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wordoflife
Feb 24, 2011, 06:40 PM
As a lot of you already know, these are going to be some new features found in Lion (http://www.apple.com/macosx/lion/). As first thoughts, there are a few things I'm not really a big fan of.
Resume, Versions, App persistance

App persistance/resume:

basically it eliminates the concept of having an open or closed app. My question is, how are we going to know what app is open and what isn't? I understand Apple doesn't really want you to worry about that, but I don't want my computer to start deciding that for me. If it starts closing apps I haven't touched for a while, then it would just take longer to open. And if Apple lets every app run in the background, won't it just use a bunch of resources? As of right now, I purposely open/close/leave apps running. It's not a mistake.

Also, as said by Apple, when you close an app, it closes, but when you open it up, it resumes where you left off. Sometimes I close apps so I can reopen it with a fresh start. I don't want my apps to resume where I left off (because thats the whole reason why I would quit it in the first place.... at least on 10.6). If I really wanted it running "or to resume" then I probably would have just left it running instead of quiting it.

I also think that having the lights under the apps in the dock are useful. I know what I want to close, and what I want to leave open. Don't feel the need to have the computer handle that for me.

I restart so my computer freshens up and works more efficiently. I don't want my stuff to br exactly in the same place it was before I turned it off. I guess you could just close out all the apps before you restart (but would they still be running when you came back?)

Versions:
basically like a time machine for your documents each time you open it up. I hope this can be disabled because I personally don't need a new "version" of my file each time I need to look at it, or make a small change. I'm not saying this won't be useful, but I'm just saying I hope it can be disabled. I wonder how much space will be used with each "version".

I'm probably going to go with the upgrade just because I'm OCD about having the latest possible software version, but I still have my doubts. I'll probably try it out myself before I buy it though.

Any thoughts on these features?
Thanks for making it down here if you read this



finder39
Feb 24, 2011, 07:37 PM
i honestly agree. I think all of these features are basically pointless :/ especially with time machine, and what seems like no true way to restart a machine

ECUpirate44
Feb 24, 2011, 07:43 PM
I agree. I still want to be able to control what apps are being used and which ones are not. I dont know how their going to do it, but i'm sure they will figure out a way to make it work. I'll probably wait until 10.7.1 to update just so they can fix all the bugs.

Cougarcat
Feb 24, 2011, 07:50 PM
I disagree. I think this is the best feature of Lion.

To the OP: It doesn't use up a bunch of resources. It works like iOS multitasking, except with full background tasks. When you "quit" it becomes suspended, which doesn't use any CPU cycles. It'll kill least used apps depending on memory usage.

-Ryan-
Feb 24, 2011, 07:50 PM
I agree with all your points. I think Resume will be a handy feature for those of us who turn off their computer overnight, but everything else is a gimmick. Launchpad? Really? I am finding it difficult to believe Apple are touting this as a key feature of the OS. :rolleyes:

wordoflife
Feb 24, 2011, 08:23 PM
i honestly agree. I think all of these features are basically pointless :/ especially with time machine, and what seems like no true way to restart a machine

Most of the new features (so far) seem very useless to me. And thats exactly how I wanted to put it, theres no true way to restart unless you manually go to Activity Monitor and quit everything out.

I agree. I still want to be able to control what apps are being used and which ones are not. I dont know how their going to do it, but i'm sure they will figure out a way to make it work. I'll probably wait until 10.7.1 to update just so they can fix all the bugs.
I'll probably end up trying 10.7 in store before I buy it. To add on to what you are saying about you wanting to control your apps ....

Some apps quit when you click the red dot and some keep running when you click the red dot. If we have both of those apps predocked, how are we going to know which one is really running and which one isn't. I like to keep iWork running in the background so I can quickly load files. However, a lot of times its just sitting there running. I want it to run, thats why I keep it open. I don't want my Mac to close it out just because I haven't touched it for a while. I also want confirmation that I have that open and running (where the light on the dock comes to play). How would I know if it automatically closed out?

I disagree. I think this is the best feature of Lion.

To the OP: It doesn't use up a bunch of resources. It works like iOS multitasking, except with full background tasks. When you "quit" it becomes suspended, which doesn't use any CPU cycles. It'll kill least used apps depending on memory usage.
My point is though, I know what I keep open in my computer and what I close. If I keep it open, it means I want it. I don't want my computer to decide for me. If I didn't want it, I probably would have closed it. One of my main gripes is that I don't know whats really running and whats not. Sure, OS X closing apps for me annoys me, but at least tell me if its running in the first place or not.

