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talmy
Feb 24, 2011, 09:14 AM
Sort of hidden at the bottom of the new Lion announcement is "Lion Server". Looks like the server functions are now going to be in the Lion distribution, so no more extra cost or separate editions.

At first glance it looks like the full functionality of Snow Leopard Server, but maybe there is some hidden downgrade of features?



Mal
Feb 24, 2011, 09:24 AM
From what I saw, I wouldn't assume that it's included, but perhaps just a quick mention of the Server version having some new changes. Perhaps someone in the dev program will be able to shed more light, though.

jW

fairbanx
Feb 24, 2011, 09:26 AM
it says: "Lion Server is now part of Mac OS X Lion." hm, whatever!?

http://www.apple.com/macosx/lion/

talmy
Feb 24, 2011, 09:44 AM
It's a big deal for me (if it is truly a replacement for Snow Leopard Server). Paying $500 for Lion Server to run on a Mac mini that only cost $850 to begin with is a bit steep! Now I can just get the family pack Lion and it is covered.

fairbanx
Feb 24, 2011, 10:11 AM
it would be great if the "full" version is included. maybe you're forced to purchase additional "packs" via app-store if you want to enhance a "basic" server version, i.e. mail-server etc.

grawk
Feb 24, 2011, 11:20 AM
This is fantabulous news. I have been watching ebay listings of snow leopard server, so this makes it a no brainer. I'll just wait a few weeks.

bluebomberman
Feb 24, 2011, 05:12 PM
it would be great if the "full" version is included. maybe you're forced to purchase additional "packs" via app-store if you want to enhance a "basic" server version, i.e. mail-server etc.

There's no indication on Apple's Lion preview page that they're packaging a gutted server package with additional add-ons to be sold separately.

Easy Setup
Lion Server guides you through configuring your Mac as a server. And it provides local and remote administration — for users and groups, push notifications, file sharing, calendaring, mail, contacts, chat, Time Machine, VPN, web, and wiki services — all in one place.

It's all speculation at this point, but a description like that makes it sound like ALL of Lion Server is included in each copy of Lion.

Mad Mac Maniac
Feb 24, 2011, 09:08 PM
Pardon my ignorance. I've never used a server before, but now that it is being opened up for free in Lion, is this something that I could benefit from? What can it be used for from average home consumers?

Anonymous Freak
Feb 24, 2011, 09:57 PM
Pardon my ignorance. I've never used a server before, but now that it is being opened up for free in Lion, is this something that I could benefit from? What can it be used for from average home consumers?

Not much. Most of the 'server' features are really only truly useful in server environments. About the only one I can see as useful for home use is WebDAV sharing for iPad. (i.e. right now the iPad can't see your Mac's network share, so you can't access files that are on your desktop from your iPad - with WebDAV sharing, according to that link, you can, easily.)

calderone
Feb 24, 2011, 10:43 PM
Well, it is pretty not functional in this early release.

There is a new app called "Server" which seems to be similar to the current "Server Preferences." I always find Server Preferences to be a joke.

Server Admin is still their, but all the Services that "Server" covers are not in Server Admin. Thankfully NetBoot and SUS are still in place as is DNS. What they may be doing is using "Server" for the consumer. And keeping more advanced features like DNS, OD, etc in Server Admin.

Notably missing from File Sharing is NFS and their are no advanced file sharing options in Server Admin.

All in all, I am pretty disappointed. I would much prefer the "Server Preferences" and "Server Admin" arrangement that is currently in SL Server. I definitely would not say this is fulling featured. At this time it is a giant downgrade

logandzwon
Feb 25, 2011, 07:58 AM
It looks to me they ARE basically killing server...

From what I see they are migrating the server features they've built in the past into an optional module for the base OS. (like Ubuntu vs Ubuntu Server, server is just additional software.)

Billy Boo Bob
Feb 25, 2011, 11:46 AM
I wonder what this means for being able to install virtual servers on Parallels and the like?

Consultant
Feb 25, 2011, 12:25 PM
Pardon my ignorance. I've never used a server before, but now that it is being opened up for free in Lion, is this something that I could benefit from? What can it be used for from average home consumers?

Push. iPad file share. VPN.

It's "included." May or may not be free.

Winni
Feb 25, 2011, 02:33 PM
(like Ubuntu vs Ubuntu Server, server is just additional software.)

Let's say that the desktop and the server editions are DIFFERENT software. Ubuntu is a desktop OS with a full graphical user interface and Ubuntu Server is a full server platform WITHOUT ANY graphical user interface. Repeat: no GUI at all, leave your mouse at home, you won't be needing it. Instead, Ubuntu Server comes with options to be installed as a cloud server, a LAMP stack or for other typical server-only tasks like file and print or database or directory services.

But you are right that both Ubuntu versions use the same repositories and that with sufficient work one can eventually do what the other does or be configured to become the other edition; they are just pre-packaged for completely different uses.

While on the other hand, the OS X client before Lion could never become a full OS X server, at least not when you wanted to replicate or use Apple's proprietary server software and tools on the desktop version of the OS.

When I first read about, I still thought that they would be releasing another version of OS X server. But then I visited Apple's website and their wording didn't leave much room for interpretation: Yes, whatever server features Apple wants to save are now becoming a part of the standard package of OS X Lion. There won't be a separate server edition anymore.

And it makes sense. They buried their server business, so they don't need to develop, market, ship and support a separate server OS anymore.

talmy
Feb 25, 2011, 02:35 PM
Pardon my ignorance. I've never used a server before, but now that it is being opened up for free in Lion, is this something that I could benefit from? What can it be used for from average home consumers?

I'm not average but I use it at home. Here's the list of services I use:

DNS
DHCP
Open Directory
DynDNS Update
TimeMachine backup for 5 Macs
Windows VM to run Quicken (Screen Sharing to view)
File Sharing for music, pictures, video, software archival storage.
AddressBook server to sync address book among computers and iTouches
iCal server to sync and share calendars among computers and iTouches.
Printer/Scanner server for shared all-in-one
VPN server to access network away from home

http://almy.us/server.html

bluebomberman
Feb 25, 2011, 03:21 PM
One note: according to John Gruber (http://daringfireball.net/linked/2011/02/24/lion):

you need to specify the machine as a server when you install the OS ó itís not a switch you can flip later on

Le Big Mac
Feb 25, 2011, 03:59 PM
One note: according to John Gruber (http://daringfireball.net/linked/2011/02/24/lion):

I assume that means you could go back and start over on that machine though if you wanted

Billy Boo Bob
Feb 25, 2011, 11:18 PM
I assume that means you could go back and start over on that machine though if you wanted
Sure, like any "Wipe out / Restore"...

