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Rodimus Prime
Apr 2, 2011, 10:41 AM
I like how the title of the thread says unauthorized, not illegal, tethering. I think that is because it isnt criminal.
Yet AT&T can legally bill you and require you to pay for ever bit of data you download while teathering. I believe the cost works out to be 10 bucks per meg. Tell me how would those people like being slammed at that cost.



manman
Apr 2, 2011, 10:51 AM
Sounds like your typical Barista at Starbucks.

I don't know if you should be insulting people around here, you're the guy who typed "man on man" and then blamed your phone for autocorrecting my sn. I mean... MY phone doesn't do that... but I guess I haven't been searching around the Internet for anything that would cause my phone to think "man on man" was an appropriate suggestion ;)

HeyItsRaymond
Apr 2, 2011, 10:59 AM
Sounds like your typical Barista at Starbucks.

I actually paid my way through school doing affiliate marketing for adult websites and also running their social media such as Twitter, Facebook and editing videos to make them just acceptable enough for YouTube and other sites as promos.

It makes me on average $4,500 a month for 6-7 hours of work a week. But it's not consistent. Some weeks I only make $200 and others I make $2,000

At a 50% commission on each sign-up and re-bill you'd be surprised how lucrative it can be. The main company I work for the guy started it in 2002 with $25,000 and he is now worth $30 Million.

You don't have to believe me because I don't really care but if you do want proof I can change one of the websites landing pages to say "Hi RKahl" or something.

MagnusVonMagnum
Apr 2, 2011, 11:00 AM
It is interesting to note most of the criminals in this thread who steal from AT&T, come across as not even being legally able to sign a contract.

So from that perspective i guess they got check and mate.

So congrats to you guys for stealing from AT&T. Just hope your parents don't get into any trouble.

What's amazing to me is that some of the people acting like condescending preachers don't even comprehend the definition of the word "stealing". :rolleyes:

If they did, they would realize it's AT&T that are the thieves. These people are paying for a certain amount of data per month and that's what they should get. It should not be of the slightest concern to AT&T how these people use their data. If I buy a gallon of distilled water from the grocery store and it costs 99 cents, should the grocery store be able to tell me that I have to pay a surcharge of $10 per month if I want to use that water in an electrolysis machine to generate hydrogen fuel (as opposed to say using it in an espresso machine) ??? I bought the water either way. How I use it is none of their business. Them charging more money because they think I'm getting better or more use out of the water I bought is nothing but unethical greed. It would be the grocery store that is doing wrong, not the person buying the water. I'm amazed so many greedy Republican types on here can't see basic math of 1+1 <> 10. For those that claim to be "religious" you should trying reading the parts of the Bible or Torah that talk about weights and measures and cheating the customer by charging more for what they bought than what they get.

Now I personally don't even an own an iPhone and I wouldn't want to even deal with scammers like AT&T again who do nothing but try to bleed you dry with BS "fees". I used to have them for phone service and my bill just kept going up up up every month with added "fees" for things like "maintaining long distance carrier" (even if I never used a single minute of long distance each month). It came out to like $46 a month on average with one or two long distance calls amounting to a couple of minutes (and many months with no long distance usage). Now I get unlimited long distance for $29 a month and they don't try to charge me more for using my fax machine on the line (which is what AT&T is trying to do to iPhone users).

HeyItsRaymond
Apr 2, 2011, 11:09 AM
Yet AT&T can legally bill you and require you to pay for ever bit of data you download while teathering. I believe the cost works out to be 10 bucks per meg. Tell me how would those people like being slammed at that cost.

Actually they can't. All they can do is terminate your service end your contract early.

Has anyone here actually read the T&C or do they just blab stuff out randomly? It's like people that live in Louisiana giving legal advice to people in California. State laws vary greatly and most people that love giving legal advice haven't even taken a basic Business Law course much less are full on attorneys.

HeyItsRaymond
Apr 2, 2011, 11:13 AM
I'm amazed so many greedy Republican types

I'm a total Republican and I agree with being able to use the data how ever you want.

The difference between me and most "Republicans" in this country is that I think for myself and don't let Glenn Beck tell me what to do and when.

HeyItsRaymond
Apr 2, 2011, 11:23 AM
I've been checking blogs, news sources, forums, etc... since the supposed deadline to see if ANYONE has been had their contract terminated or been upgraded to the DataPro plan and I can't find one single example so I've convinced that AT&T either has no way to prove MyWi users are tethering or their lawyers/business department decided that they would lose more money by changing customers contracst who could in return keep the AT&T iPhone, sell it and then go to Verizon with no ETF.

If anyone can link to a reputable source where they report a person being forced to upgrade, etc... then I'd love to read it.

Rodimus Prime
Apr 2, 2011, 11:33 AM
I've been checking blogs, news sources, forums, etc... since the supposed deadline to see if ANYONE has been had their contract terminated or been upgraded to the DataPro plan and I can't find one single example so I've convinced that AT&T either has no way to prove MyWi users are tethering or their lawyers/business department decided that they would lose more money by changing customers contracst who could in return keep the AT&T iPhone, sell it and then go to Verizon with no ETF.

If anyone can link to a reputable source where they report a person being forced to upgrade, etc... then I'd love to read it.

considering AT&T just started doing this only a few weeks ago the lack of a force change means nothing.
I am willing to bet the force chances are going to start coming in a few months. Give the ones tethering a little time to choose to either A) Stop tethering or B) switch.

Also detecting the teathering is a cake walk to do. Mutliple ones of us who have a better understanding of how networking works have already pointed out how easy it is for AT&T to pick that up. All they count are hopes in the data path to a given point. If it is greater than the number than it should be then you are tethering that simple.
Also every report I have heard about that message going out has been on people who OMG have been tethering. That tells me that they can do it.

Also chances are the people they will force switch are the ones who tethering more than the every now but the ones who are repeated offenders month after month.

HeyItsRaymond
Apr 2, 2011, 11:37 AM
Also every report I have heard about that message going out has been on people who OMG have been tethering. That tells me that they can do it.


One friend of mine got a message and she uses her phone a lot for Netflix and Pandora, etc... because she travels but her phone is not jailbroken and she does not tether.

Another friend told me his mother got a message and she barely knows how to use her iPhone much less jailbreak it and tether. But she does use a lot of data because she downloads all her podcast directly to the phone.

HeyItsRaymond
Apr 2, 2011, 11:41 AM
It is interesting to note most of the criminals in this thread who steal from AT&T, come across as not even being legally able to sign a contract.

So from that perspective i guess they got check and mate.

So congrats to you guys for stealing from AT&T. Just hope your parents don't get into any trouble.

Do you also believe that people who are smart enough to simply clear their cache and therefore circumvent the 'paywall' at NYTimes.com are also super criminals that are causing undue harm to all the other people that view that website?

Rodimus Prime
Apr 2, 2011, 11:53 AM
One friend of mine got a message and she uses her phone a lot for Netflix and Pandora, etc... because she travels but her phone is not jailbroken and she does not tether.

Another friend told me his mother got a message and she barely knows how to use her iPhone much less jailbreak it and tether. But she does use a lot of data because she downloads all her podcast directly to the phone.

and I will just say I do not believe you as both those are quetionable at best. All the reports here from people who gotten them have been from people who teather and on top of that as multiple ones of us have pointed out it is very easy to prove and detect.
Go learn a little how TCIP data packs work and how all that is transmited and you will understand how easy it is to see that there is an extra hop.

AT&T knows exactly how many hopes is should be from your phone to a check point. If there is 1 more hope on top of that then you are tethering as that means there is a hop from a device to the phone.

It should go Phone to Tower to check point..... If there is one more on there that is a tethering.

Azzin
Apr 2, 2011, 12:49 PM
Theoretically that's correct. The phone can only pull down so much bandwidth. The issue is that the iPhone, most of the time, isn't going to be maxing out it's bandwidth. A computer tethered to it can do that much easier. That's the real issue.

But the 3G network gives out a theoritical maximum of 3.6Mbps or 7.2Mbps, so the iPhone can only take what the mast is giving it.

Tethering an extra device to an iPhone won't increase the bandwidth that the mast is giving out.

The extra device can only ever share what the iPhone is give from the mast, put it this way-if you had 10Mb cable BB, that's what you get to your house-10Mb.

So your one PC can download at 10Mbps, yes?

Good, now if you add extra PCs/laptops/whatever and start downloading, your 1st PC can't download at 10 Mbps because the others are sharing it.

That's the point I'm making, in that example having 4 PCs sharing the connection won't make the cable co supply any extra bandwidth, there's still a 10Mbps connection going to the house.

You could QoS the machines and give them 2.5 Mbps each, but the fact remains that adding PCs to a home network via a switch or router doesn't take more bandwidth and nor does tethering an iPad to an iPhone's 3G connection.

manman
Apr 2, 2011, 12:51 PM
and I will just say I do not believe you...

Aaaaand, hence the reason he is able to state that "all" the reports he's heard are going to people that actually tether. Lol, it's easy to make claims like that when you just throw out all data that doesn't fit your statement :rolleyes:

Yes, everyone is impressed that you understand TCP and networking...it's not a hard thing to learn, you're not unique. What has ALSO been pointed out multiple times is that there is a difference between CAN and DO. What you need to "go learn" is that businesses base decisions on things like cost/benefit, and not just "hey, is it technically possible to do?!". There's no telling whether or not they used a simple, less costly/more error prone method of detecting these people, or whether they are going full stop and implementing a more robust, less error prone method of catching people. Then there's the separate decision of what action they decide to take on it... how many/how hard they will go after people. That again won't just be what they are legally or technically capable of doing... they will consider a lot more than that, like cost (both what they need to spend and potential losses from blowback and other risks) etc.

It will all depend on how much they REALLY believe unauthorized tethering is costing them, and what they stand to gain based on what methods they use. It may just be that it's costing them enough to need to address it- but they calculated that blasting out a message that catches a lot of people tethering and some people who aren't would scare enough people out of tethering to offset it, and that doing more wouldn't be worth it. I'm not saying that IS the case, I'm just saying that unless you work for AT&T and are IN some of these meetings- nobody knows until more data comes out.

And, you know...you have to actually TAKE that data into consideration when it does...you can't just decide not to believe it because it doesn't fit with your opinion :)

alandail
Apr 2, 2011, 12:59 PM
This analogy makes no sense. I'm the only one using the phone data. I'm not broadcasting it to 4 people.

Imagine that you went to buy a DVD and they asked you at the register how many DVD's players you had in your house because you can only play it on one DVD player for $19.99 but if you want to play it in any other DVD player it is going to cost you $9.99 for each additional player you own and want to use to watch the DVD. Same scam.

it makes perfect sense. You bought the right to a data connection to your phone, but not to the rights to re-broadcast that data connection to other devices. Devices that could be simultaneously used by other members of your family.

Add something to my drive in movie example. The charge is $10 for a single person, and a single charge of $10 that allows up to 5 other people in your car. You go, pay the $10, and sneak in 3 other people in your trunk. You claim the same movie image is coming to your car either way and you are taking up the same amount of parking space. How is that any different at all than buying data access to a single device knowing full well there is an extra charge to share that access with additional devices.

Your DVD analogy is the one that's wrong. DVD's do come with licenses that restrict what you can do. You can't legally upload the video to the internet, you can't legally broadcast it on TV, you can't legally make copies and sell or rent them. You simply can't claim you bought the DVD so you can do whatever you want with it.

CubusX
Apr 2, 2011, 01:05 PM
Thats the problem, many didn't.
AT&T did not have tethering plans before.
Also for the unlimited people they do not have the ability to add tethering.

How will they handle the Tmobile unlimited at $10 a month and all the people who tether for free on TMobile?

Unbelievable how people defend AT&T


Most Carriers offer unlimited and many free tethering.

Its hard to believe that they can offer it like this and AT&T can't.:rolleyes:

AT&T did have tethering on the unlimited data plan. It was offered when iOS 3.0 was released for an extra $20 a month.

Am I typing in a foreign language that you are not understanding?

This defeats your whole argument.

manman
Apr 2, 2011, 01:09 PM
it makes perfect sense. You bought the right to a data connection to your phone, but not to the rights to re-broadcast that data connection to other devices. Devices that could be simultaneously used by other members of your family.

Add something to my drive in movie example. The charge is $10 for a single person, and a single charge of $10 that allows up to 5 other people in your car. You go, pay the $10, and sneak in 3 other people in your trunk. You claim the same movie image is coming to your car either way and you are taking up the same amount of parking space. How is that any different at all than buying data access to a single device knowing full well there is an extra charge to share that access with additional devices.