I agree with all your points. I think Resume will be a handy feature for those of us who turn off their computer overnight, but everything else is a gimmick. Launchpad? Really? I am finding it difficult to believe Apple are touting this as a key feature of the OS. :rolleyes:

Resume is great for those kind of people, but isn't it basically like a hibernation state? Basically just writing all the open stuff to the hard drive, isn't it?

And that feature wouldn't really allow a true way to restart the computer because the apps would just pop back up (or the services that are running). Restart kills everything and starts fresh. With resume, it won't kill the apps. It'll just "resume".

Cougarcat
Feb 24, 2011, 08:35 PM
I like to keep iWork running in the background so I can quickly load files. However, a lot of times its just sitting there running. I want it to run, thats why I keep it open. I don't want my Mac to close it out just because I haven't touched it for a while.


The point is that you wouldn't need to keep it sitting there running. As long as you opened it at some point since your last reboot and the system hasn't killed it to free up memory (which probably won't happen if you use it at least occasionally), it will be suspended. Suspended apps relaunching will be just as fast as if you were switching to them.

Apple's goal is to make worrying about what's running as irrelevant as it is on iOS.

wordoflife
Feb 24, 2011, 08:42 PM
The point is that you wouldn't need to keep it sitting there running. As long as you opened it at some point since your last reboot and the system hasn't killed it to free up memory (which probably won't happen if you use it at least occasionally), it will be suspended. Suspended apps relaunching will be just as fast as if you were switching to them.

Apple's goal is to make worrying about what's running as irrelevant as it is on iOS.

Yeah, but eventually it would have to terminate the app depending on how long I dont touch it. I don't want that to happen. And also, it would still be hard to differentiate which apps are running and which ones aren't.

Okay, that feature aside ... how the heck is one suppose to do a "true restart"?
Having those programs/services launch right back up isn't exactly a restart.

I'm not trying to argue with you here, just curious :) (i feel like im sounding a little defensive here, lol)

vincenz
Feb 24, 2011, 08:44 PM
Apple is trying to simplify things. They're asking the question, why even bother knowing if the app is open or not? Whats the point?

That's a pretty big step forward I think.

Cougarcat
Feb 24, 2011, 08:45 PM
Yeah, but eventually it would have to terminate the app depending on how long I dont touch it.

Depending on how long you touch it and how much memory you have free.

As long as you have a decent amount of ram, and aren't using 20 apps at once, it should stay suspended.

Do you honestly just open Pages up and not use it for days? That seems strange to me.

I do too wonder how one will perform a "true restart." iOS doesn't resume apps when you reboot it, so we can't look to there for clues. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple hid it. Press the option key, click the Apple Menu, "Restart" is now "Hard Restart."

wordoflife
Feb 24, 2011, 08:58 PM
Apple is trying to simplify things. They're asking the question, why even bother knowing if the app is open or not? Whats the point?

That's a pretty big step forward I think.

They should probably get rid of the dock too. I mean, we can just use launchpad to open something, right?

Depending on how long you touch it and how much memory you have free.

As long as you have a decent amount of ram, and aren't using 20 apps at once, it should stay suspended.

Do you honestly just open Pages up and not use it for days? That seems strange to me.

I do too wonder how one will perform a "true restart." iOS doesn't resume apps when you reboot it, so we can't look to there for clues. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple hid it. Press the option key, click the Apple Menu, "Restart" is now "Hard Restart."

I guess you have a point. Right now though, I have 600MB free with Safari, Chrome, Preview, Firefox, and Twitter open. Normally I have a few more stuff running. They are all being used. Its not that I don't use pages for days, its that I run so many apps since I last use pages that I'd likely run out of memory and it would cause pages to quit before I used it next.

I can't imagine apple trying to make this anymore complicated. After all, theyre trying to simplify stuff. Let's see what happens. Again, those were just my initial thoughts and concerns.

I guess you don't really need the dock indicator light because if you do mission control, all the icons for the open apps would probably show up. Meh. Still like the dock indicator lights though.

