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graubereich
Feb 23, 2011, 04:30 AM
Has anyone suggestions if ROSETTA will be available in 10.7 Lion?

I'm using an old software daily which needs rosetta to run on Snow Leopard.



Thanks for your suggestions.



mrkramer
Feb 23, 2011, 04:40 AM
Nobody knows for sure, but I would guess that they will keep it as an optional install. There's no real reason for them to get rid of it. My guess is it stays around as an optional install until computers are powerful enough that any PPC only software can be run on 10.5 in a virtual machine.

graubereich
Feb 24, 2011, 02:43 PM
Lion preview is there - any News about Rosetta yet?

Phil A.
Feb 24, 2011, 05:02 PM
No rosetta in Lion I'm afraid

graubereich
Feb 24, 2011, 05:31 PM
No optional install for sure?

Phil A.
Feb 24, 2011, 05:40 PM
No optional install for sure?

Pretty sure. When you try and run a Java app for the first time, it offers you an optional java install. When you try and run a rosetta app you just get the following message:

"You can't open the application ApplicationName because PowerPC applications are no longer supported"

Graeme43
Feb 24, 2011, 05:41 PM
Pretty sure. When you try and run a Java app for the first time, it offers you an optional java install. When you try and run a rosetta app you just get the following message:

"You can't open the application ApplicationName because PowerPC applications are no longer supported"

Damn :(

Mr. Retrofire
Feb 24, 2011, 05:47 PM
Pretty sure. When you try and run a Java app for the first time, it offers you an optional java install. When you try and run a rosetta app you just get the following message:

"You can't open the application ApplicationName because PowerPC applications are no longer supported"

Did you try to install Rosetta from the Snow Leopard DVD:
/Volumes/Mac OS X Install DVD/System/Installation/Packages/Rosetta.pkg

???

I know it needs probably kernel support.

Phil A.
Feb 24, 2011, 05:52 PM
Did you try to install Rosetta from the Snow Leopard DVD:
/Volumes/Mac OS X Install DVD/System/Installation/Packages/Rosetta.pkg

???

I know it needs probably kernel support.

Rosetta installed without any errors, but it still gives the same error trying to start up a PowerPC application

Mr. Retrofire
Feb 24, 2011, 05:56 PM
Rosetta installed without any errors, but it still gives the same error trying to start up a PowerPC application

Phil, thanks for the info! :)

Damn! :mad:

Phil A.
Feb 24, 2011, 06:04 PM
Phil, thanks for the info! :)

Damn! :mad:

No worries. It is a bit of a pain, though because I've still got a couple of old PowerPC apps I need to run occasionally.

graubereich
Feb 24, 2011, 06:16 PM
Hm, do you think in the Final Version there will be any Chance or Trick?
I have tons of freehand Files and still like to work with it......

ajvizzgamer101
Feb 24, 2011, 06:58 PM
No worries. It is a bit of a pain, though because I've still got a couple of old PowerPC apps I need to run occasionally.

Aren't there alternatives to those apps? What apps are they?

Phil A.
Feb 24, 2011, 07:04 PM
Aren't there alternatives to those apps? What apps are they?

Mac the Ripper and Dropbook are two that I noticed. To be honest, I didn't even know they were PowerPC apps until Lion refused to run them :)

I don't tend to use Mac The Ripper nowadays as I normally buy media through the iTunes store now, but Dropbook is useful when converting ebooks from one format to another

parkds
Feb 24, 2011, 07:09 PM
This is also an issue for Nikon scanners. Nikon Scan 4 was the last version developed. There is other scanning software out there that knows how to utilize the ICE, GEM, ROC, and DEE features of the scanners, but as far as I know they are very expensive.

graubereich
Feb 24, 2011, 08:09 PM
Aren't there alternatives to those apps? What apps are they?

The only real alternative to FREEHAND is Illustrator...... But Freehand is the best tool ever :-(

I hope there will be any solution to run it under Lion.....

graubereich
Feb 25, 2011, 11:10 AM
How are your opinions - any chances that apple only disabled rosetta in the beta stadium of lion?

Plymouthbreezer
Feb 25, 2011, 01:19 PM
How are your opinions - any chances that apple only disabled rosetta in the beta stadium of lion?
My guess is that it would be included from the get-go...

All good things must come to and end; the death of Rosetta might prompt new software development, resulting in additional functionality and better programs (to replace the ones that are no longer supported in Lion).

Axemantitan
Feb 25, 2011, 06:37 PM
There is no Rosetta in Lion (screenshots included in link). (http://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/fsgbz/what_we_know_about_mac_os_x_lion/c1iafol)

graubereich
Feb 26, 2011, 02:21 AM
There is no Rosetta in Lion (screenshots included in link). (http://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/fsgbz/what_we_know_about_mac_os_x_lion/c1iafol)



Thanks for the link.
I hope this tatement in this duscussion has a achance:
I would guess (purely speculate) that there will soon be an unofficial way to install rosetta. Someone will determine which kexts etc. are needed to run rosetta and then you'll be able to copy those over from an OS X 10.6 install. Just guessing, but I can't see why it wouldn't happen.

mif
Feb 26, 2011, 09:36 AM
Just use link.:p

http://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/a72597b25d.JPG

jsalzer
Mar 4, 2011, 06:58 PM
All good things must come to and end; the death of Rosetta might prompt new software development, resulting in additional functionality and better programs (to replace the ones that are no longer supported in Lion).

