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mrblack927
Feb 25, 2011, 11:07 AM
Is there any way to arrange spaces in a grid (both vertically and horizontally) in Lion? I LOVED the 2 by 2 square spaces arrangement in SL. I used cmd+arrow to switch between spaces and no space was ever more than a single button away. Now to go from space 1 to space 4 I have to go allll the way to the end. Not to mention all of the "full screen apps" that appear in between 1 and 4.

This basically kills spaces for me.

Also, is there anyway to rearrange the spaces? Like if you have a bunch of "full screen" apps open and you launch mission control, you see them arranges across the top of the screen, in the order they were opened. Can you rearrange them?



Cougarcat
Feb 25, 2011, 01:39 PM
Control-1,2,3,4 (or any key combo you want) will send you to that particular space.

I did like the functionality you're talking about, though.

mrblack927
Feb 25, 2011, 07:09 PM
Thanks, any ideas for rearranging the spaces though? This has been driving me crazy all day. Surely Apple would have included a way to do this. :confused:

celticpride678
Feb 25, 2011, 07:22 PM
Thanks, any ideas for rearranging the spaces though? This has been driving me crazy all day. Surely Apple would have included a way to do this. :confused:

As of right now, I don't see a way to change this. Maybe in a future release, however.

brettryan
Feb 26, 2011, 06:28 AM
As of right now, I don't see a way to change this. Maybe in a future release, however.

I've been really worried about spaces since I saw apple demo lion. I don't have a copy but feared spaces may disappear entirely, I activate spaces through the bottom left corner mouse hot spot and have 3x3 layout, will be sad to see this go.

baryon
Feb 26, 2011, 07:00 AM
I'm with you on this. I hate how Spaces or "Desktops" work in Lion. It's lame, it's pointless, and I loved the way you can use four arrows to navigate non-linearly between spaces in SL and Leopard. Apple should NOT change this, it's perfect. Dammit! I also love Overview mode, when you can just see all your spaces and drag windows from one to the other easily. And you can also do an Exposé in that view, so there is no need for Mission Control, as this allows you to see everything. Also, you can see everything the way it is, all at once, and not by clicking through your stupid Desktops icon by icon.

brettryan
Feb 26, 2011, 07:13 AM
I'm with you on this. I hate how Spaces or "Desktops" work in Lion. It's lame, it's pointless, and I loved the way you can use four arrows to navigate non-linearly between spaces in SL and Leopard. Apple should NOT change this, it's perfect. Dammit! I also love Overview mode, when you can just see all your spaces and drag windows from one to the other easily. And you can also do an Exposé in that view, so there is no need for Mission Control, as this allows you to see everything. Also, you can see everything the way it is, all at once, and not by clicking through your stupid Desktops icon by icon.

Yep, forgot about the DnD ability, this is now gone? So freaking disappointed. I've always rushed for the newest OSX release, somehow I think I won't be rushing so fast for this one.

Apart from a single bug that annoys me in the current Spaces, I love it. That bug is where if you CMD+TAB to an app in another space, it somehow (sometimes) makes the focussed window in the background.

baryon
Feb 26, 2011, 07:20 AM
Why make the computer more and more linear? I have a keyboard with 4 arrow keys on it! Why not make use of that? Why not make the entire OS a single, scrollable screen, with System Preferences somewhere on page 234, the Dock on page 1, the Finder on page 8, etc... Then all you would have to do is SCROLL your way through your computer.

Reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8gF0KTfMrQ

Haha... The irony.

mrblack927
Feb 27, 2011, 08:15 AM
Fully agree. The Spaces issue has gone from a minor annoyance to really bothering me now. Lion looks like a really solid update and has a lot of little tweaks that make things better, but this one glaring step backwards is making me not want to upgrade at all. Now I'm conflicted. Spaces (SL style) is integral to how I get work done every single day. Sigh...:(

At first I thought I could get used to it, I convinced myself that it was still the same concept, just linear. Unfortunately the more I use it the more I find other things were taken out. For example, to move a window to a different space quickly, you could just grab it (like you're going to move it), and cmd-arrow over to the space you want. The space would move in the background and the window would come with you. This feature is now gone. The "expose view" as others have pointed out, exists in "mission control" form, but is functionally useless. Full screen apps get their own "space" which does nothing but get in the way and make it harder to reach your real spaces. When running two (or more) monitors, switching spaces clears the screen, then puts your windows back. It's getting to be more and more disheartening.

I realize that any number of these could be changed/fixed before the final version of Lion, but some inevitably won't. Really, do you expect them to bring back the grid-view (not just horizontal)? It won't fit in mission control, therefore it won't be changed. Apple is stubborn that way when they think they have a good idea. The best I'm hoping for is a 3rd party hack that lets you restore SL-style expose and spaces. I guess we'll see.

RRRize
May 13, 2011, 07:40 PM
I'm surprised this thread didn't pick up more traction. The last post was almost 3 months back. Yikes!! I wonder if that is indicative of people's acceptance of the new Spaces in Lion?? I have been using the Developer's release 2 of Lion and I have to say, the only thing I MUST give thumbs-down to is the new Spaces.

There's no ability to configure a grid of horizontal and vertical spaces. It is JUST horizontal spaces. This altogether ruins the whole Spaces experience for me. I really don't see the point to downgrading the functionality of what is one highly versatile and most functional and amazing feature of OS X. I get that Apple wants to unify the iOS/OS X experience, but to what end?? Why sacrifice the versatility of the desktop experience in order to match the limited ability of the iPad/iPhone??? Lion's Spaces is absolutely a downgrade of Snow Leopard's Spaces as stands right now in the Developer's preview. I truly hope they fix this before production because the way I see it, it is broken in Lion.

At best, perhaps they will introduce Snow Leopard-like grid Spaces to iOS and then bring it back to OS X. ...sigh. How backward : (

My 2 cent. }: |

Thunderbird
May 13, 2011, 11:32 PM
So, there is no way to expose all your spaces (i.e. overview) with all open apps and windows in Lion?

brettryan
May 14, 2011, 12:23 AM
I'm surprised this thread didn't pick up more traction. The last post was almost 3 months back. Yikes!! I wonder if that is indicative of people's acceptance of the new Spaces in Lion?? I have been using the Developer's release 2 of Lion and I have to say, the only thing I MUST give thumbs-down to is the new Spaces.

There's no ability to configure a grid of horizontal and vertical spaces. It is JUST horizontal spaces. This altogether ruins the whole Spaces experience for me. I really don't see the point to downgrading the functionality of what is one highly versatile and most functional and amazing feature of OS X. I get that Apple wants to unify the iOS/OS X experience, but to what end?? Why sacrifice the versatility of the desktop experience in order to match the limited ability of the iPad/iPhone??? Lion's Spaces is absolutely a downgrade of Snow Leopard's Spaces as stands right now in the Developer's preview. I truly hope they fix this before production because the way I see it, it is broken in Lion.

At best, perhaps they will introduce Snow Leopard-like grid Spaces to iOS and then bring it back to OS X. ...sigh. How backward : (

My 2 cent. }: |

Hear, hear!

Supa_Fly
May 14, 2011, 12:42 AM
I'm surprised this thread didn't pick up more traction. The last post was almost 3 months back. Yikes!! I wonder if that is indicative of people's acceptance of the new Spaces in Lion?? I have been using the Developer's release 2 of Lion and I have to say, the only thing I MUST give thumbs-down to is the new Spaces.

There's no ability to configure a grid of horizontal and vertical spaces. It is JUST horizontal spaces. This altogether ruins the whole Spaces experience for me. I really don't see the point to downgrading the functionality of what is one highly versatile and most functional and amazing feature of OS X. I get that Apple wants to unify the iOS/OS X experience, but to what end?? Why sacrifice the versatility of the desktop experience in order to match the limited ability of the iPad/iPhone??? Lion's Spaces is absolutely a downgrade of Snow Leopard's Spaces as stands right now in the Developer's preview. I truly hope they fix this before production because the way I see it, it is broken in Lion.

At best, perhaps they will introduce Snow Leopard-like grid Spaces to iOS and then bring it back to OS X. ...sigh. How backward : (

My 2 cent. }: |

BRAVO!!! This whole "bring the limited smartphone experience" to the desktop is a HUGE leap BACKWARDS!!

Synaesthesia242
May 14, 2011, 01:38 AM
I much prefer it, but maybe that's because I have a Magic Trackpad. You can now switch between Spaces with a 3 or 4 finger swipe. It works brilliantly - so much better than before.

macrem
May 14, 2011, 02:38 AM
[...]Unfortunately the more I use it the more I find other things were taken out.[...]
I'm also missing the ability to put an app in all spaces (or perhaps I am overlooking something). On SL I use this feature so the iTunes mini player follows me around.

dethmaShine
May 14, 2011, 02:58 AM
I'm with you on this. I hate how Spaces or "Desktops" work in Lion. It's lame, it's pointless, and I loved the way you can use four arrows to navigate non-linearly between spaces in SL and Leopard. Apple should NOT change this, it's perfect. Dammit! I also love Overview mode, when you can just see all your spaces and drag windows from one to the other easily. And you can also do an Exposé in that view, so there is no need for Mission Control, as this allows you to see everything. Also, you can see everything the way it is, all at once, and not by clicking through your stupid Desktops icon by icon.

lol

We both know how much this thing sucks. :D

GoKyu
May 14, 2011, 05:35 AM
i could seriously quote almost every post in this thread and add a +1 behind it...

Apple has seriously dropped the ball with Spaces, and taken it from a really productive feature in Leopard and Snow Leopard, to nearly worthless in Lion.

Didn't they learn *anything* about the difference between cassette tapes and CDs? Why would you ever want to go from random-access to sequential access, especially if you have 9 or more spaces...oh right, only "Pros" would have anything close to that many, and we know what Apple must think of their pro customers...

It's true, they're taking the sequential nature of iOS's page format, and saying that's the way it should be for virtual desktops. But while with iOS, you can swipe to a Spotlight search, you can technically do the same in OS X, but then you lose the point of virtual desktops to begin with...

Already pretty much decided not to upgrade immediately - I hope the guys who wrote Hyperspaces might consider making it a full virtual desktop replacement for Spaces.

dethmaShine
May 14, 2011, 05:49 AM
i could seriously quote almost every post in this thread and add a +1 behind it...

Apple has seriously dropped the ball with Spaces, and taken it from a really productive feature in Leopard and Snow Leopard, to nearly worthless in Lion.

Didn't they learn *anything* about the difference between cassette tapes and CDs? Why would you ever want to go from random-access to sequential access, especially if you have 9 or more spaces...oh right, only "Pros" would have anything close to that many, and we know what Apple must think of their pro customers...

It's true, they're taking the sequential nature of iOS's page format, and saying that's the way it should be for virtual desktops. But while with iOS, you can swipe to a Spotlight search, you can technically do the same in OS X, but then you lose the point of virtual desktops to begin with...

Already pretty much decided not to upgrade immediately - I hope the guys who wrote Hyperspaces might consider making it a full virtual desktop replacement for Spaces.

Spaces is one big thing Apple is messing up.

I mean, spaces is such a big utility for some of us; its just unbearable.
I might skip the whole of Lion just because this thing won't work for me.

Lion is such a great release. Seems to be much more like Leopard feature wise but they should just give an option to disable Mission Control.

PBF
May 14, 2011, 01:01 PM
I'm also missing the ability to put an app in all spaces (or perhaps I am overlooking something). On SL I use this feature so the iTunes mini player follows me around.
How-to: right-click on iTunes icon in the dock, select Options, then Assign To All Desktops. Voilà!

macrem
May 14, 2011, 01:20 PM
How-to: right-click on iTunes icon in the dock, select Options, then Assign To All Desktops. Voilà!
Cool, thank you! :)

RRRize
May 14, 2011, 02:29 PM
I much prefer it, but maybe that's because I have a Magic Trackpad. You can now switch between Spaces with a 3 or 4 finger swipe. It works brilliantly - so much better than before.

This does not speak to the issue ay hand though. You prefer a downgraded feature because you can control it by swiping? That is very much like saying you'd prefer a Ford Fiesta over a Ferrari F430 because the Fiesta has leather seats and the Ferrari has cloth.

I have a Magic Trackpad too and I can do precisely what you are speaking of in Snow Leopard's Spaces using MagicPrefs (http://magicprefs.com). The thing that blows what you're saying way out of the water is, with Snow Leopard Spaces I can 3 finger swipe left, right, up AND down through all my spaces!! And let me tell you, it ROCKS!! In Lion, you will be limited to left and right ONLY.

Enjoy your Fiesta bud. If Lion ships with the downgraded Spaces, I will remain in Snow Leopard until some app that I absolutely need (like Aperture) has the minimum requirement of Lion. Till then, I will remain in the Ferrari... because I prefer better over lame.

mrblack927
May 14, 2011, 05:29 PM
Sigh... Well Spaces-Fans, this looks like the end of the road. Behold, in DP3, the system prefs pane which used to say "Exposé and Spaces" now says "Mission Control":
http://i.imgur.com/q6AxU.png

And the spaces tab is completely gone:

(before)
http://i.imgur.com/e5Vpg.png

(after)
http://i.imgur.com/fJ2S2.png

The only remaining feature of spaces is the ability to set an application to a particular space (desktop), now moved to the dock icon context menu:
http://i.imgur.com/qRViA.png

And that's it folks, once they make a "mission control" icon to replace the spaces icon for the system prefs menu, there will be nothing left. While I and many others had hoped that new Lion builds would start to bring spaces back to it's former glory, this most recent build shows that they are going completely in the other direction. By the time Lion comes out, there will likely be nothing left. :(

RRRize
May 14, 2011, 06:05 PM
Sigh... Well Spaces-Fans, this looks like the end of the road. Behold, in DP3, the system prefs pane which used to say "Exposé and Spaces" now says "Mission Control"


Strange because I'm running DP3 as well but it still says "Expose & Spaces" for me. However, the rest of what you see, I see too (see my attached screenshots).

