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View Full Version : I am taking a serious look at XOOM -Apple App Store Policy Fallout Thread




faith4more
Feb 17, 2011, 10:22 AM
Apple continues to tighten control. I am a big Apple product user. Everyone in my family has an ios device. But this subscription policy just irks me and makes me wonder about future. I don't want to be locked into Apple forever but they continue to push down that road.

For the first time I am taking a serious look at Xoom. Honeycomb looks great. This is the first time I have looked away from ipad.

Let the fallout begin and the fanboys defend.



MacDawg
Feb 17, 2011, 10:23 AM
Everyone makes their own choices on devices for various reasons
If Xoom and Honeycomb meet your needs better, then you should by all means go that route

SDub90
Feb 17, 2011, 10:25 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

I'm in the same boat. Android devices are starting to look a lot better to me now. I think my iPhone 4 will be my last iOS device.

scottmizo
Feb 17, 2011, 10:30 AM
I do not know if Apple's subscription policy is "fair" and
I don't care. I do know that I will be delaying all Apple purchases
(iMac and iPad 2) until July. If the likes of Amazon and Netflix
leave the App Store, so do I.

clyde2801
Feb 17, 2011, 10:32 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

I'm in the same boat. Android devices are starting to look a lot better to me now. I think my iPhone 4 will be my last iOS device.


I think if nothing else, inertia will cause many people to stay with their ios devices. I think two things would have to happen for a mass migration:

1. Competitors would have to release hardware and an app ecosystem that would match or better the ios experience at the same or better price point; and,

2. Apple would have to make a bone headed decision so onerous and egregious that it would cause millions of users to look down at their ios devices and scream in unison, "WHAT THE :censored:?!?".

Otherwise, probably not gonna happen.

Mitchrapp
Feb 17, 2011, 10:36 AM
I'm not an Apple guy, first apple product I ever owned was my iPad. I use it about 10-12 a day for 10 months now. I have an Android phone, HTC Incredible -- which was my first android product I've owned.

I've always been the "I buy what I think is best at the time" guy. So I'm really hoping I get to see the iPad 2 specs before next week and pricing but ATM, I looking at buying the Xoom. I've always liked the Marketplace over Apples app store -- I'm a big fan of Not being locked into what can be put on the market. And able to buy something and test for a day and then return it for full value, that's huge for me.

Nonetheless, I hope the Tablet market starts to heat up. We need competition.

maflynn
Feb 17, 2011, 10:43 AM
You need to pick the device/platform that best suits your needs.

I've found android to have some very good positives and some very frustrating negatives.

My biggest complaint so far is the glacial pace motorola takes in providing updates. Android 2.2 was released in May, the DroidX didn't see it until the last day of september. Even then it was incredibly buggy, and I had to wait 3 more months to get the bug fix. I'm still waiting for 2.3

While iOS is a closed marketplace, from a consumer's perspective its a better marketplace then google's as you have company over-seeing and approving what can be sold. The downside is that you have to live within their eco-system.

If you're heavily involved with apple products you may be dissapointed in getting your stuff so easily synced. Its doable, but no where near the ease and simplicity of apple

Do I sound like I'm now an android hater or an apple fanboy? I'm not just someone who's been using android for a while. I like the platform, but you need to choose wisely. I loved my nexus one, because it was rootable, and got updates fast. I'm disappointed in my Droidx because its buggy and moto is slow to update it.

walkie
Feb 17, 2011, 10:46 AM
I'm also planning on buying an Android based tab, not only for Apple policy but after being using the iPad for 8 months I see that the competition is offering all the functionality iPad lacks adding even two times more RAM memory than the iPad2 is rumored to have, not to mention, UBS ports, SD card ports, Flash etc. and a very important feature: a "file system", is just stupid the way iPad stores files, and I don't want to rely on a jailbreaking to have a such basic feature...

alex2792
Feb 17, 2011, 10:46 AM
Welcome to the real world lol. I still love my MBP but it will be a cold day in hell before I buy another iOS product. Apple's arrogance and greed know no bounds and it will come back to bite them big time.

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk

TJRiver
Feb 17, 2011, 11:07 AM
Apple continues to tighten control. I am a big Apple product user. Everyone in my family has an ios device. But this subscription policy just irks me and makes me wonder about future. I don't want to be locked into Apple forever but they continue to push down that road.

For the first time I am taking a serious look at Xoom. Honeycomb looks great. This is the first time I have looked away from ipad.

Let the fallout begin and the fanboys defend.

So, I assume you do not use Amazon's Kindle e-reader or the Nook e-reader (or their iOS programs) for the exact same reason? Publishers to Barnes and Nobles service end up with anywhere from 60% to 40% of the sale price of their own content. WTF indeed.

Traditional publishers extract similar costs to publish traditional old school content. Strangely enough, the 30% "Apple tax" to play in the App Store does not seem to be killing off competition either....

Enjoy that (as of today) unreleased, unreviewed piece of Moto hardware, I am sure it will be just as cutting edge as their cell phones. Not a fanboy, I just enjoy the knee jerk reaction to anything Apple does......:D

Arnieaz
Feb 17, 2011, 11:12 AM
I do not know if Apple's subscription policy is "fair" and
I don't care. I do know that I will be delaying all Apple purchases
(iMac and iPad 2) until July. If the likes of Amazon and Netflix
leave the App Store, so do I.

+1 My exact feelings and response!
My wife and I have 2 iPhones and 2 ipad's. Also a MacBook pro and an iMac!
But, we also have purchased hundreds of kindle books! They come first :apple:

blackNBUK
Feb 17, 2011, 11:22 AM
I've always been the "I buy what I think is best at the time" guy. So I'm really hoping I get to see the iPad 2 specs before next week and pricing but ATM, I looking at buying the Xoom. I've always liked the Marketplace over Apples app store -- I'm a big fan of Not being locked into what can be put on the market. And able to buy something and test for a day and then return it for full value, that's huge for me.

That advantage seems to have mostly gone now as the refund period has been changed to 15 minutes. It's better than nothing but I doubt I could make a fair judgement on an App in just 15 minutes.

Mitchrapp
Feb 17, 2011, 11:22 AM
Maybe I'm late on this or missed it somewhere but is there talk about the Netflix and Kindle apps going away from the app store?

Mitchrapp
Feb 17, 2011, 11:24 AM
That advantage seems to have mostly gone now as the refund period has been changed to 15 minutes. It's better than nothing but I doubt I could make a fair judgement on an App in just 15 minutes.

I didn't realize that. But I suppose there have a been an app here and there I knew I wasted my money in the first few minutes. They probably got rid of the 24 hours because I could see people DL games, beating it within a day and then getting a refund.

MacDawg
Feb 17, 2011, 11:25 AM
Maybe I'm late on this or missed it somewhere but is there talk about the Netflix and Kindle apps going away from the app store?

Just speculation at this point

AppleScruff1
Feb 17, 2011, 11:27 AM
You should look at any competing products that interest you and make your decision on what best meets your needs regardless of Apples policies. Why be a sheep?

iphone1105
Feb 17, 2011, 11:40 AM
Wait, wha? So you'd buy a xoom, with no known apps optimized for their tablet yet? No way to get any DRM content and use it on the xoom?(no netflix, hulu, abc, etc..) No real hands on anywhere yet showing the overall UI of the device?? just some nice video they install of the ui on the device? Just some observation

Well okay then, don't let me change your mind, but at least know what you're getting into with the xoom.

Good luck with it though, hope it brings you what you need. Make sure to come back once you get the xoom, let us iPaders know what the differences are, that'd be cool!

Good luck!

poloponies
Feb 17, 2011, 11:43 AM
Maybe I'm late on this or missed it somewhere but is there talk about the Netflix and Kindle apps going away from the app store?

You'd be wise to be wary of any "information" gleaned from this site. There will be real news on this topic at some future date but you'd be pretty foolish to rely on the misinformation collected here.

Mitchrapp
Feb 17, 2011, 11:46 AM
Wait, wha? So you'd buy a xoom, with no known apps optimized for their tablet yet? No way to get any DRM content and use it on the xoom?(no netflix, hulu, abc, etc..) No real hands on anywhere yet showing the overall UI of the device?? just some nice video they install of the ui on the device? Just some observation

Well okay then, don't let me change your mind, but at least know what you're getting into with the xoom.

Good luck with it though, hope it brings you what you need. Make sure to come back once you get the xoom, let us iPaders know what the differences are, that'd be cool!

Good luck!

Just like the iPad. How many apps did Apple have optimized for the iPad? At release. Xoom will be fine with regards to that.

whooleytoo
Feb 17, 2011, 11:58 AM
Generally I have a lot of problems with Apple's policies, but the latest ones don't bother me in the slightest.

- Can't use/buy iBooks on jailbroken devices? No problem. I don't see why Apple needs to support user-modified devices/installations.

- The subscription rules - seem quite overbearing, but I'm not a content provider so it doesn't affect me.

For the moment, I'll stick with the iOS; mostly as it's a pain to lose/replace all my apps.

Jcoz
Feb 17, 2011, 12:00 PM
I do not know if Apple's subscription policy is "fair" and
I don't care. I do know that I will be delaying all Apple purchases
(iMac and iPad 2) until July. If the likes of Amazon and Netflix
leave the App Store, so do I.

Agree 100%.

I really dont care about specific %'s or dollars, I care about my device and it being able to do what I want.....

I never minded with my iphone because the restrictions never restricted ME.....I'm not sure that will be the case with a tablet.

Have planned on buying an ipad for almost a year now. The last 30 days have officially stayed my hand until July at the very earliest, where as I planned to get the ipad 2 immediately.

Why should people buy a device from apple having absolutely no idea how future apple decisions will affect their device.....that they paid for.

I don't think I can, and I likely will not wait until all the dust settles to get a tablet if some of these non-apple offerings look good.

iphone1105
Feb 17, 2011, 12:18 PM
Just like the iPad. How many apps did Apple have optimized for the iPad? At release. Xoom will be fine with regards to that.