Maybe... Just "maybe", you might be able to re-run the installer like an upgrade to do it so long as you haven't yet updated to a 10.7.x, where x > 0 (or whatever version you started with later on). But don't be surprised if that's not even possible.

BornAgainMac
Feb 27, 2011, 07:04 AM
I wonder what this means for being able to install virtual servers on Parallels and the like?

For one thing it will be cheaper. Family Pack vs having to pay $500 per copy. I hope Apple doesn't cripple it.

yiyopr
Feb 27, 2011, 03:44 PM
I have the developer preview of Mac OS X Lion and when you install it you need to click on "customize" and add the server programs. Didn't do it because its not my line of work, but I hope this clears things up?

Digital Skunk
Feb 27, 2011, 04:33 PM
Let's say that the desktop and the server editions are DIFFERENT software. Ubuntu is a desktop OS with a full graphical user interface and Ubuntu Server is a full server platform WITHOUT ANY graphical user interface. Repeat: no GUI at all, leave your mouse at home, you won't be needing it. Instead, Ubuntu Server comes with options to be installed as a cloud server, a LAMP stack or for other typical server-only tasks like file and print or database or directory services.

But you are right that both Ubuntu versions use the same repositories and that with sufficient work one can eventually do what the other does or be configured to become the other edition; they are just pre-packaged for completely different uses.

While on the other hand, the OS X client before Lion could never become a full OS X server, at least not when you wanted to replicate or use Apple's proprietary server software and tools on the desktop version of the OS.

When I first read about, I still thought that they would be releasing another version of OS X server. But then I visited Apple's website and their wording didn't leave much room for interpretation: Yes, whatever server features Apple wants to save are now becoming a part of the standard package of OS X Lion. There won't be a separate server edition anymore.

And it makes sense. They buried their server business, so they don't need to develop, market, ship and support a separate server OS anymore.

This all goes along with some of the speculation in my neck of the woods. Apple may have just setup the Mac Pro server option as a temporary fix for those needing a dedicated server that wasn't a mini . . . since they murdered the Xserve.

There's no way anyone in the market for an Xserve will want to stick a Mac Pro in their racks, and a Mini just won't cut it power wise.

Putting the features that SoHo users want in a server in the desktop client will just push the desktop version further up the "what a deal" ladder and leave the Mac server business buried forever.

talmy
Feb 27, 2011, 06:28 PM
Apple has bragged that they had only one version of OS X (compared to the half dozen versions of Windows), so if this is "done right" they could really make good on that promise. There doesn't seem to be that much fundamentally different in the underpinnings of Snow Leopard and Snow Leopard Server. If the server version of Lion doesn't lose anything then it should be fine, as far as what I need, at least.

IMHO, anyone who has considered Apple servers for heavy, or even medium, duty use has always been living dangerously. Between single source hardware and miniscule market share, why take the chance? For my SOHO use, it's been working out just fine.

grawk
Feb 27, 2011, 10:49 PM
Apple has bragged that they had only one version of OS X (compared to the half dozen versions of Windows), so if this is "done right" they could really make good on that promise. There doesn't seem to be that much fundamentally different in the underpinnings of Snow Leopard and Snow Leopard Server. If the server version of Lion doesn't lose anything then it should be fine, as far as what I need, at least.

IMHO, anyone who has considered Apple servers for heavy, or even medium, duty use has always been living dangerously. Between single source hardware and miniscule market share, why take the chance? For my SOHO use, it's been working out just fine.

Single source hardware is an asset to server reliability, not a detriment. Compare linux uptimes to AIX, Solaris, or HPUX, and there's no contest. Having 1 company on the hook for everything helps make things run way more smoothly. The trend towards linux in the data center is a detriment that mirrors wall street, with short term costs overruling long term benefit.

Bye Bye Baby
Feb 28, 2011, 01:09 AM
The difference in the operating systems is more in terms of just function and applications- it is not a completely different operating system. So the idea of Apple giving you access to it on your lion disk is not an outrageous idea.

bluebomberman
Feb 28, 2011, 01:24 AM
Single source hardware is an asset to server reliability, not a detriment. Compare linux uptimes to AIX, Solaris, or HPUX, and there's no contest. Having 1 company on the hook for everything helps make things run way more smoothly. The trend towards linux in the data center is a detriment that mirrors wall street, with short term costs overruling long term benefit.

That's debatable. Apple's reputation in business/enterprise support has never been stellar. Meanwhile, Google literally Velcro together their server farms, using cheap hardware that is vulnerable to failure at single points but is collectively resilient and efficient.

These are extreme ends of the spectrum that I'm using as examples, though.

talmy
Feb 28, 2011, 09:45 AM
Single source hardware is an asset to server reliability, not a detriment. Compare linux uptimes to AIX, Solaris, or HPUX, and there's no contest. Having 1 company on the hook for everything helps make things run way more smoothly. The trend towards linux in the data center is a detriment that mirrors wall street, with short term costs overruling long term benefit.

As they used to say, "nobody has ever been fired for buying IBM." I think its safer to buy from a company that has a name and decent reputation in the server business is safer than Apple who has a recent history of pulling out of the business and never offered the variety of hardware and services of any of the major players. Even ignoring the high end players, I'd say that, for instance, a Dell server with Red Hat Linux would be a safer investment than who knows what from Apple these days. Ignoring the small choices available for Apple servers today, what happens if they discontinue the Mac Pro altogether? What if Lion Server is "defeatured" to make it easier for home server setups?

Anonymous Freak
Feb 28, 2011, 01:43 PM
That's debatable. Apple's reputation in business/enterprise support has never been stellar. Meanwhile, Google literally Velcro together their server farms, using cheap hardware that is vulnerable to failure at single points but is collectively resilient and efficient.

These are extreme ends of the spectrum that I'm using as examples, though.

There's a big difference between "many single machines can fail and the cloud survives" and "individual machines are stable". Most businesses can't afford the mass cloud redundancy of Google, and most can't afford to have machines go down regularly.

The point of "big iron" is that you buy one large expensive machine that just sits there doing its work quietly for years on end, with little active administration needed.

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 04:47 PM
Having installed lion, then re-ran the installer to change to lion server, it seems to re-install the os, although lion server seems to be more of an add-on (applications/services) rather than a a difference in OS.

With lion server i don't see apple releasing new server hardware other than utilising the mac mini / pro. all the services including the new profile tool look to be aimed at soho business for file-sharing/back-up or larger business utilising lion server as an add-on to current services/server to simply manage the profiling for idevices/computers, and maybe some file-sharing/podcasting/wiki or ichat.
It might just be me but allot of services such as web/mail seem to be simplified as in the mail services has only one domain option to serve mail from, there might be a alias option somewhere but i couldn't find it, the same goes for web, you can create more than one domain but there do-sent seem to be an option for alias.

