Dell CEO: Apple can't just have one product and then say th...

[MacBytes]

Category: Opinion/Interviews
Link: Dell CEO: Apple can't just have one product and then say they're the innovative leader of the world. (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20050222131015)
Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by Mudbug

[JohnHummel]

I mean, really, you can't have just one product and claim your innovative.

Take Apple:

1982: Personal computer - only one innovative product that year!
1984: Macintosh I - man, come on - a computer with a screen? How innovative is that, I mean, may as well call "Reese's Peanut Butter Cups" innovative for mixing the chocolate in the peanut butter.
1990's: iMac - a small, personal computer at a decent cost that looks good? Oh, please - where's the innovation!
1998: OS X - UNIX is 20 years old, folks - where's the innovation in making it so simple to use for computer neophytes, but powerful enough to run everything from movie editors to complex distributed programs?
2000: iPod - hah! It's just a hard drive hooked up to a speaker output! It's not like Apple invented MP3 players.
2005: iPod Shuffle and Mac Mini - yeah, like making products affordable <em>and</em> look good is innovative.

On the other hand, we have Dell, who innovated:

Making computers - nobody else made computers before Dell did! (Except for Apple, IBM, Hp, Compaq, uh - those guys at Wang, and, well, everybody else.)
MP3 player: come on, who else thought of putting the name Dell on an MP3 player?
Printers: Lexmark helped with this. Just a little.

So let's give credit where credit is due: Dell, the true innovator, helping us to remember history correctly.

Oh, and don't forget: we've always been at war with Eurasia. The Agency of History says so.

[edesignuk]

JohnHummel, is that a poor attempt at sarcasm, or are you serious? :eek:

[yellow]

I didn't think it was all that poor..

[edesignuk]

I didn't think it was all that poor..
Maybe poor was the wrong choice of words. What I mean is it sounds so convincing, and without a little ;) at the end, I don't know if they mean it :eek:

[bousozoku]

1982? I don't recall Apple doing anything tremendous that year. If you're talking about the IBM PC, it was introduced in August 1981.

As far as Apple innovating, I think there is a long list of accomplishments, some more bizarre than others.

Dell assembled computers from parts--now, that's a big deal. I think the same people who admire Microsoft admire Dell. Business-wise, Dell has done things well. They said "yes" to whatever Microsoft and Intel wanted and got the best discounts in order to squeeze the competition out of existance.

You also have to admire that they sold iPods for a while and now, think that they're awful. ;)

[stcanard]

Does anybody else find this guys pronouncements about Apple gettting more and more desperate?

It's alredy been pointed out, not only is Dell the one trick pony in this equation, but as far as I can tell every attempt they've made to expand out of low-cost PC based systems (music, TVs etc) has failed miserably.

[Dane D.]

I can't think of ONE application or piece of hardware that Dell has produced and the rest of the computer world has jumped on the bandwagon. Their claim to fame is cheap (both $ and parts) computers. Yeah boy, I want a computer that is built with the cheapest bidder parts, an OS that is more open than the southern US borders. Usually when people have to speak about how they are so valuable to the rest of us, they usually aren't. Or it is just plain envy on Dell's part that they can't produce the "next great thing".

[dsharits]

It just goes to show how these PC companies have this "reality distortion field" skewing their view. But these are the same people that accuse Steve Jobs of the same thing. Pathetic.

Daniel

[iKenny]

Oh, and Dell is so innovative. Dell may be at the top of the most admired companies list, but it's probably the same kind of admiration Bill Gates receives. No one I've spoken to thinks he's particularly smart, handsome, or kind, but by God, he's one of the richest men in the world, so he's admired. Apple receives admiration for it's products, while Dell meanwhile receives admiration for its strategies. It sounds, though, like Dell is wishing it were Apple. :rolleyes:

[dashiel]

i like the "oh we could do an ipod or playstation if we wanted to, that's just not our market" translated "i could to jump over the garbage can i just don't wanna!"

seriously that comment sounded like something a 7 year old would say when getting called on a claim.