Apple had 1,000 apps ready at launch. I'd say they'll be well ahead of Moto and the App Marketplace for xoom wil lbe at launch...I mean the Xoom comes out in days, I have heard of maybe 5 apps, big name apps...? Theyre maybe more, but don't follow all the xoom app news unfortunately

Furthermore how will the be fine?? Xoom can't have apps that dont meet DRM standards. You want a tablet where you can't watch Netflix, or Hulu, or most TV Shows you like via a nice app?? Granted you get flash, but you'll get a couple hours of viewing at most on flash. We all know flash will eat the battery....

Just saying, not picking sides, neither of these is "god tablet" but lets not act liek the xoom is the end all be all, 'cuz it has dual cams, and some ram bumps and dual core. No one has seen it long enough to even give the UI a decent once over?!?!?!?!

McWatt
Feb 17, 2011, 12:24 PM
- The subscription rules - seem quite overbearing, but I'm not a content provider so it doesn't affect me.


Of course, these subscription rules won't affect you at all. When has a business ever raised prices on consumers just because its costs went up 30% overnight? That would never happen.

jimboutilier
Feb 17, 2011, 12:27 PM
So, I assume you do not use Amazon's Kindle e-reader or the Nook e-reader (or their iOS programs) for the exact same reason? Publishers to Barnes and Nobles service end up with anywhere from 60% to 40% of the sale price of their own content. WTF indeed.

Traditional publishers extract similar costs to publish traditional old school content. Strangely enough, the 30% "Apple tax" to play in the App Store does not seem to be killing off competition either....



Where apple hosts, streams/distributes apps or content, handles the payment, advertising etc I have no problem with them taking a reasonable cut and it can be a good deal for some providers at 30%.

In cases like Amazon, Netflix, Zinio, etc the providers do all their own heavy lifting and Apple does nothing. By decree Apple wants to take the payment and a 30% cut which is ridiculous. That means these external providers will have to raise prices to maintain some acceptable margin or leave the app store. BTW - If I publish a book on Amazon, I get 70% and they get 30%. If Apple take 30% what does that leave Amazon after they take their costs out - in the negative margins. Thats kind of like Vizio saying that because I watch my content on their TV, they are entitled to a cut of any programming fees I pay. Ridiculous.

I'm with the others that will be leaving iOS if Apples policies adversely impact my content availability or pricing. Apple makes great devices but this is a bad deal for consumers. I don't plan on transitioning to iTunes or iBook and locking myself into an Apple ecosystem when I can choose products and services that run on many other ecosystems and allow me more choices.

Funkymonk
Feb 17, 2011, 12:28 PM
have already made up my mind on getting the xoom. $600 for wifi version is a good deal.

Xoom + the new 13" mbp will be a solid combination. :D

whooleytoo
Feb 17, 2011, 12:29 PM
Of course, these subscription rules won't affect you at all. When has a business ever raised prices on consumers just because its costs went up 30% overnight? That would never happen.

Maybe, but then again the iOS marketplace is very price competitive; they might take the hit on their margins rather than lose sales.

In any case I'm neither a content provider - nor a likely subscriber! - so for the moment these changes don't affect me. ;)

maflynn
Feb 17, 2011, 12:37 PM
Maybe, but then again the iOS marketplace is very price competitive; they might take the hit on their margins rather than lose sales.
Well because its very price competitive, it makes even less sense for providers to take a 30%. That is if its so competitive and their margins are tight, it makes less sense to lose money on each sale because of 30% cut.

Sometimes its cheaper to just walk away.

camelsnot
Feb 17, 2011, 12:41 PM
the only thing the bloated itunes has over android is the amount of apps and the fact that more apps are developed for iOS first before being ported. If you can stand the "wait" for apps, do it.. I'd recommend it.

FSUSem1noles
Feb 17, 2011, 12:46 PM
So far I like what I see from the Xoom also... I love the widgets on the home screen, having weather, email, etc, right there without having to go into each seperate app... I reallly wish Apple would do something with incorporating widgets...

maflynn
Feb 17, 2011, 12:50 PM
the only thing the bloated itunes has over android is the amount of apps and the fact that more apps are developed for iOS first before being ported. If you can stand the "wait" for apps, do it.. I'd recommend it.

The android marketplace is not perfect by a long shot. There's too many malware apps, scams and even google has admitted it has to fix some things.

While there are a lot of apps, people are not buying apps in great numbers. Google created this monster because they benefit from the ads, but for developers they're better off getting income from sales not clicks. Additionally there's too many rip offs, have a great app, there will be one that is a virtual clone. These examples show that its not a great place to develop as its difficult to make money.

For the consumer, the risk of malware is there, so google's hands off approach brings risks to the consumer.

hcho3
Feb 17, 2011, 01:01 PM
There are only two apps that most people would care about...

Netflix and Kindle.

Kindle is a great app for reading, but I can find another alternative. So, don't matter.

Netflix is just as greedy as apple. I cancelled their service. They have been raising prices for no reason. I hate them.

FSUSem1noles
Feb 17, 2011, 01:03 PM
There are only two apps that most people would care about...

Netflix and Kindle.

Kindle is a great app for reading, but I can find another alternative. So, don't matter.

Netflix is just as greedy as apple. I cancelled their service. They have been raising prices for no reason. I hate them.

I'm finding it hard to stay with Netflix.. especially due to their delay in getting new releases, 30 days?!?!

I wonder if Blockbuster streaming would work on the Xoom?

maflynn
Feb 17, 2011, 01:09 PM
I wonder if Blockbuster streaming would work on the Xoom?
I can't see why it wouldn't given the business relationship verizon and blockbuster has. Correct me if I'm wrong, verizon will be selling the xoom with a subsidized price correct

Mitchrapp
Feb 17, 2011, 01:10 PM
Is 30 days really the end of the world? Netflix is great if you like movies, outside the new releases, and stream only. 7.99 is a bargain.

Can't speak for stream plus DVD.

But in the end I have Netflix on my PS3 so losing it here wouldn't effect me much. That being said, I'm still getting the Xoom :P.

FSUSem1noles
Feb 17, 2011, 01:13 PM
I can't see why it wouldn't given the business relationship verizon and blockbuster has. Correct me if I'm wrong, verizon will be selling the xoom with a subsidized price correct

I'm not sure how it's going to work with Verizon, with the Verizon logo plastered all over the damn thing I'd say it's a forgone conclusion they have exclusive rights, whether or not they subsidize it or offer some other deals is anyone's guess at this point... I am certainly going to check it out though..

jclardy
Feb 17, 2011, 01:16 PM
I'm going to be waiting to see how the main few companies I care about handle it: Amazon and Netflix.

But of course, as a developer I'm not going to be straight up switching, just transitioning to multiple platforms sooner than I was planning to.

FSUSem1noles
Feb 17, 2011, 01:16 PM
Is 30 days really the end of the world? Netflix is great if you like movies, outside the new releases, and stream only. 7.99 is a bargain.

Can't speak for stream plus DVD.

But in the end I have Netflix on my PS3 so losing it here wouldn't effect me much. That being said, I'm still getting the Xoom :P.

With a Wife who anxiously awaits a movie to come to blu ray/dvd, yes 30 days is an ETERNITY... so we usually just end up going to blockbuster to rent the movie... hell, I'm paying monthly for Netflix and I don't even know the last time I used it... I did downgrade our plan to 1 dvd just to keep the streaming part active, but heck, I haven't even used that..

Mitchrapp
Feb 17, 2011, 01:30 PM
With a Wife who anxiously awaits a movie to come to blu ray/dvd, yes 30 days is an ETERNITY... so we usually just end up going to blockbuster to rent the movie... hell, I'm paying monthly for Netflix and I don't even know the last time I used it... I did downgrade our plan to 1 dvd just to keep the streaming part active, but heck, I haven't even used that..

Fair enough.

BobVB
Feb 17, 2011, 01:35 PM
I bought a tablet computer - I would no more expect Apple to get a cut from every e-book I bought than I would on my iMac.

Since we won't know what Kindle, Zinio and the other providers will do until after the launch of the iPad 2 this will, at the least, delay my purchase of an iPad 2. If there isn't a mass exodus of providers I'll stay with the iPad, if there is I will just keep my iPad and shop around for a universal reader tablet with open access to content.

maflynn
Feb 17, 2011, 01:38 PM
with the Verizon logo plastered all over the damn thing I'd say it's a forgone conclusion they have exclusive rights.
To be honest, I've not followed the xoom all that closely. Just reading stuff about it, no videos or such. :o

BornAgainMac
Feb 17, 2011, 01:42 PM
In all fairness, Apple is making it a better experience for the consumer. Maybe charge 10% instead of 30% could be a good compromise. I am glad products like the XOOM could be what is needed to get Apple to make better decisions in the future.

chrono1081
Feb 17, 2011, 01:46 PM
Apple continues to tighten control. I am a big Apple product user. Everyone in my family has an ios device. But this subscription policy just irks me and makes me wonder about future. I don't want to be locked into Apple forever but they continue to push down that road.

For the first time I am taking a serious look at Xoom. Honeycomb looks great. This is the first time I have looked away from ipad.

Let the fallout begin and the fanboys defend.

I think all threads that say stupid things like "Let the fallout begin and the fanboys defend" should go straight to the wasteland because its written by an obvious troll.

faith4more
Feb 17, 2011, 01:58 PM
I started this thread. Promise you I am not a Troll. My wife, kids and I own a Macbook pro. 2 ipads, Apple tv, 3 iphones, 1 touch, and several ipods. Heck even got my mom and her sister to buy iphones and macbook Pro's. Have two friends that work for Apple that think I am more of a machead than them. Almost went to work for Apple but bought my own company instead.

Find myself unhappy with the Apple locking everything up even tighter. Get the picture Apple ticking off loyal customers. I buy a device they change or start to enforce stupid policies that affect my experience. I sure don't want to buy more devices and have Apple change things again.

