Nintendo Revolution Ideas

[kuyu]

Compared with Sony's and Microsoft's next-gen consoles, almost nothing is known about Nintendo's console, code-named "Revolution". The purpose of this thread is not to post fanboy comments or to attack one company or another. Rather, the idea here to start a discussion regarding the possiblities of the Nintendo Revolution (NR).

My predictions:
1) The NR will feature gyroscopic controllers. These will allow us to control the on screen action with our hands, arms, and fingers instead of just with fingers alone.

2) The NR will feature very good voice recognition so that we can control the games with our voices as well.

3) NR games will be far less "objective" driven than todays games. NR titles will focus on creativity and open-ended fun rather than movie like experiences. Think legos. This principle applied in a 3D virtual world could provide a very entertaining experience.

4) The NR will hook to a TV set, but nintendo will eventually sell a VR headset.

I would bet that nintendo has a title in development that acts as sort of a blank canvas in which the player creates a game world as they see fit. Imagine being able to literally build, shape, manipulate, and interact with a world of your own creation. Like GTA, except you designed it. You could set your own goals, and share your creation with others.

The possibilities are truly endless with a game like this. Build your world, Change your world, Share your world.

[Symtex]

Compared with Sony's and Microsoft's next-gen consoles, almost nothing is known about Nintendo's console, code-named "Revolution". The purpose of this thread is not to post fanboy comments or to attack one company or another. Rather, the idea here to start a discussion regarding the possiblities of the Nintendo Revolution (NR).

My predictions:
1) The NR will feature gyroscopic controllers. These will allow us to control the on screen action with our hands, arms, and fingers instead of just with fingers alone.

2) The NR will feature very good voice recognition so that we can control the games with our voices as well.

3) NR games will be far less "objective" driven than todays games. NR titles will focus on creativity and open-ended fun rather than movie like experiences. Think legos. This principle applied in a 3D virtual world could provide a very entertaining experience.

4) The NR will hook to a TV set, but nintendo will eventually sell a VR headset.

I would bet that nintendo has a title in development that acts as sort of a blank canvas in which the player creates a game world as they see fit. Imagine being able to literally build, shape, manipulate, and interact with a world of your own creation. Like GTA, except you designed it. You could set your own goals, and share your creation with others.

The possibilities are truly endless with a game like this. Build your world, Change your world, Share your world.

Nintendo as lost is touch with reality. They are going to the road that will bring them to failture. I'm sad to see a company that was once the king of video games going down like this. It reminds me of Sega. We all know what happen to them.

Nintendo needs some major changes at the direction level. Just look at the failure of N64 and Gamecube regardless of having good and innovative ideas. The demography of gamers has evoluate but not Nintendo. You can no longer makes simple game, slap the mario name on it and expect to sell like it did before.

I think only Nintendo avid follower will get into NR. The rest will turn to Sony and Microsoft. The success of Sony playstation was the use of standard media (CD and DVD). If Playstation didn't have a free DVD player, I don't think they would of had the same sucess. The gaming industry is into convergence of media. Sony and Microsoft are following that route. Console is not only for games but act as entry of Multipurpose Multimedia appliance into people's living room.

Nintendo should stick to handheld and software market which I think it's a better media for them.

[cubist]

I think the president of Nintendo is a smart man. He recently opined that games had gotten too complex and not very much fun to play. Another website I read said that most games are designed for "obsessive gaming" rather than "part-time gaming". These points seem to me to be related.

My stepson recently purchased NFS Hot Pursuit 2 and NFS Underground. Neither of us have been able to get beyond the first level of either of these games. They are extremely difficult and would appear to require the commitment of a great many hours. I think this game design is wrongheaded; in fact, locked tracks and cars may actually constitute consumer fraud (the package promises something which the game does not deliver).

Games should be easy and fun for people to just pick up and play, for example, when people come over. Crash Team Racing and Mario Carts, for example. They don't have any locked cars or tracks.

DVD players are cheap now. That feature may have helped sell PS2s, but it's not of much value now. The PSP doesn't use regular disks either; I'd imagine the PS3 will be more like the PSP than the PS2.

OK, so where does this get us re the Revolution?

I like Kuyu's idea that the games could be more "user-developable" than most are now. Racing games should allow us to design tracks and customize our cars, to a greater degree than at present; they should allow exploration. Basically Kuyu describes something which is more like The Sims or an MMORPG than the piles of copycat FPS games which are available for Xbox and PS2.

Gyro controllers have been out for a while, so that's a possibility. The machine could include a cheap camera for customizing games with your picture. It could also include an online connection for multiplayer gaming, IM, email and web browsing. I hope it wouldn't be tied to a ripoff service. Also, the DS could be used as a client to the machine somehow.

[Drgnhntr]

My predictions:
1) The NR will feature gyroscopic controllers. These will allow us to control the on screen action with our hands, arms, and fingers instead of just with fingers alone.

2) The NR will feature very good voice recognition so that we can control the games with our voices as well.

3) NR games will be far less "objective" driven than todays games. NR titles will focus on creativity and open-ended fun rather than movie like experiences. Think legos. This principle applied in a 3D virtual world could provide a very entertaining experience.

4) The NR will hook to a TV set, but nintendo will eventually sell a VR headset.

I would bet that nintendo has a title in development that acts as sort of a blank canvas in which the player creates a game world as they see fit. Imagine being able to literally build, shape, manipulate, and interact with a world of your own creation. Like GTA, except you designed it. You could set your own goals, and share your creation with others.

The possibilities are truly endless with a game like this. Build your world, Change your world, Share your world.

There may also be a touch screen feature within the controller as well. I think that the microphone (with mario party) and the DS are a few examples of nintendo testing hardware that they may or will include with the revolution.

I am not sure that Nintendo will do a VR headset, at least in the way that we would think of a head set. I think nintendo made a statement that they were going to be revolutionary, but not too revolutionary that it would alienate players. I think diverging from the TV would be a little too alienating. I think if anything they may include a pair of glasses that would flash additional info to you while you watch the main tv. Take metroid prime for example, imagine on the tv is the world and you yourself wear a pair of googles or glasses that display your weapons, health and dialog. Basically immersing yourself into the game, without getting too far from what people are comfortable with. I feel this is similar to what they are trying to do with the DS, showing you the same game from two different perspectives or views.

