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Funkymonk
Feb 7, 2011, 02:42 PM
Same footprint as 13" mbp, just thinner.

it's higher resolution yeah but I think after the update coming soon 13" will get that too
ssd could be put in the mbp too

I think the air should only be 11". 13" air doesn't make sense to me. Honestly not trying to insult others purchase, just want to understand.



gdeputy
Feb 7, 2011, 02:46 PM
Same footprint as 13" mbp, just thinner.

it's higher resolution yeah but I think after the update coming soon 13" will get that too
ssd could be put in the mbp too

I think the air should only be 11". 13" air doesn't make sense to me. Honestly not trying to insult others purchase, just want to understand.

Well let's all be thankful your not in charge of that decision at apple hq.

Whorehay
Feb 7, 2011, 02:49 PM
1) Around 1.5 pounds lighter
2) Higher resolution screen (on par with regular 15" MBP)
3) Comes with fast SSD (relative to HDD)
4) Around 1.5 pounds lighter
5) Still a lot thinner

But I'm on the same boat as you. That's why I ended up getting the 11". But the 13" has its place.

TheRealDamager
Feb 7, 2011, 02:53 PM
An 11" inch screen just wont cut it for me - I need a font that's bigger (hey, I'm old) and I need the screen real estate of the 13.

In my opinion, the difference between the two is huge, especially if, like me, you carry your laptop to and from work everyday on a train and traveling all over the place. In my eyes the 13" MBA is the perfect compromise - lose lots of weight and thinkness without losing the screen real estate.

KPOM
Feb 7, 2011, 03:00 PM
I've used a MacBook Air since the Rev A back in 2008. For me, the 1.5lb weight difference is huge. Plus, it is still thin enough to fit inside the document pocket of the case for my office Windows notebook. That way I can take it with me when I'm traveling without having to take another bag or use up valuable luggage space.

That said, I'm seriously considering switching to the 11" model with the Rev E or Rev F model. I just didn't want to step down to the 1.6GHz CPU and be limited to 128GB on the SSD with the current 11" model. If it were offered with the 1.86GHz Core 2 Duo and 256GB SSD I might have gone with the 11".

ecib
Feb 7, 2011, 03:02 PM
Same footprint as 13" mbp, just thinner.

it's higher resolution yeah but I think after the update coming soon 13" will get that too
ssd could be put in the mbp too

I think the air should only be 11". 13" air doesn't make sense to me. Honestly not trying to insult others purchase, just want to understand.

No, it's a question a lot of people weigh, myself included.

I just bought a 13" maxed out MBA, and for me, It came down to:

1)I carry my laptop with me everywhere, every day. Even at home, I'm curling up with it on the couch and in bed. The fact that it is so much lighter and smaller profile makes a huge difference (to me anyway).

2)Better screen resolution.

3)Flash Memory. You can upgrade the MBP, but once you do, those savings start to dwindle (but still exist I know, and are even better if you get a third party to provide the SSD)

4)Thinner and doesn't have a disk drive. For some people this is a minus (just one more feature it lacks for the money), for me, I don't *wan't* my laptop to have an optical drive if I can just cut the space down. Again, that's just me.

5)Just looks cooler. (At least I'm *admitting* this is hugely important to me :P)


Basically, there was nothing in my use cases that a maxed out MBA 13" couldn't handle for the duration of my owning it, and I like it better, so there.

I'll be the first to admit that you get way more computing bang for your buck with a MBP. I'm steering my girlfriend towards one once they update(her old Powerbook G4 is having issues), -just not for me.

miggitymac
Feb 7, 2011, 03:22 PM
Some ppl don't need the power-bump in the MBP, and can get by with the lower spec'd MBA.

Some people prefer the 13" screen over the 11" screen.

Some people prefer lighter and thin over heavier and less thin.

Some people may wonder what the point of the base 13" MBP is. Not like it's gonna be able to do much more than the 13" Air...and if you really need it to do much more than an Air can you'd probably be better off with the 15/17 MBPs.

It's all about perspective...

Funkymonk
Feb 7, 2011, 03:33 PM
Some ppl don't need the power-bump in the MBP, and can get by with the lower spec'd MBA.
so you're willing to pay more for lower specs?

Some people prefer the 13" screen over the 11" screen.
agreed
Some people prefer lighter and thin over heavier and less thin.
agreed
Some people may wonder what the point of the base 13" MBP is. Not like it's gonna be able to do much more than the 13" Air...and if you really need it to do much more than an Air can you'd probably be better off with the 15/17 MBPs.
I guess
It's all about perspective...

bolded

miggitymac
Feb 7, 2011, 03:49 PM
bolded

you're not paying more for lower specs.

yes they have lower specs...but you're paying more for the form factor...thinness and lightness and SSD snappiness...the battery life, and the benefits that those things can bring to your day-to-day activities.

it's hard to explain unless you've had one for a day...

i understand your question tho...it's just that that type of question was also asked of the ipad...and usually you will never know the answer to the question unless you go and try one out for a day. fortunately for steve jobs & co., millions of ppl have found out the answer.

chrono1081
Feb 7, 2011, 04:03 PM
The 13 inch MBA is powerful. No one is paying for a "lower specced machine." Specs dont matter near as much as people think they do anyway.

What you are paying for is a different specced machine. The SSD is not a cheap component and almost single handedly makes this machine fly. The 13 inch is very fast. I use Maya and ZBrush on it when I need to travel.

As for the 13 inches place, there are many people who need a thin laptop to travel. For example I used to work in a not so friendly country and had to travel in and out with very limited equipment. The computer I had was essential but took up a lot of weight. I would have loved to have an air seeing how as I had only a 15 pound weight limit I was allowed to carry.

Other people who travel often or travel with stuff like camera gear appreciate the extra thinness too. The macbook pro 13, while nice, is thicker and heavier and for a lot of uses, slower then the air due to lack of an SSD.

I know your probably wondering why not just use the 11inch air, well as much as I love that machine I need the screen size of the 13 inch. The 13 inch is the lowest I can go and still code on. Its also the lowest I can use programs like Unity, Maya, and ZBrush on.

iPhoneCollector
Feb 7, 2011, 04:09 PM
I think the 13" mba is good if one is used to bigger displays but the 11" is just more portable and it looks cooler

Undo Redo
Feb 7, 2011, 04:16 PM
On the other hand, what's the point of the 13" MacBook Pro? I've been thinking Apple should discontinue that. I don't see the point of there being a white MacBook as well as a MacBook Pro that are basically (almost) the same.