Does this mean that apps won't bounce on the dock anymore? :(

Cougarcat
Feb 24, 2011, 09:10 PM
I guess you don't really need the dock indicator light because if you do mission control, all the icons for the open apps would probably show up. Meh. Still like the dock indicator lights though.

Does this mean that apps won't bounce on the dock anymore? :(

No, they'll bounce. Apps still have to load initially.

I think I did read somewhere that the indicator lights will be there for active, non suspended applications, as an option in system preferences. It's off by default, though.

Also keep in mind that that we don't know exactly how the OS will decide wether or not to suspend an app. I hope somebody with the beta does an in-depth preview of how exactly it works.

If I had to guess, it would be this:
-All apps a user opens upon boot remain fully active until the user quits them, in which case they go into suspension
-OS kills the last used app that was "quit" as memory becomes needed.

In other words, you could open Pages as you do today and not worry about it "quitting" without your permission.

Apple could be more dramatic about it, though, and suspend apps that the user has opened but hasn't explicitly quit, if the app has no windows open and isn't doing any tasks or network related activities. This would free up CPU for the apps that are being used.

wordoflife
Feb 24, 2011, 09:14 PM
No, they'll bounce. Apps still have to load initially.

I think I did read somewhere that the indicator lights will be there for active, non suspended applications, as an option in system preferences. It's off by default, though.

Also keep in mind that that we don't know exactly how the OS will decide wether or not to suspend an app. I hope somebody with the beta does an in-depth preview of how exactly it works.

If I had to guess, it would be this:
-All apps a user opens upon boot remain fully active until the user quits them, in which case they go into suspension
-OS kills the last used app that was "quit" as memory becomes needed.

In other words, you could open Pages as you do today and not worry about it "quitting" without your permission.

Apple could be more dramatic about it, though, and suspend apps that the user has opened but hasn't explicitly quit, if the app has no windows open and isn't doing any tasks or network related activities. This would free up CPU for the apps that are being used.

Sounds good. And of course, apps we genuinely want to quit, we can just Quit it like we normally do.

If they have the dock lights in 10.7, I'll be very happy.

It's really hard to say how they are planning to do this. Hopefully we'll know soon.

Still wondering how we're going to get a real restart though.

Cougarcat
Feb 24, 2011, 09:16 PM
Sounds good. And of course, apps we genuinely want to quit, we can just Quit it like we normally do.



Well, no. The quit menu item will actually suspend the app. It remains to be seen whether Apple will provide an iOS-like UI to kill an app, or if you'll have to use Activity Monitor in the rare instance you need to do it.

wordoflife
Feb 24, 2011, 09:18 PM
Well, no. The quit menu item will actually suspend the app. It remains to be seen whether Apple will provide an iOS-like UI to kill an app, or if you'll have to use Activity Monitor in the rare instance you need to do it.

Ah. I figured clicking the red dot would suspend it, and the "Quit" button would actually tell the OS "No, I am not planning to open this app soon again". You wouldn't really know if the app got suspended or not without the indicator lights in the dock. Hope that still there.

Cougarcat
Feb 24, 2011, 09:38 PM
Ah. I figured clicking the red dot would suspend it, and the "Quit" button would actually tell the OS "No, I am not planning to open this app soon again". You wouldn't really know if the app got suspended or not without the indicator lights in the dock. Hope that still there.

That wouldn't work, because unfortunately different apps have different behaviors regarding the red close button. In most cases, it closes the window without closing the app.

wordoflife
Feb 25, 2011, 04:02 PM
Well it looks like you can enable the dock indicator lights in 10.7. Yay.

Cougarcat
Feb 25, 2011, 04:16 PM
Yup. In fact, the behavior for loading/quitting apps really hasn't changed at all. The only thing the average user will notice is that recently used apps will launch *very* quickly.

kirky29
Feb 25, 2011, 05:43 PM
Well you can turn the dock lights on in the dock settings panel.
So far I haven't noticed much difference in the way it's closing apps etc.
I always leave Preview & Quicktime open so opening a pic is super quick etc.
Same with Safari, Mail, iTunes.
Things like Photoshop I manually quit.

ufkdo
Feb 25, 2011, 05:57 PM
I'll just say something about versions.

As far as I know from Aperture, the versions of an image are very very small because they only contains new codes you added to master image.

And I think Apple applies the exact same thing to whole os x. When you edit a word file, master of that file is, lets say, 1 MB, and 10 versions of it will be 50 kb, or something.