I think all threads that say stupid things like "Let the fallout begin and the fanboys defend" should go straight to the wasteland because its written by an obvious troll.

nomik2
Feb 17, 2011, 02:02 PM
I started this thread. Promise you I am not a Troll. My wife, kids and I own a Macbook pro. 2 ipads, Apple tv, 3 iphones, 1 touch, and several ipods. Heck even got my mom and her sister to buy iphones and macbook Pro's. Almost went to work for Apple but bought my own company instead.

Find myself unhappy with the Apple locking everything up even tighter.

Don't give in to the fanboys, stay strong and ignore them...

danielveeee
Feb 17, 2011, 02:35 PM
i sold my ipad, and will be looking into a new tablet.
im going to take a serious look at the xoom,
but ive been spoiled with my apple products that never fail me,
and never lag or crash or anything... i hope thats not a problem on the xoom

faith4more
Feb 17, 2011, 02:49 PM
Stayin Strong. I am having to join Fanboys Anonymous recovery program.

While the Matrix is nice I want to be free.

Signed,
faith4more
Recovering fanboy

Don't give in to the fanboys, stay strong and ignore them...

ZBoater
Feb 17, 2011, 03:06 PM
I am a former iPhone 3G/3GS user, but now use a Droid. I bought the iPad because it was the only game in town. Having used both OSes extensively, I can say I am jumping ship to an Android tablet as soon as a decent 4G tablet comes along.

I love iOS, as it is a more polished experience. But I hate the controls. I want to install apps from my hard drive and not be connected to anything. I want to expand my storage with SD cards. I want to connect using a USB cable. I want to spoof my gps location. I want to download files from the internet and manipulate them like I do on my PC. Create folders and directories, unzip files, change the theme/colors, customize the buttons, widgets - I want as much control over my device as I can. Apple doesn't believe in that model. I am not saying they are wrong, its just not my cup of tea. With the ability to customize and change comes instability. Its a fact. And unless you are somewhat techie, that advantage of Android disappears.

The iPad is an amazing device that revived a dead market (tablets) and pushed competitors to wake up. But at the end of the day Apple is not about market domination, but about profits, and as long as they can churn out iPods and iPads and make billions in profits, they don't need to cater to a wider audience. And you know what? That's just fine. Competition is good. I may even consider a iPhone 5 if the Xoom tablet is able to meet my mobile computing needs.... :rolleyes:

jmgregory1
Feb 17, 2011, 03:12 PM
Anyone who complains about Apple's policies regarding controlling apps and hence the consumer experience must not shop for anything or watch any single channel on tv or drive a car or fly on a plane or eat at a particular restaurant or, or, or.

Every company that sells a product or service is doing the exact same thing. They control the experience and/or the product. Do you go to Target and tell them they should be selling Wal-Mart branded products? Or maybe the better comparison is with cars - if you drive a Honda, you have bought into their eco-system. You can't get a GM engine in it or a MB transmission.

The world is not open and free. Frankly, I like the fact that Apple is editing the store - and there is enough crap on it already that I'm not concerned if I can't get so and so's app that's available on a competing OS. Even the new subscription service is treading into new ground - the way things are today will most likely not be the way they are tomorrow.

Apple isn't perfect, but neither is Google or MOTO or any other purveyor of stuff.

Jcoz
Feb 17, 2011, 04:03 PM
Anyone who complains about Apple's policies regarding controlling apps and hence the consumer experience must not shop for anything or watch any single channel on tv or drive a car or fly on a plane or eat at a particular restaurant or, or, or.

Every company that sells a product or service is doing the exact same thing. They control the experience and/or the product. Do you go to Target and tell them they should be selling Wal-Mart branded products? Or maybe the better comparison is with cars - if you drive a Honda, you have bought into their eco-system. You can't get a GM engine in it or a MB transmission.

The world is not open and free. Frankly, I like the fact that Apple is editing the store - and there is enough crap on it already that I'm not concerned if I can't get so and so's app that's available on a competing OS. Even the new subscription service is treading into new ground - the way things are today will most likely not be the way they are tomorrow.

Apple isn't perfect, but neither is Google or MOTO or any other purveyor of stuff.

The big difference here is that this is not the mature market that cars and cable are.

The changes and differences could be much more severe. And that warrants concern, as you are BUYING equipment, not leasing it.

I have a direct TV account, and I subscribe knowing what channels I'm getting - is there potential for disputes? Sure D-tv has to negotiate with content providers, but those are extremely small waves and you can be 99% sure of what you are getting....

Buying into iOS right now, particularly with unsubsidized equipment costs like Tablets, is risky business while this all plays out.

When it comes to things provided in any way by third parties, users can simply be far, far more informed dealing with Windows, Macs/OSX and even Android for mobile devices, than newer proprietary closed platforms like QNX, iOS, and webOS.

I'm slowly coming to the realization that Apple was indeed serious in that they do not consider the iPad to be a personal computer, and in the end, even though I love the apple products I've purchased (macbook, iphones, ipods), I'm thinking I need my freedom to install programs to be much closer to my macbook than to my iphone, when it comes to a owning a tablet.

I'll continue to wait and see how it plays out, but moving to a new mobile OS was not what I wanted to do....too bad apple and I seem to be moving in different directions.

Man I would really, really, hate to have to use a different OS on my computer, but for the people who dont like google leveraging personal info, I'm not sure how those same people enjoy apple leveraging them as their personal customer for all programs on their electronic devices.

This is a very new way of dealing with consumer electronics as capable most any computer you have used prior to 2005.

All things told, I'm starting to get the feeling that there will be way more differences in owning a tablet with whatever OS on it than it is owning a phone/PC with whatever OS on it.

whooleytoo
Feb 17, 2011, 04:11 PM
Well because its very price competitive, it makes even less sense for providers to take a 30%. That is if its so competitive and their margins are tight, it makes less sense to lose money on each sale because of 30% cut.

Sometimes its cheaper to just walk away.

Quite possibly. It depends on how iOS v Android marketshare shapes up. If the iOS continues to hold a large marketshare, then content providers might have little choice but give Apple their cut. If Android grows much larger, it becomes easier for them to walk away and publish on that platform.

Personally, it won't matter much to me as I'm not much interested in the subscription model at the moment. If and when more and more content providers move away from iOS because of Apple's policies, I'll get concerned. But I think Apple is smart enough to see which way the wind blows and change before it becomes a serious issue.

phpmaven
Feb 17, 2011, 04:21 PM
I think all threads that say stupid things like "Let the fallout begin and the fanboys defend" should go straight to the wasteland because its written by an obvious troll.

Here, here. I think that any post that uses the term "fanboy" or any of it's forms should get nuked immediately. I'm really tired of the childish nonsense on these forums.

coochiekuta
Feb 17, 2011, 04:42 PM
netflix is great. they were hurting everyone, not just blockbuster. they made deals with several studios to provide newer releases later in exchange for more streaming titles. streaming is a big part of what they do now.

since you arent renting them, the studios get a chance to sale you the dvd and netflix gets more movies to provide to their customers.

faith4more
Feb 17, 2011, 04:44 PM
Yes nuke them all. Make the droidhead fanboy name callers go down in shame.

Faith4more
Recovering fanboy (thinking about becoming droidhead)


Here, here. I think that any post that uses the term "fanboy" or any of it's forms should get nuked immediately. I'm really tired of the childish nonsense on these forums.

iphone1105
Feb 17, 2011, 05:19 PM
Yes nuke them all. Make the droidhead fanboy name callers go down in shame.

Faith4more
Recovering fanboy (thinking about becoming droidhead)

yawn....

Who cares, just get what you like best and be done with it.

ucfgrad93
Feb 17, 2011, 05:41 PM
yawn....

Who cares, just get what you like best and be done with it.

Agreed. Everyone has different needs and wants for phones, computers, cars, etc. Get whatever meets the most of those needs and don't worry about what other people choose to use.

Jcoz
Feb 17, 2011, 06:15 PM
Agreed. Everyone has different needs and wants for phones, computers, cars, etc. Get whatever meets the most of those needs and don't worry about what other people choose to use.

Problem here is its just not that easy to walk away from many of these, chosing one is commiting alot of dollars to something that may be useless it it takes another turn....

Sucks but I think the right move it still just to sit it out for me, hopefully apple gets it right or it becomes clear they didn't.

Whichever it is, I really hope its settled in the next 16 months...I'll be up for a new phone, id like to have some integration between my phone/tablet, HP's just scratching the surface with being able to get texts pop up on your tablet, would love to see apple ease up a bit on the throttle with content providers and make owning BOTH the iphone and pad together meaningful in everyday useful ways.

Phil A.
Feb 17, 2011, 06:28 PM
I wasn't planning on upgrading my iPad for another year so I'll just bide my time and see what's happening this time next year.

If Apple have lost a lot of content due to this subscription charge and other platforms have content and applications that suit my needs better, I'll have to consider moving to an alternative platform.

However, if (as I suspect will happen), the content providers stamp their feet for a bit and eventually come to a compromise deal with Apple, I'll happily upgrade to a new iPad

Ultimately, I couldn't care less whether Apple are squeezing content providers or not: that's not my argument to have. The only thing I care about is whether the iPad and other iOS devices suit my needs and if they continue to do so, I'm not about to stop using them out of some misplaced sense of outrage

Jcoz
Feb 17, 2011, 07:25 PM
Ultimately, I couldn't care less whether Apple are squeezing content providers or not: that's not my argument to have. The only thing I care about is whether the iPad and other iOS devices suit my needs and if they continue to do so, I'm not about to stop using them out of some misplaced sense of outrage

Agreed! this is also my thought on it, I really could care less what the details of thier arrangement is just dont want the functionality to be cut at the knees due to a pissing match, and I hope the waters for apps devs stay warm....anyone know the details of Androids marketplace as far as the apps go? Still 30%?

