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View Full Version : Thoughts on cracking pepsi codes...


Wes
Feb 5, 2005, 12:41 PM
I was just wondering about this.

As everybody is aware, much software comes with keys. Often people are able to make keygens to circumvent this protection. In [most, new] online games generated keys do not work as the makers know which keys have been handed out.

Have Pepsi/Apple been this clever or is it possible to write a program that could spew out song codes...

I'm in no way advocating this but it got me thinking.

robbieduncan
Feb 5, 2005, 01:00 PM
It's simply not possible to be so clever that a code generator could not be written. But given the low tech method of "cheating" why would anyone bother?

Wes
Feb 5, 2005, 01:03 PM
It's simply not possible to be so clever that a code generator could not be written. But given the low tech method of "cheating" why would anyone bother?
Why do people install linux on iPods? Because they can.

Logik
Feb 5, 2005, 01:10 PM
if you have decent eyes you can do like me... i can tip the bottle, find out if it's a winner and then quickly read the characters to the code off into a microphone find another bottle and repeat... never even have to buy the product... i prefer coke anyway ;) and yes it is possible as i did it quite frequently during the last promotion

Mechcozmo
Feb 5, 2005, 01:17 PM
if you have decent eyes you can do like me... i can tip the bottle, find out if it's a winner and then quickly read the characters to the code off into a microphone find another bottle and repeat... never even have to buy the product... i prefer coke anyway ;) and yes it is possible as i did it quite frequently during the last promotion

They are filling up the bottles more this time or something so that people can't do that...

Norouzi
Feb 5, 2005, 01:20 PM
if you have decent eyes you can do like me... i can tip the bottle, find out if it's a winner and then quickly read the characters to the code off into a microphone find another bottle and repeat... never even have to buy the product... i prefer coke anyway ;) and yes it is possible as i did it quite frequently during the last promotion

Dude that's not cool, I have no problem with you looking through the bottle to see if it's a winner and then buying that bottle, but taking down the code so you can use it without buying it. That screws the person who actually buys that bottle out of their free song. So not cool.

g30ffr3y
Feb 5, 2005, 01:20 PM
i really doubt they are going to give you more
pepsi per bottle to circumvent the cheating...

over the millions of bottles that little bit extra
would turn into a whole lot of lost $$$ in the budget...

i dont think pepsi gives a flying crap if people cheat...
especially when the other option is giving away free
pepsi...

BLINK
Feb 5, 2005, 01:56 PM
I tried the tipping the bottle method on a bottle of pepsi I bought the other day. I dont see how people can read the cap by doing that. First of all, once you take it out of the frig it fogs up and secondly, the pring on the cap is so light, its very hard to read.

saabmp3
Feb 5, 2005, 01:58 PM
There's two ways that they do this. The first is an algorithm to figure out what the code should be on the iTunes web site. The other is that they just generate truly random numbers. I wouldn't put it past them to have a database of the random numbers. Software, unless being activated over the internet (basically only a handful of applications require that) need to use some sort of alogrithm, they can't check against an ever updated database of correct codes. The iTunes store has the advantage of being server side. The database can be updated whenever the bottle is packaged.


I just thought of this. If it is true of an ever updated database, is there a connection to a barcode on the bottle to the code underneath so they can tell when it left the factory? Inventory control is a big business now and this falls right into that catagory.

BEN

Macophile
Feb 5, 2005, 02:36 PM
They are filling up the bottles more this time or something so that people can't do that...

I've never been able to get The Tilt to work. I think the regional bottlers have enough of a variance among them that a fraction of an ounce more completely obscures the code and a fraction of an ounce less lets you catch a glimpse.

I'm just glad I can find the bottles already. They didn't show up in Los Angeles last year until late March.

JeDiBoYTJ
Feb 5, 2005, 03:56 PM
They are filling up the bottles more this time or something so that people can't do that...

