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intempo808
Feb 25, 2011, 04:29 AM
Front Row's gone, the icon that was in my dock turned to a question mark and now it's no where to be seen... Have they ditched it?



Pinksteady
Feb 25, 2011, 05:12 AM
Let's hope so, in comparison to something like Plex, FrontRow was pants.

Apple will never provide a decent HTPC app because of their reliance on DRM video and iTunes content - only people who shop directly through Apple will appreciate an Apple HTPC app - everyone else (e.g. illegal downloaders) will still seek a 3rd party replacement.

Kilamite
Feb 25, 2011, 07:40 AM
It would be nice if Front Row could replicate the Apple TV.

By that, I mean, actually list TV shows in seasons, rather than all the episodes at once. And have YouTube embedded too..

Zcott
Feb 25, 2011, 08:35 AM
Here's hoping. The 15 seconds it takes to load Front Row when I accidentally press cmd-esc are the longest 15 seconds of my day.

ajvizzgamer101
Feb 25, 2011, 08:53 AM
Not like anyone used it. Most people will either use a Set top box or iTunes.

appleguy123
Feb 25, 2011, 08:43 PM
I used it sometimes. I do at least hope that it's compatible with Lion and that I can just image it off the snow leopard disk or download it from a torrent site.

Michaelgtrusa
Feb 25, 2011, 08:50 PM
Did you migrate everything?

Blakeasd
Feb 25, 2011, 09:48 PM
FrontRow has been discontinued in Mac OS X 10.7 Lion.

kuwisdelu
Feb 25, 2011, 09:52 PM
Interesting to hear.

Meh, on the one hand, I was kind of hoping they'd actually fix it in Lion. On the other hand, since it was useless in it's current form to me anyway, I don't really care to see it go.

(My only problem was it's lack of support for subtitles made it utterly useless to me... other than that it was fine for me. Plex and XMBC are overkill for my needs. I just want a nice TV-friendly front-end to my non-iTMS iTunes content that doesn't go blank whenever subtitles appear.)

brettryan
Feb 26, 2011, 06:34 AM
FrontRow has been discontinued in Mac OS X 10.7 Lion.

Sad to hear that :( I always use it, I have ABC Australia vodcasts that appear in there, I don't download movies illegally so dont have that problem, but you know you can create a link to a folder for downloaded content to appear.

I think using iTunes directly for me won't help much, it's smaller font makes it hard to see, and you can't navigate with the remote.

irishv
Feb 26, 2011, 08:05 AM
FrontRow has been discontinued in Mac OS X 10.7 Lion.

Well that is unfortunate. I've been hoping for a true update to Front Row for some time now. I still think one feature for Lion will be the ability to run iOS apps, including some version of the AppleTV interface. I currently use Plex and EyeTV on my Mac Mini HTPC, but would love a unified interface that syncs everything (playcounts, metadata, etc) with iTunes and my iPhone.

Tilpots
Feb 26, 2011, 08:12 AM
FrontRow has been discontinued in Mac OS X 10.7 Lion.

Can you provide a link or more info? Thanks!

newfoundglory
Feb 26, 2011, 10:43 AM
I tried everything I could to get FrontRow 1.1 from SL working in Lion, but it just won't launch. Nothing much thats helpful in the console either. Seems to be related to application extensions.

Saladinos
Feb 26, 2011, 10:44 AM
Let's hope so, in comparison to something like Plex, FrontRow was pants.

Apple will never provide a decent HTPC app because of their reliance on DRM video and iTunes content - only people who shop directly through Apple will appreciate an Apple HTPC app - everyone else (e.g. illegal downloaders) will still seek a 3rd party replacement.

FR works with 3rd party codecs and reads videos from your home dir. Just create a shortcut in your movies folder to wherever you want (incl. Ext drives) and you can navigate to it.

PBF
Feb 26, 2011, 11:12 AM
Too bad as I was using Front Row for watching new movie trailers. There's no other way to watch those without Front Row, is there? :(

Tango Charlie
Feb 26, 2011, 11:38 AM
Very disappointing to hear!

I, for one, prefer the simplicity and performance of Front Row over the other HTPC apps I've tried.

:mad:

reubs
Feb 26, 2011, 11:49 AM
Strangely, I didn't even realize Front Row was still on Snow Leopard.

CarsonGallo
Feb 26, 2011, 03:50 PM
Wait a second why doesn't somebody just make an Apple TV app for Mac, seriously I'm surprised somebody hasn't done it already, it would basically do everything the new Apple TV has, I mean all it would really have to be is an application, like another HTPC app so its possible, and AirPlay would work thanks to Erica Sadun. Hell Erica Sadun should totally do, we gotta get her to forget working on Banana TV and work on an Apple TV emulator for Mac instead, whose with me?

kainjow
Feb 26, 2011, 03:59 PM
I tried everything I could to get FrontRow 1.1 from SL working in Lion, but it just won't launch. Nothing much thats helpful in the console either. Seems to be related to application extensions.

Did you copy over /System/Library/CoreServices/Front Row.app?. You might also need to copy /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/BackRow.framework/ if that doesn't exist.

Edit: /Applications/Front Row.app calls a function from /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/BezelServices.framework to initiate Front Row, so if that function doesn't exist in Lion's BezelServices framework, it will be much harder, if not impossible, to get FR to work, assuming that's the actual issue preventing it from working.

Justinf79
Feb 26, 2011, 04:31 PM
FR has never worked right under SL for me anyways. It never could be able to connect to the internet for some reason. :rolleyes:

kuwisdelu
Feb 26, 2011, 04:33 PM
Yes, porting the Apple TV interface would be nice.

Or I could just buy an Apple TV...

PBF
Feb 26, 2011, 04:37 PM
Anyone know of alternative way to watch movie trailers that were in Front Row? Ta.

QuarterSwede
Feb 26, 2011, 04:38 PM
I won't miss it. They stopped using iTunes to run it on SL so I could no longer go from listening to something in iTunes and having it continue on in FR. Stopped using it once I upgraded to SL and AirPlay came out. Having that kind of power in your pocket is amazing and very convenient.

I wouldn't mind a fullscreen iTunes AppleTV like interface though. Maybe that's what Apple is thinking for iTunes 11 in Lion (version # is a guess).