Mail although failing to run seems to still run squirrel mail but am unable to login and see if there are any changes.

there seems to be set-up/references for setting up idivices for use with MS Exchange/push mail which lion server still do sent seem to support for iphones/ipads.

After the install of lion server on top of lion desktop, allot of the system preferences/names/users/passwords/files were still there.
Lion server crashed at the completion of the install so i rebooted and was logged strait into the system with the user i created when i initially installed lion desktop, i did not go through any set-up as you normally do and carnt seem to find anything for dns set-up.

asencif
Feb 28, 2011, 05:23 PM
Having installed lion, then re-ran the installer to change to lion server, it seems to re-install the os, although lion server seems to be more of an add-on (applications/services) rather than a a difference in OS.

With lion server i don't see apple releasing new server hardware other than utilising the mac mini / pro. all the services including the new profile tool look to be aimed at soho business for file-sharing/back-up or larger business utilising lion server as an add-on to current services/server to simply manage the profiling for idevices/computers, and maybe some file-sharing/podcasting/wiki or ichat.


there seems to be set-up/references for setting up idivices for use with MS Exchange/push mail which lion server still do sent seem to support for iphones/ipads.



Are there options to enable Open Directory Services, NFS, Software Update Server, XGRID? Also, are the Server Admin and Workgroup Manager tools included or replaced with something else?

I'm reading mixed things all over the web on what's gone and what isn't.

Thanks.

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 05:35 PM
Are there options to enable Open Directory Services, NFS, Software Update Server, XGRID? Also, are the Server Admin and Workgroup Manager tools included or replaced with something else?

I'm reading mixed things all over the web on what's gone and what isn't.

Thanks.

Il get some screen shot up for you in the hour.
There are options for software update server, (im sure but might be wrong that there are some improvements on this for server and clients). theres the xgrid manager (haven't got it set-up)
Didn't notice NFS and believe it or not but am totally confused with the OD Service, I carnt find an option/setting for it but it has to be there.

bluebomberman
Feb 28, 2011, 06:24 PM
There's a big difference between "many single machines can fail and the cloud survives" and "individual machines are stable". Most businesses can't afford the mass cloud redundancy of Google, and most can't afford to have machines go down regularly.

The point of "big iron" is that you buy one large expensive machine that just sits there doing its work quietly for years on end, with little active administration needed.

I guess each situation is different. I'm more interested personally in the SOHO scenarios, where dedicated servers and an exclusive IT staff are slowly losing relevance (http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2785-the-end-of-the-it-department).

(Although the news of Gmail losing emails gives me pause (http://www.macworld.com/article/158186/2011/02/gmail.html).)

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 06:35 PM
Photos of lion server launchpad, podcast composer and one of server admin.

Podcast composer seems to be a vast improvement and offers many more options.
Server Admin seem really limited in my opinion but then again it docent work for me, for showing services so maybe theres more to come.

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 06:38 PM
server admin

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 06:53 PM
Hows great, lion just froze up, i did a hard restart and everything is there ready to carry on. with all the crashes/blue screen of death ms had years ago, you would of thought they would of done something like this.

More server admin and one from server monitor, some reason it do sent work on my mac book pro.

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 06:57 PM
Server Monitor, system image and workgroup manager.

asencif
Feb 28, 2011, 06:58 PM
Thanks for the pics kingdonk. It looks like the Open Directory service is there in the pictures, although maybe it's unconfigurable at the moment. I do not see NFS which is surprising.

Overall, with the killing of the Xserve and Apple catering OS X Server more to the SOHO, it will be a tough sell since a lot of 2-10 person shops that don't require more than 500GB can probably have most of their infrastructure on the cloud.

If they need massive amounts of storage and not a lot of physical space then an XServe would fit better with a RAID attached and backup unit.

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 07:00 PM
more

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 07:03 PM
more of the same plus work group manager

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 07:07 PM
The screenshots follow in order so if you unsure what a smaller shot is of, go back until you see a full screen shot and you will understand what it belongs too.

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 07:11 PM
Thanks for the pics kingdonk. It looks like the Open Directory service is there in the pictures, although maybe it's unconfigurable at the moment. I do not see NFS which is surprising.

Overall, with the killing of the Xserve and Apple catering OS X Server more to the SOHO, it will be a tough sell since a lot of 2-10 person shops that don't require more than 500GB can probably have most of their infrastructure on the cloud.

If they need massive amounts of storage and not a lot of physical space then an XServe would fit better with a RAID attached and backup unit.

NFS is there, just keep your eyes peeled and you will see it some where in the screen shots along with samba and ipad file sharing.

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 07:13 PM
work group manager and x-grid manager

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 07:17 PM
Xgrid and Xsan

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 07:26 PM
Randome shots after they have all somehow gotten mixed up, if you want to know what one it belongs to just hover your mouse over the image and find another image with the same name/time.

DoFoT9
Feb 28, 2011, 07:34 PM
being a network admin for a medium business that is 100% Macs, i am extremely concerned by Lion and its lack of server ability. looking at Lion over the last few days has depressed me somewhat. there are ZERO changes to WGM and Server Admin - and the new Server thing is just a joke to admins in a professional environment.

so overall, i am rather dissapointed :(

There's no indication on Apple's Lion preview page that they're packaging a gutted server package with additional add-ons to be sold separately.
currently its all in the one bundle, but i believe they will charge extra for server essentials once they release it.

It's all speculation at this point, but a description like that makes it sound like ALL of Lion Server is included in each copy of Lion.
it kind of did! but it doesnt seem very apple :/

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 07:37 PM
more

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 07:45 PM
nore

DoFoT9
Feb 28, 2011, 08:07 PM
nore

yeh that is that stupid Server.app. what an insult!

bluebomberman
Feb 28, 2011, 08:10 PM
being a network admin for a medium business that is 100% Macs, i am extremely concerned by Lion and its lack of server ability.

With the Xserve getting canned, it's likely that Apple will shift Lion server hard towards SOHO needs and further away from the needs of larger enterprise environments.

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 08:17 PM
more

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 08:24 PM
more server app screenshots

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 08:26 PM
server app screen shots

DoFoT9
Feb 28, 2011, 08:26 PM
With the Xserve getting canned, it's likely that Apple will shift Lion server hard towards SOHO needs and further away from the needs of larger enterprise environments.

yes i agree there. osx server shall thusly be known as "Mac OSX Home Server".

