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MacRumors
Mar 18, 2011, 01:23 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2011/03/18/atandt-cracking-down-on-unauthorized-tethering/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2011/03/18/021016-atttext.png

ModMyI (http://modmyi.com/forums/iphone-news/755094-t-cracking-down-mywi-tethering.html#post5900724) and our forums (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1119488) have reported that some users are receiving notices from AT&T about unauthorized tethering. Tethering is the act of sharing your iPhone's 3G connection with another device. AT&T charges an additional fee for this activity.

Some users received the above SMS message with a followup email explaining tethering and warning them that tethering will be enabled if they continue to use that feature.Many AT&T customers use their smartphones as a broadband connection for other devices, like laptops, netbooks or other smartphones– a practice commonly known as tethering. Tethering can be an efficient way for our customers to enjoy the benefits of AT&T's mobile broadband network and use more than one device to stay in touch with important people and information. To take advantage of this feature, we require that in addition to a data plan, you also have a tethering plan.

Our records show that you use this capability, but are not subscribed to our tethering plan.
...
If we don't hear from you, we'll plan to automatically enroll you into DataPro 4GB afterMarch 27, 2011. The new plan – whether you sign up on your own or we automatically enroll you – will replace your current smartphone data plan, including if you are on an unlimited data plan. TiPb speculates (http://www.tipb.com/2011/03/18/att-cracking-jailbroken-mywi-users/) on how they are detecting unauthorized tethering:I think it’s one of two things. Since AT&T offers Personal Hotspot under iOS 4.3, they may have access to data they didn’t before, and they’re choosing to use it in a pretty crappy way. So if you’re on iOS 4.2.1 still (almost all jailbreakers are) and they see you’re generating traffic that looks like Personal Hotspot, they know you’re doing so without a plan. Once a jailbreak for iOS 4.3 is released, I bet it will make it a lot harder for them to track what users are actually tethering legitimately. Option two, they’re just going after heavy data users again and trying to bluff them into switching to a tethering plan and losing their unlimited data.

Article Link: AT&T Cracking Down on Unauthorized Tethering (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2011/03/18/atandt-cracking-down-on-unauthorized-tethering/)



gravytrain84
Mar 18, 2011, 01:31 AM
I knew this was coming sooner or later....:mad:

jav6454
Mar 18, 2011, 01:39 AM
Somehow this doesn't surprise me at all. However, this is one more reason to stick at 4.1.0.

So far, the only real reason for 4.3.0 is Personal Hotspot, but since that is being monitored, then, I'll be happy to stick in 4.1.0 and give the finger to AT&T.

TheRealTVGuy
Mar 18, 2011, 01:41 AM
Option 3; STOP trying to cheat the system, and START using your iDevice the way the manufacturer designed it and the way your carrier supports it. (Is it unfair? YES! Are all of us iPhone users getting hosed, even though there's now two carriers? YES)

And while you're at it, knock off the piracy with the napster/limewire/torrent crap.

(Yeah, I said it! SOMEBODY had to!)

Moyank24
Mar 18, 2011, 01:43 AM
Option 3; STOP trying to cheat the system, and START using your iDevice the way the manufacturer and your carrier designed it.

And while you're at it, knock off the piracy with the napster/limewire/torrent crap.

(Yeah, I said it! SOMEBODY had to!)

Do napster and limewire even exist anymore?

TheRealTVGuy
Mar 18, 2011, 01:44 AM
Do napster and limewire even exist anymore?

Probably not, I just felt the need to rant...

Sorry.

jav6454
Mar 18, 2011, 01:45 AM
Option 3; STOP trying to cheat the system, and START using your iDevice the way the manufacturer designed it and the way your carrier supports it. (Is it unfair? YES! Are all of us iPhone users getting hosed, even though there's now two carriers? YES)

And while you're at it, knock off the piracy with the napster/limewire/torrent crap.

(Yeah, I said it! SOMEBODY had to!)

Poor thing... he doesn't realize napster and limewire are history. Also, once the data hits my device, it's mine to do with as I please. Thank you very much.

>laughing_girls.jpg.tiff.

TheRealTVGuy
Mar 18, 2011, 01:47 AM
Poor thing... he doesn't realize napster and limewire are history. Also, once the data hits my device, it's mine to do with as I please. Thank you very much.

>laughing_girls.jpg.tiff.

Yeah, because ever since the iTunes store opened, I haven't had the need...

Unless it's Metallica, then I'm all for ripping those guys off, just to mess with them!

jav6454
Mar 18, 2011, 01:49 AM
Yeah, because ever since the iTunes store opened, I haven't had the need...

Unless it's Metallica, then I'm all for ripping those guys off, just to mess with them!

TBH, I've never used music sharing sites. I have actually obtained physical copies of the original CD and ripped that. Other hard to find songs I do buy. So, your whole napster deal doesn't apply to me.

As per tethering, hell to the NO am I changing to a tiered plan.

TheRealTVGuy
Mar 18, 2011, 01:50 AM
Poor thing... he doesn't realize napster and limewire are history. Also, once the data hits my device, it's mine to do with as I please. Thank you very much.

>laughing_girls.jpg.tiff.

By the way, I agree with you. Once you buy something, you should be able to use said device to its maximum potential. NOT have to pay to unlock its built-in features.

And by the way AT&T, all I want from you is a large pipe full of 1s and 0s. What I choose do do with them, or how I use and distribute them should be of no concern... Just one flat rate for a big, fast, data pipe.

Until then I'm stuck because I believe in playing by the rules, no matter how F-d up they are...

bradl
Mar 18, 2011, 01:52 AM
Somehow this doesn't surprise me at all. However, this is one more reason to stick at 4.1.0.

So far, the only real reason for 4.3.0 is Personal Hotspot, but since that is being monitored, then, I'll be happy to stick in 4.1.0 and give the finger to AT&T.

So if you're sticking at 4.1.0 and they aren't monitoring, then they should be monitoring 3.x even less, no?

All the more reason for me to stick with 3.1.3 on my 3G.

BL.

TheRealTVGuy
Mar 18, 2011, 01:56 AM
So if you're sticking at 4.1.0 and they aren't monitoring, then they should be monitoring 3.x even less, no?

All the more reason for me to stick with 3.1.3 on my 3G.

BL.

Wow... was multi-tasking supported that early, or did we not get that until 4.0. It's early here in Florida and I can't remember.

But hey, if its working for you... go with it!

rorschach
Mar 18, 2011, 01:56 AM
I use HandyLight to tether, but only occasionally. I wonder if they can detect that. I don't know what method the jailbreak way uses.

bradl
Mar 18, 2011, 02:01 AM
Wow... was multi-tasking supported that early, or did we not get that until 4.0. It's early here in Florida and I can't remember.

But hey, if its working for you... go with it!

No. it wasn't.

I rarely use it, and when I do, it is work related. I went the MyWi route after the BenM hole was patched up in iOS > 3.1.

BL.

brianbobcat
Mar 18, 2011, 02:45 AM
I use HandyLight to tether, but only occasionally. I wonder if they can detect that. I don't know what method the jailbreak way uses.

I did that exact thing today for the first time in like 6 months, and plan to do it again tomorrow. For the occasionally user, ME, paying the $5 or whatever Handylight cost at the time was well worth it. During my morning commute, on the few days I bring my laptop with me, and on the even fewer days I require a data connection, then AT&T can suck it. Other than that, I will continue to kill their network using my apps like Pandora, Netflix, and EyeTV, all of which are legitimate to use and kill their 3G a LOT more efficiently than the text-based websites I'm loading via my laptop.

linknprk
Mar 18, 2011, 02:52 AM
So if you're sticking at 4.1.0 and they aren't monitoring, then they should be monitoring 3.x even less, no?

All the more reason for me to stick with 3.1.3 on my 3G.

BL.

um... did you guys misread the article?
The article is proposing that they might be able to suspect unsupported tethering for people NOT using 4.3 because hotspot wasn't made available until 4.3

So if you stick with 4.1 or 3.1.3 or anything earlier than 4.3 (while using data in a way that looks like tethering)... you will stand out.

Thats how I interpreted the article.

marksman
Mar 18, 2011, 02:57 AM
Big Thumbs up AT&T. I am glad they are just taking it to enroll people into the 2gig plan and add tethering, saves people the trouble of having to do it themselves!

Plus I won't have to subsidize their data usage from their stealing bandwidth and access from AT&T.

I can't wait though, in a few weeks / months, though, when we start seeing people complaining how AT&T screwed them and changed their dataplan even though they did nothing wrong and weren't using MyFi and AT&T is horrible and a crook.

It is coming...

By the way the supposition as to how they are detecting this is likely way off base. It is probably pretty easy for them to determine it. I suspect Apple has included some kind of method for them to determine it. People who think it is not detectable just don't understand how it works/what it is doing at the device level.

pika2000
Mar 18, 2011, 03:00 AM
This is why I bought the Nexus One.
Although I'm afraid I might be forced to let go my grand-fathered unlimited data plan in the near future. Does anybody know if adding a line and converting both it and my line into a family plan will kick me out of the grand-fathered unlimited data plan?

jav6454
Mar 18, 2011, 04:07 AM
Big Thumbs up AT&T. I am glad they are just taking it to enroll people into the 2gig plan and add tethering, saves people the trouble of having to do it themselves!

Plus I won't have to subsidize their data usage from their stealing bandwidth and access from AT&T.

I can't wait though, in a few weeks / months, though, when we start seeing people complaining how AT&T screwed them and changed their dataplan even though they did nothing wrong and weren't using MyFi and AT&T is horrible and a crook.

It is coming...

By the way the supposition as to how they are detecting this is likely way off base. It is probably pretty easy for them to determine it. I suspect Apple has included some kind of method for them to determine it. People who think it is not detectable just don't understand how it works/what it is doing at the device level.

Someone is failing... hard

MacBacker
Mar 18, 2011, 04:17 AM
This is why I bought the Nexus One.
Although I'm afraid I might be forced to let go my grand-fathered unlimited data plan in the near future. Does anybody know if adding a line and converting both it and my line into a family plan will kick me out of the grand-fathered unlimited data plan?

No, you can have a separate data plan for family plans. I have what you are going to sign up for plus another 2 lines and all our data plans are different.

damnyooneek
Mar 18, 2011, 04:26 AM
stop gouging the customer. first we pay for 'unlimited' data thats capped at 5gb then they limit it to 2gb and force you to pay more to tether.

rhinosrcool
Mar 18, 2011, 04:49 AM
stop gouging the customer. first we pay for 'unlimited' data thats capped at 5gb then they limit it to 2gb and force you to pay more to tether.

I totally agree.

kntgsp
Mar 18, 2011, 04:50 AM
And while you're at it, knock off the piracy with the napster/limewire/torrent crap.

(Yeah, I said it! SOMEBODY had to!)

Napster and Limewire? What is this, 2002?

sammachin
Mar 18, 2011, 05:00 AM
Actually the way they are most likely doing this and the way most carriers do it is using some deep packet inspection kit or maybe even a transparent proxy.

They can look for browsing traffic on port 80 then simply pick out any users where the user agent string is that of a computer OS so Windows|Mac|Linux.

2 options to get around it are: either change your browsers UA to that of the iPhone although this will often give you mobile sites or better still send everything down a VPN, that way its encrypted and they can;t see what your doing just how many bytes :-) High VPN usage shouldn't be odd either as the iPhone has a VPN client so you could feasibly be using that.

(Used to work in a carrier designing these systems so I should know!)

rstansby
Mar 18, 2011, 05:01 AM
I don't think it is a bad thing for AT+T to prevent people from tethering to a laptop on an unlimited cell phone plan. Those people are just taking advantage of the system, and wasting bandwidth that the rest of us could use.


As far as I'm concerned it is the same as going to an all you can eat restaurant and sharing your food between two people, while only paying for one. It isn't a serious crime, but it is stealing, and you know that if you get caught you will have to stop. I'm not going to feel bad for these people that are using 5+GB per month.

divad1978
Mar 18, 2011, 05:10 AM
Option 3; STOP trying to cheat the system, and START using your iDevice the way the manufacturer designed it and the way your carrier supports it. (Is it unfair? YES! Are all of us iPhone users getting hosed, even though there's now two carriers? YES)

And while you're at it, knock off the piracy with the napster/limewire/torrent crap.

(Yeah, I said it! SOMEBODY had to!)

You do realize the phone, aka the system, was designed to do this and that AT&T is going out of their way to charge people double for what they are paying for?

It would be no different if your home ISP tacked on a $20+ charge each month for having a router at home.

I'm waiting for the class action lawsuit as this is wrong. The service that people have bought is not somehow giving them more bandwidth or a higher amount of download data simply because they are tethering through the phone. The phone can only download so fast to begin with so any device you connect to it will still be limited.

CountBoni
Mar 18, 2011, 05:16 AM
Hey mates! I live in the UK and according to what I've read, what american mobile companies are charging you is a rip-off! I pay £35 per month (tax included, about $55 USD) and I get: 2000 any network-any time minutes, 5000 same network minutes, 5000 any network messages, UNLIMITED internet, that's right, no capping, no "fair usage policies", UNLIMITED! AAAAND I can tether with up to 5 devices, (macbook and iPad in my case and even my mates iPod touch from time to time when we are out). No extra fees, no hidden tricks. And my iPhone is unlocked, so I can sell it when my contract finishes and any person can use in any country or any network. COMPLAIN PEOPLE!:apple:

robecq
Mar 18, 2011, 05:19 AM
They joys of an unregulated mobile industry..... being stuck with only 1 (until recently) choice of carrier, 2 year contracts, paying extra for tethering, PAYING for incoming calls (WTF:eek:).
I'm glad I'm stuck in over regulated EU. On the up side, you yanks get to play with all the new toys first :rolleyes:

fishkorp
Mar 18, 2011, 05:47 AM
I'm waiting for the class action lawsuit as this is wrong. The service that people have bought is not somehow giving them more bandwidth or a higher amount of download data simply because they are tethering through the phone. The phone can only download so fast to begin with so any device you connect to it will still be limited.

Will never happen. The contract you signed with AT&T specifically says the required data plan cannot be tethered without an additional fee. You agreed not to do it, they have every right to punish those that break the contract.

d0minick
Mar 18, 2011, 05:59 AM
Option 3; STOP trying to cheat the system, and START using your iDevice the way the manufacturer designed it and the way your carrier supports it. (Is it unfair? YES! Are all of us iPhone users getting hosed, even though there's now two carriers? YES)

And while you're at it, knock off the piracy with the napster/limewire/torrent crap.

(Yeah, I said it! SOMEBODY had to!)

LOL Holier then thou.

Hey, some sheep aren't meant to stray from the herd. Don't knock the others.

d0minick
Mar 18, 2011, 06:00 AM
They joys of an unregulated mobile industry..... being stuck with only 1 (until recently) choice of carrier, 2 year contracts, paying extra for tethering, PAYING for incoming calls (WTF:eek:).
I'm glad I'm stuck in over regulated EU. On the up side, you yanks get to play with all the new toys first :rolleyes:


The EU holds many models the US should follow. And many more it shouldn't. The hard part is agreeing on what lies on each side! :p:p:p

d0minick
Mar 18, 2011, 06:02 AM
Poor thing... he doesn't realize napster and limewire are history. Also, once the data hits my device, it's mine to do with as I please. Thank you very much.

>laughing_girls.jpg.tiff.

You did pay for the amount of data you signed for!

d0minick
Mar 18, 2011, 06:04 AM
Until then I'm stuck because I believe in playing by the rules, no matter how F-d up they are...

How could you be the real IT guy if you believe that? Never meant an IT guy that had to "tweak" a few things to get a system to work, the best toys do what the manufacturer never intended!

soLoredd
Mar 18, 2011, 06:07 AM
I don't think it is a bad thing for AT+T to prevent people from tethering to a laptop on an unlimited cell phone plan. Those people are just taking advantage of the system, and wasting bandwidth that the rest of us could use.


As far as I'm concerned it is the same as going to an all you can eat restaurant and sharing your food between two people, while only paying for one. It isn't a serious crime, but it is stealing, and you know that if you get caught you will have to stop. I'm not going to feel bad for these people that are using 5+GB per month.

Agreed.

What I do find AT&T at fault for (and other carriers, for that matter) is this seperate tethering charge. I have unlimited data on my iPhone plan, and while I'm not crazy to think I should have that for tethering as well, I do think if I make the switch to a capped plan I should be able to use that for ALL data to my phone.

soLoredd
Mar 18, 2011, 06:08 AM
How could you be the real IT guy if you believe that? Never meant an IT guy that had to "tweak" a few things to get a system to work, the best toys do what the manufacturer never intended!

I think it says TV, not IT. ;)

bushido
Mar 18, 2011, 06:46 AM
i'm surprised its not against some law tbh

i'm in europe so i can use tethering without any additional costs bc its just a rip off anyway. the provider enables a feature for u that is there in the first place and they give u the same data.

its as if t-online would ask me to pay extra for every additional laptop connected to my wifi

jchung
Mar 18, 2011, 06:53 AM
I wouldn't be so opposed to this if AT&T could accurately track data usage. A number of people are being billed for some fairly large data usage which does not match their actual usage.

Here is the thread on Apple's support forum. http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2450738

As you can see, its been going on for a while. No one noticed until AT&T introduced their tiered data plan.

Until AT&T gets their data usage accounting worked out, I will NEVER sign up for their tiered plan nor their hot spot plan. Imagine how much worse their accounting will be with hot spot. And you have no tools to determine the real cause of the issue.

What is really stupid about this from AT&T is that they are requiring the user to act to Opt Out of getting the hot spot data plan. I thought companies stopped automatically enrolling people even if they were notified. I thought companies were supposed to require an Opt In for subscriptions and services.

Did we just go back 10 years?

jlc1978
Mar 18, 2011, 07:03 AM
Some users received the above SMS message with a followup email explaining tethering and warning them that tethering will be enabled if they continue to use that feature.TiPb speculates (http://www.tipb.com/2011/03/18/att-cracking-jailbroken-mywi-users/) on how they are detecting unauthorized tethering:

Article Link: AT&T Cracking Down on Unauthorized Tethering (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2011/03/18/atandt-cracking-down-on-unauthorized-tethering/)

Hmm - that would be a change in your contract and might just allow you to get out of it with no termination fee - just as any the change would. Unless hay could prove you violated the TOS they can't unilaterally change it and force you to accept it; especially when they change the price.

jlc1978
Mar 18, 2011, 07:06 AM
They joys of an unregulated mobile industry..... being stuck with only 1 (until recently) choice of carrier, 2 year contracts, paying extra for tethering, PAYING for incoming calls (WTF:eek:).
I'm glad I'm stuck in over regulated EU. On the up side, you yanks get to play with all the new toys first :rolleyes:

Actually, you can buy unsubsidized phones and have no contract lock just as in the EU; plus we don't get charged extra for calling a cell phone from another phone - and given the calling plans and unlimited minutes between the same carrier / friends / evenings using minutes for incoming calls is a non-issue for virtually all US phone users - I'd rather have that then have to pay to call a cell phone.

justflie
Mar 18, 2011, 07:12 AM
I've never really understood this. If I'm paying for unlimited data, why does it matter how I choose to distribute it? What if i used the same amount of data on my phone as when I tether my iPad? It's flawed, greedy logic on their part. I know it's in the contract not to use it blah blah, but that doesn't mean it makes sense.

Eso
Mar 18, 2011, 07:19 AM
Additional tethering charge on an unlimited data plan: justified.

Additional tethering charge on a limited data plan: not justified.

I don't care what contract you've signed, any court would agree.

justflie
Mar 18, 2011, 07:29 AM
What exactly about "unlimited" don't people understand? Without limits.

Dan--
Mar 18, 2011, 07:32 AM
On a limited plan, the carriers have NO business saying how the data should be used. You pay for the data, and they do NOTHING to provide the service of tethering. But I agree that on an unlimited plan, tethering is a little like someone said, going to an all-you-can-eat-buffet, paying for one, and then sharing. Of course, you're not likely to be tethering all the time that you're paying for the service, so not exactly the same.

What the carriers should do is make tethering completely, 100% free for anyone on a capped plan, and replace the current "unlimited" plan with 2 plans - one that costs the same, but has a cap of say 2GB over the next lower plan, and another that's a true unlimited plan that adds and includes the cost of tethering.

This kind of cr*p makes me mad.

Dan

G5isAlive
Mar 18, 2011, 07:33 AM
Somehow this doesn't surprise me at all. However, this is one more reason to stick at 4.1.0.

