Ferrari unveil F2005

[iGav]

And it looks remarkably like the F2004M :eek: :rolleyes: :( :p

First impressions... that's one hell of a hooter isn't it :eek: :p and the F2004M 'chin-wing' remains, which is abit of a surprise, I was expecting a bit more of an elegant solution for the new car.

The sidepods look to have a significant undercut, so it'll be interesting to see how tightly compact the car is around the rear.

So far though, it looks to be evolutionary more than revolutionary, but I remember last years launch of the F2004 and the first impressions people had of that... then look what happened over the season. :D

More to follow...

[iGav]

Here's a better picture, it's freakishly similar to the F2004M infact.

More to follow.

[edesignuk]

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the 2005 constructors champions :D

[kettle]

Here's a better picture, it's freakishly similar to the F2004M infact.

More to follow.

Considering the success of the last one, I'm glad that it does possess more than a passing resemblance. It shows that all the money spent in wind tunnels must actually be coming to a focus. Also helps me predict that other cars based on last years technology might be a little bit closer to the top end guys which won't be a bad thing considering how dire the racing has become over the past few years.

oh yeah, I also hope the wheels drop off at every opportunity that jinx has to strike.

[iGav]

now this is a better angle... ;)

looks rather simple and elegant from that view, monster rear wing though! :D

lots of images on F1 Live... rinky dink link (http://f1.racing-live.com/en/)

proper hi-res images should be up on Ferrari's site once everything calms down a little. ;)

[virividox]

woo hooo go ferrari!!!

[AmigoMac]

This is getting hot... Looking forward for a no-boring season (I may hope) :rolleyes: , yes, it looks great and winner...

[iGav]

Having a closer tommy gander at the rear of the car, there's a couple of striking features.

Firstly look where the exhausts are :eek: not only are they fully intergrated into the aero, but they also 'exhaust' mid-way down the engine cover :eek: I'm thinking there's some interesting design and engineering gone into the layout under the bodywork judging by their location.

The 2nd dramatic feature can be seen from the rear of the car, look at how narrow it is... incredible :eek: :D

Considering the position of the exhausts, knowing that they've got a new ultra compact carbon/titanium gearbox in there and the narrowness of the rear, looks like they've shifted the engine and gearbox into an almost true mid-layout.

Certainly more impressive than the first pictures had suggested :D

[bartelby]

This is getting hot... Looking forward for a no-boring season (I may hope) :rolleyes: , yes, it looks great and winner...

Best not watch F1 then!

I was a big F1 fan, but once the other teams weren't allowed to overtake Ferraris, unless they had advanced written approval from Mr Brawn and race stewards, I stopped taking much notice of it.

MotoGP / 250's / 125's /World SuperBkie and British SuperBike are far better, more overtaking in 3 laps, of any of their races, than the entire F1 season.

MotoGP may be dominated by Rossi, but at least he's not a smug git like Schumacher!

[gwuMACaddict]

i suppose i'd drive it... :rolleyes: :D

[Lacero]

Where can i buy, and what's the gas mileage like?

[brap]

Where can i buy, and what's the gas mileage like?Not "How much"?

[AmigoMac]

Not "How much"?

Peanuts ;)

BTW, I don't care about Ferrari too much, this year I want to compare

JPM - KR (Mercedes)
RS - JT (Toyota)
MW - NH (BMW)

:)

[MOFS]

Where can i buy, and what's the gas mileage like?

About $200million. Excluding road tax, insurance and petrol, of course. :D :eek:

MPG. Average race about 90mins at 140mph - 210miles. Fuelled twice during an average race - 20 seconds at 10 litres per second - 200 litres per race. So thats 1.05miles per litre.A litre is about 2 pints - 1/4 of a gallon - so that works out at about 0.25 miles per gallon. Not something you want to take down to the shops, tho' I wished I worked for the same company as Mr Schumacher - thats some company car! :D

PS: I knew you were joking - just putting my maths into use to find out something I've always been interested in!

[anonymous161]

Actually, isn't that closer to 4 miles per gallon?

Well this is what we have all been waiting for isn't it.
At first it looks like more of the same but the devil is in the details.
And the devil is in red.
I must agree with iGav, I thought that chin wing would go away. I like that the sidepod chimneys are gone, becoming vertical winglets instead. The cooling looks to have been revised dramatically and the powertrain consolidated quite a bit. I wonder if that new carbon gearbox has the seamless shift technology that BAR are excited about?
The rear end package is very elegant, much more so that even the MP4-20.

I think it looks good, just deceptively similar to the F2004.

[iGav]

MotoGP / 250's / 125's /World SuperBkie and British SuperBike are far better, more overtaking in 3 laps, of any of their races, than the entire F1 season.

I'm not a subscriber of lots of overtaking automatically = good racing, just look at NASCAR :eek: :p But in F1's defence, lack of overtaking isn't necessarily the problem, look at Spa and Monza for example, both were crammed with close racing and a boatload of overtaking. The biggest problem is teams like Williams and McLaren unable to take the race to Ferrari because they make silly errors in the designs of their car (Walrus nose) or they waste time developing 4 cars over 2 seasons, or they fail to capitalise when they do have an advantage (mid-season '03 for example).

