EU to investigate iTunes costs in UK

[bartelby]

The European commission is starting an investigation into the pricing of Apple Computer's digital music service after consumers complained that downloading tracks was more expensive in the UK than other parts of Europe.
Officials are investigating whether price differentials on iTunes between the UK and other countries such as France and Germany of up to 20% are unjust and amount to a breach of EU pricing regulations.



Link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/news/0,12597,1424957,00.html)

[Solafaa]

I wonder how this plays out, i hope apple does not get fined or something like that.

[dobbin]

This is an interesting case. As I see it there are two conflicting pieces of legislation.
One says that things for sale in the EU must be available without restriction to people from any EU member country. The other is the collection of different music licensing arrangements in different countires.

I predict that the EU price law will take precedence and that people in any EU country will eventually be able to purchase music from any EU based iTMS. I hope this means, for example, that people like me in the UK will be able to purchase music from the French store at a considerable discount.

This has already happened in other industries. For example (if I could be bothered with the extra effort) I could now buy a UK spec (right hand drive) car from a French dealer for less than I can buy it in the UK. The law doesn't actually specify that the UK prices have to come down, merely that I am allowed to shop abroad if I like. This has had the effect of reducing prices slightly in the UK car market through increased competition.

Fingers crossed for 65p songs soon :D

[dobbin]

Forgot to say - can you imagine if French record shops (e.g. their HMV equivalent on the high street) stopped British people buying CDs because they lived in the UK and only had a UK bank account? That would never be allowed!!!

edit- I'm not picking on the French, just using them as an example as our nearest neighbour...

[kettle]

So it might mean that UK users can use their iTunes account on european itunes sites if the EU enforces anything.

How many would and how many would just pay a slightly higher price?

[virividox]

this has to do with free movement of goods provisions and market acess too

oh well good luck to apple maybe they will dorp their prices

[broken_keyboard]

Are these the same geniuses that forced Microsoft to remove Media Player from Windows? What will Apple have to remove from the iTMS?

The Europeans are so lucky to have these guys looking out for them.

[geese]

What will Apple have to remove from the iTMS?


What are you talking about? Does anyone know what this sentance means? :confused: Its an EU investigation in iTunes pricing in the UK.

As the above posts said, it may mean that Apple will be forced to allow EU citizens to buy tracks from other countries iTunes stores. Or force the UK iTunes price lower to the EU price. Thats all.

[garybUK]

Ive stopped using itms because it is rather expensive, I have started using allofmp3.com its fantastic.

I tend to get my cd's from fnac when im on the continent as new EU laws allow me to take any ammount anywhere in the EU as long as it's for my personal usage.

It is daft how they dont allow us to purchase songs from the German / French stores when for almost any other store i can order across the EU.

I really do hope the EU sort of this out because 79p / £7.99 for a album is looking mightily expensive considering the exchange rate is 1.91 $ -> £ at the moment which at $0.99 would mean we can buy for 51p

[Applespider]

Ive stopped using itms because it is rather expensive, I have started using allofmp3.com its fantastic.

It's illegal. The Russian police have just recommended that its operators be charged with criminal copyright infringement.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=111971

Edit: Not to mention that I'd be very uncomfortable with my credit card details sitting on a Russian server, given the level of electronic fraud emanating from Eastern Europe/Russia

[caveman_uk]

Are these the same geniuses that forced Microsoft to remove Media Player from Windows? What will Apple have to remove from the iTMS?

The Europeans are so lucky to have these guys looking out for them.
Let's put this into a US perspective. Would it be OK for Apple to charge people in (for example) Texas $1.20 for a track but everyone else in the US £0.99 and forbid people from Texas from buying the tracks from the rest-of-the-USA store? That is in effect what Apple does in the UK. That Apple has a cross-border store within Europe that residents of several countries can use, tends to show it could (if it wanted to) allow us to buy from the other stores. Apple can charge what it wants in each store. It's allowed to do that. It's not allowed to stop you buying in another EU country.

[broken_keyboard]

Let's put this into a US perspective. Would it be OK for Apple to charge people in (for example) Texas $1.20 for a track but everyone else in the US £0.99 and forbid people from Texas from buying the tracks from the rest-of-the-USA store?

Yes, it would be fine because it is their store. They own it. But apparently that word has no meaning in the UK any more, even though it was invented there.

[edesignuk]

Yes, it would be fine because it is their store. They own it. But apparently that word has no meaning in the UK any more, even though it was invented there.
No it wouldn't. This isn't a school playground. Businesses have rules they need to abide by, they can't pick and choose what they do just because it's "theirs" :rolleyes:

[dobbin]

Yes, it would be fine because it is their store. They own it. But apparently that word has no meaning in the UK any more, even though it was invented there.

Unfortunately for some, owning a store does not mean you can ignore the law when running it. Imagine if a store owner stopped allowing Jews, or black people, or Americans from using their store, and justified it by saying its their store and they can do what they like in it. No-one would think that was right.

Its the same principle here, you have to abide by the law, and the law says you can't stop citizens of an EU country from freely buying goods from another EU country.

Although I should say that I do not claim in any way to understand the complexities of EU law, and there may well be a reason why this is allowed in this case..

[caveman_uk]

Yes, it would be fine because it is their store. They own it. But apparently that word has no meaning in the UK any more, even though it was invented there.
Clearly Apple can do no wrong in your eyes. Ownership doesn't mean you can do anything you want. Just 'cos you own a car doesn't mean you can run people over in it.

[broken_keyboard]

No it wouldn't. This isn't a school playground. Businesses have rules they need to abide by, they can't pick and choose what they do just because it's "theirs" :rolleyes:

OK, thanks for proving my point.

