What do you do to live a more sustainable life?

[imac/cheese]

As a sustainability professional, I am always interested in what people from around the world do to live a more sustainable life. I would love to hear what actions you take in your daily life to reduce your impact on the environment and if anyone would like me to help them quantify the impact of their efforts, I would be glad to do so.

[rdowns]

I do the obvious, easy things. I recycle, use cloth bags at the grocery store, have some CFC bulbs, try to buy things with minimal packaging.

[Sydde]

How does the environmental balance sheet work out between my kitchen vs. the cafe on the corner? Generally speaking, cooking from scratch, at what point do I become as efficient? How much do I have to make/how many to I have to feed to be comparable to food service?

[Ugg]

Two years ago yesterday I quit smoking and sold my car. The reason for selling my car was that by riding my bicycle, I would burn off some of that excess energy. My car was getting a little old and needed some work so my "reward" for quitting would be a new car in the fall.

Well, I really liked getting around on my bike, my neighbor has a truck in case I need to haul anything big and 2 years ago, ZipCar came to town. It's also pretty cheap to rent a car for the weekend or even a week if I want to go further afield.

I also have a small veggie garden, shop at the local, year round farmer's market (much of the produce is less expensive than at the store) and recycle everything I can. Nor do I eat a lot of red meat, but that's been the case since I was very young so it's not really a matter of effort, more one of personal preference.

I also try to encourage other people when it comes to sustainability. Every little bit helps.

[Lord Blackadder]

My biggest move towards "sustainability" was relocating within walking distance of work. Now I get 60 mins of walking in every day in additon to saving on fuel.

The rest is small stuff: not using the diswasher in my apartment, re-usable cloth grocery bags, installing compact fluorescent lighting, turning lights off when not in use, etc. It's harder to be efficient in an apartment, where so much is out of the renter's control, but there are plenty of little things one can do.

[citizenzen]

... re-usable cloth grocery bags ...

This may not seem like a big deal, but the awareness of our use of plastics and reducing the need for them is no small matter. I've got a good supply of grocery bags and also reusable washable produce bags. And I take pains to not use that plastic bag, fork, or whatever for a few moments before discarding it to have it remain in our environment for ... ever.

It starts with awareness, turns into practice and becomes a habit ... one which we should all take on.

[ender land]

I bought one of these:
http://www.penmachine.com/images/focuswagon_big.jpg
instead of one of these:

http://www.carseek.com/intc/large_images/07360MazdaMAZDASpe14352.jpg

I'm also debating buying a road bike for the summer to commute to work - it will be roughly 55 miles round trip but I am unsure if there are shower facilities or paths to there as of yet.

I also recycle, use grocery bags as trash bags, and take the bus to work (or bike, roughly 2.5 miles).

(sweet, you guys make me feel like I'm actually doing stuff :D)

[Lord Blackadder]

It starts with awareness, turns into practice and becomes a habit ... one which we should all take on.

True. It's also important to approach it sensibly. Some eco-crazies like to point out every little bit of wastage and impose Catholic levels of guilt over it. The fact is, we all still waste energy in one way or another. This isn't about becoming an environmentalist saint - it's about each individual learning how to be a little more efficient, and to make more sustainable consumer/lifestyle choices...the net effect is huge even if the individual contributions are modest.

[Ugg]

True. It's also important to approach it sensibly. Some eco-crazies like to point out every little bit of wastage and impose Catholic levels of guilt over it. The fact is, we all still waste energy in one way or another. This isn't about becoming an environmentalist saint - it's about each individual learning how to be a little more efficient, and to make more sustainable consumer/lifestyle choices...the net effect is huge even if the individual contributions are modest.

Absolutely. Conservation (why isn't that a theme of the conservatives?) even when it's only a matter of small steps can have a huge impact.

Not using energy is much less espensive than building new capacity.

[SuperCachetes]

Two years ago yesterday I quit smoking...

Good for you! I quit smoking about 4 years ago. I cut back my drinking by 95% around the same time, and that was much harder mentally because it's so widely accepted.

Not using energy is much less espensive than building new capacity.

Word.

In addition to CFLs, recycling, and the usual household conservation tactics, I commute on a motorcycle 10 months out of the year.

I also use Green Mountain (http://www.greenmountainenergy.com/) even though I'm not sure it is financially superior to the local coal/gas alternative anymore. I don't scrutinize the bills, so I really don't worry about the kWh rate.

I've heard skeptics complain that the power I consume at home can't be offset on the grid with Green Mountain's renewable energy (hydro/wind) production 100%. That might be true, but it wouldn't concern me anyway. I'd rather be using 80% renewable energy than waiting for a perfect 100% solution.