I also wanted to add to your description of building your own world. I think Nintendo missed a critical opportunity by not including a HD on the gamecube, customization. I believe revolution will include one and I think it will lead to many different possibilities. You mentioned GTA, but I thought of animal crossing. How much better would that game have been with the addition of a hard drive. Instead of living in a town, make the whole thing customizable. Want to rip your house down and move it near the coast? Go ahead. Want to travel or open your town to tourists (other live players)? Hop on the train and visit any one of the thousand other animal crossing towns on nintendo's online world. Basically make the game an MMORPG/SIM game.

Overall I don't know if there will be anothing greatly revolutionary in the hardware itself but the way the games will engage players. I am much more excited about the possibilities for nintendo than just playing another FPS or RPG with only better graphics.

[PixelFactory]

DVD players are cheap now. That feature may have helped sell PS2s, but it's not of much value now. The PSP doesn't use regular disks either; I'd imagine the PS3 will be more like the PSP than the PS2.

The PS3 will have the bluray drive which makes an inroad for HD-DVD. I think it will be more like the PS2 in this feature.

AS far as Revolution, Maybe not a VR headset but a set of 3d glasses that work. Not the old fashioned red and blue type but somthing that can use flickering LEDs that are in sync with the tv so simulate 3d. Much more engrossing if I can actually see depth in the screen. We are still really only looking at 2d images right now.

[johnnyjibbs]

I would definitely expect Revolution to have some very innovative features. I will admit that these are tough times for Nintendo, and not all their games have been absolute first class, but at least they're producing exciting different games. And this is what keeps me with Nintendo. I know the PS3 will be a decent gaming machine, but there's nothing much that will take my fancy, just like the current PS2 (and Xbox). I'm not a fan of movie licences or big name sequels, nor generic FPS games, however good the graphics or the video sequences are.

Hopefully, Revolution will have some innovative control methods and other features, but while remaining fairly mainstream. I think Nintendo has achieved this balance with the Nintendo DS, which is on my wish list (not yet released in Europe), unlike the PSP.

I don't think the DVD player issue or standard media will matter much. Cartridges were a mistake for the N64, but I don't think the GameCube has suffered because of its media choice.

I'm looking forward to the surprises Nintendo has in store with Revolution and I don't think any of us will be able to predict what they have up their sleeves. It's funny, Nintendo is so much like Apple - both innovative and stubborn companies that make bad mistakes but have a loyal fan base and are somehow always destined to be at the niche end of the market... (not always that way for Nintendo of course ;) )

[Drgnhntr]

It was my impression that the mini dvd disc media on gamecube was a success from a business stand point by reducing piracy. If revolution takes up either bluray or HD-DVD, they can keep their propriety disks without losing too much capacity. I think it would be a mistake for nintendo to use DVD disks when sony has announced they will use BluRay. They need to avoid being labeled the lesser system on launch no matter how innovative their machine is.

[Dagless]

quite a few big messages here, more than my mind can take!

well not really but i am in a rush.

the Nintendo Revolution will be amazing, as we have seen recently with the DS (EVERY nintendo console/handheld has something new to interact or control the game), the revolution will have a multitude of playing input methods.

one of the popular rumors is the DS link-up. another wild rumor is that the GBA2 (yea its funny, PSP fanboys say that Nintendo will die because of the DS, but in actual fact its only a spin-off. like Frasier was to Cheers. DS+Gameboy=seperate) will have a gyroscope feature. allowing for no 'look buttons', for the player to just move the DS around to look and use a D-Pad to walk and a few buttons to shoot.

whereas Sony just put in faster and bigger hardware :rolleyes: instead of trying to innovate gameplay. the PS2 is just a glorified PS2.

not saying nintendo are blameless; Virtual Boy?

but the revloution will have some spectacular new features. wireless controllers is a certainty. but thats not innovation, just evolution.

[GFLPraxis]

The PS3 will have the bluray drive which makes an inroad for HD-DVD. I think it will be more like the PS2 in this feature.

AS far as Revolution, Maybe not a VR headset but a set of 3d glasses that work. Not the old fashioned red and blue type but somthing that can use flickering LEDs that are in sync with the tv so simulate 3d. Much more engrossing if I can actually see depth in the screen. We are still really only looking at 2d images right now.

HD-DVD and Blu-ray are the two competing standards. Sony owns Blu-ray, MS is going for HD-DVD. I believe Nintendo will use HD-DVD as well.

[Symtex]

I do not agree about Nintendo Revolution beeing "All That". Don't you realize that maybe the mini disk did reduce piracy but also harm the company. What is the most popular O/S in the world ? Windows. Why ? because it's the most pirate one. The success of microsoft is based of piracy.

Nintendo is on a downfall. It will again finish dead last in the console war just like it did this generation. Nintendo should stick at what they do best : Developping software. Nintendo is surviving because of his handheld market. They lost almost all 3rd party support and will continue to do so. The age group for nintendo will be 6-14 years.

I once had a Famicon (nintendo 8 bits) and it was the best. Duck Hunt / Mario Bros / Contra. Who haven't played thoses classics. Since N64, when they decided not to follow Sony advice and used CD instead of cartridge, They went dowhill. The gaming industry has change and Nintendo is not following the right path.

Until I see extreme changes in Nintendo philosophy, I will no longer supported their product.

[GFLPraxis]

Compared with Sony's and Microsoft's next-gen consoles, almost nothing is known about Nintendo's console, code-named "Revolution". The purpose of this thread is not to post fanboy comments or to attack one company or another. Rather, the idea here to start a discussion regarding the possiblities of the Nintendo Revolution (NR).

My predictions:
1) The NR will feature gyroscopic controllers. These will allow us to control the on screen action with our hands, arms, and fingers instead of just with fingers alone.

2) The NR will feature very good voice recognition so that we can control the games with our voices as well.