So far, the only real reason for 4.3.0 is Personal Hotspot, but since that is being monitored, then, I'll be happy to stick in 4.1.0 and give the finger to AT&T.

actually you are giving the finger to the rest of us... not AT&T... AT&T has a business model and just passes on additional costs to the consumer that actually pays for these things. so thanks.

G5isAlive
Mar 18, 2011, 07:36 AM
What exactly about "unlimited" don't people understand? Without limits.

actually there was a limit. single person. not tethering. anything else is in fact breaking the agreement.

ghostlyorb
Mar 18, 2011, 07:53 AM
I hope not =/ this would suck. Good thing I BARELY ever use MyWi... but can they make me switch to a tethering plan? Not without my authorization.. hah!

auero
Mar 18, 2011, 07:59 AM
I don't understand the ranting of why AT&T charges more to tether. Sprint and Verizon do it too? Just because your jailbreak method doesn't work anymore shouldn't make you mad. The system caught up to you. Yes it's stupid to pay for extra data but that's just how it is and people are still going to pay for it so complaining won't do anything.

I'm glad those people who are abusing the service and using 6+ gb of data so they can tether are finally getting the boot. It bogs down the network. Unlimited doesn't mean unlimited in the fine print either. It's the same on every network so don't blame AT&T.

MoonDogg
Mar 18, 2011, 08:00 AM
My response to that TXT msg would be...

Did you know... I don't give a F|_|C|< !!!
and if you change my plan I will cancel my subscription and not pay a disconnect fee.... they may charge it... but I will never pay it.

I feel it is wrong to double charge someone for there data usage... It should not matter how you use your data... you paying for a certain amount and if you don't go over that then why should it matter. And to all of you that say there stealing something by tethering... there not... they paid for the data already... who are they hurting by using it on another device... no one... if at&t says they can't handle the network load then they need to upgrade there network.. or stop selling data capable phones. Oh and the thing about the unlimited plans... if its not unlimited... then don't say it is... that's false advertising... and I don't care about the fine print either.... they should not be allowed to advertise unlimited with out it being... umm.. well unlimited... and I know they don't offer it anymore... so if they want to get rid of it... when there current contract expires... take it away... done deal...


Before I get flamed to death here are some facts....
1. yes my iphone is jail-broke
2. no I don't tether... hell I only have the $15 plan and never go over it.

Kebabselector
Mar 18, 2011, 08:02 AM
I get: 2000 any network-any time minutes, 5000 same network minutes, 5000 any network messages, UNLIMITED internet, that's right, no capping, no "fair usage policies", UNLIMITED! AAAAND I can tether with up to 5 devices,

True, but once you move away from a major city 3's network is rather crap.

To be fair it's a good deal, but good luck leaving 3 when you decide to move on. Their call centres are awful to deal with.

ugahairydawgs
Mar 18, 2011, 08:03 AM
How exactly are they able to tell if someone is tethering or not?

Howdr
Mar 18, 2011, 08:04 AM
Additional tethering charge on an unlimited data plan: justified.

Additional tethering charge on a limited data plan: not justified.

I don't care what contract you've signed, any court would agree.

Tethering Charge not justified.
How can you say charging twice for the same Data is justified?

I pay for internet I use the internet. People have been brainwashed to side with the carriers.

You pay for a bottle of water $1
You pour it on your head then the person says Thats another $1 you owe
Why? because you used the same water you just bought to wash yourself not drink.

Its the same issue, Data = Data use is use, how you use should not be charged different since on the supply side makes no difference.

this is so twisted I cant tell you enough.:mad:

G5isAlive
Mar 18, 2011, 08:04 AM
You do realize the phone, aka the system, was designed to do this and that AT&T is going out of their way to charge people double for what they are paying for?

It would be no different if your home ISP tacked on a $20+ charge each month for having a router at home.

I'm waiting for the class action lawsuit as this is wrong. The service that people have bought is not somehow giving them more bandwidth or a higher amount of download data simply because they are tethering through the phone. The phone can only download so fast to begin with so any device you connect to it will still be limited.

I am amazed people keep justifying their actions. Phone companies are like insurance companies, they balance service with costs to make profit. They tailor their plans to do so. Making profit is in the consumers best long term interest. Unprofitable companies go out of business.

They can calculate if they introduce certain plans just how much gets used and not used and base costs accordingly. When people break the contracts to do whatever they want, it eventually costs the rest of the consumers in increased rates. The reason there isn't unlimited data plans is some people would go out of their way to use as much bandwidth as possible just because they could. So AT&T had to put on limits. But they did so with a business model in hand.

Sodner
Mar 18, 2011, 08:05 AM
Glad I got the AT&T 3G iPad 2. :D:D:D

I was really considering jailbreaking for theathering but unlike some have a problem with stealing.

And YES I do believe that if I buy 2 GIG of data I should be able to use it as I wish. But just becuase I want it that way does not give me the right to do it.

G5isAlive
Mar 18, 2011, 08:07 AM
Tethering Charge not justified.
How can you say charging twice for the same Data is justified?

I pay for internet I use the internet. People have been brainwashed to side with the carriers.

You pay for a bottle of water $1
You pour it on your head then the person says Thats another $1 you owe
Why? because you used the same water you just bought to wash yourself not drink.

Its the same issue, Data = Data use is use, how you use should not be charged different since on the supply side makes no difference.

this is so twisted I cant tell you enough.:mad:

this analogy is so stretched as to make no sense.

but even water, there are residential rates and commercial rates... you can't mix the two .. there are limits and plans.

you arent paying for the same data twice. you are trying to change the agreement after the fact.

dont like the agreement. dont enter into it.

Howdr
Mar 18, 2011, 08:08 AM
Somehow this doesn't surprise me at all. However, this is one more reason to stick at 4.1.0.

So far, the only real reason for 4.3.0 is Personal Hotspot, but since that is being monitored, then, I'll be happy to stick in 4.1.0 and give the finger to AT&T.
Per the posters on Mod MyI its all IOS's that have been targeted, its At&t system that was upgraded at&t rep stated this was a roll out against the high use people, yet a few got the message who used low data, not sure since it was based on history and not current.:confused:

FSUSem1noles
Mar 18, 2011, 08:13 AM
Bye, Bye, MyWi and TetherMe...

carmenodie
Mar 18, 2011, 08:14 AM
I went to att's site and 4 gigs of downloads cost 45 dollars. Kiss my @@@!!!
What's next? Charging per effing electron?

Howdr
Mar 18, 2011, 08:15 AM
this analogy is so stretched as to make no sense.

but even water, there are residential rates and commercial rates... you can't mix the two .. there are limits and plans.

you arent paying for the same data twice. you are trying to change the agreement after the fact.

dont like the agreement. dont enter into it.Sir it is perfect.

You are paying for the same thing.

I have an unlimted plan

and I never have gone over 5gb

if one has a 2gb plan and never goes over and we both surf on the internet
Tethering whats the difference?

I have no idea why you can't understand Data=Data
Water=Water
both are pure
the logic so you understand

I drink water = use Data on the phone
I pour water over my head = Data through tethering

So its valid. Using the same amount of substance, what we pay for, to do things in different ways, what should not matter.

Amount should be the issue not how I used it.

even my 10 year old son LOL when we talked about this, he said he doesn't understand why you would pay twice for the same thing.

Obviously it escapes you.

vincenz
Mar 18, 2011, 08:16 AM
I'm just surprised they haven't done this sooner :eek:

Chris Blount
Mar 18, 2011, 08:19 AM
I'm happy to see some of the responsible replies here. I also say bravo to AT&T. It seems like whenever a thread like this comes up, it brings out the MacRumors den of thieves who like to circumvent data plans and steal data that the rest of us our paying for.

I like the teathering plan and don't mind paying for it. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't have subscribed. Simple as that. Nobody is twisting my arm.

I will agree that AT&T is taking us to the cleaners. It sucks, but I either don't give them my money or suck it up. We all make choices. Mine is simply that I won't steal to get what I want.

Howdr
Mar 18, 2011, 08:20 AM
Glad I got the AT&T 3G iPad 2. :D:D:D

I was really considering jailbreaking for theathering but unlike some have a problem with stealing.

And YES I do believe that if I buy 2 GIG of data I should be able to use it as I wish. But just becuase I want it that way does not give me the right to do it.Its stealing because At&t says so? Really? How about At&t stealing from us? They are charging twice for the same Data, that is stealing from the users.

No offense but I think people are brainwashed.

In Europe and even here in the US there are many carriers who do not charge for tethering because honestly I think charging is not ethical.

Just because a thief (At&t) gets away with it does not make it right.

The law does not monitor contracts, it waits for us to complain and bring it to the judge. Maybe its time for a class action.

LegendKillerUK
Mar 18, 2011, 08:22 AM
You agreed to a contract. Live with it or pay to get out of it, couldn't be simpler.

LegendKillerUK
Mar 18, 2011, 08:24 AM
I pour water over my head = Data through tethering

Don't even get me started on how ridiculous that sounds.

FSUSem1noles
Mar 18, 2011, 08:24 AM
Sir it is perfect.

You are paying for the same thing.

I have an unlimted plan

and I never have gone over 5gb

if one has a 2gb plan and never goes over and we both surf on the internet
Tethering whats the difference?

I have no idea why you can't understand Data=Data
Water=Water
both are pure
the logic so you understand

I drink water = use Data on the phone
I pour water over my head = Data through tethering

So its valid. Using the same amount of substance, what we pay for, to do things in different ways, what should not matter.

Amount should be the issue not how I used it.

even my 10 year old son LOL when we talked about this, he said he doesn't understand why you would pay twice for the same thing.

Obviously it escapes you.

Let's try explaining it this way...

When you subscribe to cable, you pick a package that provides you with the channels that you want. There are various packages, but ultimately it's all just video streaming over a cable (bits in this day and age, not analog)...

Based on yours and others arguements, why can't we all just pay for basic cable and get all 500+ channels plus the premium channels for free? Very simply, you're paying for a package with specific features....

With your cellular service, you chose a package that meets your needs. You have 3 options for data plans at this point, well, 4 technically...

1) Your grandfathered unlimited plan

2) 250mb

3) Data Pro 2GB

4) Data Pro 2GB + Tethering 2GB for a total of 4GB....

Tethering is not the same as using the data on your device, essentially tethering is using your phone as a modem. You data plan (which I'm assuming is either unlimited or 250mb) does not include the feature of using your phone as a modem, that's what the extra charge is for....

If you want to tether, you need to pay for the appropriate package. Just like if you want HBO, Showtime, or HDTV you need to pay for the appropriate cable package...

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 08:24 AM
If you are currently on an unlimited plan, sorry - you can't complain about this new development. You agreed to TOS which stated clearly what you could and could not do with your data. Unlimited data is for PHONE use - not for other devices you can hook up to. ATT and other carrier's bandwidth isn't meant to support as many devices as you want on your unlimited plan.

Now... that being said...

Those who are on a 2gb, or whatever LIMITED plan - should be able to do whatever you want with your data. You've paid for a set allotment - and whether you use that on your phone or elsewhere doesn't matter.

There's a clear distinction between unlimited and capped in terms of what you are ENTITLED to or not.

Howdr
Mar 18, 2011, 08:26 AM
I'm happy to see some of the responsible replies here. I also say bravo to AT&T. It seems like whenever a thread like this comes up, it brings out the MacRumors den of thieves who like to circumvent data plans and steal data that the rest of us our paying for.

I like the teathering plan and don't mind paying for it. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't have subscribed. Simple as that. Nobody is twisting my arm.

I will agree that AT&T is taking us to the cleaners. It sucks, but I either don't give them my money or suck it up. We all make choices. Mine is simply that I won't steal to get what I want.
I'm not a thief, I use my data responsible.

Its appalling that your so righteous to post such.

I have an unlimited plan, $30 a month, I use tether for a few things but do not go over 5gb a month, I have unlimited so it shouldn't matter, but I use much less then the one poster who claims 90gb a month to download movies.

Yes I think thats abuse.

I think anything over 10 to 20gb would be pure abuse.

but occasional tethering and under that 10gb abuse? No way.

I need to calm down because it bothers me that people are so brainwashed these days to accept what ever a company does.

It's just crap. No matter what a Contract says it can be challenged in court and we could be right and At&t wrong.

sawah
Mar 18, 2011, 08:30 AM
Poor thing... he doesn't realize napster and limewire are history. Also, once the data hits my device, it's mine to do with as I please. Thank you very much.

>laughing_girls.jpg.tiff.


It is yours to do as you please with on YOUR PHONE! Not your computer, or your friends computer. This is why new customers can't get unlimited data anymore.
When you don't follow the rules, and you get caught, don't get mad.

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 08:32 AM
I'm not a thief, I use my data responsible.

Its appalling that your so righteous to post such.

I have an unlimited plan, $30 a month, I use tether for a few things but do not go over 5gb a month, I have unlimited so it shouldn't matter, but I use much less then the one poster who claims 90gb a month to download movies.

Yes I think thats abuse.

I think anything over 10 to 20gb would be pure abuse.

but occasional tethering and under that 10gb abuse? No way.

I need to calm down because it bothers me that people are so brainwashed these days to accept what ever a company does.

It's just crap. No matter what a Contract says it can be challenged in court and we could be right and At&t wrong.

So you're saying that if you steal $10 vs $1 million - it's not stealing? No doubt different levels of crime - but both are illegal.

But see my post above. The long/short of it is - unlimited data is specific to the device as per the TOS. If you're breaking the TOS, you're breaking the TOS - no matter how you or anyone tries to justify it - and ATT can "retaliate" as it's within their right as per that TOS.

I do not support ATT doing anything to those who already have a metered (limited) data plan. THAT makes no sense.

Howdr
Mar 18, 2011, 08:35 AM
OMG you still done get it:

Let's try explaining it this way...

When you subscribe to cable, you pick a package that provides you with the channels that you want. There are various packages, but ultimately it's all just video streaming over a cable (bits in this day and age, not analog)...

Based on yours and others arguements, why can't we all just pay for basic cable and get all 500+ channels plus the premium channels for free? Very simply, you're paying for a package with specific features....

No no, as long as you abide by the amount of data in the plan it should not matter how you use it.

You can't steal what you paid for, you buy 100 cable channels that is what you get and use

You buy 2gb and use 1gb you have used 1gb no matter if its on the phone or laptop. 1gb= 1gb

With your cellular service, you chose a package that meets your needs. You have 3 options for data plans at this point, well, 4 technically...

1) Your grandfathered unlimited plan

2) 250mb

3) Data Pro 2GB

4) Data Pro 2GB + Tethering 2GB for a total of 4GB....
Ok? the tethering give you 2gb for the money I see that and I have read the tethering and Data pro are added to total 4gb for the charge. So you and At&t prove my point thank you! Data=Data, they add it together and it is the same.

Tethering is not the same as using the data on your device, essentially tethering is using your phone as a modem. You data plan (which I'm assuming is either unlimited or 250mb) does not include the feature of using your phone as a modem, that's what the extra charge is for....

If you want to tether, you need to pay for the appropriate package. Just like if you want HBO, Showtime, or HDTV you need to pay for the appropriate cable package...

LOL no its the same use of Data as on the phone.
Tethering does not do something different to AT&t, its just using Data
you may not understand how Data is used from the source but I assure you there is no difference to AT&t when you tether and when you surf YOUTUBE on the phone.
To At&t Data=Data and its been their words not mine every time its printed by them.

So far I have not seen an argument that proves otherwise.:rolleyes:

bnerd
Mar 18, 2011, 08:35 AM
Hopefully this will lighten the strain on the network.

jmcrutch
Mar 18, 2011, 08:35 AM
This thread just shows that there are plenty of people in the world who think in self-centric ways - "I don't agree with this and I won't follow it - contract be damned."

Happens everyday - people speed on the highways because they feel that it's their car and they should be able to do whatever they want - they support their speeding by saying that studies show the speed limits are merely to provide revenue streams to municipal gov'ts.

Re: Napster and Limewire ... just delete and replace with things like Demonoid and ThePirateBay and it's all still relevant. The fact that someone isn't aware of the newer piracy sites just means that they've probably steered torwards legitimate pay sites like the rest of the community.

But hey, if we all played by the rules, I guess the U.K. flag would still be flying over our land as we would not have objected to the taxation without representation (whether the SS flag would have eventually superseded it is a different question - the might of this North American body would probably still have been sufficient regardless which flag, the Stars and Stripes or the Union Jack flew).

happy day to all!

[For the record, I think charging extra for tethering is unfair - but charging exorbitant rates for SMS is also unfair --- make that "was" also unfair, since there are plenty of cheaper methods now than using the carrier - hopefully the same will happen with tethering).

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 08:38 AM
OMG you still done get it:



No no, as long as you abide by the amount of data in the plan it should not matter how you use it.

You can't steal what you paid for, you buy 100 cable channels that is what you get and use

You buy 2gb and use 1gb you have used 1gb no matter if its on the phone or laptop. 1gb= 1gb


Ok? the tethering give you 2gb for the money I see that and I have read the tethering and Data pro are added to total 4gb for the charge. So you and At&t prove my point thank you! Data=Data, they add it together and it is the same.



LOL no its the same use of Data as on the phone.
Tethering does not do something different to AT&t, its just using Data
you may not understand how Data is used from the source but I assure you there is no difference to AT&t when you tether and when you surf YOUTUBE on the phone.
To At&t Data=Data and its been their words not mine every time its printed by them.

So far I have not seen an argument that proves otherwise.:rolleyes:

Data is Data. And a contract is a contract. If you don't like the terms of a contract - don't sign. Or break it and deal with the consequences. ATT starting to bill for a service outside the contract is a consequence of breaking your original deal.

Again - for those with capped data plans - this makes no sense and I agree it's stupid. For those on unlimited plans - it makes 100 percent perfect sense.

fifthworld
Mar 18, 2011, 08:40 AM
I believe nobody is abusing the system; instead, it's the system -unlimited, 2GB, 4Gb, whatever- that is unable to cope with the different needs. As AT&T can monitor the usage of the databand, just give us a plan where we pay based in usage, for example $5 for each block of 1GB, and be done with it!

sawah
Mar 18, 2011, 08:40 AM
The point is, whether or not you feel you SHOULD be able to use it any way you want, YOU signed the contract that says you can't!

No one had a problem with it and was all "Take Apple to court!" when they were tethering for free. But now that you're caught you want to complain about the contract?

Argue all you want about whatever, but the facts come down to you signed that contract. It hasn't changed. You don't get to be mad about it now. And somehow I doubt any of you are getting out of an etf if you want to leave because that's always been in the contract you signed.

Howdr
Mar 18, 2011, 08:40 AM
So you're saying that if you steal $10 vs $1 million - it's not stealing? No doubt different levels of crime - but both are illegal.

But see my post above. The long/short of it is - unlimited data is specific to the device as per the TOS. If you're breaking the TOS, you're breaking the TOS - no matter how you or anyone tries to justify it - and ATT can "retaliate" as it's within their right as per that TOS.

I do not support ATT doing anything to those who already have a metered (limited) data plan. THAT makes no sense.
Sir what is being stolen?

Data=Data

At&t adds the data together for a month of use in your plan
2=2=4gb of data a month, this has been explained by At&t over and over

So If I use 2gb and use it on the phone or tether its the same

I have unlimited

if I use 3 gb of data next month I have stole nothing

I used data

what is your point?

Crap about TOS, so what If I write a contract that you agree to buy Gas at my station for $2 a gallon when you fill up your car for a year. You then show up with a red gallon gas can I run out and say "The TOS says Car not Gas can" and I want to charge you $4 for the same gas now, this is not crap?

You know companies lie and steal from us everyday doesn't make it right.

I do not support ATT doing anything to those who already have a metered (limited) data plan. THAT makes no sense.

I see you have an issue with those grandfathered, like we are stealing because we have unlimited? At&t has unlimited Data for $45 a month, its called Enterprise I see it in my account every month.

It's not my fault you did not own an Iphone before unlimited was stopped.

Also how about the two years I paid for 3g service and could not get 3g in my area? I disputed this with At&t and won.

Stop making excuses for bad behavior (By At&t)

sawah
Mar 18, 2011, 08:42 AM
Sir what is being stolen?

Data=Data

At&t adds the data together for a month of use in your plan
2=2=4gb of data a month, this has been explained by At&t over and over

So If I use 2gb and use it on the phone or tether its the same

I have unlimited

if I use 3 gb of data next month I have stole nothing

I used data

what is your point?