I was always able to get the tile to work, and every one this year I have looked at, im still able to tilt and see whats a winner.... so I dont think they are putting any more pepsi into the bottles, it would cost them way too much money to go around and change the machines that put the pepsi into the bottle

Logik
Feb 5, 2005, 05:32 PM
Dude that's not cool, I have no problem with you looking through the bottle to see if it's a winner and then buying that bottle, but taking down the code so you can use it without buying it. That screws the person who actually buys that bottle out of their free song. So not cool.

in all likelihood people aren't even aware of the itunes thing yet. and if you remember the number of people who redeemed caps last time the odds of one of those bottles being redeemed was pretty small. you worry a bit much.. they had 100,000,000 bottles.. i had only a handful of those... lol but whatever, i was simply stating the truth, no one gives a rip except you guys that you wouldn't get your free song. and i was just explaining that it's more than possible to simply find out that a bottle is a winner, you can actually read the code (upside down) ... easy enough

solvs
Feb 5, 2005, 07:27 PM
I've won 2/2 so far by tilting, but sometimes it's hard to see. Plus, everybody in the store looks at me funny. :p I'd never bother cracking the codes, because it would suck to the person who did win and can't use their code. I suppose it's possible, but not really worth it for a $0.99 song.

I suppose you could just start randomly entering codes.

Wes
Feb 5, 2005, 07:42 PM
I suppose you could just start randomly entering codes.

Hm... no thanks.

http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/pepsicap.jpg

This is the only winning cap I've seen. If they all follow a similar scheme:

(26^9)*10 = 54,295,036,789,760

200,000,000/54,295,036,789,760 = 3.68358*10^-6

I'll skip my 0.000368358% chance of guessing :p.

wdlove
Feb 5, 2005, 08:26 PM
if you have decent eyes you can do like me... i can tip the bottle, find out if it's a winner and then quickly read the characters to the code off into a microphone find another bottle and repeat... never even have to buy the product... i prefer coke anyway ;) and yes it is possible as i did it quite frequently during the last promotion

I happen to have very poor eyesight, so it is very difficult for me to even be sure of a winner prior to purchase. The only way is to find a young person to assist me, that is if i have the nerve to ask. :o What you are doing is wrong, don't you feel guilty about doing this practice. It could be considered stealing. Do you ever think about the person that actually purchases the product legally will be prevented from getting his free song. after all it could be me. :( :mad: :eek:

Logik
Feb 5, 2005, 08:46 PM
I happen to have very poor eyesight, so it is very difficult for me to even be sure of a winner prior to purchase. The only way is to find a young person to assist me, that is if i have the nerve to ask. :o What you are doing is wrong, don't you feel guilty about doing this practice. It could be considered stealing. Do you ever think about the person that actually purchases the product legally will be prevented from getting his free song. after all it could be me. :( :mad: :eek:

naa no guilty conscience here. they charge $1.39 for a bottle of pepsi around here... screw that crap lol. it's cheaper to buy a 2 liter than a pepsi single. glad all i drink is water anymore, from a tap and as such is free.

NZDave
Feb 5, 2005, 09:31 PM
Hm... no thanks.

http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/pepsicap.jpg

This is the only winning cap I've seen. If they all follow a similar scheme:

(26^9)*10 = 54,295,036,789,760

200,000,000/54,295,036,789,760 = 3.68358*10^-6

I'll skip my 0.000368358% chance of guessing :p.


I've already made one stupid mistake on the forums today, but I'm gonna risk another.

I think the chance is even less than that, from the 15 or so I've had, it seems any of the 10 characters can be alpha-numerical, meaning

(36)^10 = 3,656,158,440,062,976 (wow, that's a lot)

200,000,000/3,656,158,440,062,976 = 5.4702 * 10^-8

So unless you've got NOTHING better to do, trying to guess might be a bad plan.