*cry*

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 08:28 PM
more server app setting and profile editor

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 08:30 PM
More server an the start of the profile manager web app.
the profile manager also allows you to remote lock/wipe your devices but you need to have network directory set up which it was, so will investigate later more about this feature.

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 08:40 PM
I have just figured something out in the server admin app that allows you to modify the services i will upload the images of this after i finnish uploading the rest of the images. this will take some time.

DoFoT9
Feb 28, 2011, 08:47 PM
I have just figured something out in the server admin app that allows you to modify the services i will upload the images of this after i finnish uploading the rest of the images. this will take some time.

have you used osx server before?

kingdonk
Feb 28, 2011, 09:24 PM
have you used osx server before?
Nope.

DoFoT9
Feb 28, 2011, 09:52 PM
Nope.

oh ok, because pretty much every feature in Lion (that you have outlined) is also in Snow Leopard.

logandzwon
Mar 1, 2011, 06:53 AM
From the talks I've had with people from the Apple Professional Services group Apple feels that real world use of OS X server is very limited. Most of their work is integrating Active Directory with Open Directory. They see most of their customers using OS X Server as the authentication, group policy, and file servers for the mac units in their customer's businesses.

Digital Skunk
Mar 1, 2011, 07:15 AM
From the talks I've had with people from the Apple Professional Services group Apple feels that real world use of OS X server is very limited. Most of their work is integrating Active Directory with Open Directory. They see most of their customers using OS X Server as the authentication, group policy, and file servers for the mac units in their customer's businesses.

I would have to agree with that assessment. It's pretty much the task I am trying to set up at the university I work in . . . . if they would only give me the resources to do so.

I don't think there's too much heavy lifting and heavy customization going on with OSX Server in the SoHo, SMB, and enterprise sector.

motech
Mar 1, 2011, 01:20 PM
is the address book / calendar server working?
if so how do i set it up?

i enabled them in the server app,
but when i goto my address book and enter in the user name and password and ip address it doesn't work.

i must be missing a step.

Mr-Stabby
Mar 1, 2011, 01:44 PM
Just looking at the ''Server Admin' screenshots posted, i noticed that in the list of Services, both AFP and NFS are missing. Is File Sharing managed somewhere else in Lion?

DoFoT9
Mar 1, 2011, 01:58 PM
Just looking at the ''Server Admin' screenshots posted, i noticed that in the list of Services, both AFP and NFS are missing. Is File Sharing managed somewhere else in Lion?

youre right! uh oh. will have to investigate when i get to work.

kingdonk
Mar 1, 2011, 10:30 PM
More screenshots carrying on from yesterday.
There will be more from server admin later, which will show file-sharing options.

kingdonk
Mar 1, 2011, 10:31 PM
more of the same.

kingdonk
Mar 1, 2011, 10:33 PM
same.

kingdonk
Mar 1, 2011, 10:34 PM
more profile manager

kingdonk
Mar 1, 2011, 10:36 PM
more options

kingdonk
Mar 1, 2011, 10:39 PM
Profile manager, mail (is that the same login as the old squirrel mail?) wiki using the same framework as mobile me.

kingdonk
Mar 1, 2011, 10:41 PM
wiki calendar.

kingdonk
Mar 1, 2011, 11:01 PM
Just looking at the ''Server Admin' screenshots posted, i noticed that in the list of Services, both AFP and NFS are missing. Is File Sharing managed somewhere else in Lion?

This seems to be all i can find and its in the server app.
I did think i saw something in server admin but after checking it again i seem to be wrong.

kingdonk
Mar 1, 2011, 11:12 PM
is the address book / calendar server working?
if so how do i set it up?

i enabled them in the server app,
but when i goto my address book and enter in the user name and password and ip address it doesn't work.

i must be missing a step.

Have you got DNS and everything set-up properly?
Mine won't work either but i haven't set the system up properly and I'm sure i remember reading in the forums about SL Server that simply not having DNS set-up correctly will prevent such services from running.
I may be wrong though. maybe some one else may be able to enlighten us?

kingdonk
Mar 2, 2011, 12:20 AM
Is this a new webmail?

Kenrik
Mar 2, 2011, 08:19 AM
Um.. All of that looks the same. I really don't see many changes since Snow Leopard Server.. I will feel relieved as long as everything is still there. It all works pretty well once you know what you're doing.

I don't want to have to switch back to linux server admin... that's a nightmare.

More or less OSX server has always just been normal OSX with some server bits thrown in. Most of the packages are just open source unix/linux programs with a GUI on top.

You can install Apache and configure it yourself on a normal OSX install but.. I prefer the GUI rather then sort through httpd.conf in nano or vi.

GFLPraxis
Mar 2, 2011, 11:06 AM
That's debatable. Apple's reputation in business/enterprise support has never been stellar. Meanwhile, Google literally Velcro together their server farms, using cheap hardware that is vulnerable to failure at single points but is collectively resilient and efficient.

These are extreme ends of the spectrum that I'm using as examples, though.

Google literally Velcro's their server farms? Dang, I should try that.

sux2beyou
Mar 2, 2011, 11:23 AM
Mail is not using squirrelmail !! HORRAY. They switched to roundcube. (http://roundcube.net/) Also they are using the latest version of roundcube (0.5.1) which was released 2-9-2011.



I posed some screen shots of the new device management remote lock and wipe features here.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1106504

In the backend there is a lot of ruby running the wiki (teamsserver and the webauthserver)
There is also built in postgres running the services, but no obvious way to manage it from the GUI.
MySQL is not installed.

A lot of services are missing from server admin, some have dumbed down features in the server.app (which replaces server preferences) but a lot is missing.


Web is missing from server admin, so I find no obvious way to change thing like Folder Listings, or Proxy or Aliases.

I can't find any way to make an NFS or FTP share.

Print server is missing.

QuickTime Streaming service is missing. (although I've never used that)

VPN settings are only in server.app, so there is no way to provide different DNS Servers or Search Domains or Network Routing to your VPN clients.
It also looks like it sets up as L2TP over IPSec Auth and there is no way to change it or see the number of connections like you can in server admin.

bluebomberman
Mar 2, 2011, 02:36 PM
Google literally Velcro's their server farms? Dang, I should try that.

I'm serious. See here (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/14/technology/14search.html?pagewanted=all). And here (http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10209580-92.html).

The slow shift to el cheapo green servers and cloud computing makes Xserve an even tougher sell, most of all to Apple internally.