Anyone know of alternative way to watch movie trailers that were in Front Row? Ta.
http://trailers.apple.com/ or iTunes.

CarsonGallo
Feb 26, 2011, 04:46 PM
I think I'll start a new thread for just that idea. I'll call it FrontRow alternative Idea or something. O and maybe you can trick fromrow into launching by going to system preferences - CDs and DVDs and making it so it'll launch its script when u insert a DVD or CD or whatever. Let me know if that works.

Intell
Feb 26, 2011, 04:49 PM
Wait a second why doesn't somebody just make an Apple TV app for Mac, seriously I'm surprised somebody hasn't done it already, it would basically do everything the new Apple TV has, I mean all it would really have to be is an application, like another HTPC app so its possible, and AirPlay would work thanks to Erica Sadun. Hell Erica Sadun should totally do, we gotta get her to forget working on Banana TV and work on an Apple TV emulator for Mac instead, whose with me?

There was an Apple TV app for Mac. It was called AppleTV4Mac. It ran only on Intell based Tiger and the latest version of the Apple TV OS was the one right before Airtunes support was put on the ATV. It does not work on Leopard or above.

TheAppToMyApple
Jul 13, 2011, 10:48 PM
I think I might have figured something out that can get Front Row to work on OS X Lion, because I'm running it on Lion Goldmaster with hardly any problems (just a few stalls here and there but it plays video, audio, and misc. like a charm ;) )

This is my first post (well, a mere reply, if at that) here on macrumors, so I'm still working my way around things. And btw if you're someone who can get something really tricky in just a few words, I put an "In A Nutshell" version below the "Step-By-Step-By-Step-By-Step."

Okay, here was my long (but well worth it) process. I won't provide any links, in case that breaks any rules. I don't think it would because all you have to download is the 2.1.7 update on the Apple website (which shouldn't be too hard to find). Just download the image, mount it, select the package on the disk image and you're on to the next step. After that, click "Show Package Contents." Next, locate the "Archive.pax.gz" file within the "Contents" folder. Extract it and move the result folder (should be "System," but if the folder is the same title as the ".gz" file, just go into that and you should find the "System" folder.) to your Desktop for easier access. Go into the "System" folder and you should find a "Library" folder. Open that and you should find the following folders:

CoreServices
LaunchAgents
PrivateFrameworks

Now, believe it or not, but all these folders are the paths were the installer goes to in order to update the files. Since we don't have those files, just open three Finder windows, and go to the paths in which the folders in the "Archive" package state. If you are unaware, here are the paths:

Macintosh HD>System>Library>CoreServices
Macintosh HD>System>Library>LaunchAgents
Macintosh HD>System>Library>PrivateFrameworks

Locate each folder one at a time and just drag and drop the files in the folders of the same name to the ones in the paths above. Once all the files are put neatly in place, just run the updater and it will think that Front Row is installed! Once that's done, it's installed...But there's a catch. The app itself (if double-clicked from the Applications folder or opened from LaunchPad) won't open. Simple: Just do the Front Row shortcut (Command-Escape) and the screen should fade, giving you Front Row!

Now, here's the "In A Nutshell" version:

Download the 2.1.7 update on the apple website. Once the image is mounted, take the package and select "show package contents." extract the archive.pax.gz file onto your desktop. you should be faced with a "system" folder. dig further into it until you find three folders. these are, as you probably know, folder names in the directory "macintosh hd>system>library." back to the extracted folders, open those puppies up and copy the files within into the folders of the same name. once all files are basically transferred to the hard drive, where it can now be detected by the updater, run the package, do the install, and you're almost done! just the only way to access front row at this point is to use it's keyboard shortcut (command-escape) and you should get good 'ol front row once again!

If you guys run into problems I'll do my darndest to help! :apple:

Jerome Morrow
Jul 14, 2011, 12:32 AM
I think I might have figured something out that can get Front Row to work on OS X Lion, because I'm running it on Lion Goldmaster with hardly any problems (just a few stalls here and there but it plays video, audio, and misc. like a charm ;) )

This is my first post (well, a mere reply, if at that) here on macrumors, so I'm still working my way around things. And btw if you're someone who can get something really tricky in just a few words, I put an "In A Nutshell" version below the "Step-By-Step-By-Step-By-Step."

Okay, here was my long (but well worth it) process. I won't provide any links, in case that breaks any rules. I don't think it would because all you have to download is the 2.1.7 update on the Apple website (which shouldn't be too hard to find). Just download the image, mount it, select the package on the disk image and you're on to the next step. After that, click "Show Package Contents." Next, locate the "Archive.pax.gz" file within the "Contents" folder. Extract it and move the result folder (should be "System," but if the folder is the same title as the ".gz" file, just go into that and you should find the "System" folder.) to your Desktop for easier access. Go into the "System" folder and you should find a "Library" folder. Open that and you should find the following folders:

CoreServices
LaunchAgents
PrivateFrameworks

Now, believe it or not, but all these folders are the paths were the installer goes to in order to update the files. Since we don't have those files, just open three Finder windows, and go to the paths in which the folders in the "Archive" package state. If you are unaware, here are the paths:

Macintosh HD>System>Library>CoreServices
Macintosh HD>System>Library>LaunchAgents
Macintosh HD>System>Library>PrivateFrameworks

Locate each folder one at a time and just drag and drop the files in the folders of the same name to the ones in the paths above. Once all the files are put neatly in place, just run the updater and it will think that Front Row is installed! Once that's done, it's installed...But there's a catch. The app itself (if double-clicked from the Applications folder or opened from LaunchPad) won't open. Simple: Just do the Front Row shortcut (Command-Escape) and the screen should fade, giving you Front Row!

Now, here's the "In A Nutshell" version:

Download the 2.1.7 update on the apple website. Once the image is mounted, take the package and select "show package contents." extract the archive.pax.gz file onto your desktop. you should be faced with a "system" folder. dig further into it until you find three folders. these are, as you probably know, folder names in the directory "macintosh hd>system>library." back to the extracted folders, open those puppies up and copy the files within into the folders of the same name. once all files are basically transferred to the hard drive, where it can now be detected by the updater, run the package, do the install, and you're almost done! just the only way to access front row at this point is to use it's keyboard shortcut (command-escape) and you should get good 'ol front row once again!