[citizenzen]

True. It's also important to approach it sensibly. Some eco-crazies like to point out every little bit of wastage and impose Catholic levels of guilt over it. The fact is, we all still waste energy in one way or another.

We can't live without using energy.

But the all-american habit of wrapping that hamburger in a styrofoam container that lasts for a minute or two before being thrown in the trash needs to be completely rethought.

I'm not looking for guilt. Guilt is a largely wasted emotion. I'm looking for wisdom.

[Big-TDI-Guy]

I do what I can - which is far more than most people in my area.

I can't help but see the irony with this thread on a website that celebrates rampant buying of new technology. It makes me think of Futurama - Attack of the Killer App. ;)

[citizenzen]

I can't help but see the irony with this thread on a website that celebrates rampant buying of new technology.

I don't see new technology in itself as being the problem. If everybody stuck with old technology and heated our homes with firewood or coal we'd be in a bigger mess than we are now.

[imac/cheese]

How does the environmental balance sheet work out between my kitchen vs. the cafe on the corner? Generally speaking, cooking from scratch, at what point do I become as efficient? How much do I have to make/how many to I have to feed to be comparable to food service?

There are a lot of factors that go into this comparison.

- Packaging: You will normally have a lot more packaging for the products you buy compared to the bulk products that are used at the cafe. If you are getting take-out, the packaging they use for your food would be a lot harder on the environment than using your dishes at home.
- Solid Waste: Restaurants often throw their waste food into the garbage where it goes to a landfill. They also often do not recycling (depending on how difficult it is to do) so you can easily beat the cafe in this case if you compost your scraps and recycle your trash. Some cafes handle their waste a lot better than others.
- Shipping: If you buy a lot of local food products and the cafe buys bulk shipments from far off, the enviromental impact of shipping your food purchases could be considerably less than that of the cafe.
- Energy: This gets pretty complicated. If you eat at times when the cafe is pretty busy and they are already firing all of their ovens and cooking equipment, your additional meal doesn't really add additional energy usage. In that case you would probably not be able to compete with the cafe in terms of energy use no matter how many people you cook for. If you eat at a time when the cafe is not busy, and they have to start up one of the bigger ovens to cook your meal, it might have been more energy efficient to stay at home. The cafe also has a lot of energy overhead (lights, signage, A/C, etc) that would be added to each meal. Of course they are going to use that energy whether you eat there or not, but it is something to consider.

Bottom line: If you walk to eat at a busy cafe that is environmentally conscience, you would have a difficult time be more efficient by cooking at home.

Two years ago yesterday I quit smoking and sold my car. The reason for selling my car was that by riding my bicycle, I would burn off some of that excess energy. My car was getting a little old and needed some work so my "reward" for quitting would be a new car in the fall.

Well, I really liked getting around on my bike, my neighbor has a truck in case I need to haul anything big and 2 years ago, ZipCar came to town. It's also pretty cheap to rent a car for the weekend or even a week if I want to go further afield.

What is your climate? I would love to ride my bike to work, but I have found that my co-workers don't want me to ride my bike at all during the summer time.

My biggest move towards "sustainability" was relocating within walking distance of work. Now I get 60 mins of walking in every day in additon to saving on fuel.

That is huge for the environment, the pocketbook, and the body.

The rest is small stuff: not using the diswasher in my apartment, re-usable cloth grocery bags, installing compact fluorescent lighting, turning lights off when not in use, etc. It's harder to be efficient in an apartment, where so much is out of the renter's control, but there are plenty of little things one can do.

Depending the the type and age of the dishwasher your apartment has, it might be energy and water efficient to use it on energy saver mode versus handwashing. Especially if you only use full loads. The news ones don't use much water and only use a small amount of energy to heat the water and pump it around. It also depends on your handwashing style. My dishwasher uses about half the water to wash a full load compared to what I would use to wash them all by hand, and since the water used for handwashing would have been heated using my water heater, it saves about 1/3 the energy as well.

[R.Perez]

My carbon footprint is quite small, even with quite a bit of electronics in my house. I am vegan (have been going on 15 years now), and only drive 10 or so miles a day.

You can actually calculate your carbon footprint here....

http://www.nature.org/greenliving/carboncalculator/

here is my result

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7307/capturewbs.png

[hulugu]

I ride my bike to work and school
I installed a rain-water harvesting system to water my yard.
And the garden.
I replaced the doors and windows of my home and sealed the duct-work, etc. to make the house more efficient.
Although we drive a mid-size SUV, we drive it rarely enough that I have to do maintenence based on time rather than mileage.
I helped dig trenches for the 'curb cuts' around my neighborhood, which will harvest rainwater from the street and direct it to trees we've planted. This will eventually create more greenery in the urban heat island, lowering the local temperature and in effect lowering cooling costs for the neighborhood.
Recycle
Installed CFC or LED bulbs throughout.
Replaced dishwasher, heater/AC, stove, oven, toilets for more efficient units. It's an old house.
Installed new thermostat that can be scheduled, so the temperature can shift throughout the day.
Future plans include solar water-heater, solar array, and shades for the west-side of the house.