More so than other tech companies, Apple is famous for making stuff that they want to use themselves. (I remember Steve Jobs once mentioned how Apple employees' hatred for their own cell phones helped drive the creation of the iPhone.) So I'm willing to bet that Apple looked at their server farms and thought, "Dang, we'd be stupid to put Xserves in here. Um, why are we building these things again?"

talmy
Mar 2, 2011, 10:41 PM
A lot of services are missing from server admin, some have dumbed down features in the server.app (which replaces server preferences) but a lot is missing.


Doesn't seem right to remove services. Perhaps they will reappear later in the beta.

At least for my use, all the services seem to be present (except Printer Server, which I use but don't really need, as all it really offers is spooling and is otherwise a PITA).

I don't really have time to install and look into this. I'll just investigate when the final release comes out, and maybe a .1 after that! I already know of some Lion issues that will keep me away for a while anyway. And as long as Snow Leopard server will work with Lion clients I can certainly wait!

Mr-Stabby
Mar 3, 2011, 03:15 PM
Thanks for the screenshots.

Slightly concerned that some services appear to be either missing altogether or lacking in functionality.

Hopefully we'll see them appear before the final version appears. It seems from the look of those screenshots that a lot of stuff has been re-written from the ground up.

I'm liking the look of the new web based features :)

handheldgames
Mar 3, 2011, 08:01 PM
yes i agree there. osx server shall thusly be known as "Mac OSX Home Server".

*cry*

Yep... Considering Apple did nothing to provide a Snow Leopard Server connector for Windows 7 and beyond, kinda makes Apple's server offering redundant in a mixed-platform environment these days... SLS in name had potential... but... whats under the hood isn't up to the quality of the Apple logo.

Great to see some EFFORT on polishing the server. Based on my experience using it over the last 18 months, they would have to give me the next version in order to even consider it... Guess they are :)

I just deployed Windows Home Server 2... And very happy with it at the moment... It seem MS is more than ready for competition on this front...

handheldgames
Mar 3, 2011, 08:03 PM
Any changes under the hood allowing Win7 Boxes to join an OD domain? :confused:

More server an the start of the profile manager web app.
the profile manager also allows you to remote lock/wipe your devices but you need to have network directory set up which it was, so will investigate later more about this feature.

hans-martijn
Mar 4, 2011, 05:15 AM
Does push-mail actually work this time? In SLS it is supported, but not with an iPhone. iPhone push thus far only works with Exchange, Google or MobileMe.

Thanks!

-Hans-Martijn

handheldgames
Mar 4, 2011, 01:13 PM
Does push-mail actually work this time? In SLS it is supported, but not with an iPhone. iPhone push thus far only works with Exchange, Google or MobileMe.

Thanks!

-Hans-Martijn

Push works AWESOME on Kerio Connect 7 to the iPhone, 6 worked great also. It uses an outlook connector for it's black magic. Email are generally pushed to and appear on my iPhone within a second of hitting the server.

DoFoT9
Mar 4, 2011, 06:37 PM
Yep... Considering Apple did nothing to provide a Snow Leopard Server connector for Windows 7 and beyond, kinda makes Apple's server offering redundant in a mixed-platform environment these days... SLS in name had potential... but... whats under the hood isn't up to the quality of the Apple logo.

Great to see some EFFORT on polishing the server. Based on my experience using it over the last 18 months, they would have to give me the next version in order to even consider it... Guess they are :)

I just deployed Windows Home Server 2... And very happy with it at the moment... It seem MS is more than ready for competition on this front...

so you use your server in the home environment? i kind of think that Lion will be fairly decent in the home environment, its user friendly and most of the features that are not included from SLS arent required by the general home user population. turning on and off services without configuration is exactly what most people need :D

hans-martijn
Mar 8, 2011, 03:15 AM
Push works AWESOME on Kerio Connect 7 to the iPhone, 6 worked great also. It uses an outlook connector for it's black magic. Email are generally pushed to and appear on my iPhone within a second of hitting the server.

Before SLS I used mail server software on linux. The general idea was that Apple promoted SLS as THE server to use with an iPhone, which apparently isn't completely true. I don't think I want to pay a yearly subscription for another mail server again.

satelshawn
Mar 8, 2011, 08:59 AM
Kingdonk, thanks a million for the screenshots. Any idea what version of Samba they have included? That has been a big headache for me with Snow Leopard ever since win7 came out. Cannot bind win7 to the domain because apple are running an old version of samba.

If you could figure out the samba version that would be awesome, if it is still and old version then I am going to have to either move to Linux or buy a Windows server license for our win7 machines.

twoodcc
Mar 8, 2011, 09:36 PM
thanks for the screenshots! i'm glad that lion server is included in lion. more people will use it, since it comes with lion.

talmy
Mar 14, 2011, 09:46 AM
We may all be jumping the gun on this one. Apple says that Lion Server is included in the Lion preview. That doesn't mean it will be included in the final release!

Obviously developers need a copy of Lion Server to test their applications. Just like Mac Developer members can get Snow Leopard and Snow Leopard Server downloads, this is just a convenient way to package up both Lion client and server into one download.

grawk
Mar 14, 2011, 10:07 AM
Lion Server

Simply a better server.
Lion Server is now part of Mac OS X Lion. Itís easy to set up your Mac as a server and take advantage of the many services Lion Server has to offer. Here are just a few of the new features that make server deployment faster, easier, and more powerful than ever.

That doesn't say anything about the preview.

talmy
Mar 14, 2011, 10:53 AM
Ah, right. In the developer site there is an implication that the server version would be separate. But I'm still expecting some sort of gimmick. With the Mac Store one could end up paying for each little feature as an option.

Supa_Fly
Mar 15, 2011, 01:16 AM
kingdonk,

Many thanks for the juicy pics and all your efforts. Unfortunately tonight I'll sing a sad sad sad sad song learning what you've posted. I'm seriously almost afraid to learn Snow Leopard Server and will need to re-evaluate if that $21xx course & certification exam will be worth it - considering I live in Canada - I don't know of any major corporations running an all OS X business model & infrastructure.


Wait: I had another thought.

Back in the days of AIX didn't Apple ship such a server (Workgroup Server running this)? When it was cancelled like the XServe now ... did Apple eventually kill off the server specific software/OS (either or both) shortly after or has there ALWAYS been a server software?

Chimaera
Mar 16, 2011, 11:43 AM
From memory Snow Leopard Samba runs a modified version of 3.0 Samba, however versions 3.3 and 3.4 of Samba Windows 7 *can* authenticate against(+). If the version of Samba in Lion is 3.3 or higher then it might be possible to get Windows 7 computers to authenticate against OSX Lion server...

(+) Although a registry patch is required on the Win7 machines to enable certain legacy support.