Mechcozmo
Feb 5, 2005, 09:50 PM
in all likelihood people aren't even aware of the itunes thing yet. and if you remember the number of people who redeemed caps last time the odds of one of those bottles being redeemed was pretty small. you worry a bit much.. they had 100,000,000 bottles.. i had only a handful of those... lol but whatever, i was simply stating the truth, no one gives a rip except you guys that you wouldn't get your free song. and i was just explaining that it's more than possible to simply find out that a bottle is a winner, you can actually read the code (upside down) ... easy enough

That was when iTunes didn't have 70%+ marketshare. Now, they do. If I got a bottle that was bad, I'd think about mailing a Pepsi bottle to your house with a dollar taped to it and say "Here. Take it, from me directly."

Logik
Feb 5, 2005, 10:39 PM
That was when iTunes didn't have 70%+ marketshare. Now, they do. If I got a bottle that was bad, I'd think about mailing a Pepsi bottle to your house with a dollar taped to it and say "Here. Take it, from me directly."

well lucky for you i haven't done it this time nor do i intend to. if i wanted free songs that badly i'd fire up an ftp client and hop on a friends server, much easier. either way, i refuse to buy pepsi products because they cost more for a single than a 2 liter which is totally ridiculous.

Bear
Feb 5, 2005, 10:45 PM
Pay a dollar for a bottle of soda (which may not be a winner) I don't like or just pay for the song directly.

I don't think I'm going to be buying Pepsi Products with this promotion. I don't drink Coke products either. I like the smaller brands that still use real sugar instead of corn syrup. (Like Boylan Bottling Company.)

Cybernanga
Feb 5, 2005, 10:58 PM
i refuse to buy pepsi products because they cost more for a single than a 2 liter which is totally ridiculous.

It's not ridiculous, it's cheaper for pepsi to make/distribute the larger bottles, due to packaging issues. That's why they price them like that.

Whenever you buy anything in bulk it's cheaper than buying smaller quantities.

FosterKanig
Feb 5, 2005, 11:54 PM
well lucky for you i haven't done it this time nor do i intend to. if i wanted free songs that badly i'd fire up an ftp client and hop on a friends server, much easier. either way, i refuse to buy pepsi products because they cost more for a single than a 2 liter which is totally ridiculous.

Wow, you seem to be taking pride in the fact that during the last promotion you were being a ********ing *******, and in this promotion you've decided not to be. ********ers like you are everything that is wrong in this world. Concerned so much for yourself that you'd **** other people for a dollar. A dollar. We're real proud of you this time, ****chop.

solvs
Feb 6, 2005, 02:02 AM
Hm... no thanks.

I'll skip my 0.000368358% chance of guessing :p.
That's why I said but not really worth it for a $0.99 song. ;)

Wes
Feb 6, 2005, 03:17 AM
I've already made one stupid mistake on the forums today, but I'm gonna risk another.

I think the chance is even less than that, from the 15 or so I've had, it seems any of the 10 characters can be alpha-numerical, meaning

(36)^10 = 3,656,158,440,062,976 (wow, that's a lot)

200,000,000/3,656,158,440,062,976 = 5.4702 * 10^-8

So unless you've got NOTHING better to do, trying to guess might be a bad plan.

We get different values because I assumed there had to be one numerical value in that digit. If it were totally random it would be 36^10.

Logik
Feb 6, 2005, 08:39 AM
Wow, you seem to be taking pride in the fact that during the last promotion you were being a ********ing *******, and in this promotion you've decided not to be. ********ers like you are everything that is wrong in this world. Concerned so much for yourself that you'd **** other people for a dollar. A dollar. We're real proud of you this time, ****chop.

lol.. wow you are taking this way to seriously. go take a chill pill and calm down. i'm everything that's wrong in this world? i'm certainly not what's wrong with this world seeing as i donate to miscellaneous charity groups throughout the year, might not be a lot but i still give something. i also volunteer at a school where i will be teaching in less than 2 years.

the reason i "stole" from those bottles is simple, it's a freakin code under a cap. if pepsi was at all "worried" about this then they would've changed it. there's 200,000,000 caps out there. the odds of them all being used are very unlikely, the odds of someone getting of those caps that i might "steal" is even smaller. so chill your asses and forget about it, you're all flipping out for no reason.

varmit
Feb 6, 2005, 09:13 AM
Why do people install linux on iPods? Because they can.And as soon as you put in a some bad or used cap codes, your account gets cancelled and you get arrested. Why, because you had to use a credit card to sign up in the first place. Oh, used someone elses, they have your IP now too. Knock! Knock! Knock! FBI! Don't forget your KY.