Funkymonk
Feb 7, 2011, 04:30 PM
The 13 inch MBA is powerful. No one is paying for a "lower specced machine." Specs dont matter near as much as people think they do anyway.

What you are paying for is a different specced machine. The SSD is not a cheap component and almost single handedly makes this machine fly. The 13 inch is very fast. I use Maya and ZBrush on it when I need to travel.

As for the 13 inches place, there are many people who need a thin laptop to travel. For example I used to work in a not so friendly country and had to travel in and out with very limited equipment. The computer I had was essential but took up a lot of weight. I would have loved to have an air seeing how as I had only a 15 pound weight limit I was allowed to carry.

Other people who travel often or travel with stuff like camera gear appreciate the extra thinness too. The macbook pro 13, while nice, is thicker and heavier and for a lot of uses, slower then the air due to lack of an SSD.

I know your probably wondering why not just use the 11inch air, well as much as I love that machine I need the screen size of the 13 inch. The 13 inch is the lowest I can go and still code on. Its also the lowest I can use programs like Unity, Maya, and ZBrush on.
ok. I understand why you might need it especially when you are often limited to how much you can carry.

chaoticbear
Feb 7, 2011, 05:23 PM
Coming from a 13" MB, I appreciate the weight! It feels much less clunky and more solid than the plastic case. And now the hi-res screen makes the other one look bad in comparison, although that may not be unique for long.

hfg
Feb 7, 2011, 05:29 PM
An 11" inch screen just wont cut it for me - I need a font that's bigger (hey, I'm old) and I need the screen real estate of the 13.


I have both the 11" and 13" and the native font size is essentially the same since the larger screen has higher resolution. When my "old eyes" get tired, the 13" screens higher resolution does allow me to enlarge the font, zoom the screen, or decrease the effective screen resolution so as to view larger characters with similar screen layout as the 11" model which helps a lot!:cool:

-howard

cootersgarage6
Feb 7, 2011, 05:38 PM
Maybe people want the bigger screen? or the SD slot? Duh... Lol

MultiFinder17
Feb 7, 2011, 05:57 PM
I don't think it's just me, but the fact that it's a normal-sized (in the X and Y) laptop and just a smidge under normal-specced on the inside is what originally attracted me to the Air when it was first released. I held onto my trusty old 12" PowerBook for as long as I could, and finally bought an Air near the end of 2009. I love that it has pretty much all of the internal capability of the 13" MacBook Pro (granted, a tad slower, but what's 400MHz these days?) while weighing 1.5 pounds less. I cart my laptop around with me all day, every day, so every little bit of weight in my bag counts. I finally got around to upgrading it with an SSD, and its performance puts my friend's 15" Pro to shame now. I couldn't be happier with this machine, and see myself using it as my main laptop for another several years :)

karlegas
Feb 7, 2011, 06:39 PM
In my case I downgraded if you can call in that way from a MBP 15" to a MBA 13". To me the most attractive was the light weight and the shape. My all family use the laptop and more of the time to watch videos or surfing the internet.

So a big screen is important and high life battery. The other options of the MBPs can live without them.

fyrefly
Feb 7, 2011, 06:42 PM
The 11" has the highest PPI in the entire Mac lineup right now. Without REsolution Independence in OSX, that means all of the UI elements on the 11" Air are tinier than they are on every other machine.

The 13" Air has also been the standard size for the MBA since it was introduced. Just 'cause there's a smaller one, doesn't mean they should kill off the 13" whole-hog. It's not like the discontinued the 15"/17" MBPs when they rebranded the 13".

The 13" Air also gets 2+ hours of battery life more than the 11". So if you need more than ~5 hours of battery life in a day, you may want the 13" which can get 7-8hrs depending on usage.

The 13" also has bigger storage options and higher clocked processors - meaning you can get a MBA that performs almost as much as a 13" MBP. The 11" can't handle the higher temperatures and is saddled with only a 1.4Ghz or 1.6Ghz processor (and the matching drop in performance compared to the 13" MBA).

jhr3uva90
Feb 7, 2011, 06:43 PM
I was impressed with the 11-inch MacBook Air, and then I did the math. An 11-inch MBA with a 64 gig SSD wasn't going to cut it for me, so I looked at the 128-gig SSD version. Turns out, the 13-inch MBA with the 128-gig SSD was only $100. For a "mere" $100 more, I could get a larger screen, a slightly faster processor, longer battery life, and an SD card reader.

So last weekend, I bought the 13-inch. So far, so good.

jamesryanbell
Feb 7, 2011, 08:29 PM
I was impressed with the 11-inch MacBook Air, and then I did the math. An 11-inch MBA with a 64 gig SSD wasn't going to cut it for me, so I looked at the 128-gig SSD version. Turns out, the 13-inch MBA with the 128-gig SSD was only $100. For a "mere" $100 more, I could get a larger screen, a slightly faster processor, longer battery life, and an SD card reader.

So last weekend, I bought the 13-inch. So far, so good.

...and a bigger footprint.

Not saying you made the wrong decision AT ALL, but I'm saying the sheer size it what makes it a double-edged sword. You do get more, but "more" (i.e. size) isn't always better for some.

aristobrat
Feb 7, 2011, 08:56 PM
so you're willing to pay more for lower specs?
Oddly enough, this "lower spec" machine outperforms my 15" i7 MBP.

Turns out that the stuff I do daily (Mail.app, Firefox, iTunes, Aperture, Quicken, VMWare Fusion) has been held back because of disk speed, **not** processor speed.

So now, for me, any notebook without SSD is a lower spec'ed notebook. :eek: :D

sbb155
Feb 7, 2011, 09:03 PM
I dont get the 13" air either, just dont get it with the new 13" MBP coming out soon. BUt to each his own... I like blue, some like red, and some like black.
One thing is for sure - apple knows their (varied) customers.

jhr3uva90
Feb 7, 2011, 09:17 PM
The 11-inch is a wonderful machine. It's just that price wise, the 13-inch is more of a sweet-spot product for me. It might have a slightly larger footprint than the 11, but I don't think it is quite as large as the 13-inch MBP. And even if a new 13-in MBP comes out tomorrow, it will most definitely continue to weight more than the MBA and I bought the Air because I wanted something thin and light.