I would imagine if so, it wont be long before google heavily undercuts apple there as well, particularly if thier hardware partners continue to have trouble undercutting the price of the hardware, which obviously wasn't the case with phones.

In that respect google and moto and Co still have moves to make there. If they cant compete with apple on hardware price, the only way to cut apple will be making the dev deals particularly enticing.....

This is something that Android can do but wont make sense for HP and RIM because even if they did the installed base just wont be there.

Zcott
Feb 17, 2011, 07:28 PM
Worth remembering that this subscription pricing model won't actually affect one-man-band app developers, or the little man at all. It's aimed entirely at Big Media, which can afford this kind of thing.

bri1212
Feb 17, 2011, 07:59 PM
Actually, it is funny that you all are so up in arms about this.
This is not a change in policy at all. Apple has always taken
a 30% portion on all sales on the app store, and I am sure this has been there cut on itunes too. The policy didn't even change, all that they are doing is enforcing it.
As I listen to you crybaby's I know that very few of you have been in business or even taken classes in business. All Stores providing products to you take more than a 30 percent markup on their products. That is true of every store in the country including walmart, and including all the dot com stores.
Its funny that all of you assume that your buying from the developer, you are buying from Apple. They are the store providing space for the developer.
The developer getting 70% of the gross sales, is almost un heard of, and is why Apple is so successful, and why in their heart of hearts all of the developers want to have their products on Apple's app store.

Anybody who assumes that this thread is not to ignite "the fanboys" you just have to look at the first paragraph where he shows his intent. It is also where he shows his ignorance

AppleScruff1
Feb 17, 2011, 09:03 PM
All Stores providing products to you take more than a 30 percent markup on their products. That is true of every store in the country including walmart, and including all the dot com stores.


Not true at all.

faith4more
Feb 17, 2011, 09:16 PM
You call me ignorant. Really lets don't play that card. Apple made developers pay for selling apps not the content itself. They may have had the policy to charge for content but did not enforce it until now.

Apple is now taking a a cut for content. Big difference.

How would you like it if Apple started taking a cut for all the content that went through macbooks by essentially creating this same type of policy. I see no difference between a macbook and ipad which I consider almost my laptop replacement. Heck maybe every platform including broadband providers start charging a toll for content delivery. Maybe broadband providers could even charge Apple 30% for delivering itunes content over their pipes. Would the fanboys not cry foul broadband providers yet defend Apple for these types of policies. Sounds ludicrous and would cost the consumer but is essentially what Apple is going to do.

My definition of a fanboy is not someone who likes Apples products. I like Apples products. A fanboy is someone who defends Apple even when they do something stupid that exerts more and more control.


Actually, it is funny that you all are so up in arms about this.
This is not a change in policy at all. Apple has always taken
a 30% portion on all sales on the app store, and I am sure this has been there cut on itunes too. The policy didn't even change, all that they are doing is enforcing it.
As I listen to you crybaby's I know that very few of you have been in business or even taken classes in business. All Stores providing products to you take more than a 30 percent markup on their products. That is true of every store in the country including walmart, and including all the dot com stores.
Its funny that all of you assume that your buying from the developer, you are buying from Apple. They are the store providing space for the developer.
The developer getting 70% of the gross sales, is almost un heard of, and is why Apple is so successful, and why in their heart of hearts all of the developers want to have their products on Apple's app store.

Anybody who assumes that this thread is not to ignite "the fanboys" you just have to look at the first paragraph where he shows his intent. It is also where he shows his ignorance

Uofmtiger
Feb 17, 2011, 09:19 PM
The main reason I love the iPad is the apps. If they start disappearing and showing up on competitor's tablets, I would get something else.

In way, I think Apple has a point. I would not have bought kindle books or a kindle for out in the sun if I did not have the kindle app on my iPad and iPhone. I would not have Zinio and several magazine subscriptions if they weren't on the iPad. I would have rhapsody, but I bet they picked up quite a few subscribers after they became available on iOS.

Apple has created a bigger marketplace for them, so I am not surprised they are asking for a large cut. However, now I have used these apps and it would be a big disappointment to lose them now. I will not be jumping ship on speculation, though. I will wait to see what happens.

outz
Feb 17, 2011, 09:30 PM
have already made up my mind on getting the xoom. $600 for wifi version is a good deal.

Xoom + the new 13" mbp will be a solid combination. :D

is it going to be $600? i keep reading ~799. is there official pricing anywhere?

Madmic23
Feb 17, 2011, 09:52 PM
Actually, it is funny that you all are so up in arms about this.
This is not a change in policy at all. Apple has always taken
a 30% portion on all sales on the app store, and I am sure this has been there cut on itunes too. The policy didn't even change, all that they are doing is enforcing it.
As I listen to you crybaby's I know that very few of you have been in business or even taken classes in business. All Stores providing products to you take more than a 30 percent markup on their products. That is true of every store in the country including walmart, and including all the dot com stores.
Its funny that all of you assume that your buying from the developer, you are buying from Apple. They are the store providing space for the developer.
The developer getting 70% of the gross sales, is almost un heard of, and is why Apple is so successful, and why in their heart of hearts all of the developers want to have their products on Apple's app store.

Anybody who assumes that this thread is not to ignite "the fanboys" you just have to look at the first paragraph where he shows his intent. It is also where he shows his ignorance

I think you missed the point here. No one is arguing that Apple is taking 30% of an app purchase, that's always been the case. Also, they have always charged 30% for in app purchases, like extra levels in a game.

The issue here is that now they want to force content providers to shell out 30%, like the Amazon Kindle app. They want to take Amazons ability to sell content from the app (currently in the form of a link to their website) and force them to sell books as an in app purchase, with Apple taking 30%.

It's the equivalent of Microsoft creating a "Windows payment system," and taking 30% of every song sold through iTunes on Windows. Doesn't make much sense, does it?

Funkymonk
Feb 17, 2011, 10:15 PM
is it going to be $600? i keep reading ~799. is there official pricing anywhere?

Yeah. I'm pretty sure it's $600.

AppleScruff1
Feb 17, 2011, 10:19 PM
Yeah. I'm pretty sure it's $600.

Here is a link in another thread, courtesy of Mad Mac Maniac. Engadget is reporting $600 for WiFi only and $799 unsubsidized on Verizon.

jvmxtra
Feb 17, 2011, 10:34 PM
I am getting ipad 2 blindly.

Yes, Xoom spec wise looks decent. But w/ google product(where they do not control both software and hardware), I see that after 3 month, your product is no longer getting any attention. Knowing them, after you buy Xoom, 3 month later, they will be releasing something brand spanking new and your tablet will be ignored by them.

I currently have droid-X and HATE it since it became POS after 3 month of being released. It really blows.

Also, netflix? REally? They have nothing but old movies on it for streaming. Do people like to pay and watch old movies on their tablet?

Kindle is decent.

But where is air video for droid? Where is "plants vs zombie" for droid? Problem w/ google is that they release hot software after 1 year or more later when ios had it since the begining. Can someone answer why???

AppleScruff1
Feb 17, 2011, 10:37 PM
I am getting ipad 2 blindly.

Yes, Xoom spec wise looks decent. But w/ google product(where they do not control both software and hardware), I see that after 3 month, your product is no longer getting any attention. Knowing them, after you buy Xoom, 3 month later, they will be releasing something brand spanking new and your tablet will be ignored by them.

I currently have droid-X and HATE it since it became POS after 3 month of being released. It really blows.

Also, netflix? REally? They have nothing but old movies on it for streaming. Do people like to pay and watch old movies on their tablet?

Kindle is decent.

But where is air video for droid? Where is "plants vs zombie" for droid? Problem w/ google is that they release hot software after 1 year or more later when ios had it since the begining. Can someone answer why???

What happened to your Droid X? Or is it not updateable?

jvmxtra
Feb 17, 2011, 11:07 PM
What happened to your Droid X? Or is it not updateable?

Update so I could do what? watch screen move bit faster? watch new wallpaper move? Droid update is useless. They concentrate on the most stupid and useless stuff. Fancy UI is great for few minutes but at the end of the day, you still need apps that you can really use it for.

I did root'd and updated at earliest available dates.. Still no apps to my liking. Maybe update is available but certainly them keep making new device every month is discouraging from owner's perspective. I rather wait whole year knowing that at least my device is the center of company's attention.(maybe I am fool to believe this.. but whatever)

Jnava420
Feb 17, 2011, 11:15 PM
I too for the past week now find my self looking at the xoom more and more the open os and being able to return apps just seem like things i would like..plus flash lets not forget about that crap....idk maybe its just because there is no iPad 2 to love yet i do love my current iPad but its getting old i need a new tablet and am sick of waiting on apple to get their crap together

Jnava420
Feb 17, 2011, 11:22 PM
Update so I could do what? watch screen move bit faster? watch new wallpaper move? Droid update is useless. They concentrate on the most stupid and useless stuff. Fancy UI is great for few minutes but at the end of the day, you still need apps that you can really use it for.

I did root'd and updated at earliest available dates.. Still no apps to my liking. Maybe update is available but certainly them keep making new device every month is discouraging from owner's perspective. I rather wait whole year knowing that at least my device is the center of company's attention.(maybe I am fool to believe this.. but whatever)

good point man wow im glad i read that, really tho android is on anything and everything i guess really what makes xoom so special because it was motos feature at CES this year? Apple will dominate like always because of just that they release 1 and done for that year.....besides improving it through out the year

gwangung
Feb 17, 2011, 11:41 PM
Not true at all.

Way more true than you think.

sciwizam
Feb 17, 2011, 11:46 PM
You need to pick the device/platform that best suits your needs.

I've found android to have some very good positives and some very frustrating negatives.