Your DVD analogy is the one that's wrong. DVD's do come with licenses that restrict what you can do. You can't legally upload the video to the internet, you can't legally broadcast it on TV, you can't legally make copies and sell or rent them. You simply can't claim you bought the DVD so you can do whatever you want with it.

Yeah, your analogy I think is one of the few that actually do make sense, haha. The analogy people make that you can use your home internet connection on multiple machines without having to pay extra is also correct...the difference is just the business model that these companies are using.
Your ISP's for home internet have it built into the business model for you to be able to do this, and they allow it. Phone companies didn't originally have this scenario accounted for, and now that they do they are choosing a different route- asking you to pay more if you want to use multiple devices. Whether or not we like this is one thing- but it IS built into the contract, so they have the right to do whatever they want to protect it.

As far as I'm concerned though, I just don't care. These companies are always looking for a way to stick it to consumers, nickel and dime us and make an extra buck- adding or changing terms to contracts whenever they want etc. So while I know it's against what THEY want, and what we originally agreed to- I don't give a crap, i'll do the same and get what I can, how I can until they decide to stop me. I don't use data on multiple devices simultaneously, I use the same amount of data I would have used on my phone surfing there, but surfing it on my iPad instead because I want the bigger screen while i'm on the bus or whatever. If i'm using a laptop I'm always on wifi so I'm not blowing through more data there. To me, I'm just avoiding paying extra for using the exact same amount of data. If they want to pop up and stop me, more power to them- I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Call it justification, call it stealing, call it whatever you want- I won't lose a wink of sleep.

alandail
Apr 2, 2011, 01:12 PM
As I mentioned before, I have no axe to grind either way, but my take on it is that your iPhone can only ever receive data at "x" speeds/rates.

For example, in my iPhone I have a Vodafone (UK) SIM and at home for example I get about 2.5Mbps down on any given speed test.

Now, if I were to download at full pelt on my iPhone for an hour I could only download "x" amount of data in that 60 minutes due to the network I'm on and my location.

So, if I were to tether my phone to my iPad and my laptop for example, I am still only able to download at that same speed for that 60 minutes, so what's the issue (apart from the contract saying that I'm not allowed to tether)?

Connecting 2 x extra devices to my iPhone's data connection isn't going to magically make Vodafone increase the speeds I get (and therefore increase the amount of data I can receive).

Just my 2p's worth. :)

you paid for a data connection for your phone, not the right to saturate the line 24/7. They had reasonable expectations for how much data people would use their phones for. Tethering changes those expectations, which is why there is an extra fee and why tethering plans don't offer unlimited data.

If you combine G4 phones, tethering and unlimited data, suddenly many people could do away with their home ISP and use their data plan instead. That clearly wasn't the intent of unlimited data service for phones and quite clearly uses tons more bandwidth usage per month than the same phone without tethering.

I like how the title of the thread says unauthorized, not illegal, tethering. I think that is because it isnt criminal.

it's illegal (and unethical) to steal service without paying for it.

manman
Apr 2, 2011, 01:17 PM
If you combine G4 phones, tethering and unlimited data, suddenly many people could do away with their home ISP and use their data plan instead. That clearly wasn't the intent of unlimited data service for phones and quite clearly uses tons more bandwidth usage per month than the same phone without tethering.

I don't think there is any risk of this actually happening, lol. If people wanted a crappy, slow data connection to share on all their computers at home, they'd just pay the 10-20 bucks or whatever it costs to get it through a normal isp. Why would you pay all that money for phone service and data connection just to get it through tethering...

alandail
Apr 2, 2011, 01:17 PM
Actually they can't. All they can do is terminate your service end your contract early.

Has anyone here actually read the T&C or do they just blab stuff out randomly? It's like people that live in Louisiana giving legal advice to people in California. State laws vary greatly and most people that love giving legal advice haven't even taken a basic Business Law course much less are full on attorneys.

I read the T&C and it specifically prohibits tethering without buying the additional service.

I've been checking blogs, news sources, forums, etc... since the supposed deadline to see if ANYONE has been had their contract terminated or been upgraded to the DataPro plan and I can't find one single example so I've convinced that AT&T either has no way to prove MyWi users are tethering or their lawyers/business department decided that they would lose more money by changing customers contracst who could in return keep the AT&T iPhone, sell it and then go to Verizon with no ETF.

If anyone can link to a reputable source where they report a person being forced to upgrade, etc... then I'd love to read it.

the have a very easy way to prove it. if data coming from your phone is requesting web pages from a browser that identifies itself as a desktop or iPad browser, you have to be tethering.

Do you also believe that people who are smart enough to simply clear their cache and therefore circumvent the 'paywall' at NYTimes.com are also super criminals that are causing undue harm to all the other people that view that website?

undue harm to other visitors? no
stealing content? yes

just because it's easier than robbing a bank doesn't make it right.

HeyItsRaymond
Apr 2, 2011, 01:27 PM
it's illegal (and unethical) to steal service without paying for it.

It may be unethical but it's not illegal. Why does everyone make it seem like the people that tether are stealing a car or running a cable line to their neighbors house?

It's not "illegal" but it does break the TOS. That's about it.

alandail
Apr 2, 2011, 01:31 PM
But the 3G network gives out a theoritical maximum of 3.6Mbps or 7.2Mbps, so the iPhone can only take what the mast is giving it.

Tethering an extra device to an iPhone won't increase the bandwidth that the mast is giving out.

The extra device can only ever share what the iPhone is give from the mast, put it this way-if you had 10Mb cable BB, that's what you get to your house-10Mb.

So your one PC can download at 10Mbps, yes?

Good, now if you add extra PCs/laptops/whatever and start downloading, your 1st PC can't download at 10 Mbps because the others are sharing it.

That's the point I'm making, in that example having 4 PCs sharing the connection won't make the cable co supply any extra bandwidth, there's still a 10Mbps connection going to the house.

You could QoS the machines and give them 2.5 Mbps each, but the fact remains that adding PCs to a home network via a switch or router doesn't take more bandwidth and nor does tethering an iPad to an iPhone's 3G connection.

the potential peak is the same. The bandwidth actually used is different. The ISP factors this into their pricing. If your ISP offered a discount for people who didn't have routers, would you use the same argument to take the discount and then add a router?

HeyItsRaymond
Apr 2, 2011, 01:36 PM
you paid for a data connection for your phone, not the right to saturate the line 24/7.

Actually it does. If a customer with an unlimited data and unlimited nights and weekends wants to call moviefone and stream Netflix or Pandora while they sleep, it's within their rights.

They had reasonable expectations for how much data people would use their phones for.

If they had reasonable expectations that people would use between 1GB-2GB a month then they should never have offered the Unlimited Plan and started with a 2 GB plan. Sorry they miscalculated.

Tethering changes those expectations, which is why there is an extra fee and why tethering plans don't offer unlimited data.

They don't offer it because they are greedy and because their network sucks. They've had the iPhone for years now and could have upgraded their network but they haven't and have only introduced even more smartphone to the line-up of offerings.

If you combine G4 phones, tethering and unlimited data, suddenly many people could do away with their home ISP and use their data plan instead. That clearly wasn't the intent of unlimited data service for phones and quite clearly uses tons more bandwidth usage per month than the same phone without tethering.

This is laughable. I tether on Verizon and also when I had AT&T and I'd get a whopping 1-2mps download and god knows how slow upload. It'd take me 2 days to watch a Netflix movie while tethered and trying to do something else.

I get 30-35mps on my home ISP for $50 a month so no way I'd get rid of my home service and I doubt many others would either.

However, I wanted to test it and see how WOW would perform and it did quite well.

Anymore invalid arguments you'd like to try?

I read the T&C and it specifically prohibits tethering without buying the additional service.

Yes, I know that. But it doesn't say they can charge you if they "catch" you. It says that if they change anything on your contract without your permission that you can end the contract with no ETF.

And that they can terminate you for any reason at anytime.

Sounds like a win-win to me. Get out of the contract. Keep and sell the AT&T phone for $400-$500 and then use the $500 to go get a Verizon phone without a contract.

undue harm to other visitors? no
stealing content? yes

just because it's easier than robbing a bank doesn't make it right.

Okay dude. Now you're just getting ridiculous. I could tell you the sky is blue right now and you'd disagree with me just because you do not want to be wrong or admit that someone else MIGHT be right.

alandail
Apr 2, 2011, 01:42 PM
It may be unethical but it's not illegal. Why does everyone make it seem like the people that tether are stealing a car or running a cable line to their neighbors house?

It's not "illegal" but it does break the TOS. That's about it.

it most certainly is illegal to steal service. Try googling illegal tethering. Even sites that give instructions for how to do it say

Keep in mind, if your on AT&T (and the same is probably true in other countries as well), your iPhone 3G’s data plan does not include tethering it to a computer, so using it in this way is technically illegal. If you’re willing to risk getting caught and paying the consequences, then go for it.

and it's pretty much exactly like running a cable line to your neighbor's house. I have DirecTV, which charges a per receiver fee. It would be just as illegal to hack a receiver so I could use it on another TV without paying the per-receiver fee.

Actually it does. If a customer with an unlimited data and unlimited nights and weekends wants to call moviefone and stream Netflix or Pandora while they sleep, it's within their rights.

from their phone. Even streaming netflix while they sleep isn't' going to saturate a G3 or G4 connection, but tethering allows for multiple simultaneous netflix connections, which could.

HeyItsRaymond
Apr 2, 2011, 01:47 PM
I have DirecTV, which charges a per receiver fee. It would be just as illegal to hack a receiver so I could use it on another TV without paying the per-receiver fee.

But it would not be "illegal" or "unethical" to use only one box and a splitter and run a cable from that single box to multiple TV's in the house. Or to move the box from room to room depending on which TV you were watching at the time.

You are paying for one box and only using one box. You can only watch the same channel in each room at a time, but it's the same concept.

pdjudd
Apr 2, 2011, 01:48 PM
AT&T did have tethering on the unlimited data plan. It was offered when iOS 3.0 was released for an extra $20 a month.

Am I typing in a foreign language that you are not understanding?

This defeats your whole argument.

No they didn’t. The unlimited plan was never eligible for a tethering plan. AT&T made it very clear that in order to qualify for tethering you either had to have their 2 or 4 gig plans. There is a reason they discontinued the unlimited plan right when they offered tethering.

Since you seem to be so sure that they did offer a plan like they did, I challenge you to provide a cite (from an authoritative source) that confirms that the tethering plan in eligible under the unlimited plan. Provide an authoritative claim and I will retract my claim. If you cannot provide such a cite, please retract yours.

alandail
Apr 2, 2011, 01:48 PM
Yes, I know that. But it doesn't say they can charge you if they "catch" you. It says that if they change anything on your contract without your permission that you can end the contract with no ETF.

And that they can terminate you for any reason at anytime.

Sounds like a win-win to me. Get out of the contract. Keep and sell the AT&T phone for $400-$500 and then use the $500 to go get a Verizon phone without a contract.

if they terminate your contract because your violated it, you still owe the ETF.

HeyItsRaymond
Apr 2, 2011, 01:52 PM
if they terminate your contract because your violated it, you still owe the ETF.

You show me where it say that. It doesn't. Provide a link if you find it.
We may change any terms, conditions, rates, fees, expenses, or charges regarding your Services at any time. We will provide you with notice of material changes (other than changes to governmental fees, proportional charges for governmental mandates, roaming rates or administrative charges) either in your monthly bill or separately. You understand and agree that State and Federal Universal Service Fees and other governmentally imposed fees, whether or not assessed directly upon you, may be increased based upon the government's or our calculations.

IF WE INCREASE THE PRICE OF ANY OF THE SERVICES TO WHICH YOU SUBSCRIBE, BEYOND THE LIMITS SET FORTH IN YOUR CUSTOMER SERVICE SUMMARY, OR IF WE MATERIALLY DECREASE THE GEOGRAPHICAL AREA IN WHICH YOUR AIRTIME RATE APPLIES (OTHER THAN A TEMPORARY DECREASE FOR REPAIRS OR MAINTENANCE), WE'LL DISCLOSE THE CHANGE AT LEAST ONE BILLING CYCLE IN ADVANCE (EITHER THROUGH A NOTICE WITH YOUR BILL, A TEXT MESSAGE TO YOUR DEVICE, OR OTHERWISE), AND YOU MAY TERMINATE THIS AGREEMENT WITHOUT PAYING AN EARLY TERMINATION FEE OR RETURNING OR PAYING FOR ANY PROMOTIONAL ITEMS, PROVIDED YOUR NOTICE OF TERMINATION IS DELIVERED TO US WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS AFTER THE FIRST BILL REFLECTING THE CHANGE.