Crap about TOS, so what If I write a contract that you agree to buy Gas at my station for $2 a gallon when you fill up your car for a year. You then show up with a red gallon gas can I run out and say "The TOS says Car not Gas can" and I want to charge you $4 for the same gas now, this is not crap?

You know companies lie and steal from us everyday doesn't make it right.

I didn't say it was right, but you still signed that contract. Not at&t's fault.

Sodner
Mar 18, 2011, 08:44 AM
Get em AT&T. Bust them all. Hold them to the contracts they signed. Fine them, cancel them, jail them. Do what's in your right per the contract to punish all the theives.

Tarzanman
Mar 18, 2011, 08:45 AM
Some of the responses on this thread are really amusing.

The people who are defending AT&T's actions are either astroturfing shills, or dolts.

Here's a newsflash: Just because you put something into a contract doesn't make it legal or make it fair. What if AT&T stipulated that they were allowed to come by your house and give you a wedgie every time you checked your voicemail...? Would you still be screaming about how its "justified" because its written on some lop-sided, legalese-ridden piece of paper?

The way that the current data plans are priced and more importantly *marketed* to customers, charging for tethering is double charging for data.

The correct thing to do would be to have multiple (at least 3) tiers of data and stop differentiating between tethered service. If the tetherers are using too much data then charge them appropriately. What AT&T is currently doing is telling you that you can use up to 2GB of data, and then trying to charge you extra when they see that you might actually use that much (due to tethering).

bobsentell
Mar 18, 2011, 08:45 AM
I see nothing wrong with AT&T cracking down. You signed a contract that specifically said you had no interest in tethering. But if you use it, then you lied when you signed your contract which means AT&T has the right to modify it.

Hey, it's better then them blackballing you and making you pay the remainder of your phone's cost.

LegendKillerUK
Mar 18, 2011, 08:47 AM
Here's a newsflash: Just because you put something into a contract doesn't make it legal or make it fair. What if AT&T stipulated that they were allowed to come by your house and give you a wedgie every time you checked your voicemail...? Would you still be screaming about how its "justified" because its written on some lop-sided, legalese-ridden piece of paper?

No, because that is clearly retarded.

bobsentell
Mar 18, 2011, 08:47 AM
Some of the responses on this thread are really amusing.

The people who are defending AT&T's actions are either astroturfing shills, or dolts.

Here's a newsflash: Just because you put something into a contract doesn't make it legal or make it fair. What if AT&T stipulated that they were allowed to come by your house and give you a wedgie every time you checked your voicemail...? Would you still be screaming about how its "justified" because its written on some lop-sided, legalese-ridden piece of paper?

This is a specious argument because they didn't put that in your contract. Your contract says you have no interest in tethering, yet you use it anyway. So it's not AT&T that's doing anything illegal.

If you think AT&T is doing something illegal, then take your dollars to Verizon.

sawah
Mar 18, 2011, 08:49 AM
Some of the responses on this thread are really amusing.

The people who are defending AT&T's actions are either astroturfing shills, or dolts.

Here's a newsflash: Just because you put something into a contract doesn't make it legal or make it fair. What if AT&T stipulated that they were allowed to come by your house and give you a wedgie every time you checked your voicemail...? Would you still be screaming about how its "justified" because its written on some lop-sided, legalese-ridden piece of paper?

The way that the current data plans are priced and more importantly *marketed* to customers, charging for tethering is double charging for data.

The correct thing to do would be to have multiple (at least 3) tiers of data and stop differentiating between tethered service. If the tetherers are using too much data then charge them appropriately. What AT&T is currently doing is telling you that you can use up to 2GB of data, and then trying to charge you extra when they see that you might actually use that much (due to tethering).

I don't agree with some of at&t's policies such as this. BUT I signed their contract and I abide by them. If you didn't like what you were signing and weren't planning on following it, you shouldn't have signed it.

They are NOT charging you extra to use the 2 gigs of data, they are charging you extra to use the data on a different device. I'm not sure how you feel like you are entitled to use it wherever you want. They are a cell phone company. If you want home internet, call a internet company.

jmcrutch
Mar 18, 2011, 08:51 AM
If AT&T were to allow tethering with unlimited, they know that ASAP people would start dropping their home internet en masse. Not saying everyone would, but plenty would for the same reason they dropped their home landline telephone. Will this happen eventualy anyway - yes. But AT&T, as the provider has the right to do as they see fit for their business and their shareholders.

While you might not use more data via tethering, if it were allowed with no extra charges, and on unlimited plans, AT&T would see a huge spike in usage that would not go down - and they would be doing so without any increase in their revenues (in fact, they'd see a decrease as noted above).

pmz
Mar 18, 2011, 08:53 AM
I didn't say it was right, but you still signed that contract. Not at&t's fault.

Not AT&Ts fault for selling unlimited data that they've violated and chose to limit?

Stfup, you have no idea what you're talking about.

AT&T, you've stepped over the line. I've contacted my attorney about this issue months ago letting him know something needs to be done about this flagrant misuse of the word unlimited, and AT&Ts attempts to back out of their commitment.

Forcibly changing my plan with zero evidence of anything is illegal and they will pay for it. Tme to start blasting them on Facebook, twitter, everywhere possible.

sawah
Mar 18, 2011, 08:55 AM
Not AT&Ts fault for selling unlimited data that they've violated and chose to limit?

Stfup, you have no idea what you're talking about.

AT&T, you've stepped over the line. I've contacted my attorney about this issue months ago letting him know something needs to be done about this flagrant misuse of the word unlimited, and AT&Ts attempts to back out of their commitment.

Forcibly changing my plan with zero evidence of anything is illegal and they will pay for it. Tme to start blasting them on Facebook, twitter, everywhere possible.

Please start swearing at me. They aren't limiting your data, they are limiting where in their contract you signed, they said you could use said data. Good luck spending money on a lawyer that's not going to do anything for you.

Grow up.

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 08:58 AM
Sir what is being stolen?

Data=Data

At&t adds the data together for a month of use in your plan
2=2=4gb of data a month, this has been explained by At&t over and over

So If I use 2gb and use it on the phone or tether its the same

I have unlimited

if I use 3 gb of data next month I have stole nothing

I used data

what is your point?

Crap about TOS, so what If I write a contract that you agree to buy Gas at my station for $2 a gallon when you fill up your car for a year. You then show up with a red gallon gas can I run out and say "The TOS says Car not Gas can" and I want to charge you $4 for the same gas now, this is not crap?

You know companies lie and steal from us everyday doesn't make it right.



I see you have an issue with those grandfathered, like we are stealing because we have unlimited? At&t has unlimited Data for $45 a month, its called Enterprise I see it in my account every month.

It's not my fault you did not own an Iphone before unlimited was stopped.

Also how about the two years I paid for 3g service and could not get 3g in my area? I disputed this with At&t and won.

Stop making excuses for bad behavior (By At&t)


And stop making silly assumptions about subjects you know nothing about.

I've had an iPhone for a few years now and have unlimited data.

It's a very clear line to me and many/most people who aren't so stubborn to think of the big picture.

You can only use x amount of data a month using your phone if you're on an unlimited plan. Realistically - even if you're eating as much as you can - there's a "limit" you can reach. Not because of ATT - but because of what your phone can actually access/handle. ATT's bean counters multiply/average out typical usage on a single device basis.

Now if you use that phone to supply 2,3,4 or more devices - you are using data in a way that was not agreed upon and isn't in line with what has been accounted for. If you don't understand this basic concept - there's little I can do. You can not LIKE it. But if you don't understand that there's a difference here - then you're lost.

Conversely - if someone spends money to buy a clearly finite (and smaller) chunk of data - and they want to spread it out however they want - I see little problem with that. The fact that ATT does bothers me. But it's not my problem as I don't have that plan and I don't tether using my iPhone.

This same thread/discussion has happened a million times before. Those that feel "entitled" will argue every excuse under the sun why they should be allowed and how evil ATT is. And those that can see the big picture of cause/effect will be seen by those people as shills or some other name calling word.

And I just LOVE (sarcasm) that people bring up wanting to sue or that they could go to court over this. Whatever happened to taking responsibility for ones own actions.

ETA:

Not AT&Ts fault for selling unlimited data that they've violated and chose to limit?

Stfup, you have no idea what you're talking about.

AT&T, you've stepped over the line. I've contacted my attorney about this issue months ago letting him know something needs to be done about this flagrant misuse of the word unlimited, and AT&Ts attempts to back out of their commitment.

Forcibly changing my plan with zero evidence of anything is illegal and they will pay for it. Tme to start blasting them on Facebook, twitter, everywhere possible.

ATT sold you an iPhone Unlimited Data Plan

Do you understand - it was an IPHONE unlimited data plan. They didn't sell you an unlimited iPhone + laptop + desktop + ipad + other device data plan.

It's always the guilty who shout the loudest because they really have nothing to lose, do they. At best - they might get away with it - at worst, their situation remains the same.

Sounds to me like you're pissed you got caught. That's all that's happening here...

spazzcat
Mar 18, 2011, 09:06 AM
Big Thumbs up AT&T. I am glad they are just taking it to enroll people into the 2gig plan and add tethering, saves people the trouble of having to do it themselves!

Plus I won't have to subsidize their data usage from their stealing bandwidth and access from AT&T.

I can't wait though, in a few weeks / months, though, when we start seeing people complaining how AT&T screwed them and changed their dataplan even though they did nothing wrong and weren't using MyFi and AT&T is horrible and a crook.

It is coming...

By the way the supposition as to how they are detecting this is likely way off base. It is probably pretty easy for them to determine it. I suspect Apple has included some kind of method for them to determine it. People who think it is not detectable just don't understand how it works/what it is doing at the device level.


How is someone stealing bandwidth, if they are paying for unlimited data. If anything ATT is stealing from them by not allowing them to use their data that they paying for....

jbgh
Mar 18, 2011, 09:07 AM
Forcibly changing my plan with zero evidence of anything is illegal and they will pay for it. Tme to start blasting them on Facebook, twitter, everywhere possible.

yeah that'll get them...

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 09:09 AM
How is someone stealing bandwidth, if they are paying for unlimited data. If anything ATT is stealing from them by not allowing them to use their data that they paying for....

ATT isn't stealing anything. And they are giving you unlimited data on your phone and your phone only because THAT is what you agreed to.

If you want to change the rules, then att can enforce the rules YOU agreed to.

pmz
Mar 18, 2011, 09:09 AM
Please start swearing at me. They aren't limiting your data, they are limiting where in their contract you signed, they said you could use said data. Good luck spending money on a lawyer that's not going to do anything for you.

Grow up.

Enjoy Greedy corporate thieves who break the law because they're big enough to do so, emptying your wallet.

You clearly have no knowledge of law whatsoever. AT&T made the biggest mistake of it's existence when it stupidly offered an Unlimited data plan, and then decided it couldn't support it. Since then, they've done everything in their power to back out of it.

No matter what fine print they include in the contract, they cannot sell an unlimited data plan, and then limit it, in any way. I have the legal right to jailbreak phone, and I have the the contractual permission to use unlimited amounts of data from AT&T.

Ironically, my monthly usage could be more than 3-4 gigabytes anyway...but that's not even close to the point. The point is how I use the data, and I have every right under the sun to use this data how I see fit. For web browsing, for location apps, for email, or for tethering.

AT&T has no ability, under my contract, to invent a new category of usage in an attempt to limit my unlimited data. BUZZZZ! Wrong. Illegal. Breach.

You yourself can grow up, adults don't lie down to be taken advantage of. Only little scared children do that.

aristobrat
Mar 18, 2011, 09:10 AM
Forcibly changing my plan with zero evidence of anything is illegal and they will pay for it. Tme to start blasting them on Facebook, twitter, everywhere possible.
Wait, you have evidence that AT&T has zero evidence?

Didn't think so.

For all you know, they're doing the same deep-packet inspections on their data network that wired broadband providers have been doing for years.

spazzcat
Mar 18, 2011, 09:10 AM
ATT isn't stealing anything. And they are giving you unlimited data on your phone and your phone only because THAT is what you agreed to.

If you want to change the rules, then att can enforce the rules YOU agreed to.


And they are not stealing from ATT seeing that they are paying...

CaryMacGuy
Mar 18, 2011, 09:11 AM
I will do what I want when I want on a device that I purchased. If AT&T doesn't like it, I can tell them where to go. They can cancel me and I will just take my business to Verizon. I am sure they don't want that.

LegendKillerUK
Mar 18, 2011, 09:12 AM
No matter what fine print they include in the contract, they cannot sell an unlimited data plan, and then limit it, in any way. I have the legal right to jailbreak phone, and I have the the contractual permission to use unlimited amounts of data from AT&T.

They offer an unlimited data plan for one device. There's nothing illegal about it. By sharing that data with other devices you are very clearly and very simply breaking the contract.

pmz
Mar 18, 2011, 09:13 AM
And stop making silly assumptions about subjects you know nothing about.

I've had an iPhone for a few years now and have unlimited data.

It's a very clear line to me and many/most people who aren't so stubborn to think of the big picture.

You can only use x amount of data a month using your phone if you're on an unlimited plan. Realistically - even if you're eating as much as you can - there's a "limit" you can reach. Not because of ATT - but because of what your phone can actually access/handle. ATT's bean counters multiply/average out typical usage on a single device basis.

Now if you use that phone to supply 2,3,4 or more devices - you are using data in a way that was not agreed upon and isn't in line with what has been accounted for. If you don't understand this basic concept - there's little I can do. You can not LIKE it. But if you don't understand that there's a difference here - then you're lost.

Conversely - if someone spends money to buy a clearly finite (and smaller) chunk of data - and they want to spread it out however they want - I see little problem with that. The fact that ATT does bothers me. But it's not my problem as I don't have that plan and I don't tether using my iPhone.

This same thread/discussion has happened a million times before. Those that feel "entitled" will argue every excuse under the sun why they should be allowed and how evil ATT is. And those that can see the big picture of cause/effect will be seen by those people as shills or some other name calling word.

And I just LOVE (sarcasm) that people bring up wanting to sue or that they could go to court over this. Whatever happened to taking responsibility for ones own actions.

ETA:



ATT sold you an iPhone Unlimited Data Plan

Do you understand - it was an IPHONE unlimited data plan. They didn't sell you an unlimited iPhone + laptop + desktop + ipad + other device data plan.

It's always the guilty who shout the loudest because they really have nothing to lose, do they. At best - they might get away with it - at worst, their situation remains the same.

Sounds to me like you're pissed you got caught. That's all that's happening here...

Quite simply, you're wrong, and worse you're creating fantasy. You claim tethering was not agreed upon. What was, exactly? Using safari? What about Opera?

I think not. Get your frigging facts straight before opening your mouth. AT&T screwed up when they offered unlimited data, and they're content to break the law in order to fix their mistake.

pmz
Mar 18, 2011, 09:14 AM
Wait, you have evidence that AT&T has zero evidence?

Didn't think so.

For all you know, they're doing the same deep-packet inspections on their data network that wired broadband providers have been doing for years.

Oh, is that in the contract too? Is that legal? NOPE.

All it would take is one class action lawsuit to destroy everything this company has done for 5 years.

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 09:16 AM
Enjoy Greedy corporate thieves who break the law because they're big enough to do so, emptying your wallet.

You clearly have no knowledge of law whatsoever. AT&T made the biggest mistake of it's existence when it stupidly offered an Unlimited data plan, and then decided it couldn't support it. Since then, they've done everything in their power to back out of it.

No matter what fine print they include in the contract, they cannot sell an unlimited data plan, and then limit it, in any way. I have the legal right to jailbreak phone, and I have the the contractual permission to use unlimited amounts of data from AT&T.

Ironically, my monthly usage could be more than 3-4 gigabytes anyway...but that's not even close to the point. The point is how I use the data, and I have every right under the sun to use this data how I see fit. For web browsing, for location apps, for email, or for tethering.

AT&T has no ability, under my contract, to invent a new category of usage in an attempt to limit my unlimited data. BUZZZZ! Wrong. Illegal. Breach.

You yourself can grow up, adults don't lie down to be taken advantage of. Only little scared children do that.

They didn't invent a new category. It's been there - and has always been in the TOS you signed. See the real problem (aside from your 5 year old tantrum) is that most people don't read the TOS before they sign.

The TOS are long, would take a long time to read and process. But consumers are too quick to just want the shiny new toy in their hands and sign away not realizing what they're signing.

But at the end of the day - that's not the company's fault. They are LEGALLY required to provide these documents so that a consumer CAN make decisions based on the terms.

Just like Apple MUST restate their TOS when they change/update iTunes with new features, etc.

But most people just click through and only "cry" post-facto when they get caught in something they feel is "unfair"

As a whole, most of the general public has been trained to be lazy - and that's why lawyers make a mint with frivolous lawsuits - regardless of merit or whether or not whatever side wins.

So back to your point - you signed a contract which outlined SPECIFIC usage for your unlimited data. ATT is now enforcing those policies. The fact that they waited or didn't enforce them previously is irrelevant.

trrosen
Mar 18, 2011, 09:16 AM
Will never happen. The contract you signed with AT&T specifically says the required data plan cannot be tethered without an additional fee. You agreed not to do it, they have every right to punish those that break the contract.

I'm thinking the only proper response to someone violating a contract is to end the contract. (that is cut off your service) I don't think AT&T has a legal standing to say OK you broke our contract so we're going to unilaterally enter you into a new contract.

PS Something for all you "ITS MY DEVICE" people to remember. If you bought it on contract it's not your device until the contract has been fulfilled. Until then the sale is not complete and the Phone is AT&T's.

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 09:20 AM
Quite simply, you're wrong, and worse you're creating fantasy. You claim tethering was not agreed upon. What was, exactly? Using safari? What about Opera?

I think not. Get your frigging facts straight before opening your mouth. AT&T screwed up when they offered unlimited data, and they're content to break the law in order to fix their mistake.

FAIL

6.2 What Are The Intended Purposes Of The Wireless Data Service?
Print this section | Print this page

Except as may otherwise be specifically permitted or prohibited for select data plans, data sessions may be conducted only for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing; (ii) email; and (iii) intranet access (including access to corporate intranets, email, and individual productivity applications like customer relationship management, sales force, and field service automation). While most common uses for Internet browsing, email and intranet access are permitted by your data plan, there are certain uses that cause extreme network capacity issues and interference with the network and are therefore prohibited. Examples of prohibited uses include, without limitation, the following: (i) server devices or host computer applications, including, but not limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, automated machine-to-machine connections or peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing; (ii) as a substitute or backup for private lines, wireline s or full-time or dedicated data connections; (iii) "auto-responders," "cancel-bots," or similar automated or manual routines which generate excessive amounts of net traffic, or which disrupt net user groups or email use by others; (iv) "spam" or unsolicited commercial or bulk email (or activities that have the effect of facilitating unsolicited commercial email or unsolicited bulk email); (v) any activity that adversely affects the ability of other people or systems to use either AT&T's wireless services or other parties' Internet-based resources, including "denial of service" (DoS) attacks against another network host or individual user; (vi) accessing, or attempting to access without authority, the accounts of others, or to penetrate, or attempt to penetrate, security measures of AT&T's wireless network or another entity's network or systems; (vii) software or other devices that maintain continuous active Internet connections when a computer's connection would otherwise be idle or any "keep alive" functions, unless they adhere to AT&T's data retry requirements, which may be changed from time to time. This means, by way of example only, that checking email, surfing the Internet, downloading legally acquired songs, and/or visiting corporate intranets is permitted, but downloading movies using P2P file sharing services, redirecting television signals for viewing on Personal Computers, web broadcasting, and/or for the operation of servers, telemetry devices and/or Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition devices is prohibited. Furthermore, plans (unless specifically designated for tethering usage) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device (through use of, including without limitation, connection kits, other phone/smartphone to computer accessories, BLUETOOTH® or any other wireless technology) to Personal Computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for any purpose. Accordingly, AT&T reserves the right to (i) deny, disconnect, modify and/or terminate Service, without notice, to anyone it believes is using the Service in any manner prohibited or whose usage adversely impacts its wireless network or service levels or hinders access to its wireless network, including without limitation, after a significant period of inactivity or after sessions of excessive usage and (ii) otherwise protect its wireless network from harm, compromised capacity or degradation in performance, which may impact legitimate data flows. You may not send solicitations to AT&T's wireless subscribers without their consent. You may not use the Services other than as intended by AT&T and applicable law. Plans are for individual, non-commercial use only and are not for resale. AT&T may, but is not required to, monitor your compliance, or the compliance of other subscribers, with AT&T's terms, conditions, or policies.

pmz
Mar 18, 2011, 09:20 AM
They offer an unlimited data plan for one device. There's nothing illegal about it. By sharing that data with other devices you are very clearly and very simply breaking the contract.