If you guys run into problems I'll do my darndest to help! :apple:

Awesome, dude :)

Intell
Jul 14, 2011, 12:37 AM
The 2.1.7 update was for Leopard. You may have better compatibility if you pull the same files included in the update from Snow Leopard.

Jerome Morrow
Jul 14, 2011, 02:08 AM
Works with remote here too. I basically just moved all Front Row files fom my Snow Leopard backup and all is working great.

talkingfuture
Jul 14, 2011, 02:53 AM
I use front row a lot as it was perfect for the way I have my media collection set up. One possible reason I thought of for its demise is full screen apps. Essentially front row is a full screen remote friendly interface for iTunes. Perhaps there will be an update to iTunes that allows it to run full screen with the apple remote?

PeterHolbrook
Jul 14, 2011, 04:43 AM
@TheAppToMyApple:

Thank you for your detailed and fruitful explanation. It didn't work for me exactly as you said, but it gave me pointers that might be useful for others. In my experience, this is what must be done. If you have access to a Front Row previously installed in Snow Leopard, no download of a Leopard version is necessary from Apple. Proceed as follows:


Go to /System/Library/CoreServices of your Snow Leopard disk and locate Front Row (an application). Copy that to /System/Library/CoreServices of your Lion disk.
Go to /System/Library/LaunchAgents of your Snow Leopard disk and locate com.apple.RemoteUI.plist. Copy that to /System/Library/LaunchAgents of your Lion disk.
Go to /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks of your Snow Leopard disk and locate a couple of folders: BackRow.framework and iPhotoAccess.framework. Copy them to /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks of your Lion disk.
Go to /Applications of your Snow Leopard disk and locate Front Row (an application). Copy that to /Applications of your Lion disk.


In my case, doing the above wasn't enough as such, so I had to restart my Mac. Sure enough, when I pressed Command-Esc, Front Row appeared! Curiously enough, I can also launch Front Row by double-clicking on its icon.

So, it would appear that forum members who said this was a hoax were seriously mistaken.

Jerome Morrow
Jul 14, 2011, 05:55 AM
Why Apple decided to remove it is beyond me. It's great for quick photo demo or to watch some movies from iTunes.

But yes it's not a hoax. Works great.

iAmYou
Jul 14, 2011, 06:14 AM
I followed these directions.
And front row launches remote works however none of my iTunes content show up. What did i miss?

vlady
Jul 14, 2011, 06:29 AM
never use front row…the subtitle text is bugging me…better use vlc…

Jerome Morrow
Jul 14, 2011, 06:40 AM
I followed these directions.
And front row launches remote works however none of my iTunes content show up. What did i miss?

Mine is all there. Tell me you are not using iTunes 10.5 beta?

iAmYou
Jul 14, 2011, 06:57 AM
Mine is all there. Tell me you are not using iTunes 10.5 beta?

Ahh... Yep sure am. Guess thats the culprit.

urkel
Jul 14, 2011, 07:38 AM
One thing Apple is missing is an iTunes server to allow 24/7 access for AppleTV and iDevices. Because for those of us who rely on iTunes for our media then the solution presented the most is "Go buy a Mac Mini" which makes even less sense if Lion doesnt have Front Row.

For me, my iTunes works like this. I keep my iTunes files on my Time Capsule which resides behind my TV. Next to the Time Capsule is my AppleTV, but in order to access the TC iTunes library I need to turn on either my electricity guzzling Windows powerhouse downstairs or my Laptop docked in the office and connect wirelessly to those machines.

Its hardly an efficient setup and if they eliminate FrontRow then it makes the Mac Mini a less capable Media playback device. Hopefully Apple has to have some sort of official solution up their sleeve... but maybe not. This has been an ignored problem for a while now.

Jerome Morrow
Jul 14, 2011, 08:29 AM
Ahh... Yep sure am. Guess thats the culprit.

iTunes beta changes library file format so that previous version doesn't understand it, so i guess Front Row won't too.

iAmYou
Jul 14, 2011, 09:27 AM
iTunes beta changes library file format so that previous version doesn't understand it, so i guess Front Row won't too.

Well crap. I really miss Front Row

Jerome Morrow
Jul 14, 2011, 09:47 AM
Well crap. I really miss Front Row

You can downgrade iTunes and reimport your media.

iAmYou
Jul 14, 2011, 10:22 AM
You can downgrade iTunes and reimport your media.

Gotta keep the beta to test iOS 5 for now

PeterHolbrook
Jul 14, 2011, 10:27 AM
Well crap. I really miss Front Row

??? I don't quite follow. A procedure has been detailed that allows you to run Front Row in Lion EXACTLY THE SAME as it ran in Snow Leopard. Then, why exactly do you "miss" Front Row in Lion when it can be "manually" installed and work flawlessly?

iAmYou
Jul 14, 2011, 11:37 AM
??? I don't quite follow. A procedure has been detailed that allows you to run Front Row in Lion EXACTLY THE SAME as it ran in Snow Leopard. Then, why exactly do you "miss" Front Row in Lion when it can be "manually" installed and work flawlessly?

You obviously didn't read the whole thread before jumping to your conclusion and posting your thought.

PeterHolbrook
Jul 14, 2011, 12:09 PM
You obviously didn't read the whole thread before jumping to your conclusion and posting your thought.

On the contrary, I noticed the various member's rants about how much they were(n't) going to miss Front Row because it was useful or useless for them and their assessments on various "similar" products. Now that we know Front Row runs well in Lion, for you to say you "really miss Front Row" is truly strange. Since it runs, and it runs well, what exactly do you "miss"?

Cougarcat
Jul 14, 2011, 12:19 PM
On the contrary, I noticed the various member's rants about how much they were(n't) going to miss Front Row because it was useful or useless for them and their assessments on various "similar" products. Now that we know Front Row runs well in Lion, for you to say you "really miss Front Row" is truly strange. Since it runs, and it runs well, what exactly do you "miss"?

Apparently you didn't notice the posts where it says iTunes 10.5, which is needed for iOS 5, breaks front row.

Intell
Jul 14, 2011, 12:23 PM
Apparently you didn't notice the posts where it says iTunes 10.5, which is needed for iOS 5, breaks front row.