I don't suppose it will prompt Apple to release a CW/AW viewer, or even add the capacity for Preview to open them for viewing purposes.

Oh, well. Guess it's time to figure out a way to open and print to PDF a few thousand old files for reference purposes. Anyone have a trick for doing this in bulk?

:)

Graeme43
Mar 4, 2011, 07:08 PM
Programs like Spy (OSX) from the Mac OS 9 area which I put the bracket on because they made an OS 10 version and there is no way it will be updated but I will give you guys a demonstration of what it does - if you visit here - http://109.154.208.78:2011/ - it will show my desktop and some info beside it (Until my IP changes lol).. I will lose this with 10.7 as it isn't going to be unavailble to me :(

DirtySocks85
Mar 4, 2011, 10:16 PM
Mac the Ripper and Dropbook are two that I noticed. To be honest, I didn't even know they were PowerPC apps until Lion refused to run them :)

I don't tend to use Mac The Ripper nowadays as I normally buy media through the iTunes store now, but Dropbook is useful when converting ebooks from one format to another

I too didn't know that Mac the Ripper was a PowerPC app and required Rosetta. Hopefully it finally gets updated and/or something else comes to my attention that will perform the same tasks (although there isn't much else out there right now). Mac the Ripper + Handbrake was a very powerful toolset for DVD ripping.

newfoundglory
Mar 5, 2011, 01:54 PM
Thanks for the link.
I hope this tatement in this duscussion has a achance:
I would guess (purely speculate) that there will soon be an unofficial way to install rosetta. Someone will determine which kexts etc. are needed to run rosetta and then you'll be able to copy those over from an OS X 10.6 install. Just guessing, but I can't see why it wouldn't happen.

I haven't tried installing Rosetta in Lion, but to me it sounds like at the moment Lion is simply asking itself the question "is this a PowerPC application?". If yes, just fail. Doesn't sound like its even loading the extensions, but someone should check in Console for errors. There may be nothing wrong with Rosetta kext's, because Rosetta already previously worked in Snow Leopard with the 64bit kernel.

An example where things aren't quite so sunny.... I tried to bring native read/write ZFS support to Lion using the binaries from Snow Leopard beta 10a286. But, it fails because of the 64 bit kernel, and expects symbols in libkern which aren't present. As such, Lion can't load the extensions. It should be possible to get ZFS working by applying a patch for the missing symbols and re-compiling libkern from xnu sources (which worked for SL builds 10.6.1 and beyond).

I predict no Rosetta support in Lion GM build... because Apple has been shipping Intel Macs for over 5 years..... thats half a decade....

Mr. Retrofire
Mar 5, 2011, 06:21 PM
I haven't tried installing Rosetta in Lion, but to me it sounds like at the moment Lion is simply asking itself the question "is this a PowerPC application?". If yes, just fail. Doesn't sound like its even loading the extensions, but someone should check in Console for errors. There may be nothing wrong with Rosetta kext's, because Rosetta already previously worked in Snow Leopard with the 64bit kernel.

Rosetta does not support kernel extensions (kext) and does not load kernel extensions.

I tried to bring native read/write ZFS support to Lion using the binaries from Snow Leopard beta 10a286. But, it fails because of the 64 bit kernel, and expects symbols in libkern which aren't present.

Only kernel extensions compiled with Xcode 4.1 or newer are compatible with Lion. Apple has a special version of Xcode 4 for their own development teams.

Mr. Retrofire
Mar 6, 2011, 02:54 AM
If you have installed Rosetta in Lion, try this:
http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=2009101505134452

Does it work? Because it has also something to do with the Mac OS X Launch Services, it could be necessary to logout/login after you have executed these commands (do not restart because this will reset the sysctl info).

newfoundglory
Mar 6, 2011, 04:55 AM
Apple has a special version of Xcode 4 for their own development teams.

Do you know what this is for and how its different?

graubereich
Mar 6, 2011, 06:51 AM
Is anybody here giving ROSETTA a chance being included in lion?
Or do you all thing the beta of lion gives the final answer right now and rosetta will be killed by apple?

Mr. Retrofire
Mar 6, 2011, 06:52 AM
Do you know what this is for and how its different?

I think it contains changes for newer devices like the iPad 2, and probably bug fixes which are now also available in Xcode 4 GM seed No. 2. You need Xcode 4 GM seed No. 2 to develop iOS 4.3 apps.

mrkramer
Mar 6, 2011, 06:54 AM
Is anybody here giving ROSETTA a chance being included in lion?
Or do you all thing the beta of lion gives the final answer right now and rosetta will be killed by apple?