Stick to just looking under the bottle cap before buying.

Logik
Feb 6, 2005, 09:17 AM
And as soon as you put in a some bad or used cap codes, your account gets cancelled and you get arrested. Why, because you had to use a credit card to sign up in the first place. Oh, used someone elses, they have your IP now too. Knock! Knock! Knock! FBI! Don't forget your KY.

Stick to just looking under the bottle cap before buying.

besides that doesn't it limit you to redeeming 10 a day or something along those lines? my brother worked as a janitor (after school job) and cleaned the classrooms ... LOTS of bottles thrown away that were winners, i believe they limited it to 10 codes per day last year, not sure if they're doing the same this year. i think he ended up with like 120 free songs because of that too.. and had to give some to me because he couldn't redeem them fast enough due to that limit

JonoColesUK
Feb 6, 2005, 09:29 AM
who the hell drinks pepsi?????

Wes
Feb 6, 2005, 09:37 AM
And as soon as you put in a some bad or used cap codes, your account gets cancelled and you get arrested. Why, because you had to use a credit card to sign up in the first place. Oh, used someone elses, they have your IP now too. Knock! Knock! Knock! FBI! Don't forget your KY.

Stick to just looking under the bottle cap before buying.
I hope Bubba will go easy, I only was stealing $0.99 worth of music. :( :p

As I said, I wasn't going to do this. I can't; I live in the UK. I was wondering about the technical viability.

Mord
Feb 6, 2005, 11:24 AM
Why do people install linux on iPods? Because they can.

i put it on my ipod to cheat in cisco exams, i can look at the file browser and check where certain files are in a linux system :P

Mechcozmo
Feb 6, 2005, 10:37 PM
lol.. wow you are taking this way to seriously. go take a chill pill and calm down. i'm everything that's wrong in this world? i'm certainly not what's wrong with this world seeing as i donate to miscellaneous charity groups throughout the year, might not be a lot but i still give something. i also volunteer at a school where i will be teaching in less than 2 years.

the reason i "stole" from those bottles is simple, it's a freakin code under a cap. if pepsi was at all "worried" about this then they would've changed it. there's 200,000,000 caps out there. the odds of them all being used are very unlikely, the odds of someone getting of those caps that i might "steal" is even smaller. so chill your asses and forget about it, you're all flipping out for no reason.

Just because there is wrong in this world doesn't mean you can add to it.
Just because I don't believe in something doesn't mean I can use it as an excuse to make more things that are wrong.
Just because you will do something good in the future doesn't mean you can cancel out your bad now.
Just because the chance of something happening is low, doesn't mean you can hope it doesn't happen.

neoelectronaut
Feb 7, 2005, 12:10 AM
I bought a Cherry Pepsi today with the hopes of getting a free song...

...got a buy one get one free cap instead... :(

angelneo
Feb 7, 2005, 03:40 AM
lol.. wow you are taking this way to seriously. go take a chill pill and calm down. i'm everything that's wrong in this world? i'm certainly not what's wrong with this world seeing as i donate to miscellaneous charity groups throughout the year, might not be a lot but i still give something. i also volunteer at a school where i will be teaching in less than 2 years.

the reason i "stole" from those bottles is simple, it's a freakin code under a cap. if pepsi was at all "worried" about this then they would've changed it. there's 200,000,000 caps out there. the odds of them all being used are very unlikely, the odds of someone getting of those caps that i might "steal" is even smaller. so chill your asses and forget about it, you're all flipping out for no reason.Dude, it's a slippery slope. Once you start justifying tiny small errors with "who cares", "its just a 0.99", you are going to start doing it again with bigger stuff. Its always these small stuff that lead to bigger mistakes. I got friends who always find excuses for stuff they did and next thing you know, they start cheating in test quoting excuses and excuses. They can always find excuses but it doesn't change the truth.