Also, I just finished writing a quick Word document on the MBA (I'm on it now) and I must say, while 16:9 is a great ratio for movies, I like 13-inch's taller ratio (16:10?) for writing.

aristobrat
Feb 7, 2011, 09:31 PM
I dont get the 13" air either, just dont get it with the new 13" MBP coming out soon.
What is it about the next generation 13" MBP that's causing the questioning of the 13" MBA?

It it supposed to be 35% lighter than the current one? 30% thinner? :confused:

keviikev
Feb 7, 2011, 09:47 PM
What is the point of this thread:rolleyes:

TheRealDamager
Feb 7, 2011, 09:48 PM
I have the 13" Air and my wife has the 13" MBP. When I have to pick up her MBP, it feels like a cement block to me now. I can't imagine having to lug that much weight around for a tiny potential increase in performance.

MultiFinder17
Feb 7, 2011, 09:57 PM
...and a bigger footprint.

Not saying you made the wrong decision AT ALL, but I'm saying the sheer size it what makes it a double-edged sword. You do get more, but "more" (i.e. size) isn't always better for some.

And there are some of us out there that appreciate that little bit more. I can definitely see the allure of the 11" Air, but I would probably never get one.

Funkymonk
Feb 7, 2011, 10:18 PM
I think the air should only be 11" as well. Just makes more sense, but as you can see some people would but the 13"air anyway.

Funkymonk
Feb 7, 2011, 10:19 PM
I have the 13" Air and my wife has the 13" MBP. When I have to pick up her MBP, it feels like a cement block to me now. I can't imagine having to lug that much weight around for a tiny potential increase in performance.

What is your height and weight if you don't mind me asking?

TheRealDamager
Feb 7, 2011, 10:36 PM
6' 2" and 200 pounds.

topmounter
Feb 7, 2011, 11:46 PM
Coming from a 2.4GHz 15" MBP, I'm absolutely loving my 13" MBA. I get the same screen resolution, as good or better performance, I can actually use it in a coach airline seat and I almost forget I'm carrying it through the airport.

I get why people like the 11" MBA, but the screen was just a bit too small for me and I'm not crazy about the disproportionately large bezel.

The 13" MBP definitely needs an update, at the very least it needs the higher resolution screen and a bump up from the c2d processor. For me, in its current state, the 13" MBP is caught in no-mans-land between desktop replacement (15" MBP) and ultra-portable (MBA).

wisty
Feb 8, 2011, 01:18 AM
Look at the Mac Geekbenchs: http://www.primatelabs.ca/geekbench/mac-benchmarks/

The best 13" MacBook Pro 13 gets 3655.

MacBook Air 13" gets 3003. It's not great, but it's middle-of-the-pack.

MacBook Air 11" gets 2280, making it virtually the slowest Intel Mac ever made.

The SSD can make the 11" feel snappy, but it's really underpowered. The 13" MBA is reasonable. The 13" MBP is a little better than the MBA 13", but it wouldn't be that noticiable.

The MBA 11" is a toy, an untraportable second computer, or a main computer for people who don't need performance.

The MBA 13" can almost replace a MBP 13", and it's a great choice for people who need to tote it around.

DeBilbao
Feb 8, 2011, 02:35 AM
I think the air should only be 11". 13" air doesn't make sense to me. Honestly not trying to insult others purchase, just want to understand.

I've just switched from a 13" MacBook Pro to a 13" MacBook Air, and I've tried to summarize all my thoughts in the thread MacBook Air 13" 4GB review... a la bilbaína (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1090824).

I can understand that the 13" Air doesn't make sense to you, but if you read my review and many others opinion in this thread, you can see that the 13" Air makes a lot of sense to others and has a market on its own. That's why Apple sell them.

ABG
Feb 8, 2011, 03:11 AM
I've just switched from a 13" MacBook Pro to a 13" MacBook Air, and I've tried to summarize all my thoughts in the thread MacBook Air 13" 4GB review... a la bilbaína (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1090824).

I can understand that the 13" Air doesn't make sense to you, but if you read my review and many others opinion in this thread, you can see that the 13" Air makes a lot of sense to others and has a market on its own. That's why Apple sell them.

I've also switched from a 13" MBP (2.26) to a 13" MBA ultimate. I carry the MBA everywhere (along with the iPad), whereas I'd decide on a case by case basis on the MBP. End result the MBP cost less, but I also used it less, so value for money is an important point.

Besides if you are deeply worried about how much things cost then a MBP probably doesn't make sense against a 13" PC...

Xeperu
Feb 8, 2011, 04:30 AM
I hate the MBA 13" I truly utterly hate it!

Why? I got one, and it will force me to buy thin laptops for the rest of my life. I refuse to buy anything fat like the MBP again. Ever.

Funny thing also is that during a lecture I gave earlier I saw 6 MBA 13" among 28 students (about 15 use laptops). I found this curious so I asked them (a nice bridge to talk about Apple marketing strategies). The general consensus was that they bought it because it was so thin and so comfortable to work on. 4 had switched from the 13" MBP, 1 came from a windows laptop and 1 from a netbook.

They considered it powerful enough for their needs (business students, no hardcore computing needed, data analysis is done on faculty servers).

(In essence, I, and many others love it more than any laptop we've ever had before).

kx22
Feb 8, 2011, 04:40 AM
If there was no 13" it wouldnt have been Air. Then it would have been Macbook Net. Like in Netbook. The 13" was a must. Steve always said that Netbooks sucks. So if he solely offer the 11 inch he is going to bite himself. Now its just a little Air. The base was always the 13".