Please point that out in the contract, know it all.

Guess what, it isn't there.

Go look up the word Unlimited in the dictionary. Internalize and understand it. Come back here when you're done. Then come into a court room. Id like to sit back watch you (as I will eventually be watching AT&T) dance around the clear and concise definition of the word.

I've engaged in long, drawn out discussions with my legal pals about this very issue for several years, and they all agree it would completely impossible for AT&T to get out of court unscathed over this word "Unlimited"

Most of you people don't grasp the significance of the word in this case, which is not at all surprising given the crowd. (young and/or naive).

Most also think that because AT&T includes fine print in a contract, they can enforce it however they wish...which of course is a laughable fantasy to anyone who has sat through the first day of contract law.

LegendKillerUK
Mar 18, 2011, 09:22 AM
Please point that out in the contract, know it all.

Guess what, it isn't there.

Go look up the word Unlimited in the dictionary. Internalize and understand it. Come back here when you're done. Then come into a court room. Id like to sit back watch you (as I will eventually be watching AT&T) dance around the clear and concise definition of the word.

I've engaged in long, drawn out discussions with my legal pals about this very issue for several years, and they all agree it would completely impossible for AT&T to get out of court unscathed over this word "Unlimited"

Most of you people don't grasp the significance of the word in this case, which is not at all surprising given the crowd. (young and/or naive).

Most also think that because AT&T includes fine print in a contract, they can enforce it however they wish...which of course is a laughable fantasy to anyone who has sat through the first day of contract law.

y so mad?

I look forward to reading about your success against AT&T in the near future. Based on your immature responses I think we all have our answer on that.

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 09:22 AM
Please point that out in the contract, know it all.

Guess what, it isn't there.

Go look up the word Unlimited in the dictionary. Internalize and understand it. Come back here when you're done. Then come into a court room. Id like to sit back watch you (as I will eventually be watching AT&T) dance around the clear and concise definition of the word.

I've engaged in long, drawn out discussions with my legal pals about this very issue for several years, and they all agree it would completely impossible for AT&T to get out of court unscathed over this word "Unlimited"

Most of you people don't grasp the significance of the word in this case, which is not at all surprising given the crowd. (young and/or naive).

Most also think that because AT&T includes fine print in a contract, they can enforce it however they wish...which of course is a laughable fantasy to anyone who has sat through the first day of contract law.

Go look up the words: entitlement, spoiled, ignorance and unfounded :)

pmz
Mar 18, 2011, 09:24 AM
FAIL

6.2 What Are The Intended Purposes Of The Wireless Data Service?
Print this section | Print this page

Except as may otherwise be specifically permitted or prohibited for select data plans, data sessions may be conducted only for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing; (ii) email; and (iii) intranet access (including access to corporate intranets, email, and individual productivity applications like customer relationship management, sales force, and field service automation). While most common uses for Internet browsing, email and intranet access are permitted by your data plan, there are certain uses that cause extreme network capacity issues and interference with the network and are therefore prohibited. Examples of prohibited uses include, without limitation, the following: (i) server devices or host computer applications, including, but not limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, automated machine-to-machine connections or peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing; (ii) as a substitute or backup for private lines, wireline s or full-time or dedicated data connections; (iii) "auto-responders," "cancel-bots," or similar automated or manual routines which generate excessive amounts of net traffic, or which disrupt net user groups or email use by others; (iv) "spam" or unsolicited commercial or bulk email (or activities that have the effect of facilitating unsolicited commercial email or unsolicited bulk email); (v) any activity that adversely affects the ability of other people or systems to use either AT&T's wireless services or other parties' Internet-based resources, including "denial of service" (DoS) attacks against another network host or individual user; (vi) accessing, or attempting to access without authority, the accounts of others, or to penetrate, or attempt to penetrate, security measures of AT&T's wireless network or another entity's network or systems; (vii) software or other devices that maintain continuous active Internet connections when a computer's connection would otherwise be idle or any "keep alive" functions, unless they adhere to AT&T's data retry requirements, which may be changed from time to time. This means, by way of example only, that checking email, surfing the Internet, downloading legally acquired songs, and/or visiting corporate intranets is permitted, but downloading movies using P2P file sharing services, redirecting television signals for viewing on Personal Computers, web broadcasting, and/or for the operation of servers, telemetry devices and/or Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition devices is prohibited. Furthermore, plans (unless specifically designated for tethering usage) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device (through use of, including without limitation, connection kits, other phone/smartphone to computer accessories, BLUETOOTH® or any other wireless technology) to Personal Computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for any purpose. Accordingly, AT&T reserves the right to (i) deny, disconnect, modify and/or terminate Service, without notice, to anyone it believes is using the Service in any manner prohibited or whose usage adversely impacts its wireless network or service levels or hinders access to its wireless network, including without limitation, after a significant period of inactivity or after sessions of excessive usage and (ii) otherwise protect its wireless network from harm, compromised capacity or degradation in performance, which may impact legitimate data flows. You may not send solicitations to AT&T's wireless subscribers without their consent. You may not use the Services other than as intended by AT&T and applicable law. Plans are for individual, non-commercial use only and are not for resale. AT&T may, but is not required to, monitor your compliance, or the compliance of other subscribers, with AT&T's terms, conditions, or policies.

LOL and you believe that would hold up in court against the significance of the word "Unlimited"?

You are Flat Out Wrong. AT&T would hold up their fine print. The prosecution would wave it away, and so would the judge. It happens every day, and only most uninformed of legal amateurs are unaware of this.

spaceballl
Mar 18, 2011, 09:25 AM
To be honest, I'm not too upset by this. I've used an iPhone for tethering via jailbreak long before the official support came. I did that fully knowing that I was breaking the rules, and that ATT might mess with me, but they didn't offer an official plan so I knew the risks. I still jailbreak my phone and use MyWi, but I pay for an official tethering plan so I'm not breaking the rules.

Howdr
Mar 18, 2011, 09:26 AM
And stop making silly assumptions about subjects you know nothing about.

I've had an iPhone for a few years now and have unlimited data.
You made the comment Unlimted should be charged extra not me

It's a very clear line to me and many/most people who aren't so stubborn to think of the big picture.
I'm not sure you can speak for "most"
You can only use x amount of data a month using your phone if you're on an unlimited plan. Realistically - even if you're eating as much as you can - there's a "limit" you can reach. Not because of ATT - but because of what your phone can actually access/handle. ATT's bean counters multiply/average out typical usage on a single device basis. Agreed but unlimited should be unlimted

Now if you use that phone to supply 2,3,4 or more devices - you are using data in a way that was not agreed upon and isn't in line with what has been accounted for. If you don't understand this basic concept - there's little I can do. You can not LIKE it. But if you don't understand that there's a difference here - then you're lost. not true they have no way to know how many devices you are connected to.
But I use it for one device Laptop

Conversely - if someone spends money to buy a clearly finite (and smaller) chunk of data - and they want to spread it out however they want - I see little problem with that. The fact that ATT does bothers me. But it's not my problem as I don't have that plan and I don't tether using my iPhone.

This same thread/discussion has happened a million times before. Those that feel "entitled" will argue every excuse under the sun why they should be allowed and how evil ATT is. And those that can see the big picture of cause/effect will be seen by those people as shills or some other name calling word.LOL and you are not Righteous? You said making silly assumptions about subjects you know nothing about.
You do not know me or others, I contend most who tether are responsible.

And I just LOVE (sarcasm) that people bring up wanting to sue or that they could go to court over this. Whatever happened to taking responsibility for ones own actions. So take the law into one's own hands? We do not agree with At&t's interpetation of what is allowable to charge and what is overcharging, paying twice for the same product.

You clearly see it one way, At&t is right no matter what.



ATT sold you an iPhone Unlimited Data Plan

Do you understand - it was an IPHONE unlimited data plan. They didn't sell you an unlimited iPhone + laptop + desktop + ipad + other device data plan.

It's always the guilty who shout the loudest because they really have nothing to lose, do they. At best - they might get away with it - at worst, their situation remains the same.

Sounds to me like you're pissed you got caught. That's all that's happening here...
Whats the point? Tethering didn't exist when I signed up for unlimited.
If grandfathered and by your definition it means that tethering should not be an issue.

Data=Data and on that point for some reason we do not agree.

I think its useless to keep this up we will not agree.

cublah
Mar 18, 2011, 09:26 AM
I use HandyLight to tether, but only occasionally. I wonder if they can detect that. I don't know what method the jailbreak way uses.

They can detect in a lot of way, for instance since you can't use flash on an iphone or iPad, if they see lots of flash stuff they you are probably tethering, also certain popular sites detect mobile devices and send the mobile version of the site if you are loading the full versions of those sites they could detect tethering, these are only a couple of simple things but there are plenty more, so I don't think this is going to be limited to the latest iOS.

Just my thought on the matter.

pmz
Mar 18, 2011, 09:27 AM
Go look up the words: entitlement, spoiled, ignorance and unfounded :)

What the hell is your problem? AT&T has broken the law. Are you content with that?

Do you think it's appropriate for any company to sell an unlimited service, and make every attempt possible to limit it?

jmcrutch
Mar 18, 2011, 09:31 AM
sounds like someone on here thinks he's a lawya! Must have stayed in a holiday in last night.

jamespa66
Mar 18, 2011, 09:33 AM
They can detect in a lot of way, for instance since you can't use flash on an iphone or iPad, if they see lots of flash stuff they you are probably tethering, also certain popular sites detect mobile devices and send the mobile version of the site if you are loading the full versions of those sites they could detect tethering, these are only a couple of simple things but there are plenty more, so I don't think this is going to be limited to the latest iOS.

Just my thought on the matter.

Easiest way is for them to sniff the network traffic and look at the packets, the origination machines MAC address is listed. If the MAC address is not in the Apple iPhone list of MAC addresses then it is obviously coming from a tethered machine.

Jack Stacks
Mar 18, 2011, 09:33 AM
AT&T already gets $50 I'll be damned if I pay anymore for the 1 time a month I actuly need to pull up a full web page due to flash. Yes they get $50 for data, $30 for my unlimited plan (I use ~1gb) and $20 for unlimited texts which is simply insanely small amounts of data.

What contract did I physically sigm when I got my phone? The only thing I signed was a credit card receipt. All you idiots need to read up about Ma Bell and the **** they tried pulling years ago. It's headed back in that direction now.

To all the morons who say if you don't like it don't get it. Your right the carriers should rule over ours lives. We should simply not have phones if we don't want to grab our ankles and like it, every time the phone companies come up with a new way to stick it to us.

Weak minds will continue to be brainwashed by larger corporations site any TOS you want. Your the same people that argued about how AT&T needed 2 years to get MMS to work, and they were right. Probably the same lot that gladly ponied up extra cash to unclock Bluetooth and ringtones on your celluar one / vzn phones.

Howdr
Mar 18, 2011, 09:33 AM
LOL and you believe that would hold up in court against the significance of the word "Unlimited"?

You are Flat Out Wrong. AT&T would hold up their fine print. The prosecution would wave it away, and so would the judge. It happens every day, and only most uninformed of legal amateurs are unaware of this.
Yet Apple showed the Fine print to the US Gov and they got slapped in the face. Jailbreaking is OK and legal!

As I said : A contract does not make it legal, its just an untested agreement that may or may not stand up to court ruling.

With Jailbreaking there were those using the same arguments before.

I need to go good conversation

I think extra charge for tethering is not ok and think at&t is wrong. no matter the contract.

GL everyone

aristobrat
Mar 18, 2011, 09:34 AM
No matter what fine print they include in the contract, they cannot sell an unlimited data plan, and then limit it, in any way.
Even if your lawyer is somehow able to pull a Harry's Law and convince a court to rule that way, the end result is guaranteed to be that no US wireless carrier will ever offer an unlimited smartphone data plan again.

Big win.

LegendKillerUK
Mar 18, 2011, 09:36 AM
AT&T already gets $50 I'll be damned if I pay anymore for the 1 time a month I actuly need to pull up a full web page due to flash. Yes they get $50 for data, $30 for my unlimited plan (I use ~1gb) and $20 for unlimited texts which is simply insanely small amounts of data.

What contract did I physically sigm when I got my phone? The only thing I signed was a credit card receipt. All you idiots need to read up about Ma Bell and the **** they tried pulling years ago. It's headed back in that direction now.

To all the morons who say if you don't like it don't get it. Your right the carriers should rule over ours lives. We should simply not have phones if we don't want to grab our ankles and like it, every time the phone companies come up with a new way to stick it to us.

Weak minds will continue to be brainwashed by larger corporations site any TOS you want. Your the same people that argued about how AT&T needed 2 years to get MMS to work, and they were right. Probably the same lot that gladly ponied up extra cash to unclock Bluetooth and ringtones on your celluar one / vzn phones.

Well no not quite. Over in the UK I laughed at AT&Ts inability to get the ball rolling on MMS. But if you sign a contract you stick to it. It couldn't be any simpler.

O2 charge extra for tethering, guess what? I voted with my wallet and didn't pay it.

aristobrat
Mar 18, 2011, 09:37 AM
What contract did I physically sigm when I got my phone? The only thing I signed was a credit card receipt.
Where'd you buy your iPhone?

NikeTalk
Mar 18, 2011, 09:40 AM
That guy that used 90GBs should be the first one converted.

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 09:40 AM
Ignorance of the law and/or terms of the contract does not equal being vindicated.

Good luck with that. There's really nothing else for me to add. If you want to rant, post and have your go at a lawsuit - go for it. Have fun. Just don't expect to win.

PS - just because you keep stating things as fact doesn't make it fact. Good luck with that too.

jmcrutch
Mar 18, 2011, 09:41 AM
you can buy an iPhone without signing a contract (eBay, from a friend, etc.) however you cannot get service for the iPhone (in the U.S. at least) without entering into an agreement with a carrier, which a court will enforce as a contract, regardless whether there's a physical signature or not.

larrybeo
Mar 18, 2011, 09:43 AM
People who complain that your service provider is going to make you follow the ru:eek:les unnerve me with their uncanny ability to disregard all that stands to reason with the sustainability of your "toys." They are like little sissies on the playground crying after a Barbie Doll has been taken from them. Those people should man up and start paying for the footprint they leave on the network.

einmusiker
Mar 18, 2011, 09:46 AM
Option 3; STOP trying to cheat the system, and START using your iDevice the way the manufacturer designed it and the way your carrier supports it. (Is it unfair? YES! Are all of us iPhone users getting hosed, even though there's now two carriers? YES)

And while you're at it, knock off the piracy with the napster/limewire/torrent crap.

(Yeah, I said it! SOMEBODY had to!)

Thanks for the insight Debbie downer

G5isAlive
Mar 18, 2011, 09:51 AM
Sir it is perfect.

You are paying for the same thing.

I have an unlimted plan

and I never have gone over 5gb

if one has a 2gb plan and never goes over and we both surf on the internet
Tethering whats the difference?

I have no idea why you can't understand Data=Data
Water=Water
both are pure
the logic so you understand

I drink water = use Data on the phone
I pour water over my head = Data through tethering

So its valid. Using the same amount of substance, what we pay for, to do things in different ways, what should not matter.

Amount should be the issue not how I used it.

even my 10 year old son LOL when we talked about this, he said he doesn't understand why you would pay twice for the same thing.

Obviously it escapes you.

Sir,

I recommend you go to someone other than your 10 year old son for legal advice as it is clear you have no idea what a contract is. While you may wish the amount is the issue, that is not what you agreed to. Its also clear you don't understand how AT&T comes up with their pricing models and how your selfish actions effect us all.

Again, no one forced you to enter into an agreement with AT&T. There were other phones. And now that Verizon has the iPhone you can even switch carriers.

But you did agree, and now you are operating outside that agreement and crying foul. Sorry, the foul is on you. It doesn't matter if you think they are charging too much etc, any more than you can go in to a store and buy one bottle and steal one bottle of your beloved water because you think their price is too high.

If you feel you are operating under your contract legally, then have the backbone to enter into legal action. I am sure there is a class action hungry lawyer who would love to take on AT&T for some quick bucks, if in fact you do have a case.

But we both know, you don't have a case because you are in fact operating outside the contract.

Just because you can fool a 10 year old into justifying your actions, does not mean you can fool the rest of us.

RaNdOm
Mar 18, 2011, 09:51 AM
So just took a look at my bill and I see that there are two charges on there for 1Kb under "wap.cingular" for the two times that I tested tether on my jailbroken phone using the TetherMe app from Cydia. All other data charges like streaming Pandora or other radio apps just show up at "phone" on my bill. So it seems that they have indeed started breaking out the type of data traffic used to monitor tethering. I don't know if it would then be possible to start masking the tethering as Pandora. I currently stream radio and video on my phone to the tune of 3+Gb a month and haven't tethered other than to test the function.

InsanelyApple
Mar 18, 2011, 09:53 AM
Hey mates! I live in the UK and according to what I've read, what american mobile companies are charging you is a rip-off! I pay £35 per month (tax included, about $55 USD) and I get: 2000 any network-any time minutes, 5000 same network minutes, 5000 any network messages, UNLIMITED internet, that's right, no capping, no "fair usage policies", UNLIMITED! AAAAND I can tether with up to 5 devices, (macbook and iPad in my case and even my mates iPod touch from time to time when we are out). No extra fees, no hidden tricks. And my iPhone is unlocked, so I can sell it when my contract finishes and any person can use in any country or any network. COMPLAIN PEOPLE!:apple:

We do but the government is run by corporations. Nobody cares about the lower 98% of the people in this nation. The government only cares about the top 2% of money earners. America isn't great, and I wish I lived in Europe. Heck, I bet even China is better than this place.:rolleyes:

Eso
Mar 18, 2011, 09:53 AM
Sir it is perfect.

You are paying for the same thing.

I have an unlimted plan

and I never have gone over 5gb

if one has a 2gb plan and never goes over and we both surf on the internet
Tethering whats the difference?

It's easy to make the argument unlimited data plans are priced according to an average amount of data that wireless devices use. The average amount of data used while tethering can be shown to be substantially higher, resulting in higher costs, and justifying a higher price. The key is that their argument may rest upon the price of providing unlimited data. You argument rests upon the amount of data used, however in either case (whether tethered or not) users can use an unlimited amount of data.

CylonGlitch
Mar 18, 2011, 09:55 AM
Those of you who are so upset over this, please, get a lawyer, and start a class action lawsuit. Let's get this matter settled, should we, or should we not be allowed to use our data any way we want?

I'm not a lawyer, but I do think we should be allowed to use our data how we want. If you're on the 2GB plan, who cares if you use 2GB tethering or 2GB of emails, you should be allowed to use it any way you want.

With an unlimited plan, yeah, there needs to be something in place because truly unlimited just bring out a few *******s who abuse it and makes life miserable for everyone.

Still; let a judge decide, get this going and see who finally wins. Best case, AT&T loses and we get tethering for our data plans. Worst case, AT&T offers no unlimited plans anymore and at the end of every contract EVERYONE has to get off, and you still have to pay for tethering. I'm guessing we'll see something in the middle. You can stay on unlimited, but are not allowed to tether, or you can move to a capped plan (2gb, 4gb, etc..) but can use it any way you want.

Go for it, make it happen, let's get it settled!

cdembek
Mar 18, 2011, 10:04 AM
I'm waiting for the class action lawsuit as this is wrong.

X2 - I think they are going to require "real" proof that the user is tethering. What is to say the user is not just using a lot of data via the phone? I am sorry, but this really appears of a way to transfer people away from the unlimited plan.

Another reason for folks to move over to Verizon

fleggy
Mar 18, 2011, 10:04 AM
Even if your lawyer is somehow able to pull a Harry's Law and convince a court to rule that way, the end result is guaranteed to be that no US wireless carrier will ever offer an unlimited smartphone data plan again.

Big win.

Firstly - I am no lawyer, and will not pretend to be.

Absolutely agree with this (above). AT&T or any other carrier are not required by law to sell you something. "Management reserve the right to sell".