EDIT: I just took the Nature Conservancy's carbon footprint calculator, my household's total emission is 31 tons of CO2—twice the world average, but less than half of the US average. Now, mine will fluctuate because of air-travel this year, but still that's amazing.

[184550]

Eh, I recycle and use cloth grocery bags.

That's about the extent of it.

[KingYaba]

I like plastic grocery bags and I insist on receiving them. I use them to clean up after my two dogs, I use them as trash bags, and I use them to carry my lunch. :o

[Ugg]

What is your climate? I would love to ride my bike to work, but I have found that my co-workers don't want me to ride my bike at all during the summer time.


I live north of Sacramento, CA so the weather here is pretty mild and commuting distances are not long.

Workplace showers are definitely a good thing.

[hulugu]

I like plastic grocery bags and I insist on receiving them. I use them to clean up after my two dogs, I use them as trash bags, and I use them to carry my lunch. :o

Plastic bags are good for these kinds of tasks, I agree. However, they don't degrade, so they're a nuisance in many cases.

After a severe windstorm here, I went hiking in a canyon near the city. There were dozens of the bags caught in trees and cactus, so I grabbed the ones I could get at, hiking out with a full backpack of plastic shopping bags from Target, Walmart, and various groceries stores.

With this in mind, it would be nice if companies shifted to the corn-based biodegradable bags. These would still serve your purposes, but I wouldn't have to worry about the local wildlife—coyotes and other animals eat them—choking on someone's trash.

[imac/cheese]

I also use Green Mountain (http://www.greenmountainenergy.com/) even though I'm not sure it is financially superior to the local coal/gas alternative anymore. I don't scrutinize the bills, so I really don't worry about the kWh rate.

I've heard skeptics complain that the power I consume at home can't be offset on the grid with Green Mountain's renewable energy (hydro/wind) production 100%. That might be true, but it wouldn't concern me anyway. I'd rather be using 80% renewable energy than waiting for a perfect 100% solution.

I have never heard that Green Energy sells more alternative energy than they purchase or produce. They have a pretty good reputation. Have the skeptics ever produced any evidence or are they simply repeating something someone else said?

From what I understand, there are some price lock-ins available with Green Mountain Energy, but I think it does cost a penny or so more per kWh.

My carbon footprint is quite small, even with quite a bit of electronics in my house. I am vegan (have been going on 15 years now), and only drive 10 or so miles a day.

You can actually calculate your carbon footprint here....



I imagine that living in Honolulu, you don't use much energy to heat or cool your home. How long does it take you to drive 10 miles a day? I hear the traffic there can be quite horrible.


I ride my bike to work and school
I installed a rain-water harvesting system to water my yard.
And the garden.
I replaced the doors and windows of my home and sealed the duct-work, etc. to make the house more efficient.
Although we drive a mid-size SUV, we drive it rarely enough that I have to do maintenence based on time rather than mileage.
I helped dig trenches for the 'curb cuts' around my neighborhood, which will harvest rainwater from the street and direct it to trees we've planted. This will eventually create more greenery in the urban heat island, lowering the local temperature and in effect lowering cooling costs for the neighborhood.
Recycle
Installed CFC or LED bulbs throughout.
Replaced dishwasher, heater/AC, stove, oven, toilets for more efficient units. It's an old house.
Installed new thermostat that can be scheduled, so the temperature can shift throughout the day.
Future plans include solar water-heater, solar array, and shades for the west-side of the house.


Excellent list. I would love to hear about any pros and cons that you have discovered for any of those actions.

[R.Perez]

I imagine that living in Honolulu, you don't use much energy to heat or cool your home. How long does it take you to drive 10 miles a day? I hear the traffic there can be quite horrible.





its true, but I live in town, so no traffic for me. My girlfriend and I share a car, and sometimes I use the bus. But when we do drive it goes like this....

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/4228/capturekie.jpg

Add in the occasional stop at the grocery store, or at a local vegan place for dinner here and there.

[Rt&Dzine]

I like plastic grocery bags and I insist on receiving them. I use them to clean up after my two dogs, I use them as trash bags, and I use them to carry my lunch. :o

Hopefully not in that order.