I beleive the command is "smbd -V" in terminal on the server if someone feels like trying it...

kingdonk
Mar 17, 2011, 03:17 AM
Whats this feature for? I don't know if it was in SL Server but its part of the mail settings and don't know if its for certification or for using apple's mobile me mail service for pushing mail to iOS devices.

hans-martijn
Mar 18, 2011, 07:39 AM
Whats this feature for? I don't know if it was in SL Server but its part of the mail settings and don't know if its for certification or for using apple's mobile me mail service for pushing mail to iOS devices.

This looks like Push notifications for email will finally work :-)

-Hans-Martijn

kingdonk
Mar 19, 2011, 06:06 AM
Whats this feature for? I don't know if it was in SL Server but its part of the mail settings and don't know if its for certification or for using apple's mobile me mail service for pushing mail to iOS devices.

i came across a post earlier and carnt remember the link to it but it was back from 2008 where some one was on about the new sl server and about the apple push thing and it was not for push e-mail but for push notifications for apps. i guess it might be if a company has their own app they can use that service for push notifications in the app.

i may be wrong about this. any body else like to share?

Natural Science
Mar 23, 2011, 10:50 PM
Will the Lion Server allow me to keep one set of data accessible from my iMac & MBP so they are basically working with only one set of files? I don't want to migrate data from my iMac to my new MBP because between the iLife projects I don't want them living on separate machines... I simply want to close iMovie or excel for example and pick right up where I left up on the MBP once I'm upstairs! I set up file sharing and accessing the iPhoto library from the iMac takes forever to load, nevermind the loss of certain features like location tagging and I've yet to get iMovie to open the iMac library without having it crash. I know I sound like an total moron here, but the good news is when it comes to computers, I am, and I've accepted that.;)

talmy
Mar 24, 2011, 09:15 AM
Will the Lion Server allow me to keep one set of data accessible from my iMac & MBP so they are basically working with only one set of files? I don't want to migrate data from my iMac to my new MBP because between the iLife projects I don't want them living on separate machines... I simply want to close iMovie or excel for example and pick right up where I left up on the MBP once I'm upstairs! I set up file sharing and accessing the iPhoto library from the iMac takes forever to load, nevermind the loss of certain features like location tagging and I've yet to get iMovie to open the iMac library without having it crash. I know I sound like an total moron here, but the good news is when it comes to computers, I am, and I've accepted that.;)

It doesn't take Lion Server, any Mac will do, to have one set of files. But you may have a performance loss especially if you are using Wifi. With iMovie I moved the local iMovie Projects and iMovie Events folders to the server and created an alias to them on the local systems where the folders used to be. I don't use iPhoto, but if you start iPhoto holding down the option key you can specify an alternate iPhoto library location. iTunes seems to be a can of worms -- I haven't found a satisfactory solution beyond sharing the music folders. Doesn't seem to be a way to have shared playlists or even update the databases across systems. Instead I use Plex for music/video/photo sharing across systems with just the Plex server program running on the server. Doesn't seem to be any issues with other programs from Apple that I occasionally use.

grawk
Mar 24, 2011, 09:20 AM
idisk and dropbox both work for this. I use idisk to keep a synced copy of data on all my macs. It's not immediate update, but it allows access to the files even when away from the network. Not sure what will happen once mobileme transitions to it's new free version, tho.

kingtj
Mar 25, 2011, 01:57 PM
I think the whole thing about the 2-10 person shops moving to the cloud is a bit over-hyped/over-rated, really? I do a lot of consulting and on-site service work for small businesses like these, and none of them have moved anything to the cloud yet, except for one instance where they outsource a Microsoft Exchange and Sharepoint server.

The thing is, moving a firm's mail server to the cloud is a much easier sell than everything else, in most cases. That's because if their Internet connection should go down, it would cause an equal amount of hassle and service unavailability whether email was handed internally or externally. No connection means no new email coming in. By contrast, once a place gets rid of physical application or file servers and puts that stuff in the cloud? They may free themselves from having to take care of the hardware, but any Internet outage means inability to use those apps or get to those saved files. The small firms are usually the same ones who can't really afford multiple redundant broadband Internet connections.


Thanks for the pics kingdonk. It looks like the Open Directory service is there in the pictures, although maybe it's unconfigurable at the moment. I do not see NFS which is surprising.

Overall, with the killing of the Xserve and Apple catering OS X Server more to the SOHO, it will be a tough sell since a lot of 2-10 person shops that don't require more than 500GB can probably have most of their infrastructure on the cloud.

If they need massive amounts of storage and not a lot of physical space then an XServe would fit better with a RAID attached and backup unit.

Supa_Fly
Mar 26, 2011, 04:19 PM
From memory Snow Leopard Samba runs a modified version of 3.0 Samba, however versions 3.3 and 3.4 of Samba Windows 7 *can* authenticate against(+). If the version of Samba in Lion is 3.3 or higher then it might be possible to get Windows 7 computers to authenticate against OSX Lion server...

(+) Although a registry patch is required on the Win7 machines to enable certain legacy support.

I beleive the command is "smbd -V" in terminal on the server if someone feels like trying it...

I was under the impression that an Open Directory domain can host both OSX, Windows XP/Vista/7, and Linux boxes if enabled.

Supa_Fly
Mar 26, 2011, 06:06 PM
With the Xserve getting canned, it's likely that Apple will shift Lion server hard towards SOHO needs and further away from the needs of larger enterprise environments.

How will this affect so many Universities that have implemented iTunes U?!

talmy
Mar 27, 2011, 02:51 PM
Doing Lion evaluation and testing I upgraded a Snow Leopard drive (an external clone of a working system drive) to Lion, BUT I GOOFED and somehow upgraded to Lion Server! It attempted to upgrade my server settings, which of course were not present, but did see the existing server and integrated itself into Open Directory it provided.

My conclusion from this mini-disaster is that unlike other OS X server versions, this one will be capable of an upgrade installation. That is great news! I'm still concerned about the apparently missing services, but I think we all need to wait for Snow Leopard Server BETAs instead of just relying on this Developer Preview. At that time I'll also be trying an upgrade of Snow Leopard Server cloned on an external drives.

(FWIW, I don't intend on running any of these Lion pre-releases on any internal drive because I don't have a system that I can risk.)

Supa_Fly
Mar 27, 2011, 10:08 PM
Doing Lion evaluation and testing I upgraded a Snow Leopard drive (an external clone of a working system drive) to Lion, BUT I GOOFED and somehow upgraded to Lion Server! It attempted to upgrade my server settings, which of course were not present, but did see the existing server and integrated itself into Open Directory it provided.