By that statement is seems iTunes 10.5 will break Front Row on Leopard and Snow Leopard as well.

PeterHolbrook
Jul 14, 2011, 12:53 PM
Apparently you didn't notice the posts where it says iTunes 10.5, which is needed for iOS 5, breaks front row.

Apparently you didn't notice those are still betas. Front Row (in Lion) works flawlessly with the latest officially released iTunes (10.3.1).

Cougarcat
Jul 14, 2011, 01:06 PM
Apparently you didn't notice those are still betas. Front Row (in Lion) works flawlessly with the latest officially released iTunes (10.3.1).

Yes, but with iTunes' new library format and Frontrow never getting updated again, I highly doubt the final version of iTunes will work either.

Intell
Jul 14, 2011, 01:15 PM
Yes, but with iTunes' new library format and Frontrow never getting updated again, I highly doubt the final version of iTunes will work either.

But what will happen to Leopard and Snow Leopard's Front Row? Will they still work properly?

iAmYou
Jul 14, 2011, 01:17 PM
On the contrary, I noticed the various member's rants about how much they were(n't) going to miss Front Row because it was useful or useless for them and their assessments on various "similar" products. Now that we know Front Row runs well in Lion, for you to say you "really miss Front Row" is truly strange. Since it runs, and it runs well, what exactly do you "miss"?

OK I guess I will spell it out.
I can not use it anymore, because I have the beta iTunes 10.5
I need that in order to run iOS 5, therefore front row is broken and does not work properly and I miss it.

PeterHolbrook
Jul 14, 2011, 01:23 PM
OK I guess I will spell it out.
I can not use it anymore, because I have the beta iTunes 10.5
I need that in order to run iOS 5, therefore front row is broken and does not work properly and I miss it.

Fine. Yours is a development environment, by choice, not a production environment. Front Row doesn't work well with beta iTunes, AND THAT INCLUDES Snow Leopard DEVELOPMENT ENVIRONMENTS. So, those who, by choice, are experimenting with beta versions of iTunes, can't expect everything to work the same as in a production environment. As already said, Front Row works well in Lion, and it works well with the latest production version of iTunes. Have I spelled it out clearly enough?

iAmYou
Jul 14, 2011, 02:12 PM
Fine. Yours is a development environment, by choice, not a production environment. Front Row doesn't work well with beta iTunes, AND THAT INCLUDES Snow Leopard DEVELOPMENT ENVIRONMENTS. So, those who, by choice, are experimenting with beta versions of iTunes, can't expect everything to work the same as in a production environment. As already said, Front Row works well in Lion, and it works well with the latest production version of iTunes. Have I spelled it out clearly enough?

I never said I expected anything.
Nor did I ever come across as arrogant as you, about it.
All I said is I MISS IT and I do. Perhaps it will work again in the future.

PeterHolbrook
Jul 14, 2011, 03:10 PM
I never said I expected anything.
Nor did I ever come across as arrogant as you, about it.
All I said is I MISS IT and I do. Perhaps it will work again in the future.


No "perhaps" is required. It works fine now. As for arrogance, you could teach everybody a lesson or two. And I don't want to go away. Why should I? Can you make me go away? Purchase yourself a plot of desert and bask in it.

iAmYou
Jul 15, 2011, 10:04 PM
If anyone is interested.
Got it sort of working. OSX Lion GM and iTunes 10.5B
Front Row still reads the movie folders info.
So I created an alias of my iTunes movies folder and TV shows folder, placed them in the general movies folder and front row now sees them.
Its not the best solution but will do for now.

mac-hatter
Jul 17, 2011, 03:23 PM
Greetings all!

http://bit.ly/pzyIyl that is a link to my blog entry containing a .pkg that will install Front Row on Lion. As Steve Jobs would put it, its that simple.

Kind Regards,
Ralph perdomo.

ErikGrim
Jul 17, 2011, 09:05 PM
To recap without all the bile:

- You are able to install FrontRow in Lion
- FrontRow won't work with iTunes 10.5
- iTunes 10.5 is required for iOS5
- There are better alternatives to FrontRow out there (i.e. Plex)
- However those won't work with DRM content bought on iTunes

Can we all just get along now?

Takuro
Jul 17, 2011, 10:46 PM
Greetings all!

http://bit.ly/pzyIyl that is a link to my blog entry containing a .pkg that will install Front Row on Lion. As Steve Jobs would put it, its that simple.

Kind Regards,
Ralph perdomo.

Thanks. The installer worked great for me. For iTunes beta users like me, I’m sure once 10.5 goes final, Snow Leopard will see some sort of compatibility update (unless Apple engineers really jump ship on 10.6 and cease development, which they won’t.) Then, somebody can port it over to Lion. But for now, well have to be patient.

I really don’t get why Apple dropped Front Row when literally nothing extra required to have kept it running on Lion. It’s not the biggest resource hog in the world either, so I don’t see the rationale. It probably boils down to sales of Apple TV, which can be cannibalized by this sort of interface. Meh...

iAmYou and PeterHolbrook: Just FYI, you’re sort of flooding the thread. I read the entire history of exchanges, and it seems to have been rooted in some misunderstanding toward the semantics in a *single* sentence from a page or two back. Nobody else here seems to care.

mac-hatter
Jul 17, 2011, 11:32 PM
great i'm glad to hear it worked for you. i believe you are correct, i too anticipate an update to itunes on snow leopard as it is not yet deprecated. until then we can keep on (front) rowing--ha!

PeterHolbrook
Jul 18, 2011, 03:40 AM
iAmYou and PeterHolbrook: Just FYI, you’re sort of flooding the thread.

Threads wouldn't be threads if they couldn't be added to, would they? If someone has something to say, they should be allowed to say it, no matter somebody's opinion about thread-flooding.

Takuro
Jul 18, 2011, 06:09 AM
Threads wouldn't be threads if they couldn't be added to, would they? If someone has something to say, they should be allowed to say it, no matter somebody's opinion about thread-flooding.

I can see where this is headed. Everybody suddenly becomes an advocate for free speech when it involves their own opinions. Not getting sucked into this…

I tried.

PeterHolbrook
Jul 18, 2011, 08:41 AM
I can see where this is headed. Everybody suddenly becomes an advocate for free speech when it involves their own opinions. Not getting sucked into this…

I tried.