[Savage Henry]

In fairness to the freak, it gave me the best laugh all day....and for that alone, I salute him ... (with a special number of fingers)

:)

[SiliconAddict]

I didn't think it was all that poor..


Ditto. :D

[pgwalsh]

We should gather all of Dell's negative comments about Apple and post them somewhere. Why? I dunno.. Just to have a quick reference or something to laugh at.

[dejo]

We should gather all of Dell's negative comments about Apple and post them somewhere. Why? I dunno.. Just to have a quick reference or something to laugh at.

There should be a list of Balmer-isms too, while we're at it...

[pgwalsh]

There should be a list of Balmer-isms too, while we're at it...Sounds good to me.. We'll just have 4 columns. One on Balmer-isms; one one negative apple comments; one on positive Apple comments; and one with daily stock prices.

[wrldwzrd89]

IMO, Apple's most significant innovation is putting all the GUI components they found together behind a set of standards. That is what makes the Mac OS what it is - this was true of System 1, and it's true of Mac OS X 10.3.8 (the latest version as of when this was posted) also. The article doesn't mention the GUI Apple created at all, which totally invalidates any point the article may have been trying to make for me. Dell does sound like they want to be an Apple...

[Mord]

funny, as 90% of dells product line can be traced back to apple eg:

PDA: newton
dell DJ: ipod rip
laptops: powerbook 100 first of that design
desktops: apple made the first proper personal computers
OS: windows, if you need more convinceing look here (http://www.mackido.com/Interface/ui_history.html)

[wrldwzrd89]

funny, as 90% of dells product line can be traced back to apple eg:

PDA: newton
dell DJ: ipod rip
laptops: powerbook 100 first of that design
desktops: apple made the first proper personal computers
OS: windows, if you need more convinceing look here (http://www.mackido.com/Interface/ui_history.html)
Microsoft just doesn't get it. For that matter, neither does Dell. Unlike Apple, they're both dependent on the x86 architecture. If x86 were to go away (which may very well happen considering how much baggage the x86 architecture itself carries from prior years), Microsoft and Dell as we know them now would cease to exist. They might not go out of business, but they would be completely transformed.

[pgwalsh]

Microsoft just doesn't get it. For that matter, neither does Dell. Unlike Apple, they're both dependent on the x86 architecture. If x86 were to go away (which may very well happen considering how much baggage the x86 architecture itself carries from prior years), Microsoft and Dell as we know them now would cease to exist. They might not go out of business, but they would be completely transformed.Well, I think that's being overly optomistic. x86 has been morphing over the years, so I don't know if it will disappear. Microsoft most likely will never go away and Dell will be forced to change or adapt its processes if the market leads in that direction.

However, Dell doesn't have any ground to stand on when speaking of product innovation in terms of design and quality. They're the early version of Japanese automobiles. Innovative manufacturing wich can produce inexspensive, but cheap products. The Japanese have adapted and so will Dell. My apologies for the car analogy.. I know that bugs some of you.

[dejo]

Microsoft most likely will never go away....

Oh, they will. Nothing lasts forever.

[Lacero]

With 60 billion in cash, and hundreds of billions in assets, Microsoft can buy their way into perpetuity.

[dejo]

With 60 billion in cash, and hundreds of billions in assets, Microsoft can buy their way into perpetuity.

They said the same thing about the dinosaurs... ;)

[bigandy]

They said the same thing about the dinosaurs... ;)

only thing is the dinosaurs never had the cash in the bank.... ;) :rolleyes:

[dotdotdot]

I understand there is an "apple bias" here, I even think Apple is more "innovative" than Dell - however, Dell has done a lot of things:

Broke the barrier for low cost, quality PCs. (OK, I predict at least 5 people saying thats an oxymoron: quality PCs??)