3) NR games will be far less "objective" driven than todays games. NR titles will focus on creativity and open-ended fun rather than movie like experiences. Think legos. This principle applied in a 3D virtual world could provide a very entertaining experience.

4) The NR will hook to a TV set, but nintendo will eventually sell a VR headset.

I would bet that nintendo has a title in development that acts as sort of a blank canvas in which the player creates a game world as they see fit. Imagine being able to literally build, shape, manipulate, and interact with a world of your own creation. Like GTA, except you designed it. You could set your own goals, and share your creation with others.

The possibilities are truly endless with a game like this. Build your world, Change your world, Share your world.

I have read almost every rumor out there.
The one I believe the most is leaked from a Nintendo employee to a friend of his that posted it, and who also stated to take it with a grain of salt as the guy has had about a 60% track record on correctness in the past.

Out of everything I've read, here are the predictions I will make myself:

1) Gyroscopic controllers are almost a certainty. Almost every rumor says this, and Nintendo even made a contract with a gyroscope controller. There are gyroscopic mouses out there, so a gyroscopic controller will give the players the CONTROL OF A KEYBOARD AND MOUSE. That will be incredible for FPS games, and as a result, I believe the Revolution will be the FPS platform of choice. Metroid Prime 3, baby!!!

Steering by tilting a controller would also be incredible, making the Revolution the system of choice for racing (unless Gran Turismo 5 is really, really good for PS3- either way, XBox 2 gets slaughtered on racing).

2) The Revolution will use HD-DVD rather than Blu-ray.

3) The Revolution will connect to the DS. Ignore the rumors that it'll connect to the next GameBoy. It's been specificly stated by the head of Nintendo marketting that it WILL connect to the DS, and that players would "need extra hardware" to connect to the GameCube.

4) Built in 802.11 wireless. See point 3- if players need extra hardware to connect the DS to the GameCube according to official Nintendo statements, and DON'T need extra hardware for the Revolution, the Rev. must therefore have wireless built in. I figured this out without the rumors, but this fits well with the leaks that also claimed built in wireless.

Wireless would be quite cool for LAN parties.

5) Internet out of the box with 802.11b and possibly ethernet.
From Nintendo's statements about what they learned from the GameCube, and the fact that they're coming out with a DS online service before the year ends, I agree with the rumors that the Rev will have online play out of the box. However, Nintendo has said that they will be designing the Revolution about long-distance multiplayer but will not follow the online model. What this means, I am not sure. Perhaps there will be no subscriptions like XBox Live? Will they use tunnelling so people can join in LAN parties?

6) Some other really cool feature we know nothing about.

7) A great software lineup. It was stated that Nintendo has learned from their mistakes with the GameCube and Nintendo DS that they need a good software lineup. The leak states that they will have a Mario game (Mario 128? a SM64 successor), a Zelda game (w00t), and a Super Smash Bros game (SSBM was the best-selling GameCube game of all time, and SSB was the best-selling N64 game, makes sense).

maybe 8) I'm on the fence for this one, but according to the leak, it will have a 15 GB hard drive. It'd be cool though.



And NO TOUCH SCREENS ON THE CONTROLLERS. Possibly a touch pad but I doubt it. But NO TOUCH SCREEN.

MY OVERALL EXPECTATIONS FOR THE ENTIRE NEXT-GEN CONSOLE WARS:

If my predictions above are true:

1) The PlayStation 3 will have the best graphics. Graphicaholics will buy PS3.

2) The XBox 2, as we know, will be the first to the market. As a result, they will snatch up a lot of Halo fans. BUT, being first to the market (and not having the hard drive the original model had!) it will likely have the weakest graphics, or at least on par with the Revolution (remember, the Revolution might have slightly weaker specs made up for with revolutionary features- but since its coming out later, it will probably have good specs compared to the XBox 2).

The XBox was popular for having the best graphics, best FPS control (dual triggers), and a hard drive.
The XBox 2 will have weaker graphics (possibly the weakest), not as good FPS control as the Revolution, and no hard drive.

It's only hope is that it can snatch up all the early adopters, because it will get STOMPTED by the other consoles.

3) The Nintendo Revolution will have the revolutionary gameplay, incredible FPS control, possibly the hard drive like the XBox 1, and good graphics. It will get the gameplayaholics like me.



CONCLUSION:
So unless MS gets really lucky, I predict the people who want a new experience and great control will go Revolution, the people who want tip-top graphics will go PS3, and the XBox 2 will get stomped by both. MS might very well drop out of the console market since they made such a big loss on the first 'box.


HOWEVER, if Nintendo screws up with the Revolution, they will get burned alive and completely stomped.

I think Nintendo's future in the console market depends on the Revolution. If the Revolution fails miserably, Nintendo will stop making consoles and stick with handhelds and make games for other consoles.

[GFLPraxis]

I do not agree about Nintendo Revolution beeing "All That". Don't you realize that maybe the mini disk did reduce piracy but also harm the company. What is the most popular O/S in the world ? Windows. Why ? because it's the most pirate one. The success of microsoft is based of piracy.

Nintendo is on a downfall. It will again finish dead last in the console war just like it did this generation. Nintendo should stick at what they do best : Developping software. Nintendo is surviving because of his handheld market. They lost almost all 3rd party support and will continue to do so. The age group for nintendo will be 6-14 years.

I once had a Famicon (nintendo 8 bits) and it was the best. Duck Hunt / Mario Bros / Contra. Who haven't played thoses classics. Since N64, when they decided not to follow Sony advice and used CD instead of cartridge, They went dowhill. The gaming industry has change and Nintendo is not following the right path.

Until I see extreme changes in Nintendo philosophy, I will no longer supported their product.



Nintendo is under new leadership, new CEO, new marketting head, etc, and HAS changed their philosophy. They have also acknowledged their mistakes (not going to CD, not supporting online play) and intend to fix it with the Revolution. Read the interviews, and give them another chance.

I have to say, though, that I am a proud GameCube owner and would not trade it for an XBox or PS2. Any day. Ever.