[broken_keyboard]

Unfortunately for some, owning a store does not mean you can ignore the law when running it. Imagine if a store owner stopped allowing Jews, or black people, or Americans from using their store, and justified it by saying its their store and they can do what they like in it. No-one would think that was right.

They can do that if they want, and decent people will think they are racists and not shop there. Owning is owning.

[edesignuk]

OK, thanks for proving my point.
:confused: What are you talking about???
They can do that if they want, and decent people will think they are racists and not shop there. Owning is owning.
WOW. You certainly do live on another planet.

[broken_keyboard]

Clearly Apple can do no wrong in your eyes. Ownership doesn't mean you can do anything you want. Just 'cos you own a car doesn't mean you can run people over in it.

That's not the same my good man. No one should be allowed to hurt anyone else. But these EU commisioners are acting like it is a privledge for Apple to be able to do business in their jurisdiction. But in reality it is a privledge for us normal people to enjoy the products that geniuses like Steve Jobs make for us.

Just think about it: the iTMS wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for Apple, and then EU Commisioners have the absolute gaul to start telling them how to run it. Shameful.

[edesignuk]

That's not the same my good man. No one should be allowed to hurt anyone else. But these EU commisioners are acting like it is a privledge for Apple to be able to do business in their jurisdiction. But in reality it is a privledge for us normal people to enjoy the products that geniuses like Steve Jobs make for us.

Just think about it: the iTMS wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for Apple, and then EU Commisioners have the absolute gaul to start telling them how to run it. Shameful.
By this twisted logic I suppose you think Microsoft should also just be left to do exactly as they please? And for that matter any major corporation?

Boy, would that be a great world (not that we're not half way there already of course :rolleyes: )

[broken_keyboard]

:confused: What are you talking about???

Because I said people from the UK don't understand what property means any more, and then low and behold a UK guy comes along and proves it by saying Apple can't choose what they do with thier own stuff.

[edesignuk]

Because I said people from the UK don't understand what property means any more, and then low and behold a UK guy comes along and proves it by saying Apple can't choose what they do with thier own stuff.
I'm honestly having trouble believing what I am reading from you.

British, American, French, German, Spanish. It makes no difference, big busniess cannot be left to do as they please simply because they produce the products. You and I have to abide by laws, and so do they.

[broken_keyboard]

By this twisted logic I suppose you think Microsoft should also just be left to do exactly as they please? And for that matter any major corporation?

Yes, as long as they don't physically hurt anyone of course. Apple creates a cool product like iTMS, and then a bunch of stuffy old politicians think they can tell them what to do with it. Seems like bullying to me.

[edesignuk]

Yes, as long as they don't physically hurt anyone of course. Apple creates a cool product like iTMS, and then a bunch of stuffy old politicians think they can tell them what to do with it. Seems like bullying to me.
It's clearly not worth my breath carrying on, so I'm stopping with this here :rolleyes:. I for one am glad on occasions like this that their is a powerful body able to stand up against big business for consumer rights.

[broken_keyboard]

I'm honestly having trouble believing what I am reading from you.

British, American, French, German, Spanish. It makes no difference, big busniess cannot be left to do as they please simply because they produce the products. You and I have to abide by laws, and so do they.

Yes, of course. But laws that say "don't steal old ladies' handbags" and "don't hurt other people." Not laws that say "you must sell this song to whom we say for what price we say. Sig heil."

By what right to one bunch of people say that to another? Because they were elected? So they got the most votes. In other words if you have the biggest gang you can push around whomever you like. Doesn't seem right to me.

[broken_keyboard]

It's clearly not worth my breath carrying on, so I'm stopping with this here

OK... I didn't want to start an argument, just wanted to express that I disagree.

[garybUK]

okay ford produced the first mass production car yet your covernment can tell them what to do with their cars i.e. speed restrictions and safety/emission requirements!

[SiliconAddict]

Are these the same geniuses that forced Microsoft to remove Media Player from Windows?


In the case of Microsoft. Yes. Yes they are. You obviously don't understand why they did what they did. I would direct you to a little known battle of Netscape vs. Microsoft as an example.
:rolleyes:

What will Apple have to remove from the iTMS?

:rolleyes: The price difference. That's what the inquiry is about.

As for Apple. If they are price fixing for the hell of it I hope they get a big fat fine. If there are legit reasons behind their price structure it will come out eventually and the matter will be resolved. People, note that EC is "looking into allegations" This doesn't mean that someone at the EC has pointed at Apple with thunder and lightening and boomed "Evil doers will be punished!!!!" They are looking into the price difference. I consider this a good thing. As Apple locks up more of the market they need to be kept from playing the Monopoly game that MS has done over the years and if you think Apple is some benevolent company I have land in West Florida to sell you. The reality is Apple would be just like MS if the tables were turned. Personally I think they would be worse then MS but that is just speculation.

[caveman_uk]

Yes, of course. But laws that say "don't steal old ladies' handbags" and "don't hurt other people." Not laws that say "you must sell this song to whom we say for what price we say. Sig heil."
They're not telling them how much they can charge. They can charge what they want. It is however true that the EU has laws that state that a EU citizen can buy pretty much what they like from any EU country he/she chooses. They can therefore buy from somewhere cheaper. I believe it's something to do with capitalism - which given your replies you probably support wholeheartedly.

By what right to one bunch of people say that to another? Because they were elected? So they got the most votes. In other words if you have the biggest gang you can push around whomever you like. Doesn't seem right to me.
Exactly that reason. They made the laws and everyone has to abide with them. Don't treat Apple like they're some hick mom'n'pop store. They're a very rich multinational and don't need myopic fawning to help them out