I have to say, this is truly disappointing. All of this effort to make the more potent desktop behave like the less powerful iPad/iPhone is pure rubbish as far as I'm concerned! It's clearly not power-user focused. But even more, especially in the case of Spaces, it's limiting the power and versatility of the desktop for the goal of making the desktop look more like a damn iPad. Bloody annoying stuff is this! Honestly, if they MUST make iOS and OS X more closely resemble one another, then do that, but WHY cancel great features and functionality? Why can't the desktop (OS X) keep all of it's power and functionality and in addition to what it's got, add the look and feel of the iPad... if you must. I'm bloody annoyed!

GoKyu
May 14, 2011, 11:46 PM
And that's it folks, once they make a "mission control" icon to replace the spaces icon for the system prefs menu, there will be nothing left. While I and many others had hoped that new Lion builds would start to bring spaces back to it's former glory, this most recent build shows that they are going completely in the other direction. By the time Lion comes out, there will likely be nothing left. :(

WEAK.

Anyone know of a virtual desktop program available on OS X *other* than Spaces?

I might have to dig into the UNIX roots and change my window manager to LiteStep ;)

Jolly Jimmy
May 15, 2011, 05:52 AM
This is bad news, I rely heavily on spaces. Yet another reason not to upgrade.

Varigon
May 15, 2011, 11:52 AM
I prefer Mission control over spaces/expose and i used them all the time in Snow Leopard.

baryon
May 15, 2011, 12:17 PM
Now that there is a "Automatically Rearrange Spaces" option that you can disable, I think it's much better. We are only losing the grid arrangement like this, and everything else is probably okay. I'll see how annoying it is to flip though 10 spaces all the time though, I'm not sure I'll like that!

ztrafe
May 15, 2011, 12:36 PM
Just click on the app dock icon? :rolleyes:

baryon
May 15, 2011, 01:11 PM
Just click on the app dock icon? :rolleyes:

Yeah but that won't work for apps that have more than one window on more than one space, it also won't work for apps that have no window open (Photoshop often), and it won't work if you just want to go to a space with nothing on it and open an app on there afterwards.

Thunderbird
May 15, 2011, 03:58 PM
Now that there is a "Automatically Rearrange Spaces" option that you can disable, I think it's much better. We are only losing the grid arrangement like this, and everything else is probably okay. I'll see how annoying it is to flip though 10 spaces all the time though, I'm not sure I'll like that!

That makes me feel much better.

What happens if you have more than 6 or 7 spaces, how are they arranged in Mission Control? Still horizontally?

bedifferent
May 15, 2011, 07:58 PM
That makes me feel much better.

What happens if you have more than 6 or 7 spaces, how are they arranged in Mission Control? Still horizontally?

Yup, unfortunately. 2D desktops are better for single, small display multi-touch devices. Using a Pro-system with more than one display and running Final Cut/Photoshop/Aperture in their own "space", err, desktop, adds unnecessary steps. There should be an option, allowing a 3D or 2D GUI for spaces.

dethmaShine
May 16, 2011, 03:55 AM
Sigh... Well Spaces-Fans, this looks like the end of the road. Behold, in DP3, the system prefs pane which used to say "Exposé and Spaces" now says "Mission Control":
Image (http://i.imgur.com/q6AxU.png)

And the spaces tab is completely gone:

(before)
http://i.imgur.com/e5Vpg.png

(after)
http://i.imgur.com/fJ2S2.png

The only remaining feature of spaces is the ability to set an application to a particular space (desktop), now moved to the dock icon context menu:
http://i.imgur.com/qRViA.png

And that's it folks, once they make a "mission control" icon to replace the spaces icon for the system prefs menu, there will be nothing left. While I and many others had hoped that new Lion builds would start to bring spaces back to it's former glory, this most recent build shows that they are going completely in the other direction. By the time Lion comes out, there will likely be nothing left. :(

Hey, I am 100% sure, its a bug. I have tried to mess up with the defaults and everything, but I couldn't get it to show the SpacesTab. I am more than sure, its coming in the next Preview, which in my opinion will be released in the next couple of weeks.

dethmaShine
May 16, 2011, 03:56 AM
Just click on the app dock icon? :rolleyes:

I wish I could throw the mouse away and just use the keyboard.

Seriously, if you are a developer, you shouldn't know what a mouse is OR that it exists. Keyboard is the way to go.

ztrafe
May 16, 2011, 04:26 AM
I wish I could throw the mouse away and just use the keyboard.

Seriously, if you are a developer, you shouldn't know what a mouse is OR that it exists. Keyboard is the way to go.

I use CMD + tab but sometimes i have to use CMD+Arrow when an app window is not opened... I hope Lion adress this issue.

dethmaShine
May 16, 2011, 05:56 AM
I use CMD + tab but sometimes i have to use CMD+Arrow when an app window is not opened... I hope Lion adress this issue.

I am sorry. What's the issue?

rebby
May 16, 2011, 09:50 AM
Sigh... Well Spaces-Fans, this looks like the end of the road. Behold, in DP3, the system prefs pane which used to say "Exposé and Spaces" now says "Mission Control":
Image (http://i.imgur.com/q6AxU.png)

And the spaces tab is completely gone:

(before)
http://i.imgur.com/e5Vpg.png

(after)
http://i.imgur.com/fJ2S2.png

The only remaining feature of spaces is the ability to set an application to a particular space (desktop), now moved to the dock icon context menu:
http://i.imgur.com/qRViA.png

And that's it folks, once they make a "mission control" icon to replace the spaces icon for the system prefs menu, there will be nothing left. While I and many others had hoped that new Lion builds would start to bring spaces back to it's former glory, this most recent build shows that they are going completely in the other direction. By the time Lion comes out, there will likely be nothing left. :(

Whoa, that's not good. Based on what I'd seen of MC earlier, I expected Spaces to become a more integrated part of OS. Perhaps, in a way, it has been? More abstracted from the user perhaps? I need to get a copy of Lion to play with...

zorinlynx
May 17, 2011, 12:00 AM
Jeez, every time I come to this forum to catch up on the latest Lion news I come away disappointed. Is it really downhill from here?

Doesn't Apple realize that computers and iPads are fundamentally different and used in very different ways?

EEXOOO
May 17, 2011, 03:03 AM
What!? Spaces is gone? One of the many draws of OSX is Spaces.

RRRize
May 23, 2011, 09:00 PM
What!? Spaces is gone? One of the many draws of OSX is Spaces.

No, it's not gone in Lion. It's just drastically devolved.

BLACKFRIDAY
May 24, 2011, 04:21 AM
Jeez, every time I come to this forum to catch up on the latest Lion news I come away disappointed. Is it really downhill from here?

Doesn't Apple realize that computers and iPads are fundamentally different and used in very different ways?

I think, Lion is worth it except for Spaces.

Don't give Apple a hard time. They are doing some great things with Lion but yes, they are messing up with Spaces and Expose.

So one must wait for at least a beta version to count on anything materialistic. Maybe they will come up with an option or something different.

RRRize
May 24, 2011, 11:14 AM
I think, Lion is worth it except for Spaces.

Don't give Apple a hard time. They are doing some great things with Lion but yes, they are messing up with Spaces and Expose.

So one must wait for at least a beta version to count on anything materialistic. Maybe they will come up with an option or something different.

The "beta" is already out and we have been testing it (Dev Preview 3). I personally HATE the new devolved version of Spaces in Lion. I cannot say I love much else in Lion, but it certainly is not at all terrible. Fact is, for the most part Lion is not a drastic change from Snow Leopard. There are quite a few visual changes mostly with the intention of making Lion merge with iOS. I personally think making the more versatile OS X resemble the functionality of the less versatile iOS (made for phones and tablets) is ass-backward. But that being said, much of what I've seen in the Dev Preview of Lion is not terrible ONLY BECAUSE the versatility is still absolutely there. The things I abhor though have everything to do with the melding OSX/iOS process... like Space and the FULL SCREEN APPS which totally kills your second monitor if you have one. Having full screen apps is totally NECESSARY on an iPad and iPhone since the screens are so limited and small. But if I want my app to be full screen on my desktop computer, why the heck would I want to render my second monitor useless when I put the app in full screen mode??? All I have to say about Lion's adoption of that is, I'm glad full screen apps (the iOS way) is not FORCED in Lion. You have to envoke it - which I will likely never do.

Rant completed till someone other button is pushed and my rage is triggered! }: |

baryon
May 24, 2011, 11:51 AM
Are you guys reporting these to Apple? They don't just want to hear about bugs but anything that hinders your workflow, even something like Mission Control. I think that if enough people to complain, they might do something. I know Apple has their own way of doing things, saying that you don't know what's good for you, but if after months of using Lion you still don't like Mission Control (or anything else), that probably means you'll never like it, so they got that wrong.

They did listen to people who wanted an Apple TV that doesn't sync to the computer, also when people wanted the buttons back on the iPod Shuffle, for example. Maybe they might listen this time too.

It's clear that Mission Control exists because of Full Screen. Full Screen Apps need to have their own Space, which would result in an uneven number of spaces from time to time, also a dynamically changing number and arrangement of spaces. This makes the old grid layout not work. The only solution to Full Screen apps having their own space is having a linear arrangement of spaces. But what if you prefer grid spaces over Full Screen apps? Maybe Apple could allow us to choose...

Maybe just a checkmark "Enable Mission Control" would solve everyone's problems, and unchecking that would cause Full Screen Apps to behave just like any window that takes up most of the screen.

Thunderbird
May 24, 2011, 05:31 PM
I can see why full screen apps would fill up one Space. But why would full screen apps necessarily entail a linear, non-grid overview layout ?

Cougarcat
May 24, 2011, 05:46 PM
I can see why full screen apps would fill up one Space. But why would full screen apps necessarily entail a linear, non-grid overview layout ?

I expect they went linear for several reasons: 1) gesture controls. It's easy to swipe back and forth. Grid gesture controls would be awkward or impossible to implement 2) Compatibility with the new mission control view. There's simply no space to include a grid. (And, as baryon has already mentioned, compatibility with fullscreen mode.)

baryon
May 24, 2011, 07:02 PM
I think Mission Control should be like this:

286761

It combines full screen apps, Spaces and Exposé at the same time. It's exactly what you get today when you go into spaces overview mode, and hit Exposé. You get a view of all your spaces and all the windows in each space. It's perfect.

The problem is that using full screen apps in their own space doesn't necessarily result in an even number of spaces, which leads to this:

286760

Which leads to you not being able to go "up" when you're at the last space, as there is nothing above it. This would lead to inconsistencies, confusion and frustration, and it's not elegant.

Also, it's easy to understand that when you open a full screen app, it opens in the space to the right of the current one. However, in a grid, what if you're on the rightmost space already in the above drawing, and THEN you open yet another full screen app? You get another space to the right of that one, like this:

286764

So I think that linear spaces are the only solution.

However, why not just ditch full screen apps altogether, and use grid spaces?? That would have so much more advantages than just full screen apps, together with the need of linear spaces...

fattire357
May 25, 2011, 12:06 AM
I much prefer it, but maybe that's because I have a Magic Trackpad. You can now switch between Spaces with a 3 or 4 finger swipe. It works brilliantly - so much better than before.

I do like being able to switch spaces with the trackpad - and hope they keep that feature.


nonetheless, going from spaces #1 to #4 is just a blurry experience... slightly nauseating... i'm not a fan of the new linear layout.

they should do 4-finger swipe up, left or right is spaces

3-finger is expose / dashboard

Cougarcat
May 25, 2011, 12:36 AM
nonetheless, going from spaces #1 to #4 is just a blurry experience... slightly nauseating... i'm not a fan of the new linear layout.


You can press ctrl-number to go directly to a particular space...at least you could in the initial Lion preview, not sure if they changed it.

Jolly Jimmy
May 25, 2011, 06:12 AM
You can press ctrl-number to go directly to a particular space...at least you could in the initial Lion preview, not sure if they changed it.

As long as this is still possible I don't care what it looks like. This is the only way I use spaces currently on 10.6. (except I use cmd)

HeathC
May 29, 2011, 07:22 AM
I thought I was alone in thinking the new Mission Control spaces layout sucks! I really hope the grid layout functionality makes it back in some fashion... when you have 15 desktops, the new horizontal layout really stinks.

alerus
May 29, 2011, 12:16 PM
Are you guys reporting these to Apple? They don't just want to hear about bugs but anything that hinders your workflow, even something like Mission Control. I think that if enough people to complain, they might do something. I know Apple has their own way of doing things, saying that you don't know what's good for you, but if after months of using Lion you still don't like Mission Control (or anything else), that probably means you'll never like it, so they got that wrong.

They did listen to people who wanted an Apple TV that doesn't sync to the computer, also when people wanted the buttons back on the iPod Shuffle, for example. Maybe they might listen this time too.