Zelda: The Wind Waker and Metroid Prime and Super Smash Bros Melee and even Super Mario Sunshine are just INCREDIBLE games. Sure, SMS has a childish theme, but the graphics and particle effects and water are amazing, beating even newer XBox games. Wind Waker is unmatched- I have never played a better game. Metroid Prime rules. Super Smash Bros is the best party game ever.

Nintendo games simply own.

[GFLPraxis]

Games should be easy and fun for people to just pick up and play, for example, when people come over. Crash Team Racing and Mario Carts, for example. They don't have any locked cars or tracks.

Actually no. Mario Kart has several locked multiplayer tracks, however they're not advertised, so you don't know they exist until you unlock them. And they're really easy to get.

Gyro controllers have been out for a while, so that's a possibility. The machine could include a cheap camera for customizing games with your picture. It could also include an online connection for multiplayer gaming, IM, email and web browsing. I hope it wouldn't be tied to a ripoff service. Also, the DS could be used as a client to the machine somehow.


They also have Gyro mouses.

[Symtex]

I have read almost every rumor out there.
The one I believe the most is leaked from a Nintendo employee to a friend of his that posted it, and who also stated to take it with a grain of salt as the guy has had about a 60% track record on correctness in the past.

Out of everything I've read, here are the predictions I will make myself:

1) Gyroscopic controllers are almost a certainty. Almost every rumor says this, and Nintendo even made a contract with a gyroscope controller. There are gyroscopic mouses out there, so a gyroscopic controller will give the players the CONTROL OF A KEYBOARD AND MOUSE. That will be incredible for FPS games, and as a result, I believe the Revolution will be the FPS platform of choice. Metroid Prime 3, baby!!!

Steering by tilting a controller would also be incredible, making the Revolution the system of choice for racing (unless Gran Turismo 5 is really, really good for PS3- either way, XBox 2 gets slaughtered on racing).

2) The Revolution will use HD-DVD rather than Blu-ray.

3) The Revolution will connect to the DS. Ignore the rumors that it'll connect to the next GameBoy. It's been specificly stated by the head of Nintendo marketting that it WILL connect to the DS, and that players would "need extra hardware" to connect to the GameCube.

4) Built in 802.11 wireless. See point 3- if players need extra hardware to connect the DS to the GameCube according to official Nintendo statements, and DON'T need extra hardware for the Revolution, the Rev. must therefore have wireless built in. I figured this out without the rumors, but this fits well with the leaks that also claimed built in wireless.

Wireless would be quite cool for LAN parties.

5) Internet out of the box with 802.11b and possibly ethernet.
From Nintendo's statements about what they learned from the GameCube, and the fact that they're coming out with a DS online service before the year ends, I agree with the rumors that the Rev will have online play out of the box. However, Nintendo has said that they will be designing the Revolution about long-distance multiplayer but will not follow the online model. What this means, I am not sure. Perhaps there will be no subscriptions like XBox Live? Will they use tunnelling so people can join in LAN parties?

6) Some other really cool feature we know nothing about.

7) A great software lineup. It was stated that Nintendo has learned from their mistakes with the GameCube and Nintendo DS that they need a good software lineup. The leak states that they will have a Mario game (Mario 128? a SM64 successor), a Zelda game (w00t), and a Super Smash Bros game (SSBM was the best-selling GameCube game of all time, and SSB was the best-selling N64 game, makes sense).

maybe 8) I'm on the fence for this one, but according to the leak, it will have a 15 GB hard drive. It'd be cool though.





MY OVERALL EXPECTATIONS FOR THE ENTIRE NEXT-GEN CONSOLE WARS:

If my predictions above are true:

1) The PlayStation 3 will have the best graphics. Graphicaholics will buy PS3.

2) The XBox 2, as we know, will be the first to the market. As a result, they will snatch up a lot of Halo fans. BUT, being first to the market (and not having the hard drive the original model had!) it will likely have the weakest graphics, or at least on par with the Revolution (remember, the Revolution might have slightly weaker specs made up for with revolutionary features- but since its coming out later, it will probably have good specs compared to the XBox 2).

The XBox was popular for having the best graphics, best FPS control (dual triggers), and a hard drive.
The XBox 2 will have weaker graphics (possibly the weakest), not as good FPS control as the Revolution, and no hard drive.

It's only hope is that it can snatch up all the early adopters, because it will get STOMPTED by the other consoles.

3) The Nintendo Revolution will have the revolutionary gameplay, incredible FPS control, possibly the hard drive like the XBox 1, and good graphics. It will get the gameplayaholics like me.



CONCLUSION:
So unless MS gets really lucky, I predict the people who want a new experience and great control will go Revolution, the people who want tip-top graphics will go PS3, and the XBox 2 will get stomped by both. MS might very well drop out of the console market since they made such a big loss on the first 'box.


HOWEVER, if Nintendo screws up with the Revolution, they will get burned alive and completely stomped.

I think Nintendo's future in the console market depends on the Revolution. If the Revolution fails miserably, Nintendo will stop making consoles and stick with handhelds and make games for other consoles.

Are you kidding me ? You are serious ? Nothing like a little "Microsoft hate" on a Mac website.

I just have a few question ? how many mario game do we really need ? Nintendo has milked those franchise since forever. They need something new. They have been rehashing the same thing over and over. Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 2, Zelda WW and all other Nintendo first party title could not sell hardware. What does that tell you ?

Trust me on this. PS3 will only have a sligh advantage graphicly over xbox2. Why ? Because ATI R520 GPU is owning Nvidia's GPU anyday.

Microsoft will not get out of the console business. If you think so, it's that you never understood why MS has decided to invest in that business in the 1st place : It's to enter people's living room with Multipurpose Multimedia appliance. It's an extension of Windows Media PC. This is where the "niche" of the market is. Not only Microsoft has understood this but Sony did too.

This is where nintendo will fail. My prediction is this is last Nintendo gaming console.

[GFLPraxis]

It's time for the Nintendo-haters fanboy rant.Are you kidding me ? You are serious ? Nothing like a little "Microsoft hate" on a Mac website.

I just have a few question ? how many mario game do we really need ? Nintendo has milked those franchise since forever. They need something new. They have been rehashing the same thing over and over. Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 2, Zelda WW and all other Nintendo first party title could not sell hardware. What does that tell you ?

