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Power Mac G4/AGP graphics/video card upgrade?

C

canhoto

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 10, 2011
40
0
Hi.

I have a Power Mac G4 (AGP Graphics), with

512 MB RAM
500Mhz processor
10 GB IDE HD
ATY,Rage128Pro card

which I intend to upgrade on the next few days to

1,5 GB RAM
1,6 Mhz processor
160 GB HD (I know it's limited to 128GB)
PCI card with USB 2.0

I think maybe it would also benefit from upgrading the video card. I have an Asus VW192DR monitor.

I would like to ask:

- What kind of compatible card would be best (if possible with examples from different brands)?
- Is there a compatibility limitation regarding the clock speed (I think - that's what is expressed in Mhz...)? E.g., being risky for the hardware if it's a card working at more than 66 Mhz; I think I read something like that on the G4 manual, but I'm not sure.
- Are there any good cards for less than $100 (with examples, if possible)?

I'm now running 10.4.11 but I intend to upgrade to Leopard after the processor upgrade.

Thanks
 
C

canhoto

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 10, 2011
40
0
jodelli said:
I think I had a GE Force 4 worth 64 Mb in a Sawtooth a while ago. The Power Mac had a 1Ghz Sonnet CPU, 120 and 60 gig HDs, and 1 gig ram.
Click to expand...

And how did it work (resolution, video, etc.)? Do you remember?
 
doctormark77

doctormark77

macrumors member
Jul 21, 2010
41
0
Houston TX
Ive got a sawtooth with 1gb ram 1.2ghz single processor with a flashed pc geforce 5200. my resolution is 1650x1050. i have 10.4.11 on it now to run photo shop 7 but Ive had leopard on it. html5 video with safari 5 under leopard was ok. i looked on ebay and you can find them for about $65 (usd). good luck!
 
W

WGoins88

macrumors regular
Feb 8, 2011
134
0
Same here.. I have a XFX FX 5200 Ultra w/256MB video memory in my MDD, and it works great.
 
zen.state

zen.state

macrumors 68020
Mar 13, 2005
2,181
8
I have the same Mac and am very happy with the flashed XFX GeForce 6200 256MB AGP.

You can buy one and flash yourself or buy a pre-flashed for Mac 6200 on ebay. I can recommend a great ebay mac video card vendor. May as well add a card that supports all the graphic features up to 10.5. About the only cards that supports all those features and run in a Sawtooth are the GeForce 5200/6200 and Radeon 9800.
 
zen.state

zen.state

macrumors 68020
Mar 13, 2005
2,181
8
jodelli said:
Video was choppy. Screen res was set around 12X10 IIRC, on an older 15" LCD.

The 100 MHz bus was a limiter too. But it was okay for general non-intensive use.
Click to expand...

You can't just blame the bus. It's as much about CPU and GPU as bus. A 1.0GHz CPU and Geforce 4 64MB is hardly a powerful combo. No core image support and 64MB is also very low considering OS X gobbles up VRAM almost as much as system RAM.

My 1.8GHz and Geforce 6200 256MB that supports every graphic feature in OS X never seem choppy to me. I also run the screen at 1920x1200.
 
VanneDC

VanneDC

macrumors 6502a
Jun 5, 2010
860
92
Dubai, UAE
I had a 9700pro and a 9800pro. They were not that loud, yes ofcourse louder than the ambient non fan cards, but that's to be expected.

Graphics performance was good though on both those cards.
 
C

canhoto

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 10, 2011
40
0
But all this cards, do I have to look for them on special mac upgrades online shops or can I just buy one from a regular hardware shop?

Are there limitations to their use with sawtooth? For instance, can I have a 512 MB card on a sawtooth?
 
J

jrko

macrumors regular
Feb 4, 2008
125
0
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
zen.state said:
I have the same Mac and am very happy with the flashed XFX GeForce 6200 256MB AGP.

You can buy one and flash yourself or buy a pre-flashed for Mac 6200 on ebay. I can recommend a great ebay mac video card vendor. May as well add a card that supports all the graphic features up to 10.5. About the only cards that supports all those features and run in a Sawtooth are the GeForce 5200/6200 and Radeon 9800.
Click to expand...

Is it this one? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Apple-Mac-Gef...eo_TV_Cards&hash=item3a63890c98#ht_3254wt_907
 
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Lord Blackadder

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
15,669
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Sod off
canhoto said:
But all this cards, do I have to look for them on special mac upgrades online shops or can I just buy one from a regular hardware shop?
Click to expand...

You won't find any of these in a regular 'ol computer hardware store, except perhaps as a Wintel PC card. These can be flashed to Mac compatibility using a Mac ROM - most cards on ebay exist in this form, and are NOT original Mac-compatible cards. There's nothing wrong with this though, if it is done properly.

canhoto said:
Are there limitations to their use with sawtooth? For instance, can I have a 512 MB card on a sawtooth?
Click to expand...

More video memory is not always better. Frankly, I don't think a Sawtooth will gain any benefit from a 512 or even 256MB card over a 128MB card. The CPU, system bus and AGP bus are too slow. It doesn't hurt, mind you - but it doesn't necessarily make any difference. I would say that a 128 or 256MB card is the maximum you will need in a Sawtooth.

Also, The Sawtooth can't handle 4X or 8X AGP cards, only 2X. Many 4X and 8X cards can be made compatible with the 2X AGP slot by taping two of the pins on the video card to force it to run at 2X.