It's clear that Mission Control exists because of Full Screen. Full Screen Apps need to have their own Space, which would result in an uneven number of spaces from time to time, also a dynamically changing number and arrangement of spaces. This makes the old grid layout not work. The only solution to Full Screen apps having their own space is having a linear arrangement of spaces. But what if you prefer grid spaces over Full Screen apps? Maybe Apple could allow us to choose...

Maybe just a checkmark "Enable Mission Control" would solve everyone's problems, and unchecking that would cause Full Screen Apps to behave just like any window that takes up most of the screen.


It seems to me that the solution should be to just make Mission Control an optional and additional feature. Leave the old spaces and expose intact. As for grid view in spaces, this should be no problem. Spaces are still numbered in grid view and so the linear translation in Mission Control would just follow that.

It's the fact that Apple is forcing this on us that is mind boggling. I know a lot of people rant about Spaces, but I'm more astonished with how bad Mission Control messed up all-window expose. The entire point of pressing the expose button as it stands is to "un-layer" and tile your windows. Now, however, if you have two windows of the same application open (in addition to others) pressing the Mission Control button will actually force layer the windows of the same app together! Mission Control actually does the exact opposite of the solution expose provided and yet it's a "replacement" for expose! Madness...

sicn
Jun 7, 2011, 02:48 PM
Still gone in Developer Preview 4.... :(

And on another note: They removed tap & hold too :(

wikus
Jun 7, 2011, 02:53 PM
Does OS X Lion allow disabling of Dashboard (completely)? I always use the terminal command:

Quote:
defaults write com.apple.dashboard mcx-disabled -boolean YES
If disabled, does mission control still display the dashboard screen? If not, how is expose displayed within ONE single space (I dont use spaces). Does it still display the top bar with thumbnailed screens?

I like expose the way it is; unobstructed displaying open windows using the entire screen via top right corner hot spot. I don't want to see dashboard or other spaces thumbnails.

alball
Jun 8, 2011, 02:46 PM
Hey, I am 100% sure, its a bug. I have tried to mess up with the defaults and everything, but I couldn't get it to show the SpacesTab. I am more than sure, its coming in the next Preview, which in my opinion will be released in the next couple of weeks.

So I found where spaces have gone... If you use the help it goes to mission control with the missing tab. Though if you activate Mission Control (3/4 finger swipe on the magic pad) then drag the item to the upper right or left there will be a shadow box with an arrow that will create the space..

I still cannot find the arrangement though.. grr...

BlackMangoTree
Jun 8, 2011, 03:25 PM
This and "All Application Windows" has been removed makes mission control a huge step backwards imo

Firen
Jun 8, 2011, 05:26 PM
Doesn't this work for you guys like this as well? Isn't it basically the same?

http://f.cl.ly/items/2k2g0A2T2w2Y2Q0G0V3D/Bildschirmfoto%202011-06-09%20um%2000.23.40.png

baryon
Jun 8, 2011, 06:24 PM
The Spaces tab is gone as it was just the remains of the old Spaces tab from Snow Leopard. The new Mission Control doesn't allow you to use a grid, so all you can do is create/delete spaces, therefore it doesn't require its own tab. Instead, they put a "+" button in Mission Control at the top right and you can add and remove, and reorder spaces right from Mission Control. I think that makes more sense than having to go to System Prefs and have to set it there all the time.

alball
Jun 9, 2011, 02:07 PM
Doesn't this work for you guys like this as well? Isn't it basically the same?

Image (http://f.cl.ly/items/2k2g0A2T2w2Y2Q0G0V3D/Bildschirmfoto%202011-06-09%20um%2000.23.40.png)

Yes it is the same, but.... the "Switch to Space #" does not show up until the process I mentioned previously has been executed.

*Note- my install was fresh and not an upgrade. This included the barrage of 3 updates that took place.

xgman
Jun 9, 2011, 02:45 PM
I hope the guys who wrote Hyperspaces might consider making it a full virtual desktop replacement for Spaces.

They have just tweeted that they can and will not continue hyperspaces when Lion is released. It is not going to be compatible. :(

phpmaven
Jun 9, 2011, 03:09 PM
Doesn't this work for you guys like this as well? Isn't it basically the same?

Image (http://f.cl.ly/items/2k2g0A2T2w2Y2Q0G0V3D/Bildschirmfoto%202011-06-09%20um%2000.23.40.png)

How did you get that settings window? I've never seen one like that before.

mrapplegate
Jun 9, 2011, 03:14 PM
How did you get that settings window? I've never seen one like that before.

System Preferences, Keyboard -> Keyboard Shortcuts. Choose Mission Control on the left.

gumblecosby
Jun 10, 2011, 03:51 AM
I would not hold your breath for apple to change spaces back. Had the same problem with the new version expose on 10.6. Useless compared to 10.5 for me.

If you can find an old build of Lion without mission control (if it exists) you could swap Dock.app into the current version of Lion and regain spaces.

GoKyu
Jun 10, 2011, 11:33 AM
They have just tweeted that they can and will not continue hyperspaces when Lion is released. It is not going to be compatible. :(

I understand that they can't continue it, since it's not a full virtual desktop - it just works with Spaces. I was hoping they might step up and write a full virtual desktop replacement, but I guess not :(

Anyone who's running Lion dev: Can you get to Mission Control with a function key? If so, I might still be able to use it somewhat the same as I have it now...just without true "random access" to all 9 spaces I use currently.

petvas
Jun 10, 2011, 11:40 AM
I understand that they can't continue it, since it's not a full virtual desktop - it just works with Spaces. I was hoping they might step up and write a full virtual desktop replacement, but I guess not :(

Anyone who's running Lion dev: Can you get to Mission Control with a function key? If so, I might still be able to use it somewhat the same as I have it now...just without true "random access" to all 9 spaces I use currently.

Yes, you can use F3 by default but you can also assign another one.

GoKyu
Jun 10, 2011, 05:37 PM
Yes, you can use F3 by default but you can also assign another one.

Danke sehr :)

I'm suddenly not so opposed to getting Lion on day 1. I still hate that they destroyed the current functionality of Spaces, but I really like a lot of features in Lion...

phpmaven
Jun 10, 2011, 05:45 PM
System Preferences, Keyboard -> Keyboard Shortcuts. Choose Mission Control on the left.

Ahhhh! I guess I should have done some German translating. :D

Danke schon!

mrapplegate
Jun 10, 2011, 05:52 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

System Preferences, Keyboard -> Keyboard Shortcuts. Choose Mission Control on the left.

Ahhhh! I guess I should have done some German translating. :D

Danke schon!

Welcome. I just happened to recognize it :)

ixthy
Jun 11, 2011, 06:41 AM
I totally agree with you guys! Expose and Spaces must maintain all of their previous functionality. I also like Mission Control, because it's more app focused, so it's a whole new way of thinking and organizing your workflow. I just wonder... can't Apple give us both?

I also noticed that there is a spaces.app and an expose.app in SL. Can't we use these apps in Lion? Actually I'm gonna find it out...:)

Is there an old preview of Lion that has a fully functional spaces - expose?

klaxamazoo
Jun 11, 2011, 07:18 AM
There are a lot of really great features in 10.7 but I don't like the work flow of Mission Control as compared to 10.5 Expose/Spaces.

Isn't there a way for a developer to create their own version of Spaces and Expose? They have Expose clones for Windows and Linux, why not make an Expose clone for OSX and provide a 10.5 Expose and Spaces experience for 10.7?

I would probably pay ~ $30 to be able to take full advantage of Lion and still retain 10.5 Expose. I'm sure others would too.

kevin2i
Jun 11, 2011, 09:04 AM
Good news - Dragging a window into another space still works. Still requires two hands - a click/hold on the window task bar, and a keyboard space switch. A post a few pages back stated that was not possible with dp3, however it works in dp4.

(Easiest if Control+Arrow is set to change space).

You can also drag/drop windows from mission control (f8 or f1)

I had to actually open this up before it worked (although settings were correct)
Just like firen's post - but in English :
http://i55.tinypic.com/sex7w6.png

*LTD*
Jun 11, 2011, 09:17 AM
Question:

I've figured out how to assign applications to their own specific space (and make them stick after logout/restart.) Just go to the Dock, right click on application, options, then assign to a space. Good.

However, whenever I enter full-screen view (say, in Safari) it moves the window out to the side in its own box and does not keep it in the assigned space. What's up with that? Anyone else experience this? It's pretty frustrating. I want the app I assign to a space to keep all its functions and open Windows and all that stuff in its assigned space - whether normal size or full-screen. That's kinda the whole point of being able to assign a space to an app.

Note that if I do expose on the space, it will show me both the normal view Window and the full-screen view Windows. Good. But if I select the full-screen view Window it takes me to its own self-created space off to the side. Bad.

Any ideas?

eastwater
Jun 11, 2011, 09:55 AM
Still gone in Developer Preview 4.... :(

And on another note: They removed tap & hold too :(

You can restore tap-to-click drag lock under Universal Access> Mouse & Trackpad> Trackpad Options.

*LTD*
Jun 11, 2011, 10:12 AM
Ok I think I've figured it out.

I'm using it wrong. I'm still thinking in terms of how things worked in SL.

According to this video here . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG9l1l2cZ-E&feature=related

There's really no need to assign apps to a space. In fact, doing so seems to defeat the purpose of Mission Control. Mission Control already groups all of your windows together, and these groups are separated by app. So in effect, each app does have its own space in Mission Control, but when you're not in Mission Control it's all jumbled in one Window. I'm not sure if I like this behaviour. However, if I want to focus on an app I can go full-screen with it and it'll set it off to the side, sort of in a "focus area." Now *that* I can understand.

Of course, if you go full screen with multiple windows of the same app, these windows will be shown separately in this "focus area."

In light of all this I'm not sure what the point is of assigning anything to its own desktop. Unless you are on that app's assigned desktop, Mission Control won't expose any of it in the usual manner.

Do note that in terms of focus, if you have multiple windows open for the same app and you do an expose, then all you'll get is an expose of just those windows. That's a nice touch.

No wonder Apple made it a little more difficult to assign apps to desktops. It seems Apple is encouraging users to do everything on the same desktop and allow Mission Control to handle the grouping/organizing when you need it. And if you need to focus on something without any app jumble peeking out behind it, then go full screen and you can access that window on the side.

If you want to maintain focus on a particular app window - you're working on a paper, etc. - and you don't want to go full-screen and refer to the "focus area", then you can simply enlarge the window. You can do it the Apple way (I admit, not the greatest in this case) or use a utility like Right Zoom: http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/30591/right-zoom

So . . . unless you work with an app for which you open a lot of windows (i.e., multiple Pages documents at a time, multiple Safari windows, etc.) then it isn't really worth it to use multiple desktops.

So I kind of get it now. I'll use it the "intended" way for a while and see how things pan out.

baryon
Jun 11, 2011, 12:19 PM
Ok I think I've figured it out.

I'm using it wrong. I'm still thinking in terms of how things worked in SL.

According to this video here . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG9l1l2cZ-E&feature=related

There's really no need to assign apps to a space. In fact, doing so seems to defeat the purpose of Mission Control. Mission Control already groups all of your windows together, and these groups are separated by app. So in effect, each app does have its own space in Mission Control, but when you're not in Mission Control it's all jumbled in one Window. I'm not sure if I like this behaviour. However, if I want to focus on an app I can go full-screen with it and it'll set it off to the side, sort of in a "focus area." Now *that* I can understand.

Of course, if you go full screen with multiple windows of the same app, these windows will be shown separately in this "focus area."

In light of all this I'm not sure what the point is of assigning anything to its own desktop. Unless you are on that app's assigned desktop, Mission Control won't expose any of it in the usual manner.

Do note that in terms of focus, if you have multiple windows open for the same app and you do an expose, then all you'll get is an expose of just those windows. That's a nice touch.

No wonder Apple made it a little more difficult to assign apps to desktops. It seems Apple is encouraging users to do everything on the same desktop and allow Mission Control to handle the grouping/organizing when you need it. And if you need to focus on something without any app jumble peeking out behind it, then go full screen and you can access that window on the side.

If you want to maintain focus on a particular app window - you're working on a paper, etc. - and you don't want to go full-screen and refer to the "focus area", then you can simply enlarge the window. You can do it the Apple way (I admit, not the greatest in this case) or use a utility like Right Zoom: http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/30591/right-zoom

So . . . unless you work with an app for which you open a lot of windows (i.e., multiple Pages documents at a time, multiple Safari windows, etc.) then it isn't really worth it to use multiple desktops.

So I kind of get it now. I'll use it the "intended" way for a while and see how things pan out.

Not sure I want to have all my windows in the same Space. That would suck as I constantly have Photoshop and Flash open, and I don't want them to be in the same Space as Safari, Skype, Adium, Mail, iTunes and Finder. That would be a total mess! I need a separate Space for Photoshop, a separate one for Flash, a separate one for iTunes and one for mostly everything else, as I don't use them at the same time. I don't want to have Photoshop behind my windows all the time, that would be stupid.

*LTD*
Jun 11, 2011, 04:50 PM
Not sure I want to have all my windows in the same Space. That would suck as I constantly have Photoshop and Flash open, and I don't want them to be in the same Space as Safari, Skype, Adium, Mail, iTunes and Finder. That would be a total mess! I need a separate Space for Photoshop, a separate one for Flash, a separate one for iTunes and one for mostly everything else, as I don't use them at the same time. I don't want to have Photoshop behind my windows all the time, that would be stupid.