But I use the 13" as a main station and I really like it. Can play little games on it and the F1 button is of normal size. The keyboard on the 11" looks like an calculator. If there was an 15" Air I would ahve consider it too. Its just the looks that i want to pay more money for.

thetruth1985
Feb 8, 2011, 05:54 AM
I've just noticed that in the majority of these threads, people are switching from the 13 inch MBP to the MBA. The ones that switch from the 15/17 inch models are few and far between. I have a 15 inch i5 with 128gb SSD and 8gb ram. I use it for school mostly and while I have thought about getting rid of it for the 13 inch MBA, I think that it would not be a good decision performance wise. My wife on the other hand loves the 11 inch although she just uses it for internet browsing and word documents.

torbjoern
Feb 8, 2011, 06:26 AM
I hate the MBA 13" I truly utterly hate it!

Why? I got one, and it will force me to buy thin laptops for the rest of my life. I refuse to buy anything fat like the MBP again. Ever.

Funny thing also is that during a lecture I gave earlier I saw 6 MBA 13" among 28 students (about 15 use laptops). I found this curious so I asked them (a nice bridge to talk about Apple marketing strategies). The general consensus was that they bought it because it was so thin and so comfortable to work on. 4 had switched from the 13" MBP, 1 came from a windows laptop and 1 from a netbook.

They considered it powerful enough for their needs (business students, no hardcore computing needed, data analysis is done on faculty servers).

(In essence, I, and many others love it more than any laptop we've ever had before).

I can add to that.

A couple of years ago I went from a chunky, heavy Asus-laptop to a small, light MacBook alu (predecessor of the MBP 13"). The difference was huge in screen quality, pixel density and snappiness. I felt that I could suddenly bring the computer with me anywhere. It would easily slide in and out of the sleeve which I just kept in my backpack, it would wake up quickly from standby/sleep, battery life was twice as high as I was used to and the entire computer gave me a real WOW-feeling. There was no way I would go back.

Now I have the exact same experience again, going from the MB-alu to the MB Air.

Boston007
Feb 8, 2011, 06:45 AM
an 11" inch screen just wont cut it for me - i need a font that's bigger (hey, i'm old) and i need the screen real estate of the 13.

In my opinion, the difference between the two is huge, especially if, like me, you carry your laptop to and from work everyday on a train and traveling all over the place. In my eyes the 13" mba is the perfect compromise - lose lots of weight and thinkness without losing the screen real estate.

what he said

uniforms
Feb 8, 2011, 07:09 AM
For me it's all about the weight!

Battery life is expectable, but would like longer. There is a big difference between the 11" air and 13" air. I have had the ultimate in both, and by far the 13" blows anything away. It's faster than my 13" MBP 2.66. That SSD really helps.

I also feel if you look how many computers apple was selling 10 years ago verses today, it's more than doubled, if not tripled. That being said, more choices lead to more sales. People need options. Having more choices will help Apple get to that 25% market share. That's pretty incredible.

Alfieg
Feb 8, 2011, 07:14 AM
An 11" inch screen just wont cut it for me - I need a font that's bigger (hey, I'm old) and I need the screen real estate of the 13.

Are you zooming in on everything then? The pixel pitch is about the same so fonts will appear the same size on both machines.

Shoot
Feb 8, 2011, 07:27 AM
I purchased the mba 13" top-spec about 2 weeks ago new for a good price.
I've always been on desktops, this is my first portable and I honestly LOVE IT.

I have not seen any performance issues, i run a lot of stuff at the same time and it doesn't even flinch. The 13" pros are too heavy to throw in my bag comfortably, the screens are terrible comparatively and they run way too hot on my lap. the mba also has the SSD which is lightning fast (to put it in a pro would cost way too much for me). boot time is about 10 seconds, compared to a minute on a friend's whitebook. its such a lovely machine. light, fast, easy.
I have not used a cd drive in about 5 years, i love this machine.

Consultant
Feb 8, 2011, 07:28 AM
Oddly enough, this "lower spec" machine outperforms my 15" i7 MBP.

Turns out that the stuff I do daily (Mail.app, Firefox, iTunes, Aperture, Quicken, VMWare Fusion) has been held back because of disk speed, **not** processor speed.

So now, for me, any notebook without SSD is a lower spec'ed notebook. :eek: :D

The MBA is more snappy than my 17" MBP. For most people the MBA is faster due to SSD.

trip1ex
Feb 8, 2011, 07:35 AM
Same footprint as 13" mbp, just thinner.

it's higher resolution yeah but I think after the update coming soon 13" will get that too
ssd could be put in the mbp too

I think the air should only be 11". 13" air doesn't make sense to me. Honestly not trying to insult others purchase, just want to understand.

13" MBA is tomorrow's 13" MBP.

It's the laptop of the future today.

TheRealDamager
Feb 8, 2011, 09:40 AM
Are you zooming in on everything then? The pixel pitch is about the same so fonts will appear the same size on both machines.

Yes, I do some zooming, and when things are zoomed a bit, the extra screen real estate helps to avoid having to slide around the screen so much.

jamesryanbell
Feb 8, 2011, 10:42 AM
The 11.6" Ultimate is still where it's at in my opinion. The smaller footprint makes a huge difference (especially if you travel a lot). Still has 4GB; still has 128GB SSD (good enough); still has a fast enough processor for 90% of what the average person does. ...AND it's small and weighs almost nothing.

Drezin
Feb 8, 2011, 01:18 PM
Yes, the MBP is great and i will get one as soon as they remove the optical drive and make it lighter... around 1kg is fine... oh wait!

stockscalper
Feb 8, 2011, 03:40 PM
The 13" MBA has the same screen ratio as the 15" MBP and I have replaced carrying a thicker, heavier 15" MBP with me. The 11" can't replace the 15" as its screen is too small and it's underpowered for business. Maybe it's ok as a note taking computer, but if that was all I needed I would simply travel with an iPad. To me the 11" is the unit that Apple shouldn't have made.

topmounter
Feb 8, 2011, 10:46 PM
I've just noticed that in the majority of these threads, people are switching from the 13 inch MBP to the MBA. The ones that switch from the 15/17 inch models are few and far between. I have a 15 inch i5 with 128gb SSD and 8gb ram. I use it for school mostly and while I have thought about getting rid of it for the 13 inch MBA, I think that it would not be a good decision performance wise. My wife on the other hand loves the 11 inch although she just uses it for internet browsing and word documents.