My biggest complaint so far is the glacial pace motorola takes in providing updates. Android 2.2 was released in May, the DroidX didn't see it until the last day of september. Even then it was incredibly buggy, and I had to wait 3 more months to get the bug fix. I'm still waiting for 2.3

While iOS is a closed marketplace, from a consumer's perspective its a better marketplace then google's as you have company over-seeing and approving what can be sold. The downside is that you have to live within their eco-system.

If you're heavily involved with apple products you may be dissapointed in getting your stuff so easily synced. Its doable, but no where near the ease and simplicity of apple

Do I sound like I'm now an android hater or an apple fanboy? I'm not just someone who's been using android for a while. I like the platform, but you need to choose wisely. I loved my nexus one, because it was rootable, and got updates fast. I'm disappointed in my Droidx because its buggy and moto is slow to update it.

All the Honeycomb tablets announced are stock Honeycomb, so there shouldn't be any delays once Google ships the next version of OS.

bri1212
Feb 18, 2011, 12:52 AM
I think you missed the point here. No one is arguing that Apple is taking 30% of an app purchase, that's always been the case. Also, they have always charged 30% for in app purchases, like extra levels in a game.

Ok, like I said.


The issue here is that now they want to force content providers to shell out 30%, like the Amazon Kindle app. They want to take Amazons ability to sell content from the app (currently in the form of a link to their website) and force them to sell books as an in app purchase, with Apple taking 30%.

But are they preventing them from being sold on their website or just making them offer the books through in app purchase too? And are they preventing the consumer from going to their website to download it anyways?


It's the equivalent of Microsoft creating a "Windows payment system," and taking 30% of every song sold through iTunes on Windows. Doesn't make much sense, does it?

I don't think this analogy holds water. It is more like a sales company saying we will guarantee that your product is available, and to do that we want a 30% cut. You don't have to buy it from them, but it is easier, as a convenience. Now, you as the book publisher have to decide if it is worth being in front of these millions of people who have ipads, for that 30% cut.

AppleScruff1
Feb 18, 2011, 01:04 AM
Way more true than you think.

I know for a fact that not every single store in the US operates with a 30+% markup. That was a broad statement and all encompassing. Certainly many do and some even more than that, but to claim that all do is simply not true.

twotwo11
Feb 18, 2011, 02:18 AM
Update so I could do what? watch screen move bit faster? watch new wallpaper move? Droid update is useless. They concentrate on the most stupid and useless stuff. Fancy UI is great for few minutes but at the end of the day, you still need apps that you can really use it for.

I did root'd and updated at earliest available dates.. Still no apps to my liking. Maybe update is available but certainly them keep making new device every month is discouraging from owner's perspective. I rather wait whole year knowing that at least my device is the center of company's attention.(maybe I am fool to believe this.. but whatever)

I can honestly say I have never thought of it that way. When I think about all I really do on my phone is basic web browsing. Anyways, I give you two thumbs up for this post. :D

maflynn
Feb 18, 2011, 06:18 AM
I can honestly say I have never thought of it that way. When I think about all I really do on my phone is basic web browsing. Anyways, I give you two thumbs up for this post. :D

I have a droidx and use my phone for mostly web surfing, email and of course phone calls. The web browser is awful, I think apple has done a much better job with safari, and the email client is lightyears ahead of what I see on android.

As for apps on the android vs. iOS. There are lot of high quality apps on the android platform. Some equal and surpass whats on iOS, there's just fewer of them. You have more dross to skim off to find the real gold. With iOS there's more high quality apps.

faith4more
Feb 18, 2011, 07:48 AM
But the problem is Apple is forcing them to offer same price in App store as on their own website. This means apps like kindle could not say okay we want to play in Apples sandbox so we will raise prices on ios but if people come our site they can get a better deal. Apple will not allow it and it will kill some of these content providers business models if they play by Apples rules. Especially in areas where they have to compete with Apple like ibooks. In fact I bet Amazon does not make a 30% margin on selling ebooks.


I want to consume my content from publisher I choose on device I bought (just like my desktop and laptop) without Apple meddling. That is why I am looking at Android.


Ok, like I said.




But are they preventing them from being sold on their website or just making them offer the books through in app purchase too? And are they preventing the consumer from going to their website to download it anyways?




I don't think this analogy holds water. It is more like a sales company saying we will guarantee that your product is available, and to do that we want a 30% cut. You don't have to buy it from them, but it is easier, as a convenience. Now, you as the book publisher have to decide if it is worth being in front of these millions of people who have ipads, for that 30% cut.

Mitchrapp
Feb 18, 2011, 08:04 AM
Also, netflix? REally? They have nothing but old movies on it for streaming. Do people like to pay and watch old movies on their tablet?

You'll be surprised how many of us already had Netflix sub watching on our TVs before the iPad came out. So it's just an addition, another way to watch. We're not paying double. Lol.

And what's your definition of old, a few months -- it's not like they have movies just from the 40s and 50s.

jmgregory1
Feb 18, 2011, 08:59 AM
But the problem is Apple is forcing them to offer same price in App store as on their own website. This means apps like kindle could not say okay we want to play in Apples sandbox so we will raise prices on ios but if people come our site they can get a better deal. Apple will not allow it and it will kill some of these content providers business models if they play by Apples rules. Especially in areas where they have to compete with Apple like ibooks. In fact I bet Amazon does not make a 30% margin on selling ebooks.


I want to consume my content from publisher I choose on device I bought (just like my desktop and laptop) without Apple meddling. That is why I am looking at Android.

The problem, or possible problem with what Apple is trying to enforce, for a company like Amazon is that they are a retailer, not a direct publisher for all of their content. As such, they do not necessarily have the additional mark-up to be able to distribute wholesale their content, giving Apple a cut.

If I were Apple, in situations like this, I would create a separate (lower) category for mark-up on products that are essentially being re-distributed. Of course Apple is a for-profit business and it's in their best interest to try to get their piece of the pie for the sale of products generated through the use of their iOS and devices. This is how business works.

If Apple fails to get companies to sign on to this deal and the amount of content suffers, then Apple may suffer when consumers look outside the ecosystem for what they want. I'm guessing that this is a chance that Apple is willing to take at this point in the game, given they've created the game and the "rules" are what they want to make them be.

Making a switch from one device to another is everyone's prerogative, but shouldn't you wait until you are actually "suffering" from the lack of something you want on one device so you can get it on another?

And for those people who are not part of the manufacturing and sale of a consumer product - a little education: Margins that retailers make vary with product category and by retailer. With a retailer like Costco, their mark-up can be as low as 13%, but won't go much higher than 18%. Most brick and mortar stores shoot for a 50% gross margin on product, but deviate up and down from there (generally electronics have low margins compared to many other consumer products) . Wal-Mart can operate on lower mark-ups, compared to even their closest competitor such as Target, because they have efficiencies in their distribution system, operations, etc that allow them sell more products for less and still be a profitable company.

Many retailers also have back-end deals that can add up to another 20%+ - a number that comes out of the product manufacturer's profit. What manufacturers mark the product up to sell to retailers, or distributors who serve retail, has just about the same type of variance. Do big volumes on a commodity item and you may be happy making 20% gross. Make a specialty product selling in low quantities to a specialty market and you could make 80%+.

jvmxtra
Feb 18, 2011, 09:43 AM
You'll be surprised how many of us already had Netflix sub watching on our TVs before the iPad came out. So it's just an addition, another way to watch. We're not paying double. Lol.

And what's your definition of old, a few months -- it's not like they have movies just from the 40s and 50s.

Ok, so people who already have it for something else is a fair game.

And netflix carrying only old movies is not entirely accurate. But you have to admit, it takes a long time for them bring current movies for streaming.. and that sucks for people who uses ipad as their main media device(including tv)

StructAural
Feb 18, 2011, 09:59 AM
I was preparing for an iPad 2 but I think I'll test the waters with Android and also go for a Xoom. Also I want Flash on a Pad.

I can't support such protection racket business ethics from Apple, not during a recession, not when they are avoiding tax, not when I have a Spotify subscription. This is the straw that broke the camel's back. The iPhone 4 is probably my last Apple consumer product.

Let's hope the Macs continue to be worth buying as they are my first love.

Mitchrapp
Feb 18, 2011, 10:27 AM
Ok, so people who already have it for something else is a fair game.

And netflix carrying only old movies is not entirely accurate. But you have to admit, it takes a long time for them bring current movies for streaming.. and that sucks for people who uses ipad as their main media device(including tv)

Maybe but I guess for me, getting to watch new releases quicker isn't huge deal for me, as long as I get to watch it ;) Plus I'm a big movie buff, from the 30s to the 21st century so I definitely get my money's worth :D

faith4more
Feb 18, 2011, 10:35 AM
I bet if Apple does open up Appletv up to apps like hulu plus they will do the same thing they are trying to do in ios devices. I have wondered if they would even allow hulu on Appletv since it directly competes with business model of renting movies etc. For a while I thought even though it competes they will allow it on just like they do other ios devices.

But now I see the sinister plan was to create a toll system. So I think they will allow for Hulu plus etc on Appletv now but will charge a toll. They may not do it yet because they are not a dominate force in the tv arena. But if they ever reach critical mass I bet this is what they do. For "now" they don't toll netflix because they needed netflix to sell Appletv.

Good news is there are and will be plenty of other ways of getting content to TV.

iphone1105
Feb 18, 2011, 11:01 AM
Ok, so people who already have it for something else is a fair game.

And netflix carrying only old movies is not entirely accurate. But you have to admit, it takes a long time for them bring current movies for streaming.. and that sucks for people who uses ipad as their main media device(including tv)

If your iPad is anyone's "main" source for consuming media, thats just really sad. IMO. And they wasted their money for a device they'd use soley for that purpose....

poloponies
Feb 18, 2011, 11:13 AM
If your iPad is anyone's "main" source for consuming media, thats just really sad. IMO. And they wasted their money for a device they'd use soley for that purpose....

Believe it or not, not everyone lives with TV. Some people choose not to own a TV and the iPad or a similar media device serves as their entry point into the video world. If they're not sad then why should you be?