I've never really been a big fan of motorbike racing, I did tune into Moto GP for some races a few years ago because of all the hype it was receiving, but the races I caught were just as poor as some of the F1 races because Rossi (like Schu) just made them dull through pure excellence, superb performances but not necessarily great racing.

I did make the effort to watch Moto GP this season because of the hype of Rossi doing a Schu and going to a lesser team, he had a stunning season this year... :) but outside of Rossi and Gibernau there were times when it was as processional as any F1 race, and no amount of bigging up changes that.


MotoGP may be dominated by Rossi, but at least he's not a smug git like Schumacher!

I honestly still don't see where Schumacher gets that reputation the same with claims that he's arrogant.

But judging by some of the comments I've read that Rossi has made, I'd question the suggestion that he's not a 'smug git'. ;)

But, if anyone does have the right to be smug or arrogant, then surely it's multiple World Champions like Schumacher and Rossi ;) unlike people like Button for example... heheheh

[iGav]

JPM - KR (Mercedes)
RS - JT (Toyota)
MW - NH (BMW)




I'll go with...

Kimi
Trulli

And I'll take a risk and say Heidfeld will edge Webber (but it'll be close) ;)

How's about yourself... ?


I like that the sidepod chimneys are gone, becoming vertical winglets instead.

Well spotted that man ;) didn't notice that at all. It's interesting that there does seem to be a significant lack of cooling in the general pod and rear area, remember the F2003-GA with it's 'Shark Gills', and the F2004 with it's occasional huge chimneys, the rear of the F2005 just looks very clean, simple, uncluttered, a completely different solution to the Williams for example.


I wonder if that new carbon gearbox has the seamless shift technology that BAR are excited about?

I believe it will, Brawn has said that the biggest reason for it's relatively late arrival is the new gearbox, Ferrari have consistantly had the quickest shifts, there's a quote somewhere from Brawn or Byrne that such was they're shifting speed advantage that over the course of a race, they'd gain multiple seconds over other teams from that alone.

[anonymous161]

Ferrari seem to love that nose profile. What is this, the fourth car with that nose? Its become a signature.
I read that Aldo Costa, not Byrne, was actually in charge of this car. So this will be the first test to see the sucessors of today's Ferrari team can carry on the torch.
I like how Brawn and Byrne both called this the best Ferrari ever. Like they would tell us, "er, yeah, this one is probably better than the F399 but not quite in F2003-GA territory."


As far as 1-2 driver rivalries, if it were a moaning contest, I would take Juan over Kimi and Ralph over Trulli for sure. I hope the new Williams boys don't have that in common with their predecessors.
I'm sorry but I think Heidfeld is over rated, but BMW wanted him there so maybe they will help him out in the power department.

[bartelby]

Link (http://www.stopschuey.co.uk/f1_content.html)

[Don't panic]

link
heheheh, that's funny. they'll probably implement those next year.

the new car seems pretty slick, but they all do. i'm curious to see how it will compare to the mclarens.

It's a bit off topic, but I have one question that is bugging me about the one-engine-two-races rule (which i don't think makes much sense). How much better is an engine developed (or set up) for one race than one developed for two races? If it is significantly better, are we going to see a lot of sudden retirements at the end of one race that didn't go that well so you can start the next race with a new engine? Or use a one-race engine and go all-out with it. Since you have an advantage, you perform better. If the engine blows, you get a new one next race, if it doesn't, you most likely did better than you would have, and since it won't last the next race, you change it in the next qualif (and take the 10 slots penalty). I can see these kind of "strategy" being used by the mid-low teams, where some points here and there are better then a consistent 12-15 placement

[MOFS]

Actually, isn't that closer to 4 miles per gallon?

Um...yeah...my biggie. Hey whats that over there?[runs away quickly before anyone can catch him]

Yeah - Ferrari looks sweet - I think Ross Brawn and his team are the biggest innovators in the sport. While Renault seem to have refined their sidepods, if the smaller tail and exhausts built into the chassis work, we're gonna see a lot of Ferrari copies on the grid come July!

[AmigoMac]

I'll go with...

Kimi
Trulli

And I'll take a risk and say Heidfeld will edge Webber (but it'll be close) ;)

How's about yourself... ?




JPM (After the first 3 races), Kimi will be much better the first races I guess...

Trulli

I haven't decided about BMW ... they both have the pace, I think it will be more a Psychological game ... Webber likes that.

[bartelby]

"Contrary to widespread belief, Ferrari has decided to withhold its consent for Formula One tail-enders Minardi to race its old car in this weekend's Australian Grand Prix.

Minardi boss Paul Stoddart has maintained since last season that the delay in formulating a new rules package for 2005 would mean that his team would fail to comply with the regulations until its definitive 2005 machine came on stream at Imola next month, and eight of the remaining nine teams have said that they would be happy for him to run his 2004-spec car until that time. Ferrari, however, has refused to sign the waiver that would allow the ex-pat Australian to field two entries in his homeland this weekend.

Ironically, Ferrari is also starting the season with a version of last year's car, but has the resources to modify the F2004 in accordance with the heavily revised rules package that stipulates, amongst other things, a reduction in aerodynamics and engines now need to last for two whole race weekends."