Style and substance

Have computers for everyone: sub 400 $ computers for people who just want word processing, email and IM, sub $800 for people who want a basic PC, and then $1000+ for gaming...

And thats just their computers - they do other things too...

[dotdotdot]

i like the "oh we could do an ipod or playstation if we wanted to, that's just not our market" translated "i could to jump over the garbage can i just don't wanna!"

seriously that comment sounded like something a 7 year old would say when getting called on a claim.

That is their market also! lol

Dell DJ MP3 Player is like an... iPod!

Dell XPS Portable laptop is like a... PlayStation! (Ok... stretching it)

[stcanard]

Style and substance

:confused: :confused: :confused: :eek:

Uhh, we're talking about the Dell at http://dell.com

I'm not sure which one you're talking about!

[dejo]

"You can't just have one product and then say you're the innovative leader of the world."

Is Apple or Steve saying they're the innovative leader of the world? I don't think so. They're just saying they're very innovative.

Can you have just one product and be innovative? Of course you can. Being innovative and the number of products you produce have nothing to do with each other. If it were true, how many products does it take, Mr. Rollins, to be considered innovative? Two? Three? Ten?...

[hulugu]

A Historical Guide to Innovation by Michael Dell


1. Fire. Fire! That's not innovation; lightning's been doing that for millions of years
2. The Wheel. It's a round frickin stone. That's not innovation, come on, we're doing supply-chain management...
3. The Gun. Oooohhh, it's like a bow and arrow, but not. Is that the best you can do?
4. The airplane. You Wright brothers should have stuck to bicycles, I mean birds do this. Now, we should really talk about our ability to commodize...
5. The Macintosh. I just don't get it.
6. The Odyssey, launched in 2100, first FTL starship.That name came from a movie, that's not innovation. Come on people, wake up. I mean Faster-than-light, anyone can do that. But can you sell a HAL9000 for the price of a stick-of-gum? I think not!

Michael Dell, a true paradigm shifter.

[hulugu]

I understand there is an "apple bias" here, I even think Apple is more "innovative" than Dell - however, Dell has done a lot of things:

Broke the barrier for low cost, quality PCs. (OK, I predict at least 5 people saying thats an oxymoron: quality PCs??)

Style and substance

Have computers for everyone: sub 400 $ computers for people who just want word processing, email and IM, sub $800 for people who want a basic PC, and then $1000+ for gaming...

And thats just their computers - they do other things too...

Dell is good at what they do, but this isn't something that wouldn't have been done by any other PC manufacturer by this point. Dell just beat out Compaq, HP, IBM, Gateway to the punch.

[wrldwzrd89]

Well, I think that's being overly optomistic. x86 has been morphing over the years, so I don't know if it will disappear. Microsoft most likely will never go away and Dell will be forced to change or adapt its processes if the market leads in that direction.

However, Dell doesn't have any ground to stand on when speaking of product innovation in terms of design and quality. They're the early version of Japanese automobiles. Innovative manufacturing wich can produce inexspensive, but cheap products. The Japanese have adapted and so will Dell. My apologies for the car analogy.. I know that bugs some of you.
I agree that it's overly optimistic to think that x86 will go away anytime soon...soon defined as the next 5-10 years, at least. However, x86 is getting old, and Intel will probably be forced to move away from it due to persistent heat problems eventually.

As far as Dell goes, there isn't an obvious direction for Dell to expand in, IMO. I'm sure that expanding their product portfolio will help Dell's profits, but the question is what makes the most sense to add.

[T.Rex]

JohnHummel, is that a poor attempt at sarcasm, or are you serious? :eek:

I feel sorry for you if you couldn't tell that he was being sarcastic.

[AlmostThere]

Innovative manufacturing which can produce inexspensive, but cheap products.

I agree. Like Tesco here in the UK (supermarket that takes £1 in every £8 spent in the country) you do not get to be top dog in bulk supply without making sure your business methods keep up with demands and changes of the market. Just because it is not some cool gadget, doesn't mean it isn't innovation.