I suggest looking for an original Radeon 9800 PRO. The Mac Edition of the card is going to involve the least headaches and will provide very good performance for a Sawtooth. However, they will probably cost quite a bit more than a PC-compatible Radeon 9800 PRO that has been flashed, so if you can find a reputable seller of flashed 9800 PROs, that will save you money.
 
zen.state

zen.state

macrumors 68020
Mar 13, 2005
2,181
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jrko said:
Is it this one? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Apple-Mac-Gef...eo_TV_Cards&hash=item3a63890c98#ht_3254wt_907
Click to expand...

The Geforce 6200's don't work in the MDD's. Never really known why exactly but they don't. I would look for a 9800 pro from the same seller.

Either of these 2:

256MB XT (faster than the normal pro): http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mac-ATi-Radeo...ryZ80034QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

128MB Pro: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-Mac-ATI-R...ryZ80034QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
666sheep

666sheep

macrumors 68040
Dec 7, 2009
3,686
291
Poland
zen.state said:
Either of these 2:

256MB XT (faster than the normal pro): http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mac-ATi-Radeo...ryZ80034QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

128MB Pro: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-Mac-ATI-R...ryZ80034QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Click to expand...

Both cards are good, fast and worth recommending, but overall prices (inc. shipping) are horrible :eek:
I've bought recently 3 ATI FireGL X3s for less than this 9800XT costs. GL X3 can be easily flashed to X800XT and after that it's almost twice as fast as 9800XT (not to mention about Dual DVI).

Besides (IMHO), buying pre-flashed cards doesn't have a "fun factor" ;)
 
C

canhoto

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 10, 2011
40
0
zen.state said:
The Geforce 6200's don't work in the MDD's. Never really known why exactly but they don't. I would look for a 9800 pro from the same seller.
Click to expand...
But you are sure the Geforce 6200 (like this onehttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Apple-Mac-Geforce-6200-256mb-AGP-Video-G4-FANLESS-/250778029208?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item3a63890c98#ht_3254wt_907 works with Sawtooth? Because it seems to be the best choice.

Btw, my upgrade was wonderful! I have a fast computer, running 10.5.8 perfectly! It's even faster for some tasks (starting up, for instance) than my Macbook. The only thing where it is slower is with video (whatching youtube videos, for instance).

And, of course, there is this pressure of the software companies which don't support PPC or Universal anymore... but this is for a different thread.
 
zen.state

zen.state

macrumors 68020
Mar 13, 2005
2,181
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canhoto said:
But you are sure the Geforce 6200 (like this onehttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Apple-Mac-Geforce-6200-256mb-AGP-Video-G4-FANLESS-/250778029208?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item3a63890c98#ht_3254wt_907 works with Sawtooth? Because it seems to be the best choice.

Btw, my upgrade was wonderful! I have a fast computer, running 10.5.8 perfectly! It's even faster for some tasks (starting up, for instance) than my Macbook. The only thing where it is slower is with video (whatching youtube videos, for instance).

And, of course, there is this pressure of the software companies which don't support PPC or Universal anymore... but this is for a different thread.
Click to expand...

I have a 6200 in my Sawtooth. Perfect card for this model.

EDIT: For youtube use Mactubes. Set the player setting in preferences to Quicktime and you will be able to watch YT vids at half the CPU use or less. I prefer it not only for the lower CPU use but also no need to go directly to the site and look at ads and stupid comments.
 
Last edited:
zen.state

zen.state

macrumors 68020
Mar 13, 2005
2,181
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Lord Blackadder said:
IIRC, the Apple OEM Radeon 9700 PRO used a green PCB. My guess is that is a flashed card. Still a good choice for a Sawtooth though.
Click to expand...

jrko actually has an MDD. You may be right about it being flashed but it does look a lot like the Apple OEM 8500.
 
4JNA

4JNA

macrumors 68000
Feb 8, 2006
1,505
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looking for trash files
Lord Blackadder said:
IIRC, the Apple OEM Radeon 9700 PRO used a green PCB. My guess is that is a flashed card. Still a good choice for a Sawtooth though.
Click to expand...

i'd second that. green it was. the linked 'red' 9700 is also missing the 'ADC' tab at the front of the AGP connector.

there was a goofy looking little tab that went into a slot just in front of the logic board AGP slot to power the ADC. the OEM Apple cards will have it, the flashed PC cards will not.

EDIT: went looking and found a PICTURE of what i remember them looking like. i'm old. i might be wrong. or i might be wrong about being wrong. you never know.
 
Last edited:
Lord Blackadder

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
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zen.state said:
jrko actually has an MDD.
Click to expand...

Ah, my mistake. The 9700 was an OEM option for the MDD, so if the OP can find an OEM 9700 it will slot right in.

EDIT: Seems like some versions of the Mac 9700 Pro are red, and some are green...all the examples I've ever seen are green though. The red one in my link might be a pre-production model or reference board design (which used a red PCB). It was never available retail from either Apple or ATI - the only way to get one was to order an MDD with it installed - and is thus rather hard to find and expensive (like the Mac version of the GeForce 4ti).

But as 4JNA says, one way to differentiate a "real" Mac card from a flashed one is the presence of the ADC tab just in front of the regular AGP connector. Also, "real" Mac cards have one ADC port and one DVI port on the back - flashed PC cards usually have one DVI port and one VGA port, or (more rarely) some other combination of DVI and VGA ports. They never have ADC ports, since these appear only on Mac-edition cards.

Still, current wisdom is that a flashed 9800 Pro is the best card for the money.
 
C

canhoto

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 10, 2011
40
0
zen.state said:
I have a 6200 in my Sawtooth. Perfect card for this model.
Click to expand...
Sorry for insisting, but... doesn't the fact that it is a 8x card causes a compatibility problem? How did you manage it?

Also, what kind of cooling does it have, since it has no fan?
 
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