I'm not giving it much chance. I thought it would make sense for them to leave it in, but since it's not in the beta I would be very surprised if they added it back.

newfoundglory
Mar 6, 2011, 07:54 AM
If you have installed Rosetta in Lion, try this:
http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=2009101505134452

Does it work? Because it has also something to do with the Mac OS X Launch Services, it could be necessary to logout/login after you have executed these commands (do not restart because this will reset the sysctl info).

A good idea, but no luck on this one. When I installed Rosetta, it changed it automatically so it is the translator binary and there is no need to change manually using sysctl... but Lion still says PowerPC apps are no longer supported. I tried running the rosetta translator binary using Terminal and it crashed with a segmentation fault: 11


Process: translate [542]
Path: /usr/libexec/oah/translate
Identifier: translate
Version: ??? (???)
Code Type: PPC (Translated)
Parent Process: sh [482]

Date/Time: 2011-03-06 11:20:15.449 +0000
OS Version: Mac OS X 10.7 (11A390)
Report Version: 8

Crashed Thread: 0 Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV)
Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x00000000ffff8020

graubereich
Mar 31, 2011, 11:23 AM
Anything new here in the today released Dev Preview 2?

Will Rosetta have any chance?

jeznav
Mar 31, 2011, 01:39 PM
Anything new here in the today released Dev Preview 2?

Will Rosetta have any chance?

I've looked at the Lion's API Framework diff and a bunch of dynamic libraries and it seems that they transitioned from x64,ppc,x86 to just x64,x86.

Without the ppc binary component in these frameworks, even if someone manage to install Rosetta, PPC applications will not work because of the missing ppc components in the System's Frameworks.

In other words, everything in Lion is no longer Universal Binary.


I tried running the rosetta translator binary using Terminal and it crashed with a segmentation fault: 11


It's crashing because the System's API no longer has PPC code in it.

graubereich
Mar 31, 2011, 04:22 PM
I've looked at the Lion's API Framework diff and a bunch of dynamic libraries and it seems that they transitioned from x64,ppc,x86 to just x64,x86.

Without the ppc binary component in these frameworks, even if someone manage to install Rosetta, PPC applications will not work because of the missing ppc components in the System's Frameworks.

In other words, everything in Lion is no longer Universal Binary.




It's crashing because the System's API no longer has PPC code in it.



Damn......
If i understand your words:

It's 100% - no Rosetta Software as Freehand wil ever work on Lion?

Chances lion will include Rosetta till the final rlease date are 0%?

Tmelon
Mar 31, 2011, 04:24 PM
Damn......
If i understand your words:

It's 100% - no Rosetta Software as Freehand wil ever work on Lion?

Chances lion will include Rosetta till the final rlease date are 0%?

The only reason people would ever need Rosetta is for old games. I honestly couldn't care less about the loss of Rosetta. If you need it then don't upgrade, it's as easy as that.

graubereich
Mar 31, 2011, 05:05 PM
The only reason people would ever need Rosetta is for old games. I honestly couldn't care less about the loss of Rosetta. If you need it then don't upgrade, it's as easy as that.

If new Macs would Runder under SnowLeopard it would be so easy.

But new Macs will only boot with Lion......
So i can't buy a new Mac from Day one Lion is default System on new Macs later this year.



ROSETTA is my only hope!

roadbloc
Mar 31, 2011, 05:19 PM
ROSETTA is my only hope!
Correction: Staying on Snow Leopard is your only hope. Apple aren't going to shoot you if you don't upgrade. Stick to what works for you, Snow Leopards got at the very least another 2 years of life left in it. Maybe then you can find a Intel replacement for your PPC programs and be able to upgrade.

No-one is forcing you to go to lion.

Tmelon
Mar 31, 2011, 05:21 PM
If new Macs would Runder under SnowLeopard it would be so easy.

But new Macs will only boot with Lion......
So i can't buy a new Mac from Day one Lion is default System on new Macs later this year.



ROSETTA is my only hope!

Any software you use will most likely be updated (or should have been updated years ago) so it wouldn't need Rosetta.

graubereich
Mar 31, 2011, 05:35 PM
Yeah, but freehand is the Problem....


http://freefreehand.org

Jolly Jimmy
Mar 31, 2011, 06:00 PM
I suppose I'll finally have to let go of Age of Empires II :p

jsalzer
Mar 31, 2011, 07:58 PM
The only reason people would ever need Rosetta is for old games. I honestly couldn't care less about the loss of Rosetta...

I have hundreds of ClarisWorks / AppleWorks documents that beg to disagree. Many of us old-timers may have historical documents and forms that will become inaccessible.

I don't blame Apple for moving on, but it's darn inconvenient.

newfoundglory
Apr 1, 2011, 02:35 PM
If new Macs would Runder under SnowLeopard it would be so easy.

But new Macs will only boot with Lion......
So i can't buy a new Mac from Day one Lion is default System on new Macs later this year.