You can certainly assign apps and their own windows to a particular space. That functionality is still there, and can now be accessed by clicking the app's icon in the Dock. But if you go full screen on any of those windows, those windows will get moved off to the side. Full screen windows are treated as separate and special. At least this is how it works in DP4.

NewGenAdam
Jun 27, 2011, 05:55 PM
is the grid functionality still not availiable? It's such an important, useful feature of the OS!

xgman
Jun 28, 2011, 01:51 PM
Ok I think I've figured it out.

I'm using it wrong. I'm still thinking in terms of how things worked in SL.

According to this video here . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG9l1l2cZ-E&feature=related

.

geeez, remind me never to use a magi mouse for gestures. That guy has to gesture 15 times to get anything to work right. Horrible.

SHatfield
Jul 2, 2011, 07:15 AM
I have a few spaces defined from my previous 10.6 install, and can use the trackpad gesture to move between them - so far so good. But when I go into Mission Control, I don't see the spaces at the top of the screen, nor do I see the clustered apps by space that I see in the video.

Any ideas why that is?

Pogopuschel
Jul 2, 2011, 12:06 PM
I can't believe this, Spaces was the #1 feature that made me more productive in 10.6. I hate the new system. It's all great to use for my mother with being able to go anywhere with gestures and clicks, but for a developer mainly using the keyboard it's a damn nightmare.

The only thing I have found to be effective is to change my habit and start using CTRL+# to switch between spaces instead of using the arrow keys like before. Not perfect, but well, no other choice. I also hate that full-screen apps create a new space, I totally defeats the purpose.

Anyway, one thing that really freaks me out right now is the damn spaces animation! Does anyone know how to turn this off?? "defaults write com.apple.dock workspaces-swoosh-animation-off -bool YES && killall Dock" from 10.6 doesn't seem to work for me.

RRRize
Jul 2, 2011, 11:10 PM
I can't believe this, Spaces was the #1 feature that made me more productive in 10.6. I hate the new system. It's all great to use for my mother with being able to go anywhere with gestures and clicks, but for a developer mainly using the keyboard it's a damn nightmare.

The only thing I have found to be effective is to change my habit and start using CTRL+# to switch between spaces instead of using the arrow keys like before. Not perfect, but well, no other choice. I also hate that full-screen apps create a new space, I totally defeats the purpose.

Anyway, one thing that really freaks me out right now is the damn spaces animation! Does anyone know how to turn this off?? "defaults write com.apple.dock workspaces-swoosh-animation-off -bool YES && killall Dock" from 10.6 doesn't seem to work for me.

You say there's no other choice but there TOTALLY is. DO NOT upgrade (or downgrade) to Lion. It is my intention to use Snow Leopard for as long as I can, until I'm forced to switch because one or more of my main applications that I use gets a major overhaul and the minimum requirement is Lion. Till that time, I'm sticking to Snow Leopard.

WSR
Jul 3, 2011, 07:01 PM
is the grid functionality still not availiable? It's such an important, useful feature of the OS!

I agree. The loss of the grid functionality is why I'm planning to stay with Snow Leopard. To me spaces and expose have both been downgraded in Lion.

torana355
Jul 3, 2011, 10:08 PM
Control-1,2,3,4 (or any key combo you want) will send you to that particular space.

I did like the functionality you're talking about, though.

The Control- 1,2,3 act does not work for me on the GM.

aristobrat
Jul 3, 2011, 10:34 PM
The Control- 1,2,3 act does not work for me on the GM.
CTRL 1 and CTRL 2 should do that. Check out your Mission Control Keyboard Shortcuts settings in Keyboard part of System Preferences.

torana355
Jul 3, 2011, 10:39 PM
CTRL 1 and CTRL 2 should do that. Check out your Mission Control Keyboard Shortcuts settings in Keyboard part of System Preferences.

Yeah that worked i had to enable the shortcuts. Cheers.

BlackMangoTree
Jul 3, 2011, 11:45 PM
So, there is no way to expose all your spaces (i.e. overview) with all open apps and windows in Lion?

Nope

danb77
Jul 4, 2011, 05:57 AM
I don't have spaces activated for me in Lion GM. (All references to Desktop 2, etc. are missing from keyboard shortcuts). How do I enable them?

Edit: Ignore me. I figured it out.

To those similarly confused, Spaces are now created from the Mission Control screen (Click on the giant plus in the top right of the screen!)

ixthy
Jul 13, 2011, 11:51 PM
I will definitely not downgrade to lion!!! I'll stick with Snow Leopard and I hope that many others will do the same thing! Spaces & Expose are great and mission control could be a nice addition to them, but not an alternative! I also don't understand why they stopped offering some utilities like isync and frontrow! Unless they offer better replacements.

mac.os.x.10.3
Jul 14, 2011, 01:28 AM
Yep, I'll not be upgrading to 10.7 for long while, I'll probably dual boot the two for a few months and wait for a third party to release something like Spaces for Lion.

It's a real shame Apple got rid of Spaces, if they just made some tweeks ti fix the biggest issues I would of been the happiest person... now im just pissed :(

ixthy
Jul 14, 2011, 08:10 PM
I think that we should not buy lion and at the same time we should complaint specially at their forums. We should give them the hint, that mac isn't iphone!!! If they want to integrate some of the iOS's advantages to mac, so be it, but they shouldn't kill anything good in the previous Mac OS X releases. Specially not spaces and expose!!! I can't imagine that even a single user did a complaint against spaces and expose. And for God's shake, even if someone don't like them, he can deactivate them very easily!!!! Jeeeezzzz!!!!:apple:

WSR
Jul 15, 2011, 06:47 PM
I think that we should not buy lion and at the same time we should complaint specially at their forums. We should give them the hint, that mac isn't iphone!!! If they want to integrate some of the iOS's advantages to mac, so be it, but they shouldn't kill anything good in the previous Mac OS X releases. Specially not spaces and expose!!! I can't imagine that even a single user did a complaint against spaces and expose. And for God's shake, even if someone don't like them, he can deactivate them very easily!!!! Jeeeezzzz!!!!:apple:

I'm with you I'm not planning to update to Lion any time soon.

1. The downgrading of expose and spaces. I currently use 9 spaces to separate what I'm currently doing, and having them arranged in a grid helps me move quickly from one space to another. Also, when I use expose, I want to see the entire window not only parts of them while the rest are hidden behind other windows.

2. Resume seems it could be problematic. When I open a program I what to be taken to a neutral spot, not where I was before. Also when closing, I want the program to ask me about saving so that I know that the saved file is what I want it to be.

mrblack927
Jul 15, 2011, 09:53 PM
It's sad really. When DP1 came out, I really was (foolishly) optimistic that it was just a rough first version... and that they would polish the new spaces so that it would be at least as powerful as 10.6 and 10.5. I thought, sure, they obviously want to so something new, but there's no way they would go backwards.

Then every subsequent DP was a little more disheartening. And now here we are... the GM seed and this is what they've settled on. Sad.

Steve.P.JobsFan
Jul 15, 2011, 09:58 PM
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7751/unledsn.jpg

GoKyu
Jul 15, 2011, 10:11 PM
Image (http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7751/unledsn.jpg)

If someone would write a commercial virtual window manager similar to this, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

R.I.P. Spaces, seems we hardly knew ye, but loved ye all the same.

qoem
Jul 16, 2011, 07:34 AM
there's a whole lot of things that are not ok with mission control, one being that even with a 15" screen if you have 3-4 similar finder windows in one desktop (which you're forced to since there is no easy desktop switching option, has anybody noticed that animation+redraw takes almost one second? having six desktops and having to go 1-to-5 with the keyboard takes time, and so does with the mouse, therefore having more than 3-4 desktops is inefficient) when you spawn mission control it's hard to tell which one is the actual window you want to open because they're too tiny to read the title bar and since you can't see the content (they're in a pile) you can't tell one from the other.

then obviously you can't move a window from a desktop which is not the one you're looking at to another one, which is pretty stupid. also the fact that exposé's replacement takes up a small part of the screen is kind of irrational. i think that the only reason anybody might like mission control is that it reminds of the inefficiency of using a touchscreen (there's a reason why keyboards and mice are still employed, imagine using final cut with your fingers, or even programming with a touchscreen), so "it's like using an ipad", but you're not using an ipad, you're using a pc on a wheelchair.

TL;DR, for who requested "a commercial application which reverts to the old behaviour", i'd like to remind that before leopard there was no spaces and there were third party apps for the virtual desktops. i used to have this one (http://virtuedesktops.info/), and it did the trick (oh, and it was free).

ixthy
Jul 16, 2011, 09:58 AM
there's a whole lot of things that are not ok with mission control, one being that even with a 15" screen if you have 3-4 similar finder windows in one desktop (which you're forced to since there is no easy desktop switching option, has anybody noticed that animation+redraw takes almost one second? having six desktops and having to go 1-to-5 with the keyboard takes time, and so does with the mouse, therefore having more than 3-4 desktops is inefficient) when you spawn mission control it's hard to tell which one is the actual window you want to open because they're too tiny to read the title bar and since you can't see the content (they're in a pile) you can't tell one from the other.

then obviously you can't move a window from a desktop which is not the one you're looking at to another one, which is pretty stupid. also the fact that exposé's replacement takes up a small part of the screen is kind of irrational. i think that the only reason anybody might like mission control is that it reminds of the inefficiency of using a touchscreen (there's a reason why keyboards and mice are still employed, imagine using final cut with your fingers, or even programming with a touchscreen), so "it's like using an ipad", but you're not using an ipad, you're using a pc on a wheelchair.

TL;DR, for who requested "a commercial application which reverts to the old behaviour", i'd like to remind that before leopard there was no spaces and there were third party apps for the virtual desktops. i used to have this one (http://virtuedesktops.info/), and it did the trick (oh, and it was free).

Let's hope that we will have programs like this for Lion! This is our only hope for now! Do you know if this program could work with Lion? Is it still downloadable for Mac?

colourfastt
Jul 16, 2011, 10:43 AM
I much prefer it, but maybe that's because I have a Magic Trackpad. You can now switch between Spaces with a 3 or 4 finger swipe. It works brilliantly - so much better than before.

Ok, so it's not only "let's bring the limited tablet interface to the desktop", it's now "let's turn desktop computers into laptops".

*LTD*
Jul 16, 2011, 10:45 AM
Image (http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7751/unledsn.jpg)

Although I disagree, that's pretty clever. :)

qoem
Jul 16, 2011, 11:21 AM
Let's hope that we will have programs like this for Lion! This is our only hope for now! Do you know if this program could work with Lion? Is it still downloadable for Mac?
it doesn't because there have been big changes in the infrastructure. there might be similar ones at some point (i hope).

chillvisio
Jul 16, 2011, 10:53 PM
Let's hope that Spaces feature will reappear in 10.7, and not in 10.8 for yet another 30 bucks.

I shall not be buying Lion even if Spaces and Exposé are completely fixed. I've tested the GM and simply found that it is downgrading my Mac mini to an iPad. I do not need an iPad, neither do I want my Mac to look or act like an iPad. Some of the iPad like features of the 10.7 are reversible, but I am afraid that in 10.8 there will be no way back.

Sorry for the offtopic, but I also miss the Front Row app. I've used it with Perian for watching some music videos or movies during the weekends. With Lion I shall need to install some other media center like XBMC.
Almost forgot to mention Rosetta ("the most amazing software you'll never see"). My old Canon Lide20 scanner software does not run without it.

Thunderbird
Jul 17, 2011, 12:58 AM
If someone would write a commercial virtual window manager similar to this, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

R.I.P. Spaces, seems we hardly knew ye, but loved ye all the same.

Well, there was Hyperspaces but they have now stopped active development due to incompatibilities with Lion.

Simplicated
Jul 17, 2011, 04:48 AM
Image (http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7751/unledsn.jpg)

Add this too... He will be missed.

http://img807.imageshack.us/img807/7365/ripexpos.png

For those who don't understand, here's what happened:

294130

Compared to Leopard, with the same windows (I have my Dock swapped to the pre-Snow Leopard one)

294131

CristobalHuet
Jul 17, 2011, 07:37 AM
Add this too... He will be missed.

Image (http://img807.imageshack.us/img807/7365/ripexpos.png)

For those who don't understand, here's what happened:

294130

Compared to Leopard, with the same windows (I have my Dock swapped to the pre-Snow Leopard one)

294131

Holy exaggeration, Batman! :rolleyes:

What you're doing in the Lion screenshot is "All Windows" Expose. If you four-finger swipe down, you'll get the regular "Application Windows" Expose akin to your Snow Leopard screenshot.

Simplicated
Jul 17, 2011, 08:14 AM
Holy exaggeration, Batman! :rolleyes:

What you're doing in the Lion screenshot is "All Windows" Expose. If you four-finger swipe down, you'll get the regular "Application Windows" Expose akin to your Snow Leopard screenshot.

