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epomqo
Feb 28, 2011, 03:45 AM
Dear all,

I know this might be a sensitive question, but I am just wondering what's the answer:

You might download Lion from somewhere without being an Apple developer. Can I say that those copies are illegal? Or there is no copyright problem if you just want to experience it at your own risk?

If it's illegal, what's the difference between Lion and other stuff you could get from some torrent sites? I assume most of the stuff there can be considered as legal downloads, no?

Many thanks for clarifying my confusions.

Xiaowen



mrblack927
Feb 28, 2011, 08:20 AM
You can get it from here: http://developer.apple.com/programs/start/standard/

tourada
Feb 28, 2011, 08:25 AM
I'll quote Apple for you:

"Warning: Pre–release software is Apple confidential information. Your unauthorized distribution of pre–release software or disclosure of information relating to pre–release software (including the posting of screen shots) may subject you to both civil and criminal liability and result in immediate termination of your ADC Membership."

I think that sums it up....downloading lion w/out being a paid member of mac developer program is illegal. Even if you were not the one leaking copies, your participation in it constitutes a breach in the member agreement. You could legally be held responsible should apple choose to pursue those who are downloading illegally. Either pay $99 to become a member or wait until it releases in the summer

stainlessliquid
Feb 28, 2011, 11:42 AM
Its as illegal as going 3mph over the posted speed limit. Its up to your personal discretion to decide which laws you want to break. All the holier than thou people saying you shouldnt do anything illegal do illegal things themselves, everybody breaks the law, its up to you to decide if the law youre breaking is hurting anything.

Steve Ballmer
Feb 28, 2011, 11:54 AM
If you have to ask where to get it, you probably shouldn't be running it.

axu539
Feb 28, 2011, 11:58 AM
Dear all,

I know this might be a sensitive question, but I am just wondering what's the answer:

You might download Lion from somewhere without being an Apple developer. Can I say that those copies are illegal? Or there is no copyright problem if you just want to experience it at your own risk?

If it's illegal, what's the difference between Lion and other stuff you could get from some torrent sites? I assume most of the stuff there can be considered as legal downloads, no?

Many thanks for clarifying my confusions.

Xiaowen

While torrents have many legal applications, generally 99% of all torrents available are illegal. If you get caught, you can be charged criminally.

Sky Blue
Feb 28, 2011, 11:59 AM
If you have to ask where to get it, you probably shouldn't be running it.

Exactly.

Altough, I'd expand to: "If you have to ask where to get it and how to install it, you probably shouldn't be running it."

tourada
Feb 28, 2011, 12:10 PM
Awesome. Yes, torrent site, though useful, are questionably legal at best in the United States. So, if I were you, I would play it safe and download legally. I am sure apple is monitoring Lion's release and especially on torrent sites. I would hate to face the collective wrath of Apple coming down on me!

epomqo
Feb 28, 2011, 02:14 PM
Well, thanks a lot for clarifying this. Now I am quite clear.

Probably this thread can be locked or deleted as well :)

antmarobel
Feb 28, 2011, 02:25 PM
Strange as it might be I disagree with some posts here. I had my first contact with mac world through a complete and "mad" pirate Hackintosh, a Tiger running in an old Pentium 4 Gygabite motherboard PC in 2007. It was love at first time. That illegal decision made me buy my first iMac, a 20" in early 2008. In january 2009 a sold it and bought a 24'' which I gave to my wife later 2010 just to by the one I have today, a 27 i5. Another example. I had my first contact with the application MY LIVING DESKTOP in 2008. I run it cracked for almost one year. But suddenly I've started to think: if I really love this amazing application why I don't pay for it? I been buying it since 2009! Three days ago I've download Lion through Demonoid. Guess what!!! Yesterday I made my register on Apple Developer Program ( Mac OS )! So...this thing called piracy is too much relative, at least for me.

mrblack927
Feb 28, 2011, 03:06 PM
Strange as it might be I disagree with some posts here. I had my first contact with mac world through a complete and "mad" pirate Hackintosh, a Tiger running in an old Pentium 4 Gygabite motherboard PC in 2007. It was love at first time. That illegal decision made me buy my first iMac, a 20" in early 2008. In january 2009 a sold it and bought a 24'' which I gave to my wife later 2010 just to by the one I have today, a 27 i5. Another example. I had my first contact with the application MY LIVING DESKTOP in 2008. I run it cracked for almost one year. But suddenly I've started to think: if I really love this amazing application why I don't pay for it? I been buying it since 2009! Three days ago I've download Lion through Demonoid. Guess what!!! Yesterday I made my register on Apple Developer Program ( Mac OS )! So...this thing called piracy is too much relative, at least for me.

You're arguing the ethical, not the legal. The law is quite clear. What you did was illegal. Even if it leads to you paying for a copy, even if you buy 100 copies, it's still against the law because it's a breach of the software developer's terms. If a software developer thinks that they will get more users with free trials, ad-supported, or even donation-supported pricing models, it is their right to do so. But if they decide to go with a pure fee model, it's their right to do that as well. Ultimately it is their choice though. It's not up to you. If you never did any of those things and you never became an apple customer, then that's their problem, not yours. You're not allowed to break the law because you think you know what's best for them.

tourada
Feb 28, 2011, 03:13 PM
You're arguing the ethical, not the legal. The law is quite clear. What you did was illegal. Even if it leads to you paying for a copy, even if you buy 100 copies, it's still against the law because it's a breach of the software developer's terms. If a software developer thinks that they will get more users with free trials, ad-supported, or even donation-supported pricing models, it is their right to do so. But if they decide to go with a pure fee model, it's their right to do that as well. Ultimately it is their choice though. It's not up to you. If you never did any of those things and you never became an apple customer, then that's their problem, not yours. You're not allowed to break the law because you think you know what's best for them.

Agreed. I find that most that are downloading the pirated lion are arguing the ethical standpoint not the legal. Funny though, the ones that probably understand the purpose of the NDA (those that paid) are probably the ones that are using Lion for its main purpose right now: testing.