My conclusion from this mini-disaster is that unlike other OS X server versions, this one will be capable of an upgrade installation. That is great news! I'm still concerned about the apparently missing services, but I think we all need to wait for Snow Leopard Server BETAs instead of just relying on this Developer Preview. At that time I'll also be trying an upgrade of Snow Leopard Server cloned on an external drives.

(FWIW, I don't intend on running any of these Lion pre-releases on any internal drive because I don't have a system that I can risk.)

Awesome! Thanks for the update.

clukas
Mar 31, 2011, 06:23 PM
I installed lion on my imac and selected the server tools during installation, for some reason the server tools where not installed. So I did a fresh install and the same happened, anyone got an idea how this could be? How can I get the server tools to work?

Im running Developer Release 1, I've not updated.

macnetis
Jun 7, 2011, 11:25 PM
Has anyone tested to see if Lion Server has fixed the directory services to allow Windows 7 Machines to join a domain where Lion Server is the Domain Master?

talmy
Jun 8, 2011, 10:27 AM
I installed lion on my imac and selected the server tools during installation, for some reason the server tools where not installed.
Im running Developer Release 1, I've not updated.

Time to update! I actually had the opposite problem -- I got the tools when I did a normal installation.

DHagan4755
Jun 8, 2011, 03:42 PM
Has anyone tested to see if Lion Server has fixed the directory services to allow Windows 7 Machines to join a domain where Lion Server is the Domain Master?

That functionality has been removed from Mac OS X Server.

macnetis
Jun 9, 2011, 02:32 AM
Do you mean Lion Server has removed it's Directory Service or do you mean that the OD is useful only in an all Mac environment?

teraflop
Jun 9, 2011, 07:08 PM
I am currently using MAMP (the free download) to develop PHP/mySQL sites locally before uploading to FTP. It simply allows my browser to display the local site on my iMac.

I know that Lion server is extremely powerful and can do many different thing, but does it do this easily and is it used in this way for developing sites offline?

I realize the game is changing with this new low price point of $50, MAMP Pro paid version is $59, so while maybe this wasn't a primary use before, it could very well change with lion server.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

gctwnl
Jun 12, 2011, 07:19 AM
That functionality has been removed from Mac OS X Server.I'm quite worried about what is happening to O X Server. E.g.:
- How about virtual hosting in MTA and Web Server? Still supported through Server Admin? Or do I need to go under the hood to postfix/apache?
- What about Portable Home Directories and PHD syncing? Is it still there? This is an important part of my setup, every user can use any system and gets his/her own environment.
- I have a couple of mail-only users (no home directories, just using MTA and IMAP), still possible to manage these in Workgroup Manager?
- I use a squirrelmail plugin to manage server side sorting rules (so sorting works also for webmail users). New webmail software: still possible? How do I manage these in the future?

Randomyachtie
Jun 12, 2011, 09:13 AM
@Dave Hagan
Any chance you could expand on your comment regarding the removal of Domain controller functionality in Lion Server?
This is my primary concern. I need to be able to allow windows7 machine to access my primarily mac based network running off a mac server.

BushyRS
Jun 13, 2011, 01:06 AM
We may all be jumping the gun on this one. Apple says that Lion Server is included in the Lion preview. That doesn't mean it will be included in the final release!

Obviously developers need a copy of Lion Server to test their applications. Just like Mac Developer members can get Snow Leopard and Snow Leopard Server downloads, this is just a convenient way to package up both Lion client and server into one download.

On the UK Apple sites it quotes £20.99 for Lion

http://www.apple.com/uk/macosx/how-to-buy/

And £34.99 for Lion Server

http://www.apple.com/uk/macosx/server/

Hope this helps

northernbaldy
Jun 13, 2011, 03:28 PM
I'm really pleased they have updated the god awful webmail
For my little home network, it looks like a good update to me

GaryMumford
Jun 22, 2011, 05:40 AM
Ive been playing with the latest Lion Server DP4 and have to say it is a huge backward step! Maybe I have done something wrong, I just installed the server.app which then when launched, it configured the server automatically downloading all the required components. There don't seem to be a "Server Admin" or "Workgroup Manager" anymore but just the "Server.app" and the features are VERY limited. There is no DNS service anymore so you can only have one domain name for the mail server! There are no options to create mail domain alias's, No FTP service, No Software Update... In fact there's loads missing compared to Snow Leopard Server. This looks like a very simplified cut down version for a small business that has just one domain, No good for me as we have 4 email domains on our existing SL server. Maybe I did something wrong, or maybe the DP4 has features missing that will appear in the GM... Time will tell!

talmy
Jun 22, 2011, 08:53 AM
There don't seem to be a "Server Admin" or "Workgroup Manager" anymore but just the "Server.app" and the features are VERY limited.

You did something wrong. There is Server Admin and Workgroup Manager. Printer spooling has been removed, and a couple of features (NFS mounts come to mind) are only available to be configured from the command line.

GaryMumford
Jun 22, 2011, 09:39 AM
You did something wrong. There is Server Admin and Workgroup Manager. Printer spooling has been removed, and a couple of features (NFS mounts come to mind) are only available to be configured from the command line.

This is good news! can you tell me where I went wrong? I was running Lion DP4, then downloaded the server.app and installed it. it took a while while it downloaded 'stuff' then when it had completed i just run the server.app. I looked for the Server Admin and Workgroup Manager but found nothing. Can you tell me where to find them?

Cheers mate!

Anyone know where I can get a 10.7 compatible version of Server Admin? (The Snow Leopard version is not compatible)

talmy
Jun 22, 2011, 03:23 PM
This is good news! can you tell me where I went wrong? I was running Lion DP4, then downloaded the server.app and installed it. it took a while while it downloaded 'stuff' then when it had completed i just run the server.app. I looked for the Server Admin and Workgroup Manager but found nothing. Can you tell me where to find them?

Cheers mate!

Anyone know where I can get a 10.7 compatible version of Server Admin? (The Snow Leopard version is not compatible)

I'll have to check tonight. I just realized that I haven't installed DP4 server yet, however I'd be extremely surprised if they were dropped between DP3 and DP4. There would have been a major uproar that I haven't seen.

If they are in the same place they end up in Snow Leopard, it would be /Applications/Server

fairbanx
Jun 22, 2011, 03:57 PM
This is good news! can you tell me where I went wrong? I was running Lion DP4, then downloaded the server.app and installed it. it took a while while it downloaded 'stuff' then when it had completed i just run the server.app. I looked for the Server Admin and Workgroup Manager but found nothing. Can you tell me where to find them?

Cheers mate!