If you lose your eligibility for a particular rate plan, we may change your rate plan to one for which you qualify.

manman
Apr 2, 2011, 01:52 PM
you aren't really stealing service since tethering is not an at&t service, it's a function built into the device. I still can't see clearly what part of this is "stealing", but I get the contract violation part.

alandail
Apr 2, 2011, 01:52 PM
But it would not be "illegal" or "unethical" to use only one box and a splitter and run a cable from that single box to multiple TV's in the house. Or to move the box from room to room depending on which TV you were watching at the time.

You are paying for one box and only using one box. You can only watch the same channel in each room at a time, but it's the same concept.

it's not the same concept because moving the box or splitting the signal coming out of the box is allowed. They even have multiple signals coming out of the box so you can send them multiple places from the single receiver. You aren't stealing service doing this, you are using the service as intended.

That's completely different than stealing the services of tethering.

If they had reasonable expectations that people would use between 1GB-2GB a month then they should never have offered the Unlimited Plan and started with a 2 GB plan. Sorry they miscalculated.


The never offered unlimited data that includes tethering, they only offered unlimited data that prohibits tethering. The only miscalculation was to expect their customers to not steal service from them.

HeyItsRaymond
Apr 2, 2011, 01:57 PM
To all the naysayers. Have you ever checked your work email from your iPhone? If so, and you are on a personal plan then you are also stealing a service.

alandail
Apr 2, 2011, 01:57 PM
You show me where it say that. It doesn't. Provide a link if you find it.

That doesn't apply to this case. They aren't changing anything, they are holding you to your end of the contract, which says you can't tether. If you are terminated for breaking the contract, you still pay the ETF.

HeyItsRaymond
Apr 2, 2011, 02:02 PM
That doesn't apply to this case. They aren't changing anything, they are holding you to your end of the contract, which says you can't tether. If you are terminated for breaking the contract, you still pay the ETF.

The bogus "warning text and email" did not say they would terminate your contract. They said they'd auto enroll you in a different plan. Which they can do but

We may change any terms, conditions, rates, fees, expenses, or charges regarding your Services at any time.........AND YOU MAY TERMINATE THIS AGREEMENT WITHOUT PAYING AN EARLY TERMINATION FEE OR RETURNING OR PAYING FOR ANY PROMOTIONAL ITEMS, PROVIDED YOUR NOTICE OF TERMINATION IS DELIVERED TO US WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS AFTER THE FIRST BILL REFLECTING THE CHANGE.

I understand that not everyone has taken contract law classes and knows how to wade thorough the legal b.s. but it's pretty clear.

it's not the same concept because moving the box or splitting the signal coming out of the box is allowed. They even have multiple signals coming out of the box so you can send them multiple places from the single receiver. You aren't stealing service doing this, you are using the service as intended.

That's completely different than stealing the services of tethering.

Really, well then the argument could be that we are using a feature built into the iPhone and using it as intended by the manufacturer. This is why the copyright office agreed that jailbreaking is legal, because you are just accessing additional features on your phone and they also determined that you cannot be told what you can and cannot access and use on a device you own.

pdjudd
Apr 2, 2011, 02:06 PM
You show me where it say that. It doesn't. Provide a link if you find it.

Your quote doesn’t cover the scenario you describe - it covers AT&T changing their terms of service. Which makes sense, if AT&T changes terms, you should be able to have an out should you not agree to the new terms. However the reverse would not apply because legally you cannot offer up new terms - there is nothing you can negotiate since AT&T is the gate holder.

HeyItsRaymond
Apr 2, 2011, 02:07 PM
The never offered unlimited data that includes tethering, they only offered unlimited data that prohibits tethering. The only miscalculation was to expect their customers to not steal service from them.

I'm going to dig up my first contract for the iPhone 1 when I had AT&T and I bet "tethering" isn't mentioned because it wasn't really an option at the time so it never explicitly allowed it or explicitly prohibited it.

Next B.S. argument.

Your quote doesn’t cover the scenario you describe - it covers AT&T changing their terms of service. Which makes sense, if AT&T changes terms, you should be able to have an out should you not agree to the new terms. However the reverse would not apply because legally you cannot offer up new terms - there is nothing you can negotiate since AT&T is the gate holder.

No, it says that they cannot change rates, fees, expenses, or charges regarding your Services. So basically, if they change ANYTHING then you can cancel.

If english your second language? Because the first sentence clearly states that they can change anything they want whenever they want but later in the paragraph it states that if they do you can terminate your contract without any penalty.

alandail
Apr 2, 2011, 02:11 PM
The bogus "warning text and email" did not say they would terminate your contract. They said they'd auto enroll you in a different plan. Which they can do but



I understand that not everyone has taken contract law classes and knows how to wade thorough the legal b.s. but it's pretty clear.

it's pretty clear that the customer initiated the change in plans by choosing to tether. It's quite clearly stated that tethering requires a plan change and the associated monthly fee.

If AT&T changed someone who hasn't already broken their plan to either the tethering plan or a capped plan, then they could certainly terminate without paying the fee. But that's not the case here.

No, it says that they cannot change rates, fees, expenses, or charges regarding your Services. So basically, if they change ANYTHING then you can cancel.

If english your second language? Because the first sentence clearly states that they can change anything they want whenever they want but later in the paragraph it states that if they do you can terminate your contract without any penalty.

but they didn't change anything, you did. They even give you the option of not changing by returning to following the terms you agreed to. If you don't, you have changed plans. They certainly would be within their rights to retroactively bill you under the tethering plan from the day you first broke your contract and started tethering.

I'm going to dig up my first contract for the iPhone 1 when I had AT&T and I bet "tethering" isn't mentioned because it wasn't really an option at the time so it never explicitly allowed it or explicitly prohibited it.

Next B.S. argument.

I'm not sure that matters either way unless you still using that EDGE only iPhone. Certainly you have since upgraded to a subsidized phone which required signing your current two year agreement.

HeyItsRaymond
Apr 2, 2011, 02:16 PM
The never offered unlimited data that includes tethering, they only offered unlimited data that prohibits tethering. The only miscalculation was to expect their customers to not steal service from them.

Original AT&T Terms of Service for the Original iPhone (Circa 2007) is located here": http://www.apple.com/legal/iphone/us/terms/service_att.html

Now show me where it prohibits tethering? Oh, it doesn't? How strange.

Contract Law 101, anything not explicitly stated or prohibited is allowed. Especially when you can legally JB your phone to access additional options.

pdjudd
Apr 2, 2011, 02:17 PM
No, it says that they cannot change rates, fees, expenses, or charges regarding your Services. So basically, if they change ANYTHING then you can cancel.


You do not understand my point. If you tether, you are changing the terms. Not AT&T. You are arguing the exact same thing I am.


If english your second language? Because the first sentence clearly states that they can change anything they want whenever they want but later in the paragraph it states that if they do you can terminate your contract without any penalty.

They are (and can) define different things at different parts of their plans. The first scenario likely defines actions that they can do if you violate. The second scenario covers their changes.

alandail
Apr 2, 2011, 02:19 PM
Original AT&T Terms of Service for the Original iPhone (Circa 2007) is located here": http://www.apple.com/legal/iphone/us/terms/service_att.html

Now show me where it prohibits tethering? Oh, it doesn't? How strange.

Contract Law 101, anything not explicitly stated or prohibited is allowed. Especially when you can legally JB your phone to access additional options.

all it says one way or the other about it is

you will be billed according to your data plan

You didn't include the terms of your data plan.

Here. I'll save you some time

"Furthermore, plans (unless specifically designated for tethering usage) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device (through use of, including without limitation, connection kits, other phone/smartphone to computer accessories, BLUETOOTH® or any other wireless technology) to Personal Computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for any purpose."

HeyItsRaymond
Apr 2, 2011, 02:21 PM
From 2007 Original iPhone Terms of Service:

"You agree that you will not make any modifications to the Equipment or programming to enable the Equipment to operate on any other system. "

This was found to be an illegal and unenforceable policy by the US Copyright office.Users can modify the device as they see fit.

Where does it mention data services at all in the Original Terms of Service back when they offered Unlimited Data? It doesn't mention them in detail at all.

It's pretty clear that the customer initiated the change in plans by choosing to tether. It's quite clearly stated that tethering requires a plan change and the associated monthly fee.

Another invalid argument. In order to change a plan, the customer needs to explicitly state that they wish to change the plan, in writing and therefore sign another Terms of Service.

If not, AT&T could the customer initiated a change from a low 2GB plan to a higher plan simply because they went over 2GB a few times.

"Furthermore, plans (unless specifically designated for tethering usage) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device (through use of, including without limitation, connection kits, other phone/smartphone to computer accessories, BLUETOOTH® or any other wireless technology) to Personal Computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for any purpose."


That's from the current Terms of Service. Not the 2007 TOS when they offered unlimited data. That was the Full TOS from 2007.

alandail
Apr 2, 2011, 02:27 PM
Another invalid argument. In order to change a plan, the customer needs to explicate state that they wish to change the plan, in writing and therefore sign another Terms of Service.

If not, AT&T could the customer initiated a change from a low 2GB plan to a higher plan simply because they went over 2GB a few times.

no they can't, they can just charge for the extra data like the agreement says.

The agreement says

Data plan for iPhone is required for the life of your iPhone service and cannot be removed in the future.

and

Furthermore, plans (unless specifically designated for tethering usage) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device (through use of, including without limitation, connection kits, other phone/smartphone to computer accessories, BLUETOOTH® or any other wireless technology) to Personal Computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for any purpose.

So you've agreed both that your plan doesn't allow tethering and that you have to be on a data plan. If you tether, you have to be on a data plan that allows tethering. By tethering, you've made the change.

That's from the current Terms of Service. Not the 2007 TOS when they offered unlimited data. That was the Full TOS from 2007.

no, the TOS you quoted referred to the dataplan, You haven't posted the TOS of the dataplan. And, like I said earlier, unless you are still using the original EDGE iPhone 1, you have agreed to new TOS when you bought the newer, subsidized one. The one that has the ETF associated with it.

your plan isn't "specifically designated for tethering usage", when you got your current iPhone, you agreed to TOS that said both that you can't tether without a plan like that and that you agree to have a data plan for the life of your service. You are grandfathered into the dataplan, but not to the TOS. You agree to new TOS each time you get a new subsidized phone.

HeyItsRaymond
Apr 2, 2011, 02:37 PM
Original data plan TOS (2007) http://www.tosback.org/version.php?vid=437

And who says my phone was ever subsidized? I never said that. It's very possible that I purchased the Original,3G, 3GS and iPhone 4 outright meaning I'd be grandfathered in to both the 2007 TOS and Data Plan since you do not sign a new contract if you do not get a subsidized phone. If you don't believe me go talk to an AT&T rep at the store.

alandail
Apr 2, 2011, 02:39 PM
Original data plan TOS (2007) http://www.tosback.org/version.php?vid=437

And who says my phone was ever subsidized? I never said that. It's very possible that I purchased the Original,3G, 3GS and iPhone 4 outright meaning I'd be grandfathered in to both the 2007 TOS and Data Plan since you do not sign a new contract if you do not get a subsidized phone. If you don't believe me go talk to an AT&T rep at the store.

you still have to agree to the TOS to activate the phone. And if you paid full price, why are you worried about the ETF that exists to cover the cost of the subsidy?

alandail
Apr 2, 2011, 02:43 PM
Original data plan TOS (2007) http://www.tosback.org/version.php?vid=437

And who says my phone was ever subsidized? I never said that. It's very possible that I purchased the Original,3G, 3GS and iPhone 4 outright meaning I'd be grandfathered in to both the 2007 TOS and Data Plan since you do not sign a new contract if you do not get a subsidized phone. If you don't believe me go talk to an AT&T rep at the store.


And now that you have the original data plan, you might want to read it.

CANNOT BE USED FOR ANY APPLICATIONS THAT TETHER THE DEVICE (THROUGH USE OF, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, CONNECTION KITS, OTHER PHONE/PDA-TO-COMPUTER ACCESSORIES, BLUETOOTH® OR ANY OTHER WIRELESS TECHNOLOGY) TO LAPTOPS, PCS, OR OTHER EQUIPMENT FOR ANY PURPOSE.