I am also confused by folks stating that "unlimited means unlimited". How are you going to enforce this? By sighting the same contract you think can be ripped up? You can't pick and choose the paragraphs to suit your viewpoint/case.

The outcome will be simple...AT&T will hold their hands up - they got it wrong, and when contracts end, they will refuse to renew them (goodbye GF plans).

Sure - if you manage to win this class action before your contract ends, then you may get a little unlimited tethering for a while, but even if signing today...2 years? No chance. It will take years. Very short sighted, me thinks.

Eso
Mar 18, 2011, 10:04 AM
you can buy an iPhone without signing a contract (eBay, from a friend, etc.) however you cannot get service for the iPhone (in the U.S. at least) without entering into an agreement with a carrier, which a court will enforce as a contract, regardless whether there's a physical signature or not.

You misunderstand the role of the courts. The court does not enforce contracts. Instead, their role is to determine the validity of said contract. Both sides may argue as to why the terms of the contract are justified or not, and the court will rule in favor of one or the other. The court will either uphold the terms of the contract or declare them to be invalid.

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 10:09 AM
X2 - I think they are going to require "real" proof that the user is tethering. What is to say the user is not just using a lot of data via the phone? I am sorry, but this really appears of a way to transfer people away from the unlimited plan.

Another reason for folks to move over to Verizon

The incorrect assumption would be that ATT could never or can't or however you want to phrase it determine if you are using date via tether or not.

And there are always ways. As someone who works for a major IT firm - there are always ways.

Just because ATT didn't act on it before doesn't mean they couldn't tell. And just because they didn't act on it before - doesn't mean they aren't entitled to do it now. It's at their discretion as to pursue or not pursue breaches in the agreement.

alfonsog
Mar 18, 2011, 10:11 AM
I believe nobody is abusing the system; instead, it's the system -unlimited, 2GB, 4Gb, whatever- that is unable to cope with the different needs. As AT&T can monitor the usage of the databand, just give us a plan where we pay based in usage, for example $5 for each block of 1GB, and be done with it!


That seems like the best and most fair system for users and the company. Pay for what you use. Of course the company makes a lot more profit by overselling plans and hoping people underuse the minutes and/or data.

As for the unlimited plan I'm sure they can phase out the grandfathering, they can choose not to renew your 2-year contract and force you to sign a new one. They just don't want to risk losing a customer for now, but then again where else can you go; Verizon said they will be dropping the unlimited soon as well.

The contracts are technically legal but at the same time probably the whole exclusivity is against some kind of monopoly law that is rarely enforced. Verizon hasn't affected pricing, so there is really no competition if you want an iPhone. Maybe if it was offered with every carrier. If we had some government regulation and oversight and a national based cell phone tower infrastructure we wouldn't be so far behind other advanced countries and be able to offer the iPhone on all carriers. Also I'd rather pay unsubsidized price and do what I want with it.

dlcrow
Mar 18, 2011, 10:23 AM
How exactly are they able to tell if someone is tethering or not?

Every OS and application creates network data in a way that network sniffing can do a pretty good job of detecting where it is coming from.

In the simplest case, browsers put User-Agent strings into every HTTP request. For a more complex case, just looking at the TCP packets can often tell you where they came from. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP/IP_stack_fingerprinting for more details.

It's not a hard problem to tell if you are tethering or not.

myemailisjustin
Mar 18, 2011, 10:24 AM
I've never once tethered or hotspotted yet my usage for last month was over 9GB....this is just normal iPhone usage for me, they better not automatically change me to the tiered plan. :mad:

cybaster
Mar 18, 2011, 10:31 AM
I don't think it is a bad thing for AT+T to prevent people from tethering to a laptop on an unlimited cell phone plan. Those people are just taking advantage of the system, and wasting bandwidth that the rest of us could use.


As far as I'm concerned it is the same as going to an all you can eat restaurant and sharing your food between two people, while only paying for one. It isn't a serious crime, but it is stealing, and you know that if you get caught you will have to stop. I'm not going to feel bad for these people that are using 5+GB per month.

Wait hold on.... Sharing food is illegal?
Really?

They can detect in a lot of way, for instance since you can't use flash on an iphone or iPad, if they see lots of flash stuff they you are probably tethering, also certain popular sites detect mobile devices and send the mobile version of the site if you are loading the full versions of those sites they could detect tethering, these are only a couple of simple things but there are plenty more, so I don't think this is going to be limited to the latest iOS.

Just my thought on the matter.

Way too much effort in sniffing the HTTP response just to find "flash" content to incriminate you for violating their terms of use (note i didn't say 'illegal')

Little Endian
Mar 18, 2011, 10:32 AM
Meh... I use MyWi occasionally, meaning only once or twice every TWO months.

I love tethering but it is not worth it for me to spend an extra $25+ a MONTH or more for a feature that I rarely use. I will stick to my unlimited plan on a jailbroken phone using mywi for now. I have not received any texts or emails yet about my activity and doubt I will.

Now I would spend an extra $5-10 a month if ATT offered tethering with a 5-10 Gigabyte total data cap on both phone and tethering usage. Spending an extra $25+ to be on a capped 2-4GB plan is BuL*Sh&^ if it means that I have to give up my unlimited plan as well as unrestricted 3G via My3G.

ATT could use better price discrimination policies. There are many people who would like tethering, unrestricted 3G etc, who are more than willing to pay. Many would also give up unlimited data as long as ATT gave quality service at a decent price.

bboucher790
Mar 18, 2011, 10:33 AM
I don't think it is a bad thing for AT+T to prevent people from tethering to a laptop on an unlimited cell phone plan. Those people are just taking advantage of the system, and wasting bandwidth that the rest of us could use.


As far as I'm concerned it is the same as going to an all you can eat restaurant and sharing your food between two people, while only paying for one. It isn't a serious crime, but it is stealing, and you know that if you get caught you will have to stop. I'm not going to feel bad for these people that are using 5+GB per month.

+11

The whole "it's MY data, I can do what I want with it!" argument is countered by your perfect analogy with a buffet. I tip my hat to you on that one. If you're at an all-you-can-eat buffet, it doesn't mean you can share your food with your entire family.

I've always believed that unlimited data, on a smartphone, enables you to connect to the internet as much as you want on the device you're contracted to. It's not like home internet where you can share the connection, nor have I ever imagined it would be.

I think that people just like to get "angry at the man" when they don't get things the way they want. ATT is trying to improve their network, good for them.

KidStallyn
Mar 18, 2011, 10:33 AM
The thing that I don't like about this is that data is data. Whether it's coming from a PC thru my iPhone, or directly from my iPhone.....it's still DATA. I can't stand that they charge an extra $20 for using data that I already pay for. It's double dipping, and therefore I will refuse to use the feature. I would absolutely love to tether. There's been times where I needed it, and even though I'm jailbroken, haven't used it. I seriously think this is an area for a class action.

supmango
Mar 18, 2011, 10:33 AM
By the way the supposition as to how they are detecting this is likely way off base....People who think it is not detectable just don't understand how it works/what it is doing at the device level.

Please elaborate.

JediZenMaster
Mar 18, 2011, 10:34 AM
I'm happy AT&T did this because i'm a firm believer that you should pay for what you consume. I know people may disagree but don't complain to me just deal with AT&T.

Happy Tethering :p

supmango
Mar 18, 2011, 10:34 AM
The thing that I don't like about this is that data is data. Whether it's coming from a PC thru my iPhone, or directly from my iPhone.....it's still DATA. I can't stand that they charge an extra $20 for using data that I already pay for. It's double dipping, and therefore I will refuse to use the feature. I would absolutely love to tether. There's been times where I needed it, and even though I'm jailbroken, haven't used it. I seriously think this is an area for a class action.

They actually give you an extra 2gb of data now with the tethering plan. I suspect you argument is one of the main reasons that was implemented.

JediZenMaster
Mar 18, 2011, 10:36 AM
ATT could use better price discrimination policies. There are many people who would like tethering, unrestricted 3G etc, who are more than willing to pay. Many would also give up unlimited data as long as ATT gave quality service at a decent price.

So have you seen what verizon charges for tethering? This forum is extremely slighted towards AT&T. Yet Verizon charges more for tethering and they seem to get a free pass.

So compared to the other carrier that offers the iPhone the tethering with AT&T is a "decent" price.

Full of Win
Mar 18, 2011, 10:37 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

What we need need to do is to use our rights to their maximum amount. If you are on the so-called unlimited plan, download all that you can until you reach 4.5 GB per month (as shown by myAtt.app). Also, download during the day if possible, to cost them even more for peak usage. Leaving data on the table every month is for suckers.

supmango
Mar 18, 2011, 10:48 AM
+11

The whole "it's MY data, I can do what I want with it!" argument is countered by your perfect analogy with a buffet. I tip my hat to you on that one. If you're at an all-you-can-eat buffet, it doesn't mean you can share your food with your entire family.

I've always believed that unlimited data, on a smartphone, enables you to connect to the internet as much as you want on the device you're contracted to. It's not like home internet where you can share the connection, nor have I ever imagined it would be.

I think that people just like to get "angry at the man" when they don't get things the way they want. ATT is trying to improve their network, good for them.

If AT&T let you keep your "unlimited" data plan AND add tethering, his analogy would work. As it stands right now, AT&T forces you to downgrade to a capped data plan and add tethering to it which essentially doubles your data cap to 2gb.

The analogy is more accurately like a traditional restaurant where you order an entre that is not "all you can eat". But in this case, they don't allow you to share it with another person, even though you could never possibly eat all of it by yourself (use your existing data allotment). However, they are more than happy to let you buy another entre. Oh, and you can't take home your leftovers either (rollover). That does a little better job of highlighting exactly how AT&T is being greedy in this scenario.

Bottom line, what people are doing is sticking with unlimited data and tethering (using some other means), and then downloading gigabits of data which does affect network performance for other users. That is how AT&T sees it. If you are careful about what you do while "illegally" tethering, and how often you do it, I seriously doubt they will figure it out. They really aren't that put together on this, as anyone who has spoken to "customer service" can attest.

supmango
Mar 18, 2011, 10:50 AM
So have you seen what verizon charges for tethering? This forum is extremely slighted towards AT&T. Yet Verizon charges more for tethering and they seem to get a free pass.

So compared to the other carrier that offers the iPhone the tethering with AT&T is a "decent" price.

I was going to get an iPhone when another carrier picked it up. I hoped it would be Sprint, since that is where I am right now. But since it was Verizon, I did not get it. Yes Verizon sucks, but AT&T sucks... differently.

KidStallyn
Mar 18, 2011, 10:50 AM
They actually give you an extra 2gb of data now with the tethering plan. I suspect you argument is one of the main reasons that was implemented.

1) Why would I need an extra 2GB when I'm already Unlimited?

2) Why would I need to pay an extra $20 for 1s and 0s going from my laptop thru my phone. If I'm using the laptop, I'm not using my phone and vice versa. It's still single use.

3) Do you pay "Extra" for home internet because you have a wireless router that allows you to connect multiple PCs to the same connection?? How is tethering on a mobile phone any different??? This sets a precedence that could allow for home internet providers to charge on a per PC connect basis.

Interstella5555
Mar 18, 2011, 10:51 AM
Do napster and limewire even exist anymore?

Napster's legit, and only porn hungry idiots who like downloadig viruses use limewire...

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 10:53 AM
They really aren't that put together on this, as anyone who has spoken to "customer service" can attest.

You realize there's a difference between those that "man" the CSR phones and the people responsible for the IT infrastructure, billing, etc, right?

Just because the person that answers your call doesn't know what is going on behind the scenes doesn't mean ATT isn't FULLY aware of who is and who is not tethering or what websites you are viewing, etc.

Interstella5555
Mar 18, 2011, 10:53 AM
1) Why would I need an extra 2GB when I'm already Unlimited?

2) Why would I need to pay an extra $20 for 1s and 0s going from my laptop thru my phone. If I'm using the laptop, I'm not using my phone and vice versa. It's still single use.

3) Do you pay "Extra" for home internet because you have a wireless router that allows you to connect multiple PCs to the same connection?? How is tethering on a mobile phone any different??? This sets a precedence that could allow for home internet providers to charge on a per PC connect basis.


You used to. Back in the day most ISPs would charge per IP address for high speed Internet.

bushido
Mar 18, 2011, 10:54 AM
i wonder how many people actually read the contract ^^ i know i don't lol

blevins321
Mar 18, 2011, 10:55 AM
Here's a screenshot of a section that says they can add necessary services to your contract. From my online customer service summary (the thing you actually 'signed').

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 10:56 AM
1) Why would I need an extra 2GB when I'm already Unlimited?

2) Why would I need to pay an extra $20 for 1s and 0s going from my laptop thru my phone. If I'm using the laptop, I'm not using my phone and vice versa. It's still single use.

3) Do you pay "Extra" for home internet because you have a wireless router that allows you to connect multiple PCs to the same connection?? How is tethering on a mobile phone any different??? This sets a precedence that could allow for home internet providers to charge on a per PC connect basis.

Actually - for several years - and still in some areas - you DO pay for the ability to network your home via wifi - and there is a way for the cable company to prohibit it. Not that they do/will. - but clearly they can since some areas have this as a "premium"


Next - there are things you cannot do on a phone that you can do on a computer in regards to using up bandwidth. You can't download torrents on your phone (for example). You can on a computer.

There's really little debate here. ATT is now, obviously, recognizing what they have known all along - that people are abusing their data plans. So they are taking action. It's within their right. Get over it.

Mad Mac Maniac
Mar 18, 2011, 11:04 AM
I've never once tethered or hotspotted yet my usage for last month was over 9GB....this is just normal iPhone usage for me, they better not automatically change me to the tiered plan. :mad:

Well did u get the text/email?

Wait hold on.... Sharing food is illegal?
Really?


I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not... but he didn't say it was illegal necessarily, but it is stealing and wrong, and the restaurant certainly would stop you if they caught you. Did you read the context? Like if you went with a group of friends to a buffet, but only one person paid then that person kept going back through the line getting food for everyone else.

But back to the original topic, I really hope that at&t won't be able to spot a 4.3 tether. I've kept my unlimited all year, and never once tethered. In fact usually I'm under 1gb (but one month I did netflix like crazy and I was over 4gb). But I have been hanging on to this because one day I might need it. And now that day has come, with my wifi iPad 2. That would really suck that now that I finally want to tether, I won't be able to. Now I'll just have been paying at&t tons of cash for no reason...

CAWjr
Mar 18, 2011, 11:05 AM
I can't blame AT&T one bit for trying to protect their network. And as some have already said, those who are trying to game the system are hurting those of us who are being honest by bloating the network unnecessarily.

jchung
Mar 18, 2011, 11:07 AM
Hopefully this will lighten the strain on the network.

The network load claims from AT&T are a bit of a red herring. Don't trust their numbers as they can't get the accounting right on their end anyway. See this long running thread on Apple's forum - http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2450738

For those of you on the tiered plan... watch the data usage closely on AT&T's account management site. Make sure it matches what you know of your usage. For many people, AT&T's accounting of data usage does not match their own use of the device.

AT&T MUST fix their accounting before they have a moral leg to stand on to pull a stunt like this.

For those of you complaining about the theft of service, how about the theft of money from the customer by AT&T?

KidStallyn
Mar 18, 2011, 11:09 AM
Actually - for several years - and still in some areas - you DO pay for the ability to network your home via wifi - and there is a way for the cable company to prohibit it. Not that they do/will. - but clearly they can since some areas have this as a "premium"


Next - there are things you cannot do on a phone that you can do on a computer in regards to using up bandwidth. You can't download torrents on your phone (for example). You can on a computer.

There's really little debate here. ATT is now, obviously, recognizing what they have known all along - that people are abusing their data plans. So they are taking action. It's within their right. Get over it.

Seriously....The fact that someone want to Bit Torrent over a mobile phones data connection just makes me SMH. It's so much slower then your home internet connection. Maybe they don't have home internet.... OK, give them that. But really, at the end of the day, it's 1s and 0s. Whether it comes from your phone or laptop, you should not get double charged. I will never tether as long as that extra charge is there. ATT or any other carrier will not get another 20/month from me. I think it's crooked. That's my thoughts. Again, I DO NOT tether because of that. I would if it was free, since I'm already paying for DATA whether I use it or not.

AceCoolie
Mar 18, 2011, 11:09 AM
I want to jail break my iphone 4 and install mifi. The reason is to create a mobile router that my iPad and camera can connect to so that images shot my camera will appear on my iPad. This will not involve any data going to the internet. Is this a violation of my ATT agreement? Will then even be able to tell I'm doing it?

Travisimo
Mar 18, 2011, 11:10 AM
Meh... I use MyWi occasionally, meaning only once or twice every TWO months.

Now I would spend an extra $5-10 a month if ATT offered tethering with a 5-10 Gigabyte total data cap on both phone and tethering usage. Spending an extra $25+ to be on a capped 2-4GB plan is BuL*Sh&^ if it means that I have to give up my unlimited plan as well as unrestricted 3G via My3G.


This. I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for tethering, but the $20/mo extra or nothing is really unacceptable. For those of us who only tethering sporadically, it's really a waste of money paying $20/mo. If the carriers really want an extra revenue stream from tethering, they should have different options available.

I would easily pay $5-10 more a month for 1GB of tethering data, and for those who want 2+ gigs for tethering, then $20/mo is fine. They really need a lower option.

Grimmeh
Mar 18, 2011, 11:11 AM
AT&T will never have my business anymore. I used AT&T’s service for my older iPhone 3G I had bought off eBay. After a year, they decided to take it upon themselves to have me buy their data plan. I have, and never have had, a need for a data plan. I rarely find myself without Wi-Fi or I do without for those rare occasions (as if their service never has it’s outages). I told them I don’t need it, or ever use it.

They feel it’s fair to require me to pay for service I don’t need. My phone’s hardware is no different than the dinky little flip phone I’m forced to use until the contract expires (it was the only way for them to keep from charging me for data). Just because of the name of my phone they are telling me I need to buy more from them. That is terrifying if it’s legal.

Now, they are telling people that because their service is split amongst devices you need to pay more, too? Hah! What if you had to pay extra to have more than one phone on your land line? Or you had to pay extra for having more than one computer on your home Internet? Or more if you use a wireless router?

Wireless service companies in the U.S. (can’t speak for elsewhere) have people by the balls. I don’t like it.

P.S. Isn‘t it illegal if they sniff your data? Against privacy laws?

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 11:11 AM
AT&T MUST fix their accounting before they have a moral leg to stand on to pull a stunt like this.

For those of you complaining about the theft of service, how about the theft of money from the customer by AT&T?

Two separate issues.

ATT can prove if you're tethering or not. This has nothing to do with how much data you are or are not using.

Even if you use 1KB via tether and you aren't on their plan - they have a leg to stand on.

cactusjackatu
Mar 18, 2011, 11:13 AM
To everyone that is running jailbroken and tethering (against your AT&T TOS) via MyWi. Did you purchase the app or are you pirating that as well?

SAIRUS
Mar 18, 2011, 11:15 AM
I'm a little split on this. My usage is under 5 gigs usually 99% of the time with legit Netflix streaming, pandora, and GPS usage.

Have I tethered before? I won't lie and say I haven't. I have a developer account and created an app to try it out.

That said, AT&T should upgrade their networks too. I pay for a service, and I believe they should serve me, not the other way around. If I obey the rules, don't clamp down to avoid upgrades.

Also anyone who says "change providers." I simply say, work doesn't allow me. Let alone, AT&T has the best coverage where I live. Just sucks that while having the fastest 3G is handicapped if you can't use it for a while. I also travel, so GSM is the best option for me.

I wish in America all frequencies between cell phone companies are standardized to the other foreign countries so all cell phone carriers would have to actually compete for your business.

Jcoz
Mar 18, 2011, 11:15 AM
Option 3; STOP trying to cheat the system, and START using your iDevice the way the manufacturer designed it and the way your carrier supports it. (Is it unfair? YES! Are all of us iPhone users getting hosed, even though there's now two carriers? YES)

And while you're at it, knock off the piracy with the napster/limewire/torrent crap.

(Yeah, I said it! SOMEBODY had to!)

Well I dont want to "cheat" ATT out of anything.

I want to pay for 2gb and use 2gb.

Why in the f*&# should I have to pay $20 dollars MORE for 2gb of data I DONT WANT?

People on tiered data plans should not have to pay for tethering, period. Its ridiculous.