What possible reason do they really have to do this, do they feel threatened by Minardi?
I really believe that Ferrari are trying to make F1 a one make series!
I used to think the break away series was a bad idea but now I've changed my mind.
Ferrari were the main team pushing for the GPWC (or whatever it's called) in the beginning, now they are only one of 2 teams who have not signed up. Is this due to the fact that they will now get more money than ever because they signed to the Concorde agreement until 2012?

EDIT: Is this fair and 'Sporting':

• Ferrari are guaranteed $67m (£34.8m) every year - an estimated 15-20% of their budget - before any money is distributed to the other teams.
• Ferrari have absolute veto over all changes agreed by the other teams, even if the other teams agree unanimously.
• Ferrari would get more of F1's commercial revenue if they finished last than any other team would if they won the world championship.


I hope the GPWC goes ahead without them, I can do without their whining and whinging. If I never see those egomaniacs Brawn, Schumacher and DiMontezemelo again I'll be a happy man.

The main person I feel sorry for is Rubens, I swear he's got a clause in his contract that says he's not allowed to over take Schumy.

[MOFS]

"Contrary to widespread belief, Ferrari has decided to withhold its consent for Formula One tail-enders Minardi to race its old car in this weekend's Australian Grand Prix.

Minardi boss Paul Stoddart has maintained since last season that the delay in formulating a new rules package for 2005 would mean that his team would fail to comply with the regulations until its definitive 2005 machine came on stream at Imola next month, and eight of the remaining nine teams have said that they would be happy for him to run his 2004-spec car until that time. Ferrari, however, has refused to sign the waiver that would allow the ex-pat Australian to field two entries in his homeland this weekend.

Ironically, Ferrari is also starting the season with a version of last year's car, but has the resources to modify the F2004 in accordance with the heavily revised rules package that stipulates, amongst other things, a reduction in aerodynamics and engines now need to last for two whole race weekends."


What possible reason do they really have to do this, do they feel threatened by Minardi?
I really believe that Ferrari are trying to make F1 a one make series!
I used to think the break away series was a bad idea but now I've changed my mind.
Ferrari were the main team pushing for the GPWC (or whatever it's called) in the beginning, now they are only one of 2 teams who have not signed up. Is this due to the fact that they will now get more money than ever because they signed to the Concorde agreement until 2012?

EDIT: Is this fair and 'Sporting':

• Ferrari are guaranteed $67m (£34.8m) every year - an estimated 15-20% of their budget - before any money is distributed to the other teams.
• Ferrari have absolute veto over all changes agreed by the other teams, even if the other teams agree unanimously.
• Ferrari would get more of F1's commercial revenue if they finished last than any other team would if they won the world championship.


I hope the GPWC goes ahead without them, I can do without their whining and whinging. If I never see those egomaniacs Brawn, Schumacher and DiMontezemelo again I'll be a happy man.

Well Schumacher will probably retire after this year, and Brawn wants to move back to Britain, so F1 magazine predict Brawn going to Mclaren in exchange for Kimi.

As far as the GPWC goes, one thing already would make it very difficult for the teams: Silverstone. Bernie is in charge of it, so could stop GPs being held there, and possibly even stop the teams testing there, including Williams, Mclaren, BAR, Jordan and Red Bull. They'll all sign - once they get more money from the deal and decide they're on an equal footing with Ferrari.

The main person I feel sorry for is Rubens, I swear he's got a clause in his contract that says he's not allowed to over take Schumy.

Has Ralf always had that clause in his contract? :eek:

[anonymous161]

There seems to be some dispute over whether or not Minardi will be able to race. For starters, even Paul Stoddart admits that no one has actually asked Ferrari if they are ok with Minardi using the PS04. Second, Ferrari (and the FIA) maintain that only the FIA has say over whether any car is legal to race or not and no matter what "good faith" agreement the 10 teams come to, the scrutineers on Friday have the final say for the weekend. Besides, even if the cars were determined to be illegal, Minardi could file an appeal and probably be able to race (most likely losing any points the would earn, ha!) for the first few races until the PS05 (which is up to spec) is ready at Imola.

Hate Ferrari all you want, but any team that was number one would want to be paid like they were number one and I don't think anyone agrees that "also-rans" should be entitled to the same amount of revenues as the teams that are competitive. Since each team is in business, what incentive is there to spend money on development and race if they still get the same pay check as the team that just shows up with pay drivers to run around the track?

[iGav]

Contrary to widespread belief, Ferrari has decided to withhold its consent for Formula One tail-enders Minardi to race its old car in this weekend's Australian Grand Prix.

I've been reading about this on the F1 site I frequent, some really ferocious debates going down about it.

Now, as far as I'm aware, Ferrari has NOT done any such thing. They have merely said that it's the FIA's role to decide on the matter.

Minardi will have to present their car to scrutineering, and it is up to the FIA to deem if the car is safe, if it meets the 2005 crash/safety regulations, then the teams will be consulted with regards to its complicity of the 2005 technical regulations and thus it's possible inclusion in Sundays Australian GP.