You mean you are an advocate for free speech when it involves YOUR own opinion, don't you? I see where you are headed. It's transparent.

urkel
Jul 18, 2011, 11:26 AM
You mean you are an advocate for free speech when it involves YOUR own opinion, don't you? I see where you are headed. It's transparent.
Is there an amendment that gets you to stop?

If you feel your rights are violated then why not call your congressman or write a hit country song? You did provide some good info at first, but all the thumbs down on your posts should indicate how unnecessarily hostile youre coming off on a topic that doesnt really require such an abrasive tone.

PeterHolbrook
Jul 18, 2011, 12:35 PM
Is there an amendment that gets you to stop?

If you feel your rights are violated then why not call your congressman or write a hit country song? You did provide some good info at first, but all the thumbs down on your posts should indicate how unnecessarily hostile youre coming off on a topic that doesnt really require such an abrasive tone.

Yours, however, is an excellent example of a non-hostile comment. And you didn't even have to get in touch with your congressman. Congratulations! By the way, have you EVER provided anything remotely useful?

Takuro
Jul 18, 2011, 01:33 PM
..........

Anyways, front row's been running pretty nice. I've got it re-enabled on a few machines now.

natd1993
Jul 18, 2011, 01:45 PM
Greetings all!

http://bit.ly/pzyIyl that is a link to my blog entry containing a .pkg that will install Front Row on Lion. As Steve Jobs would put it, its that simple.

Kind Regards,
Ralph perdomo.

Thanks mate! Worked like a charm! :D

mac-hatter
Jul 18, 2011, 04:14 PM
Thanks mate! Worked like a charm! :D

woohoo!!!!

urkel
Jul 18, 2011, 04:28 PM
Yours, however, is an excellent example of a non-hostile comment. And you didn't even have to get in touch with your congressman. Congratulations! By the way, have you EVER provided anything remotely useful?
Yes.

(Anyway, to everyone else I apologize for arming the hijacker. Just like the others, I was hoping to get the thread to be about the subject instead of about people but was wrong. Oh well, we all make mistakes) :p

PeterHolbrook
Jul 18, 2011, 05:05 PM
Yes.

(Anyway, to everyone else I apologize for arming the hijacker. Just like the others, I was hoping to get the thread to be about the subject instead of about people but was wrong. Oh well, we all make mistakes) :p

Indeed. Especially those who, after being advised about the feasibility of installing a programme, quickly jumped to offer "better alternatives" that nobody had asked for, or criticising the level of hackery involved in all these procedures. Such behaviour might be an interesting subject for someone interested in abnormal psychology.

Soliber
Jul 19, 2011, 01:24 AM
--completely off topic--
Not willing to stir up another mess, but PeterHolbrook, do you have some kind of stake in the continued survival of Front Row?
This the second thread in which you defend the continued use of Front Row with more perseverance than a Spartan going off to war... Not being critical, just wondering :confused:

PeterHolbrook
Jul 19, 2011, 01:55 AM
--completely off topic--
Not willing to stir up another mess, but PeterHolbrook, do you have some kind of stake in the continued survival of Front Row?
Do you have something at stake in its demise?

This the second thread in which you defend the continued use of Front Row with more perseverance than a Spartan going off to war... Not being critical, just wondering :confused:
You do seem confused. I'm not defending the survival of anything, sir. I'm merely pointing out the announcement of its death was premature. It's curious this reality irritates the likes of you.

Kyle4
Jul 19, 2011, 02:18 AM
Front Row was a program I toyed around with for about a week, thought was really cool and then never opened it again. I won't miss it, there's much better ways to stream and view content on a Mac and other devices. As an aside, people like mac-hatter will make it available to those who want it. (Bookmarked that for the future, thanks!)

PeterHolbrook
Jul 19, 2011, 03:59 AM
Front Row was a program I toyed around with for about a week
So?

, thought was really cool and then never opened it again.
The same happens with scores of programmes we all run.

I won't miss it, there's much better ways to stream and view content on a Mac and other devices.
Much better ways to do what Front Row does? Says who?

As an aside, people like mac-hatter will make it available to those who want it. (Bookmarked that for the future, thanks!)
Indeed, it has ALREADY been made available.

haravikk
Jul 19, 2011, 04:12 AM
As I mentioned in another thread about this, I'm pretty disappointed. Front Row made it easy to use your Mac Mini as a media box, which was supposed to be of one of its features given the HDMI port it has!

I had hope Apple would just replace Front Row with a port of whatever the Apple TV runs, since it should all be Objective-C and easy to move across, but apparently not :(

Front Row may not have been perfect, but it was nice and easy to use, and just there, which was all I ever really needed of it.

I've installed Plex, but really to me Plex is the absolute opposite; it does too much! It lacks the simplicity of Front Row, which only really needs to organise TV shows by season and it'd be perfect. All Plex does is give me false information about files in favour of a quick-look preview of what's actually there.

PeterHolbrook
Jul 19, 2011, 04:21 AM
As I mentioned in another thread about this, I'm pretty disappointed.

No need to be disappointed, my friend. Front Row still works in Lion exactly the same as it worked in Snow Leopard. Simply install the relevant package and you are done.

Kyle4
Jul 19, 2011, 05:21 AM
The same happens with scores of programmes we all run.



Yes, this happens a lot. I think it has to do with the overwhelming quantity and quality of apps all over the net now. It wouldn't be surprising to see many improved or better Front Row like apps crop up after Lion is released to make up for its absence.

Takuro
Jul 19, 2011, 06:18 AM
Don't feed the troll. I noticed 90% of his retorts so far have been "No, you're the one who (insert last remark that was made about him here.)" Remember in 1st grade when kids used to chant "I am rubber, you are glue, anything you say bounces off me and sticks to you?" Well, some people apparently live by it as if it was some religious code, even into adulthood.

By even having said that, I'm sure I'm going to evoke the reply "No, you're the one who says 'no you're the one.. ' " Maybe if that is the case, doing it enough times will send him into a infinite loop of rages. So best be careful. Maybe if we start yelling out pleasantries to him, we can prevent it and have him shout the same words of encouragement back. Thus adverting future disaster and devastation to this thread.

PeterHolbrook
Jul 19, 2011, 07:15 AM
Don't feed the troll.

