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View Full Version : Will you be using the new reverse scrolling full-time?




mrblack927
Mar 3, 2011, 10:08 PM
Now that people have had a few days to "get used to it", how many of you are going to stick with the new reverse scrolling (Lion style), and how many will you revert to normal (Snow Leopard style)?



Galaxas0
Mar 3, 2011, 10:09 PM
Never going back to SL, baby. Lion is the greatest rendition of Mac (and for that matter, the best OS yet).

mrblack927
Mar 3, 2011, 10:18 PM
Never going back to SL, baby. Lion is the greatest rendition of Mac (and for that matter, the best OS yet).

I tend to agree but I'm concerned about other people who use my laptop. A lot of times other people use my computer to quickly look something up or show me something. These aren't mac people, but for the most part the macbook pro is (was) similar enough that there's no confusion. I feel like this is a big step away from that philosophy. Now I'm going to have to explain why "scrolling is reversed" to everybody the first time they use it. There's more of a learning curve now...

I understand completely why Apple chose the implement this. Technically, this is the "correct" way to scroll, as evidenced by other multitouch devices. However, I think there is something to be said for an overwhelmingly common standard. For example, it's been shown that DVORAK is statistically more efficient than QWERTY for a keyboard layout, but would you really want your new macbook to use DVORAK? Especially if you had to keep switching back and forth between that and QWERTY when you use computers at school/work/etc. I love the new scrolling in Lion, but already I'm can feel myself having to adjust every time I go to work and do work on PCs. I'm not sure which mode I should stick with... that's partly why I made this poll. ;)

Steve Ballmer
Mar 3, 2011, 11:18 PM
As I posted in a similar thread, I'm using traditional scrolling because it makes more sense when indirectly manipulating the screen. iOS-style scrolling works with the iPhone because I'm literally touching the screen and thus the page. But with a computer, I'm touching a mouse or trackpad, not the screen.

Gnuff
Mar 4, 2011, 06:37 AM
Reverse scrolling makes perfect sense on a computer not only on mobile devices. Apple especially, tries to emulate the world og the use of logic as much as possible. Thats why we have the trash bin, desktop etc. So when you are i.e. reading a document (piece of paper with writing on it), the logical way would be to move it, like we do now on the iPhone and iPad.

We are all used to the old way of manipulating the scrollbar, because there was no scroll wheel on the mouse before. But in this day and age we have no use for the scroll bar, except to see how far down or up we are in a document or webpage. So lets not get stuck in a way of doing stuff just because thats the way we have been doing it before. Lets choose the logical path.

baryon
Mar 4, 2011, 06:59 AM
I still laugh at people who use a Windows laptop and point to the scroll bar with one hand, click it with the other, and then move the scrollbar downwards or upwards. Then when they're done, they move the mouse back to where it was, and then repeat each time they want to scroll. When I tell them that on a Mac you can just use two fingers, they're like "that doesn't make sense, I refuse to do that!" and keep clicking the scroll bar. When the scroll bars will disappear, these people will be unable to use computers altogether!

I'm sure many people will have the same kind of disagreement over up/down scrolling, but I think that reverse scrolling (Lion Default) makes more sense.

However, it bothers me that the page you scroll doesn't move at exactly the same speed as your fingers on the trackpad. Now with inertial scrolling, there is no need to make scrolling much faster than your fingers.

Jhingha
Mar 4, 2011, 07:32 AM
I didn't used it on Lion before. But i'm sure im gonna use it! just like the iDevices(Touch)

Discaciate
Mar 4, 2011, 07:44 AM
Yup...
Using it full time now.
I was really impressed by how quick my brain picked it up.
It thought it would be much more difficult to get used to it.

ajvizzgamer101
Mar 4, 2011, 08:11 AM
With a trackpad or Magic Mouse... the inverted scrolling is not that bad.

astroot
Mar 4, 2011, 08:18 AM
I tried it for about 5 minutes after I first installed Lion, then I turned it off.

Lord Appleseed
Mar 4, 2011, 09:59 AM
I tried it and i like it. I even wished i could use it on Snow Leopard too...
It's just more intuitive and compliments iOS.