ROSETTA is my only hope!

Crossover for Mac

Look here: http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/search/?name=freehand

You will need the windows version of freehand mx, though, as it will be emulating the Windows API rather then the PowerPC instruction set - you might even find the performance of FreeHand MX is better than the Mac version running under Rosetta. Note that it has a gold rating!

If you must use PowerPC mac applications, then partition your Mac hard drive and install both 10.6 and 10.7 and switch by holding option on startup .... OR install 10.6 in a virtual machine on a 10.7 host if you do not have a Mac that will boot 10.6

There are plenty of options here, people!

Riemann Zeta
Apr 1, 2011, 09:33 PM
It really sucks that Apple is killing Rosetta just for ***** and giggles. While the only pure PPC program that I have installed is UnaceX, there are still programs with latent PPC code lurking: say, for example, a program that is technically a fat binary (once installed), but has a crappy old PPC-based installer. What did Rosetta ever do to harm anyone; was its 2.5MB installation requirement just too much for Apple to bear?

Edit: Actually, disregard that previous statement. I didn't realize that Lion does away with Universal binaries and Frameworks, so there is literally no way of supporting anything non-intel.

mac1984user
Apr 10, 2011, 09:49 AM
I am very disappointed by the news that Rosetta is disappearing. I have quite a few programs that require Rosetta to run. Photoshop CS is a good example as well as some scanning software that doesn't get regular updates. Some of those responding on this thread have said, 'Don't upgrade'. Well that doesn't really work, does it? If I don't upgrade to OS 10.7, I will be left in the dark within the next couple years. There will be some programs that will require it to work. If I DO get OS 10.7, I'm abandoning a dozen or so applications I use on a regular basis. Why should I have to go and fork out the cash for Photoshop CS5, when PS CS1 does everything I need? It would be nice if there was a small emulation environment we could get running, but I fear we'll have to rely on VirtualBox to emulate 10.6/10.5 and THAT is highly inconvenient.

xIGmanIx
Apr 10, 2011, 10:00 AM
And your surprised by Apple limiting their support scope why?

mac1984user
Apr 10, 2011, 01:46 PM
And your surprised by Apple limiting their support scope why?

I never said surprised...I said 'disappointed'. =) I've come to expect this kind of s*** from Apple, which is why I'll probably have to go through the trouble of including a second partition for a Snow Leopard install after I upgrade to Lion. Seems a waste of my time, though.

xIGmanIx
Apr 10, 2011, 02:32 PM
Haha, I stand corrected. Dare you dual boot windows 7?gasp!!
I never said surprised...I said 'disappointed'. =) I've come to expect this kind of s*** from Apple, which is why I'll probably have to go through the trouble of including a second partition for a Snow Leopard install after I upgrade to Lion. Seems a waste of my time, though.

mac1984user
Apr 11, 2011, 03:04 AM
Haha, I stand corrected. Dare you dual boot windows 7?gasp!!

So you're telling me I need to have THREE partitions on my Mac!? I'm going to need a bigger HDD. =) This is why I cannot switch to SDD just yet - there simply isn't enough room (for the money). I'm starting to feel stretched with 500GB on my MBP. I like having external HD's, but I don't like having to RELY on them when it's supposed to be 'mobile computing'. =)

zap2
Apr 11, 2011, 03:33 AM
Not unreasonable at all IMO.

They dropped classic support in 2007 and in 2002 during a keynote Jobs held a funeral for OS 9 for laughs.(and announced no more developing for OS 9) The last machine with OS 9 shipped in 2003.(as far as I can tell) So that 4 or 5 year seems reasonable for PowerPC as well as. PowerPC were totally out of Apple's line up in 2006, its now 2011.

mac1984user
Apr 13, 2011, 07:30 AM
@zap2 - You say it's not unreasonable to drop support for an old architecture after five years, nevermind the perfectly good software still capable of running on it. The thing is...Apple is in a league of its own on this one. I've not run into a similar issue with Windows or Linux. Sure, programs that came out in 1998 are a bit finicky on a Windows 7 machine, but with the compatibility mode, I'm surprised at all the things that still function natively on the Windows 7 machine. I recently installed and played 'The Last Express', a game released in 1997 and didn't even have to bother with compatibility mode. Now, Mac OS and Windows are apples and oranges - I get it. It would just be nice if I could run a few productivity programs I purchased in 2005 without having to do it in a virtual machine. That's all I'm saying. Rosetta was the answer for that.

Mac OS 9 and X were vastly different, and if you wanted to push a new operating system, you had to get people off of OS 9. However, what would hurt by allowing OS X users access to older programs? We're still buying Macs and we're still running the latest version of the OS. Why penalize us? In the early 2000s, people were actively avoiding OS X and opting for 9. Apple had to pull those customers back in by dropping support. Today, how many people are clinging to their G4s with no intention to upgrade because Apple changed its architecture. Not many, I'm sure.