OptyCT
Feb 18, 2011, 11:15 AM
I have a droidx and use my phone for mostly web surfing, email and of course phone calls. The web browser is awful, I think apple has done a much better job with safari, and the email client is lightyears ahead of what I see on android.

As for apps on the android vs. iOS. There are lot of high quality apps on the android platform. Some equal and surpass whats on iOS, there's just fewer of them. You have more dross to skim off to find the real gold. With iOS there's more high quality apps.

A HUGE +1

I've owned a Droid Incredible (running 2.2 Froyo) for over a year and my experience with Android has been lukewarm at best. I would caution against "the grass is always greener" type thinking and do some hard research before making a purchase. I find Android to be far less polished than iOS. I consistently run into some headscratching moments with Android, whereas my iPad and wife's iPhone 4 operate without a hitch.

That being said, we all know that Apple products aren't the "be all and end all" of consumer electronics. If you find another product that you are happier with, then best of luck to you.

DeeEss
Feb 18, 2011, 11:21 AM
don't know about that. Honeycomb seems unecessarily complicated to me and from what I"ve seen a bit laggy. Probably because it's bogged down with so much.

But I can see why you might consider it. I'm waiting to make any decision of corse till we see some sort of tangible details of iPad2

DeeEss
Feb 18, 2011, 11:24 AM
If your iPad is anyone's "main" source for consuming media, thats just really sad. IMO. And they wasted their money for a device they'd use soley for that purpose....

That's just really sad? How is that sad?

jvmxtra
Feb 18, 2011, 12:22 PM
If your iPad is anyone's "main" source for consuming media, thats just really sad. IMO. And they wasted their money for a device they'd use soley for that purpose....

I know a lot of people who have cable which is hook up to slingbox and choose to watch wherever they want to(laptop,tablet,phone).
I know a lot of people who don't have tv in the dorm and their main source for media is ipad. I don't think that's sad at all. I think it's awesome.


Consuming media through big TV in living for all the time is so 90s...

faith4more
Feb 18, 2011, 01:26 PM
I have a buyer for my ipad. So I am going to partially leave the iOS Matrix. I still have an iphone 4 and my daughter still has an ipad.

Honestly, the ipad is so simple it gets boring. I find iOS great for iphone 4 because my expectations are different. However, I want a tablet with some laptop qualities to it.

But the real reason I am jumping ship is the App store policy. At least that is what got me looking elsewhere and I liked what I saw in honeycomb. I am actually glad Apple is doing this now because the more you keep investing in the Apple eco-system the harder it becomes to leave. My belief is Apple will continue to tighten to control and some who would like to leave will have a hard time because they have to much media etc tied to the Apple eco system. By leaving now my investment is lower than it would have been.

Thus I am going to buy the xoom. Honeycomb looks fantastic.

Apple App store policy fallout has begun.

Now fanboys go ahead and tell me how I am going to regret it and come crawling back to Steve.

I am not afraid of Steve.

ucfgrad93
Feb 18, 2011, 01:47 PM
I am not afraid of Steve.

Congratulations.:rolleyes: Enjoy your new device.

mbburn
Feb 18, 2011, 02:05 PM
Apple isn't requiring that content providers sell their ware solely through the App Store, only that they also make it available there for the same price that its offered elsewhere. They are still able to sell it outside of Apple's ecosystem for the the same price, sans Apple's 30%. That means that if Amazon sells a book for $10, buying through Amazon gives Amazon $10. Buying through the Kindle App will cost you $10, give Apple $3, and Amazon $7. But it doesn't mean you can't still buy it at Amazon say, from your computer and sync later.

If you have such a huge problem with Apple taking their cut for hosting the apps, processing payments, etc., continue to purchase your content elsewhere.

thesmoth
Feb 18, 2011, 02:25 PM
I have a buyer for my ipad. So I am going to partially leave the iOS Matrix. I still have an iphone 4 and my daughter still has an ipad.

Honestly, the ipad is so simple it gets boring. I find iOS great for iphone 4 because my expectations are different. However, I want a tablet with some laptop qualities to it.

But the real reason I am jumping ship is the App store policy. At least that is what got me looking elsewhere and I liked what I saw in honeycomb. I am actually glad Apple is doing this now because the more you keep investing in the Apple eco-system the harder it becomes to leave. My belief is Apple will continue to tighten to control and some who would like to leave will have a hard time because they have to much media etc tied to the Apple eco system. By leaving now my investment is lower than it would have been.

Thus I am going to buy the xoom. Honeycomb looks fantastic.

Apple App store policy fallout has begun.

Now fanboys go ahead and tell me how I am going to regret it and come crawling back to Steve.

I am not afraid of Steve.

A reasonable idea, coming from a macrumors forum member! Great!

poloponies
Feb 18, 2011, 02:35 PM
Apple isn't requiring that content providers sell their ware solely through the App Store, only that they also make it available there for the same price that its offered elsewhere. They are still able to sell it outside of Apple's ecosystem for the the same price, sans Apple's 30%. That means that if Amazon sells a book for $10, buying through Amazon gives Amazon $10. Buying through the Kindle App will cost you $10, give Apple $3, and Amazon $7. But it doesn't mean you can't still buy it at Amazon say, from your computer and sync later.

If you have such a huge problem with Apple taking their cut for hosting the apps, processing payments, etc., continue to purchase your content elsewhere.

And for the obvious reason that if a Kindle book is $9.99 through Amazon directly that Amazon doesn't set a purchase-deterring price of $29.99 through the iPad's Kindle App.

Krandor
Feb 18, 2011, 03:01 PM
I want to consume my content from publisher I choose on device I bought (just like my desktop and laptop) without Apple meddling. That is why I am looking at Android.

No publishers have left iOS because of this policy yet and so because they possibly might in the future you are moving to Android. Sounds more like you already wanted to go andriod and this just gave you a reason. Just seems odd to switch on what might but hasn't happened.

Krandor
Feb 18, 2011, 03:05 PM
But the real reason I am jumping ship is the App store policy. At least that is what got me looking elsewhere and I liked what I saw in honeycomb. I am actually glad Apple is doing this now because the more you keep investing in the Apple eco-system the harder it becomes to leave. My belief is Apple will continue to tighten to control and some who would like to leave will have a hard time because they have to much media etc tied to the Apple eco system. By leaving now my investment is lower than it would have been.


and after you buy a bunch of apps and media through android you will have just as hard a time ever leaving them you would with iOS. Both the android and iOS ecosystems are the same in this respect. They want you to buy a bunch of stuff from them and then have a hard time leaving because you have an investment.

Mad Mac Maniac
Feb 18, 2011, 03:20 PM
Thus I am going to buy the xoom. Honeycomb looks fantastic.

Apple App store policy fallout has begun.

Now fanboys go ahead and tell me how I am going to regret it and come crawling back to Steve.

I am not afraid of Steve.

That doesn't make the least bit sense. The app store fallout from the subscription revenue? Why should that make you, the consumer, leave... it only makes the experience better for the consumer. The potential fallout is if all the devs leave iOS (like hulu, netflix, amazon etc). If this were to occur the app ecosystem would be crippled causing consumer dissatisfaction causing the users to leave.

You really can't leave now as a result of that. That's not rational. Unless you are predicting that Hulu, netflix etc will enivitably all leave prior to this summer, in which case you are protecting yourself from digging yourself further into the apple ecosystem. But I seriously, seriously doubt this is going to bite the consumer. either a) most of the devs will bit the bullet, b) apple will submit to some compromise, or c)apple will be ordered to change based on legal reasons. option d) all devs leaving and the app ecosystem crumbling on top of it self, is not going to happen. I can almost guarentee it

edit: and even if netflix, hulu, amazon etc leave, we already have the apps on our device. the only problem would be no more updates.

Thor74
Feb 18, 2011, 03:47 PM
Fath4More... Why did you start this thread if you are not trolling? No one in this forum cares what computer, phone or tablet you (or I) buy.

I have ALWAYS considered a "troll" to be a person that starts a thread for one of several main reasons - 1) lonely and looking for digital human interaction, even if it is someone yelling at them online.. 2) they want a good laugh while people get worked up over their staged comment(s) or 3) they are genuinely anti-(insert product name here) and start the flame war out of spite.

Faith4More, i'd bet $5 you fall into one of those 3 choices, so you fit my own idea of a troll just fine. Lets not have you pretend you did not start this thread planning it from the beginning for whatever reason you saw fit...

That being said, Mr. Troll, I encourage you to exercise your right to buy WHATEVER computer, phone or tablet that works best for your income, your technical needs or your moral/ethical compass. That's what is great the about choices we have nowadays with technology. But you are still a thread troll in my book.

faith4more
Feb 18, 2011, 04:04 PM
Really did not want to go to Android. Although after seeing Honeycomb I do. What I am doing is moving out now to make sure I don't get locked up by Apple. Problem is more apps you buy etc the harder it becomes to leave the platform. So I don't want to get stuck in the future. No publishers have left Apple but in my opinion handwriting is on the wall.

That being said I still own a boat load of Apple hardware that I will keep. Just sold my ipad that is all.

No publishers have left iOS because of this policy yet and so because they possibly might in the future you are moving to Android. Sounds more like you already wanted to go andriod and this just gave you a reason. Just seems odd to switch on what might but hasn't happened.

Mad Mac Maniac
Feb 18, 2011, 04:08 PM
Really did not want to go to Android. Although after seeing Honeycomb I do. What I am doing is moving out now to make sure I don't get locked up by Apple. Problem is more apps you buy etc the harder it becomes to leave the platform. So I don't want to get stuck in the future. No publishers have left Apple but in my opinion handwriting is on the wall.

No publishers will leave. But you can. It's not like it's our duty to keep you here. I just hope you aren't kicking yourself after this summer with iPad 2 and iOS 5

faith4more
Feb 18, 2011, 04:11 PM
I started it simply out of frustration with where Apple is going. If you consider a person a Troll who has spent thousands of dollars on Apple products and even encouraged others to do so but has become frustrated with Apple then so be it.