What if you have multiple apps that also have multiple windows? The same mess will happen (and look even worse). Switching to the application you want, then using the gesture is not very practical. The beauty of the old Exposé is that you could just see every window and switch to the exact window of a particular application with ease.

harrisondavies
Jul 17, 2011, 08:27 AM
What annoys me is I spent time setting up apps to open in individual spaces. Delete those spaces in error and hey your preferences disappear. sigh

harrisondavies
Jul 17, 2011, 08:30 AM
Mission control would be great if they allowed you to CMD + Tab or scroll through the windows

CristobalHuet
Jul 17, 2011, 08:51 AM
What if you have multiple apps that also have multiple windows? The same mess will happen (and look even worse). Switching to the application you want, then using the gesture is not very practical. The beauty of the old Exposé is that you could just see every window and switch to the exact window of a particular application with ease.

Sorry, I don't agree. I hardly miss it when my windows were like this:

http://marusu.channelblue.net/images/expose_too_many_windows.png

If you want to get a better look at any of your windows in Mission Control, you could swipe with two fingers (scrolling gesture) on a particular app cluster, and the rest will fade down to show you more of the app in question.

Mission Control isn't perfect, but I appreciate the way it groups windows more than what we used to get in the screenshot above. Yes, it's an extra step, but it's helped me get to where I want to go sooner than having every single window thumbnail previewed got me. :)

Simplicated
Jul 17, 2011, 08:58 AM
If you want to get a better look at any of your windows in Mission Control, you could swipe with two fingers (scrolling gesture) on a particular app cluster, and the rest will fade down to show you more of the app in question.

I did that in the screenshot. Still, 3 windows were still completely covered and impossible to click.

Mission Control isn't perfect, but I appreciate the way it groups windows more than what we used to get in the screenshot above. Yes, it's an extra step, but it's helped me get to where I want to go sooner than having every single window thumbnail previewed got me. :)

And we're going back to the original point again... Try it with multiple windows. MANY windows of the same app will be completely covered unless you go to Application Exposé.

baryon
Jul 17, 2011, 09:29 AM
I group my windows by space, so I never have more than 2-3 windows open on a single space, so I never need to use App Exposé and I don't need to have my app windows grouped by app.

I don't like to have a cluttered desktop with windows behind each other, I prefer to have them around in a few spaces (I use 6). The current Mission Control favors using Exposé instead of Spaces to arrange your windows, which I don't find practical. But since I haven't tried Lion yet, I can't say for sure. Maybe Mission Control will work just great with 6 spaces.

mrblack927
Jul 19, 2011, 09:14 PM
Sorry, I don't agree. I hardly miss it when my windows were like this:

http://marusu.channelblue.net/images/expose_too_many_windows.png

Weird, because that screenshot looks so much better than mission control to me. I guess I just can't help but see the efficiency. I love the 10.5 expose.

Saturn1217
Jul 19, 2011, 10:28 PM
Slightly off topic question.

In SL you used to be able to write a terminal command to configure app expose so it only showed you windows within the current space (not all spaces). I just tried this terminal command in Lion with no luck. Does anyone know a way to get this functionality in Lion? I hate being in one space checking app expose and suddenly being yanked to another space:mad:

Maybe its just me :confused:

ixthy
Jul 20, 2011, 09:31 AM
Sorry, I don't agree. I hardly miss it when my windows were like this:

http://marusu.channelblue.net/images/expose_too_many_windows.png

If you want to get a better look at any of your windows in Mission Control, you could swipe with two fingers (scrolling gesture) on a particular app cluster, and the rest will fade down to show you more of the app in question.

Mission Control isn't perfect, but I appreciate the way it groups windows more than what we used to get in the screenshot above. Yes, it's an extra step, but it's helped me get to where I want to go sooner than having every single window thumbnail previewed got me. :)

You have right about expose in 10.5, although I prefer it versus mission control! But 10.6 expose and spaces is a lot better in many ways!!! First of all you have a grid that labels each window you try to preview through expose. Then by pressing the dock icon of your running app you see only the windows of this active app. Then all windows and spaces can be moved, or grouped just by dragging them wherever you want. In mission control you can't arrange spaces and windows so easily. Mission control even denies your freedom of choice in where to put this or that. So for me that is a no no!!!:mad:

P.S. In SL expose even separates the minimised windows from the open ones!

Without SL's convenience in Lion I can't upgrade and believe me I'm sad about that!

sfwalter
Jul 20, 2011, 12:22 PM
Is there a way to rename spaces? Instead of Desktop1, Desktop2, etc?

Montys
Jul 20, 2011, 01:42 PM
I don't see the logic reason for removing a feature many users are comfortable with. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Sure, innovation. But why not give users the option of choosing? I don't know about you but I def. will not be upgrading before the issue with Spaces is fixed.

NLight
Jul 20, 2011, 04:58 PM
Really wish I had read a little more about Lion before pressing the 'Buy' button. They have taken away the feature that was the main reason why I spent nearly a £1000 on this laptop only a few months ago. So somehow I've ended up spending yet more money (as little as it is relatively, I'm still a student) to take the real value of the £1000 away from me. Lovely. Suffice to say, I'm livid. Now I'm faced with the arduous task of downgrading to SL, which I believe won't be as easy and as harmless as the Lion 'upgrade'. Thanks, Apple.

Oh and I have just emailed the big man upstairs, in slight glimmer of hope that he may just pull some magic answer from somewhere that will shed light on the company's decision making. Fingers crossed.

I apologise if that sounded a little bit ranty, it's just £1000 is a lot of money to me. And besides, I'm not used to feeling cheated by Apple.

mullet
Jul 20, 2011, 05:01 PM
I don't see the logic reason for removing a feature many users are comfortable with. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Sure, innovation. But why not give users the option of choosing? I don't know about you but I def. will not be upgrading before the issue with Spaces is fixed.

This is exactly how I feel about the situation. One step forward, two steps back.

Montys
Jul 21, 2011, 01:42 AM
Really wish I had read a little more about Lion before pressing the 'Buy' button. They have taken away the feature that was the main reason why I spent nearly a £1000 on this laptop only a few months ago. So somehow I've ended up spending yet more money (as little as it is relatively, I'm still a student) to take the real value of the £1000 away from me. Lovely. Suffice to say, I'm livid. Now I'm faced with the arduous task of downgrading to SL, which I believe won't be as easy and as harmless as the Lion 'upgrade'. Thanks, Apple.

Oh and I have just emailed the big man upstairs, in slight glimmer of hope that he may just pull some magic answer from somewhere that will shed light on the company's decision making. Fingers crossed.

I apologise if that sounded a little bit ranty, it's just £1000 is a lot of money to me. And besides, I'm not used to feeling cheated by Apple.

You can downgrade easily using a Time Machine backup. It takes some time but it's painless.

Serif
Jul 21, 2011, 09:58 AM
Fortunately I chose to take a look at Lion on a spare MacBook rather than either of my main desktop computers (and for once remembered to take an image beforehand using Carbon Copy Cloner so I can undo the damage easily).

I'm a heavy user of Spaces using Expose only occasionally; I come from a Linux background and am used to thinking of having specific applications bound to specific virtual desktops which means I very rarely lose track of where something is and everything is a ^<digit> key press away.

I've found that if I ignore full screen applications and stick to just using desktops (with applications filling an entire desktop when you want that functionality) then I can approximate my old functionality. Create the number of desktops you want, move to each desktop and start up the application(s) that should run on that desktop and make sure the application is bound there by using the desktop assignment option accessed through the application's icon in the dock.

Windows can also be moved from desktop to desktop in the same was as under SL by clicking and holding on the top of the window and using the appropriate ^<digit> key combination.

A lot of the confusion caused by Lion seems to be because desktops and the new full screen applications seem to be managed as if they were the same thing. That and the loss of the grid of virtual desktops metaphor. For now I'll be keeping all my other computers on SL until Lion restores restores the ease of use I expect or until a 3rd party application steps in to undo the damage.

I was already intending to keep my main home desktop on SL because of the loss of Rosetta. The dumbing down of Spaces means I'll now not be upgrading my other machines either for a while.

jtrenda33
Jul 21, 2011, 09:26 PM
http://marusu.channelblue.net/images/expose_too_many_windows.png



This is hilarious. It looks like the floor boards in my car, which Wal-Mart kindly described as an 'unsafe environment' when they went to vacuum during my last oil change.

Balaamsdonkey
Jul 22, 2011, 01:52 AM
My problem with mission control is that you can't assign more than one open window to a "Desktop". W/ two monitors (Laptop+external monitor) one gets two sets of Desktop 1, Desktop 2, etc., but one is unable to assign more than one window to each Desktop unless it is on the second monitor at which point only two windows can be assigned to a Desktop--one for one screen and another for the other screen. All other windows must be either unassigned or assigned to different Desktops.

I just discovered how to do what I thought one could not do in the above paragraph. How to is a little wonky though.

sunrize
Jul 23, 2011, 05:36 AM
I actually lost visibility with the new Mission Control... whatever the name implies of an illusion of added functionality!
I want to see more all at once.

jarome
Jul 23, 2011, 08:35 AM
My problem with mission control is that you can't assign more than one open window to a "Desktop". W/ two monitors (Laptop+external monitor) one gets two sets of Desktop 1, Desktop 2, etc., but one is unable to assign more than one window to each Desktop unless it is on the second monitor at which point only two windows can be assigned to a Desktop--one for one screen and another for the other screen. All other windows must be either unassigned or assigned to different Desktops.

I just discovered how to do what I thought one could not do in the above paragraph. How to is a little wonky though.

You can easily switch directly to a desktop using keyboard shortcuts. But I have found no way of moving windows from space to space except for moving from the current space to other spaces.

fisherking
Jul 23, 2011, 09:39 AM
what a mess, hope it's fixed in the first update.

i like the idea of mission control, but i can't believe i can't reorder desktops at the top of the window, and pin them. i'd like my apps to stay where i tell them.

i keep trying to structure my windows, i've used the dock option to 'pin' an app to a window, but nothing seems to hold.

my life has enough chaos, i want my mac to be ORDERED :D

chas0001
Jul 23, 2011, 09:45 AM
what a mess, hope it's fixed in the first update.

i like the idea of mission control, but i can't believe i can't reorder desktops at the top of the window, and pin them. i'd like my apps to stay where i tell them.

i keep trying to structure my windows, i've used the dock option to 'pin' an app to a window, but nothing seems to hold.

my life has enough chaos, i want my mac to be ORDERED :D

You can still pin an application to a particular desktop, you just have to do it through the dock instead. Right click on the app in the dock, choose options then under 'assign to' choose 'this desktop'.

klaxamazoo
Jul 23, 2011, 10:23 AM
Mission Control would be workable if the "spread" feature worked better. Currently it only moves the windows a little bit and they still cover each other. This makes it impossible to select a window and drag it to a new space.

Yes, I know there is App Expose, but this takes you back to the desktop and now you cannot move windows to a new space. Mission Control needs to allow you to actually manage your windows, not just select desktops or applications.

scstraus
Jul 23, 2011, 03:17 PM
Oh man, this just doesn't work. I can't manage 6 spaces in a straight line. This pretty much kills any hope of using lion anywhere but my laptop. What a bummer.

Also, why the hell is finder floating in front when I switch back and forth?

baryon
Jul 23, 2011, 03:24 PM
I like the idea of swiping left and right to get to various spaces, but what I don't like is that you have NO IDEA where the hell you are. The old Spaces gave you a little HUD map of which space you were in. Now you have no idea what's on your left and what's on your right, and going into Mission Control doesn't help: of the many little thumbnails at the top, you have no idea which is the one you're on now, unless you notice the thin light grey border around it. But that doesn't help, since the thumbnails are way too small to tell what the **** is on them. The only thing that works is Full Screen Apps, since you have the app icon on it. Everything else is just random.

Apple, bring back Spaces!

PS: Don't you just hate that you swipe left to get to an instant messenger or whatever, and start typing, but your text input only gets registered once the animation completely comes to a halt? And the animation takes forever, unless you swipe unnaturally fast! Annoying!

macbook2,1
Jul 24, 2011, 07:10 PM
Would there be someway to bring Spaces back to Lion in the same way that people brought the Tiger Front Row to Leopard? If I remember correctly, wasn't there a "Spaces.app" file on Snow Leopard? Or I thought I saw some of the developer versions of Lion with Exposé & Spaces, could there be someway to bring those to the final release??? That would be awesome!!

stressymum
Jul 26, 2011, 09:26 AM
I am totally with you all on this - spaces in Lion is horrible! I had beautifully configured 4x4 spaces in SL and every app had its own space, and it is now ALL GONE. I am still tripping over my own fingers trying to get used to Mission Control, which is a blinking nightmare. I cannot always see the apps in its assigned desktop, and the windows overlap and hide each other. The windows don't always show up either.

This one feature is tempting me to de-install Lion and revert to SL, if not for the fact that for some reason, since installing Lion, my MBP seems to be performing better (i.e. quicker with less spiral wheels lag). Grrr...

:mad::(

dkaleky
Jul 26, 2011, 12:16 PM
This one feature is tempting me to de-install Lion and revert to SL,

I already did. It is unreal why Apple would put out this OS and at least not option spaces.

I wasted enough time with it- and it is back to SL

jaimeastin
Jul 26, 2011, 12:28 PM
I already did. It is unreal why Apple would put out this OS and at least not option spaces.

I wasted enough time with it- and it is back to SL

yeah... MC is MESSY.

Like a table with junkmail scattered about... Spaces was very usable. I have giving launch pad more credit than I thought, but it is nothing to write home about...

