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lars666
Feb 26, 2011, 01:20 PM
Hi everybody,

before I start: I'll mabye get flamed for my following question by the real developers in this forum - so please let me assure you: It only is an honest question. I just ask because I really wanna know. I didn't make up my mind already, that's why I'd appreciate your comment.

Here we go: As an Apple user and tech nerd, I'm always interested in trying out the latest software for Mac and iOS devices. Lion OSX currently is in the main focus, of course, However, I am NOT a developer or something like that. After Apples release of the first Lion build I now ask myself (once again): Should/Could I sign up to the Apple developer program to have the chance to try out new Apple software before release date? I think I would be willing to pay 99 dollars a year for this. I KNOW of course that these builds are software in an early stadium so I DON'T expect full working or even perfect software without bugs and I WON'T blame anyone if something works wrong cause I know that this is pre-released software. However, my decision would be easier if there comes an easy option with the pre-release-build to revert all changes and recreate the system like it was before (I think I've heard about this option in the Developer builds before - is this possible?) Otherwise, I could always reinstall the system again with my Time Machine backup, of course - which would make me a bit less ambitious to try out the pre-releases, but I would still think about it ...

So, what you do think? Would you support my thoughts about signing up as an developer under these circumstances (see above) or woud your answer be the standard "Don't do it, it's only for real Developers and too complicated/dangerous ..." (which I would accept and understand - again: I haven't ignorantly made my mind already, that's why I ask. I even never downloaded beta software from torrent sites or something like that ...)

Thanks in advance for your time and help.



ct2k7
Feb 26, 2011, 01:26 PM
There is no backward motion once you've upgraded. You'd need to restore from Time Machine.

There are a few annoying bugs, and a few critical issues with Lion, well critical for a production environment.

It is your call whether you purchase the program for access to the builds or not.

I think you should only think of doing something when you are comfortable with the situation, however, you can't learn without making mistakes :cool:

saving107
Feb 26, 2011, 01:29 PM
Though these betas are meant for actual developers, Apple doesn't require you to show credentials when you sign up for the program, so essentially anyone who is willing to pay $99/yr can download Mac OS X Lion now.

Should you, thats up to you
Can you, Yes, no one is stopping you.

lars666
Feb 26, 2011, 01:35 PM
There is no backward motion once you've upgraded. You'd need to restore from Time Machine.

There are a few annoying bugs, and a few critical issues with Lion, well critical for a production environment.

It is your call whether you purchase the program for access to the builds or not.

I think you should only think of doing something when you are comfortable with the situation, however, you can't learn without making mistakes :cool:

Hi ct2k7,

thanks for your answer. Interesting and good to know that this "revert" feature I thought of doesn't exist. Time Machine will help, but you're totally right - it probably isn't very smart to try out the Lion preview on the main computer/partition if you need to be productive with it and don't have the time to re-install in case something goes wrong. Still interesting to try out on a second Mac or another boot partition ...

Though these betas are meant for actual developers, Apple doesn't require you to show credentials when you sign up for the program, so essentially anyone who is willing to pay $99/yr can download Mac OS X Lion now.

Should you, thats up to you
Can you, Yes, no one is stopping you.

Hi saving107,

thanks for the info. Yeah, I thought so that there will be no problems to sign up. I really asked because I am open minded enough to think twice if somebody gives me good reasons not to to so ...

kainjow
Feb 26, 2011, 02:16 PM
As with almost all OS releases, unless you really are a developer and are seriously interested in the direction OS X is moving technically, the novelty of the new features wears off fairly quickly (at least for me). Fortunately I get access to it through work so I don't worry about it financially, but I believe you'll get the final build once Lion is released this summer, so you shouldn't have to pay twice.

If you have $99 to blow to test out the purdy new features and deal with bugs go for it.

lars666
Feb 26, 2011, 03:09 PM
As with almost all OS releases, unless you really are a developer and are seriously interested in the direction OS X is moving technically, the novelty of the new features wears off fairly quickly (at least for me). Fortunately I get access to it through work so I don't worry about it financially, but I believe you'll get the final build once Lion is released this summer, so you shouldn't have to pay twice.

If you have $99 to blow to test out the purdy new features and deal with bugs go for it.

Hi kainjow,

thanks for your answer - that's an interesting info: Can you really continue using the "Golden Master" after the official release? And will it update like the official version? If yes, and assuming that Lion will cost 129 dollars again, you would even get it cheaper in the end ...?

kainjow
Feb 26, 2011, 03:17 PM
Assuming they'll continue to do what they've done in the past, it'll be the same build as the retail version. I don't know legally whether you're allowed to use it after your account expires but I'd assume yes and haven't heard anything other.

I'd be very surprised if they charge $129 for it after SL's $29 upgrade. Most likely it'll be cheap again.

lars666
Feb 26, 2011, 03:24 PM
Assuming they'll continue to do what they've done in the past, it'll be the same build as the retail version. I don't know legally whether you're allowed to use it after your account expires but I'd assume yes and haven't heard anything other.

I'd be very surprised if they charge $129 for it after SL's $29 upgrade. Most likely it'll be cheap again.