You just proved your original plan explicitly prohibits tethering.

manman
Apr 2, 2011, 02:45 PM
You do not understand my point. If you tether, you are changing the terms. Not AT&T. You are arguing the exact same thing I am.
.

untrue. It's still them changing the terms and plan. they can make some argument that you brought it on yourself through violating the TOS, but it's still them making the change.

As far as the ETF goes, this raymond guy just /threaded all of you with the contract snippet he posted. AT&T might still try to charge you, but as far as the contract I'd say it's right there in black and white.



S*it, I just checked my work email today...I stole from AT&T :(

alandail
Apr 2, 2011, 02:49 PM
Who said I was worried about the ETF?


you did when you brought it up by saying

Sounds like a win-win to me. Get out of the contract. Keep and sell the AT&T phone for $400-$500 and then use the $500 to go get a Verizon phone without a contract.

you claim to know contract law, but apparently don't actually read the contracts. The last one you posted proves you were wrong.

marksman
Apr 3, 2011, 04:55 PM
As Alandail noted, the tethering prohibition is part of the data plan TOS. It has nothing to do with the voice plan as it is not applicable.

Nobody who currently has an AT&T iPhone with a data plan has not agreed to this.

I have an original iPhone on the original iPhone data plan, and I can not contractually tether on that.

I would also add Raymond is wrong on the termination issue as well. The point he quoted is if they change the terms and terminate you, you can get out of the ETF.

If you violate the contract, you do not get out of the ETF.

Raymond, your understanding of contracts is very naive. Saying that anything not explicitly listed in a contract is valid is absolutely not correct.


Do you also believe that people who are smart enough to simply clear their cache and therefore circumvent the 'paywall' at NYTimes.com are also super criminals that are causing undue harm to all the other people that view that website?

Not super criminals but criminals none the less. How could you not consider that a crime? That is really odd.

If someone sells something and you circumvent their systems to steal it for free, how is that not a crime? It is disconcerting that lack of morals that people seem to have these days.

jav6454
Apr 3, 2011, 04:58 PM
This age old topic is still going on?

Here isnthe truth. Tethering without an AT&T plan is not illegal but it is a breachnin the Terms of Service you signed.

Therefor your service could be terminated at any time or you could be well charge the appropiate plans.

That's it. End of discussion.

Now as per why AT&T is no tracking us, well that's a whole new dilemma. Maybe they got tired of free riders on their network. Or perhaps they could never well detect before when you tethered and they now can.

Who knows.

marksman
Apr 3, 2011, 05:17 PM
AT&T might consider something similar to this :

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/04/03/1642237/Pirated-Android-App-Shames-Freeloaders?from=twitter

For those who steal tethering from them.

MagnusVonMagnum
Apr 3, 2011, 05:46 PM
If someone sells something and you circumvent their systems to steal it for free, how is that not a crime? It is disconcerting that lack of morals that people seem to have these days.

Circumvent? These people have PAID for X amount of data per month. YOU seem to be suggesting that they do not deserve to actually receive the data they PAID for and insist they are "stealing" it. I don't think you even know the definition of "morals". :rolleyes:

robanga
Apr 3, 2011, 05:48 PM
AT&T might consider something similar to this :

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/04/03/1642237/Pirated-Android-App-Shames-Freeloaders?from=twitter

For those who steal tethering from them.

Unlikely:) ( but a little bit funny)

Seriously just pay for the data people...yikes. If the NYT puts up a paywall pay for the Times. If you do not like it buy something something else.

And whomever said checking work email on personal plan is in violation of the TOS is being silly. Work is personal. Personal is work. They have no interest in keeping you from your email.

pdjudd
Apr 4, 2011, 07:54 AM
And whomever said checking work email on personal plan is in violation of the TOS is being silly. Work is personal. Personal is work. They have no interest in keeping you from your email.

Not to mention that those fees are probably targeted to blackberry users, which on every carrier, involves an extra fee (usually 15 bucks more).

johnnyturbouk
Apr 4, 2011, 10:04 AM
only good thing about three network in uk is that it allows one to tether the phones 3g network to wifi devices

Azzin
Apr 4, 2011, 05:21 PM
only good thing about three network in uk is that it allows one to tether the phones 3g network to wifi devices

Plus-it's fully unlimited data, no FUP, no small print, just unlimited (or all you can eat as 3 call it!) data.

drummingcraig
Apr 4, 2011, 05:34 PM
AT&T might consider something similar to this :

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/04/03/1642237/Pirated-Android-App-Shames-Freeloaders?from=twitter

For those who steal tethering from them.

This is off-topic and I apologize for that, but in regards to the app referenced in that story: IMHO, anyone who walks into a busy street or in front of an oncoming train because they are too busy texting & walking to notice lacks a certain modicum of intelligence. Furthermore, anyone who needs an app to prevent this from happening (which insinuates that it is a constant problem for them) probably should not be procreating.

[/off-topic]

Dibsdibble
Apr 4, 2011, 06:20 PM
Seems to me AT&T should focus on providing their customers with service/signal in all areas and not worry so much about charging people more for data they have already paid for.

tirexstorm
Apr 5, 2011, 12:50 AM
I haven't seen many updates lately. Are people still getting notifications from AT&T for using tetherme/mywi? Has anyone figured out how AT&T is detecting who is using those programs?

Maaz
Apr 5, 2011, 02:10 AM
Im also wondering this. And the answer to wether or not I'm more at risk of being detected by using tetherme native hotspot or mywi.

Chocolatemilty
Apr 5, 2011, 02:45 AM
Well, I did use MyWi two weekends ago to tether the laptop to watch the Lakers game in the car and do some other web surfing while driving up from LA to Sacramento. Used some 800MB I believe. I have yet to get anything from AT&T...

TC25
Apr 5, 2011, 02:49 AM
I haven't seen many updates lately.

That's because the main thread isn't in this forum, it's here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1119791).

gngan
Apr 5, 2011, 03:47 AM
Seems to me AT&T should focus on providing their customers with service/signal in all areas and not worry so much about charging people more for data they have already paid for.

Sending people SMS or charging people tethering is a small cost comparing to build new infrastructures.

People pay unlimited plan for their iPhone usage NOT tethering.

Kadman
Apr 5, 2011, 07:23 AM
I use MyWi 3 or 4 days out of the week for periodic surfing and sometimes streaming (Sling, Netflix, NCAA for March Madness) and no notification or letter.

TheOriginalKi
Apr 5, 2011, 07:49 AM
only good thing about three network in uk is that it allows one to tether the phones 3g network to wifi devices

Not on all their plans.

I'm on The One Plan, which does allow it. Rarely use it... but it is nice knowing it's there if/when I need to.

Gen
Apr 5, 2011, 08:05 AM
Since Tetherme works with the included hotpot feature, and MyWi has it's own app - is tetherme more likely to get detected by ATT than MyWi?

alent1234
Apr 5, 2011, 08:20 AM
Seems to me AT&T should focus on providing their customers with service/signal in all areas and not worry so much about charging people more for data they have already paid for.

verizon is more expensive than AT&T and some of us don't care that there is a 3G signal where the cows are. AT&T works where most people live and work

pdjudd
Apr 5, 2011, 08:26 AM
Seems to me AT&T should focus on providing their customers with service/signal in all areas and not worry so much about charging people more for data they have already paid for.
You mean conduct a business practice that all carriers do? News flash, pretty much every standard smartphone plan (limited or not) requires that you pay extra for tethering - Sprint, VZW, T-mobile, and so on all have separate tethering fee's. It also appears to be the case in other countries - which is exactly how Apple advertised it when they debuted it - it would be based on the carrier providing support.

And no carrier is going to be able to provide service everywhere - simple physics and legalities just don't make that practice.

/user/me
Apr 5, 2011, 10:45 AM
verizon is more expensive than AT&T and some of us don't care that there is a 3G signal where the cows are. AT&T works where most people live and work

You're right about that, but you know what? the people that live "where the cows are" care about their service. I lived in a suburb of a very large metropolitan area, and I never got service in my basement, but low and behold, once i got att, I had service all over my house. Oh and by the way, there's cows 10 miles away from my house...

InuNacho
Apr 5, 2011, 11:46 AM
verizon is more expensive than AT&T and some of us don't care that there is a 3G signal where the cows are. AT&T works where most people live and work

Way outback in the Silicon Valley AT&T never works. 3G coverage is practically non-exsistant, dropped calls are frequent, and expect to get voicemails/text messages anywhere from 5 minutes - several hours late.

The only plus side to all this is that theres the free same service calling thing, sorta makes up for the horrible coverage.

theelysium
Apr 5, 2011, 12:39 PM
ATT is so data greedy!

If I pay for Unlimited it should also include tethering. it's BS.

pdjudd
Apr 5, 2011, 12:49 PM
ATT is so data greedy!

If I pay for Unlimited it should also include tethering. it's BS.
Well, according to AT&T, and the contract you agreed with them, you do get "unlimited Data", it is just limited to the phone and nothing else.

Just because your phone can technically support it, doesn't mean that AT&T (or anybody else) has to support it. All service providers have defined limits to their service. With cellular providers, tethering is considered a different service, just like have a business class connection with your ISP gives you different abilities.

And this is NOT just AT&T, several carriers, even non-us ones, view tethering as a separate feature.

AlphaDogg
Apr 5, 2011, 01:06 PM
I've been doing some light tethering the past couple days (100mb/day) on a 2GB plan. No text from AT&T about unauthorized tethering!

err404
Apr 5, 2011, 01:09 PM
ATT is so data greedy!

If I pay for Unlimited it should also include tethering. it's BS.
Unlimited and Unresticted are two different things. You can use all the data you want, but are restricted to a single device.

OneMike
Apr 5, 2011, 01:22 PM
Unlimited and Unresticted are two different things. You can use all the data you want, but are restricted to a single device.

yep and I see no problem with this.

pdjudd
Apr 5, 2011, 01:24 PM
Unlimited and Unresticted are two different things. You can use all the data you want, but are restricted to a single device.

That is the best way to term things for this discussion. AT&T offers unlimited data, but it is not unrestricted in it's use.

MagnusVonMagnum
Apr 5, 2011, 03:06 PM
Seems to me AT&T should focus on providing their customers with service/signal in all areas and not worry so much about charging people more for data they have already paid for.

They say people don't like big government, but the only way to stop BS fees and other crap from corporations is to keep passing laws (which they then look for loopholes to circumvent and the circle goes on and on). For instance, they are trying to get legislation to limit the fees credit card banks can charge merchants (see "interchange fees" on any news site) and the banks are, of course threatening to simply rip customers off in another area (e.g. remove free checking, increase ATM fees, etc.) because they aren't making enough money, don't you know. Record profits and a recession squarely at the feet of banks and yet they are not making enough profit. :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, teachers, police and firefighters are apparently making too much money with pushes by Republicans and Tea Baggers to cut their pay and benefits packages in the name of the greater good. Yes, the same greater good that corporations and banks refuse to contribute to because they are simply not making enough profit. They need to charge you higher ATM fees and overage fees and walking on their carpet fees so they can buy that extra mansion and brand new Aston Martin. Teachers can get by with less, though. They don't need health care and $50,000 a year is just too much money! They're stinking rich don't you know? :rolleyes:

Yes, AT&T needs that extra fee for the same data you already paid for. After all, coffee turns to wine when you visit Google via a laptop instead of an iPad.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

TC25
Apr 5, 2011, 05:46 PM
They say ...

More chuckles. Thanks, comrade.

robanga
Apr 5, 2011, 10:43 PM
We need to form a soviet council and nationalize the telecommunications providers thats the ticket....

Then prices will be cheap and we will get great service, because government is so efficient at what it does.

Sing to our glorious motherland.

MagnusVonMagnum
Apr 6, 2011, 03:09 PM
We need to form a soviet council and nationalize the telecommunications providers thats the ticket....

Then prices will be cheap and we will get great service, because government is so efficient at what it does.

Sing to our glorious motherland.