So as of the moment and as far as I'm aware Ferrari actually haven't refused anything.



Ironically, Ferrari is also starting the season with a version of last year's car, but has the resources to modify the F2004 in accordance with the heavily revised rules package that stipulates, amongst other things, a reduction in aerodynamics and engines now need to last for two whole race weekends."

And so have Jordan... yet their lack of budget hasn't effected them building a car which complies with the new regulations, even though they suffered the same issues as Minardi when Ford sold up and the future of Cosworth was in doubt.



EDIT: Is this fair and 'Sporting':

Ferrari are guaranteed $67m (£34.8m) every year - an estimated 15-20% of their budget - before any money is distributed to the other teams.

Yes it is fair (do I agree with it? nope).

Without Ferrari, the popularity of F1 would see a significant drop in commercial revenues, a substantially greater loss than the £34.8 million (no one knows exact figures set out in the Concorde Agreement) they are paid, and thus all the teams would be worse off.

Don't believe me...?

Let's not forget first and foremost that ALL of the teams AGREED that Ferrari should be given more money, because they are fully aware of what Ferrari brings to F1 and as such are worthy of special dispensation , even Ron Dennis has stated that.

Let's also not forget that the GPWC were willing to pay Ferrari a special golden handshake initial payment of $50million just to sign with the GPWC.



Ferrari have absolute veto over all changes agreed by the other teams, even if the other teams agree unanimously.

This is inaccurate. Ferrari do not have an absolute veto at all. Infact all teams have the right to veto changes they do not agree with. Any changes have to be unanimously agreed by ALL of the teams (unless they're in the name of safety in which case the FIA can act) and that is the only fair way.



Ferrari would get more of F1's commercial revenue if they finished last than any other team would if they won the world championship.

But let's not forget that this is a none issue with the teams, all the teams have agreed that Ferrari should be given special dispensation because of what they bring to F1.

Funny how this was never an issue when Ferrari were not winning any championships between 1983 and 1999 is it?



I hope the GPWC goes ahead without them

I don't, we either have one or the other.... otherwise both will eventually suffer like CART and IRL have.

The only thing that worries me about the GPWC is that it'll be controlled by car companies, now is it just me, or is it more than a little worrying considering that in the past many of the large car companies have not committed to F1 for a significant period of time? even now BMW and Renault are questioning their participation in the sport.

With the likes of Ford, Renault, BMW, Porsche, DC/Mercedes, Honda all pulling out at one time or another, only to come back, and then leave again. How will that affect the stability of the GPWC at a governing level?

For example BMW decide to pull out of racing, will they still have a voice in the controlling body?
If so is that fair?
If not will they be allowed to return and resume their place on the board?
How will major rule changes be implemented?
Will it be like it is at the moment where all teams have to unanimously agree on changes?
Or will it be with the majority?



II can do without their whining and whinging.

But isn't it Paul Stoddart doing the whinging? ;)



If I never see those egomaniacs Brawn, Schumacher and DiMontezemelo again I'll be a happy man.

I still don't understand why the hatred of Brawn, Schumacher, Di-Monte... and Ferrari in general, what are they doing that is so wrong?

All they're doing is dominating their sport... nothing more and nothing less. It'll come to an end... it always does.

But what they're achieving together is incredible, never before seen in the history of the sport (any sport?) and for that they should be celebrated and lauded for their performance, not derided for it.



The main person I feel sorry for is Rubens, I swear he's got a clause in his contract that says he's not allowed to over take Schumy.

Do you really believe that? if so why?


Anyway as for my take on the whole thing, IMHO if Minardi cannot build a car which conforms to the regulations then they should not be allowed to race until they can.

What makes Minardi so special anyhow? F1 has lost far, far greater teams in the past.

Another example, my football team (Coventry, I know, I know... but I was born there) are currently fighting relegation, they don't have the budget, nor the squad at the moment.

So, would it be fair that they should be allowed to field 2 extra players to help make them more competitive? or should they be allowed to play with a smaller goal to make it more difficult for the opposition team to score? Of course it wouldn't... and I don't see why it should for Minardi either.

Anyway... I think we'll see the Minardi's on the grid come Sunday. ;)

[anonymous161]

If Stoddart were to put half of the energy he uses to fuss into fund raising, Minardi could be a top five team.
I have a friend who lives in Dallas. He knows some of the beggars in his neighborhood (downtown) and a few of them live in an old hotel nearby. One of them even owns a car. They go out and stand on the corners, wash windows or just panhandle when the cars stop at the traffic lights and actually make a decent income at it by playing upon people's sympathy. That is kind of how I feel about Stoddart, homeless beard and all. He just seems to enjoy playing the rich team, poor team game. I just wish they would race.

[bartelby]

I still don't understand why the hatred of Brawn, Schumacher, Di-Monte... and Ferrari in general, what are they doing that is so wrong?

All they're doing is dominating their sport... nothing more and nothing less. It'll come to an end... it always does.

But what they're achieving together is incredible, never before seen in the history of the sport (any sport?) and for that they should be celebrated and lauded for their performance, not derided for it.

Another example, my football team (Coventry, I know, I know... but I was born there) are currently fighting relegation, they don't have the budget, nor the squad at the moment.