Mr. Mellow
Apr 26, 2011, 03:28 AM
I'll probably install Lion on my MacBook Air for giggles, and pick up a used Mini to run Snow Leopard with my 21" Cinema Display for PowerPC software I'm not willing to spend $Hundreds to replace:

Adobe Creative Suite CS
MS Office 2004
Rosetta Stone and other Spanish apps
Pages '05

I'm the kind of person who will drive a car for 20 years (I have). I used my PowerMac 6100/66 Dos Compatible from 1993 to 2005, when I finally gave up my System 7 and DOS apps. If something works for me, I keep using it. I still use my PowerBook because I'm not willing to buy new versions of these OS 9 apps, and OS X apps that don't run well under Rosetta:

OS 9

Mathematica
VectorWorks
Quark XPress
Doom II
Troubled Souls
A-10 Cuba
F-18 Hornet

OS X on PowerBook

Macromedia Studio MX 2004
Maya
iWork '05 (Pages runs in Rosetta but Keynote doesn't)

mrkramer
Apr 26, 2011, 03:52 AM
I'll probably install Lion on my MacBook Air for giggles, and pick up a used Mini to run Snow Leopard with my 21" Cinema Display for PowerPC software I'm not willing to spend $Hundreds to replace:

Adobe Creative Suite CS
MS Office 2004
Rosetta Stone and other Spanish apps
Pages '05

I'm the kind of person who will drive a car for 20 years (I have). I used my PowerMac 6100/66 Dos Compatible from 1993 to 2005, when I finally gave up my System 7 and DOS apps. If something works for me, I keep using it. I still use my PowerBook because I'm not willing to buy new versions of these OS 9 apps, and OS X apps that don't run well under Rosetta:

OS 9

Mathematica
VectorWorks
Quark XPress
Doom II
Troubled Souls
A-10 Cuba
F-18 Hornet

OS X on PowerBook

Macromedia Studio MX 2004
Maya
iWork '05 (Pages runs in Rosetta but Keynote doesn't)

Why not pick up an old G5 tower, it'll probably be faster than an intel mini for PowerPC apps, and it might be cheaper too.

Mactrillionaire
Apr 27, 2011, 02:17 PM
This is one of the reasons I wouldn't upgrade right away. Just be patient as someone is bound to release a Rosetta emulator as there are fully functional emulators to run all Mac software going back to System 6 (vMac for 6 to 7.5.1 and SheepSaver for 7.5.2 through all of 9).

Riemann Zeta
Apr 27, 2011, 04:57 PM
The way Lion and its Frameworks are programmed, it looks like the only way to have Rosetta will be to run Snow Leopard in a VM.

biggerboy
Apr 30, 2011, 04:07 PM
...Quicken 2007. Intuit still hasn't released a feature-parity version of Quicken that's native Intel. Quicken Essentials is a complete joke. This might finally push me away from Quicken after 17 years of use... or just stick w/Snow Leopard.

Of course, it wouldn't a Quicken complaint without noting that Bill Campbell, Chairman of Intuit is still on the Apple board...

graubereich
May 3, 2011, 12:28 PM
The way Lion and its Frameworks are programmed, it looks like the only way to have Rosetta will be to run Snow Leopard in a VM.

Isn't there any Chance someone is going to mack a workaround or something to run Rosetta Apps in Loin?

I need Freehand for the next 5 years i guess.....

rabsparks
May 17, 2011, 01:49 PM
Ipso facto, no running Quicken in Lion. Therefore no Lion on my computer.

rabsparks
May 17, 2011, 02:03 PM
I have a spouse who is a Windows fan, whereas I am a solid Mac guy. Every time we have a "discussion" about switching her over to the Mac, she brings up the various incompatibilities in my software as the OSs changed through the years.

What's worse is that I have no idea how to fix whatever has gone wrong in her laptop or desktop. I know my Macs and I can usually fix the problem with them, but not her PCs. So if she has a problem with a PC, her only choice is to call my nephew (27 and a very busy engineer), and wait for him to come over.

Every time I upgrade the OS, I lose "something" that I learned to love over the years. Screen savers, utilities, and now an app (Quicken in Lion) have all bitten the proverbial dust. I have gone through a wide range of charts and articles about what isn't going to work on 10.6.x or 10.7, which did work on the PPC. This while her software (Publisher) still runs on her current OS and her Dell computers. And in her mind, there is nothing in the Mac that can compete with Publisher.

I appreciate everything that Steve Jobs has done for us. Truly I do. But I'm somewhat tired of living with Steve's idiosyncrasies. Really I am.

KurtangleTN
May 17, 2011, 02:41 PM
There is no real logical reason to cut Rosetta. Rosetta doesn't slow down anything, it's not a bloated outdated software. It's there if you need it, if you don't you will never know it existed.

Just seems like another slap in the face to long time users by Apple, to be honest.

johnfkitchen
May 18, 2011, 05:05 PM
It'd be a messy workaround, but might it be possible to virtualize Snow Leopard under Lion? (As Fusion and Parallels do for other OSs.)