What you all have to realize is that there are more ios devices out there than macs... Apple has gained more people from ios to mac than mac to ios... This is why things are going back there. The ios users usually know nothing about computers. I was talking and laughing with an apple genius not too long ago about iphone/ipod users who never ever back up or connect their devices to the computer. Most of them bearly use it or know how to use it. It is simple yes, but people use it in a simple fashion... So, the more the mac mimics the ios, the easier it would be for people who use ios to come in. Most think the iphone is so easy, the mac must be... it is, but they still do not understand because it is not ios simple...

That was off topic, but apple's push with line is not good... it is pretty, but the bullying you into a new way which offers little benifit is awful. Good thing it is just the first run....

relax11
Jul 26, 2011, 01:04 PM
Spaces was meant for the old PC universe - for a large screen that could support multiple projects and platforms, with maximum user control over layout.

The new iOS universe is not only much simpler, but it is less user dependent - and it is based on the one dimensional linear screen flow of the iPhone/iPad.

The user must be re-educated to live in this space. If it cannot work on the iPhone, than it will be phased out.

Welcome to the future.

dkaleky
Jul 26, 2011, 01:54 PM
but the bullying you into a new way

That's exactly what I was thinking-- we all want the new OS-- but then they shove this down our throats-- to relearn how we have been productive for the last few years.


Spaces was meant for the old PC universe

Huh? Not even remotely true.

Old Pc universe has this? Win 7 has something similar to cascade thru windows, but not the same at all. Not even close to spaces. XP never had this.

And if Apple was taking anything from MS- at least MS KEPT old UI option for people who wanted the new OS but didn't want to relearn things.

Bisz
Jul 26, 2011, 03:12 PM
+1 for missing the SL Spaces. I had a hot corner set up for spaces, and they were all big enough that you could see what was on each one so you could drag it to another space to organize things just so. Not the case with Mission Control, which is disappointing. The other drawback for me like it seems for many others is the fact that all of the windows overlap and cover each other in MS so its hard to see whats on them.

Chase R
Jul 28, 2011, 05:16 PM
I would be happy if Apple would make the transition animation quicker, and added the ability to arrange spaces in Mission Control. Then it would be livable...

vinodhan
Jul 29, 2011, 01:39 AM
Hey guys!

How come u guys didnt figure spaces on lion? Its not termed as spaces but as DESKTOP in lion...

1. Launch Mission Control
2. Move ur pointer to near top right screen (If u have hot corners activated on the top right corner u might go that assigned screen. So make sure so u dont move your pointer to that close.)
3. You get a big '+' button there.. click on it and u get a new DESKTOP (or SPACES as in SL and that sign comes with the default desktop picture as background.)

Once u click on it you would get a new space termed as DESKTOP 2. You can rename them, have a different wallpaper and Even open application on any 'desktop' from any desktop.

EDIT: Then u can just swipe from left to right or right to left using your four fingers to switch between spaces.

For eg.

Say I want to open Mail in 'DESKTOP 2' and I am in 'DESKTOP 3' I can right click on the icon and go to options and chose either 'This Desktop' or 'All Desktop'.


and another tip is the shortkey! its command key and the number guys together... I am pretty sure apple most of you should have figured it out.. for others this is a tip i feel.. Message me if there is more doubt!

klaxamazoo
Jul 29, 2011, 07:01 AM
Hey guys!

How come u guys didnt figure spaces on lion? Its not termed as spaces but as DESKTOP in lion...

1. Launch Mission Control
2. Move ur pointer to near top right screen (If u have hot corners activated on the top right corner u might go that assigned screen. So make sure so u dont move your pointer to that close.)
3. You get a big '+' button there.. click on it and u get a new DESKTOP (or SPACES as in SL and that sign comes with the default desktop picture as background.)

Once u click on it you would get a new space termed as DESKTOP 2. You can rename them, have a different wallpaper and Even open application on any 'desktop' from any desktop.

EDIT: Then u can just swipe from left to right or right to left using your four fingers to switch between spaces.

For eg.

Say I want to open Mail in 'DESKTOP 2' and I am in 'DESKTOP 3' I can right click on the icon and go to options and chose either 'This Desktop' or 'All Desktop'.


and another tip is the shortkey! its command key and the number guys together... I am pretty sure apple most of you should have figured it out.. for others this is a tip i feel.. Message me if there is more doubt!

If you read the posts you will see the the problem is not adding spaces, but the poor implementation of expose/spaces in Mission Control. The problem is that the Expose within Mission Control leaves your windows covered and unreadable.

baryon
Jul 29, 2011, 07:06 AM
Hey guys!

How come u guys didnt figure spaces on lion? Its not termed as spaces but as DESKTOP in lion...

1. Launch Mission Control
2. Move ur pointer to near top right screen (If u have hot corners activated on the top right corner u might go that assigned screen. So make sure so u dont move your pointer to that close.)
3. You get a big '+' button there.. click on it and u get a new DESKTOP (or SPACES as in SL and that sign comes with the default desktop picture as background.)

Once u click on it you would get a new space termed as DESKTOP 2. You can rename them, have a different wallpaper and Even open application on any 'desktop' from any desktop.

EDIT: Then u can just swipe from left to right or right to left using your four fingers to switch between spaces.

For eg.

Say I want to open Mail in 'DESKTOP 2' and I am in 'DESKTOP 3' I can right click on the icon and go to options and chose either 'This Desktop' or 'All Desktop'.


and another tip is the shortkey! its command key and the number guys together... I am pretty sure apple most of you should have figured it out.. for others this is a tip i feel.. Message me if there is more doubt!

Yep. You can multitask with Mission Control. Same way, you can write a book on a typewriter. No need for a computer.

Ropie
Jul 29, 2011, 07:19 AM
You can rename them

Really - how?

rlhamil
Aug 6, 2011, 01:25 AM
Why make the computer more and more linear?=

Because too many people got tired of babysitting their (parents, significant other, etc ) who only had a linear mind?

Remember the line in "Wrath of Khan" about two-dimensional thinking? Now go outside, look at the idiots around you, and consider how many of them are challenged dealing with just _one_ dimension.

No, simpler isn't always better. But at least it keeps the phone from ringing for silly questions.

QuarterSwede
Aug 6, 2011, 01:37 AM
I am totally with you all on this - spaces in Lion is horrible! I had beautifully configured 4x4 spaces in SL and every app had its own space, and it is now ALL GONE. I am still tripping over my own fingers trying to get used to Mission Control, which is a blinking nightmare. I cannot always see the apps in its assigned desktop, and the windows overlap and hide each other. The windows don't always show up either.
Part of the problem is that MC is buggy. If Safari crashes in Fullscreen (and 5.1 does often) half the time the space will still be there but be unusable. iTunes in Fullscreen is even worse when it decides to hang when starting up and then crashes. You're basically left with having to delete and reinstall it.

I also hate how the most recently fullscreened app goes to the end of the list. It should be next to the last desktop!

And why doesn't cmd+tab take me to a fullscreen app if I'm on a desktop? It works if you're looking at a fullscreen app. I'm guessing that's a bug because it sure as hell isn't consistent.

Coming from Spaces, MC is not well thought out. I, too, trip over my fingers trying to remember what the new hotkeys are. I have a feeling it works a lot better with gestures (I'm on a white Macbook).

The pSYION
Aug 7, 2011, 08:01 AM
Is anyone here using the GM seed instead of the App Store version? I noticed many of my issues vanished when i did a fresh install off the App Store instead of using the one from the Developers site.

Cougarcat
Aug 7, 2011, 12:49 PM
Is anyone here using the GM seed instead of the App Store version? I noticed many of my issues vanished when i did a fresh install off the App Store instead of using the one from the Developers site.

It was some other reason. The two versions are identical.

ru4real
Aug 7, 2011, 02:46 PM
My biggest problem with the new MC is that you can't drag applications from one desktop (aka space) to another unless you're dragging it FROM the active desktop. Although in the old spaces world I usually started out organizing spaces by application, as my day got busier I would use a free space to gather everything for a certain project. This process used to be really easy - fly open my spaces, grab whatever windows from various applications that I wanted and drop them all into the same space. I can't do that anymore and it's really frustrating!

Even a really basic thing, like say I'm in Word on Desktop 3 and I want to bring an already open window for Chrome over. I want to just open mission control while on Desktop 3, grab the Chrome window from Desktop 2 and drag it over to where I'm working. Nope. Can't do that anymore. I have to switch to Desktop 2 first, then move the Chrome window over, and then switch back to Desktop 3. Slightly annoying if I'm just moving one application, super-mega-annoying if I'm trying to gather 3-4 applications. Lion IMO is definitely a massive downgrade from SL.

TsunamiTheClown
Aug 8, 2011, 11:28 AM
I wish I could throw the mouse away and just use the keyboard.

Seriously, if you are a developer, you shouldn't know what a mouse is OR that it exists. Keyboard is the way to go.

Yeah, alas for the mouse-jockeys.

TsunamiTheClown
Aug 8, 2011, 11:36 AM
I've looked and looked; defaults in terminal - everywhere. All i want to do is rearrange the order of my desktops on de fly.

Please don't make me sit there and think 'Self, where are you gonna open up your mail, and don't forget the database, and oh yeah- Coda, and ...'

Can i just reach out and grasp a desktop, and -picture it- sliiiiide it over here. Oh yeah. That was good. Ya'll feelin in me? Is that too much to ask?

TsunamiTheClown
Aug 8, 2011, 11:41 AM
Spaces was meant for the old PC universe - for a large screen that could support multiple projects and platforms, with maximum user control over layout.

The new iOS universe is not only much simpler, but it is less user dependent - and it is based on the one dimensional linear screen flow of the iPhone/iPad.

The user must be re-educated to live in this space. If it cannot work on the iPhone, than it will be phased out.

Welcome to the future.
~~muuuuust be reeduuuuuucated~~ ...arms raised in front, slow gait...

Ferry888
Aug 8, 2011, 03:50 PM
After reading this I too must say I love how Spaces work. I won't upgrade since everything works fine on SL for me. Hope Apple makes Spaces a part of Lion again.

baryon
Aug 8, 2011, 04:07 PM
Spaces was meant for the old PC universe - for a large screen that could support multiple projects and platforms, with maximum user control over layout.

The new iOS universe is not only much simpler, but it is less user dependent - and it is based on the one dimensional linear screen flow of the iPhone/iPad.

The user must be re-educated to live in this space. If it cannot work on the iPhone, than it will be phased out.

Welcome to the future.

Yes, that's like saying that all cars should be like motorized shopping trolleys (the ones that old fat people use in Walmart). Who needs to go fast with big, comfortable cars? Now it's all about underpowered gadgets, let's also make full-powered cars run slower to be the same!

The iOS universe is for CASUAL use. I can't use my iPod Touch or an iPad to do serious work. It's not immersive or comfortable. Try do edit a 2-hour movie on an iPhone or iPad. Try to edit 3000 large format digital pictures in Photoshop on an iPad. You can't. Because there's no workflow.

Spaces made hardcore organizing easy. Sure it wasn't perfect, but Mission Control has way more bugs and is way worse in terms of flexibility and usefulness. With MC, I can't drag windows from any space to any other space. For people working with 20 open apps with loads of windows, you have to do that.

Sure, for casual grannies who are fine with iPads, Lion is great. But then get an iPad, it's cheaper and cooler. Why get a computer then? If you want serious work, get a computer. And expect it to work like a computer. That means a nonlinear approach. It allows you to use your brain and organize things in a visual way. A linear approach is less visual, especially with the tiny thumbnails. Perfect for stupid people.

However, I don't want to feel stupid...

Steve's Barber
Aug 8, 2011, 05:11 PM
Sure, for casual grannies who are fine with iPads, Lion is great. But then get an iPad, it's cheaper and cooler.

This pretty much sums it up. Leaving it "as is".

mobtek
Aug 8, 2011, 06:42 PM
I would be happy if Apple would make the transition animation quicker, and added the ability to arrange spaces in Mission Control. Then it would be livable...

It is quicker if you use ctrl-1 etc my keystrokes of ctrl-arrow keys is slow as **** and bug the crap outta me all day :) :mad:

colourfastt
Aug 8, 2011, 10:28 PM
~~muuuuust be reeduuuuuucated~~ ...arms raised in front, slow gait...

We are Apple. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. You will become one with Apple.

handel30
Aug 10, 2011, 12:45 PM
It seems to me that the solution should be to just make Mission Control an optional and additional feature. Leave the old spaces and expose intact. As for grid view in spaces, this should be no problem. Spaces are still numbered in grid view and so the linear translation in Mission Control would just follow that.

It's the fact that Apple is forcing this on us that is mind boggling. I know a lot of people rant about Spaces, but I'm more astonished with how bad Mission Control messed up all-window expose. The entire point of pressing the expose button as it stands is to "un-layer" and tile your windows. Now, however, if you have two windows of the same application open (in addition to others) pressing the Mission Control button will actually force layer the windows of the same app together! Mission Control actually does the exact opposite of the solution expose provided and yet it's a "replacement" for expose! Madness...