Logik
Feb 7, 2005, 07:13 AM
Dude, it's a slippery slope. Once you start justifying tiny small errors with "who cares", "its just a 0.99", you are going to start doing it again with bigger stuff. Its always these small stuff that lead to bigger mistakes. I got friends who always find excuses for stuff they did and next thing you know, they start cheating in test quoting excuses and excuses. They can always find excuses but it doesn't change the truth.

right... let me explain.. i used to steal software, as a student making no money at all i couldn't afford it. now that i can afford it i buy it. odd eh? i've done the reverse of what you're saying. i haven't stolen music since iTMS came out, and I buy more music now than i did before. I buy software now as well. School gives me HEAVY discounts on Office, and Windows XP including free antivirus software. You make it affordable to me and i'll be happy to buy the product. there's no slippery slope here man. you guys are bitching at me about this yet there's tens of other people out there doing it in mass... i don't see why i'm taking all the crap here because i haven't even touched one of these bottles yet this year but to see if i could still see the codes and if it was a winner, and no i didn't steal it. :rolleyes:

you definitely need to stop pidgeon holing me here, i'd have to say i'm probabl y a better person than A LOT of the people you know so ripping me a new one isn't doing any good, so get off it. "if" someone get's one that doesn't work .. i'll be happy to get them one that does. this is where i'm ending this discussion because i don't need more crap from you guys, i got enough **** going on and i'd rather help someone on here than argue about ethics

wPod
Feb 7, 2005, 09:27 AM
i thought the major step that iTMS has taken was to get people AWAY from stealing. and in general i think it has worked. there will always be the couple people that find a way around and with technology how it is people will always be trying to download free music, free movies and free software. it just cots more to make the 'perfect' DRM for all forms of media than it costs to lose a little money to stealing. i just think those who dont steal will always feel better about themselves. but i have to admit tilting the bottle is not stealing. as long as you tilt, look for a winner, then buy the winner. but if you steal the code and prevent someone else from putting it it, thats still stealing. but i dont even think you can see the full code. when ever i look i can only see a difference b/w the winners and the losers. but im hopeing to find some soon, the caps havent found their way to dallas yet.

Logik
Feb 7, 2005, 11:01 AM
i thought the major step that iTMS has taken was to get people AWAY from stealing. and in general i think it has worked. there will always be the couple people that find a way around and with technology how it is people will always be trying to download free music, free movies and free software. it just cots more to make the 'perfect' DRM for all forms of media than it costs to lose a little money to stealing. i just think those who dont steal will always feel better about themselves. but i have to admit tilting the bottle is not stealing. as long as you tilt, look for a winner, then buy the winner. but if you steal the code and prevent someone else from putting it it, thats still stealing. but i dont even think you can see the full code. when ever i look i can only see a difference b/w the winners and the losers. but im hopeing to find some soon, the caps havent found their way to dallas yet.

let's see.. total cost of musical goods in 2003? $40 (1 cd, and about 20 songs from iTMS when it was available to windows users).

total spent in 2004 (excluding pepsi promotion) - $320 (numerous cd's that are now $8-10 instead of $15-20, and about $100 in iTMS songs)

total spent in 2005 so far.. $10 on iTMS.... still trying to pay for tuition this semester so not much spare money laying around...

and just to note, you CAN see the free code. someone mentioned that some distributors will put more in the bottle so maybe this does vary from location to location, but here where i live, i CAN tip the bottle, if you see "free song" then turn it a complete 180 you can view the code upside down, you will then have to read it upside down and backwards from bottom to top to get the code. it isn't exactly easy but it is possible if you look at it right. if annyone would like i could buy a bottle and see if i can take pictures of it.. in fact i'll grab one on the way home just to prove it. i'll try to take pictures tonight, but if not i'll do it tomorrow after classes

angelneo
Feb 8, 2005, 08:14 AM
you definitely need to stop pidgeon holing me here, i'd have to say i'm probabl y a better person than A LOT of the people you know so ripping me a new one isn't doing any good, so get off it. "if" someone get's one that doesn't work .. i'll be happy to get them one that does. this is where i'm ending this discussion because i don't need more crap from you guys, i got enough **** going on and i'd rather help someone on here than argue about ethics
Actually, I'm not bitching about you... It's just that you reminded me of one of my friend, that's all. And he is not doing that good right now. just offering some perspective.