Dell might make a P.O.S. music player ... but they don't take 4+ weeks to deliver a BTO computer (it is only RAM!), or even standard components (30", GeForce6800, PowerMacs anyone?) and I know that if I need the suppport, I will have someone from the company standing next to me in about 18 hours of making the call, with spare parts or a replacement.

They may be the bête noir of the Mac community but I for one wish Apple would take a leaf out of the Dell book and get some of real basics, like supply chain and delivery, right for a change. When was the last time Dell was affected by a chip or hard disk shortage? Dell cover their bases. Apple pass the buck. If what Dell do is really that 'easy', surely Apple would have it down pat by now?

Dell just beat out Compaq, HP, IBM, Gateway to the punch.

Or ... they came up with the best business methods to supply a rapidly changing market. Did Apple just beat out Creative / Dell / iRiver to the punch with the iPod? Maybe but I like to think Apple did something the other companies couldn't and certainly didn't.

Microsoft just doesn't get it. For that matter, neither does Dell. Unlike Apple, they're both dependent on the x86 architecture.

Interesting - personally I would have said that it is actually x86 architecture that is dependent on Microsoft. People will buy whatever hardware is compatible with with MS.

[iGary]

Fine, they're efficient at building low-end crap that runs a low-end crap OS.

There's nothing innovative AT ALL about Dell, except thet Steven dude. He was cool; great marketing there.

[mcgarry]

Fine, they're efficient at building low-end crap that runs a low-end crap OS.

There's nothing innovative AT ALL about Dell, except thet Steven dude. He was cool; great marketing there.

DUDE!

http://www.danmcgarry.com/dude.jpg

I'm totally innovating!

[iGary]

DUDE!

http://www.danmcgarry.com/dude.jpg

I'm totally innovating!

I totally miss that pot-smoker. :D

[rjwill246]

I agree. Like Tesco here in the UK (supermarket that takes £1 in every £8 spent in the country) you do not get to be top dog in bulk supply without making sure your business methods keep up with demands and changes of the market. Just because it is not some cool gadget, doesn't mean it isn't innovation.

Dell might make a P.O.S. music player ... but they don't take 4+ weeks to deliver a BTO computer (it is only RAM!), or even standard components (30", GeForce6800, PowerMacs anyone?) and I know that if I need the suppport, I will have someone from the company standing next to me in about 18 hours of making the call, with spare parts or a replacement.

They may be the bête noir of the Mac community but I for one wish Apple would take a leaf out of the Dell book and get some of real basics, like supply chain and delivery, right for a change.

Agreed with most of what you said except this bit. Dell makes a vast range of commodity PCs with never a hint at leading industry standards or cutting edge design. They don't do any of the sort of research that Apple does- they don't even make a world class OS ( or use one, for that matter) or any software to speak of either. Therefore, they will always have some POS PC available for some sucker, er consumer. Apple quite obviously does not do this, and when have you heard of the latest big unveiling by Michael Dell of some stunning device or software that had people immediately run up orders that could not be met? Well, name one! The difference between Dell and Apple far exceeds that of Apple's and oranges. Dell simply makes very cheap PCs, parts sourced from anywhere that will do at rock bottom prices and never has to spend a penny thinking about advancing the art. They just copy the ole Wintel stuff by the millions. It is a great business model and is the difference between being a stereotactic neurosurgeon researching the best techniques and a snake oil pedlar who just wants to sell lots and lots of cheap 'medicine.' Let us hope it can never be said of Apple that just days after a new product announcement that you could go to one of their stores and see volumes of the items on display. That would be the hallmark marking the era of their decline from excellence. Dell will never face this issue since it is foreign to them.
And while bad service may be the UK experience, have you seen how Apple is rated in the US?