Mr. Retrofire
May 18, 2011, 08:12 PM
It'd be a messy workaround, but might it be possible to virtualize Snow Leopard under Lion? (As Fusion and Parallels do for other OSs.)

VMware Fusion 4.0 (Lion compatible) supports Snow Leopard Server (32 & 64 Bit). The usual workarounds should allow you to install Snow Leopard Client within VMware Fusion 4.0.

I'm sure VMware will release a compatibility update, for all Fusion v3.x.x users, so that they are not forced to upgrade to v4.x.x, if they want to use Fusion under Lion.

Please do not ask me for Fusion 4.0 download links! It is a closed beta program.

KurtangleTN
May 21, 2011, 07:32 AM
Correction: Staying on Snow Leopard is your only hope. Apple aren't going to shoot you if you don't upgrade. Stick to what works for you, Snow Leopards got at the very least another 2 years of life left in it. Maybe then you can find a Intel replacement for your PPC programs and be able to upgrade.

No-one is forcing you to go to lion.

The issue with that is that Apple has a very agitating way to get you to upgrade. Whether that means new software (iLife 12) only works on Lion, future hardware only works on Lion (iPhone 5/6 anyone, future peripherals), Safari versions, etc etc. They support XP far better then they do even Leopard.

I mean what the hell is the gain of losing it as an optional install? It's just Apple trying to assert control over it's users in the most annoying way possible. At this point it probably took them more time and effort to remove it then it would have to keep it in (since it's not a software that's going to break or require much support) Why in the hell should Apple care if users are fine using Word 04, or have certain programs which were never updated.. it's just ridiculously stupid. Obviously the fact that they can control every aspect of the iPhone's has gone to their head.

graubereich
May 23, 2011, 10:12 AM
Do you thing on the WWDC coming up in a few weeks some developers will talk to apple and assure them that they don't drop rosetta?

I hope there is still a chance for rosetta in the golden master of Lion.

Riemann Zeta
May 23, 2011, 10:43 AM
Sadly, I doubt that it will be included. The kernel, all kernel extensions and frameworks and dynlib binaries for Lion are x86/ARM only. So even if the little Rosetta binary translator were to be installed, there would be zero support libraries, headers, APIs or function stubs. And since Lion is already on the third beta, nearing feature completeness, there is no chance.

ActionableMango
May 23, 2011, 08:28 PM
I imagine it is possible to run PPC apps on Lion computers. You'll need to run it in an OS X virtual machine using software such as Parallels or Fusion. Snow Leopard Server is authorized to run in a VM. I haven't tried Fusion, but I know with Parallels there is a way to hide the guest OS desktop such that its apps appear to be running on the host OS, even with such things as copy/paste support.

MacTower
May 23, 2011, 11:32 PM
Do you thing on the WWDC coming up in a few weeks some developers will talk to apple and assure them that they don't drop rosetta?


Of course not. Any developer responsible and engaged enough to be in attendance at WWDC will most certainly have long since ported all of their legacy PPC code to x86.

I'm sorry to tell you, but this just isn't going to happen. There really is no good reason for Apple to keep maintaining this software into the future. It's not as simple as just 'dropping in' the Rosetta of Leopard and Snow Leopard to Lion. They would essentially be putting time and effort (read: money) into a feature that serves only to enable software whose creator did not put that time and effort forth in creating a native x86 version. They were willing to do this in the PPC to Intel transition years so everyone didn't jump ship, but it's been long enough now that everyone who had any intention of catching up has done so.

Honestly, any software that hasn't had an update since the PPC era is probably bordering obsolete. Of course this point can be argued, and there are exceptions, but it is generally true. Lots of deprecation in API's has occurred since then, so Rosetta would not only have to be a binary translation system, it would have to induce bloat into the OS by including years worth of deprecated code.

Leopard and Snow Leopard will continue to be great OS', and if the lack of Rosetta is a deal-breaker for you, then I suggest sticking with what works for you and what you do with it. If you have to get the latest and greatest mac, well, get it--but also get a G5 tower on craigslist for $100 bucks and you can run your PPC applications on the hardware they were built for.

Yamcha
May 25, 2011, 07:40 PM
I'm pretty disappointed that rosetta has been dropped, there are lot of applications and games I can no longer run =/ No alternative either..

I'd hate to have to run rosetta using vmware or parallels just to run these applications, its messy, uses a lot more resources and its just an inconvenience..

johnfkitchen
May 25, 2011, 08:21 PM
Do you thing on the WWDC coming up in a few weeks some developers will talk to apple and assure them that they don't drop rosetta?

I hope there is still a chance for rosetta in the golden master of Lion.

It's not the developers who want it, it's the people who use applications that depend on it such as AppleWorks.

http://support.apple.com/downloads/AppleWorks_6_2_9_for_Mac

To quote from the above link:-
"AppleWorks — the most popular program on the Mac — is really several applications in one. It gives you six core capabilities (and a number of combinations thereof): word processing, spreadsheet, database, presentation, drawing and painting. AppleWorks 6 works the way people think and work — and that extends the capabilities of the people using it.