I think the majority of folks that buy the 15" and 17" MBP are buying a desktop replacement... I know that is why I bought my 15" MBP and if I hadn't bought an iMac in the interim, I would have probably bought another 15" MBP rather than the 13" MBA.

hawse771
Feb 8, 2011, 10:50 PM
Honestly I don't get the 11" IMO. The 13" is perfect for someone who wants a laptop with useable screen real-estate but who doesn't want/need an optical drive and doesn't want to lug around a 5lb laptop. My fiancee loves her 13" MBA and honestly I would have gotten a 13" MBA instead of my 13" MBP but the $999 deal was too good to pass up at Microcenter

ishopukisfake
Feb 9, 2011, 12:50 PM
The TS answered their own question really, the reasons for the mba 13 are it has ssd which is faster and a higher resolution screen, plus it is lighter and quieter.

Its the future of laptops as applications and media are switching to online file transfer (legally)

One of the main things for me is quietness of use and the flesh storage makes the machine almost silent for general usage, also there is very little power bleed when you shut the lid which lets you stop working one day, then pick up the machine a day later and it still has a good charge in it, unlike the pros which drain quite quick when on standby.

I dont know how long apple will include cd drives, its hard to see them phasing them out on the regular macbook and pro as many people still want to use dvd and cd apps, but in the long run cd's are going the way of vsh and floppy drives and that little bit of lightness, thinness and quietness makes for a nice advance in computing.


The next thing they need to work on is more efficient energy/ battery storage, even using different materials which hold charge longer or a different portable storage system altogether. Also the elemination of any type of fan from the machine and components which are heat resistent would be a great improvement and mean total silent operation at all times.

foiden
Feb 9, 2011, 02:23 PM
That would be nice. If only good competitive CPUs actually could run cool. It seems unless you drop to old CPU technologies, the heat generated always needs a fan. Something akin to the single core 1GHz speeds like the iPad/iPhone 4.

aniketroxx
Feb 10, 2011, 06:57 AM
Oddly enough, this "lower spec" machine outperforms my 15" i7 MBP.

Turns out that the stuff I do daily (Mail.app, Firefox, iTunes, Aperture, Quicken, VMWare Fusion) has been held back because of disk speed, **not** processor speed.

So now, for me, any notebook without SSD is a lower spec'ed notebook. :eek: :D

Hi i just want to ask that if i can do editing with aperture on MBA 13'' base model with 2gb ram smoothly :confused:

ArmCortexA8
Feb 10, 2011, 07:13 AM
Hi all, below is my dilemma

I up till about 3 days ago had a MacBook Pro 13" which I upgraded the RAM to 8GB, and installed my Corsair X-128GB SSD (Indilinx Controller) and this whole system literally took 3 seconds to boot after the "loading" icon on a cold boot - I was literally in shock and this was everything loaded.

I decided to sell my MBP and naturally reinstalled the factory drive, and got more than I paid for it. This MBP was 2.4GHZ C2D. I then decided to go for the MacBook Air 13" 128GB / 4GB RAM / 1.8GHZ, and the thought wait a minute this laptop is 600mhz slower. I also then read that these MBA 13" were taking over 20 seconds to boot from cold, which is a lot slower than my Corsair X-128 SSD I had in my MBP.

This then got me thinking, maybe the SSD controller on the MBA is not as good as my Corsair X-128, hence the longer boot times. I also discovered the MBA only has a 800Mhz FSB yet the memory is 1066MHZ, so this may also cause a bottleneck.

1. Will I notice a difference between my MBP 2.4GHZ CPU and the MBA 1.8GHz CPU?

2. Should the MBA boot as quickly (quicker with less data) than my Corsair X-128 SSD?

3. I will use the MBA only for what I used my MBP with - email / office / outlook / dvd ripping, itunes etc.

SUMMARY: Im concerned that since Im use to the speed of my old MBP with the Corsair X-128SSD, that if this MBA doesnt load as quickly then I will be dissapointed. I also chose the 13" as my MBP was 13" and I dont think I could handle going smaller than this size. NOTE: I would have preferred the 2.1GHZ CPU, but on the Apple Australia store you have to purchase the 256GB SSD model, then upgrade for $150 to the 2.1GHz plus upgrade the RAM from 2GB to 4GB, which means it would equal about AU $2,300.

KPOM
Feb 10, 2011, 07:34 AM
I decided to sell my MBP and naturally reinstalled the factory drive, and got more than I paid for it. This MBP was 2.4GHZ C2D. I then decided to go for the MacBook Air 13" 128GB / 4GB RAM / 1.8GHZ, and the thought wait a minute this laptop is 600mhz slower. I also then read that these MBA 13" were taking over 20 seconds to boot from cold, which is a lot slower than my Corsair X-128 SSD I had in my MBP.
This then got me thinking, maybe the SSD controller on the MBA is not as good as my Corsair X-128, hence the longer boot times. I also discovered the MBA only has a 800Mhz FSB yet the memory is 1066MHZ, so this may also cause a bottleneck.


3. I will use the MBA only for what I used my MBP with - email / office / outlook / dvd ripping, itunes etc.


I'm not sure where you are getting the 20 second figure for booting cold. It takes mine about 14 seconds. Also, the 13" models have a 1066MHz bus. The 11" has the 800MHz bus.

If you are ripping DVDs you might be better off with the next Pro since the MacBook Air requires an external optical drive.

ArmCortexA8
Feb 10, 2011, 07:40 AM
I'm not sure where you are getting the 20 second figure for booting cold. It takes mine about 14 seconds. Also, the 13" models have a 1066MHz bus. The 11" has the 800MHz bus.

If you are ripping DVDs you might be better off with the next Pro since the MacBook Air requires an external optical drive.

Thanks for the FSB info. I have already received the MacBook Air Superdrive for DVD ripping, and my MBA 13" is ordered via CTO. As for the 14 seconds, this still pales in comparison to my MBP 13" boot time with the Corsair drive I had installed - longest was 5 seconds to boot from the "loading" screen.

DarwinOSX
Oct 26, 2011, 07:47 PM
Same footprint as 13" mbp, just thinner.

it's higher resolution yeah but I think after the update coming soon 13" will get that too
ssd could be put in the mbp too

I think the air should only be 11". 13" air doesn't make sense to me. Honestly not trying to insult others purchase, just want to understand.