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 11:15 AM
This. I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for tethering, but the $20/mo extra or nothing is really unacceptable. For those of us who only tethering sporadically, it's really a waste of money paying $20/mo. If the carriers really want an extra revenue stream from tethering, they should have different options available.

I would easily pay $5-10 more a month for 1GB of tethering data, and for those who want 2+ gigs for tethering, then $20/mo is fine. They really need a lower option.

Damned if they do and damned if they don't, aye?

When ATT provides options (whether you like them or not) - you have a choice. You can either choose to take advantage of the options, not use them, buck the system and deal with the consequence, or terminate your agreement and move to another company.

When they didn't provide options- people were up in arms over not having any choices..

Everyone can be an armchair critic, lawyer, etc... I would imagine that few if ANYone here is qualified to determine what ATT (or other carriers) can or cannot/should or should not do when it comes to their business model. You speak (naturally so) for yourself and some of your fellow customers.

Cutwolf
Mar 18, 2011, 11:17 AM
Will never happen. The contract you signed with AT&T specifically says the required data plan cannot be tethered without an additional fee. You agreed not to do it, they have every right to punish those that break the contract.

I have seen this repeated several times throughout the thread. Can someone actually post the relevant contractual section? Thanks.

Fwiw, I think AT&T is bluffing people who are suddenly using significantly more data.

jchung
Mar 18, 2011, 11:17 AM
I've never once tethered or hotspotted yet my usage for last month was over 9GB....this is just normal iPhone usage for me, they better not automatically change me to the tiered plan. :mad:

Check out this thread on Apple's forums - http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2450738

Its a long running problem for a lot of people. AT&T's accounting of data usage has been messed up for quite some time. I don't see how AT&T can justify any claim against someone when they can't correctly account for data usage.

WalkingDED
Mar 18, 2011, 11:21 AM
I actually paid for MyWi and I only use it to tether my iPad. I use it instead of (not in addition to) my iPhone and only when wifi is not available.

justflie
Mar 18, 2011, 11:21 AM
Ok, so my comment about what don't people understand about unlimited was super snarky. Sorry.

What I meant was, If I can use 6GB (for example, I don't use this much) on my iPhone, what's the difference between that and 3GB iPhone and 3GB iPad (tethered)? If I am "entitled" to those 6GB or 4 or whatever on an unlimited plan, why does it matter how that bandwidth is distributed among my devices?

jchung
Mar 18, 2011, 11:22 AM
I can't blame AT&T one bit for trying to protect their network. And as some have already said, those who are trying to game the system are hurting those of us who are being honest by bloating the network unnecessarily.

I can blame AT&T for this because they don't account for data usage properly.

See this thread on Apple's forums - http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2450738

If AT&T could account for data usage properly and show their customers what was using the data, then I would say ALMOST say its ok for AT&T to do this (other than the fact they just automatically sign you up instead of having you opt in).

Doc750
Mar 18, 2011, 11:22 AM
you people who think being charged for tethering is justified, exemplify what is wrong with this country. You would bend over and take anything up the rear end, just b/c it was written in a contract.

contracts are crap .. they mean nothing. Many of them don't hold up in a court, despite what they say. They are intentionally written in a manner to screw the consumer. They do this for as long as they can, until a court or a law tells them otherwise.

you deserve all the ******** these corporations are feeding you.

losers ....

I'm going to plug in my phone, and let netflix run for the next 4 hours, as a nice big FU to AT&T, and all you uncle tom's.

Howdr
Mar 18, 2011, 11:23 AM
People who complain that your service provider is going to make you follow the ru:eek:les unnerve me with their uncanny ability to disregard all that stands to reason with the sustainability of your "toys." They are like little sissies on the playground crying after a Barbie Doll has been taken from them. Those people should man up and start paying for the footprint they leave on the network.
WOW in plain English......... If you use a lot you should pay for it.

OK I agree

but AT&T are the ones who advertise Unlimited Data

Should they not "Man UP"? and stop this hiding behind definitions of nonsense in a contract.

Essentially the point many and I make is

we pay for Data that is contracted as unlimited,
At&t then has a contract that says its unlimited Data with us and then says they can decide when its abused.

OK using 5gb or less is not considered abuse by them, OK

But tethering 100mb of that 5gb is abuse even though it does not go over the usage and it makes no network difference to At&t

the problem is the contract itself is contradictory in how it is written and the enforcement of this issue is in huge suspect, At&t truly may not have one kb of proof that you tethered.

I see many problems with this.

Lawsuits? Class action maybe not individuals.

and it would have to be those paying for tethering and or charged a fine for doing so or forced into a tethering contract.

Not I, I have no emails nothing, = No harm.

TheGeekNextDoor
Mar 18, 2011, 11:24 AM
Why do they have to charge for tethering? It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If I tether a lot, I will use more than 2 gigs in a month. Charge me extra at that point. At least they now give you 2 Gig extra for your tethering money. I would just prefer to not pay for that extra 2 gig until I need it. I only need to tether once a month at best, so I don't want to pay for a bunch of tethering. I also don't want to leave my unlimited plan. Sadly, I have never gone over 2 GB, but I like knowing that I don't have to worry about it.

Gizmotoy
Mar 18, 2011, 11:24 AM
Actually - for several years - and still in some areas - you DO pay for the ability to network your home via wifi - and there is a way for the cable company to prohibit it. Not that they do/will. - but clearly they can since some areas have this as a "premium"

I'm not aware of any non-wireless ISP in the US that charges on a per-computer basis. There are many that offer supported wireless routers to their customers for an additional fee, but there's nothing stopping a customer with enough knowledge from just buying their own.


This whole situation very closely resembles the early days of broadband internet. The ISPs wanted an additional fee (I recall mine was $10/month) for each additional computer on the network. This was enforced by IPs or MAC addresses. Users balked.

Then along came the consumer-level router, which substituted its own IP and MAC address into all packets to/from the local network, making detection difficult.

Since you can determine the manufacturer of the device from its MAC address, the ISPs then started charging extra for any MAC address that indicated it was from a company that manufactures routers (think Linksys, Dlink, etc.). Users balked.

Router companies then added the ability to clone the MAC address of one of the local computers onto the router, effectively making it appear as if all traffic was coming from that one machine. ISPs eventually gave up, and now routers are commonplace.

We're going to see the same progression here eventually, but since all the carriers in the US act as a single unified collective, it will probably take lawsuits to eventually make it happen. When it comes to cellular carriers, there's no such thing as "voting with your dollars" in the US as there is in other parts of the world.

jchung
Mar 18, 2011, 11:25 AM
Two separate issues.

ATT can prove if you're tethering or not. This has nothing to do with how much data you are or are not using.

Even if you use 1KB via tether and you aren't on their plan - they have a leg to stand on.

Hardly, if people are complaining about theft from AT&T, by the customer, then the very same people should be complaining about theft from the customer by AT&T. That is what this incorrect data usage accounting amounts too. AT&T charging people for data usage that they did not use and that AT&T can not prove they used (based on the experience of customers calling AT&T and their usage of the AT&T management website).

The validity of an accusation, by a thief, that someone else is a thief is questionable.

Cutwolf
Mar 18, 2011, 11:30 AM
Found it:

"Furthermore, plans (unless specifically designated for tethering usage) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device (through use of, including without limitation, connection kits, other phone/smartphone to computer accessories, BLUETOOTH® or any other wireless technology) to Personal Computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for any purpose. Accordingly, AT&T reserves the right to (i) deny, disconnect, modify and/or terminate Service, without notice, to anyone it believes is using the Service in any manner prohibited or whose usage adversely impacts its wireless network or service levels or hinders access to its wireless network, including without limitation, after a significant period of inactivity or after sessions of excessive usage and (ii) otherwise protect its wireless network from harm, compromised capacity or degradation in performance, which may impact legitimate data flows."

Interesting. All AT&T has to do is believe you're tethering and they can modify your plan? I'm going to keep tethering, and if they try to change my plan, get out of my contract with no ETF. Id also be very curious to see how the "believe" provision would hold up in court if they had no other proof than an increase in data usage. I'm guessing not very well.

aneftp
Mar 18, 2011, 11:30 AM
I think ATT needs to find a middle ground with wireless data usage.

Non-USA users, please chime in.

I think Candaian users get "free tethering included" with their 6GB data plan?

So ATT needs to say something like here's 5GB of data. Charge us $30 (which I think is a very fair price). And we can tether or do whatever we want with that data as long as phone plus tethering is less than 5GB a month.

Of course, ATT is greedy and charging a ridiculous $45 for only 4GB total of data (it used to be worst and only included 2GB data).

Heavyhitter504
Mar 18, 2011, 11:31 AM
I actually paid for MyWi and I only use it to tether my iPad. I use it instead of (not in addition to) my iPhone and only when wifi is not available.

This is what I do, I'm on the "unlimited" plan and I haven't received any text or email regarding the warning about tethering, i hope it's because I dont surpass the 5 gb cap

BC2009
Mar 18, 2011, 11:34 AM
Someone is failing... hard

<soapbox -- move on if you are not interested>
It's you. He's right. I could care less about the whiners who say "I need 10GB per month to tether all my devices to my iPhone." I don't like subsidizing that. If you use that much data on your iPhone directly without tethering then more power to you -- that was AT&T's mistake for offering an unlimited plan.

But the "unlimited plan" they offered did not say "unlimited devices on one plan". It was very specifically restricted to the iPhone. To those who have cheated system, I applaud your brilliance for working around the rules. But when the rule maker starts cracking down on your circumvention crying that it is "unfair" is a bit comical.

Everybody signs a contact with their carriers when they get service. They sure as heck know what they are signing up for -- some of amount of money every month for some sort of access to their network with some set of limitations.

Sure, if you buy an iPhone it is yours. You can do what you want with it. However, your use of the carrier's network is subject to a contract with specific terms. If you don't like the terms then you don't need to agree to them. But if you choose to agree to them and try to cheat the carrier through unfair practices then don't expect others to be happy about subsidizing your practice through increased rates or degraded service.

The carrier is going to make their money one way or the other. They are a corporation driven by profits. Retail stores raise prices to compensate for shoplifting just like carriers raise rates to compensate for network expansion and lost customers due to network overload from those who circumvent the agreement they signed up for.

Any measure by the carrier to crack down on those who cheat the system is a welcome effort to those who choose not to cheat the system. They could be jerks and just decide that its not worth the effort to go after those folks and make everybody pay for it.

Do I believe that AT&T will drop their rates once they crack down on the bandwidth cheaters? Heck no. Do I believe that the network performance will get better for the rest of us without added monthly fees, probably. Either way, what's fair is fair. Nobody is born entitled to an iPhone and mobile data. But the sense of entitlement in this country has gotten so out of hand.
</soapbox>

Howdr
Mar 18, 2011, 11:39 AM
Why do they have to charge for tethering? It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If I tether a lot, I will use more than 2 gigs in a month. Charge me extra at that point. At least they now give you 2 Gig extra for your tethering money. I would just prefer to not pay for that extra 2 gig until I need it. I only need to tether once a month at best, so I don't want to pay for a bunch of tethering. I also don't want to leave my unlimited plan. Sadly, I have never gone over 2 GB, but I like knowing that I don't have to worry about it.
Because it get's you off the unlimited GF plan then.

If you go Data pro you must decline the unlimited GF ( the way i understand it)

You see there is a reason for this two fold

At&t hates unlimited Iphone users, they do

if you have the 2gb plan and you go over you get 1gb more = 25 plus $10 = 35 and then go over to 3.1gb = 25 + 10 +10 = $45
5gb would be $55. so they loose $25 a month from every unlimited who tethers up to 5gb

20gb? would cost $205 a month right?

The person who used 90gb a month? $25 plus $880 or $1005 in usage ( profit loss) to At&t

You all yell contract contract, At&t yells profits profits profits.

even if you pay for tethering and use 3.9gb a month
its 45 vs 30 a month, do 15 x 50,000 theoretically thats a loss of 750,000 a month profit for At&t or 9,000,000 USD a year, I think capturing this would make my boss happy wouldn't it?

Jcoz
Mar 18, 2011, 11:40 AM
<soapbox -- move on if you are not interested>
It's you. He's right. I could care less about the whiners who say "I need 10GB per month to tether all my devices to my iPhone." I don't like subsidizing that. If you use that much data on your iPhone directly without tethering then more power to you -- that was AT&T's mistake for offering an unlimited plan.

But the "unlimited plan" they offered did not say "unlimited devices on one plan". It was very specifically restricted to the iPhone. To those who have cheated system, I applaud your brilliance for working around the rules. But when the rule maker starts cracking down on your circumvention crying that it is "unfair" is a bit comical.

Everybody signs a contact with their carriers when they get service. They sure as heck know what they are signing up for -- some of amount of money every month for some sort of access to their network with some set of limitations.

Sure, if you buy an iPhone it is yours. You can do what you want with it. However, your use of the carrier's network is subject to a contract with specific terms. If you don't like the terms then you don't need to agree to them. But if you choose to agree to them and try to cheat the carrier through unfair practices then don't expect others to be happy about subsidizing your practice through increased rates or degraded service.

The carrier is going to make their money one way or the other. They are a corporation driven by profits. Retail stores raise prices to compensate for shoplifting just like carriers raise rates to compensate for network expansion and lost customers due to network overload from those who circumvent the agreement they signed up for.

Any measure by the carrier to crack down on those who cheat the system is a welcome effort to those who choose not to cheat the system. They could be jerks and just decide that its not worth the effort to go after those folks and make everybody pay for it.

Do I believe that AT&T will drop their rates once they crack down on the bandwidth cheaters? Heck no. Do I believe that the network performance will get better for the rest of us without added monthly fees, probably. Either way, what's fair is fair. Nobody is born entitled to an iPhone and mobile data. But the sense of entitlement in this country has gotten so out of hand.
</soapbox>

What about tiered plan users being forced into 4gb plans that cost 50% more than 5gb iphone plans (aka unlimited)?

Why should ANYONE on a well defined data plan (non-unlimited) have to pay additional cost to use that data that was paid for?

QCassidy352
Mar 18, 2011, 11:41 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)

Option 3; STOP trying to cheat the system, and START using your iDevice the way the manufacturer designed it and the way your carrier supports it. (Is it unfair? YES! Are all of us iPhone users getting hosed, even though there's now two carriers? YES)

And while you're at it, knock off the piracy with the napster/limewire/torrent crap.

(Yeah, I said it! SOMEBODY had to!)

Poor thing... he doesn't realize napster and limewire are history. Also, once the data hits my device, it's mine to do with as I please. Thank you very much.

>laughing_girls.jpg.tiff.

No, that's just not true. You signed a contract saying you would only use the data on the phone. You paid for the data with the understanding that it comes with certain contractual restrictions. If you think those restrictions are unfair or arbitrary, you should have signed the contract. In no way shape or form does the contract you signed entitle you to do whatever you want with the data.

It's not a perfect analogy, but compare buying OS 10.6 and installing it on multiple machines with one license. You bought the disc, but that doesn't mean you can do whatever you want with it. The purchase comes with terms regulating the allowed uses.

Cutwolf
Mar 18, 2011, 11:46 AM
Does anyone know when the tethering clause was added to AT&T contract? It couldn't have always been there since the concept hasnt always been around.

nebo1ss
Mar 18, 2011, 11:47 AM
Hey mates! I live in the UK and according to what I've read, what american mobile companies are charging you is a rip-off! I pay £35 per month (tax included, about $55 USD) and I get: 2000 any network-any time minutes, 5000 same network minutes, 5000 any network messages, UNLIMITED internet, that's right, no capping, no "fair usage policies", UNLIMITED! AAAAND I can tether with up to 5 devices, (macbook and iPad in my case and even my mates iPod touch from time to time when we are out). No extra fees, no hidden tricks. And my iPhone is unlocked, so I can sell it when my contract finishes and any person can use in any country or any network. COMPLAIN PEOPLE!:apple:

Every single UK carrier has a fair use policy. Check again. I agree with you on some points and prefer the UK plans but mainly because they charge different rates for those who own their phone than subsidized phones. I spend six months of the year in the UK and have a 12 month contract plan with o2 where for Sterling 15 or about $22 per month i get 600 minutes, unlimited text and 1g data plus unlimited wifi. I have an unlocked iphone that I use on Tmobile while in the US. I will be changing to "Three" as soon as contract up because they have even more attractive plans.

KidStallyn
Mar 18, 2011, 11:47 AM
ATT already requires me to have data with an iPhone. There is NO option to say no. If they find that you have an iPhone without a data plan, they will make you add it. Regardless of how you obtained your phone.

Now, I "chose" the option to use "unlimited" data out of the 3 options. Data, therefore is defined as 1s and 0s at their basic level. Does it really matter if my phone is getting those 1s and 0s or if my phone is just a pass thru for those 1s and 0s. Does ATT incur any extra fees for those PCs 1s and 0s that they would not otherwise incur on the iPhones 1s and 0s. No. They do not. This is a great big scam to get an extra $20/month from those people who chose to get the plan. Is the tethering feature somethign that ATT designed on the phone?? I'm saying hardware and software. Did ATT design any software or Hardware on the phone that would allow or prohibit tethering. NO. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING required from ATT to enable tethering. Mi-Wi proves this.

I would understand if ATT developed an App like Mi-Wi that enabled tethering on your iPhone. Charge whatever they want. But the fact is, they did not do that. My phone is allowed to use unlimited number of 1s and 0s.

QCassidy352
Mar 18, 2011, 11:49 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)

I should add that I don't agree with those calling unofficial tethering "stealing." it's not taking anything from AT&T and it's not illegal in the sense of breaking a criminal law (and AT&T isn't saying otherwise). It's a violation of your contract, and AT&T is therefore justified in taking action. I agree that charging more for tethering on a limited data plan doesn't make much sense, but contracts don't have to make perfect sense.

Personally, I don't use unauthorized tethering because I believe in honoring my contracts. But it's not "stealing."

jmcrutch
Mar 18, 2011, 11:49 AM
AT&T can do whatever they want to.

The tethering charge is out there right now because of the unlimited data option. It's there to screw with the status quo.

Verizon is getting rid of their unlimited, as AT&T already did.


A fair system would be $5/GB, tethering permitted. Pay for what you eat.

But then, a competitor would come out with an unlimited option to try to attract customers; and eventually be in the same boat.


Basically it comes down to "pay for what you eat" or "fixed rate with limitations." There really isn't another viable option that I see.

DJsteveSD
Mar 18, 2011, 11:51 AM
I'm going to plug in my phone, and let netflix run for the next 4 hours, as a nice big FU to AT&T, and all you uncle tom's.

I like that idea, I'm at work and I have a movie running on netflix on my iphone just to use up data, curious to see how much it actually uses as I rarely use 1gb on my unlimited plan...

wordoflife
Mar 18, 2011, 11:53 AM
I hate how these carriers work in the US.

If you give us a data allowance, that is what you give us - regardless of how we use it.
If you were giving us unlimited data, then I could understand why you would be charging for tethering. But that would go bad anyways.

I know its in the contract, but thats cheap.

Jcoz
Mar 18, 2011, 11:55 AM
I hate how these carriers work in the US.

If you give us a data allowance, that is what you give us - regardless of how we use it.

If you were giving us unlimited data, then I could understand why you would be charging for tethering. But that would go bad anyways.

I agree.

I completely understand the idea that unlimited data should have to pay for tethering, although I think there should just be a cap prior to additional charges like verizon does.

What I dont understand is how they think charging tiered data customers for tethering is fair.

manman
Mar 18, 2011, 11:57 AM
As far as I'm concerned it is the same as going to an all you can eat restaurant and sharing your food between two people, while only paying for one. It isn't a serious crime, but it is stealing, and you know that if you get caught you will have to stop. I'm not going to feel bad for these people that are using 5+GB per month.

I don't think it's really like this in practice, because 99% of the time people are probably using one device or the other, they aren't surfing around and watching videos etc on the iPad and iPhone at the same time for example. They COULD do it, so I guess the analogy works, I just don't think there's a lot to worry about there.

I agree that if this is explicitly laid out in the contract we signed, we can't really get mad. I do think it's retarded though- with normal Internet service, you pay a single fee and connect any device you want... computers, phones, game consoles... buying service from a phone carrier should ve the same. Because in most cases it really DOES amount to paying for the same data twice. You'd have to have multiple people using each device simultaneously to really get your moneys worth : /

Cutwolf
Mar 18, 2011, 11:57 AM
I agree.

I completely understand the idea that unlimited data should have to pay for tethering, although I think there should just be a cap prior to additional charges like verizon does.