Anyway... I think we'll see the Minardi's on the grid come Sunday. ;)

I hate them but at the same time I do respect that they are the best Team.
I think it's the way they exploit their position to gain any advantage possible, even if this means removing a team that wouldn't even challenge them...ever.

I also think it's because I always support the underdog, it's no fun for me if you can pretty much guarentee your team will win.

I can't stand football, but when people insist on me giving a team I always say Cov City, I was born there too!

I really hope Minardi are on the grid on the weekend.

[iGav]

I think it's the way they exploit their position to gain any advantage possible, even if this means removing a team that wouldn't even challenge them...ever.

All the teams have at one time or another exploited the rules for their own advantage, Ferrari really are not unique in that respect.

I can see why Ferrari are taking their current stance, Stoddart has basically spent the last 12 months slagging Ferrari, FIA and anyone else who rubs him up the wrong way, and I think Ferrari are just busting Stoddarts balls more than anything else over this.

But you could bet your life Ron Dennis, or Frank Williams would be doing exactly the same... infact they already have, remember when Arrows went under and Minardi felt that they should receive all of Arrows share of the prize fund, yet Ron and Frank felt that the Arrows money should have been distributed amongst all the teams, it's just the way F1 works and that's what makes this whole '9 Teams Testing Agreement' such a farce.

I personally still believe that Minardi should not be allowed to run their cars if they do not conform to all of 2005 specs, if a team like Jordan (who up until there recent take over had a budget similar to that of Minardi) can develop a car that conforms to all regulations why can't Minardi?

Interestingly Minardi have been running a 2005 spec car in winter testing, so I understand the biggest issue of non-compliance is the rear diffuser, but again Jordan have done a patch up job so that they conform, I'm sure Minardi could have done the same.

The engine issue that Stoddart cites is crap, they can run last years engine, sure it won't last 2 race weekends, but Minardi always start from the back of the grid anyway so in some respects that rule could benefit them from having a fresh engine every weekend.

What really irks though is that teams like Lotus and Tyrell struggled to the very end... with dignity. I just fail to see what makes Minardi more special and worthy of such treatment?


I can't stand football, but when people insist on me giving a team I always say Cov City, I was born there too!

I don't follow football religiously at all, that's pretty much how I feel about them, I was born there and they're my home team, always will be.

However... stuff the football team, we've got the best Ice Hockey team in the country! :D


I really hope Minardi are on the grid on the weekend.

I was just about to say that I'm expecting to see them line up come Sunday after reading today that the FIA had approved their cars in scrutineering, however it would seem that Ferrari aren't actually the only team that might not be wanting to give approval.

Makes you wonder how many teams do or don't actually support Stoddart.


But Red Bull team boss Christian Horner said: "I sympathise with their position but rules are rules."

He added: "They are there for a reason and we all have to abide by them.

"My position and that of Red Bull is that nothing would be more frustrating for us in a debut race to finish ninth with a Minardi ahead of us and a point taken from us."

I have to agree with him...

rinky dink link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/4310573.stm)

[bartelby]

However... stuff the football team, we've got the best Ice Hockey team in the country! :D

Ice Hockey Team?...(insert web search) ...Coventry Blaze, Ah! Good are they then?


On the Ferrari thing, I just don't like them and no amount of saying 'other teams are just the same' is going to make me change my mind.

I agree about the engine issue, as Minardi regularly used their back of the grid position to make changes to their cars or repair stuff.

If we're arguing before the season even starts just wait for the first overlooked Ferrari rule infringement!! (somewhere around lap 23 on Sunday) ;)

[iGav]

Ice Hockey Team?...(insert web search) ...Coventry Blaze, Ah! Good are they then?

They are indeed... :)


On the Ferrari thing, I just don't like them and no amount of saying 'other teams are just the same' is going to make me change my mind.

heheh, I feel the same way about McLaren, that Ron Dennis gets right on my t*ts.


I agree about the engine issue, as Minardi regularly used their back of the grid position to make changes to their cars or repair stuff.


It's Stoddart speaking sh*t again. :rolleyes: :p

Mind you have you seen the BHP ratings for the new Cosworth engine, 910BHP! :eek:


If we're arguing before the season even starts just wait for the first overlooked Ferrari rule infringement!! (somewhere around lap 23 on Sunday) ;)

Not arguing... debating ;)

I'll be putting up an Australian GP thread a little later. :)

[MOFS]

I have to agree with him...
rinky dink link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/4310573.stm)

:eek: I thought Coulthard said Red Bull might do well - not get overtaken by the Minardis!

Interesting fact last year: When Marc Gene raced last year for Williams, 8/20 (40%) of the drivers were driving/ used to drive for Mnardi! :o

Baumgartner
Bruni
Trulli
Alonso
Webber
Gene
Ummm...Fisichella?
Dunno... : :confused:

We need Minardi. The only excuse Minardi have is that they always get their sponsors at the last minute - even later than Jordan - which means that they have less time to develop their car before March.

[bartelby]

Baumgartner
Bruni
Trulli
Alonso
Webber
Gene
Ummm...Fisichella?
Dunno... : :confused:

We need Minardi. The only excuse Minardi have is that they always get their sponsors at the last minute - even later than Jordan - which means that they have less time to develop their car before March.

