAM to 2 x Corsair 4GB DDR3 1066 (lifetime warranty), plus currently I have a Corsair X-128 SSD in the MPB 13" and it absolutely screams along - boots complete system with all apps installed in 3 seconds - shuts down in 1 second completely - now thats quick.

Naturally, I will be reinstalling the original 250GB drive and doing a fresh install of Mac OSX with the system default applications. I will keep the Corsair X-128 for my next Mac. In the mean time I will be switching back temporarily to a Windows based system using Office (so can import my emails via PST) until I decided on the next Mac. The questions I ponder are this:-

1. Do I wait for the next MPB revision and possibly go a larger size?
2. Do I get a MacBook Air 11" or 13" equivalent to the MBP I am selling?
3. I am concerned the next MBP wont allow user upgradable 2.5" HDD / and or RAM (possibly going the way of the MacBook Air).
4. I do prefer an optical drive as I rip DVD's using Handbrake, but its not a necessity.

Plus with the price of a MacBook Air 13" and 4GB RAM hitting almost AU$1,800, this further indicates the MBP is better value. Any advice would be greatly appreciated to get an overall view

If you're selling a 13" MacBook Pro, I'd save up for the extra to get at least the bottom of the line 15" model. In hearing about the potential of the next 13" Pro, assuming it sticks around, to either retain a Core 2 Duo, or get an inferior IGP, I decided to say screw it and save for a machine where neither problem is an issue, and as a bonus, I get 2.1 more diagonal inches of screen real-estate.

Well let's not waste much words about it, I understand your point of view, but I don't agree with it.

Also I wonder what kind of company you work in, and the type of customers you get. Because if they're 'random' customers, I mean random like in, picking randomly 1000 customers out of the group that uses Macbook Pro all over the world, then OK. But if it are for example only college students, or only webdesigners than for example I don't find it a good example. You get my point right?

But we will see what happens, hopefully as soon as possible.

While I'm based in a college town, I do get college students, but I also get graphic designers, people who do know a lot about computers (who are neither a student nor a graphic designer), people who just use the computer for web browsing and word processing. Some stereotypes certainly more than others, but I feel as though it's a healthy mix of people. Where I think my sampling is a bit skewwed is in that quite a few of them are kind of crazy in general, though I doubt that specifically factors into their preference of retaining the optical drive.

I mean really, I'm fine to just say that we have a difference in opinion and move on with it. I think that the 15" and 17" refreshes will be boring and more or less easily predicted, the 13", I feel will be a surprise no matter what happens.

Off-topic:
Don't you guys hate the weekends? (forget about the part that you don't work at weekends for a second ok? :) )

Rumors are always so slow at weekends unless there is an event scheduled..

SERIOUSLY! I hate slow rumor weekends!