The 13" MBP will go away.

Stetrain
Oct 26, 2011, 08:27 PM
I think the real question is "What is the point of the 13" MBP?"

The 13" MBP is heavier and thicker than the 13" Air and slower in most light-usage scenarios since it doesn't come standard with an SSD.

The 13" MBP has a faster processor than the Air but the same integrated GPU.


If you really need a Pro machine with a dedicated GPU you have to get the 15" MBP anyway, the 13" MBP has really been a consumer level machine since it was introduced and the 13" MBA takes care of that market segment very well.


I think either the 13" MBP will go away or it will drop the DVD drive and get a dedicated GPU and high-res and antiglare screen options.

Risasi
Oct 26, 2011, 10:22 PM
I think either the 13" MBP will go away or it will drop the DVD drive and get a dedicated GPU and high-res and antiglare screen options.

LOL, you just described the 13" MBA...

But I agree, I think the 13" MBP will go away. Apple has always tried to consolidate to fewer product variances, not more (the caveat being they aren't spinning off something new, like the Air). It's part of how they become efficient in maximizing their profit margin and streamlining production.
I do see the appeal the 13" MBP has though, it fits a price niche and it was a cheap machine for them to make along with the others. But yeah, I can't imagine that their product line will look different than 11"/13" MBA, 15"/17" redesigned MBP. Still keeping all the Pro qualities; dedicated GPU, faster CPU, higher res, etc.

I'm hoping both the 13" MBA and 15" MBP come out at the same time, so I can decide between the two. I already have a 2011 13" Air my wife uses. I could see the new 13" Air being "my" laptop. Or picking a more powerful 15" Pro and setting up both machines so we can use them interchangeably.

iTouch
Oct 27, 2011, 01:04 AM
I went from a 13" Macbook Pro to Air. I'm very happy since this is my on the go laptop. Don't even miss the Super Drive.

vitzr
Oct 27, 2011, 04:35 AM
Anyone who does the research prior to deciding will see why _both_ the 11" & 13" MBA's are stellar machines. As are the 15" & 17" MBP's.

In my case I do so much work on a Mac Laptop, I have one of each. Frankly if I had to choose just one, it'd be nearly impossible simply because they are each unique & very useful in their own way. My work is so varied and so demanding when it comes to resources the quad core 15" & 17" MBP's are invaluable.

Conversely when I travel, which can be internationally & quite frequently the MBA's are priceless.

It's a matter of really thinking it through and choosing what suits you the best.

KnightWRX
Oct 27, 2011, 07:16 AM
The 13" MBP will go away.

What is the point of resurrecting a 6 months old thread to say just that ? :rolleyes:

Stetrain
Oct 28, 2011, 04:32 PM
LOL, you just described the 13" MBA...


No, the Macbook Air doesn't have a dedicated GPU and has a ULV processor. My thought was that the 13" MBP could keep the same form factor but drop the DVD drive so that it could have similar internals to the 15" MBP.

Right now the 13" Macbook Pro only has Intel integrated graphics. I understand that this is mostly to do with Intel's GPU politics but it is kinda silly.

NutsNGum
Oct 28, 2011, 05:52 PM
Right now the 13" Macbook Pro only has Intel integrated graphics. I understand that this is mostly to do with Intel's GPU politics but it is kinda silly.

It's approximately nothing to do with Intel's GPU politics, and everything to do with Apple pushing you to buy the more expensive 15" model.

lcseds
Oct 28, 2011, 07:50 PM
Ditched my MBP for the MBA. Weight, size, SSD. If you have to ask "what's the point", then you are not comparing the different mac models. I will *never* give up my 13" air unless a 15" comes along. then I'll consider it.
So I have to ask, what is the point of the 13" mbp?

kulimer
Oct 30, 2011, 02:48 AM
what's the point of 11' MBA. It's too small.

GWagon
Oct 30, 2011, 08:42 AM
what's the point of 11' MBA. It's too small.

For YOU? That's the good thing about having options - everyone has their personal needs and can choose the best option which fits them.

I personally went for the 13" as i needed the battery life when I'm out and about, and thought there was no point getting the 11" while having to lug around the power cable, which pretty much negates the added portability of the 11".

It is also my main computer, so I felt that I needed the bigger screen. For me, the 13" was the perfect option with all things considered.

But, as it has been proven in this thread, other people have preference in the 11". It's up to YOU to decided the pros and cons of each machine and go for the one that fits your needs best.

Cordless_Drill
Oct 30, 2011, 09:59 AM
I've been so tempted to go with an MBA over an MPB for the reasons many of you all listed above -- specs are overrated in my world -- but I cannot deal with fan noise.

I hate it soooo much.

If I watch video on a current-gen MBA, the fan is going to run ad infinitum. Right?

bobr1952
Oct 30, 2011, 10:02 AM
Same footprint as 13" mbp, just thinner.

it's higher resolution yeah but I think after the update coming soon 13" will get that too
ssd could be put in the mbp too

I think the air should only be 11". 13" air doesn't make sense to me. Honestly not trying to insult others purchase, just want to understand.

Why didn't you mention the biggest and most obvious difference--the weight?

TheJing
Oct 30, 2011, 10:56 AM
what's the point of 11' MBA. It's too small.

Too small for what? It's bigger than your phone. Does that make your phone "too" small as well?

Queen6
Oct 30, 2011, 11:43 AM
I've been so tempted to go with an MBA over an MPB for the reasons many of you all listed above -- specs are overrated in my world -- but I cannot deal with fan noise.

I hate it soooo much.

If I watch video on a current-gen MBA, the fan is going to run ad infinitum. Right?

Entirely depends on the media you are playing, I playback MKV`s up to 14Gb and equally high bit rates and the fan rarely breaks 3K, flash based will be a different story, then again Flash 11 is a far better than previous iterations. My 13", i5, 256Gb MBA runs cool and quiet...

vitzr
Oct 30, 2011, 11:52 AM
Same footprint as 13" mbp, just thinner.

it's higher resolution yeah but I think after the update coming soon 13" will get that too
ssd could be put in the mbp too

I think the air should only be 11". 13" air doesn't make sense to me. Honestly not trying to insult others purchase, just want to understand.

That's easy to answer.