What I dont understand is how they think charging tiered data customers for tethering is fair.

Who cares about fair?

I'm going to tether til they change my plan, and when they do, cancel with no ETF, and use the money I would have spent paying the ETF on clear spot 4g+.

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 11:59 AM
WOW in plain English......... If you use a lot you should pay for it.

OK I agree

but AT&T are the ones who advertise Unlimited Data

Should they not "Man UP"? and stop this hiding behind definitions of nonsense in a contract.



You could also man up and admit that at the heart of your argument - you don't like that you signed a contract that up until now - was just fine and dandy. Now that ATT wants to actually hold you and others responsible for an element of that contract that you think you are entitled to - you want to cry "illegal."

Good luck. ATT would be better off losing you as a customer rather than dealing with the, no doubt, obnoxious posts and calls into CSRs you will no doubt make.

coder12
Mar 18, 2011, 11:59 AM
I smell a lawsuit against AT&T coming along!

supmango
Mar 18, 2011, 12:02 PM
You realize there's a difference between those that "man" the CSR phones and the people responsible for the IT infrastructure, billing, etc, right?

Of course there is a difference. But only in the individuals I am dealing with. My personal experience with AT&T (~2 years ago) is that they have difficulty communicating very basic information internally. This is things like upgrade eligibility, data plan pricing (between corporate and personal); you know, the stuff you can get pretty easily on the website. Now why would this be for a "telecom" company? This piece of evidence points to a pattern of incompetence that likely goes pretty deep. And, if in fact people are getting these threats from AT&T, and they call to discuss it with them, good luck getting any good information from the rep on the other end of the phone as to how they know this is happening.

As other's have pointed out, it seems like there are a few legal loopholes in what AT&T is trying to do. If they send you a message and you don't call, it's on you and they can do that (in the contract). If they change your terms of service, they have to notify you within 30 days, and you can cancel the rest of your contract. If, however, you call and they can't provide sufficient evidence of what they are accusing you of doing, and they are changing your terms no matter what, you have the right to terminate service. My guess is that they won't want you to do that, unless they have evidence that you are overloading their network. In which case, I think they can change your terms and not let you out of the contract (if someone wants to look that up, great, I don't really care enough to do it).

Someone who has received one of these messages needs to call and see what they say, and then post back. I am really curious about what kind of evidence they give you. It might be something as simple as targeting high-volume users and accusing them of tethering (as others have already mentioned).

Just because the person that answers your call doesn't know what is going on behind the scenes doesn't mean ATT isn't FULLY aware of who is and who is not tethering or what websites you are viewing, etc.

Perhaps, but it took them long enough to figure it out, or at least to take any action on it.

It's one thing to have that information, its another thing to access it and get a report on usage patterns that reliably determines that it us tethering usage. Internet usage can vary widely depending on the user. So it almost requires a human eye to look at it and make that determination. Even then, it can be a hard call.

If people aren't being careful about what they are doing online while tethered (for example, they are doing things their iPhones cannot do natively), it's pretty simple for AT&T to see that kind of activity. But someone who is smart about it can probably get by indefinitely.

I think AT&T is starting to panicking about the people who are leaving to go to Verizon. They need to make sure they are milking every dime they can get out of the iPhone users they still have.

Cutwolf
Mar 18, 2011, 12:03 PM
http://modmyi.com/forums/iphone-news/755094-t-cracking-down-mywi-tethering.html

UPDATE: Based on user comments that some users are getting the message that don't tether at all, it looks like AT&T is targeting users who have high data usage. As it turns out, MyWi shows up as 0 tether bytes.

They're bluffing and hoping to get those high data users off of their unlimited data plans by having them forget to call in and opt out. So just stay on your toes.

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 12:04 PM
I agree.

I completely understand the idea that unlimited data should have to pay for tethering, although I think there should just be a cap prior to additional charges like verizon does.

What I dont understand is how they think charging tiered data customers for tethering is fair.

Agreed - and something I said several pages back...

Cutwolf
Mar 18, 2011, 12:10 PM
Some helpful quotes from the modmyi thread:

-------
I helped my boss through this one... I had him call AT&T and explain that he received a message about something called "tethering" and to act dumb and explain that he is a heavy pandora and Netflix user and doesn't understand why he's going to be billed more for it. Bottom line they couldn't prove it so they apologized and removed issue from his account with no changes.

Good luck to everyone. (my boss was on 4.2.1 and he is using about 25gb per month)

AT&T is hoping people will either ignore the message or call to apologize (Don't act guilty and you'll be fine)

--------


I told AT&T that I stream Sirius all day. They said my plan can stay the same since i don't "tether" lol

-------

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 12:10 PM
Perhaps, but it took them long enough to figure it out, or at least to take any action on it.

It's one thing to have that information, its another thing to access it and get a report on usage patterns that reliably determines that it us tethering usage. Internet usage can vary widely depending on the user. So it almost requires a human eye to look at it and make that determination. Even then, it can be a hard call.


There are a dozen and one ways they can use rules/logic engines - they don't need a human eye.

And the timing of this new policy isn't by accident nor has it taken ATT "long enough". It's strategic.

With 4.3 - mobile hotspots are now enabled on their network and there is a clear billing system set up within their infrastructure. Remember - prior to 4.3 - ANY tethering via the iPhone was against TOS.

Now that they have a specific plan they can switch you to and/or illustrate that you have LEGAL ways of tethering - they are in a much better position to win any of these so called "arguments."

It's no accident. They clearly have been poised to take action and waited until everything fell into place with the enabling of hotspots.

The DRis
Mar 18, 2011, 12:15 PM
I'm going to plug in my phone, and let netflix run for the next 4 hours, as a nice big FU to AT&T, and all you uncle tom's.

Exactly what I was thinking. Screw the next 4 hours, for the next month I'm going to non-stop stream audio and video. I even disabled WiFi so I don't use my works connection I use only AT&T's.

Blow me ATT.

Netflix non-stop for the next month

The DRis
Mar 18, 2011, 12:16 PM
http://modmyi.com/forums/iphone-news/755094-t-cracking-down-mywi-tethering.html



They're bluffing and hoping to get those high data users off of their unlimited data plans by having them forget to call in and opt out. So just stay on your toes.

Dirty Mother*Bleeping* bandits.

Eff em all. Use the data.

jchung
Mar 18, 2011, 12:16 PM
Check out this post on modmyi.com - http://modmyi.com/forums/iphone-news/755094-t-cracking-down-mywi-tethering.html#post5900780

AT&T is just trying to bully people into the tethering plan.

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 12:20 PM
Exactly what I was thinking. Screw the next 4 hours, for the next month I'm going to non-stop stream audio and video. I even disabled WiFi so I don't use my works connection I use only AT&T's.

Blow me ATT.

Netflix non-stop for the next month

And this accomplishes what - exactly?

Howdr
Mar 18, 2011, 12:22 PM
You could also man up and admit that at the heart of your argument - you don't like that you signed a contract that up until now - was just fine and dandy. Now that ATT wants to actually hold you and others responsible for an element of that contract that you think you are entitled to - you want to cry "illegal."

Good luck. ATT would be better off losing you as a customer rather than dealing with the, no doubt, obnoxious posts and calls into CSRs you will no doubt make.
LOL yeah Right,

I have dealt with the president of At&t on a serious matter this past year.

I will not get into what Apple does to At&t but it was over my Iphone

anyway, I do not make such calls or demands on At&t and in fact I like at&t over Verizon.

But if you advertise unlimited as At&t does and did, it should be unlimited no matter what (Slimey) lawyer drafts a document meant to swindle people is signed.
a Con game is still a con game, if i sign and pay for unlimited, it should be unlimited not what ever At&t decides.

Its wrong and you cannot convince me of otherwise.

If unlimited is "limited" then using the word "Unlimited" is deceitful and when a contract is deceitful is may not be binding...........yes that is what courts are for.

What interest is it of yours to defend At&t anyway? Hmm I suspect something is up............;)

BC2009
Mar 18, 2011, 12:22 PM
What about tiered plan users being forced into 4gb plans that cost 50% more than 5gb iphone plans (aka unlimited)?

Why should ANYONE on a well defined data plan (non-unlimited) have to pay additional cost to use that data that was paid for?

To those who have limited data and just want the ability to use it any way they like -- I totally feel your pain. I fully agree that it is really dumb of AT&T to cap the data and then charge you extra per device. It is non-sensical to anyone with a basic sense of logic. To me, why not let people use the data up and pay for more if they need it (i.e.: upgrade to 4GB if they need that much data or 6GB or 8GB).

But it is still does not escape the fact that they are the ones who erected the wireless towers and built up the network infrastructure and they can license it as they see fit. And we as consumers have the option to not license it at all. I think the more dumb decisions they make the more likely folks will change carriers or somebody else will come along that offers something better.

I think Cable companies have been sticking it to Americans for years even though they are subsidized with municipal permits to build out their network under public roads. Now better things are coming along and some of these Cable companies are scared out of their minds. First Dish Network and DirectTV offered a better alternative and now the potential for wireless WAN or other internet providers to replace the need for subscription television.

Cable companies are becoming a commodity for pure data. Eventually the wireless providers will as well But for now, if you sign an agreement it should be with the intent of keeping that agreement. Most folks would expect others to keep up their end of any bargain, why shouldn't these wireless carriers expect the same or enforce it otherwise?

Rocketman
Mar 18, 2011, 12:25 PM
This is a simple and cheap way for AT&T to address the most abusive users in a way they give themselves the choice.

Why now? It may have iOS 4.3 as a small factor, but the larger factor is uptake on (fully paid) iPad data plans is so brisk and invites more legitimate use of the network, they need to create network capacity fast, before they install more backhaul or towers. This is that way.

A small percentage of users really are using the bulk of variable bandwidth.

Rocketman

The DRis
Mar 18, 2011, 12:29 PM
And this accomplishes what - exactly?

I want that text so I can call them up and lambast the eff out of them.

I'm not jailbroken, I don't tether. But it pisses me off that they are wanting to limit data.

I just checked, my data use per month for the last six months is anywhere from 4GB-7GB a month. Mostly because I stream a radio station. Pandora is better at managing data sending it in packets, this app uses straight streaming.

I'll be staying off my wifi at home and at work.

TheGeekNextDoor
Mar 18, 2011, 12:30 PM
Because it get's you off the unlimited GF plan then.

If you go Data pro you must decline the unlimited GF ( the way i understand it)

You see there is a reason for this two fold

At&t hates unlimited Iphone users, they do

if you have the 2gb plan and you go over you get 1gb more = 25 plus $10 = 35 and then go over to 3.1gb = 25 + 10 +10 = $45
5gb would be $55. so they loose $25 a month from every unlimited who tethers up to 5gb

20gb? would cost $205 a month right?

The person who used 90gb a month? $25 plus $880 or $1005 in usage ( profit loss) to At&t

You all yell contract contract, At&t yells profits profits profits.

even if you pay for tethering and use 3.9gb a month
its 45 vs 30 a month, do 15 x 50,000 theoretically thats a loss of 750,000 a month profit for At&t or 9,000,000 USD a year, I think capturing this would make my boss happy wouldn't it?

I guess where I was going with it is for AT&T to charge me $25 for 2GB. I get to use that data how I wish. If I go over, charge me $20 for an additional 2GB. Don't make me pay $20 more per month just for the ability to use a feature of the phone. Charge me for what I use. I would be much more inclined to drop my unlimited.

AT&T doesn't hate all unlimited iPhone users. My wife has never used over 400MB in any one month, yet I fear to give up her unlimited that I'm paying $30 a month for. I very rarely go over 800MB. I have spiked to 1.4GB, but that was only once. I still pay $30. So I think AT&T is loving me paying them $60/month for an actual usage of less than 2GB per month spread across two phones.

I would much prefer a family plan "pool" of data. Give me 6GB for $60 to share amongst all of my phones. I have 4 of them. 2 unlimited, 1 2GB, 1 250MB. I pay $100 a month just for data! It's/I'm crazy/stupid. :)

I share minutes. I share texts. Why not data? Then I could tie in my iPad, my refrigerator, my alarm system, etc. into AT&T and they would own me out of centralized data convenience. I don't want to pay big monthly fees for each IP based device I add onto my account.

chakraj
Mar 18, 2011, 12:30 PM
Dont you all understand, Unlimited is the name of the plan not the discription of the amount of data used.

Much like the Ford LTD, or Limited, they were just named LTD, they were not actually a limited edition vehicle.

ATT REP; Hello sir, would you like to sign up for our unlimited data plan? with that plan you get 5gigs, you can use anyway you want, as long as it is viewing facebook or google only, any other web traffic is not in your unlimited plan. For that you would need our world wide Unlimited web access plan. With that plan you get 5gigs and you also get to look at youtube and Amazon. If you want more there is our unlimited universal time and space plan. With that plan you get everything from the other unlimited plan plus you get access to ebay!. for a limited time..

supmango
Mar 18, 2011, 12:31 PM
There are a dozen and one ways they can use rules/logic engines - they don't need a human eye.

And the timing of this new policy isn't by accident nor has it taken ATT "long enough". It's strategic.

With 4.3 - mobile hotspots are now enabled on their network and there is a clear billing system set up within their infrastructure. Remember - prior to 4.3 - ANY tethering via the iPhone was against TOS.

Now that they have a specific plan they can switch you to and/or illustrate that you have LEGAL ways of tethering - they are in a much better position to win any of these so called "arguments."

It's no accident. They clearly have been poised to take action and waited until everything fell into place with the enabling of hotspots.

I never said anything about it being an accident. I also don't think your argument is "clear" unless you have some kind of internal information that the rest of us don't know about.

If it is really that simple to develop "rules and logic engines" to crack down on tethering, why did it take almost a full year (after introducing tethering) to do it? A logical evaluation of network activity (one that can be done by a computer) works in many cases, but there are always instances where it misses things, or triggers a false alert. AT&T is limited in this regard. I also don't see anything special about the mobile hotspot feature that allows AT&T more access to information that it did not have previously. See the rest of my post.

If people aren't being careful about what they are doing online while tethered (for example, they are doing things their iPhones cannot do natively), it's pretty simple for AT&T to see that kind of activity. But someone who is smart about it can probably get by indefinitely.

I think AT&T is starting to panicking about the people who are leaving to go to Verizon. They need to make sure they are milking every dime they can get out of the iPhone users they still have

Simm0nS777
Mar 18, 2011, 12:31 PM
Peoples stupidity ITT is hilarious.

I RARELY crack the 2GB level on my unlimited data plan. I usually tether about 2 days a week for a few hours. I work at a job with a ton of downtime. I spend that downtime browsing forums. If ATT takes away my tethering ability (no way in hell Im pay an extra $45 to tether) I will then have to spend that downtime watching netflix which is going to use A LOT more bandwidth than browsing forums on my laptop.

So those of you not bright enough to realize that for many they will be using MORE data need to use that head of yours a little more.

Its funny that in your guys minds that its better for someone to use 15GB a month watching netflix/streaming pandora etc. than it is for me to use 2GB tethering.

aristobrat
Mar 18, 2011, 12:33 PM
I'm going to tether til they change my plan, and when they do, cancel with no ETF, and use the money I would have spent paying the ETF on clear spot 4g+.
Really? There's an active lawsuit against Clear for throttling the speed of the high-bandwidth users on some of Clear's unlimited plans. Oh, and their CEO just quit. Switch with confidence!

I smell a lawsuit against AT&T coming along!
Maybe.

T-Mobile and Verizon have both (in previous years) goine after people tethering on plans that don't include tethering. No lawsuits.

Here's what happens: the carrier cracks down, the blogosphere publicizes that the carriers are doing it, forums have threads like this, and after a few weeks, the commotion dies down and people pick the appropriate data plans.

The weird thing was that with unauthorized tethering on T-Mobile and Verizon, how to do it wasn't really mainstream info. Some folks figured it out, and they'd post on forums like howardforum, but it's nothing like how info about MyWi/iPhone is pretty much virtually everywhere nowadays.

matthew23
Mar 18, 2011, 12:36 PM
I wonder if MyWi will patch their program some how to get around all of this. Anyone know if they have said anything?

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 12:37 PM
I want that text so I can call them up and lambast the eff out of them.

I'm not jailbroken, I don't tether. But it pisses me off that they are wanting to limit data.

I just checked, my data use per month for the last six months is anywhere from 4GB-7GB a month. Mostly because I stream a radio station. Pandora is better at managing data sending it in packets, this app uses straight streaming.

I'll be staying off my wifi at home and at work.

Ok - so you didn't even get the text. You might never get the text - but yet you're still going to have a tantrum and "teach ATT a lesson" ??? Ok - good luck with that.

I never said anything about it being an accident. I also don't think your argument is "clear" unless you have some kind of internal information that the rest of us don't know about.

If it is really that simple to develop "rules and logic engines" to crack down on tethering, why did it take almost a full year (after introducing tethering) to do it? A logical evaluation of network activity (one that can be done by a computer) works in many cases, but there are always instances where it misses things, or triggers a false alert. AT&T is limited in this regard. I also don't see anything special about the mobile hotspot feature that allows AT&T more access to information that it did not have previously. See the rest of my post.

If people aren't being careful about what they are doing online while tethered (for example, they are doing things their iPhones cannot do natively), it's pretty simple for AT&T to see that kind of activity. But someone who is smart about it can probably get by indefinitely.

I think AT&T is starting to panicking about the people who are leaving to go to Verizon. They need to make sure they are milking every dime they can get out of the iPhone users they still have

You missed the point of what I said in my post. For one - I explained why they may have waited. Pretty clearly.

I'm guessing a lot of people here are pissing and moaning about something that hasn't even affected them (yet) and might not ever. Which is even sillier. It sounds like very few (if any) on this thread actually GOT the email/txt.

And to reiterate what I said several posts ago (but so few people read full threads...) that I don't agree with ATT charging twice for people on CAPPED plans. If you pay for 2 gigs - you should get 2 gigs - no matter what. It's finite.

But unlimited data is a different matter. And for those that can't understand or see the difference - there's little use in trying to explain it over and over. You don't get it.

aristobrat
Mar 18, 2011, 12:37 PM
Its funny that in your guys minds that its better for someone to use 15GB a month watching netflix/streaming pandora etc. than it is for me to use 2GB tethering.
How the hell do you propose they implement an "Hey, it's cool if you tether with your unlimited, since you're just browsing forums" policy? Because, you know what? Not everyone tethering on unlimited is as cool as you.

Maybe if they make everyone pinky swear on it?

Sodner
Mar 18, 2011, 12:39 PM
LOL yeah Right,

I have dealt with the president of At&t on a serious matter this past year.

I will not get into what Apple does to At&t but it was over my Iphone

anyway, I do not make such calls or demands on At&t and in fact I like at&t over Verizon.

But if you advertise unlimited as At&t does and did, it should be unlimited no matter what (Slimey) lawyer drafts a document meant to swindle people is signed.
a Con game is still a con game, if i sign and pay for unlimited, it should be unlimited not what ever At&t decides.

Its wrong and you cannot convince me of otherwise.

If unlimited is "limited" then using the word "Unlimited" is deceitful and when a contract is deceitful is may not be binding...........yes that is what courts are for.

What interest is it of yours to defend At&t anyway? Hmm I suspect something is up............;)

Bust every last one of them AT&T!! :) In fact start with this person.

fehhkk
Mar 18, 2011, 12:44 PM
Carriers don't seem to understand that if you consume your 2GB data allowance in one day, it's actually better for them, because they will get your for overages :D

Stupid AT&T.

On a separate note, I don't think I mind paying $20 for an extra 2GB of data. I was paying $59.99 for a Verizon USB data stick for a 5GB/mo. plan... So, since I don't tether that much, it seems adequate, *AND* I can switch off the tethering plan as I need it (without getting into a 2 year contract for just a USB data stick).

dave420
Mar 18, 2011, 12:44 PM
To everyone that is running jailbroken and tethering (against your AT&T TOS) via MyWi. Did you purchase the app or are you pirating that as well?

I purchased the app, though I haven't received any warning either. I only using it occasionally to provide connectivity to my iPad, and usually only for small amounts of data.
(I have been known to use large amounts of data (>15 GB) in a month streaming Netflix on my phone though)

Simm0nS777
Mar 18, 2011, 12:46 PM
How the hell do you propose they implement an "Hey, it's cool if you tether with your unlimited, since you're just browsing forums" policy? Because, you know what? Not everyone tethering on unlimited is as cool as you.