Thanks again for the answer. Not sure about the price tag however - it will depend of how much Apple values the new features of Lion. Snow Leopard was cheap because the differences to Leopard where almost only "under the hood". We'll have to wait and see what their price strategy on Lion will be ...

Tazjin
Feb 26, 2011, 04:19 PM
Regarding the option to revert: Why don't you just install Lion on a second partition on your harddrive?

I did that and it worked flawlessly on 2 MacBook Pros, gave ~80GB to Lion and thats pretty much enough.

lars666
Feb 26, 2011, 04:54 PM
Regarding the option to revert: Why don't you just install Lion on a second partition on your harddrive?

I did that and it worked flawlessly on 2 MacBook Pros, gave ~80GB to Lion and thats pretty much enough.

Hi Tazjin,

that's definitely an opinion to consider - probably will do so if I really sign up to the Developer program.

Michaelgtrusa
Feb 27, 2011, 05:01 AM
Regarding the option to revert: Why don't you just install Lion on a second partition on your harddrive?

I did that and it worked flawlessly on 2 MacBook Pros, gave ~80GB to Lion and thats pretty much enough.




Why would you need 80 gigs? for all you're apps?

Steve Ballmer
Feb 27, 2011, 05:09 AM
Subscribing to ADC is much like subscribing to TechNet... Anyone can subscribe to it and in exchange for the annual fee, you get access to golden masters as soon as they are ready, as opposed to having to wait for the DVDs to show up at a store.

In addition to all the Lion developer previews, you will get access to the GM of Lion once it's available this summer. You can also download WWDC videos, Xcode, various SDKs and Snow Leopard and Snow Leopard Server.

If you're into beta software, are a legitimate developer or are looking to burn $99, then ADC would probably be good for you.

mmendoza27
Feb 27, 2011, 09:55 AM
Here we go: As an Apple user and tech nerd, I'm always interested in trying out the latest software for Mac and iOS devices. Lion OSX currently is in the main focus, of course, However, I am NOT a developer or something like that. After Apples release of the first Lion build I now ask myself (once again): Should/Could I sign up to the Apple developer program to have the chance to try out new Apple software before release date? I think I would be willing to pay 99 dollars a year for this. I KNOW of course that these builds are software in an early stadium so I DON'T expect full working or even perfect software without bugs and I WON'T blame anyone if something works wrong cause I know that this is pre-released software. However, my decision would be easier if there comes an easy option with the pre-release-build to revert all changes and recreate the system like it was before (I think I've heard about this option in the Developer builds before - is this possible?) Otherwise, I could always reinstall the system again with my Time Machine backup, of course - which would make me a bit less ambitious to try out the pre-releases, but I would still think about it ...

So, what you do think? Would you support my thoughts about signing up as an developer under these circumstances (see above) or woud your answer be the standard "Don't do it, it's only for real Developers and too complicated/dangerous ..." (which I would accept and understand - again: I haven't ignorantly made my mind already, that's why I ask. I even never downloaded beta software from torrent sites or something like that ...)

If you have no interest in ever developing for the Mac OS platform, then it's not really worth it. There are a lot of features like WWDC videos, ability to sell your apps, the latest versions of Xcode and builds of future versions of Mac OS X. However, very rarely do you actually get to try "new" features with new builds of 10.6.6 or 10.6.7.

Can you do it? Sure, that's up to you, but you are paying $99 for "beta" software that you can continue to use for a couple of months. Let's say 6 or 7, so that's ~$17 a month for it. Up to you.

It's cool to play around with, but it can be filled with frustration as things don't always work as intended. It's cool to have on a separate partition, but I still keep my Snow Leopard OS handy for real work.

lars666
Feb 27, 2011, 03:10 PM
If you have no interest in ever developing for the Mac OS platform, then it's not really worth it. There are a lot of features like WWDC videos, ability to sell your apps, the latest versions of Xcode and builds of future versions of Mac OS X. However, very rarely do you actually get to try "new" features with new builds of 10.6.6 or 10.6.7.

Can you do it? Sure, that's up to you, but you are paying $99 for "beta" software that you can continue to use for a couple of months. Let's say 6 or 7, so that's ~$17 a month for it. Up to you.

It's cool to play around with, but it can be filled with frustration as things don't always work as intended. It's cool to have on a separate partition, but I still keep my Snow Leopard OS handy for real work.

I totally understand your arguments ... Especially your last sentence. If I really try Lion out, keeping a working Snow Leopard system with no bad surprises would be a high priority for me! (as I depend on my computer for work) Would only - now that I've learned that there is no "revert" option within the beta - install it on a second partition or drive.

MikeLord
Feb 27, 2011, 04:00 PM
I don't have much to add to the topic, but I do want to note how refreshing it is to see an adult conversation around here.

I pay $99 for the iOS Dev account, and just yesterday paid another $99 for the OS X Dev account. Both just to play with the betas.

The only drawback I see, is that you tend to spoil your enjoyment of the new release. I think anticipation is the better part of life. Kind of like opening all your presents on Christmas Eve. What's left for Christmas morning?