My 13" MBA is one of my favorite Macs. Even though I have 15 & 17" MBP's and tried an 11" MBA for a month, it's all about what fits each users needs.

I have very distinct uses for each of my Macs. But that's only because I am an engineer with a very wide & varied workflow. I also travel a lot by air, so easy portability for those times is important.

Apple does a good job of identifying the various needs and building models to suit.

Obvious the 13" has a huge following & fits many users needs well. Apple sales reflect it.

Confuzzzed
Oct 30, 2011, 11:53 AM
Once I decided carrying a full sized laptop was not for me, the MBA was the obvious choice. Have owned both the 11' (2010) and 13" (2011) and for me the battery life was the swinging factor. Until the 11' gets at least 6 hours, I can't go back. However I miss its unrivalled portability. And no. I didn't ever miss the extra real estate particularly after Lion

WarpSpawn
Oct 30, 2011, 12:04 PM
I don't really want to start another thread about this but I was wondering, would those with experience of both the 13" MBP and MBA recommend the MBA even to one who does not need the portability so much? Where it will spend most of its time on a desk, being used around the house but rarely leaving it?

I realise the key strength of it is the thin and light thing it has going on but is the higher res screen worth the extra cost, not to mention the sacrifice in storage space?

Predicted usage will largely consist of the usual web browsing, word processing, maybe a bit of coding (I don't at the moment but am considering learning some), occasional video playback and playing older and/or less demanding games. If I could afford it, first choice would possibly be a 15" MBP as this would serve me better as a desktop replacement but I cannot really. One reservation I have about the MBA is the 128GB version I would probably have to settle for is maybe a little small for possible Bootcamp setup, though some storage problems could be alleviated with a network hard drive around the house. Probably purchase just after Xmas and I don't think I can be bothered to wait to see what the next MBPs have to offer, unless solid rumours suggest Feb at the latest.

LordJim
Oct 30, 2011, 12:04 PM
I've been so tempted to go with an MBA over an MPB for the reasons many of you all listed above -- specs are overrated in my world -- but I cannot deal with fan noise.

I hate it soooo much.

If I watch video on a current-gen MBA, the fan is going to run ad infinitum. Right?

The only time I've really heard my fan going is when I was playing PixelJunk Monsters Online (a fairly intensive Facebook game, I suppose) and the MBA was sitting on a blanket. This thing is extremely quiet.

Cordless_Drill
Oct 30, 2011, 01:16 PM
Entirely depends on the media you are playing, I playback MKV`s up to 14Gb and equally high bit rates and the fan rarely breaks 3K, flash based will be a different story, then again Flash 11 is a far better than previous iterations. My 13", i5, 256Gb MBA runs cool and quiet...

Thank you!

(And thanks to LordJim as well!)

Spitroast Panda
Oct 30, 2011, 01:23 PM
if anything, what is the point in the 11" having a 64GB SSD?

ZBoater
Oct 30, 2011, 01:30 PM
What's the point of this thread? :rolleyes:

The 11" is just too small and cramped to do any real work anyway...

tinkori
Oct 30, 2011, 01:33 PM
I had a decision to make 2 mo ago: MBA or MBP 13+ssd+8gb and I chose the latter because
* Needed 8GB RAM so that my apps dont swap to disk + can run a VM to test things when I need to
* Could upgrade SSD easily later (right now it has a 120GB SSD)

But I would buy a MBA in a heartbeat if it gave me a 8GB option. I can still live with 128GB SSD but not with 4GB RAM for work. For casual users, 4GB is more than enough. Everyone has different criteria and its good to have a choice over different models.

convergent
Oct 30, 2011, 03:58 PM
I had a decision to make 2 mo ago: MBA or MBP 13+ssd+8gb and I chose the latter because
* Needed 8GB RAM so that my apps dont swap to disk + can run a VM to test things when I need to
* Could upgrade SSD easily later (right now it has a 120GB SSD)

But I would buy a MBA in a heartbeat if it gave me a 8GB option. I can still live with 128GB SSD but not with 4GB RAM for work. For casual users, 4GB is more than enough. Everyone has different criteria and its good to have a choice over different models.

Very few people will have any problem running their stuff on a MBA with 4G of RAM. When its swapping to SSD, you do not have the same slow down that you get with a traditional hard drive.

I run Lotus Notes, MS Office 2011 (all 3 apps with several open documents each), DevonThink Pro Office (with several GB of open databases), Omnifocus, Mail, Safari with 10-12 open tabs, Parallels Desktop running a Windows 7 virtual machine, Adium, iTunes, and sometimes run Lightroom and/or Photoshop CS5 with all that also running at the same time. I also have Symantec End Point Protection and Filevault going. I've not seen any degradation when all this stuff is going at the same time. I doubt the average user is going to run more than that, and the MBA is blazing fast with this stack of stuff going.

You can't judge RAM needs the same way when you are using an SSD.

Stingray454
Oct 30, 2011, 05:29 PM
I run Lotus Notes, MS Office 2011 (all 3 apps with several open documents each), DevonThink Pro Office (with several GB of open databases), Omnifocus, Mail, Safari with 10-12 open tabs, Parallels Desktop running a Windows 7 virtual machine, Adium, iTunes, and sometimes run Lightroom and/or Photoshop CS5 with all that also running at the same time. I also have Symantec End Point Protection and Filevault going. I've not seen any degradation when all this stuff is going at the same time. I doubt the average user is going to run more than that, and the MBA is blazing fast with this stack of stuff going.

Ok, the above WORKS, but I'm guessing it is swapping like mad. With more memory (8Gb minimum in your case, preferably more) you would probably notice a performance boost, and more importantly, stop the excessive wear on your SSD. Personally I'd pay a bit more for 8Gb than have the computer constantly swapping any day.

subzerORz
Oct 30, 2011, 06:53 PM
had considered 15"MBP before i purchased my 256GB 13" MBA,
seriously, the light weight and thinness gives you true portability,
talking about carrying it around in the house, sitting on the couch/bed;
or take it out for work or even just for a ride,
you won't feel like your hands is going to fall off after minutes hold it up,

it can fulfill any basic demand, be it editing/coding/browsing/gaming (*note that i do mean BASIC), it gives everyone an option to have an OSX in our hands when we need it to be there,
any higher requirements on display size/processing power/storage space,
iMac and MBP will be your better choice i guess,

what it gives is what it was meant for: portability, thin and light
don't expect a Mac Pro out of a MBA, we're not there yet...