Patrick946
Mar 4, 2011, 10:31 AM
My Dad is basically computer illiterate, and on the few occasions that I've helped him look up a website, his first response is to scroll the way Lion does it. He always ends up moving the page in the wrong direction, then correcting.

"Reverse scrolling" seems like the more natural way to do it. I'm sure it will be annoying for people who have been using computers for 30 years, but maybe in the long run it'll be a better choice. It'll sure be weird for people who switch to macs though.

aristobrat
Mar 4, 2011, 10:45 AM
If I spent the majority of time on a Lion system, I'd be fine with it. But I'm constantly hopping between servers and other users Windows computers, so I'm pretty sure it'd drive me crazy to reverse scroll just on Lion systems.

I like the concept, it's just not for me.

Zcott
Mar 4, 2011, 12:51 PM
Going to give it my best shot and keep it on. I switched to it on Snow Leopard using BetterTouchTool.

Steve Ballmer
Mar 4, 2011, 01:33 PM
I still laugh at people who use a Windows laptop and point to the scroll bar with one hand, click it with the other, and then move the scrollbar downwards or upwards. Then when they're done, they move the mouse back to where it was, and then repeat each time they want to scroll. When I tell them that on a Mac you can just use two fingers, they're like "that doesn't make sense, I refuse to do that!" and keep clicking the scroll bar. When the scroll bars will disappear, these people will be unable to use computers altogether!

You must hang out with senior citizens because I don't know a single person, regardless of operating system, who doesn't use a scroll ball or trackpad with scrolling zones.

Of course, the fact that you laugh at others for using the computer in the way that works best for them is quite immature, too. God forbid someone doesn't use the computer exactly the same way as you.

And I forgot to mention that two-finger scrolling is not exclusive to the Mac, nor did it even debut on it. Sony's Vaios were the first notebooks to have two-finger scrolling, as well as the "chiclet" keyboard later popularized on the MacBook.

Coheebuzz
Mar 4, 2011, 04:04 PM
I use Freehand a lot and the scrolling behaves just like it will be on Lion... and it's driving me insane daily. However i am sure it will be a different story when everything in the OS behaves like that and i don't think it will take long to get used to.

denrock
Mar 4, 2011, 05:03 PM
i think i will after i have lion on all of my macs. Right now i only have it on one for testing and i got used to the reverse scrolling pretty fast. But then when I was using my other two macs with snow leopard I kept scrolling the wrong way. So once I have leopard on all of them I'll just stick with it, but right now it's too much to switch between the two. Seriously thought, it only took me like an hour to get used to it and have it seem normal. But maybe that's because of iphone/ipad use.

baryon
Mar 4, 2011, 06:01 PM
You must hang out with senior citizens because I don't know a single person, regardless of operating system, who doesn't use a scroll ball or trackpad with scrolling zones.

Of course, the fact that you laugh at others for using the computer in the way that works best for them is quite immature, too. God forbid someone doesn't use the computer exactly the same way as you.

And I forgot to mention that two-finger scrolling is not exclusive to the Mac, nor did it even debut on it. Sony's Vaios were the first notebooks to have two-finger scrolling, as well as the "chiclet" keyboard later popularized on the MacBook.

I don't think it actually works better for them, it's just that the computer doesn't allow you to really do anything else. If your trackpad is 2 square centimeters, and your "scroll zone" never ever works, except by accident when you don't actually want to scroll, you have no other option. I say it's funny because I find it strange how PC manufacturers (not all, but many) don't give a damn about such a simple and extremely important feature.

What's strange then is when they use your Mac and they insist on using the scroll bar and dragging it to scroll. It's not their fault, it's just proof that when people get used to something, they will insist on doing it that way regardless of whether it is actually much more complicated and time-consuming than the "new way" of doing it.

This is all to say that some people may prefer non-reverse scrolling, even if it makes less sense, just because they're used to it.

antmarobel
Mar 4, 2011, 06:05 PM
Yes! I'm perfectly adapted already!:D

Steve Ballmer
Mar 4, 2011, 06:42 PM
I don't think it actually works better for them, it's just that the computer doesn't allow you to really do anything else. If your trackpad is 2 square centimeters, and your "scroll zone" never ever works, except by accident when you don't actually want to scroll, you have no other option. I say it's funny because I find it strange how PC manufacturers (not all, but many) don't give a damn about such a simple and extremely important feature.