You people are beyond ridiculous (and contempt, IMO). WTF does Communism got to do with crushing unions and destroying collective bargaining? If anything, what these Republicans are trying to do is closer to Communism than what I'm talking about. There's greed and then there's GREED. The Middle Class in America was built upon the backs of unions demanding better wages and working conditions. The Greedmonger Party is trying to take us back to the days of kids working in coal mines and no minimum wage so they can pay slave labor rates like they do in most 3rd world countries. The United States should never be heading in the direction of 3rd world status. These people sold out this country to big oil and Communist China sweat shops and are turning it into a garbage heap of nothing but landfills and WalMarts. And then they laugh about it to boot. It makes me sick. Go ahead and laugh it up (and hope there is no God while you're at it because the One I was brought up to believe in hates greed).

err404
Apr 6, 2011, 04:08 PM
If anything, what these Republicans are trying to do is closer to Communism than what I'm talking about...
I think you need to look up what Communism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism) means.

tbobmccoy
Apr 6, 2011, 08:03 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)

It's really plutocracy run by the wealthy aristocracy. Let's be honest; Citizens United ended the US as a socialist democracy and moved us towards plutocracy. I weep or the nation.

manman
Apr 6, 2011, 11:08 PM
oh man I wish there was no minimum wage!

even poor people will be wishing that soon when cheap efficient robots get all their jobs. Then they will crowd the streets chanting "THEY TUK RRR JYOBS"!!
At least they won't be so mad at the illegal immigrants anymore though. That's unity.

mochacian
Apr 6, 2011, 11:11 PM
I use MyWi 3 or 4 days out of the week for periodic surfing and sometimes streaming (Sling, Netflix, NCAA for March Madness) and no notification or letter.

how long have you been doing this for? I'm looking to use maybe a couple of times a month and nothing to
Data heavy but would hate to have AT&T hollering at me

Kadman
Apr 7, 2011, 05:34 PM
how long have you been doing this for? I'm looking to use maybe a couple of times a month and nothing to
Data heavy but would hate to have AT&T hollering at me

I started using MyWi when Jailbreakme.com was the norm (4.0.1 days?) usage hasn't been constant, but I definitely have weekends during soccer seasons where I use it quite a bit.

jesusplay
Apr 8, 2011, 04:15 PM
damn over 350GB downloaded in 4 months and i got this text warning thingy today....:confused:

Omniblast
Apr 8, 2011, 08:39 PM
It's not the amount that you download in which they flag you for tethering. Somehow they have been able to determine what data is what and that the data that you are using from MyWi is different from the data normally from a iPhone.

I received the txt as well, called them up and no matter what you say to them they cover any and all devices connected to the iPhone as tethering. Even if you were to connect a iPhone to iPhone I suppose. (I didn't really ask that.) they said that they are accurate 98%

You are given 10 days from the initial report to stop tethering or you will be switched to a $45 plan.

The person even said, it doesn't matter if you are using up 100 gb, as long as it's through the phone and not tethering they won't tag you.

Once your account is flagged, and if you give them a call, the flag to change you to a tethered 4 gb plan will not go into effect, however you will always be monitored on everything you do on the iPhone from here on out. So you essentially will be monitored to be made sure that you are no longer tethering onto your iPhone.

I'm just waiting for someone to be wrongfully accused, and loses their unlimited plan, then takes at&t to court over it. Hopefully that would be the case and stop these senseless messages and e-mails.

err404
Apr 8, 2011, 08:48 PM
damn over 350GB downloaded in 4 months and i got this text warning thingy today....:confused:

Just curious, were you actually tethering, or is this a false positive?

Goldinboy17
Apr 8, 2011, 09:44 PM
how long have you been doing this for? I'm looking to use maybe a couple of times a month and nothing to
Data heavy but would hate to have AT&T hollering at me

I generally tether about five times a week to either my NookColor/iPad/Laptop. Each session uses up about five to thirty MB's of total downloaded/uploaded data.

manman
Apr 8, 2011, 10:33 PM
damn over 350GB downloaded in 4 months and i got this text warning thingy today....:confused:

350GB?!! Holy *****, that is impressive.

good work.

jesusplay
Apr 9, 2011, 09:36 AM
Just curious, were you actually tethering, or is this a false positive?

actually tethering. I called att soon as i got it and played dumb...the rep:" maybe u accidentally pressed something"

idiot :rolleyes:

davelanger
Apr 10, 2011, 12:17 PM
They say people don't like big government, but the only way to stop BS fees and other crap from corporations is to keep passing laws (which they then look for loopholes to circumvent and the circle goes on and on). For instance, they are trying to get legislation to limit the fees credit card banks can charge merchants (see "interchange fees" on any news site) and the banks are, of course threatening to simply rip customers off in another area (e.g. remove free checking, increase ATM fees, etc.) because they aren't making enough money, don't you know. Record profits and a recession squarely at the feet of banks and yet they are not making enough profit. :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, teachers, police and firefighters are apparently making too much money with pushes by Republicans and Tea Baggers to cut their pay and benefits packages in the name of the greater good. Yes, the same greater good that corporations and banks refuse to contribute to because they are simply not making enough profit. They need to charge you higher ATM fees and overage fees and walking on their carpet fees so they can buy that extra mansion and brand new Aston Martin. Teachers can get by with less, though. They don't need health care and $50,000 a year is just too much money! They're stinking rich don't you know? :rolleyes:

Yes, AT&T needs that extra fee for the same data you already paid for. After all, coffee turns to wine when you visit Google via a laptop instead of an iPad.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You are paying for 3G service on YOUR PHONE not your laptop.
You cannot easily DL 150Gs for example on your iphone yet you could easily do that on a laptop in one day.

Stop trying to cheat the system.

lokerd
Apr 10, 2011, 12:48 PM
Somehow they have been able to determine what data is what and that the data that you are using from MyWi is different from the data normally from a iPhone.

they cover any and all devices connected to the iPhone as tethering. Even if you were to connect a iPhone to iPhone I suppose. (I didn't really ask that.) they said that they are accurate 98%

as long as it's through the phone and not tethering they won't tag you.

the flag to change you to a tethered 4 gb plan will not go into effect

Ok, so, I have my iPad 3g sim inside a nonactivated iPhone 4. The 3g plan was activated on an iPad. The phone has no AT&T data plan.

I use MyWi tethering rarely and when I do, it is only to give my wife a signal on her iPad for very little data. Occasionally, I will have my iPhone and iPad, and will connect my iPad to the iPhone, but it is small amount of data also.

In fact, I have never even gone over 1gb even though I am on the unlimited plan with my original iPad.

So, what does this look to AT&T? Technically, it is my iPad plan that is pulling data, and giving it to an iPad. ????

Ideas?

err404
Apr 10, 2011, 02:04 PM
So, what does this look to AT&T? Technically, it is my iPad plan that is pulling data, and giving it to an iPad. ????

Most likely to A&T, this looks like your iPad data plan is routing data through the device where the SIM is installed to another device. Which is exactly what you're doing. From what I have seen so far, it makes no difference how much you tether.
The only catch in your scenario is that AT&T does not offer a plan with tethering for the iPad, so 'm unsure what action they would take upon flagging this usage.

ryanx
Apr 10, 2011, 06:39 PM
Got the message too. Honestly, it sucks.

MagnusVonMagnum
Apr 10, 2011, 07:10 PM
You are paying for 3G service on YOUR PHONE not your laptop.
You cannot easily DL 150Gs for example on your iphone yet you could easily do that on a laptop in one day.

Stop trying to cheat the system.

I don't even have a freaking iPhone dude so spare me the lecture about what you automatically somehow assume I'm doing. :rolleyes:

Regardless, what you can and cannot 'easily do' is IRRELEVANT. If you paid for 150GB of data then you are entitled to 150GB of data. And and it's not that hard to DL a lot of data on an iPad, for instance. A computer is a computer. Just because it's smaller doesn't make it fundamentally different. Safari is on an iPhone, an iPad and a Notebook. And I don't think most of these people doing this are running Bit Torrent clients on their tethered connection. Many people just want to check their e-mail on their notebook. I don't see how that entitles AT&T to more money for the same data regardless of whether it's checked with your e-mail on the iPhone, iPad or iMac.

What YOU and others on here REFUSE to acknowledge is that AT&T are unbelievably GREEDY, immoral and despicable for trying to charge people twice for the same data they already paid for.

Some don't see it because they think the greedy rich are always right and that the average hard working person should bow down to the almighty rich people. They believe that the top 5% should control 99% of the wealth and everyone else should just take whatever they're dishing out. They want early fees, late fees, in-between fees, going to the bathroom while on the clock fees, processing fees, handling fees, baggage fees, pillow fees, sitting near an aisle fees, and a surcharge if your socks don't match your shoes fee. If you don't like those fees, you can just go without because you won't get the service without it. You must AGREE to the software terms, no matter how ridiculously unreasonable or return your opened $60 game which the store will NOT take back because it's been opened or pay a 25% 'restocking' fee. Too bad. But no, it's the person who is sick of getting constantly screwed by the system that is in the wrong.... :rolleyes:

QuarterSwede
Apr 10, 2011, 07:18 PM
damn over 350GB downloaded in 4 months and i got this text warning thingy today....:confused:
I hate to say it ... no I don't, I'm glad you got the message. It's people like you who are killing service for those around you.

lokerd
Apr 10, 2011, 10:26 PM
From what I have seen so far, it makes no difference how much you tether.
The only catch in your scenario is that AT&T does not offer a plan with tethering for the iPad, so 'm unsure what action they would take upon flagging this usage.

Thanks for the reply.

What if I switch to the 2gb plan? Will we still get a tethering message?

EDIT: Also of interest is how they would even communicate with me. I can't receive SMS messages on the pseudo iphone. They could email me, but it seems that this notification starts first with a phone text message.

lokerd
Apr 10, 2011, 10:47 PM
As far as I'm concerned it is the same as going to an all you can eat restaurant and sharing your food between two people, while only paying for one.

Ok, interesting analogy. But, the logical argument is, what if I am NOT at an "All You Can Eat" buffet? What if I only ordered one meal, and I want to share it?

So, I ought to have the option to share a limited data plan. If I pay for 2gb of data, I ought to be able to use it however I want, period.

Also, a problem with your analogy is if am tethering to myself. I.e. I have my phone sitting right next to my iPad. I COULD use the phone, but the iPad is much bigger. When I do tether, I tend to put the phone in my dash and leave it alone.

alandail
Apr 10, 2011, 10:58 PM
Ok, interesting analogy. But, the logical argument is, what if I am NOT at an "All You Can Eat" buffet? What if I only ordered one meal, and I want to share it?

some restaurants charge an extra fee to allow two people order 1 meal and share it.

lokerd
Apr 10, 2011, 11:26 PM
some restaurants charge an extra fee to allow two people order 1 meal and share it.

True. Good point. And I LOATH those places and refuse to go back. Thankfully, it is not very common...usually only for really fancy places. Some places have it on the menu, a split plate fee. Usually simply stating "PLEASE DON'T SPILT THE MEAL ON TWO PLATES" takes the steam out of their crappy fee!

It's not like home internet where you can share the connection, nor have I ever imagined it would be.

Another interesting comment. When DSL first started hitting our area in SETExas, in 2000, AT&T opposed us connecting more than one computer to the DSL modem with the use of a router. Of course, we know how that turned out, with ATT now offering their own router/modem. I keep my network open at my house, although my neighbors are locked. Occasionally, I see their laptops and other home wireless devices are connected to my network, maybe because it is stronger, who knows. But it is no big deal. But where is the line drawn?

I think eventually, competition will HAVE to prevail, and this will all be moot. I am really surprised we have seen this backwards momentum in a time when the big companies are fighting for retention. But I think it will turn back around eventually. Kind of like cell phone companies offering unlimited voice. Look where we were 10 years ago with cell phone plans. Eventually, competition has gotten us to where we are now. Let's hope this current stinginess turns around quickly.

garylapointe
Apr 10, 2011, 11:28 PM
As per tethering, hell to the NO am I changing to a tiered plan.

I purchased a phone with unlimited data. I was also told the phone would eventually have tethering (no prices or info, but I expected an increase).

But they never offered that! They offered to take away my unlimited data and then give me tethering (I'd even accept a reasonable cap on my tethering).

Gary
http://GarySaid.com/

garylapointe
Apr 10, 2011, 11:36 PM
Absolutely FALSE.

Call AT&T right now and tell them that you are grandfathered in the unlimited data plan but you want tethering now. You will have no problem switching at all!

Seriously, you've got the unlimited grandfathered plan and they've added tethering for you? How much money and what bandwidth restrictions?

Gary

garylapointe
Apr 10, 2011, 11:47 PM
Isn't it really DataPro 4GB with Tethering being complimentary?
From what I see, it's this:

1) Grandfathered Unlimited plan $30
2) 200MB plan for $15
3) DataPro 2GB plan for $25
4) DataPro 4GB plan for $45
Tethering being complimentary on DataPro plans of 4GB and higher

No, you assume you can share the 2gb evenly, and it's not its 2gb for one and 2gb for the other (right?).