That's an excellent plan. I, for one, will be extra careful in the feed provided for your sustenance.

CarsonGallo
Jul 19, 2011, 08:15 PM
Greetings all!

http://bit.ly/pzyIyl that is a link to my blog entry containing a .pkg that will install Front Row on Lion. As Steve Jobs would put it, its that simple.

Kind Regards,
Ralph perdomo.

Well it does the fade to black animation and pauses any media playing. But then it just immediately Fades back out, as if it crashed. Running latest version of GM Lion, any ideas mac users.

mac-hatter
Jul 19, 2011, 08:28 PM
Well it does the fade to black animation and pauses any media playing. But then it just immediately Fades back out, as if it crashed. Running latest version of GM Lion, any ideas mac users.

Weird. Open up console log and copy/paste the crash log generated for front row. That should shed some light

(under applications/utilities/console. On the left, under file, there should be an entry under ~/library/logs crash reporter --or thereabouts)

Takuro
Jul 19, 2011, 08:40 PM
Mac-hatter made the front page of 9to5mac for his installer. Pretty cool stuff. Congrats!

http://9to5mac.com/2011/07/19/os-x-lion-kills-front-row-heres-how-to-get-it-back/

haravikk
Jul 20, 2011, 06:12 AM
Someone mentioned that the iTunes update may stop the Front Row "hack" from working? Is that the case?

I've just uninstalled Plex; its insistence on fetching album/movie data is just horrible, as it means the server (required to run Plex) is a huge hog in the background that just has my hard-drives thrashing away non-stop, unlike Front Row which doesn't do anything until you open it, and just uses quicklook previews which are much better as I can assign series artwork if I really need to myself.

If Front Row will continue to work then it means I can just stick to re-organising my media folders to better work within iTunes (currently they're all a bit all over the place, but I'll be re-organising as part of my update to Lion anyway).

Otherwise, I don't suppose there are any alternatives that are closer in functionality to Front Row? All I need or want is an easy, lightweight media browser, which Plex is not.

zero-beat
Jul 20, 2011, 06:16 AM
i remember playing with Front Row when I first got my mac, it didnt take long for it to get dull... xD It's a shame they didnt at least try and fix it, somewhat, i liked the idea of the AppleTV like UI on my computer.

Takuro
Jul 20, 2011, 06:28 AM
Someone mentioned that the iTunes update may stop the Front Row "hack" from working? Is that the case?
iTunes 10.5 is pre-release software not available to the general public. It's intended for developers who are testing iOS 5, so unless you are a tester, simply don't download it. Using it will change the structure of "iTunes Library.xml," the file that stores information about your music library. Since Front Row uses this file (rather than scanning for individual MP3s), compatibility is broken and it will report that it found no songs. This will happen even on Front Row running Snow Leopard if iTunes 10.5 is installed, and not a unique problem to this "hack" for Lion. Every other feature of Front Row other than music will work normally.

pacmania1982
Jul 20, 2011, 07:04 AM
http://9to5mac.com/2011/07/19/os-x-lion-kills-front-row-heres-how-to-get-it-back/

I tried the above last night on Lion (GM) and can confirm it works as expected! Good to have FrontRow back :D

pac

haravikk
Jul 20, 2011, 07:09 AM
This will happen even on Front Row running Snow Leopard if iTunes 10.5 is installed, and not a unique problem to this "hack" for Lion. Every other feature of Front Row other than music will work normally.
Hmm, what do you suppose the chances are of Front Row in Snow Leopard being updated to be compatible in a 10.6.9? If it is then it might be easy enough to port that to Lion instead…

Diamondaine
Jul 20, 2011, 07:24 AM
Hmm, what do you suppose the chances are of Front Row in Snow Leopard being updated to be compatible in a 10.6.9? If it is then it might be easy enough to port that to Lion instead…
There won't be an 10.6.9, as there won't be Front Row in Lion when it's released today.
Those who want Front Row, have to do the trick or have to hope, the Apple sometimes releases a better Front Row in the Mac App Store, or just switch to xbmc or sty. like that

Diamondaine :apple:

haravikk
Jul 20, 2011, 07:49 AM
There won't be an 10.6.9, as there won't be Front Row in Lion when it's released today.
Those who want Front Row, have to do the trick or have to hope, the Apple sometimes releases a better Front Row in the Mac App Store, or just switch to xbmc or sty. like that
My point was that if Front Row is going to break with the next iTunes update for all current Snow Leopard users, then since Apple does support its most recent OS version then it seems to me that Front Row may be updated to have iTunes 10.5 compatibility, either as part of a Snow Leopard update (if there are other things still to be done) or an update of its own.

This would mean Lion users could then import that updated version, instead of the current one.

PeterHolbrook
Jul 20, 2011, 08:20 AM
My point was that if Front Row is going to break with the next iTunes update for all current Snow Leopard users, then since Apple does support its most recent OS version then it seems to me that Front Row may be updated to have iTunes 10.5 compatibility, either as part of a Snow Leopard update (if there are other things still to be done) or an update of its own.

As far as I know, Front Row has ALWAYS been incompatible with iTunes BETAS. There doesn't seem to be any valid reason to imagine that it might be incompatible with iTunes 10.5 FINAL when it's released. If such were to be the case, it would be EQUALLY incompatible in Snow Leopard and Lion. A little thinking is useful sometimes.

haravikk
Jul 20, 2011, 09:55 AM
As far as I know, Front Row has ALWAYS been incompatible with iTunes BETAS. There doesn't seem to be any valid reason to imagine that it might be incompatible with iTunes 10.5 FINAL when it's released. If such were to be the case, it would be EQUALLY incompatible in Snow Leopard and Lion. A little thinking is useful sometimes.
I'm well aware that Front Row won't work with betas; I was responding to Takuro's earlier comment that the iTunes library XML file is changing in format, which means that when 10.5 rolls in Front Row won't be able to read the new XML layout at all.

To this I was simply replying that if the iTunes update is going to break Front Row in Snow Leopard, then there may be hope of seeing one last Front Row update on Snow Leopard in order to fix this, in which case copying that version of Front Row should give us a working version in Lion as well, if Apple does fix it of course.