What's strange then is when they use your Mac and they insist on using the scroll bar and dragging it to scroll. It's not their fault, it's just proof that when people get used to something, they will insist on doing it that way regardless of whether it is actually much more complicated and time-consuming than the "new way" of doing it.

This is all to say that some people may prefer non-reverse scrolling, even if it makes less sense, just because they're used to it.
I agree with you about old habits dying hard, though. And it's true that a lot of other trackpads do have poor "scroll zones," bust most newer ones that use Synaptics drivers do support two-finger scrolling or even some gestures. Like I said earlier, Apple wasn't actually the first to do two-finger scrolling, but they certainly perfected it and made it sort of a "mainstream" feature, because before, I only recall some high-end Vaio models having it.

JKK photography
Mar 4, 2011, 09:27 PM
Yes, I will.

Reverse scrolling makes perfect sense in Lion, as the scroll bars are going away and taking a backseat. Currently, in every desktop OS, the scrollbars are what you are manipulating when you use the two finger scroll. In Lion, the scroll bars simply show position in a document, and therefore you are directly manipulating the page itself.

It makes sense, when you consider the scroll bar factor.

DirtySocks85
Mar 4, 2011, 10:02 PM
I don't really like it, and it took me a while to figure out why. At first I thought I was just used to the "old way", but then even with practice it just didn't feel "right" or "intuitive" to me, and then it suddenly dawned on me: The reason I think that moving the content works great on an iOS device, but not on my MacBook's trackpad is because when my finger moves on my iPhone, the page slides with it, exactly as if I were physically dragging the page. With my MacBook, when I scroll, the cursor doesn't move with the page, so it doesn't feel like I'm "grabbing" the page and sliding it.

muffinss
Mar 5, 2011, 12:14 AM
No, I'll be using traditional scrolling. It makes more sense to me.

Scrollbar going down = page going down
Scrollbar going up = page going up

Not the other way around.

techfreak85
Mar 5, 2011, 12:48 AM
The classic way makes much more sense to me when using a scrolling device other than the screen itself.
Half the point of touch screen interaction is the dynamic sudo-physical environment. Scrolling on a touch screen is like physically pushing a piece of paper away from you. It is just hard to make that connection that you are pushing something away with a scrolling device separate from the screen.

celticpride678
Mar 5, 2011, 12:56 AM
I'm sticking with Lion's version of scrolling. It makes more sense and I'm already perfectly used to it.

Shambles
Mar 5, 2011, 04:21 AM
Just turned it on in BetterTouchTool in Snow Leopard last night and this morning it just felt so natural..

Warbrain
Mar 5, 2011, 07:27 AM
Took me a bit to get used to it but I'm using it all the time now. Seems entirely natural. Every time I have to use my work PC I get baffled when it doesn't work. I'll nee to invert scrolling on that.

Shorties
Mar 5, 2011, 09:21 AM
It took me about 2 days before I stopped scrolling the wrong direction by accident every so often, now I am fully adapted to reverse scrolling and I think it makes the most sense. I have my BT keyboard and magic trackpad just sitting over my MBP's trackpad (Leaving about 2 inches at the bottom of the computer for my wrists) and because of the angle that they sit, it actually seems very natural to move the page rather than the scrollbar. My productivity surfing the internet (HA that's an oxymoron) has gone up dramatically, especially thanks to the inertia scrolling, it's so much more comfortable to surf the web the iOS way then the traditional way.

Tmelon
Mar 5, 2011, 07:08 PM
I'm completely adapted when I'm at home... But the problem is when I go to school. Of course they don't have Lion there so I have to use normal scrolling on Windows XP. It gets confusing.

*LTD*
Mar 5, 2011, 07:21 PM
Once I got used to it I couldn't see myself going back.

I love that navigation on OS X now works like navigation on my iPhone. It's quite natural.

vultureboy
Mar 6, 2011, 10:24 AM
Perfectly adapted (in fact it came second nature to me) when using my trackpad. However, my mouse should work in the standard way. I'd love to have different toggle settings for trackpad / mouse since i use both on one system regularly.