(Drivers for the last 10 seasons:
2005 - Friesacher - Albers
2004 - Bruni – Baumgartner
2003 - Verstappen - Wilson – Kiesa
2002 - Webber – Yoong
2001 - Alonso - Marques – Yoong
2000 - Gené – Mazzacane
1999 - Badoer - Gené – Sarazin
1998 - Nakano – Tuero
1997 - Katayama - Trulli – Marques
1996 - Lavaggi - Fisichella - Lamy – Marques
1995 - Martini - Badoer -Lamy)


Exactly!
Most of these drivers wouldn't be in F1 if it wasn't for Minardi giving them a chance!
Ferrari wouldn't take a chance with a driver...
Oh, I forgot they had Irvine for a while...

[iGav]

(Drivers for the last 10 seasons:
2005 - Friesacher - Albers
2004 - Bruni – Baumgartner
2003 - Verstappen - Wilson – Kiesa
2002 - Webber – Yoong
2001 - Alonso - Marques – Yoong
2000 - Gené – Mazzacane
1999 - Badoer - Gené – Sarazin
1998 - Nakano – Tuero
1997 - Katayama - Trulli – Marques
1996 - Lavaggi - Fisichella - Lamy – Marques
1995 - Martini - Badoer -Lamy)


Exactly!
Most of these drivers wouldn't be in F1 if it wasn't for Minardi giving them a chance!

And out of that list... I'd argue that only 4-6 of them are good enough to be in F1... pay-per-drive is so not good, F1 should be about the best... not who can afford to pay for a drive.

I don't have anything against Minardi, but Stoddart is a tit of the highest order.

Again, I still do not understand what makes Minardi worthy of special dispensation, when greater teams have gone under in the past, Ken Tyrrell was 1000x the man Stoddart is, enthusiast to the core but he never lowered himself to the levels that Stoddart has done.

Whilst I totally agree that F1 needs Minardi, F1 doesn't need a Minardi run by Stoddart... hopefully they'll be taken over by someone with the funds to actually go racing. Legally.

Anyway... interesting tidbit in Business F1 magazine regarding estimates of team budgets.

Toyota 298.7mil USD
McLaren 293.85
Ferrari 287.9
Renault 274.60
Williams 262.45
BAR 238.65
Red Bull 176.35
Sauber 98.38
Jordan 51.35
Minardi 46.60

So on top of the fact that Ferrari don't actually test the most miles in a season, now the myth about Ferrari having the largest budget looks shakey as well. ;) :D

[Don't panic]

FIA decided not to allow them to run (and ferrari has nothing to do with it, despite what some people think) and i think it's the right thing.

I find Stoddart's whining despicable and extremely unfair towards the smaller teams.
If jordan or sauber could scrap together a car, so should minardi.

I usually root for the underdog, but not when the underdog leverages that simpathy to gain unfair advantages.
link (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000081&sid=agxdMkWQTr1U&refer=australia)

[Don't panic]

(Drivers for the last 10 seasons:
2005 - Friesacher - Albers
2004 - Bruni – Baumgartner
2003 - Verstappen - Wilson – Kiesa
2002 - Webber – Yoong
2001 - Alonso - Marques – Yoong
2000 - Gené – Mazzacane
1999 - Badoer - Gené – Sarazin
1998 - Nakano – Tuero
1997 - Katayama - Trulli – Marques
1996 - Lavaggi - Fisichella - Lamy – Marques
1995 - Martini - Badoer -Lamy)


Exactly!
Most of these drivers wouldn't be in F1 if it wasn't for Minardi giving them a chance!
Ferrari wouldn't take a chance with a driver...
Oh, I forgot they had Irvine for a while...

mmmmhh.., not an exactly an impressive list of drivers (ok, with a couple exceptions).
and you ARE forgetting Gilles. one of the greatest ever

[iGav]

Just been reading this on an F1 site I frequent... offers a glimpse of the new technology and thinking behind the new F2005.

Certainly sounds very impressive...

Active Steering
ABS effects
Variable Camber System

etc etc...


According to a Ferrari insider, the F2005 will look very different from the launch, about the 50% will be changed.
Costa said they worked a lot to improve the rigidity, this was achieved by attaching the engine and the gearbox with a sort of carbon structure: as said, improved rigidity despite the further miniaturization of the gearbox.

The gearbox isn't a seamless, because Ferrari thinks the gearbox most important function is from an aero point of view and not mechanical one; in fact it's very small (according to rumours it has the capacity of a bottle of 2 litres), giving advantages in the work for diffuser efficiency (as quasi celestial posted), but its neverthless very fast in upshift (its rumoured it happens in 12 milliseconds).

A new front wing and other changes are planned, Charlie Whiting was asked to go to Maranello to see if some of these aero solutions are legal ( i wonder what these solutions are)

New steering, it is rumoured it will work as the "active steering" of BMW production cars; with the same angle, the car will be able to turn the 50 km/h Loews corner of Monaco and the 250 km/h Parabolica of Monza; this will put less stresses on the front tyres in high speed corners and more agility in the slow ones.