Anyone know where I can get a 10.7 compatible version of Server Admin? (The Snow Leopard version is not compatible)

I'm not sure, but: I think these advanced tools are actually not included. The Server-Help in Server.app says

"Use advanced tools for more services
Managing users, groups, and services is easy with the Server app. You can change advanced settings and configure advanced accounts and services not available in the Server app by using advanced administration tools. If your server doesnít have the advanced tools (in the Server folder in Launchpad), you can install them.
For information about advanced tools, accounts, services, and settings, see the Lion Server website at www.apple.com/server/macosx/."

I don't have the server folder. So this might be included in the final version or can be added via the download site (or via AppStore?)

talmy
Jun 22, 2011, 06:41 PM
O.K. They are a separate download on developer.apple.com. This makes sense (sort-of) because they were a separate install and available as a download for Snow Leopard Server. Don't forget that the admin tools also run on client systems for remote server administration.

Here's the SLS tools link: http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1365


The link for the Lion Server tools is on the main Lion page in the developer section.

Schizoid
Jun 23, 2011, 04:59 AM
The link for the Lion Server tools is on the main Lion page in the developer section.

Trying to find the Lion Server admin stuff... no luck so far, can only see ARD 3.5 plus 10.6.x server updates... is it in a specific section?

Schizoid
Jun 23, 2011, 05:01 AM
...weirdly I found the Server tools on one of my test Lion Macs, copied it over to the Server and even though they are all 10.7 versions, only Server Admin worked...

talmy
Jun 23, 2011, 10:47 AM
Trying to find the Lion Server admin stuff... no luck so far, can only see ARD 3.5 plus 10.6.x server updates... is it in a specific section?

Under "Mac OS X Lion Developer Preview 4" are a list of 9 links. The 4th is "Server Admin Tools".

Tools from an earlier developer preview won't necessarily work.

MacsRgr8
Jun 29, 2011, 07:23 AM
In Leopard Server, the "administrator" had to use Server Admin / WGM to be able to use / administer the server. The Server Prefs.app wasn't even compatible with the server in "full" mode.

In Snow Leopard Server the "administrator" could easily use the Server Prefs.app to administer the Server, but Server Admin / WGM was preferred.

In Lion Server Apple is pushing the "administrator" to use Server.app and Server Admin / WGM aren't even installed by default anymore. Server Admin / WGM have been downgraded in relation to Server Admin / WGM in 10.6 Server.

On top of that, the costs are extremely low to purchase.

Apple really is trying to remove the "middle man"... so cheap: anyone can buy it, so easy: anyone can use it.

DoFoT9
Jun 29, 2011, 07:47 AM
In Leopard Server, the "administrator" had to use Server Admin / WGM to be able to use / administer the server. The Server Prefs.app wasn't even compatible with the server in "full" mode.

In Snow Leopard Server the "administrator" could easily use the Server Prefs.app to administer the Server, but Server Admin / WGM was preferred.

In Lion Server Apple is pushing the "administrator" to use Server.app and Server Admin / WGM aren't even installed by default anymore. Server Admin / WGM have been downgraded in relation to Server Admin / WGM in 10.6 Server.

On top of that, the costs are extremely low to purchase.

Apple really is trying to remove the "middle man"... so cheap: anyone can buy it, so easy: anyone can use it.

so, im really confused by all of this. because as far as i can see, there is only server.app with lion server, and thats all ive been using (which is absolute garbage btw!).

mind you, i hadnt upgraded from snow leopard server...

:confused:

talmy
Jun 29, 2011, 11:11 AM
as far as i can see, there is only server.app with lion server, and thats all ive been using (which is absolute garbage btw!).

Then you aren't looking far enough.:) There is a package of the other tools available for download (currently from the Developer site, but eventually available to the public like the Snow Leopard Server tools are). See an earlier post by me for links.

DoFoT9
Jun 29, 2011, 08:13 PM
Then you aren't looking far enough.:) There is a package of the other tools available for download (currently from the Developer site, but eventually available to the public like the Snow Leopard Server tools are). See an earlier post by me for links.

thanks for the reply talmy - i have just purchased the mac dev account 2 days ago, so it is all very new to me trying to find these things. thanks for the info! :)

Supa_Fly
Jul 2, 2011, 03:45 AM
Have you gents upgraded to the GM released yesterday?

Curious to what you both find?

DoFoT9
Jul 2, 2011, 07:57 PM
Have you gents upgraded to the GM released yesterday?

Curious to what you both find?

not yet sir, have to wait until work tomorrow to download/install/test it etc. will let you know :)

DHagan4755
Jul 2, 2011, 08:19 PM
@Dave Hagan
Any chance you could expand on your comment regarding the removal of Domain controller functionality in Lion Server?
This is my primary concern. I need to be able to allow windows7 machine to access my primarily mac based network running off a mac server.

Sorry about the delayed response, I don't come by this way often. Apple in its infinite wisdom has removed Samba from OS X, therefore there is no longer a Primary Domain Controller aspect to Lion Server.

talmy
Jul 2, 2011, 11:37 PM
I feel for people trying to use this in enterprise settings. I'm lucky that it has all I need for home use, probably their target audience now.

I've got a temporary Lion Server install (posting from it now) and my SL Server is still running, so it's easy to do an A-B comparison.

Server Admin lists the following services in SLS which are not in Lion Server. Remnants noted:

Address Book (in Server.app, but no options. Does it use SSL?)
AFP (in Server.app, seems to have less flexibility)
FTP - no server in Lion client either.
iCal (in Server.app, but no options)
iChat (in Server.app, don't know the limitations)
Mail (in Server.app, seems limited to one domain)
Mobile Access (I don't know what this is, never used it)
MySQL Missing
NFS Missing
Print Print server missing
Push Notification -- seems missing although I thought that was an advertised feature.
QuickTime Streaming missing
SMB No Samba, SMB limited to creating file shares. Limitation of Lion client as well.
VPN in Server.app, simplified
Web in Server.app, simplified

huntson
Jul 3, 2011, 04:47 AM
You think someone could post a link to a fileshare, megaupload, etc link of the Lion Server Tools for those of us who don't have a dev account?

willfurnell
Jul 3, 2011, 05:20 AM
You think someone could post a link to a fileshare, megaupload, etc link of the Lion Server Tools for those of us who don't have a dev account?

Wares and Illegal downloads are not allowed on this forum...

pujapuri
Jul 4, 2011, 04:06 AM
Someone show me the new webmail UI goodness :)

Supa_Fly
Jul 4, 2011, 10:30 PM
Someone show me the new webmail UI goodness :)

oooh. Goodie Gumdrops.

random.person
Jul 5, 2011, 06:34 AM
the new webmail is using the roundcube open source project. so you can go look and play with it right now:

http://roundcube.net/