ZBoater
Oct 30, 2011, 08:04 PM
Ok, the above WORKS, but I'm guessing it is swapping like mad. With more memory (8Gb minimum in your case, preferably more) you would probably notice a performance boost, and more importantly, stop the excessive wear on your SSD. Personally I'd pay a bit more for 8Gb than have the computer constantly swapping any day.

If it runs, it runs. I have a similar setup and 4GB is more than most mortals will need. And the portability of the MBA trumps that potential performance boost. What good is the boost if I left my laptop at home? :p

Yinmay
Oct 30, 2011, 08:12 PM
I agree with you to a certain extent, especially on the same footprint argument. But I think it's the Macbook Pro 13 that has no point rather than the air.

I would go further and question the point of the 11" too. Ideally they should make an Air with a 13.3" screen fit in a smaller footprint thanks to an almost frameless design, replacing both the current 11" and 13" Airs.

Definition of the perfect ultraportable size = the smallest footprint that can house a full keyboard and the largest 16:10 screen you can fit in this footprint.

revelated
Oct 30, 2011, 11:00 PM
Lack of SD card = simply unacceptable.

I admit, I much prefer to have ports built into my device, not having to carry external accessories, especially at Apple's price points.

Extra battery is key as well. Some may not care - I do. In fact, battery life is the first thing I check for in any mobile device I buy these days.

Every machine I have must be a powerhouse. Period. No compromises. The 13" Air pales in comparison to my i7 17", but that's okay - everything pales in comparison to "The Big Apple". The Air manages to run VMs fine (SSD), and deal with most basic applications such as Office and whatnot, and while the battery does take somewhat of a hit, it does get the job done at the core.

And yes, I've owned the 11" Air and yes, I did like its form factor. But it's too much compromise.


Very few people will have any problem running their stuff on a MBA with 4G of RAM. When its swapping to SSD, you do not have the same slow down that you get with a traditional hard drive.

...

You can't judge RAM needs the same way when you are using an SSD.

The goal is to prevent paging. Even if it's an SSD, RAM is still going to provide superior performance to paging. RAM is connected through a dedicated slot, not shared with your file access, OS access, etc. It's one of the reasons I still prefer at least the current Pro over the Air for day-to-day usage - it's got 8GB of RAM and I could go to 16GB if I were a really heavy user.

The other thing to consider is that on the Pro, should the drive die, I can replace it myself. With the Air, you're returning the whole unit. Yes, there's AppleCare, but think of how long you'll be without your machine. Versus the Pro where if my Samsung SSD dies, I can drive right down to Fry's and get another one and be up and running again in two hours. That time savings and retained productivity is well worth my preference for the Pro. Some people aren't thinking of every factor when they're buying the Air.

sporadicMotion
Oct 30, 2011, 11:27 PM
Wirelessly posted (iPhone 4: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A334 Safari/7534.48.3)

I pull this thing out of my laptop bag many times a day and it spends a good deal of time slung over my shoulder. I wanted the resolution and the form factor factor works very well. It replaced my '11 13" Pro and I found the performance difference to be so negligable yet the state of my neck at the end of the day has greatly improved. I wish there was a built in Ethernet port sometimes, but it's no deal breaker.

One perspective.

Stetrain
Oct 31, 2011, 09:35 AM
Lack of SD card = simply unacceptable.

I admit, I much prefer to have ports built into my device, not having to carry external accessories, especially at Apple's price points.


The 13" Air has an SD card slot.

convergent
Oct 31, 2011, 10:47 AM
Ok, the above WORKS, but I'm guessing it is swapping like mad. With more memory (8Gb minimum in your case, preferably more) you would probably notice a performance boost, and more importantly, stop the excessive wear on your SSD. Personally I'd pay a bit more for 8Gb than have the computer constantly swapping any day.

I've worked in the computer industry for 30 years and I'm well aware of what paging is, and how it works. When paging to a spinning disk, its a big performance hit. When paging to SSD, its not. Who cares if its paging or not if its blazing fast, which it is. I've intentionally tried to get it to show lagging from paging, to no avail. I've repeatedly jumped from application to application forcing it to have to expose the full gamut in a short period of time and still get what seems like instance response.

If there were an 8GB option, I would have probably ordered it.. why not? But, I'm not going to sit around waiting. As soon as 8GB is available, there will be people that say they want to wait for 16GB. Bottom line is you have a choice... the MBA with 4GB and smaller/lighter footprint, or the MBP with up to 16GB which is going to be faster (assuming you also have an SSD installed) and have more expansion. I've had a 15" MBP for 4 years and wanted something smaller/lighter/faster. The MBA is that. Its night and day faster than my MBP which had more RAM. I'll also add that pricing out a MBP with the same SSD and more RAM is a lot more expensive machine.

WarpSpawn
Oct 31, 2011, 10:58 AM
I wonder, would anyone be willing to comment on my question regarding the 13" Air versus 13" pro for use around the house, where portability is not so key?

I find myself kind of drawn towards the Air for the higher res screen and claims of snappier performance for many day to day tasks, even though it means a higher up front cost and a few other sacrifices.

NutsNGum
Oct 31, 2011, 02:11 PM
I wonder, would anyone be willing to comment on my question regarding the 13" Air versus 13" pro for use around the house, where portability is not so key?

I find myself kind of drawn towards the Air for the higher res screen and claims of snappier performance for many day to day tasks, even though it means a higher up front cost and a few other sacrifices.

Air. Everytime.

Better screen res.
More comfortable to use the keyboard due to the tapered edge.
Feels a fair bit smoother in general use.

There really isn't much in the way of sacrifice other than storage space, some processing speed is lost, but the i5 boosts up to 2.3 with both cores active so the likelihood is that you'd notice next to no difference in terms of performance CPU-wise.

Go Air, man. You won't regret it.

revelated
Oct 31, 2011, 11:34 PM
The 13" Air has an SD card slot.

I understand that. My post was in response to this notion that the 11" Air is a superior machine.