Maybe if they make everyone pinky swear on it?

I just dont get why all you are acting like children about it. Who cares? what is your 3G download speed gonna go up by .00001?

I see people who claim they have used like 80 gigs in a month. Do I care and cry that ATT should do something about it so they can "clear" up the network for me? No I dont give a crap. My speeds are great even with all that. ATT introducing tethering is MUCH worse than the select few who jailbreak and tether.

Howdr
Mar 18, 2011, 12:47 PM
Bust every last one of them AT&T!! :) In fact start with this person.
LOL for what using 900mb of data last month.........:D

You people are too much............:)

I know the road At&t is on, they are trying to make money.

I posted the lost revenue

I posted the reason they hate unlimited

you can make excuse after excuse for At&t bottom line is

If I have 5gb lets say, then I should be free to use up to 5gb without worry.

The facts get distorted by deceptive TOS's from At&t and peoples own agendas.

Agendas on both sides
The stupid people who use 10's of GB a month to download movies and torrents
The people who are righteous and like to point fingers and "I told you so"

I haven't tethered in 6 months.

:cool:

aristobrat
Mar 18, 2011, 12:48 PM
But if you advertise unlimited as At&t does and did, it should be unlimited no matter what (Slimey) lawyer drafts a document meant to swindle people is signed.
a Con game is still a con game, if i sign and pay for unlimited, it should be unlimited not what ever At&t decides.
It's an unlimited iPhone data plan.

iPhone data plan.

Not an unlimited iPhone + tethering data plan.

AT&T isn't limiting the amount of iPhone data that your iPhone can consume.

AT&T is enforcing the part of the contract where it says (as clear as day) that you cannot use an iPhone data plan to tether data to other devices.

"Unlimited data" isn't the issue they're enforcing, Howdr. They're enforcing the devices that are allowed to be used on the iPhone unlimited data plan.

Howdr
Mar 18, 2011, 12:56 PM
It's an unlimited iPhone data plan.

iPhone data plan. True

Not an unlimited iPhone + tethering data plan.
they never offered this so its Moot

AT&T isn't limiting the amount of iPhone data on your iPhone data plan.

AT&T is enforcing the part of the contract where it says (as clear as day) that you cannot use an iPhone data plan to tether data to other devices.
I'm not, I'm using Data that is taken from the Air by my Iphone and instead of being used to display what I'm doing on the phone its on my laptop or my browser is going to the same site I could view on my phone browser.

I'm not Downloading I'm using it to surf and use sites difficult to use on my phone but I could if have to.

"Unlimited data" isn't the issue here, Howdr. The type of devices allowed to use an iPhone data plan is. The amount of data they used by tethering is the issue per the previous articles and statements by At&t in the last 2 years.

I do not have all them handy but you can google the At&t and the worries they have over Data abuse and tethering.

tirexstorm
Mar 18, 2011, 12:58 PM
Will this affect people using tetherme or just mywi?

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 12:59 PM
The facts get distorted by deceptive TOS's from At&t and peoples own agendas.



It's not deceptive. It's just that people don't read it until they want to prove/disprove something.

People are more concerned with shortening their wait time/shopping experience online or in the store to get their hands on their devices more so than reading the terms and usage regarding those devices.

But that's not deceptive. You're confusing deceptive with laziness

C N Reilly
Mar 18, 2011, 12:59 PM
I'm not worried about this. There's only two possibilities:

1) AT&T is just assuming anyone who uses more than X amount of data must be tethering, and shooting out threats. In such a case, all you have to do is call them and tell them you stream a radio station all day. They take you off the "evil tetherer" list; end of problem. (I've already seen two people post elsewhere that this has worked for them.)

2) There actually is something in the software/firmware that's enabling AT&T to tell who's tethering. In this case, the jailbreakers will just add some code to the next release to block or fool that bit of code. End of problem.

All signs thus far point to (1) being the truth, btw.

aristobrat
Mar 18, 2011, 01:09 PM
Who cares?
I dont give a crap. My speeds are great even with all that.
Oh, OK. You're one of those "hey, everything is great for *me*, so what the hell are YOU complaining about people". Cool.

I work in a decent sized office building where 3G speed isn't consistently great. I also know of at least four people that bring their personal laptops and torrent via MyWi here during the day so that they don't get the DMCA notifications (and risk of getting their service canceled) from their home broadband provider (Cox Cable).

If these people want to pony up and pay for the bandwidth that they're using here, that's fine. But I bet they wont. And I also bet that overall speed for the AT&T 3G coverage where I spend the majority of my waking hours increases if they don't.

CrAkD
Mar 18, 2011, 01:09 PM
Woohoo I switched from my 1st gen wifi iPad with mywi on my iPhone to a 3G iPad 2 just in time.

Howdr
Mar 18, 2011, 01:10 PM
Look I'm not childish or demanding I just disagree with the way At&t has sucked many of us into the Unlimited plan from the beginning. After a time we all had it and they came out with the secrete 5GB idea. You want posts of me complaining back in 2008? Why ? I don't have to prove anything to anyone to state my opinion and dislike of the policy.

Don't point the finger at me and say I'm stealing, I paid for my internet use every month for over 3 years now.

I'll cut back on the righteous talk if the finger pointing stops.

I do not tether on a regular basis and have not for 6 months.

I do not Download with my phone except apps and docs.

I agree there can be abuse even with unlimited

(ie: the people who claim 90 and 120Gb a month DL)



You feel your right,

I feel I'm right,

we disagree, end of story :cool:

Also At&t will do this from time to time and unless something changes that stops them there is nothing we can do about it.

sawah
Mar 18, 2011, 01:14 PM
What the hell is your problem? AT&T has broken the law. Are you content with that?

Do you think it's appropriate for any company to sell an unlimited service, and make every attempt possible to limit it?

And how do YOU not get the giant paragraph in their TOS that says you can't tether it to another device?? Use all the unlimited data you want on your phone. A judge isn't gonna waive that all away.

Not to mention, At&t is warning you that you are gonna get charged for it, which also covers their butts. They aren't charging you for it without telling you in advance first.

We've all know for years that our cell phone companies charge way too much for things. We still choose to pay them.

Howdr
Mar 18, 2011, 01:14 PM
It's not deceptive. It's just that people don't read it until they want to prove/disprove something.

People are more concerned with shortening their wait time/shopping experience online or in the store to get their hands on their devices more so than reading the terms and usage regarding those devices.

But that's not deceptive. You're confusing deceptive with laziness

No in the TOS it states there is a limit to unlimited (5gb), deceptive.

As far as the tethering issue, at&t does not know whos tethering.
they are guessing............so yes its wrong for them they should have proof and its possible for them to have the proof but they are the lazy ones.

"I think you are guilty, but to have the proof takes too much time, just execute them"

We live in a time of reason ( I question this at times myself) and you cannot condemn people based on a belief you need the proof.

wpotere
Mar 18, 2011, 01:15 PM
Will this affect people using tetherme or just mywi?

Both as they both allow you to civumvent the contract that you agreed to with AT&T.

I have tethered in the past but stopped because I felt like I was stealing. This is my opinion and choice. Others clearly have found a way to justify doing it and have even gone so far as to say that AT&T is cheating them. Frankly I don't see this as you signed up for a phone, not broadband. For all of you that also think that the heavy usage doesn't affect you, when you start seeing new charges appear because they had to buy more equipment to deal with the higher bandwidth usage then you might change you mind.

Do I care if you keep doing it? Not really, but be aware that you are on their network and they can see what you are doing.

einmusiker
Mar 18, 2011, 01:16 PM
I'd like to see some kind of evidence that they can prove people are doing unauthorized tethering. You won't be seeing it so they really have nothing to charge you for. All we've heard so far is speculation and nothing more

Howdr
Mar 18, 2011, 01:16 PM
And how do YOU not get the giant paragraph in their TOS that says you can't tether it to another device?? Use all the unlimited data you want on your phone. A judge isn't gonna waive that all away.

............
But people have shown it does not say on the Data use they are tethering.

At&t cannot produce proof they are tethering

so a judge needs proof other then "Look Judge they used Data"

LOL WOW!:eek:

aristobrat
Mar 18, 2011, 01:18 PM
The amount of data they used by tethering is the issue per the previous articles and statements by At&t in the last 2 years.
It is, however, this thread isn't based on articles and statements made by AT&T over the last two years.

This thread is specifically based on "AT&T Cracking Down on Unauthorized Tethering", not "AT&T limiting iPhone data consumption for iPhones on unlimited data plans".

Maybe I'm reading your point wrong.

But if you advertise unlimited as At&t does and did, it should be unlimited no matter what (Slimey) lawyer drafts a document meant to swindle people is signed.
a Con game is still a con game, if i sign and pay for unlimited, it should be unlimited not what ever At&t decides.

I'm just saying that in regards to the unlimited iPhone data plan, you're still getting unlimited iPhone data. Where's the con?

samcraig
Mar 18, 2011, 01:21 PM
No in the TOS it states there is a limit to unlimited (5gb), deceptive.

As far as the tethering issue, at&t does not know whos tethering.
they are guessing............so yes its wrong for them they should have proof and its possible for them to have the proof but they are the lazy ones.

"I think you are guilty, but to have the proof takes too much time, just execute them"

We live in a time of reason ( I question this at times myself) and you cannot condemn people based on a belief you need the proof.

a) show me this 5gb limit. I see none and don't know anyone who has been charged for going over 5gb on their UNLIMITED plan on their iPhone

b) they don't know if you tether or not. That is your assumption. They're guessing? Yeah.. ok. The FACT is - you have no idea if they do or don't have proof. Perhaps wishful thinking.

joeshmo2010
Mar 18, 2011, 01:23 PM
I will always continue to use tethering with my unlimited. They will never make me switch and they can accuse all they want.

manman
Mar 18, 2011, 01:24 PM
AT&T is not being 'unfair', but nor is tethering 'stealing' lol.

The funny thing is, for all this argument this probably won't lead to anything. The majority of people will keep using whatever method they use to tether and most likely nothing will happen beyond a warning. Whether they're in the right or not, AT&T will get too much **** for 'auto' changing people's plans to a more expensive plan, ESPECIALLY if they are using automated methods to flag this, because as others have pointed out, people the complaints resulting from false positives will be a PR fiasco for them. Just like those stupid notices some people get from their cable companies for downloading certain torrents...everyone was like "They're cracking down!!!" Really? I've never seen one of those in my life, don't know anyone who has personally, and of all the people online I've seen report them I've never heard of anyone having their cable canceled, having any legal issues, etc... Not saying it hasn't happened but it must not have been that big of a crackdown if everyone is still doing it.

Ok, it's not the same because in this case AT&T is out to protect their own interests (as opposed to cable companies protecting the copyrights of others), but I still don't see this putting an end to homebrew tethering methods that let people use the data they purchased as they see fit. Yes it's against TOS, yes AT&T is fully within their rights to try and stop you, but...good luck.

aristobrat
Mar 18, 2011, 01:25 PM
No in the TOS it states there is a limit to unlimited (5gb), deceptive.
If you can actually find the TOS specific to the unlimited iPhone data plan, it doesn't mention a 5GB cap.

Old unlimited DataConnect Plans, and old unlimited smartphone/BlackBerry plans had that wording, but the unlimited iPhone data plan didn't.

I will always continue to use tethering with my unlimited. They will never make me switch and they can accuse all they want.
They don't have to make you switch. They can switch you plan automatically without you. If they do, you can probably cancel without paying an EFT since they changed the plan terms you originally agreed to.

Spanky Deluxe
Mar 18, 2011, 01:27 PM
It's only fair. After all, paying twice for our data allowance is completely fair and reasonable......




:rolleyes::rolleyes:

wpotere
Mar 18, 2011, 01:31 PM
They will never make me switch!!!!!! I will never give them any money!!!!!

No Service...

WTF???

:p

NikeTalk
Mar 18, 2011, 01:34 PM
Knowing AT&T they may just switch every iPhone user over, now that'd be hilarious..

Cutwolf
Mar 18, 2011, 01:35 PM
There are quite a lot of people in this thread who sound like AT&T employees trying to add to the scare tactics.

The cheapest and most efficient way for AT&T to "detect" tethering would be to monitor data usage and accuse high data users. They anticipate a lot of them will be uneducated and believe they have really been caught and switch to the official tethering plan (losing their unlimited, which I believe is AT&T ultimate goal here), or will simply ignore the text and they can automatically switch them, accomplishing the same thing.

If AT&T accuses you, and you refuse to switch to the new plan and claim you're not tethering, and they switch you anyway, you'd almost certainly be entitled to cancel with no ETF, legally at least. Particularly if they refused to do anything more than say "we suspect you are tethering" without providing any support.

To be fair, AT&T contract does say they can modify or terminate your account if the simply believe you are tethering, but no court would hold that belief, without a legitimate basis, is grounds for modification or termination, and it's hard to believe that 20 gb of data usage in a month would be a legitimate basis for that belief (those who are reaching ridiculous numbers like 50+ might be a different story.

My take (law student with no tech background): if they accuse you and send you the message, call them and play dumb and say you do a lot of streaming. If they buy it, great. If they end up switching you anyway, or forcing you to switch, you can presumably get out of the contract with no ETF. If this fails, and you have money to blow to prove a point, you can probably seek an injunction preventing AT&T from altering your contract, or a declaratory judgment that the contract permits you to get out of it without an ETF in this circumstance.

Odds are that AT&T would be unlikely to show up for any lawsuit filed by an individual over a few hundred bucks, which would entitle you to both the ETF and your legal fees.

Granted, I'm a student not yet a practitioner, so all of this should be taken with several grains of salt. Additionally, none of this should be construed to constitute legal advice.

DiamondMac
Mar 18, 2011, 01:35 PM
No in the TOS it states there is a limit to unlimited (5gb), deceptive.


As several others have said, SHOW us where it says that. Please

MacFly123
Mar 18, 2011, 01:46 PM
Option 3; STOP trying to cheat the system, and START using your iDevice the way the manufacturer designed it and the way your carrier supports it. (Is it unfair? YES! Are all of us iPhone users getting hosed, even though there's now two carriers? YES)

And while you're at it, knock off the piracy with the napster/limewire/torrent crap.

(Yeah, I said it! SOMEBODY had to!)

AMEN!

Do I think they are justified in classifying what data we use for what when we are on a plan that is supposed to be UNLIMITED? Not really! But that doesn't make it ok to be dishonest and steal things now does it?

Hopefully one day soon we will all just have 1 super fast LTE data plan that will tether to all of our devices and our cars at a reasonable price!

danpass
Mar 18, 2011, 01:47 PM
If I was tethering I would already know and I already pay for the full data plan thankyouverymuch.


Its not the price that bothers me ......... its the nickel and diming.




Grandfather plan: unlimited but no tethering

Now tethering is available but now its limited.

*&^% :rolleyes:

LeeTom
Mar 18, 2011, 01:55 PM
OPTION 3 - they're sniffing tcp/ip traffic and depending on the traffic can identify if the originating IP has a private addressing scheme. As an ISP, I imagine that you have some leeway to sniff traffic to solve problems, but I'm not sure if this would count as legitimate.

manman
Mar 18, 2011, 01:56 PM
But that doesn't make it ok to be dishonest and steal things now does it?

I can maybe get behind the whole 'dishonest' thing, but... seriously. If I have an iphone and an ipad, and I decide to surf some sites or stream music through pandora on my ipad using tethering instead of doing those exact same actions on my phone, I'm now 'stealing' that data even though it would have been the exact same usage?

I realize there are other scenarios you could bring up that would be more like 'taking advantage' of the system, but me personally- if I'm using the data in a way I feel is no different than I would be using with my phone, I don't have any bad conscience about it whether it's allowed or not.

fleggy
Mar 18, 2011, 01:58 PM
When are you all going to realize that this is marketing fluff?

Let me give you a possible scenario...(something to lighten the mood)

AT&T Infrastructure: Wow - these new smart phones use a lot of data. We need to restrict it.

AT&T Marketing: Yes, well, we can't tell customers the restrictions - it will lose us business. I want to tell them it is unlimited!

AT&T Infrastructure: No way...it will kill us - especially with tethering! I'd be happy with it restricted to the smart phone only.

AT&T Legal: We can insert a clause...restricting to this device only...no tethering.

AT&T Marketing: Yes, yes! I can just mention and promote unlimited, and the actual usage can be buried in the ToS. I like it.

AT&T release "unlimited data for the iPhone" knowing full well that even if your iPhone downloads 24x7 - their network can handle it (although this will never happen in reality).

Everyone flocks to buy it and SIGN UP.

Selecting which part of the service to market IS mis-leading, however...it is pretty clear - "this device only".

Everything in America is like this. Marketing is a black art form here!! You can't pick and choose which parts of the marketing and ToS you like!

intoxicated662
Mar 18, 2011, 02:17 PM
You get what you deserve and for those of you who kept telling others about an Unlock and to suffer the consequences, KARMA.

manman
Mar 18, 2011, 02:28 PM
You get what you deserve and for those of you who kept telling others about an Unlock and to suffer the consequences, KARMA.

wha?

xlambodog
Mar 18, 2011, 02:40 PM
To start off, I do not want to get intimate with the moral aspect of this. Everyone has their opinion.

On my end, I have a jail-broken iPhone 3GS on 4.2.1, with MyWi installed, and I have a grand-fathered unlimited plan.

I want to tether for that 1 time where I really need internet on my laptop when I am out and about, and maybe when I am out camping and I have my laptop.

Most of us have MyWi so we can do this, right? It's more of a backup system. I've used it only twice, including the time I tested it. I don't picture people using tethering everyday, or even for prolonged periods of time. Why doesn't AT&T just provide users the ability to tether 5-10 times a month? Then if you need more "access" you can pay for it?

When I say "access", imagine a "movie ticket" that grants you access to the movie. If you want to see a different "movie" at a different time, you need another "movie ticket."

Right now, most of us want access to the theater, and hope to see another movie without another ticket

Obviously, this solution is not completely worked out, but does anyone see where I am going with this?

ET007
Mar 18, 2011, 02:48 PM
Just because a company makes you sign their TOS, it does not make the TOS a Holy Grail law. TOS are only written in the best interest of a company and they are very often faulty.

Unfortunately in some countries, people forget to use common sense and reasoning and take everything the way it is BECAUSE it was written in the TOS, as so many people keep quoting in this forum.There is no such thing as a perfect TOS and even if you sign it, it does not mean you cannot challenge it.

Just because the TOS says so and you sign it, it does not make it right or the law. If it did, a lot of legal professionals would be unemployed and a lot of average Joes/Janes would be in jail.

AT&T is in the business to make money. They will take whatever they can get and however they can get it. AT&T is just as unethical as ......(you get to fill in the blanks ;)). It is up to the consumer to challenge AT&T's faulty TOS instead of just being passive, quoting and accepting it. It is amazing and worrisome how accepting some people are in this forum. I guess they do not teach critical thinking anymore in schools and/or colleges.

The sad part is that big companies are in bed with the politicians (republicans and democrats in the US) so the government will never step in to protect the interest of consumers.:mad:

MacFly123
Mar 18, 2011, 02:50 PM
I can maybe get behind the whole 'dishonest' thing, but... seriously. If I have an iphone and an ipad, and I decide to surf some sites or stream music through pandora on my ipad using tethering instead of doing those exact same actions on my phone, I'm now 'stealing' that data even though it would have been the exact same usage?

I realize there are other scenarios you could bring up that would be more like 'taking advantage' of the system, but me personally- if I'm using the data in a way I feel is no different than I would be using with my phone, I don't have any bad conscience about it whether it's allowed or not.

I thought I made clear in my post that this is simply double billing what is supposed to be an unlimited plan for many and I do NOT agree nor think it is ethical for the carriers to do this! But, when people sign a contract and agree to the terms doing otherwise is not being honest. Plain and simple.

alhedges
Mar 18, 2011, 02:55 PM
If this fails, and you have money to blow to prove a point, you can probably seek an injunction preventing AT&T from altering your contract, or a declaratory judgment that the contract permits you to get out of it without an ETF in this circumstance.

Odds are that AT&T would be unlikely to show up for any lawsuit filed by an individual over a few hundred bucks, which would entitle you to both the ETF and your legal fees.

Granted, I'm a student not yet a practitioner, so all of this should be taken with several grains of salt. Additionally, none of this should be construed to constitute legal advice.
There's a binding arbitration clause in the TOS.