Yes I use a little humor in my posts. Yes I might even be guilty of trying to bring a few fanboys out but not out of spite. It is more because I like a good debate. Try not to attack anyone personally like you are doing.



Fath4More... Why did you start this thread if you are not trolling? No one in this forum cares what computer, phone or tablet you (or I) buy.

I have ALWAYS considered a "troll" to be a person that starts a thread for one of several main reasons - 1) lonely and looking for digital human interaction, even if it is someone yelling at them online.. 2) they want a good laugh while people get worked up over their staged comment(s) or 3) they are genuinely anti-(insert product name here) and start the flame war out of spite.

Faith4More, i'd bet $5 you fall into one of those 3 choices, so you fit my own idea of a troll just fine. Lets not have you pretend you did not start this thread planning it from the beginning for whatever reason you saw fit...

That being said, Mr. Troll, I encourage you to exercise your right to buy WHATEVER computer, phone or tablet that works best for your income, your technical needs or your moral/ethical compass. That's what is great the about choices we have nowadays with technology. But you are still a thread troll in my book.

Unless Apple compromises that is my prediction. Problem is I don't want to continue to invest and then Apple stay on this path.

That doesn't make the least bit sense. The app store fallout from the subscription revenue? Why should that make you, the consumer, leave... it only makes the experience better for the consumer. The potential fallout is if all the devs leave iOS (like hulu, netflix, amazon etc). If this were to occur the app ecosystem would be crippled causing consumer dissatisfaction causing the users to leave.

You really can't leave now as a result of that. That's not rational. Unless you are predicting that Hulu, netflix etc will enivitably all leave prior to this summer, in which case you are protecting yourself from digging yourself further into the apple ecosystem. But I seriously, seriously doubt this is going to bite the consumer. either a) most of the devs will bit the bullet, b) apple will submit to some compromise, or c)apple will be ordered to change based on legal reasons. option d) all devs leaving and the app ecosystem crumbling on top of it self, is not going to happen. I can almost guarentee it

edit: and even if netflix, hulu, amazon etc leave, we already have the apps on our device. the only problem would be no more updates.

Madmic23
Feb 18, 2011, 04:21 PM
I started it simply out of frustration with where Apple is going. If you consider a person a Troll who has spent thousands of dollars on Apple products and even encouraged others to do so but has become frustrated with Apple then so be it.

Yes I use a little humor in my posts. Yes I might even be guilty of trying to bring a few fanboys out but not out of spite. It is more because I like a good debate. Try not to attack anyone personally like you are doing.

I don't think you're a troll, just someone expressing frustration with the direction Apple is going. I see you're point of view and feel your frustration as well.

Piggie
Feb 18, 2011, 04:36 PM
I refuse point blank to buy any media tied to a specific piece of hardware.

I will make every effort to get my Music, Movies and Books from places that allow me to use the items on any device I buy this year, next year or in 5, 10, 20+ years time.

Apple hardware is nice, well designed and beautifully made, albeit perhaps not as cutting edge tech wise as I would like.
That I'm fine with.

However apart from apps for the device, games and utilities.
I refuse point blank to ever buy any media at all from Apple.

ZBoater
Feb 18, 2011, 04:49 PM
I don't think you're a troll, just someone expressing frustration with the direction Apple is going. I see you're point of view and feel your frustration as well.

+1

I love my iPad as it was truly a magical device. Seriously. The thing broke new ground and changed the way I consume electronic information. However, given a choice like the Xoom, and in light of Apple's policies, I'll jump ship in a heartbeat.

Apple already got some of my money, and for sure will make billions more. They won't miss me. :cool:

Consultant
Feb 18, 2011, 05:04 PM
While iOS is a closed marketplace, from a consumer's perspective its a better marketplace then google's as you have company over-seeing and approving what can be sold. The downside is that you have to live within their eco-system.

Wow, someone falls for Google marketing easily. So you are saying downside of iOS is "you have to live within their eco-system" in terms of Apps.

When did Android have the open, portable apps that are open to other platforms? Oh that's right, Android is closed to other platforms. PS. Android software isn't even open (compatible) to most Android devices, you have to live within the limited number of Android Java applets.

Answer me this, if Android is so open and successful, why are Android developers not making much money from it?

Funkymonk
Feb 18, 2011, 05:05 PM
Fath4More... Why did you start this thread if you are not trolling? No one in this forum cares what computer, phone or tablet you (or I) buy.

I have ALWAYS considered a "troll" to be a person that starts a thread for one of several main reasons - 1) lonely and looking for digital human interaction, even if it is someone yelling at them online.. 2) they want a good laugh while people get worked up over their staged comment(s) or 3) they are genuinely anti-(insert product name here) and start the flame war out of spite.

Faith4More, i'd bet $5 you fall into one of those 3 choices, so you fit my own idea of a troll just fine. Lets not have you pretend you did not start this thread planning it from the beginning for whatever reason you saw fit...

That being said, Mr. Troll, I encourage you to exercise your right to buy WHATEVER computer, phone or tablet that works best for your income, your technical needs or your moral/ethical compass. That's what is great the about choices we have nowadays with technology. But you are still a thread troll in my book.

You're kinda sounding like a troll now.

gatearray
Feb 18, 2011, 06:10 PM
Wow, so much moral outrage over things that may or may not be real from Android enthusiasts in the macrumors iPad forum!

Makes sense though when you think about it. Many of these same people are busting a nut over a piece of kit they've never seen, never touched, and that may or may not be real. They see this proposition through the rosiest rose-colored glass, though. After all, they want to customize their home page, dammit! :)

"Mean ol' Apple! You remind me of my Dad who won't let me stay out late or eat candy for dinner.... I HATE THIS PLACE!" [slams bedroom door and blasts Fall Out Boy at maximum volume]

Speaking of fallout, App Policy "fallout", really??? I dunno, sounds sort of made up... :)

Still, I never knew about the apparent high ethical and moral fiber of teenagers these days before reading this thread. Thanks for the insight, boys. ;)

GFLPraxis
Feb 18, 2011, 06:17 PM
- The subscription rules - seem quite overbearing, but I'm not a content provider so it doesn't affect me.


It may effect you if Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Ebay, etc pull their apps.

Gryzor
Feb 18, 2011, 06:53 PM
Apple continues to tighten control. I am a big Apple product user. Everyone in my family has an ios device. But this subscription policy just irks me and makes me wonder about future. I don't want to be locked into Apple forever but they continue to push down that road.

For the first time I am taking a serious look at Xoom. Honeycomb looks great. This is the first time I have looked away from ipad.

Let the fallout begin and the fanboys defend.
If you want to move to Honeycomb, do it. Don't go fishing for reasons why or why not in a forum, it's just the lowest form of trolling, but that was your intent, right? :rolleyes:

Nobody here is going to lose any sleep regardless.

ucfgrad93
Feb 18, 2011, 07:23 PM
It may effect you if Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Ebay, etc pull their apps.

Agreed, it only affects us IF those companies pull their apps.

Cha
Feb 18, 2011, 07:50 PM
Agreed, it only affects us IF those companies pull their apps.

I agree... it is a big IF right now, mainly because the majority of people willing to purchase apps seem to be on the iOS platforms. We'll have to see how that changes over time though.

hcho3
Feb 18, 2011, 07:55 PM
You talk like Xoom won't have any issues...

Android tablet is in first generation and this OS has yet to be proven. That alone scares me enough to stay away. Xoom also starts at 600 dollars. It's 100 dollars more than iPad. I don't want to pay more to get a tablet that is not proven yet by public.

By having apps like netflix on app store, netflix makes more money because they get more iOs users to sign up for netflix. Samething goes for everyone else including kindle, Hulu and etc.

Apple isn't a charity company. While I am not sure I agree with whole 30/70 split thing, I fully understand why apple is asking money from developers.

mabaker
Feb 18, 2011, 07:58 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

Loving the android fanboiis chiming in. As if subscribtion policies had any influence whatsoever on Apple's impeccable quality compared to the plasticness of 99% of android devices out there.

Cha
Feb 18, 2011, 08:03 PM
I fully understand why apple is asking money from developers.

Apple is providing the interface the exposes users to the apps and content. I can understand asking for money from most developers/publishers. But at the same time, companies like Amazon (I think) can pretty much stand on their own.

On the other hand, I only got Hulu Plus because of the iPad integration. I would have no problems dropping Hulu Plus if it leaves the iPad...

PhoneI
Feb 18, 2011, 09:07 PM
For those that are thinking about the Xoom, I would definitely consider Motorola's abysmal history on support of their products. Just ask the owners of the Cliq XT that got totally lied to from Motorola. If you do buy a Xoom, dont expect any upgrades. I have owned many Motorola devices in the past. I never will again.

I think 30 percent is a little excessive, but Apple has somewhat of a point. I never would have subscribed to Netflix or purchased a Kindle book, or subscribed to the Wall Street Journal and the NY Post (a little embarrassed about this one) if I did not own an iPad.

NDDL05
Feb 18, 2011, 09:15 PM
If you want to move to Honeycomb, do it. Don't go fishing for reasons why or why not in a forum, it's just the lowest form of trolling, but that was your intent, right? :rolleyes:

Nobody here is going to lose any sleep regardless.

Isn't that the entire point of a "forum" to begin with?

rienrah
Feb 18, 2011, 09:43 PM
Answer me this, if Android is so open and successful, why are Android developers not making much money from it?

Hey, I love Apple, but this point is flawed. There are many, many great products, even put out by strong companies, that fail for reasons other than lack of quality.

Whatever happened to Betamax? lol

yodaxl7
Feb 18, 2011, 11:23 PM
Really did not want to go to Android. Although after seeing Honeycomb I do. What I am doing is moving out now to make sure I don't get locked up by Apple. Problem is more apps you buy etc the harder it becomes to leave the platform. So I don't want to get stuck in the future. No publishers have left Apple but in my opinion handwriting is on the wall.