Because of BAD DEVELOPER SUPPORT. Nintendo made stupid mistakes with developers and caused them to move to other platforms. They've already announced that they're trying to rectify this and bring developers back. In fact, they called the Nintendo DS the "Developers System" (DS) when it was announced.

Trust me on this. PS3 will only have a sligh advantage graphicly over xbox2. Why ? Because ATI R520 GPU is owning Nvidia's GPU anyday.

Depends what the Cell is capable of. Those APU's are SUPER optimized for 3d rendering.

And here's another fanboy claim of yours. NVidia and ATi's top GPU's are about equal, depending on the game. Neither owns the other. Pull out Doom 3 (with NVidias superior OpenGL and shader support) with AA on max, and watch out the NVidia Geforce 6800 Ultra completely owns the X800 by so much that its not even funny. Do the same thing on UT2k4, the X800 wins by a bit.

"ATI is owning NVidia"? I disagree.
Besides, the XBox 1 uses an NVidia card, GameCube uses ATi...hmmm :p

EDIT: Just to back up my claim.
3d Mark 05: NVidia wins.
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041222/images/image002.gif
UT2k4 with max settings: NVidia wins.
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041222/images/image008.gif
UT2k4 with low settings: ATi wins, barely (2 fps).
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041222/images/image006.gif
Call of Duty: NVidia wins.
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041222/images/image009.gif
Doom 3: NVidia wins.
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041222/images/image012.gif
Far Cry: NVidia wins by a landslide.
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041222/images/image017.gif

On the other hand, in Battlefield Vietnam or MS Flight Simulator 2004, ATi takes the cake.
Conclusion: ATi does NOT 'own' NVidia. The cards are evenly matched. NVidia generally wins at the ultra highest quality settings while ATi gets the fastest FPS on medium-to-low settings. Depends on the game. NEITHER KICKS THE OTHER ONES REAR!



Microsoft will not get out of the console business. If you think so, it's that you never understood why MS has decided to invest in that business in the 1st place : It's to enter people's living room with Multipurpose Multimedia appliance. It's an extension of Windows Media PC. This is where the "niche" of the market is. Not only Microsoft has understood this but Sony did too.

...
I remember reading that MS would drop out of the console market if the XBox 2 took a big loss like the first did.
You're saying that even if both systems took massive losses they'd still keep at it? lol.



This is where nintendo will fail. My prediction is this is last Nintendo gaming console.


Interesting post.
And absolutely no reason for this prediction, right?
Even if the Revolution IS revolutionary, and my predictions are correct and it IS that astoundingly good, you just say "it will fail" because its Nintendo.

That proves that you're just being a fanboy here. My post makes sense:
If Nintendo does the Revolution right and it IS this good, they'll take the cake for FPS and racing games and get quite a big market. XBox, losing all its advantages, gets slaughtered. If they FAIL to deliver, Nintendo gets crushed.

Your post? LOL
You counter none of my points. Your entire post is mostly,
"OMG N1nt3nd0 suxx0rz, Microsoft would not get out of the console system if they took a big loss twice in a row but Nintendo would, you have no grasp on reality, blah blah blah!!!!"

Yawn. Take a debating class or something.

[mrgreen4242]

I do not agree about Nintendo Revolution beeing "All That". Don't you realize that maybe the mini disk did reduce piracy but also harm the company. What is the most popular O/S in the world ? Windows. Why ? because it's the most pirate one. The success of microsoft is based of piracy.

Nintendo is on a downfall. It will again finish dead last in the console war just like it did this generation. Nintendo should stick at what they do best : Developping software. Nintendo is surviving because of his handheld market. They lost almost all 3rd party support and will continue to do so. The age group for nintendo will be 6-14 years.

I once had a Famicon (nintendo 8 bits) and it was the best. Duck Hunt / Mario Bros / Contra. Who haven't played thoses classics. Since N64, when they decided not to follow Sony advice and used CD instead of cartridge, They went dowhill. The gaming industry has change and Nintendo is not following the right path.

Until I see extreme changes in Nintendo philosophy, I will no longer supported their product.

While Nintendo is in thirsd place for consoles in North America, it is way ahead of the XBox in Japan, which is a huge market. It is also, if I recall, very close or ahead of MS in Europe.

Sure, things LOOK bad for them now in terms of units out there HERE, but realistically, they are doing well overall. They were the first to make a profit on the actual hardware, and continue to make money on the GC.

The NR will have some innovative features, as mentioned, but I think that what is going to make or break the system is, as always with Nintendo, the first party titles. IF they launch a good Mario and Zelda title within the first year they will make it alright.

To the folks who say that they've milked mario and zelda enough, well, DUH. It's not like any of the Mario or Zelda games are direct sequels to the previous ones (well, not for more than 2 or 3 games in a row), they are just name brands that they use to showcase a new game!

Do you think that Sony has milked the PS enough yet?! I mean, c'mon, PlayStation, PlayStation 2, PSone, PlayStation Portable, and now a PlayStation 3?! Get original! Oh, wait, none of those systems are the same (sans PS and PSone), they are just capitalizing on name brands.

I'm assuming/hoping for wireless internet built in with support for online play of ALL multiplayer games. Rather than go the XBox route, I think they need to just setup a system such that any game capable of multisystem play can be played online by entering in the IP of a friend(s) with that same game booted up. Should also allow for playing games with one disc, assuming you can play multiplayer on the same console, kind of like the DS supports.

Rob

[GFLPraxis]

IF they launch a good Mario and Zelda title within the first year they will make it alright.

I'm assuming/hoping for wireless internet built in with support for online play of ALL multiplayer games. Rather than go the XBox route, I think they need to just setup a system such that any game capable of multisystem play can be played online by entering in the IP of a friend(s) with that same game booted up. Should also allow for playing games with one disc, assuming you can play multiplayer on the same console, kind of like the DS supports.

Rob

Both of those things are rumored and the wireless is very likely from statements fro Nintendo :D see my post.