AppleWorks is a compactly designed and elegantly engineered multifunctional program with a remarkably small memory requirement. Best of all, AppleWorks doesn’t take up nearly as much hard disk space as six applications, and needs nowhere near as much memory."

I have a friend whose business is essentially run on AppleWorks. Fortunately, he's a late adopter, so he will be on Snow Leopard for a while, but ultimately, he needs a solution.

Mal
May 25, 2011, 09:08 PM
I have a friend whose business is essentially run on AppleWorks. Fortunately, he's a late adopter, so he will be on Snow Leopard for a while, but ultimately, he needs a solution.

Obviously a late adopter. AppleWorks hasn't been sold since 2006. Anyone counting on continuing to run it should know they're setting themselves up for disaster.

jW

Synaesthesia242
May 26, 2011, 01:51 AM
My sister absolutely uses Macromedia Freehand every day in her work as a designer.

If you're like her and need a rosetta app, yeah, stick to Snow Leopard until you find a solution.

jasonp99
May 26, 2011, 08:40 AM
I just upgraded my QS G4 to a 2011 MBP and love it. However I was very glad to see that Quicken 2002 still runs under Rosetta (lost Photoshop 7 though). Probably won't upgrade to Lion until I find a suitable Quicken replacement, which definitely won't be Quicken Essentials. Possibly SEE Financial, read some good reviews about that.

Reasec
May 26, 2011, 08:59 AM
Rosetta is obsolete. Time to move on...

chrfr
May 26, 2011, 10:38 AM
I hope there is still a chance for rosetta in the golden master of Lion.

There is no chance. None.

Yamcha
May 28, 2011, 01:12 PM
@zap2 - You say it's not unreasonable to drop support for an old architecture after five years, nevermind the perfectly good software still capable of running on it. The thing is...Apple is in a league of its own on this one. I've not run into a similar issue with Windows or Linux. Sure, programs that came out in 1998 are a bit finicky on a Windows 7 machine, but with the compatibility mode, I'm surprised at all the things that still function natively on the Windows 7 machine. I recently installed and played 'The Last Express', a game released in 1997 and didn't even have to bother with compatibility mode. Now, Mac OS and Windows are apples and oranges - I get it. It would just be nice if I could run a few productivity programs I purchased in 2005 without having to do it in a virtual machine. That's all I'm saying. Rosetta was the answer for that.

Mac OS 9 and X were vastly different, and if you wanted to push a new operating system, you had to get people off of OS 9. However, what would hurt by allowing OS X users access to older programs? We're still buying Macs and we're still running the latest version of the OS. Why penalize us? In the early 2000s, people were actively avoiding OS X and opting for 9. Apple had to pull those customers back in by dropping support. Today, how many people are clinging to their G4s with no intention to upgrade because Apple changed its architecture. Not many, I'm sure.

I Agree, I'd be happier if Mac still had support for rosetta, now personally for my web design work I don't rely on any old software, I always make the necessary upgrades, however there are lot of old games & emulators that I enjoyed playing/using, which I can no longer use, and there are really no alternatives, there is no continued support for really old emulators, and without rosetta I cannot play games like Age of Empires or Diablo 2 or run any of those emulators..

Not saying that upgrading is not necessary, but if Apple could still maintain support for old software that would be a big plus..

rmbrown09
May 28, 2011, 02:55 PM
MY HEART HAS BROKEN INTO A MILLION PIECES.
THIS IS NOT SUPPORTED.
/KILL SELF
http://www.amazon.com/Return-Castle-Wolfenstein-Mac/dp/B00005V55B

graubereich
Jun 6, 2011, 06:44 PM
Damn.......
I just watched the Apple Keynote from WWDC.

Lion has a few great Features.
And iCloud is great.

But i have to start Freehand for the next few years.......
Thats such a bad situation.....
So i can't upgrade to lion.



But that isn't all:
I can't buy a new Mac in a few Weeks - because since they will be shipped with Lion they won't boot in SnowLeopard anymore.



What can i do?

Do you think there will be any Chance or any Hack to start Freehand in Lion anytime?

Calde
Jun 8, 2011, 09:02 PM
Since I'm affected by no rosetta, I submitted feedback to apple requesting them to reconsider. I'd suggest everyone concerned do the same. If they get enough response, hopefully they will bring it back.

chrfr
Jun 9, 2011, 09:55 AM
Since I'm affected by no rosetta, I submitted feedback to apple requesting them to reconsider. I'd suggest everyone concerned do the same. If they get enough response, hopefully they will bring it back.
It's way too late in the development cycle for this to have any effect.

InuNacho
Jun 9, 2011, 01:24 PM
Since Lion is coming off of the App Store I don't see why Rosetta couldn't be an optional $5-10 purchase for those that want it.