Hello. Lion still has expose with the grid layout. You just have to enable it. I too was frustrated with the layering of windows in mission control, but now that I enabled expose, I love mission control. To see your windows in a grid, you swipe down; to see a row of linear spaces across the top of your window and your open app windows stacked/layered on the desktop, swipe up. I love Lion.

handel30
Aug 10, 2011, 12:55 PM
I only used Snow Leopard for a few days before switching to Lion. I love mission control and expose in Lion, but I'm wondering why people here think that spaces and expose were better in SL? Once I enabled expose in Lion, I regained the grid view of all my open app windows in a given space. I just have to swipe down. When I swipe up, I enter mission control. I love the fact that I can assign apps to different spaces. I also love that I can customize each space with a different desktop (that is, with different wallpaper). To get to a space, I just have to swipe left and right through all my windows and spaces until I reach the space I want. I can also enter mission control and click on the space/app that I want. This is wonderful. Why was it so much better in SL? I have to say that I also love the fact that I can four finger swipe to move through apps and three finger swipe to go from page to page within an app. I think the zoom feature is even better in Lion than it was in SL. I doubt I'd ever go back, but I still want to know what made spaces and expose so much better in SL. Thanks in advance for your answers or comments.

Gemütlichkeit
Aug 10, 2011, 01:03 PM
This is bad news, I rely heavily on spaces. Yet another reason not to upgrade.

I don't get how it's a big difference.

paulsalter
Aug 10, 2011, 01:11 PM
I only used Snow Leopard for a few days before switching to Lion. I love mission control and expose in Lion, but I'm wondering why people here are claiming that spaces and expose was better in SL? Once I enabled expose in Lion, I regained the grid view of all my open windows. I just have to swipe down. When I swipe up, I enter mission control. I love the fact that I can assign apps to different spaces. I also love that I can customize each space with a different desktop (that is, with different wallpaper). To get to a space, I just have to swipe left and right through them until I reach the space I want. Or I can enter mission control and click on the space/app that I want. This is wonderful. How was it so much better in SL? I have to say that I also love the fact that I can four finger swipe to move through apps and three finger swipe to go from page to page. The zoom feature is even better in Lion than it was in SL, too. I would never go back. But I do want to know what made spaces and expose so much better in SL. Thanks in advance for your comments.

here are some good examples of it in SL

http://thesmallwave.wordpress.com/2009/09/01/discoveries-in-mac-os-x-snow-leopard-the-dock-expose-and-spaces/

If you look at the Expose and Spaces together, gives an overview of everything running, in lion you can only see all the apps for current space

clicking on a space is just as easy, personally I preferred them in a grid instead of a straight line, made them bigger and easier to see

how do I view minimised apps in Lion, I cannot find a way, Expose in SL showed them in a smaller size along the bottom of the expose screen

Damers
Aug 10, 2011, 04:30 PM
We are Apple. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. You will become one with Apple.

Awesome.

handel30
Aug 10, 2011, 04:41 PM
Thanks for the link. Now I understand why so many people miss the ability to run spaces and expose at the same time. Not only does it expose every space, you also get every open window within each space in that great grid layout that really lets you SEE everything easily.

But I also like the way Lion does it. Across the top of the mission control page, I see every single space lined up horizontally. I also see all my open full screen windows. If you use full screen, then this is all you need. Functionally, it's the same as Snow Leopard's combined spaces and expose.

It's only when Safari windows are open but not in full screen that mission control only shows me the first window and hides the others, but this is true only along the top where the minimized icon windows are. On the desktop (that is, in center area of mission control as opposed to the grey border), I see all the windows stacked one atop the other, but I can bring each window forward by clicking on it. I guess this is where there is a very slight loss from Snow Leopard to Lion. However, I find it fairly easy to manipulate and spread out the pile of windows in mission control (although it could be easier).

If you don't like the way mission control stacks open safari windows, then all you have to do is use full screen mode and the stacking totally disappears. You see all full screen windows across the top along with all your spaces. And of course you also get the grid layout in Lion when you use expose, but you can only do it for one app at a time.

I didn't have time to get attached to Snow Leopard, so I'm welcoming Lion with open arms.

MBHockey
Aug 10, 2011, 05:01 PM
Hello. Lion still has expose with the grid layout. You just have to enable it. I too was frustrated with the layering of windows in mission control, but now that I enabled expose, I love mission control. To see your windows in a grid, you swipe down; to see a row of linear spaces across the top of your window and your open app windows stacked/layered on the desktop, swipe up. I love Lion.

You're confusing "application expose" with spaces grid layout. not the same thing.

BornToMac
Aug 10, 2011, 05:57 PM
Hello. Lion still has expose with the grid layout. You just have to enable it. I too was frustrated with the layering of windows in mission control, but now that I enabled expose, I love mission control. To see your windows in a grid, you swipe down; to see a row of linear spaces across the top of your window and your open app windows stacked/layered on the desktop, swipe up. I love Lion.

The problem I have with this is when you swipe down to get expose, it hides all of the windows of the same application behind each other. That means I can find firefox, but can't get an expose view of each of those windows without going back to the main space I was in and then swiping (or keyboard shortcut)again to get application view. You can't combine the two features like you could with Spaces and expose.

Steve's Barber
Aug 10, 2011, 06:46 PM
I don't get how it's a big difference.

Wow. Just wow.

You're just going to have to take people's word for it. MC does not equal Old Spaces or Expose'.

Not even close.

QuarterSwede
Aug 10, 2011, 07:18 PM
Wow. Just wow.

You're just going to have to take people's word for it. MC does not equal Old Spaces or Expose'.

Not even close.
It's a severely dumbed down version of both. That's what it's supposed to be of course ... to my dismay.

handel30
Aug 10, 2011, 09:05 PM
You're confusing "application expose" with spaces grid layout. not the same thing.

Yup, I see that now. So -- Lion retains "application expose," but gets rid of "spaces grid layout." Spaces grid layout is similar to application expose except that it offers a higher, more general view. It shows all open spaces along with all the open windows within each of the spaces. In short, spaces grid layout simply shows you all open windows, period. But if I can see all my spaces and also all my open (full screen) windows in Lion, then what has really been lost with mission control -- that is, as long as I remain in full screen? I still get to see all open windows in mission control. The only thing that Lion can't totally expose (fully reveal to view) are non-full screen windows within apps, which get piled on top of each other (although you can move them around and shuffle them). But to solve that problem all you need do is switch to full screen windows. Then you can see all open windows in the entire system just as in SL, you just get them lined up near the top of the screen rather than in the grid arrangement.

pcmxa
Aug 10, 2011, 09:20 PM
Yup, I see that now. So -- Lion retains "application expose," but gets rid of "spaces grid layout." Spaces grid layout is similar to application expose except that it offers a higher, more general view. It shows all open spaces along with all the open windows within each of the spaces. In short, spaces grid layout simply shows you all open windows, period. But if I can see all my spaces and also all my open (full screen) windows in Lion, then what has really been lost with mission control -- that is, as long as I remain in full screen? I still get to see all open windows in mission control. The only thing that Lion can't totally expose (fully reveal to view) are non-full screen windows within apps, which get piled on top of each other (although you can move them around and shuffle them). But to solve that problem all you need do is switch to full screen windows. Then you can see all open windows in the entire system just as in SL, you just get them lined up near the top of the screen rather than in the grid arrangement.

What it is missing is a way for me to easily find a particular file I am working on among several, say, in Photoshop. There are many programs where the full screen model doesn't work, particularly where you work across a number of files simultaneously. What SL used to deal with this was "All Windows" Expose, which allowed you to see every window of every application, including minimized windows, in a single view with one click access to all of them. There is no equivalent for this in Lion and Mission Control.

colourfastt
Aug 10, 2011, 09:54 PM
Thanks for the link. Now I understand why so many people miss the ability to run spaces and expose at the same time. Not only does it expose every space, you also get every open window within each space in that great grid layout that really lets you SEE everything easily.

But I also like the way Lion does it. Across the top of the mission control page, I see every single space lined up horizontally. I also see all my open full screen windows. If you use full screen, then this is all you need. Functionally, it's the same as Snow Leopard's combined spaces and expose.

It's only when Safari windows are open but not in full screen that mission control only shows me the first window and hides the others, but this is true only along the top where the minimized icon windows are. On the desktop (that is, in center area of mission control as opposed to the grey border), I see all the windows stacked one atop the other, but I can bring each window forward by clicking on it. I guess this is where there is a very slight loss from Snow Leopard to Lion. However, I find it fairly easy to manipulate and spread out the pile of windows in mission control (although it could be easier).

If you don't like the way mission control stacks open safari windows, then all you have to do is use full screen mode and the stacking totally disappears. You see all full screen windows across the top along with all your spaces. And of course you also get the grid layout in Lion when you use expose, but you can only do it for one app at a time.

I didn't have time to get attached to Snow Leopard, so I'm welcoming Lion with open arms.

Why in bloody **** would I use a full-screen anything with a 27" monitor??

Frozzie
Aug 10, 2011, 11:43 PM
It's becoming obvious that MC is scrambling Expose and Spaces all into one window, and not as efficient. More aesthetically pleasing but I don't like it.

Can't stop thinking that Lion is a step backwards unlike any other OSX releases. :cool:

WSR
Aug 10, 2011, 11:59 PM
Can't stop thinking that Lion is a step backwards unlike any other OSX releases. :cool:

I agree. With the downgrading of Spaces and Expose, multiple-monitors virtually useless in Full-Screen mode, and the loss of "Save As...", I think it is definitely a downgrade.

MartiNZ
Aug 11, 2011, 02:55 AM
Wow. Just wow.

You're just going to have to take people's word for it. MC does not equal Old Spaces or Expose'.

Not even close.

Indeed. One might even go so far as to say the old E = MC^2 ;).

I never got into using spaces in SL. I tried to do so with fullscreen apps in Lion but after trying that for a week I found that my old workflows were better, and reverted to just one space/desktop, and yet still MC isn't as good, as I can't get rid of the desktops bar at the top, AND it doesn't show minimised windows - in fact they are annoyingly hard to get to now with minimise to icon, so I've gone back to even older habits of Hiding apps, with the command line for dimming hidden dock icons, of course.

Edit: agree with just above and its quoted. iCal and Address Book looks are of course also downgrades, and autosave/versions are downgrades in user control.... At this rate Launchpad starts looking like an upgrade :eek:.

Steve's Barber
Aug 11, 2011, 08:29 AM
Indeed. One might even go so far as to say the old E = MC^2 ;).

I never got into using spaces in SL.Ditto this. Now I have to though because full screen apps get their own Space for some reason. (And people... don't tell me it's because there is no desktop in a full screen app... who cares, it's just another window to me).

Looking at Mission Control is a garbled mess. I have to scan top to bottom just to find anything. Give me Expose back... using my entire screen.

The first 3rd party app that comes out fixing this MC blunder I'm all over it.

BornToMac
Aug 11, 2011, 08:17 PM
The first 3rd party app that comes out fixing this MC blunder I'm all over it.

Let me know if you find it... I'm right there with you.

professorjay
Aug 11, 2011, 10:18 PM
What else can I say that hasn't already been said?

Well maybe one thing. I actually like that they group similar apps together. I find it more useful than a scatter shot of all apps in a space. I can narrow down which window I'm looking for quicker. But I wish you could click or hover over the group app icon and it would expand the stack.

But I can also see why others would want everything visible (no stacks of windows) for reasons stated previously in this thread.

mrblack927
Aug 19, 2011, 04:46 PM
I think the most disheartening thing of all to read is that the good people behind hyperspaces are abandoning the project and "welcoming the new mission control in Lion". I didn't expect Apple to hear our cries but I was really hoping hyperspaces would develop into a standalone 3rd party replacement. Then maybe if enough people bought that and installed it over MC just to undo Apple's wretched mess, maybe they would get the hint and realize MC really was a bad idea.

Chase R
Aug 19, 2011, 04:54 PM
Lion makes having an external monitor essentially useless. You can't even full screen Quicktime X to it!... it just hops over to a new space on the Mac's screen.

Steve's Barber
Aug 19, 2011, 05:12 PM
I think the most disheartening thing of all to read is that the good people behind hyperspaces are abandoning the project and "welcoming the new mission control in Lion".Timing is everything. if any 3rd Party is going to come to the rescue with a Spaces/Expose' replacement they had better do it quick. Soon this will all fall on deaf ears. :(

handel30
Aug 20, 2011, 02:11 AM
Because I purchased my first apple notebook (since my 1999 iBook) only a couple of weeks before Lion came out, I never really had time to get attached to Snow Leopard. I like Mission Control and make use of it all the time. But I would like to see: the ability to more greatly magnify the space thumbnails across the top of the MC screen. After several spaces, they get too small to really see what app is on each of them. Just as you can adjust dock magnification, I'd like to see the same for the MC thumbnails. I would also like to see the ability to move the thumbnails around, although I've been able to make great use of the "automatically rearrange spaces based on most recent use" option. And of course it would be icing on the cake if Apple brought back the ability to see ALL your open windows in a grid pattern.

kemo
Aug 25, 2011, 10:15 AM
Timing is everything. if any 3rd Party is going to come to the rescue with a Spaces/Expose' replacement they had better do it quick. Soon this will all fall on deaf ears. :(

The only reason why I didnt downgraded to Snow Leopard is that Im really busy at work atm, however once Ill have some free time, Im back on SL, since the Expose/Spaces change isnt the only 'problem' Im having with Lion :S

also http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1215716 is my problem and since Im working as a developer and mostly spending my time in Textmate its driving me nuts when I get this error and get logged out and I have not saved changes.


I would even pay for such an app to get back the SL expose/Spaces like feature!