[Drgnhntr]

CONCLUSION:
So unless MS gets really lucky, I predict the people who want a new experience and great control will go Revolution, the people who want tip-top graphics will go PS3, and the XBox 2 will get stomped by both. MS might very well drop out of the console market since they made such a big loss on the first 'box.


HOWEVER, if Nintendo screws up with the Revolution, they will get burned alive and completely stomped.

I think Nintendo's future in the console market depends on the Revolution. If the Revolution fails miserably, Nintendo will stop making consoles and stick with handhelds and make games for other consoles.

I really can't see how Nintendo will fail miserably with Revolution. They have been "profitable" in the gaming business for a long time and I believe they will correct all the mistakes they made with gamecube. One of the mistakes I think was not including a HD, or other mass storage device. Otherwise, I totally agree with your predictions and conclusion.

[GFLPraxis]

I really can't see how Nintendo will fail miserably with Revolution. They have been "profitable" in the gaming business for a long time and I believe they will correct all the mistakes they made with gamecube. One of the mistakes I think was not including a HD, or other mass storage device. Otherwise, I totally agree with your predictions and conclusion.

Well, if Nintendo was to fail, they'd have to do something really bad.

Let's see...if they combined each and every mistake they made with each and every previous console and handheld...

No wireless, no internet connectivity (think GameCube), terrible launch lineup (think the DS's launch lineup, one Mario game and nothing else from Nintendo, no Zelda game or Metroid game even 4 months after launch), no HD, some proprietary nobody-uses-it format for disks, and if there turn out to be almost no truly 'revolutionary' features...
Well...then it would fail.

But Nintendo has a pretty good shot, and as long as they don't do something incredibly stupid... :D they should do fine.



What do you guys think of HD-DVD vs Blu-ray?

It's very similar to VHS vs Betamax. Blu-ray is Sony-owned, HD-DVD is made by Toshiba, NEC, and Sanyo.


IIRC, Disney, Dell, EA, HP, Dolby, Panasonic, Hitachi, and a ton of other companies are backing Blu-ray while Toshiba, Pixar, Warner Bros, Paramount, Dreamworks, Universal, and a ton of other companies are backing HD-DVD.

The major differences:
Blu-ray disks carry 45 GB, but are produced differently (requiring different factories) and are thus more expensive to make.

HD-DVD disks carry 30 GB but can be produced at current plants.

The 45 and 30 GB figures are assuming dual layer, but tri-layer disks are being developed. They also were able to make the third layer a DVD layer, so you get a Blu-ray or HD disk in a BR or HD player, and see a DVD when you put it in a DVD player. Or they could just put more for the BR or HD layers.

It seems Sony would go Blu-ray and MS and Nintendo would go HD-DVD.

Who are you rooting for for the final standard?

[Symtex]

We will see in 2006 who will be right. I do believe that Nintendo will be last in the console war next generation. I gave numerous reason why nintendo will fail. N64 failed, Gamecube failed too, I haven't seen any concrete information been available that would make me thing otherwise for the next generation.

I remember 4 years ago, everybody laugh at Micrososft when they announce the xbox. Look where they are in the market now. They predicted that no north american company could ever success in the console gaming business. Of course they know xbox wouldn't make money. It was to test the market, prepare the infrastructure, understanding the industry before launching the product they wanted in the 1st place : "Xenon".

I'm not a fanboy, I've work in the gaming industry for 3 years. I own all 3 console at home. I think my co-workers and friend has played more then I did with my gamecube. I bought MP and Zelda. That is it. It's not because I have something against Nintendo. They have brought so many great memory in the past.

I will be waiting patiently for the E3 to see what they call "Revolution". Like I said so many times before, The gaming industry has change so much. Gamers are now 20-35 years old. Gamers are more and more inform now. They read numerous reviews before buying. This is where Nintendo hasn't change. They think they could make another game with the name Zelda and Mario and that it will sell hardware.

Their lack of supporting the online community has played against Nintendo. They still claim today that they believe in the "Single player" experience. They have lost 5 years of experience in maintaining and operating an online infrastructure. They will be so far behind.

Now I do believe that Nintendo has the power to turn the tides around. They need dramatic changes in the company upper management. As long as they continue to attack the market conservativly, they will not gain share in the market. They have major talents and creativity working for Nintendo and they need to use that advantage by offering what the GAMERS wants, not what they think they want. If gamers wants online, give them online. If they want a HD-DVD player, give it to them.

I might be a bit harsh against Nintendo but it's time for tough love. They need to go above and beyond to gain my love again. If they do come up with something revolutionary, like they claim to be, I will be the 1st one in line to buy Nintendo Revolution.

[GFLPraxis]

We will see in 2006 who will be right. I do believe that Nintendo will be last in the console war next generation. I gave numerous reason why nintendo will fail. N64 failed, Gamecube failed too, I haven't seen any concrete information been available that would make me thing otherwise for the next generation.

I've got to dispute this.
The GameCube did NOT fail. It only appears that.
Firstly, it has a higher market share in Japan, near the top.

But more importantly...
The XBox has the top market share in North America. BUT MS TOOK A LOSS. Even the MASSIVE Halo 2 frenzy only let them temporarily BREAK EVEN. Nintendo got a *considerable* profit on the GameCube (only losing on the market share chart for North America), but Microsoft took a considerable LOSS.

And especially considering the fact that Nintendo has acknoledged their mistakes and plan on correcting them (the biggest mistake was no online play), means I don't agree with your reasoning that the Revolution will fail because the GC and N64 'failed' (despite the fact that they made a profit).

'Numerous reasons' isn't accurrate- your only reason was because Nintendo would fail because they did last time.

But yeah, we'll see in May.

I will be waiting patiently for the E3 to see what they call "Revolution". Like I said so many times before, The gaming industry has change so much. Gamers are now 20-35 years old. Gamers are more and more inform now. They read numerous reviews before buying. This is where Nintendo hasn't change. They think they could make another game with the name Zelda and Mario and that it will sell hardware.

And again, Nintendo has decided to target an older audience and acknowledged it as one of their mistakes.