A little reading is useful sometimes, particularly if it avoids you butting into an exchange you don't seem to know enough about and as a result insulting someone without any justification whatsoever =/

PeterHolbrook
Jul 20, 2011, 10:06 AM
I'm well aware that Front Row won't work with betas; I was responding to Takuro's earlier comment that the iTunes library XML file is changing in format, which means that when 10.5 rolls in Front Row won't be able to read the new XML layout at all.

To this I was simply replying that if the iTunes update is going to break Front Row in Snow Leopard, then there may be hope of seeing one last Front Row update on Snow Leopard in order to fix this, in which case copying that version of Front Row should give us a working version in Lion as well, if Apple does fix it of course.

A little reading is useful sometimes, particularly if it avoids you butting into an exchange you don't seem to know enough about and as a result insulting someone without any justification whatsoever =/

Temper, temper. No insult was hurled at you, although you do seem to deserve one. I stand by my words, which need no correction whatever. As for knowledge, let me guess. Were you one of the first in this forum to say Front Row was compatible with Lion? I guess NOT. Gee, you don't seem to know much about ANYTHING, do you?

PS I've just updated to the latest iTunes (10.4). This does indeed break part of the integration with Front Row, which, presumably, won't be restored until (and if) Apple releases a new version of Front Row (for Snow Leopard and/or Lion), or when someone figures out a way (perhaps an alias would do) to make the old Front Row compatible again.

haravikk
Jul 20, 2011, 10:44 AM
Were you one of the first in this forum to say Front Row was compatible with Lion?
And what does that have to do with anything? I could care less if you were a cackling maniac resident within the walls at Apple HQ, and whose sole purpose in existing were to ensure that Front Row never made into Lion in the first place.

Either way it has nothing to do with the fact that you waded into a discussion to make insulting accusations of fault in response to a comment I had made that was not wrong. If you believe Takuro's information is unreliable then say-so, if however you think that what he said may indeed be true, then what you posted was irrelevant as beta version or not, a change in the XML scheme will break Front Row once the final iTunes update is released. My point therefore still stands; if an iTunes update is going to break Front Row in Snow Leopard, then it's only reasonable to surmise that continued support of Snow Leopard may lead Apple to release a minor update to Front Row.

PeterHolbrook
Jul 20, 2011, 10:48 AM
And what does that have to do with anything? I could care less if you were a cackling maniac resident within the walls at Apple HQ, and whose sole purpose in existing were to ensure that Front Row never made into Lion in the first place.

Either way it has nothing to do with the fact that you waded into a discussion to make insulting accusations of fault in response to a comment I had made that was not wrong. If you believe Takuro's information is unreliable then say-so, if however you think that what he said may indeed be true, then what you posted was irrelevant as beta version or not, a change in the XML scheme will break Front Row once the final iTunes update is released. My point therefore still stands; if an iTunes update is going to break Front Row in Snow Leopard, then it's only reasonable to surmise that continued support of Snow Leopard may lead Apple to release a minor update to Front Row.

Unfortunately for you, you read a meaning into my words they didn't contain. Never did I say Apple would or would not issue an update to Front Row. I simply said that whatever incompatibility a final version of iTunes brought to Front Row, it would affect Snow Leopard and Lion equally. Before your latest inflammatory posting, I added a PS to my previous comment about the latest iTunes (10.4), just released.

junkmail
Jul 20, 2011, 10:52 AM
I ran Mac-hatter's program to get front row back in the just released Lion, but none of my files from iTunes is there. I am running iTunes 10.4. Any help would be greatly appreciated. My kids depend on the ease of use of front row to find all their movies.

PeterHolbrook
Jul 20, 2011, 10:58 AM
I ran Mac-hatter's program to get front row back in the just released Lion, but none of my files from iTunes is there. I am running iTunes 10.4. Any help would be greatly appreciated. My kids depend on the ease of use of front row to find all their movies.

Apple announces as much about iTunes 10.4. Plugins no longer work, and I suppose Front Row could be termed partly a type of plugin for iTunes. If you go to your Music/iTunes folder (in ~), you'll see the iTunes Music Library.xml has changed from the format (or, at least, the identification codes of some items) it used to have under previous versions.

AnonMac50
Jul 20, 2011, 11:03 AM
I just released my Front Row enabler today because the NDA was just lifted.

Senseotech
Jul 20, 2011, 11:03 AM
I ran Mac-hatter's program to get front row back in the just released Lion, but none of my files from iTunes is there. I am running iTunes 10.4. Any help would be greatly appreciated. My kids depend on the ease of use of front row to find all their movies.

Despite Peter's grandstanding about how integral Front Row is, and his belittling of anyone who disagrees, I'd suggest looking for an alternative. iTunes 10.4 breaks Front Row, and with Apple's track record, I'd put some money down on saying they won't fix it. I've never used any of the alternatives, but most people seem to like Plex.

PeterHolbrook
Jul 20, 2011, 11:41 AM
I just released my Front Row enabler today because the NDA was just lifted.

Thank you very much for your contribution. I've just tried it. Sadly, it isn't compatible with the new xml structure of the latest iTunes (10.4). Are there any suggestions you can make to achieve full compatibility with the old (10.3.1 and earlier) and the new (10.4 and later) iTunes?

haravikk
Jul 20, 2011, 12:37 PM
Unfortunately for you, you read a meaning into my words they didn't contain.
Since you seem to be absent minded to the point of having forgotten the post that you wrote, perhaps I should remind you:

My point was that if Front Row is going to break with the next iTunes update for all current Snow Leopard users, then since Apple does support its most recent OS version then it seems to me that Front Row may be updated to have iTunes 10.5 compatibility, either as part of a Snow Leopard update (if there are other things still to be done) or an update of its own.
As far as I know, Front Row has ALWAYS been incompatible with iTunes BETAS. There doesn't seem to be any valid reason to imagine that it might be incompatible with iTunes 10.5 FINAL when it's released. If such were to be the case, it would be EQUALLY incompatible in Snow Leopard and Lion. A little thinking is useful sometimes.
So in response to my comment about Apple possibly releasing a further Front Row update, you made a post about something of which I was already well aware, and then finished by implying that I hadn't thought my post through. In one fell swoop answering a question that hadn't been asked, and insultingly implying that I was missing something blindingly obvious, which in fact I hadn't since I was addressing the possibility of Front Row update only.