For me is Lion like Vista for windows.. I really like apples products for many reasons but I have to say that - Apple IMHO you screwed this OS release...

flagstone
Aug 30, 2011, 02:38 PM
I found this thread when wondering what the hell happened to spaces after I "upgraded" to Lion. What a POS. Spaces is one big part of why I started using OSX. It's a huge part of my workflow. Thankfully, for the most part, I end up mostly using only iterm which has the option of not using the Lion-style full-screen mode. And my keyboard shortcuts as before can be used.

It would be very helpful if the desktops could be assigned shortcuts and fullscreen apps could actually be assigned to a particular desktop.

Archbishop
Aug 30, 2011, 07:24 PM
Hi,

For years (with Snow Leopard), I have been using two monitors at home and just one when I'm away. I use to run some applications on the secondary display (iTunes, ...) while some others on the primary. Applications remember where they were opened, so when I'm working with only one monitor there is NO WAY to "see" their windows.

With Snow Leopard, this wasn't an issue because hitting the Spaces/Exposé key, I had a COMPLETE view of ALL my opened applications (regardless where they were opened) on the MAIN screen, so whenever I need to "see" an application window running on the alternate display I could drag it back to the main screen.

Lion has changed that behaviour, and now it seems that when only one monitor is attached there is NO WAY to bring an application window back to the main screen because Mission Control only shows all the "spaces" on your screen, but no the spaces on the alternate (they are shown on the alternate/missing monitor).

Obviously this is very frustrating as I'm using dual screen at home but single screen anywhere else, so when I'm away I'm unable to run (to see) any application "assigned" to the alternate monitor.

Any ideas? Please advise.

hayesk
Aug 30, 2011, 07:29 PM
Archbishop, I don't follow. When i'm not connected to the second display, all my windows move back to the main monitor, and Mission Control then displays all of them.

Archbishop
Aug 30, 2011, 08:36 PM
Archbishop, I don't follow. When i'm not connected to the second display, all my windows move back to the main monitor, and Mission Control then displays all of them.

I'm keeping/simulating the "presence" of the alternate monitor (even when when I'm away) to keep my desired application layout. You are right, unpluging the secondary monitor all the applications set back to the main screen but also they lose their position, ie, I have to move them back to the alternate when I'm back home.

So the question remain the same, using Lion, is there any way to see ALL the opened application windows (regardless in which monitor they are running) on the main screen?

TIA

BlackMangoTree
Aug 30, 2011, 11:41 PM
Spaces is making a comeback in 10.9

hayesk
Sep 1, 2011, 08:14 PM
I'm keeping/simulating the "presence" of the alternate monitor (even when when I'm away) to keep my desired application layout.

how do you simulate the presence of the alternate monitor. I'd be interested in doing that.

hehe299792458
Sep 2, 2011, 05:08 PM
how do you simulate the presence of the alternate monitor. I'd be interested in doing that.

Leaving the VGA or DVI adapter in the displayport does that.

jbalson
Sep 2, 2011, 08:38 PM
I'm with you on this. I hate how Spaces or "Desktops" work in Lion. It's lame, it's pointless, and I loved the way you can use four arrows to navigate non-linearly between spaces in SL and Leopard. Apple should NOT change this, it's perfect. Dammit! I also love Overview mode, when you can just see all your spaces and drag windows from one to the other easily. And you can also do an Exposé in that view, so there is no need for Mission Control, as this allows you to see everything. Also, you can see everything the way it is, all at once, and not by clicking through your stupid Desktops icon by icon.

I hate how Spaces work in Lion as well. So much so that one I have figured out how to remove Lion from my laptop, I will go back to using Snow Leopard.

How do I remove Lion anyway? I've heard it can be done, and I willl do it.

Jim

Oberhorst
Oct 29, 2011, 08:27 AM
In 10.7.2, you can rearrange your desktops in Mission Control now (except desktop 1). You also can switch through your desktopts with ctrl + arrows but I think that was possible before already.
I'm still missing a rotation feature so I can swipe from my last desktop directly to my first one like it was possible in 10.6. And neither is it possible yet to arrange your desktops in a grid (e.g. 2x2).
Maybe there's an App for that? I really miss the rotation function. I always used three spaces in a row, able to reach any space from any space with just one swipe.

jarome
Oct 30, 2011, 08:07 AM
Reordering desktops is not the issue. It is rearranging the apps from desktop to desktop if they are not in the main desktop in Mission Control.
Reordering desktops is a useless operation, and one that would screw things up actually. I remember that application X is on desktop Y.

backspaces
Nov 2, 2011, 11:19 PM
Lion has keyboard shortcuts for going "right" or "left", or to space/desktop n.

I want a *single* key-cmd that will *cycle* through the spaces, wrapping around when at the last space.

This was the "switch between spaces" shortcut in the Expose/Spaces Systems Preference panel in Snow Leopard.

Does anyone here know if there are AppleScript events, or bash commands for managing the spaces? For example, enquire what space number I'm currently in and go to the next space mod #spaces?

(God I hate AppleScript, but I'll learn enough to get Keyboard Maestro to let me cycle through my spaces if I need to! Is there a directory of apple events for Lion somewhere?)

-- Owen

Humpidge
Nov 15, 2011, 07:15 PM
Sorry to see that I am not the only one suffering with this change to Spaces under lion. Anyone yet found a fix? Original post to Apple:

Very Disappointed by the new interface with expose/spaces under Lion 10.7.2 to which I just upgraded. The new presentation of the multiple desktops is no where near as useful as it was under Snow Leopard. Under SL, was able to swipe hot corners to expose then spaces--th:eek:e resulting desktop images shown in the matrix showed all the apps on the desktop with their current names, and, if very tight, I could hover over the app images and spaces would tell me what it was. Very useful for managing the desktops. Also was much easier to transfer windows from one desktop to another as they were all visible and accessible without actually opening the individual desktops. Lion presentation, while "pretty" is much less functional and takes 8x the effort to utilize.

sdsykes
Nov 20, 2011, 07:04 AM
Those of you who miss the grid layout may be interested in my app:

https://github.com/sdsykes/Change-Space

Download here:

https://github.com/sdsykes/Change-Space/downloads

Also I wrote a bit about development of it here:

http://pennysmalls.com/change-space-grows-up

Damers
Nov 20, 2011, 10:08 AM
Any ideas? Please advise.

When your away, click 'Detect Displays' in system preference -> displays and your laptop will recognize you no longer have a second monitor plugged in. All app windows that were on the secondary monitor will show up in the main display. Crisis averted.

Simplicated
Nov 20, 2011, 11:09 AM
Those of you who miss the grid layout may be interested in my app:

https://github.com/sdsykes/Change-Space

Download here:

https://github.com/sdsykes/Change-Space/downloads

Also I wrote a bit about development of it here:

http://pennysmalls.com/change-space-grows-up

SUPER!!!!! Thank you so much!!!! This saved my productivity! Mind if I ask for an Exposé resurrection, too, please? :o

Abstract
Nov 28, 2011, 07:07 PM
Exposé and Spaces worked so well when they were separate. :o Mission Control just isn't as productive, and there isn't any benefit to the user that I can see. :confused: There are fewer ways to use it.

I don't mind if Apple makes massive changes. I can learn the new way of doing something, and just adapt to it. In fact, I usually like the "Apple" way of doing things. However, this change was unnecessary, and makes several of my most frequently used features of OS X less functional. Mission Control isn't necessary, and it was better the way it was before.

Things I really miss:

1. Ability to call up Spaces, then use a hot corner to call up Exposé while in Spaces. All Spaces are visible, and all the apps on each desktop are "Exposéd".

2. I call up Exposé to see which windows I have open, not which app I have open!!!! This is KILLING productivity. I know there's a feature named "App Exposé", but it isn't as useful.


I guess I could Google/Bing for ways to get rid of 10.7 on my 2011 MBA and install 10.6. :rolleyes:

WSR
Nov 28, 2011, 07:54 PM
Exposé and Spaces worked so well when they were separate. :o Mission Control just isn't as productive, and there isn't any benefit to the user that I can see. :confused: There are fewer ways to use it.

I don't mind if Apple makes massive changes. I can learn the new way of doing something, and just adapt to it. In fact, I usually like the "Apple" way of doing things. However, this change was unnecessary, and makes several of my most frequently used features of OS X less functional. Mission Control isn't necessary, and it was better the way it was before.

Things I really miss:

1. Ability to call up Spaces, then use a hot corner to call up Exposé while in Spaces. All Spaces are visible, and all the apps on each desktop are "Exposéd".

2. I call up Exposé to see which windows I have open, not which app I have open!!!! This is KILLING productivity. I know there's a feature named "App Exposé", but it isn't as useful.


I guess I could Google/Bing for ways to get rid of 10.7 on my 2011 MBA and install 10.6. :rolleyes:

I agree. I even put Expose and Spaces as extra buttons on my mouse so that I can see every window in every Space, without them overlaying each other, with just 2 mouse button presses.

I know some who didn't use SL's Spaces/Expose say that Mission Control "makes sense", but I have to wonder if they went back to SL if they would find that SL's Spaces/Expose can do everything Mission Control can do only better.

KQ9
Dec 26, 2011, 04:05 PM
I can whine all day and about this garbage in Lion. I tried Lion in its official 10.7 back in July I think, went back to SL in a few days because of that garbage I refuse to call an upgrade.

What's that? Apple first makes a giant iPod and calls it iPad, now they figured heey whats better than a giant iPod? i know! A giant iPad! Let's make everyones Macs turn into giant iPads!
For ffs computers arent supposed to be tiny 10inch screens where you open everything fullscreen and swipe switch between them -_-

Spaces, the biggest desktop advancement and productivity of *nix based systems is now thrown out the door.

My Snow Leopard setup with actual Spaces is a 3 column by 2 rows. Why all these spaces? Oh using 2 monitors, and planning to upgrade to three.
Space 1 has my media apps and social/typical browsing.
Space 2 has my Mail and Calendar, making contact apps.
Space 3 has my GTD apps, Things/Evernote/etc.
Space 4, 5, 6 serve a specific project, usually one space would hold my school work, one space would hold freelance work, and one would hold my studying project.
And usually each space has a window of Chrome open on the secondary monitor.
OH not to mention the Space + Expose combo to see EVERY single window open, and if its too small, just tap Space bar and the highlighted window zooms in in actual size. What more can I ask for?

So you can imagine how many apps I have open at once. Right now I have 17 apps up and running across all spaces. Not to mention how many windows of each app(like Chrome, Finder, Transmit). I never have to worry about too many apps running and clouding my productivity and if I wanted to see everything, its a matter of two hot corners single handed-ly done with the mouse. I bet if I had the same amount of apps running on Lion I wouldn't be able to make heads or tails from my Mac.

Everything was perfect, life on a Mac made the most perfect sense, I would live with it for 10days uptime or something, all spaces had their designated jobs, I get into a space and the distractions of other things fade off, switching between projects and tasks was so easy I never wanted to use a Windows again.

I guess they figured with the resume and all people will close their apps and open them again everytime they needed them, WRONG.

it's time for a hardware upgrade and I'm pretty much debating my stay with Macs since the future looks like that while the future of Windows which is Windows 8 looking better than ever, with good multi-monitor control.

Please, if anyone finds any fixes to this annoying downgrade "Mission Control", post up! I still want to use my BBEdit, CSSEdit, and proper multi-window productivity.

Oh and how about the mess-up in gestures? My most used gesture of Back and Forth 3 finger swipe is broken to utter annoyance?! Did apps catch up yet? I tried to force-fully use Snow Leopards swipes with BetterTouchTool. Oh and gesture wise, SL+BetterTouchTool is > Lion any day.

Phechs
Jan 11, 2012, 09:49 PM
I moved back to SL, mission control was just too much of a productivity hinderance. Spaces and Expose from 10.6 allow me to be FAR more productive. I have a dual monitor setup, with around 10-20 apps running at any given time. Maybe a kickstarter project might get a solution to this produced. If only we could mix Witch & ChangeSpace(from penny smalls), we'd be very close to an iLion solution. Hmm, maybe i should begin looking to KDE/Unity/gnome/mind/ubuntu if 10.8 is going to go moreso in the iOS direction. At least windows8 provides the classic file explorer in addition to the tiles interface.

meagain
Jan 19, 2012, 09:58 AM
All I want is for MC to show what Desktop my Safari Windows are in. How could this be so hard? I have 4-5 desktops each with their own category. I can't see what's in each damn desktop.

When I "show all windows" - put them in a grid per Desktop or at least Label them. They're not even in any semblance of order… I.e.' Desktop 1's windows, followed by 2. They're all strewn.

I'd be happy if a darned number appeared over the window 'icon' or in front of the URL or in lieu-of.

Giltai
Oct 31, 2012, 01:54 PM
I think apple feels this has died down now and has gone away and we will all just upgrade in time. What it's done for me is taken my addiction for apple products away and opened my eyes to other products out there from phones, iPads to PC's. it's not only loosing spaces which could have been easily made an option to appease dedicated uses of it, it's the arrogant stance they have taken in believing they no best and we will come around. They started out looking after the detail with there products but have lost there way I feel. I've waited for each update to see if its been addressed and now I'm looking to upgrade my laptop, in the past it would have been the latest model not even bothering to look at others. But now I'll spec out everything and have a good look at windows 8.

WSR
Nov 1, 2012, 11:52 PM
I agree. Apple seems to be dropping the ball more lately.

I've got a 2007 iMac that's showing it's age, but I use Spaces extensively. So I'm not changing anytime soon.