Logik
Feb 8, 2005, 10:20 AM
Actually, I'm not bitching about you... It's just that you reminded me of one of my friend, that's all. And he is not doing that good right now. just offering some perspective.

i think that was more of a combination of everyone attacking me :-P

sure it's not fair to those who get a cap that doesnt work.. however i have gotten caps from pepsi that didn't work .. "invalid code" .. not "this code has already been used" ... it was just a bad code on the cap, in fact it has happened quite a few times.. i'd be more concerned about pepsi's bad codes than someoen stealing caps :-P

anyway, i buy more stuff now than i used to because they've given me a way to buy it at a price i can afford and in the way i want it. a lot of the code stealing i was doing before was simply a proof of concept kinda thing.. no one believed me i could do it so i did it and proved i could.

wildace
Feb 8, 2005, 08:31 PM
As computed in my password calculator there are 13,537,086,546,263,600
possible combinations and it would only take 100,000 computers to crack it in 3.94 hours if operating at peak performance.
-wild :cool: :D ace

mojohanna
Feb 8, 2005, 08:56 PM
It's not ridiculous, it's cheaper for pepsi to make/distribute the larger bottles, due to packaging issues. That's why they price them like that.

Whenever you buy anything in bulk it's cheaper than buying smaller quantities.
Keep in mind that you are most likely buying the 20oz in some sort of 7-11 type store. You pay more for a convienient purchase.
Quit your griping, go back to P2P and leave the rest of this to people who enjoy the thrill of winning a $.99 song. You are taking away all of the fun in this for me. I enjoy hearing my wife give me a hard time about buying a soda for $1.29 just to TRY to win a $.99 song. :D

Logik
Feb 9, 2005, 12:40 PM
Keep in mind that you are most likely buying the 20oz in some sort of 7-11 type store. You pay more for a convienient purchase.
Quit your griping, go back to P2P and leave the rest of this to people who enjoy the thrill of winning a $.99 song. You are taking away all of the fun in this for me. I enjoy hearing my wife give me a hard time about buying a soda for $1.29 just to TRY to win a $.99 song. :D

$1.29 + 10 cent deposit... in a grocery store. not a small one mind you, a big full size grocery store. it's ridiculous to be honest with you, as such i refuse to buy pepsi products due to the price. 12 pack (cans) costs $4.29 + $1.20 deposit... at every store in the area unless they are having a sale. pretty outrageous prices. coke isn't any better either..

therevolution
Feb 9, 2005, 01:14 PM
AFAIK, creating keygen programs usually involves having a copy of the software in question and, while it is processing a valid key during the install process, you look at what's going on at the instruction level in the CPU and determine what criteria it's looking for in a valid key.

Obviously, this won't work with the Pepsi codes. Only Pepsi/Apple know the algorithm being used to generate codes - could be deterministic, but it's most likely random, in which case it wouldn't even help to know it anyway.

Wes
Feb 9, 2005, 01:31 PM
AFAIK, creating keygen programs usually involves having a copy of the software in question and, while it is processing a valid key during the install process, you look at what's going on at the instruction level in the CPU and determine what criteria it's looking for in a valid key.

Obviously, this won't work with the Pepsi codes. Only Pepsi/Apple know the algorithm being used to generate codes - could be deterministic, but it's most likely random, in which case it wouldn't even help to know it anyway.

This is what I had been thinking. Good to have a knowledgeable post among the bickering :).

yg17
Feb 9, 2005, 11:37 PM
Considering how Apple has my full name, address, phone number, and visa number on their servers, I dont think I'd want to even attempt using generated codes.