G

garylapointe
Apr 10, 2011, 11:51 PM
EXACTLY!!! You are starting to figure it out... "you can't have it both ways". You either keep your grandfathered in plan -OR- You switch to a plan that allows authorized tethering.

But that's not what they sold me. They sold me an unlimited phone with eventual tethering (at an assumed extra cost), but they're taking away my unlimited.

We connect them as being similar, but it's not. What if they offered me tethering but took away my unlimited texting?

g

garylapointe
Apr 10, 2011, 11:56 PM
AT&T did have tethering on the unlimited data plan. It was offered when iOS 3.0 was released for an extra $20 a month.

When was this, I just googled after your post and see nothing.

G

wpotere
Apr 11, 2011, 05:36 AM
But that's not what they sold me. They sold me an unlimited phone with eventual tethering (at an assumed extra cost), but they're taking away my unlimited.

We connect them as being similar, but it's not. What if they offered me tethering but took away my unlimited texting?

g

Did you get that in writing? If not, a salesman told you want you wanted to hear to make a sale. Bottom line, you have nothing to stand on.

err404
Apr 11, 2011, 09:58 AM
Thanks for the reply.

What if I switch to the 2gb plan? Will we still get a tethering message?

EDIT: Also of interest is how they would even communicate with me. I can't receive SMS messages on the pseudo iphone. They could email me, but it seems that this notification starts first with a phone text message.

I wouldn't bother changing your plan yet. If you need to and are willing, you can do so w/o penalty after AT&T sent a notification. Besides, today the 2GB plan still wont officially support tethering anyway.

The iPad question is interesting because there is no iPad data plan which offers tethering. I would guess that despite being able to see your tethering, they would not take action until there is a suitable plan available to switch you to. Just hold tight for now and continue business as usual.

err404
Apr 11, 2011, 10:11 AM
What YOU and others on here REFUSE to acknowledge is that AT&T are unbelievably GREEDY, immoral and despicable for trying to charge people twice for the same data they already paid for.

It is a business relationship. It is less about right vs wrong than about legal vs illegal.

That said IMO I also disagree that their actions are greedy, immoral or despicable. They sold a service and clearly defined the rules to use it. Now they want to ensure that the rules are being followed (to the benefit of users who are following the rules in the form of less network congestion).

davelanger
Apr 11, 2011, 12:04 PM
I don't even have a freaking iPhone dude so spare me the lecture about what you automatically somehow assume I'm doing. :rolleyes:

Regardless, what you can and cannot 'easily do' is IRRELEVANT. If you paid for 150GB of data then you are entitled to 150GB of data. And and it's not that hard to DL a lot of data on an iPad, for instance. A computer is a computer. Just because it's smaller doesn't make it fundamentally different. Safari is on an iPhone, an iPad and a Notebook. And I don't think most of these people doing this are running Bit Torrent clients on their tethered connection. Many people just want to check their e-mail on their notebook. I don't see how that entitles AT&T to more money for the same data regardless of whether it's checked with your e-mail on the iPhone, iPad or iMac.

What YOU and others on here REFUSE to acknowledge is that AT&T are unbelievably GREEDY, immoral and despicable for trying to charge people twice for the same data they already paid for.

Some don't see it because they think the greedy rich are always right and that the average hard working person should bow down to the almighty rich people. They believe that the top 5% should control 99% of the wealth and everyone else should just take whatever they're dishing out. They want early fees, late fees, in-between fees, going to the bathroom while on the clock fees, processing fees, handling fees, baggage fees, pillow fees, sitting near an aisle fees, and a surcharge if your socks don't match your shoes fee. If you don't like those fees, you can just go without because you won't get the service without it. You must AGREE to the software terms, no matter how ridiculously unreasonable or return your opened $60 game which the store will NOT take back because it's been opened or pay a 25% 'restocking' fee. Too bad. But no, it's the person who is sick of getting constantly screwed by the system that is in the wrong.... :rolleyes:

We are talking about unlimited on your phone, not your ipad or your computer, and if you dont have an iphone and are not affected why are you even in this topic?

The only people who iphones crying about this are the people trying to cheat the system.

Do you really want all this people using computers DLing all this data clogging up the 3G network making it slower for everyone?

People already complain about dropped calls on ATT, do you really think they want to hear about people complaining about slow 3g speeds because people are DL torrents on their computers tethered to their phone connection?

pdjudd
Apr 11, 2011, 12:19 PM
But that's not what they sold me. They sold me an unlimited phone with eventual tethering (at an assumed extra cost), but they're taking away my unlimited.

We connect them as being similar, but it's not. What if they offered me tethering but took away my unlimited texting?

g

Unless it is written in the contract, they aren't "offering" you anything. Verbal contracts get trumped by written ones all the time.

Heck, even if you had recorded the conversation (and we assume that it was legal to do so since laws vary), it would legally meaningless since it never defined what "eventual" referred to. AT&T could easily say that the sales person was speculating and was not able to actually offer it. I am sure that it could be negated since the salesperson isn't able to define such terms - that would be someone else. At the worse, the sales person presents the contract and is not an enforcer.

In other words, not a legal offering.

Did you get that in writing? If not, a salesman told you want you wanted to hear to make a sale. Bottom line, you have nothing to stand on.

That's the bottom line. The most you could ever get out of a deceptive sales pitch is a no penalty exit. The contract gets cancelled along with any service obligations to AT&T. You are never going to get a court to enforce a verbal claim like that. The court is going to conclude that the sales person had no way to legitimately offer said claim since AT&T didn't offer it. You cannot force AT&T to provide something it never offered in the first place.

garylapointe
Apr 11, 2011, 02:27 PM
Did you get that in writing? If not, a salesman told you want you wanted to hear to make a sale. Bottom line, you have nothing to stand on.

I have an hour long Apple Keynote with them announcing the iPhone with tethering (coming to American carries soon) explaining that I'd be able to get tethering (at the time they were still giving unlimited data). There was no mention that I'd have to give up my unlimited data.

This was my first iPhone, I was not carrying over an unlimited plan.

Gary

wpotere
Apr 11, 2011, 02:32 PM
I have an hour long Apple Keynote with them announcing the iPhone with tethering (coming to American carries soon) explaining that I'd be able to get tethering (at the time they were still giving unlimited data). There was no mention that I'd have to give up my unlimited data.

This was my first iPhone, I was not carrying over an unlimited plan.

Gary

That is great, but they didn't mention in that key note that you would be able to keep your current plan. So, in fact, they have done what they said they would do. They offered you tethering but you had to switch to a new plan.

pdjudd
Apr 11, 2011, 06:33 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)

In fact apple has specifically allowed carriers to determine tethering accessibility. They never talked plans - just technical capability. Meaningless when you consider that tethering isn't a unique feature. Given that apple never defined rates or terms means bupkis as far as AT&T is concerned. They don't care.

aristobrat
Apr 11, 2011, 06:53 PM
I have an hour long Apple Keynote with them announcing the iPhone with tethering (coming to American carries soon) explaining that I'd be able to get tethering (at the time they were still giving unlimited data). There was no mention that I'd have to give up my unlimited data.
FWIW, the exact quote from the keynote was "Like MMS, this requires carrier support, and we have 22 carrier partners in 42 countries around the world that will be supporting this at the launch of iPhone OS 3.0, and more will be rolling it out later."

The term "American carriers" was never mentioned, nor was there any talk of any plan.

If you want to watch it again, skip 45 seconds into this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYjItnvnO40&annotation_id=annotation_823640&feature=iv

excalibur313
Apr 13, 2011, 09:32 AM
Hey Everyone,
I use 3-4 gigs/month on the unlimited plan and I got the text about tethering last week. I was waiting for the email to show up but instead I got a letter from some manager in my state. The letter stated that customers were their number one priority and they were offering 1000 free minutes if I bring that iPhone in to a store so they "can show me all the great features and services that they offer for that phone". (It didn't seem mandatory that I go in.)

This seems like an elaborate ploy to catch me but in a nicer way than the emails that some people had been getting. Have any of you received this? Is it just a coincidence or is something up?

wpotere
Apr 13, 2011, 09:38 AM
Hey Everyone,
I use 3-4 gigs/month on the unlimited plan and I got the text about tethering last week. I was waiting for the email to show up but instead I got a letter from some manager in my state. The letter stated that customers were their number one priority and they were offering 1000 free minutes if I bring that iPhone in to a store so they "can show me all the great features and services that they offer for that phone". (It didn't seem mandatory that I go in.)

This seems like an elaborate ploy to catch me but in a nicer way than the emails that some people had been getting. Have any of you received this? Is it just a coincidence or is something up?

Two different programs. I got the 1000 free min as well and did it via a text. If you got a text message, you have been flagged as a person tethering and if you don't respond they will switch your plan.

excalibur313
Apr 13, 2011, 09:58 AM
Two different programs. I got the 1000 free min as well and did it via a text. If you got a text message, you have been flagged as a person tethering and if you don't respond they will switch your plan.

I thought that they only switch it if you get the email explicitly saying that.

wpotere
Apr 13, 2011, 10:26 AM
I thought that they only switch it if you get the email explicitly saying that.

It isn't an e-mail, it is a text message.

MacU
Apr 14, 2011, 12:58 AM
We are talking about unlimited on your phone, not your ipad or your computer, and if you dont have an iphone and are not affected why are you even in this topic?

The only people who iphones crying about this are the people trying to cheat the system.

Do you really want all this people using computers DLing all this data clogging up the 3G network making it slower for everyone?

People already complain about dropped calls on ATT, do you really think they want to hear about people complaining about slow 3g speeds because people are DL torrents on their computers tethered to their phone connection?

Obviously there is a problem with the system when you have this many people subverting the assumed agreement to only use the data on ones phone, right? If a consumer pays for 2gigs, why would a carrier care what platform it's used on outside of blind greed? The model AT&T uses is retarded. (And I use that word in it's literal meaning) That's why there isn't any customer loyalty. You must me an exec there or something. No reasonable person would side with a communistic business model.

pdjudd
Apr 14, 2011, 09:49 AM
Obviously there is a problem with the system when you have this many people subverting the assumed agreement to only use the data on ones phone, right? If a consumer pays for 2gigs, why would a carrier care what platform it's used on outside of blind greed? The model AT&T uses is retarded. (And I use that word in it's literal meaning) That's why there isn't any customer loyalty. You must me an exec there or something. No reasonable person would side with a communistic business model.

Who cares about greed though? AT&T has a legal right to be greedy. I know that you dislike this greed, but AT&T is not alone. Virtually every single US carrier imposes an extra charge for tethering on smartphone plans. Full stop. That has nothing to do whatsoever with the notion of AT&T of enforcing their contracts.

If you want to rant about unfair business tactics, your best bet would be to talk to government regulators because so far they have not made the business of differentiating data illegal. And the general way that business operate is that if it is not illegal and they can profit off of it, then it makes business sense to do that.

marksman
Apr 14, 2011, 03:50 PM
I have an hour long Apple Keynote with them announcing the iPhone with tethering (coming to American carries soon) explaining that I'd be able to get tethering (at the time they were still giving unlimited data). There was no mention that I'd have to give up my unlimited data.

This was my first iPhone, I was not carrying over an unlimited plan.

Gary


That is very weak sauce on your part. They never said you would not have to give up unlimited data either, or it would not be part of a new package or plan.

You inference as to what it would be was just that, your own baseless speculation, not some kind of binding committment.

Obviously there is a problem with the system when you have this many people subverting the assumed agreement to only use the data on ones phone, right? If a consumer pays for 2gigs, why would a carrier care what platform it's used on outside of blind greed? The model AT&T uses is retarded. (And I use that word in it's literal meaning) That's why there isn't any customer loyalty. You must me an exec there or something. No reasonable person would side with a communistic business model.

This has been explained in this thread and others many times, over and over again. Clearly you don't understand what is happening, how the business model works, how the billing works or how the pricing works. Please go educate yourself before continuing in this discussion further.

Also look up what communism is while you are at it.

jesusplay
Apr 14, 2011, 09:05 PM
145GB this month, warning and still tethering....

AT&T can eat a male private part!:cool:

500Gbs this year:D

lokerd
Apr 14, 2011, 09:46 PM
145GB this month, warning and still tethering....