[Eric5h5]

Wasn't I reading an article just the other day about how Dell thinks innovation is for losers and finds it "hilarious" that some companies spend money on R&D? And now it seems there's some jealousy, hmmm....

[macridah]

oh whatever ... dell can't even say the innovated half a product. Apple has been innovating ... Dell is just hatin'

[Chip NoVaMac]

Maybe poor was the wrong choice of words. What I mean is it sounds so convincing, and without a little ;) at the end, I don't know if they mean it :eek:

Love subtle satirical work. Makes one think more....

[Chip NoVaMac]

1982? I don't recall Apple doing anything tremendous that year. If you're talking about the IBM PC, it was introduced in August 1981.

As far as Apple innovating, I think there is a long list of accomplishments, some more bizarre than others.

Dell assembled computers from parts--now, that's a big deal. I think the same people who admire Microsoft admire Dell. Business-wise, Dell has done things well. They said "yes" to whatever Microsoft and Intel wanted and got the best discounts in order to squeeze the competition out of existance.

You also have to admire that they sold iPods for a while and now, think that they're awful. ;)

Depends on your view of innovative.

my arm chair view of Apple:

- Affordable personal computers, before most, with the Apple II, IIe, and IIc

- The first affordable computer with a easy to use graphical interface, the original Mac

- The Newton PDA

- Among the first with the digital camera, the Quicktake

I could go on, but I think you see where I am going.

Dell was able to beat Compaq at its own game. Is this innovation? In a technology sense, IMO no. From a business model, IMO yes.

[stcanard]

Depends on your view of innovative.

It's actually quite hard to come up with a list of Apple innovations, too many of them have become too commonplace, and searching only ends up with iPods, but IIRC you can also thank them for:

SCSI
ADB (which turned in USB)
Appletalk (the first networking for the masses)
ColorSync

If you include NeXT you can make an argument for the Multimedia hub.

You can also make an argument for creating the push to drop legacy interfaces and for turning computers into a fashion statement, both of which were steps where they were leading the industry.

Dell was able to beat Compaq at its own game. Is this innovation? In a technology sense, IMO no. From a business model, IMO yes.

I put Dell in the same category as Microsoft, they cannot come up with their own idea to save their respective lives, but are very good at taking other people's ideas and using unmatched business skills to outpace all others.

But it's interesting that in both cases the change of CEO (Michael Dell & Bill Gates) has resulted in a signficant loss in mindshare. We've already seen what losing Steve can do to Apple. In 20 years the computer industry is going to look very different, when all of these guys are completely out of the picture.

[adamjay]

i try not to herald a platform or company as being superior, but i will point out the inferior ones. The only thing that Dell has pioneered in this industry is crappy support.

"dude yer getting a complex"

[AmigoMac]

What the H-(D)-ell are they talking about? ...

Hello Dell...

Firewire???

I have yet to see a keynote from Dell where the people jump and yell because a computer talk to them (Mac 1984) ;)

iTunes ...

posted before... Colorsync

What the *D*-H-ell ... Pretty stupid statement ...

One more thing... The fastest personal computer in the world, anyone? :rolleyes: :)

[redAPPLE]

only thing is the dinosaurs never had the cash in the bank.... ;) :rolleyes:

because they bought dell stocks ;)

[JohnHummel]

Maybe poor was the wrong choice of words. What I mean is it sounds so convincing, and without a little ;) at the end, I don't know if they mean it :eek:

My apologies - in that case, I now add in my sarcastic smiley face: ;)

Now that I look at it, it does look like a Windows apologist being serious....

[Chip NoVaMac]

My apologies - in that case, I now add in my sarcastic smiley face: ;)

Now that I look at it, it does look like a Windows apologist being serious....

Yeah, but does the Wash Post, NY Times, or LA Times use smiley faces for good satire?

[yellow]

Yeah, but does the Wash Post, NY Times, or LA Times use smiley faces for good satire?

The NY Post should..