Their lack of supporting the online community has played against Nintendo. They still claim today that they believe in the "Single player" experience. They have lost 5 years of experience in maintaining and operating an online infrastructure. They will be so far behind.

Another one of their mistakes they acknowledged and intent to correct witht he Revolution. Their online service will be rolled out for the DS and be ready at the Revolution's launch.



Now I do believe that Nintendo has the power to turn the tides around. They need dramatic changes in the company upper management. As long as they continue to attack the market conservativly, they will not gain share in the market. They have major talents and creativity working for Nintendo and they need to use that advantage by offering what the GAMERS wants, not what they think they want. If gamers wants online, give them online. If they want a HD-DVD player, give it to them.


As I said!
They have completely revamped the upper management. New head of marketting, NEW CEO. They're targetting an older audience. They're changing their strategy and planning for online multiplayer out of the box.

Nintendo is doing exactly what you say they need to do to turn the tides. Give them a little slack for that.

[applekid]

What Nintendo needs to do:

- Reach out to the new older audience. The games can still reach everyone even kids, but they need some sort of appeal. Sports games are an example. The new Zelda and Metroid Prime are also good examples where the game can be fun for everyone, but still have appeal for the 20+ year old male. This can help bring back the third party support.

- Keep the controller cheap. People are fantasizing about a touchsreen. That's a no-no. Nintendo cannot go over $35 a controller without getting scrutinized. No company will shoot themselves in the foot like that. I'm expecting something more revolutionary than a gyroscope controller and VR headset though.

- Go online. The DS soon will according to rumors. I'm sure Revolution will follow along. Be like Live, but better. It can be done.

- Get back that third party support. Exclusives or special incentives for the gamers. Resident Evil 4, Soul Calibur II, and NBA Street Vol. 3 are good examples of a little incentive for Nintendo's gamers. RE4 came out earlier for the GameCube than PS2, SCII included Link as a special character, and NBA Street includes a special Nintendo team.

- Use HD-DVD. BluRay is probably out of the question, but the GameCube disc showed its age in a couple of years. Movies had to be compressed and looked inferior. Games needed more space but the GameCube's disc did not provide it. Even if it opens itself to piracy, it just might sell more consoles. I know of plenty of PS2 owners with at least one pirated game. It may have helped Sony sell more consoles.

Read this article. (http://cube.ign.com/articles/591/591150p1.html) The last sentence is what answers the question about what made Nintendo a weak competitor. They need to show they learned their lesson.

E3 is coming in May. Nintendo better answer our prayers by then, or the future is bleak for gaming.

[Drgnhntr]

But Nintendo has a pretty good shot, and as long as they don't do something incredibly stupid... :D they should do fine.


I was mainly thinking that even if they only get half of the rumors you mentioned, it will still be an impressive system. I would hope that Nintendo is aware of how important this launch is for them and that they need to get it right. If Nintendo does mess up, it wouldn't be the first time. I just don't think it will be the last time either.


What do you guys think of HD-DVD vs Blu-ray?


From what I have heard, HD-DVD is cheaper. Cheaper to make, so that translates cheaper to consumers. I have not heard very much about what use this added capacity is going to be used for. I know more space is better but what can you do with 45 GB that you can't do with 30 GB? Is there a huge demand for anything close to that amount of capacity in the gaming industry?

[Symtex]

I've got to dispute this.
The GameCube did NOT fail. It only appears that.
Firstly, it has a higher market share in Japan, near the top.

But more importantly...
The XBox has the top market share in North America. BUT MS TOOK A LOSS. Even the MASSIVE Halo 2 frenzy only let them temporarily BREAK EVEN. Nintendo got a *considerable* profit on the GameCube (only losing on the market share chart for North America), but Microsoft took a considerable LOSS.

And especially considering the fact that Nintendo has acknoledged their mistakes and plan on correcting them (the biggest mistake was no online play), means I don't agree with your reasoning that the Revolution will fail because the GC and N64 'failed' (despite the fact that they made a profit).

'Numerous reasons' isn't accurrate- your only reason was because Nintendo would fail because they did last time.

But yeah, we'll see in May.


And again, Nintendo has decided to target an older audience and acknowledged it as one of their mistakes.


Another one of their mistakes they acknowledged and intent to correct witht he Revolution. Their online service will be rolled out for the DS and be ready at the Revolution's launch.




As I said!
They have completely revamped the upper management. New head of marketting, NEW CEO. They're targetting an older audience. They're changing their strategy and planning for online multiplayer out of the box.

Nintendo is doing exactly what you say they need to do to turn the tides. Give them a little slack for that.

I've notice alot of arguments that always come back is "Profitability". Don't you know that MS launch the xbox with losing money on purpose ? It was the plan. They are a new comer and needed to learn the business. I think they did pretty good.

I do not care about Japan. sorry don't mean to be so harsh. I live in North America. I want product that fullfill the need of a North American. Fine if they sell in Japan, They are a japanese company.

I will praise Nintendo again the day they show me proof of deep changes. E3 is only 1.5 month away and I can't wait. I will be reading forums and website none-stop for 3 days.

[GFLPraxis]

I was mainly thinking that even if they only get half of the rumors you mentioned, it will still be an impressive system. I would hope that Nintendo is aware of how important this launch is for them and that they need to get it right. If Nintendo does mess up, it wouldn't be the first time. I just don't think it will be the last time either.

And I only listed half the rumors out there, as well :) There's also the one about attachments for older systems (think the GBA player for the GameCube, except you could get ones for SNES and N64 and NES games...), and one about touch sensitive 'rumble strips' so you get different types of feedback, and one that says it will not connect to the DS but to the next gen GameBoy. And tons more. :)

[Sol]

I hope that the next Nintendo console and hand-held feature a 'jog-shuttle' control. If you do not know what these are have a look at the round knobs of most consumer VCRs or at the following peripheral that many video editors use.
http://www.contourdesign.com/shuttlepro/index.htm

This type of analogue control is superior to the analogue sticks that are featured on all modern gamepads. The original Atari console used something similar for Pong. Today driving games would benefit the most from something like this. As for the other genres, I do not think that analogue control necessarilly makes them better. The only genre that would be better with a stick is flying simulators but those have never been big sellers on consoles.