500Gbs this year:D

Wow! How? Or rather what?

Actually, the real question is that even though ATT warns, they will not actually switch you?

pdjudd
Apr 15, 2011, 12:07 PM
Actually, the real question is that even though ATT warns, they will not actually switch you?
I don't think you can state that. They never said they would do it by any specific date or anything.

err404
Apr 15, 2011, 12:32 PM
I don't think you can state that. They never said they would do it by any specific date or anything.

I read the warning as a plan change would not be made for the next bill. Rather it would be made for bill AFTER the next one.
Basically everyone is still in the grace period. It will be a couple of weeks at the earliest before we see whether automatic plan changes happen.

jlc1978
Apr 16, 2011, 07:18 AM
I read the warning as a plan change would not be made for the next bill. Rather it would be made for bill AFTER the next one.
Basically everyone is still in the grace period. It will be a couple of weeks at the earliest before we see whether automatic plan changes happen.
If the switch you the are changing the contract. Would that not trigger you being able to end the contract with no penalty, just as you could when the notify you of changes in fees?

wpotere
Apr 16, 2011, 07:34 AM
If the switch you the are changing the contract. Would that not trigger you being able to end the contract with no penalty, just as you could when the notify you of changes in fees?

Grey area as you are violating the contract to begin with and they have a right to switch you at that point.

Collin789
Apr 16, 2011, 08:30 AM
If they did switch you, could you not switch back to what ever data plan you had before?

err404
Apr 16, 2011, 09:37 AM
If they did switch you, could you not switch back to what ever data plan you had before?

Yes, unless you had the unlimited plan. Unlimited is no longer offered, so once you lose it, you can't get it back.

T4R06
Apr 16, 2011, 10:03 AM
i just got my CLEAR SPOT 4G. for $45/month with true "unlimited" and boy im getting 12mbps!!

pdjudd
Apr 16, 2011, 11:50 AM
Grey area as you are violating the contract to begin with and they have a right to switch you at that point.

I don’t think that AT&T would frame a contract that you could just get out of by a simple contract violation - it would make the whole concept of an ETF (and the whole contract) kinda moot. Contracts that involve a penalty for a violation are not going to have such a large and obvious loophole.

AT&T’s contracts are aimed to benefit AT&T, the only possible way that you can benefit is going to be when AT&T violates the contract. Not you. Of course AT&T is free to waive the penalty if they wish under a customer service guise, but they are not obligated to do that.

Vizin
Apr 16, 2011, 03:22 PM
.

pdjudd
Apr 16, 2011, 03:49 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)

i just got my CLEAR SPOT 4G. for $45/month with true "unlimited" and boy im getting 12mbps!!

How unlimited is Clear? I asked once and they said truly unlimited. Sadly with the current climate I'm suspicious of that claim. Would they be ok if someone used ~100GB?

I would be suspicious of any carriers claims when they use "unlimited" in their marketing. Too many of them define "unlimited" to mean that they will slow you down to a crawl after a certain amount.

In short, read the contract terms.

physicsguy13
Apr 17, 2011, 04:04 PM
When the Tilt2 came out on AT&T there were many users that were taking the SIM card out of their feature phone and switching into their new smartphone. This was allowing them to transfer their unlimited mobile web plan to their smartphone instead of signing up for a more expensive data plan. AT&T would not allow them to activate insurance on the new phone unless they activates the phone with the SIM that came with it.

I think that this is something similar, although I am sure many will disagree. AT&T no longer offers unlimited data but they do offer tethering. If you want the new feature they want you to switch. They will not be offering tethering to the unlimited plans because they want those plans to go away. People that are JBing their phones and tethering for free are just like others that have tried to get away with stuff before. You can argue that you are paying for unlimited data but the provider disagrees and they can always just decide to eliminate the unlimited data plans all together. My guess is that is what they will do.

pdjudd
Apr 18, 2011, 08:31 AM
I think that this is something similar, although I am sure many will disagree. AT&T no longer offers unlimited data but they do offer tethering. If you want the new feature they want you to switch. They will not be offering tethering to the unlimited plans because they want those plans to go away.
That and I doubt that AT&T would like people exploiting an unlimited data plan without restrictions.

My guess is that is what they will do.
I don't think that they can do that necessarily, nor do I think they want to be known for any sort of bait and switch activity unless they can show just cause. Not unless they want to violate their own contract. Contracts are two way streets.

reckless2k2
Apr 18, 2011, 08:44 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)



I would be suspicious of any carriers claims when they use "unlimited" in their marketing. Too many of them define "unlimited" to mean that they will slow you down to a crawl after a certain amount.

In short, read the contract terms.

They throttle with "excessive" use. So if you watch a lot of streaming video, you will get throttled. And I've traveled around with my Clear Spot and never got speeds more than 1mbps above a speedtest of the AT&T service in that same area. Most I've seen is 4mbps but generally we are talking between 1 and 2mbps in my area.

yg17
Apr 19, 2011, 09:09 AM
145GB this month, warning and still tethering....

AT&T can eat a male private part!:cool:

500Gbs this year:D

You're why carriers no longer offer unlimited data. Thanks.

jlc1978
Apr 19, 2011, 11:23 AM
Grey area as you are violating the contract to begin with and they have a right to switch you at that point.

I agree - it is a grey area. One issue is how do they prove you were tethering? Suspicion alone based on usage alone should not be enough to uphold such as switch, after all there are legitimate ways to use significant amounts of bandwidth as well.

Again, I don't know the answer. It might just be easier for them to terminate a user with no ETF than risk losing a court case (if someone decided to press them).

pdjudd
Apr 19, 2011, 11:49 AM
The only problem is that they don't want customers to abuse the system to get out a contract just so that they get a pricey phone at a subsidized price...

How they do this is beyond me, but I don't see them letting people out of their contracts.

toddybody
Apr 19, 2011, 12:37 PM
Most people are not under the granfathered unlimited data plans...and should be able to use their FINITE data as they see fit!!!!! Gosh that makes me furious. :mad:

Collin789
Apr 19, 2011, 08:19 PM
You're why carriers no longer offer unlimited data. Thanks.

I disagree with that. They don't offer unlimited because they want our money by charging us $10 per extra gig you use. But, then again, if they really wanted our money they could charge us something like $50 for unlimited...which would be crazy...but still...

jlc1978
Apr 20, 2011, 05:09 AM
I disagree with that. They don't offer unlimited because they want our money by charging us $10 per extra gig you use. But, then again, if they really wanted our money they could charge us something like $50 for unlimited...which would be crazy...but still...

Certainly. However, charging $40 plus + $10 is better than charging $50 for the simple reason it allows them to capture more users and thus more revenue.

Most people don't really care about tethering (or even realize it exists); they want a data plan that is cheap and lets them use the phone for accessing the web. So ATT offers several price points to get the people that will pay $20 (or whatever the current low tier usage cost) but not $40 and the people who will use more data and so pay $40. For the handful that want tethering they offer that as an added cost option. Tiered pricing results in more customers and revenue than one size fits all; especial since many of the $25 users wouldn't pay $50.

It's no different than McD's offering a la carte; value meals and a dollar menu - it's all about getting as much revenue as possible by offering prices that is attractive to different customer groups.

RenoG
Apr 23, 2011, 01:13 AM
It is a business relationship. It is less about right vs wrong than about legal vs illegal.

That said IMO I also disagree that their actions are greedy, immoral or despicable. They sold a service and clearly defined the rules to use it. Now they want to ensure that the rules are being followed (to the benefit of users who are following the rules in the form of less network congestion).

but see I don't get this and maybe its because I'm missing something.
I'm not using anymore data than I would be on the actual phone when I'm tethered. I'm not sharing the data with anyone eles at the same time (i.e. the all you can eat example), its me and only me using the data. So whats the issue? I like having the option to view stuff on a bigger screen, my laptop.

Vizin
Apr 23, 2011, 01:20 AM
.

srinivasan
Apr 27, 2011, 03:44 AM
This is why I bought the Nexus One.
Although I'm afraid I might be forced to let go my grand-fathered unlimited data plan in the near future. Does anybody know if adding a line and converting both it and my line into a family plan will kick me out of the grand-fathered unlimited data plan?




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hexonxonx
Apr 27, 2011, 06:21 AM
Yes, unless you had the unlimited plan. Unlimited is no longer offered, so once you lose it, you can't get it back.

Unless of course you still have an original iPhone. I was able to switch from the 2GB+tethering plan back to an unlimited plan by moving my sim from my 3GS back to my original iPhone and then reactivating it in iTunes. I was able to select my unlimited plan and the phone reactivated.


I then put the sim back in my 3GS and an hour later, got an SMS stating that I had been switched to the unlimited data plan for my 3GS phone. There is always a way back. :)

Azzin
Apr 27, 2011, 09:35 AM
Allowing tethering openly means users (in general) are likely to use more data. If you have a non-unlimited plan, it makes you more likely to get close to your cap. AT&T would prefer you get nowhere *near* your cap, because that's more profit for them. They'd probably prefer that everyone use 201 MB a month - enough so they have to buy the 2GB plan, while costing AT&T the least.

That's the only reason they charge for tethering on non-unlimited plans. They want more money.

When people say "I pay for the data and I can use it how I want", they make a good point, but legally they're wrong. You don't pay for 2GB a month - you pay for 2GB a month under the restrictions imposed by an extremely long, complex contract that you're expected to sign without reading.

Charging for tethering is *entirely* about greed, and people who get around it have no legal leg to stand on - AT&T is entirely within their rights to add tethering to your bill or kick you, because you signed a document allowing them to.

But that's just the thing, tethering doesn't give you a faster connection.
If for example where you live (or work for that matter) you get 2Mbps down, then you are still getting that same 2Mbps down when you tether.

Tethering doesn't give you a faster speed and therefore the ability to download shedloads more data, you still get the same speed down and can still only download x amount of data in any given day/month/week.

It's a technicality that AT&T will use in that the contract you signs says "no tethering" but to claim people who tether are causing issues for others is nonsense.

logandzwon
Apr 27, 2011, 10:27 AM
AT&T has a serious bandwidth limitation. They can not support large data users on their 3G network. There plan to fix that is to over build their 4G network.

Anyway, the "unlimited plan" is unlimited bandwidth to your iPhone.
However, I do I have a problem with charging extra for tether in limited plans.
Should be;
200mb $10
2GB $25
5GB $45

tether is free. just pay for what you use.
They could add an unlimited option, but restrict tether.

Azzin
Apr 27, 2011, 11:40 AM
AT&T has a serious bandwidth limitation. They can not support large data users on their 3G network. There plan to fix that is to over build their 4G network.

Then they shouldn't offer unlimited download tariffs. ;)

Anyway, the "unlimited plan" is unlimited bandwidth to your iPhone.

Agreed, and that's the drum they are entitled to bang.

However, I do I have a problem with charging extra for tether in limited plans.
Should be;
200mb $10
2GB $25
5GB $45

tether is free. just pay for what you use.
They could add an unlimited option, but restrict tether.

I agree, they need to update their policies to reflect modern devices, users and uses.

Azzin
May 9, 2011, 12:22 AM
Interesting article on how AT&T are tracking tethering and how to stop them seeing it: http://www.iphonedownloadblog.com/2011/05/08/how-att-recognizes-unauthorized-tethering-from-jailbroken-iphones

ZipZap
May 9, 2011, 08:28 AM
Many AT&T customers use their smart-phones as a broadband connection for other devices, like laptops, net books or other smart-phones - a practice commonly known as tethering. Tethering can be an efficient way for our customers to enjoy the benefits of AT&T's mobile broadband network and use more than one device to stay in touch with important people and information.
software developers leeds (http://www.leedssoftwaredevelopment.co.uk/)

Still...unless you pay for tethering, your smartphone TOS specifically forbids tethering without a separate plan.

There is not other rationalization that overcomes this TOS restriction which all AT&T customers must accept to get service.

I hate this like the rest...

charbhuja
May 12, 2011, 06:20 AM
The contracts are technically legal but at the same time probably the whole exclusivity is against some kind of monopoly law that is rarely enforced. Verizon hasn't affected pricing, so there is really no competition if you want an iPhone. Maybe if it was offered with every carrier. If we had some government regulation and oversight and a national based cell phone tower infrastructure we wouldn't be so far behind other advanced countries and be able to offer the iPhone on all carriers. Also I'd rather pay unsubsidized price and do what I want with it.