Engine: the 055 has the same power of last year at more or less 19000 rpm; its injection pressure was raised to 100 bar to achieve better torque at low RPMs.

According to Sergio Rinland (IIRC ex Benetton and Sauber), the new car is designed to lower drag, the rear end is the narrowest seen so far in F1; the aero grip was sacrificed for the mechanical one. The reduction in drag mated with the powerful 055 should put the F2005 at the top in straight line speeds everywhere.

The braking system, developed with Brembo, is designed to avoid to block the tyres under braking; it's rumoured that Ferrari might have studied it in a way to simulate the ABS effects.

No variable camber system in the true sense of the word; according to Brawn, they can work on the suspensions geometries to make it variable, but the true system is illegal (he refers to Michelin's OPT); it's said that only Bar (with the decisive help from Honda) and Ferrari have a system which works to change the camber in the individual curves, by using, as i said, particular suspensions geometries.

It's a very big jump despite appearances. The car incorporates some solutions that Ferrari has been working on for some years and have decided the time is now right. Apparently Rory Byrne has been studying a new way of handling the air flow at the back of the car for some years and has taken advantage of the new regulations stipulating a smaller diffuser and the new revised gearbox, exhaust/cooling solution the engineers have developed to apply these theories.

At the heart of these advances is a brand new gearbox casing which Byrne describes as "...the biggest step forward we have ever taken in this area". It has allowed innovative aero and cooling solutions at the rear of the car. The car is designed integrally to treat its tyres well.

Some words from Aldo Costa: "The areas which gave us the most thought were the gearbox and infact the whole rear end of the car, from there we garnered the most satisfaction. For this reason we could not incorporate anything more than a revised rear and front wing onto the F2004M from the 656 (F2005) projact. The two projects were so different that many of the solutions could not be transferred.

Bring it on... :D

[Don't panic]

so do you think the tests badoer and gene are runninng are purposedly underperforming? They don't look that fast so far.

On an off-topic tangent, but I didn't want to start yet another F1 thread:

It occurred to me that it would be possible to develop rear-end diffusers/wings that purposedly increase the turbolence behind and limit the ability of other cars to overtake.
Is this being done? Is it legal (although I guess if it wasn't it would be unenforceable)? would it be fair?

[iGav]

so do you think the tests badoer and gene are runninng are purposedly underperforming? They don't look that fast so far.

They've just being carrying out installation and system checks so far, not full bore performance runs so don't read too much into the times. ;)

Badoer has stated that the performance tests begin this week at Fiorano, but until Schumacher and Barrichello get behind the wheel we won't know exactly how fast the car is, but I'm expecting it to be significantly faster than the F2004M.


It occurred to me that it would be possible to develop rear-end diffusers/wings that purposedly increase the turbolence behind and limit the ability of other cars to overtake.

Is this being done? Is it legal (although I guess if it wasn't it would be unenforceable)? would it be fair?

I seem to remember reading, or maybe hearing from an F1 commentator that the Ferrari is the most aero efficient car through the air, but that it also causes a significant amount of aero disruption and turbulence behind it and that this restricts the following car being able to follow it too closely through corners.

[Don't panic]

Badoer has stated that the performance tests begin this week at Fiorano, but until Schumacher and Barrichello get behind the wheel we won't know exactly how fast the car is, but I'm expecting it to be significantly faster than the F2004M.


apparently barrichello tested the car today (but i couldn't find the timing), schumi will tomorrow and then they will decide for barhein.
I think they should go anyway. At this point it can't be much worse than sepang, and even if they are not fully ready, at least they will be able to use it at imola.

[Lord Blackadder]

apparently barrichello tested the car today (but i couldn't find the timing), schumi will tomorrow and then they will decide for barhein.
I think they should go anyway. At this point it can't be much worse than sepang, and even if they are not fully ready, at least they will be able to use it at imola.

I suspect that they will be running the car as soon as is humanly possible, and do the rest of the development work as the race.

It's amazing how much the new rules killed what was once a nearly invincible car, the F2004.

[Don't panic]

It's amazing how much the new rules killed what was once a nearly invincible car, the F2004.

that was the main reason for the changes, so i guess it worked out well.
but I think ferrari should have pushed the development of the new car earlier, instead they overestimated the F2004 and underestimate the other teams.
thee gap is very significant, and for what i read, the f2005 should make them more competitive, but I doubt it will put them above the renaults. a lot will depend on bridgestones.

it could be an interesting championship

[iGav]

apparently barrichello tested the car today (but i couldn't find the timing)

Barrichello did a 1 minute 21.435 of Mugello in the F2005 after completing 95 laps.

From Rubens...

I am very happy with how it felt to drive the F2005. It is definitely quicker than the F2004 M and represents a step forward in every area.


I think they should go anyway. At this point it can't be much worse than sepang, and even if they are not fully ready, at least they will be able to use it at imola.

They should unleash it as soon as possible, from what I've been reading the car sounds bulliet proof having encountered no major problems at all in testing, and it seems capable of knocking out a couple of hundred laps with no problems whatsoever.