[hulugu]

...
Excellent list. I would love to hear about any pros and cons that you have discovered for any of those actions.

Biking is mostly a benefit, but there are times where it just doesn't work because of time, distance, or I have to arrive somewhere in a presentable fashion. Also, my son is eight months and I'm not comfortable biking with him yet.
I also use a lot of deodorant, especially in the summer.

The improvements to the house, including replacing the bulbs, appliances, etc. were mostly done on an as-needed basis. We didn't toss the dishwasher until it broke, but when it did we spent more money on the high-efficiency model. We did the same thing with other appliances and our toilet, looking for deals and taking our tax benefits when available.

For CFCs, the right temperature bulb is a longer-lasting, more efficient version of the old ones. I find myself replacing bulbs at a far lower rate than before and year-over-year I see a difference in energy usage.

We did the same with the Heater/AC system, which is the lion's share of our energy usage. The cost difference was $2,000 or so, but we save about $25 per month versus another system, so it will take about six years to recoup our cost. We figure the system will last about 10 years.

The rainwater harvesting system was more hobby than cost-benefit, water is cheap here, so to recoup construction costs we'd have to use it for 15 years, which sound unlikely.

The other rainwater systems were paid with neighborhood improvement grant money, but I think it's a good beautification project for the neighborhood. We'll have mature mesquites and palo verde shading the street, fed by harvested rainwater. The benefit analysis is hard to do for these projects, but it's fun to do and construction is relatively easy—the city cuts the curbs, we provide the rock, gravel, and plants. And the muscle.

Some of the items I've done have improved my personal life, some have saved money, but each has resulted in a cut in our usage. You don't have to live like a monk, you just have to think of this as a larger, long-term goal.

[Iscariot]

I don't eat meat
I compost
I recycle
I buy used often and sell or donate my goods
Low energy bulbs
Take public transit
Unplug electronics when not in use and switch off vampire devices
Use chemical free household cleaners whenever possible
Use chemical free, organic or recycled toiletries often


I'm sure there's more that I do, but I'm not comfortable with the idea of taking too much personal pride in the topic or carving out an identity based on my contributions. While I like to think I make an effort, I'm sure I could do more, and there are plenty of people who make far more (or perhaps far less) of an impact than I do.

[imac/cheese]

I don't eat meat
I compost
I recycle
I buy used often and sell or donate my goods
Low energy bulbs
Take public transit
Unplug electronics when not in use and switch off vampire devices
Use chemical free household cleaners whenever possible
Use chemical free, organic or recycled toiletries often


I'm sure there's more that I do, but I'm not comfortable with the idea of taking too much personal pride in the topic or carving out an identity based on my contributions. While I like to think I make an effort, I'm sure I could do more, and there are plenty of people who make far more (or perhaps far less) of an impact than I do.

I am not trying to make this some sort of pat-ourselves-on-the-back thread. I really am interested in seeing what others are doing and share ideas and knowledge about sustainable practices. It is always interesting to see how people from different parts of the world deal with the issue of sustainability.

[citizenzen]

I'm sure there's more that I do ...

One thing that hasn't been mentioned but is quite important is: supporting politicians who make environmental issues a priority and voting for initiatives that promote sustainability.

It sounds like most—if not all—of you are already doing that.

That's one reason I enjoy PRSI so much. It's filled with aware, intelligent and concerned people.

[pats everyone on back]

[Iscariot]

I am not trying to make this some sort of pat-ourselves-on-the-back thread. I really am interested in seeing what others are doing and share ideas and knowledge about sustainable practices. It is always interesting to see how people from different parts of the world deal with the issue of sustainability.

I wasn't trying to imply you were, I just felt like saying much more would be misplaced bragging on my part. I believe your intentions are genuine :)

[JoeG4]

I drive a car that gets 16mpg about 12,000 miles a year. However, the entire family uses that one car for that much mileage in the whole year.. so it sorta balances itself out.

We live in a small-ish house in a place that doesn't need AC so.. we only use heat when it gets cold and that saves $$, then there's all those CFL bulbs that I'm slowly beginning to despise because they flicker and I'm sorta sensitive to flickering light. That, and they all produce these god awful shades of greenish yellow light sometimes.. Ever sit in a large room at night with only a 12w CFL on? It's harsh.

I eat a LOT of take out/to go/whatever food. I'm studying engineering and have no time to deal with that crap. My family members are also crazy busy and have no time to deal with it. Funny how the college puts so much pressure on students to be healthy but then doesn't give you time to exercise. My neighborhood sucks so I don't do morning jogs here.

Our garbage company charges $51 a month for ONE garbage can picked up twice a week, and two very large recycling bins so you can bet we recycle everything we possibly can. And then there's CRV, so you're F-ed into that too.