Cougarcat
Jun 9, 2011, 01:36 PM
Since Lion is coming off of the App Store I don't see why Rosetta couldn't be an optional $5-10 purchase for those that want it.

Won't happen, the lion system files are intel-only.

graubereich
Jun 9, 2011, 06:38 PM
Won't happen, the lion system files are intel-only.


Are you sure 100% this is not technical not possible?

Cougarcat
Jun 9, 2011, 07:06 PM
Are you sure 100% this is not technical not possible?

Are you asking if it's technically impossible for Rosetta to return? I don't know, but it would be a big undertaking as they'd have to reincorporate all that old PPC code. Not going to happen. And it would have to come as a big update to the OS, not a small MAS app.

haravikk
Jun 22, 2011, 11:44 AM
Is there no way that a bridge into the Intel libraries could be developed for PowerPC apps?

It seems to me that there will be some way to do it, the real question is whether there are any hooks left that developers can use, so they can intercept double-clicks of a PPC app and open them properly, avoiding the dialogue about them no longer being supported.

It's a bit of a downer, but will Snow Leopard not run just fine in emulation? Or we can dual-boot, so it's not like we've lost all options for good.

medicman109
Jul 30, 2011, 08:04 PM
In order to run programs that require rosetta, you will have to partition your HD. You can run snow leopard on one and Lion on another. I have 1 program that requires rosetta, so I partioned my HD into snown leopard with 10G and works fine. Crappy work around, but at least it works.

graubereich
Aug 10, 2011, 07:59 PM
but this won't work for new macs......

thats the big deal breaker :-(


my hope is anyone will build a rosetta hack, replacement or whatever....

Ratatapa
Aug 10, 2011, 08:09 PM
but this won't work for new macs......

thats the big deal breaker :-(


my hope is anyone will build a rosetta hack, replacement or whatever....

Or just migrate to 2011?

jeznav
Aug 10, 2011, 08:52 PM
Are you sure 100% this is not technical not possible?

All of the hundred+ framework bundles in /System/Library/Framework has no PPC code in it. Even if someone where to copy those files from Snow Leopard to Lion it would break the system making it unstable due to outdated frameworks. Nobody has the Lion source code to recompile them back to PPC, only Apple. You might as well install SL in another partition.

OTOH, Apple might release a legacy PPC emulation API for developers that contain PPC as with the case of Quicken which is a PPC application that they promised Lion compatibility. http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/16/quicken-2007-may-run-on-os-x-lion-even-with-rosetta-dead/

But then again, what are the chances of Adobe's canned Freehand coming out in 2012.

colourfastt
Aug 10, 2011, 09:47 PM
Rosetta is obsolete. Time to move on...

This is the reason Windows will always dominate the business/enterprise sector while Apple caters to kindergarteners with its iDevices. If you have a business, you may need to replace hardware occasionally but that does NOT mean that you have to replace the software your business depends on.

saulinpa
Aug 11, 2011, 07:34 AM
If you have a business, you may need to replace hardware occasionally but that does NOT mean that you have to replace the software your business depends on.

Windows model is to replace everything every couple of years and pay Micro$oft each time. In business we can't run old versions of Office because the file formats change each time. They prime the pump by giving employees cheap copies of the newest Office via the Home Use Program. Then the employees bring in file formats that they demand be read on their work machines.

johnfkitchen
Aug 11, 2011, 08:51 AM
Windows model is to replace everything every couple of years and pay Micro$oft each time. In business we can't run old versions of Office because the file formats change each time. They prime the pump by giving employees cheap copies of the newest Office via the Home Use Program. Then the employees bring in file formats that they demand be read on their work machines.

Your argument about businesses being forced into support of new file formats is a good one. Many push back and delay the process, but it's inevitable.

The irony here is that those people who still use Office 2004 and haven't been driven to either 2008 or 2011 are the Office users who have the issue with lack of Rosetta. If Microsoft had truly forced everyone to upgrade, the Office users would be silent.

From Microsoft's perspective, they need "planned obsolescence" to avoid going out of business.

sally456
Aug 18, 2011, 02:48 AM
Yeah, the Lion has some great Features.
I like the full screen, and iCloud, which made me to do update.
But a little pity is many apps are not campatible with Lion. :(
Hmm, just got a list of Awesomely Free Lion Compatible Apps from iFunia Mac OS X Lion Column, cool! :D

sidewinder
Aug 18, 2011, 03:09 AM
This is the reason Windows will always dominate the business/enterprise sector while Apple caters to kindergarteners with its iDevices. If you have a business, you may need to replace hardware occasionally but that does NOT mean that you have to replace the software your business depends on.

Yeah, right. This is exactly why Windows 7 is as bloated as it is. Of course, it is based on Windows NT (released in 1993) and is the result of code added on top of Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, and Windows Vista.

You want all that bloat and baggage? You can have it. The only reason that the Windows Registry still exists is because getting rid of it would break everything Microsoft has done for the past 20 years and they are to afraid to make that move.

S-