If they don't release it at Bahrain then there's no point releasing it until Spain because Imola would be written off immeadiately with the loss of 10 grid places, and if Renault win both Bahrain and San Marino the season is over.

Ferrari have nothing to lose.


It's amazing how much the new rules killed what was once a nearly invincible car, the F2004.

I think Malaysia had less to do with the car and more to do with the tyres. Bridgestone haven't been especially stronge at Sepang for years, even last year Montoya was capable of matching Schumacher and look how that season turned out.

But I think that since 2003 (2002 for qualifying) Michelin have been the tyre to have, even though Ferrari dominated last year, I think that was more to do with the likes of Williams and McLaren messing up and making it too easy for them.

After switching to Michelin both BAR and Sauber have both stated that the Michelin is by far and away the superior rubber to have, and I think this season we're seeing not only the other teams getting their acts together, but also the benefit of having 7 teams (at least 3 of which test more than Ferrari) developing the tyres, no matter how you look at it... Michelin have 7x the data gathering capacity, and that is something that Ferrari and Bridgestone simply cannot compete with.

Bridgestone have though, come out today and taken the responsibility for the Sepang performance (or lack of) but have also revealed that they have developed a new family of tyres specifically for the F2005, so fingers crossed they'll improve upon the current one lap performance of the Bridgestones, although I doubt that they'll get anywhere near the one lap performance advantage that the Michelin have held since 2002.

Rinky dink link (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=32364)

[Lord Blackadder]

This seems to favor those who are calling for a spec tire, wouldn't you think?

Ferrari is not going to roll over and die, and though Renault is looking very strong this isn't the first time Ferrari has looked a little off, only to come back with a vengance - although its the deepest hole they've been in for some time.

[iGav]

This seems to favor those who are calling for a spec tire, wouldn't you think?

Yep...

Ever since it became a 2 tyre formula in the mid/late '90's (ignoring Pirelli's ill fated '85-'87 and '89-'91) we've seen races and even seasons ruined by one tyre co. having a massive advantage over the other.

They should bring back Goodyear, who will make 3 types of compound, Soft, Medium, Hard. These compounds will remain consistant throughout the season and will not change. They should also allow the mixing of compounds like they did back in the '80's. :D

[Lord Blackadder]

Yep...

Ever since it became a 2 tyre formula in the mid/late '90's (ignoring Pirelli's ill fated '85-'87 and '89-'91) we've seen races and even seasons ruined by one tyre co. having a massive advantage over the other.

They should bring back Goodyear, who will make 3 types of compound, Soft, Medium, Hard. These compounds will remain consistant throughout the season and will not change. They should also allow the mixing of compounds like they did back in the '80's. :D

That would really make 2006 a "good year", since one tire company would be supplying both NASCAR and F1. Talk about publicity!

[Don't panic]

Yep...

Ever since it became a 2 tyre formula in the mid/late '90's (ignoring Pirelli's ill fated '85-'87 and '89-'91) we've seen races and even seasons ruined by one tyre co. having a massive advantage over the other.

They should bring back Goodyear, who will make 3 types of compound, Soft, Medium, Hard. These compounds will remain consistant throughout the season and will not change. They should also allow the mixing of compounds like they did back in the '80's. :D

i'm not sure about goodyear, but definitively one tyre maker seems so obvious that it should be a no-brainer.
I think the problem could be standing contracts, they might be bullet-proof.
A change of rules from FIA in that direction would allow this. I suppose it would have to be an open contract bidding directly between FIA (or whomever) and the tyre companies. I'm sure Ferrari, other than a facade support of Bridgestones, would be ready to switch to Michelins in a second.

but then of course stoddart and all the anti-ferrari whiners would come out saying that this once again favors maranello... :rolleyes: :)

[anonymous161]

Any control tire should differ in size and composition from current offerings, possibly without grooves (a true slick, imagination that), so that everyone, regardless of who's tires they used to use, would have no advantage.

[iGav]

i'm not sure about goodyear,

They'd be the obvious choice. They have extensive experience of F1 and have supplied all of the main teams (with the exception of the newer teams) so that diminishes the possibilities of accusations of favouritism.

I can't imagine that the likes of McLaren and Williams would except Bridgestone as a sole supplier (can you imagine the excuses if Ferrari wiped the floor with them all) and I'm not certain we'd see an easy transistion by Ferrari to Michelin.

Bringing back Goodyear would solve that in an instant, and would level the playing field.

[mad jew]

The biggest problem with tyres at the moment isn't who supplies them but rather the fact they have to keep the same set all race. In the name of safety, the teams should at least have been weaned off the tyres so they can better develop there cars to withstand a serious degradation of grip by the end of the race.

[840quadra]

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the 2005 constructors champions :D

:D

I still wear my old (poor team nice colors) Orange Arrows hat with pride!

[840quadra]

here is a picture of the older (slower) model I took at the Detroit Auto Show. I am a freelance journalist, so I was able to attend the Press days


http://www.neuwerks.com/albums/album12/IMG_3759.jpg

http://www.neuwerks.com/albums/album12/IMG_3767.jpg

http://www.neuwerks.com/albums/album12/IMG_3765.jpg


And a shameless plug for my website ;) Neuwerks (http://www.neuwerks.com)