I would take the bus instead of driving to my classes, but the city bus here comes by twice a day and even if I did do that, it'd take about 2.5 hours to get to class in a way that takes me 20 minutes by car and probably consumes far less gas on my part XD

Cloth bags? I have cloth AND plastic bags. I need plastic bags for certain things and that's an easy way to get them for free :D

[Lord Blackadder]

Depending the the type and age of the dishwasher your apartment has, it might be energy and water efficient to use it on energy saver mode versus handwashing. Especially if you only use full loads. The news ones don't use much water and only use a small amount of energy to heat the water and pump it around. It also depends on your handwashing style. My dishwasher uses about half the water to wash a full load compared to what I would use to wash them all by hand, and since the water used for handwashing would have been heated using my water heater, it saves about 1/3 the energy as well.

That's true, the newer ones are much more efficent.

The dishwasher in my apartment is at least 15 years old though. I ran it once when I first moved in, and it ran for well over an hour, and seemed to be using biblical-deluge amounts of water. Plus, while I do a lot of cooking at home it's only for myself and Lady Blackadder, so we don't generate enough dirty cookware in one day to fill the dishwasher up.

Also (and it sounds absurdly simple but it it wasn't immediately obvious to me), I've gotten much better about not blasting the water when I do the dishes, and not using hot water unless it's necessary. It's just one of those little things that becomes second nature once you get into the habit of it.

[hulugu]

That's true, the newer ones are much more efficent.

The dishwasher in my apartment is at least 15 years old though. I ran it once when I first moved in, and it ran for well over an hour, and seemed to be using biblical-deluge amounts of water. Plus, while I do a lot of cooking at home it's only for myself and Lady Blackadder, so we don't generate enough dirty cookware in one day to fill the dishwasher up.

Also (and it sounds absurdly simple but it it wasn't immediately obvious to me), I've gotten much better about not blasting the water when I do the dishes, and not using hot water unless it's necessary. It's just one of those little things that becomes second nature once you get into the habit of it.

Our old dishwasher was like yours, but the new one is ridiculously efficient in comparison and with our son we produce enough dishes to fill it nearly every night.

[senseless]

Everything that's very convenient I embrace, while hypocritically pointing out other people's wasteful habits.

[imac/cheese]

Does anyone here work for a company that does a lot in the workplace to be sustainable? Does you company make it easy to be sustainable or do you really have to go out of your way?

I wasn't trying to imply you were, I just felt like saying much more would be misplaced bragging on my part. I believe your intentions are genuine :)

I wouldn't consider it bragging at all. I personally really enjoy seeing the difference that a single person can make and that some people are actually able to live in a very sustainable manner.

I know my own life is a bit of a mixture when it comes to sustainability. In my job, I am very green and have helped my employers save millions of dollars worth of energy and greatly reduce their impact on the environment. But in my personal life, I find it more difficult to live in a sustainable way if it is not convenient.

- I don't eat meat but it is not for sustainability reasons.
- I don't have kids but it is not for sustainability reasons.
- I recycle some things, but my town makes it very difficult.
- I use a fraction of the energy that others do to heat and cool my house per square foot, but it is not a little house and we have a lot of unnecessary space.
- I replace incandescents with CFLs once they are burnt out.
- I vote for people who care about the environment. Most of the time it doesn't do much.
- I don't buy something unless I know I am going to be able to use it for a long time and fully wear it out. This is more because I hate wasting money than for the environment.
- I really enjoy reusing something to extend its life.
- I donate anything that still has life left to it when I am done with it.
- I drive too much, but my car gets almost 40 mpg.
- I use power generated by coal, but it is the only choice in my town. My electricity is so cheap that it makes it difficult to justify any home solar or wind projects.
- I don't garden or compost, but would love to if I had more time (read: desire).
- I do not purchase any carbon offsets, because I have seen first hand how some of those are a complete waste of money and I use that as an excuse not to purcahse any of the ones that are actually doing good.
- I don't take public transit because my time is more important to me than the gas I use driving.


Everything that's very convenient I embrace, while hypocritically pointing out other people's wasteful habits.

You have pretty much summed up my career.

[MattSepeta]

I put my smokes out on trees and I heat my house using my shower while maintaining airflow with my AC.

Just kidding, clearly.

But seriously, what in the heck do you do as a "Sustainability Professional?"

Me, I
- buy used goods
- walk/bike/skateboard places in the summer
- drive a stick shift 2 door
- Use paper bags for groceries, which I then reuse for recycling. I also reuse plastic bags for cat litter cleaning etc
- I buy recycled things when I can

All of this was said with my eyes closed
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTgQBB7PG-SVYuwuc35SewMlazw7c5Avy9QcEwWBdgPnfalyP2p

[imac/cheese]

But seriously, what in the heck do you do as a "Sustainability Professional?"