That being said I still own a boat load of Apple hardware that I will keep. Just sold my ipad that is all.

Honeycomb is not bad, but the ecosystem is not great. I am sure it will get better. I like my iPad a lot!! I am planning to get the iPad 2. I may keep the first one and jailbrake it. I am a new apple fanboy and proud. I never had a great experience with pc computers. However, in reflection, I think in the past the software was growing faster than hardware and now it is the reverse. Then again, flash is what killed most pc. I don't like the bloatware flash. So, enjoy flash on your honeycomb!! I bet the new iPad has 15 hour battery life. It is not about specs but rather value. As you know, best apps come to apple first.

jvmxtra
Feb 19, 2011, 12:10 AM
Honeycomb is not bad, but the ecosystem is not great. I am sure it will get better. I like my iPad a lot!! I am planning to get the iPad 2. I may keep the first one and jailbrake it. I am a new apple fanboy and proud. I never had a great experience with pc computers. However, in reflection, I think in the past the software was growing faster than hardware and now it is the reverse. Then again, flash is what killed most pc. I don't like the bloatware flash. So, enjoy flash on your honeycomb!! I bet the new iPad has 15 hour battery life. It is not about specs but rather value. As you know, best apps come to apple first.Agreed 100%

Mitchrapp
Feb 19, 2011, 12:34 AM
You talk like Xoom won't have any issues...

Android tablet is in first generation and this OS has yet to be proven. That alone scares me enough to stay away. Xoom also starts at 600 dollars. It's 100 dollars more than iPad. I don't want to pay more to get a tablet that is not proven yet by public.

By having apps like netflix on app store, netflix makes more money because they get more iOs users to sign up for netflix. Samething goes for everyone else including kindle, Hulu and etc.

Apple isn't a charity company. While I am not sure I agree with whole 30/70 split thing, I fully understand why apple is asking money from developers.

Making points are one thing but don't bring up 600 dollars when it has more things on it that the equivalent iPad. That's just dumb.

beg_ne
Feb 19, 2011, 12:55 AM
Making points are one thing but don't bring up 600 dollars when it has more things on it that the equivalent iPad. That's just dumb.

Speaking of dumb comparisons. Pretending like specs mean anything when you're comparing a not-even-released tablet vs. a tablet that has been out nearly a year and will most likely receive major hardware upgrades yearly.

yodaxl7
Feb 19, 2011, 01:03 AM
Making points are one thing but don't bring up 600 dollars when it has more things on it that the equivalent iPad. That's just dumb.

Also, it not just hardware specs. iPad 1 has over 60,000 apps. Plus, it has itune! It has time exclusive apps, ie. Deadspace from EA. Plus, Xoom is not yet and iPad 2 is likely to come out in April. You can also expect, there will be some exclusive apps taking advantage of iPad 2's hardware. By iPad 2, there will be 2nd or 3rd generation apps!!

Mitchrapp
Feb 19, 2011, 01:05 AM
Also, it not just hardware specs. iPad 1 has over 60,000 apps. Plus, it has itune! It has time exclusive apps, ie. Deadspace from EA. Plus, Xoom is not yet and iPad 2 is likely to come out in April. You can also expect, there will be some exclusive apps taking advantage of iPad 2's hardware. By iPad 2, there will be 2nd or 3rd generation apps!!

Then compare those, not the price. Who knows maybe the iPad 2 is 600.

Mitchrapp
Feb 19, 2011, 01:08 AM
And plus, don't use "and it has iTunes" -- iTunes is dated.

faith4more
Feb 19, 2011, 10:25 AM
Yes I thought this forum was for discussing positives and negatives. Don't understand why it so offensive to some to have competing products discussed here.

Isn't that the entire point of a "forum" to begin with?

zap2
Feb 19, 2011, 12:24 PM
And plus, don't use "and it has iTunes" -- iTunes is dated.

I very dependent on iTunes for my media, I have no problems with this either, for me, iTunes does a great job for music, videos and apps. For me iTunes is a plus.

petvas
Feb 19, 2011, 12:29 PM
One of the strongest things about iOS is its ecosystem. iTunes completes the whole user experience, so in my eyes it is very important to Apple. I also like it very much.

ucfgrad93
Feb 19, 2011, 12:38 PM
I very dependent on iTunes for my media, I have no problems with this either, for me, iTunes does a great job for music, videos and apps. For me iTunes is a plus.

Agreed, I really like iTunes. The ecosystem and the seamless integration between my iMac, MBP, & 2 iPhones is a huge plus to me. While the whole Apple ecosystem isn't perfect, for me the pros far outweigh the negatives.

maflynn
Feb 20, 2011, 07:18 AM
Agreed, I really like iTunes. The ecosystem and the seamless integration between my iMac, MBP, & 2 iPhones is a huge plus to me. While the whole Apple ecosystem isn't perfect, for me the pros far outweigh the negatives.

Agreed, while I had (still do) a brief stint with android, I noticed a glaring issue. The ease and simplicity of how Mac/iTunes/iPhone integrate so well. Once my contract ends, I'll be upgrading to an iPhone again.

Piggie
Feb 20, 2011, 08:04 AM
It does seem strange that some people can't seem to grasp the fact that others hate iTunes.
Enough to make them buy a tablet from someone else, specifically as it does not use iTunes.

maflynn
Feb 20, 2011, 08:05 AM
It does seem strange that some people can't seem to grasp the fact that others hate iTunes.
Enough to make them buy a tablet from someone else, specifically as it does not use iTunes.

I would go as far and say that some people don't like iOS, apple and apple products and specifically choose products that are not apple

Piggie
Feb 20, 2011, 08:14 AM
I would go as far and say that some people don't like iOS, apple and apple products and specifically choose products that are not apple

You may be right for some, but I have also heard people say they would love this of that, but just cannot stand iTunes.

Myself, I don't like the way your device is locked to one machine with iTunes. I think that's crazy that you can be at work and can't do things as you can only sync with your home PC or visa versa.

If iTunes did not exist and you told even Apple fans that, they would think that was a mad idea.

iTunes is way over complicated I think for what it does, how a beginner even starts to understand it I have no idea.

maflynn
Feb 20, 2011, 08:26 AM
iTunes is way over complicated I think for what it does, how a beginner even starts to understand it I have no idea.
I don't know about that, how complicated is a single app that plays music/videos, and syncs your iPad overly complicated.

I do not consider a product that would confuse a beginner, and if that would confuse someone, then an android based device would just blow them away with its complexity (which it generally doesn't).

PracticalMac
Feb 20, 2011, 08:36 AM
Apple continues to tighten control. I am a big Apple product user. Everyone in my family has an ios device. But this subscription policy just irks me and makes me wonder about future. I don't want to be locked into Apple forever but they continue to push down that road.

For the first time I am taking a serious look at Xoom. Honeycomb looks great. This is the first time I have looked away from ipad.

Let the fallout begin and the fanboys defend.

Like many here, I am concerned by what Apple is doing.

If they monopolize by exclusion, they are no better then Microsoft.

It should all be on the merits.

Piggie
Feb 20, 2011, 08:38 AM
I don't know about that, how complicated is a single app that plays music/videos, and syncs your iPad overly complicated.

I do not consider a product that would confuse a beginner, and if that would confuse someone, then an android based device would just blow them away with its complexity (which it generally doesn't).

Perhaps it's that all I want is a Photo's a Music and a Video folder on my PC and just be able to drag and drop items between my folder and my tablet.

I don't want to be confronted by a shop trying to sell me things when all I want is to copy some MP3's to my tablet.
The we have the file system, or lack of, meaning I then have to go to another page, find my app on a scroll down list and copy items into that apps file area and do a sync to get things in.

I also of course cannot point iTunes to my main data collections as it would try and sync too much to my iDevice.

All I really want is to take a tablet, plug it into any computer, via a standard USB cable and drag/drop any files between the two items.
No more than that. Nice and simple.

I don't want to be presented with an advert for buying the Beatles, when I run my file transfer program.

poloponies
Feb 20, 2011, 09:11 AM
Perhaps it's that all I want is a Photo's a Music and a Video folder on my PC and just be able to drag and drop items between my folder and my tablet.

I don't want to be confronted by a shop trying to sell me things when all I want is to copy some MP3's to my tablet.
The we have the file system, or lack of, meaning I then have to go to another page, find my app on a scroll down list and copy items into that apps file area and do a sync to get things in.

I also of course cannot point iTunes to my main data collections as it would try and sync too much to my iDevice.

All I really want is to take a tablet, plug it into any computer, via a standard USB cable and drag/drop any files between the two items.
No more than that. Nice and simple.

I don't want to be presented with an advert for buying the Beatles, when I run my file transfer program.

Your credibility drops even further when you spout this sort of nonsense. There's no "shop selling you things" or "adverts" involved in iTunes transfers (do you even own an iPad?). It's true that the Apple Store is accessible through iTunes, but it's only there when you access it. As for dragging and dropping content, I do it all the time with iTunes. You can transfer music, video and book files from any folder to your iPad without first transferring to iTunes. Yes, you need iTunes open to access the iPad, but that's all you need to do, open it.

sweetpoh
Mar 3, 2011, 03:22 PM
You'll be surprised how many of us already had Netflix sub watching on our TVs before the iPad came out. So it's just an addition, another way to watch. We're not paying double. Lol.

And what's your definition of old, a few months -- it's not like they have movies just from the 40s and 50s.


+1 I had netflix long before I purchased an iPad. I love netflix for their huge selection of foreign films. Good luck finding them at redbox or the local video store(if we had one). Now my wife can lay in bed and watch a movie of her choice while I view on the tv or vice versa. Netflix is awesome!! I don't buy DVD's anymore and get to see all of the movies I want to. If I have to wait 30 days it isn't a big deal to me. Netflix saves me money by not buying DVD's. :)