So either you didn't read my post properly, or you completely declined to read any of the posts it was responding to. Either way, I wasn't commenting on the fact that the beta doesn't work with Front Row, but the fact that it is believed the final version of iTunes 10.4 will not, due to changes in the XML structure, so your post held no meaning as a response, and nor did it justify your ending it in an insult.

PeterHolbrook
Jul 20, 2011, 01:01 PM
Since you seem to be absent minded to the point of having forgotten the post that you wrote, perhaps I should remind you

No need at all. What's written is there for everyone to see. And, unfortunately for you, I needn't recant anything I said. Unfortunately for you, also, you read something into my words that wasn't there. I wasn't "rebuking" you. I merely stated something obvious: If iTunes broke Front Row internal links in Lion, it would do the same in Snow Leopard. Need I recant that? I think not.

AnonMac50
Jul 20, 2011, 04:54 PM
Back in Leopard's time, they released Front Row 2.1.7 that supports iTunes 8.1. I'm guessing that there might be an update for Snow Leopard in the coming days. I don't think they'd leave out Front Row for Snow Leopard, and make it pretty much useless. I'll update my package should Front Row be updated.

AnonMac50

AnonMac50
Jul 20, 2011, 04:58 PM
Wait a second why doesn't somebody just make an Apple TV app for Mac, seriously I'm surprised somebody hasn't done it already, it would basically do everything the new Apple TV has, I mean all it would really have to be is an application, like another HTPC app so its possible, and AirPlay would work thanks to Erica Sadun. Hell Erica Sadun should totally do, we gotta get her to forget working on Banana TV and work on an Apple TV emulator for Mac instead, whose with me?

Didn't ATV4Mac do that? Now we need one for the iOS A4 based ATV.

EDIT: 100th reply!

Mascots
Jul 20, 2011, 08:33 PM
Just my 2-cents on Apple supporting iTunes 10.4 (and 10.5) with Front Row: It's probably not going to happen.

Apple did the same thing with iTunes 7 and Front Row 1.3. Whenever iTunes 7 launched, it broke support for Front Row 1.3 and Apple never applied and update to fix it, leaving Macs running the original Front Row (à la OS X Tiger [which, while it seems old now, at the time was only a generation behind]) broken.

Apple is probably done with Front Row and has reassigned those developers to new projects unrelated to an OS X media framework. Apple never really supports "hobby" projects once they have been depreciated or replaced.

mac-hatter
Jul 20, 2011, 10:28 PM
And to add to this, support is kinda wonky under Snow Leopard and Front Row (sometimes it works, other times it doesn't). Hopefully (as others have pointed out) Apple will be quick to remedy this iTunes/Front Row update for Snow Leopard users. Both AnonMac50 and myself will update apps accordingly.

mac-hatter
Jul 20, 2011, 10:29 PM
Mac-hatter made the front page of 9to5mac for his installer. Pretty cool stuff. Congrats!

http://9to5mac.com/2011/07/19/os-x-lion-kills-front-row-heres-how-to-get-it-back/

Thank you!

PeterHolbrook
Jul 21, 2011, 02:11 AM
I'll update my package should Front Row be updated.

That's great. Thanks.

AnonMac50
Jul 21, 2011, 06:21 AM
Just wondering, what is the iTunes Library version in 10.4?

JPTech
Jul 21, 2011, 06:25 AM
I'll miss it, mostly because I enjoyed watching the movie trailers they provided (I honestly wouldn't have known about half the movies I've seen if it weren't for Front Row!). And yes, I know of Apple's trailer website.

jgallant1990
Jul 21, 2011, 01:52 PM
Here's my two pence ( English :) )

I'm a little annoyed at Apple's lack of FR support for Lion, moreover for the new iTunes, but only a little.

Thanks to the great work of others who have posted above, FR is working near perfectly with Lion, and I really appreciate this.

As others have mentioned, the reason FR is a good app is due to its simplicity.
I use an alias to point FR to my movies folder, and using Perian all of my films and TV shows play - this works in Lion.

The disappointment is that I can't play my music, but that's a minor one as iTunes is fine for that, especially when combined with iPad/iPhone remote etc. In fact scrolling through FR lists for music was a bit of a pain anyway.

My main annoyance is that Apple are supposedly bringing iOS utiities to the Mac to make the OS more user friendly, yet they're sacrificing some of this simplicity by killing FR.

I for one don't have the money to spend on an AppleTV, which would need my media server running anyway due to its lack of hard drive.


I can deal with all of this :)

What I can't deal with is when posters love the sound of their own voice so much that they crowd a thread with useless and insulting posts. Chill out!

Thanks again to the useful posters above, especially for the compiled installer of FR on Lion :D

barnetty
Jul 21, 2011, 02:27 PM
I for one am glad its gone...was a PITA to use my Macbook Pro and my Apple TV while in the same room without my laptop going into FR everytime i hit menu button.

AnonMac50
Jul 21, 2011, 04:41 PM
You know what there should be...

An option for the menu button to open FR.

pcmxa
Jul 23, 2011, 08:30 PM
I for one am glad its gone...was a PITA to use my Macbook Pro and my Apple TV while in the same room without my laptop going into FR everytime i hit menu button.

Unless you use the remote with your MBP, you can go the security settings in system preferences and disable the MBP remote sensor. I don't have an ATV but you can also pair a remote and computer so that they only work together. I know this might not work for you, but thought I would mention it.

gentlefury
Jul 23, 2011, 08:40 PM
Here's hoping. The 15 seconds it takes to load Front Row when I accidentally press cmd-esc are the longest 15 seconds of my day.

YES!!!

I was just saying that to someone today.

The only time I see front row is when I mean to press cmd+opt+esc and don't press opt....It always gets me too...I'm like, wtf, why is it frozen..then it fades to black and I know what I did!

moderngamenewb
Jul 23, 2011, 10:01 PM
YES!!!

I was just saying that to someone today.

The only time I see front row is when I mean to press cmd+opt+esc and don't press opt....It always gets me too...I'm like, wtf, why is it frozen..then it fades to black and I know what I did!

Agreed. It always annoyed me when that happened.

AnonMac50
Jul 29, 2011, 07:01 PM
Is it just me, or does FR on Snow Leopard work with iTunes 10.4?