I am an engineer focused on energy management and carbon reduction.

[senseless]

I think we all have to admit that until it hits us in the wallet, we're not going to do a whole lot to save energy. Make it more expensive and reward those that conserve.

[JoeG4]

The only way I'd ever ok price increases "to encourage conservation" is if the money was put into projects that helped everyone - not into some exec's pocket.

I wonder when we'll get more efficient busses. Out in the suburb I live I think they'd be much better suited with a fleet of electric Sprinter-like vans for the times of day when a particular route isn't busy.

[imac/cheese]

I think we all have to admit that until it hits us in the wallet, we're not going to do a whole lot to save energy. Make it more expensive and reward those that conserve.

There is no doubt about that. Companies and departments in locations with high utility expenses are often doing considerably more regarding energy conservation than those in locations where the energy is cheap.

There is also a program that a lot of federal and state governments use called the energy savings performance contract. This program normally requires the energy costs savings to pay for the project within 20 years. It is a lot easier to pay back a capital investment when your electrical is $0.15/kWh compared to other locations where it might be $0.04/kWh.

The only way I'd ever ok price increases "to encourage conservation" is if the money was put into projects that helped everyone - not into some exec's pocket.

Kind of like a carbon tax?

I wonder when we'll get more efficient busses. Out in the suburb I live I think they'd be much better suited with a fleet of electric Sprinter-like vans for the times of day when a particular route isn't busy.

I have always found that the problem with commuting from the suburbs or small towns on a bus is that it takes 3-4 times as long as commuting by car. It takes me about 10 minutes to drive to work and about 45 minutes if I try to take the bus. I can actually ride my bike to work faster than I can ride the bus.

They do have a lot of natural gas busses on the market these days and I know numerous towns, cities, and universities are moving in that direction. I have even seen a few electric buses. Prince of Songkla University in Thailand has recently added several electric busses with some success.

[MattSepeta]

I agree that we really do need to do something. We need to revolutionize transportation particularly as well as every other industry.

It's not going to get done until college kids stop studying "political science" and "energy policy" and start walking the walk, studying real things that can actually make the change happen, like, you know, engineering :confused:

[mscriv]

I think we all have to admit that until it hits us in the wallet, we're not going to do a whole lot to save energy.

I am an engineer focused on energy management and carbon reduction.

Maybe with your expertise you can help explain why "going green" is so expensive. Sure I do the basics like recycle, buy used products, use CFL light bulbs, use cloth bags at some grocery stores, etc. etc.. However, these are easy and affordable things to do. It seems like most of the more substantial personal options regarding "going green" end up costing you more money than they save you and thus there is little motivation to do so.

For example, here are some general observations:

- Hybrid cars costing more than regular cars to the point that in most cases you will not break even or save money on fuel costs before you get rid of the car.

- Tankless hot water heaters costing much more than traditional systems and thus savings may not even out for a long period of time.

- Solar panel systems are so expensive that adding them to your home can be cost prohibitive for the average home owner and again the savings do not even out for a long period of time.

*keep in mind the average homeowner moves every 7 years so any costs associated with improvements to your home might not be recoupped by the time you sell and move. Hopefully, these improvements will garner you a higher sale price, but in this economy there is no guarantee.

I'm sure there are other things that I'm missing and by no means am I an expert. I just find it challenging to live a conservationist or sustainable lifestyle when doing so would be much more expensive for my family. I'm not arguing against living this way, I'm just expressing the inherent contradiction I see that makes it cost prohibitive for myself and I would generalize that to the average person/family in this current economy.

Another thought... I read a year or so ago in a magazine that one of the best "inventions" of the year was roof shingles/tiling that had built in solar panel technology. These new shingles basicall convert your entire roof into one huge solar panel that can sustain your energy consumption. Now tell me this, if our nation is so concerned about energy conservation then why wouldn't we make this new product the de facto standard for all new construction. Of course there are economic factors involved, but just like they set standards for auto makers they could set such a standard in the housing/building industry. Credits and subsidies could be offered for upgrading to this technology on old construction. My point is that if this is such a priority then the government is going to have to help people make the transition because as I've mentioned doing so on an individual basis can be cost prohibitive.

[rdowns]

^^ The oil lobby showers Congress with way more money than green energy companies.