ZipZap
May 13, 2011, 06:05 AM
The contracts are technically legal but at the same time probably the whole exclusivity is against some kind of monopoly law that is rarely enforced. Verizon hasn't affected pricing, so there is really no competition if you want an iPhone. Maybe if it was offered with every carrier. If we had some government regulation and oversight and a national based cell phone tower infrastructure we wouldn't be so far behind other advanced countries and be able to offer the iPhone on all carriers. Also I'd rather pay unsubsidized price and do what I want with it.

Probably not.

rkahl
Aug 4, 2011, 09:31 PM
Bump

Mad Mac Maniac
Aug 4, 2011, 11:26 PM
Bump

Yup I guess this is relevant again. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out...

einmusiker
Aug 5, 2011, 12:23 AM
Yup I guess this is relevant again. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out...

why?

Sherifftruman
Aug 5, 2011, 08:04 AM
With the latest announcement, I was wondering if they were stepping up what they have been doing or simply finally actually moving the people who were warned months ago. If its the latter, it seems like much ado about nothing, or at least about no new info.

aeaglex07
Aug 8, 2011, 10:15 AM
I'm no legal expert but isn't this legal grounds to cancel your contract with AT&T without paying fees?

err404
Aug 8, 2011, 10:30 AM
I'm no legal expert but isn't this legal grounds to cancel your contract with AT&T without paying fees?

No. AT&T charging you for the service you consume is not grounds to void the contract.
Contract law would be pretty weak otherwise.

Amazing Iceman
Aug 8, 2011, 11:37 AM
I'm no legal expert but isn't this legal grounds to cancel your contract with AT&T without paying fees?

Whenever any contract is ammended or modified in any way, both parties have the right to agree or disagree to it. And if a party disagree, it has the right to cancel the contract without paying early termination fees.

Just ask a lawyer...

McJohn42
Aug 11, 2011, 05:07 PM
Everyone seems hung up on whether or not tethering is unauthorized based on the CURRENT TOS online. I signed a TOS back in 2005. Anyone out there know how to find older copies of their TOS, because they can change their existing one all they want for new customers, but those changes are not binding to existing customers. Find your old contracts, and post here how it compares to the 6.2 restrictions that everyone is whining about

McJohn42
Aug 11, 2011, 05:35 PM
"The only people who iphones crying about this are the people trying to cheat the system."
"Grey area as you are violating the contract to begin with and they have a right to switch you at that point."
"They sold a service and clearly defined the rules to use it. Now they want to ensure that the rules are being followed (to the benefit of users who are following the rules in the form of less network congestion)."

These are all statements by people under the CURRENT TOS who are unhappy with those who got onboard with an old TOS that offerred unlimited data and did not have tethering restrictions.
Quit crying that you can't get the same good contract we got, and stop implying that we are cheating the system because what we dot violates YOUR TOS.
Please stop referencing the online TOS or current restrictions for your sanctimonious condemnation of people who simply want AT&T to honor their existing contracts with old customers. If what we are doing is a violation of our existing contract, then why the need to have us sign a NEW contract/plan that forbids what our old contract did not?
Show me the words illegal or unauthorized or violation in ANY of the communication that AT&T is sending it's existing customers. They don't exist. They are simply trying to bully people into abandoning a contract they no longer wish to honor,,,,,, and getting a LOT of support on forums like this from people who are unhappy they can't get in on the old plans. If you are not on the old plan, and don't plan to violate your NEW AND IMPROVED TOS that restricts tethering, then you really have no reason to be posting your jealous rants here.
UNLIMITED data does NOT imply unlimited bandwidth as you jealous people would complain about. My unlimited data plan has the exact same bandwidth as your new and improved plans (slow, based on time of the day, location, etc.)

blevins321
Aug 11, 2011, 06:48 PM
Everyone seems hung up on whether or not tethering is unauthorized based on the CURRENT TOS online. I signed a TOS back in 2005. Anyone out there know how to find older copies of their TOS, because they can change their existing one all they want for new customers, but those changes are not binding to existing customers. Find your old contracts, and post here how it compares to the 6.2 restrictions that everyone is whining about

You signed back in 2005, but when did your contract expire? Whenever you renew, upgrade, etc..., you sign the new TOS along with all it's wonderfulness. And if you are just on a month to month basis, the original contract only said the terms were valid during the binding period. Meaning if you're on a month to month basis, terms, pricing, and anything else is subject to change.

McJohn42
Aug 11, 2011, 07:21 PM
Do you know what the word renewal means? The contract was "fulfilled" at the end of the year and has a clause allowing renewal of the existing contract. I have never had to review or sign a new TOS and I have never upgraded. When a contract changes, both parties have to sign a new contract, if this doesn't happen, the existing contract remains in place (even when RENEWED).
AT&T is not enforcing an existing contract as they would lead people to believe, they are bullying people into changing to a new more restrictive (and profitable) contract. The letters they send out say they are "asking" users that do not have an existing tethering plan to change to that plan and are interpreting non-response as authorization to do this. I called them, said I don't want my data-plan changed, and they backed down. They also refused to comment when I asked them to show me in my existing contract where I was doing anything unauthorized. They simply keep referring me to the online TOS and informed me that it hasn't changed since I signed mine in 2005 (I guess they take me for an idiot). WHAT company has a TOS that hasn't changed in 6 years.
You are correct that our contract allows either party to terminate the agreement (as per the ORIGINAL TOS), but they are reluctant to do that knowing that it could cost them a customer. They feel they have a better chance of keeping a customer if they can get them to VOLUNTARILY change to their new more profitable (for them) contracts.
So here is what will happen. A renewed contract is still a valid contract, and for those who continue to tether (legally) but refuse to transfer to the new plans (before their existing contract is fulfilled), AT&T will simply refuse to renew those contracts when the time comes and then you can do your little happy dance thinking it has validated all the inaccuracies in your whining. I don't mind whining, I just wish you would be truthful in what you whine about, we got something on sale and you don't think you we should be able to keep something you can't get on sale now. That's what you are unhappy about.

andrewsd
Aug 11, 2011, 09:36 PM
Somehow this doesn't surprise me at all. However, this is one more reason to stick at 4.1.0.

So far, the only real reason for 4.3.0 is Personal Hotspot, but since that is being monitored, then, I'll be happy to stick in 4.1.0 and give the finger to AT&T.
I know. I've have not received one of these message as I only tether when really need be but I should ha e stuc with 4.1. Probably going to downgrade. I have no idea why I upgraded to 4.3.x

cshearer
Aug 12, 2011, 12:54 AM
I've been reading over this thread for a few minutes, and I feel the point I agree with most begs to be reiterated.

I have my unlimited data plan grandfathered to me by Verizon for my iPhone 4. I play by the rules and don't jailbreak it (mainly because of my dev iOS 5), and therefore I don't try to cheat Verizon. Granted, I did do that when I had my HTC Incredible I rooted, but back then I didn't understand that I could potentially be punished by my carrier for such an action.

Again, it's been said in here, but you agreed to this service. Chances are, if you don't like it, pulling out now and paying the ETF will benefit you more in the long run if you truly think you've been wronged. At the end of the day, Verizon is trying to make a profit, which isn't such an evil thing. The market closed the other day, and APPL was the most profitable stock on the market. I don't see you fanboys yelling and calling Apple evil.

I think it's safe to wager that the people who jailbreak their phones and tether for free are an extremely small minority, and in the sense of running a business, you're not the kind of minority whose best wishes need to be taken into account. You are doing something that Apple has rather quietly taken a stance against, and doing something that breaks your service contract, respectively. You can't expect fair treatment.

I'm all for freedom of the things you pay for. However, if you break the rules you live with the consequences. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time, if you will.

NoStopN
Aug 12, 2011, 09:05 AM
I honestly don't think that AT&T would have to go to these measures if they had given people the option to buy an unlimited tethering add-on. Verizon offers that option for it's 4G phones & I've actually seen more people say that they took it & are happy for it. But, AT&T's network couldn't handle the strain of all of those customers using that kind of data, so they want to cripple everyone on it.

zweigand
Aug 12, 2011, 10:22 PM
Has anyone NOT on the unlimited plan been sent the warning?

NoStopN
Aug 16, 2011, 07:41 AM
Has anyone NOT on the unlimited plan been sent the warning?

If you're not on the unlimited plan, then you get hit with overage charges.

zweigand
Aug 17, 2011, 06:28 PM
If you're not on the unlimited plan, then you get hit with overage charges.
Yeah, I just wanted to clarify. I assume they don't really care about illegal tethering, they just want to get paid per GB (and to kill off more unlimited plans).

rkahl
Mar 6, 2012, 08:06 AM
I'm not a thief, I use my data responsible.

Its appalling that your so righteous to post such.

I have an unlimited plan, $30 a month, I use tether for a few things but do not go over 5gb a month, I have unlimited so it shouldn't matter, but I use much less then the one poster who claims 90gb a month to download movies.

Yes I think thats abuse.

I think anything over 10 to 20gb would be pure abuse.

but occasional tethering and under that 10gb abuse? No way.

I need to calm down because it bothers me that people are so brainwashed these days to accept what ever a company does.

It's just crap. No matter what a Contract says it can be challenged in court and we could be right and At&t wrong.

How is your "Occasional Tethering" going?

rkahl
Mar 6, 2012, 08:23 AM
keep ooooon swingin buddy :)

It's been a week since enough people saw this to post about it. Longer than that since AT&T took notice of it and started to address it. 1 week, 5 months...won't matter. Revisit this thread at the end of the year, see if people aren't still tethering with miwi, etc with no problem. This thread will be more of a joke then it already is probably just a few months from now...

"it's not gonna happen to me" mentality?....mmmm kinda. More like "it's not going to happen to a significan't number of people to make a dent in stopping this, and I could care less if it does happen to me."

Just wanted to revisit this topic 1yr later.

rkahl
Mar 6, 2012, 08:38 AM
I have decided to "watch" netflix movies on my phone 24-7, just to get my moneys worth out of my data charges.

You can thank people like this for the throttle.

----------

145GB this month, warning and still tethering....

AT&T can eat a male private part!:cool:

500Gbs this year:D

Bet you didn't download more than 3gb this month! LOL

vrillusions
Mar 6, 2012, 12:25 PM
I use HandyLight to tether, but only occasionally. I wonder if they can detect that. I don't know what method the jailbreak way uses.

I haven't been able to get handylight to work in recent versions of ios. It took a little messing around to get it to work with a linux netbook but it used to work. Every so often I'll try and get it to work again. In an ideal situation I'd have handylight setup on my iphone, share the connection from netbook, and then my ipad connects to the netbook so I could use my ipad for the 2 times I'm at a hotel without internet.

jesusplay
Mar 12, 2012, 01:16 AM
You can thank people like this for the throttle.

----------



Bet you didn't download more than 3gb this month! LOL

i haven't needed to, I stopped using data like crazy as of 6 months ago when I got fiber optic

manman
Mar 19, 2012, 06:28 PM
Just wanted to revisit this topic 1yr later.

Woah, crazy that I did this at the same time and nothing actually prompted me to do it...

I'm not sure why this is relevant again yet though... I'll read back on the thread and see what has been happening, but as far as my personal situation, you can HOLD DAT lol. Been tethering regularly with no probs, so my "it won't happen to me & could care less if it does" mentality hasn't been a problem so far ;)


EDIT:
hmmm, still not seeing much real news about any follow up on this 'crackdown' since the argument originally started. Googling for various combinations of at&t, unauthorized tethering, swtiching plans etc, I don't see any results with a date later than around august 2011. How did this exactly become relevant again? is this another case of a "crackdown" were only a small number of people were hit, or is there finally some real news here... cuz everything I'm seeing looks to me like I called this one exactly how it turned out... much ado about nothing, most people continuing to do what they do, and a year later no big outrage over massive 'automatic' plan switches, or sweeping lawsuits against people for this nefarious criminal activity....

manman
Mar 19, 2012, 06:49 PM
Ah, so I see a few of the threads here at least that refer to another 'crackdown' coming. I'm not sure yet how it's any different than the original one (yet), we have yet to see how many people actually get switched.

It seems like they want to crack down more due to usage than tethering per se.... Which is maybe why I've never had a problem, I don't think I use that much data.

Oh well, i'm moving to a gnex anyway since my job now involves working with the android platform...so... new carrier, new anauthorized tethering solution... not too worried for now at least.

Stanny719
Mar 19, 2012, 10:54 PM
Is everyone being targeted by AT&T using a jailbroken phone? Tether.com just released an option that is usable on iOS 5.1.