[imac/cheese]

Maybe with your expertise you can help explain why "going green" is so expensive. Sure I do the basics like recycle, buy used products, use CFL light bulbs, use cloth bags at some grocery stores, etc. etc.. However, these are easy and affordable things to do. It seems like most of the more substantial personal options regarding "going green" end up costing you more money than they save you and thus there is little motivation to do so.

It is hard but not impossible to go green and save money without sacrificing some conveniences. The most impactful sustainable actions that people can take are true changes of lifestyle. Smaller homes and cars. Fewer cars. Living closer to work and community. Less consumption of goods and services. Sharing of products within the community (how many people in the neighborhood need to purchase a roto-tiller?) Living in milder climates.

For example, here are some general observations:

- Hybrid cars costing more than regular cars to the point that in most cases you will not break even or save money on fuel costs before you get rid of the car.

Hybrid cars almost never pay back financially when compared to high efficiency internal combustion cars. The increased initial investement and increased maintenance costs over the life of the car eat up any savings from fuel efficiency. Sometimes you can get an energy incentive to help offset this difference. In addition, you never really know what gas prices are going to do so it is tough to make a financial decision without a crystal ball.

Electric cars are even worse. And in some places worse for the environment. If you are running a chevy volt in Colorado for example where the carbon output per MWh of electricity produced is the highest in the country, you are actually putting more carbon in the air with the volt than you would with a mid-sized sedan running off gasoline getting 30 mpg.

- Tankless hot water heaters costing much more than traditional systems and thus savings may not even out for a long period of time.

An energy saving thermal blanket on a standard water heater will save a lot of energy and normally pay for itself in a few years depending on the cost of natural gas or electricity in your area. A tankless water heater might pay for itself if you use it for the entire life of the heater, but the real benefit is in space requirements.

- Solar panel systems are so expensive that adding them to your home can be cost prohibitive for the average home owner and again the savings do not even out for a long period of time.

Solar thermal panels almost always pay for themselves (again depending on the utility costs in your area) but with Solar PV is difficult to see any return on investment. The costs are coming down and for many applications they make a lot of sense, but for the average consumer they are not worth the initial investment.

I just find it challenging to live a conservationist or sustainable lifestyle when doing so would be much more expensive for my family. I'm not arguing against living this way, I'm just expressing the inherent contradiction I see that makes it cost prohibitive for myself and I would generalize that to the average person/family in this current economy.

It is tough. In larger facilities, the main things we are focusing on are the following:

- Lighting retrofits. Current fluourscent T-8 4 foot tubes use about 25 watts per bulb, compared to older T-8 tubes that use 32 watts or T-12 tubes that use over 40 watts. That makes a huge difference across a large facility. We have not found that LED lighting pays for itself at all, but in some situations the quality of light is so important that LED might still be a good fit and save energy at the same time.

- Building Envelope. Sealing doors and windows and insulating areas that are not insulated or underinsulated has a pretty good payback. This easily translates to a home and can save a lot in heating and cooling bills.

- Time of day usage: This is basic conservation expanded to the entire facility. If you do not need something to be on, turn it off. This applies to all electronics including lighting, appliances, TVs, stereos, cell phone chargers, printers, computers, etc. It also applies to HVAC systems. If no one is in the building or room, we don't need it to be 70 degrees. It can be set up automatically with motion sensors or it can be done through an education program where people are taught to turn things off when not using them.

Initial Design: It is a lot easier to pay for a new energy efficient system than it is to pay for a retrofit. The new system can be fully integrated into the facility while sometimes it is hard to retrofit an energy efficient system into an existing facility.

Synergy: I find that often it is best to combine energy efficient or green technologies with an existing need that isn't being met. For example, if your existing water heater is not big enough to provide water for everyone to shower, but you don't have space for a bigger tank, it is the perfect opportunity to go tankless and save energy at the same time.

Another thought... I read a year or so ago in a magazine that one of the best "inventions" of the year was roof shingles/tiling that had built in solar panel technology. These new shingles basicall convert your entire roof into one huge solar panel that can sustain your energy consumption. Now tell me this, if our nation is so concerned about energy conservation then why wouldn't we make this new product the de facto standard for all new construction. Of course there are economic factors involved, but just like they set standards for auto makers they could set such a standard in the housing/building industry. Credits and subsidies could be offered for upgrading to this technology on old construction. My point is that if this is such a priority then the government is going to have to help people make the transition because as I've mentioned doing so on an individual basis can be cost prohibitive.

There are a lot of great technologies out there that can offer energy savings or even energy production, but there is always a cost associated with them whether it is initial costs or maintenance costs. If you live in an area with high winds or hail storms, solar panel roof tiles could get very expensive to replace and maintain. Roofs in some areas of the country are replaced every 5-10 years due to hail damage. I have seen some excellent solar tech, but none of it pays for itself if you have cheap electricity rates and access to the grid.

I really don't think our nation as a whole is all that concerned about energy conservation. Lots of people give it lip service, but when it comes down to it, if it doesn't save money, it isn't going to fly.

[rasmasyean]

I don't really live a "sustainable life". I use CFL's but found that although I initially wanted to be "green" in getting them, it was just me buying into the hype as an excuse to get them. The real reason is because I don't want to change bulbs often and are cheap about electricity, and like the different colors available.

Deep down, I believe that most of what the individual does makes a really unnoticable impact because not enough ppl do it anyway. And mankind overall will find better solutions to "save the earth" when the technology is available. And in reality humans don't care about the "earth" in itself. We just want to keep it in good enough shape to support our own habits while killing everything else in our way...animals, plants, etc.

Every dominant species that existed on Earth changes the environment. I mean, the dominant sea organisms of a long time ago changed the Earth from a Carbon Dioxide atmosphere to an Oxygen atmosphere to give rise to creatures like us right? Hominids killed all other competing homonids until Homo Sapiens was the only one left right? Thus the big "IQ gap" in the animal kingdom? So we will prolly "destroy" the earth as we know it too eventually to give rise to like cyborgs and stuff that can adapt to not having the same planet we need now. It's natural to change the planet by our actions.

[KingYaba]

Plastic bags are good for these kinds of tasks, I agree. However, they don't degrade, so they're a nuisance in many cases.

After a severe windstorm here, I went hiking in a canyon near the city. There were dozens of the bags caught in trees and cactus, so I grabbed the ones I could get at, hiking out with a full backpack of plastic shopping bags from Target, Walmart, and various groceries stores.

With this in mind, it would be nice if companies shifted to the corn-based biodegradable bags. These would still serve your purposes, but I wouldn't have to worry about the local wildlife—coyotes and other animals eat them—choking on someone's trash.

I wouldn't mind a grocery chain using a biodegradable-type bags but those plastic bags have saved me a bit of money over the years. I rarely buy trash bags because I recycle most of what comes in and the waste I do through out fits in the those ones.

[CaoCao]

True. It's also important to approach it sensibly. Some eco-crazies like to point out every little bit of wastage and impose Catholic levels of guilt over it. The fact is, we all still waste energy in one way or another. This isn't about becoming an environmentalist saint - it's about each individual learning how to be a little more efficient, and to make more sustainable consumer/lifestyle choices...the net effect is huge even if the individual contributions are modest.

What guilt?

I garden, few things beat the taste of a meal that is made solely of things you harvested in the last two hours
Compost
Recycle
CFLs
turn down the thermostat

[Big-TDI-Guy]

As an FYI - CFLs are no where near as green as people claim. They suffer a considerably higher failure rate with the ignition setup. (extremely small electronics + low manufacturing cost = prone to failure)

If you truly want to be green - do use CFLs - however, use them correctly. While their ignition circuits do burn out quickly - CFLs that run for long duration won't suffer from this failure mode. So areas that have high on-off traffic (bathroom lights for example) I'd go either with old-school bulbs or LED. If you really weigh out the pros and cons of energy consumption - I'm not sure how good a CFL would be on shorter duration cycles. CFL uses lead, circuit boards, mercury - so if it has a short lifespan - lets say 500 hours - are the energy savings of this bulb worth it? How much energy / carbon went into manufacture? Contrast that to an incandescent, yes it does use more power - but if it's a short-duration life cycle, (500 hours) what used more raw energy? The 15 watt CFL with multiple complex components, or the 60 watt glass, steel, and tungsten variant? The incandescent bulb was likely manufactured entirely at the same factory, from the stems, to the bulb, to the phosphor and cap. The CFL on the other hand - the capacitors, resistors, transformers, printed circuit board, diodes, ICs, fluorescent tube and housing were likely manufactured at many different plants. Those components are then shipped to where final assembly occurs. I'm not sure who is greener after all of that.

As for those CFLs - when they do break - DO NOT THROW THEM IN THE TRASH - please recycle those bad boys. If you use CFLs to save the environment - throwing them away at EOL completely negates your actions.

LEDs are a great solution - but prices are still too high - they are advancing rapidly though - I can buy LEDs today that have (literally) 6 times the light output, for less money than their predecessor only one year ago. They still have the electronics and trace amounts of toxic material in them - though less than CFLs do. The real advantage to LEDs are they do not suffer from on-off cycle degradation - so over the projected life of these (usually around 50,000 hours for high-flux LEDs) the only thing you may notice is a very slight decrease in intensity. This makes them an ideal fit for areas that CFLs are not.