[Ringo]

They think they could make another game with the name Zelda and Mario and that it will sell hardware.


Have you checked the next Zelda screenshot and movie??? Surely the killer app for game cube this year.If zelda was not only on gamecube i think i would not own one and i dont think im alone thinkin like that. So it's look like those game are in facts sellin hardware

[faustfire]

Everyone, please stop using the word "fanboy", it sounds so stupid. Oh yea, who cares which game console is better, play the one that has the titles you like, and get over it. As you were.

[Mav451]

Lol, as expected this turns into a "rivalry" of sorts. Either you are FOR or against Nintendo (even though the very first post specifically asked that there be none of this).

These "fanboy" arguments are nothing. Go to HardOCP and see how split the forum is on ATi or nVidia. Its frightening at times, but always entertaining.

[Dagless]

haha sorry but this is soooo ironic

PS1+N64. PS fans said "oh the PS1 has better games (COF and its chip-able) graphics dont mean anything"

PS2+GC. again they said "oooh graphics dont mean anything!!!!11"


i completely understand that graphics are not everything, but when people here are saying that the PS3 will have the BIGGEST FASTST MST POWEERFULZ!!! video card ever and beat ninty's next console down well... this is like some little bullied kid finds out he has a big tough cousin so he starts to strut his stuff. only to realise he has no Metroid, no Mario and certainly no Zelda.

Also people say Nintendo are losing? may i point out http://gamefaqs.com. take a look at the Poll section and compare people who want a PSP to those who want a DS. PSP did quite bad, DS didnt do amazing either but it still did better. handheld market; pwned.
And 2 years ago i did a poll at college as part of a big project, people stated which consoles they own and why. about 2400 people took part and it gave very interesting results which reflects the kind of people playing the PS2.
Gamecube came 2nd with most reasons being "because its an allround fun console"
PS2 came 1st with 90% of the reasons being "meh, i dont know"
incidently Xbox came 3rd, close to the cube with "i like Halo" as the reason. fairplay; good game :)

and if the Revolution WAS to link up to the DS and the GBA2 then it WOULD CERTAINLY have 802.11 wireless without any doubt... the only physical port on the DS is the power socket :rolleyes:

whatever ninty puts in the next generation Metroids are going to be jawdroppingly amazing... whilst the PS3 owners will still be using the same controller, same console but with a '3' at the end... yada... :cool:

but please. no virtual reality helmets nintnedo/rumor starters. they died so long ago

[Symtex]

Have you checked the next Zelda screenshot and movie??? Surely the killer app for game cube this year.If zelda was not only on gamecube i think i would not own one and i dont think im alone thinkin like that. So it's look like those game are in facts sellin hardware

Of course i have seen the video. I think that might be the reason why I haven't sold my gamecube yet. Even with a killer app like Zelda, they didn't sell more hardware because fan of the series already bought the gamecube previously.

I think the % of gamecube owner might very by group age or demography. In Canada, per example, the gamecube is almost nowhere. Retail store only have 1 shelf of gamecube product compare to 3 o 4 shelf of playstation or xbox. Same for Blockbuster or any other video rental store.

However, the nintendo handheld market is very profitable and good for them. This is why I said previously that Nintendo should stick to that.

[Jovian9]

I have to say, though, that I am a proud GameCube owner and would not trade it for an XBox or PS2. Any day. Ever.


Agreed. I actually gave my PS2 to my nephews b/c I have fun playing the Gamecube and the PS2 had no fun games (other than Castlevania)...though GT4 is fun. Plus I cannot stand the Playstation controllers.

It is amusing that so many believe that the Gamecube has failed when it continues to turn a profit for Nintendo and the XBox has lost money for m$. A company cannot merely focus on how many people have their consoles....they have to make money from them in order to continue in the future.

It is also amusing that so many believe that the Revolution will have to be a savior for Nintendo. I do believe that Nintendo has been doing this a lot longer than Sony and Microsoft and they are still around making lots of money off their products. Nintendo is working on its 5th console (Nintendo 8-bit, Super Nintendo, N64, Gamecube, and now Revolution) plus they have 5 handhelds to their name (Gameboy, GB Color, GBA, GBA SP, DS). How many systems/handhelds have Sony and Microsoft done? Sony is working on their 3rd console and have 1 handheld. Microsoft is working on only their 2nd console. Together they do not have as much experience as Nintendo in this business. Sega made great machines (4 Consoles...Sega MS, Genesis, Saturn, & Dreamcast plus the GameGear handheld) but they couldn't compete with Nintendo over time.

Nintendo makes video games and systems, that's what they do....so they will continue to be around doing this for a long time. And they will continue to make money doing this. Sony and m$ are not video game companies. They do not depend on this for the livelihood of their companies. We'll see who lasts longer.

[Symtex]

Agreed. I actually gave my PS2 to my nephews b/c I have fun playing the Gamecube and the PS2 had no fun games (other than Castlevania)...though GT4 is fun. Plus I cannot stand the Playstation controllers.

It is amusing that so many believe that the Gamecube has failed when it continues to turn a profit for Nintendo and the XBox has lost money for m$. A company cannot merely focus on how many people have their consoles....they have to make money from them in order to continue in the future.

It is also amusing that so many believe that the Revolution will have to be a savior for Nintendo. I do believe that Nintendo has been doing this a lot longer than Sony and Microsoft and they are still around making lots of money off their products. Nintendo is working on its 5th console (Nintendo 8-bit, Super Nintendo, N64, Gamecube, and now Revolution) plus they have 5 handhelds to their name (Gameboy, GB Color, GBA, GBA SP, DS). How many systems/handhelds have Sony and Microsoft done? Sony is working on their 3rd console and have 1 handheld. Microsoft is working on only their 2nd console. Together they do not have as much experience as Nintendo in this business. Sega made great machines (4 Consoles...Sega MS, Genesis, Saturn, & Dreamcast plus the GameGear handheld) but they couldn't compete with Nintendo over time.

Nintendo makes video games and systems, that's what they do....so they will continue to be around doing this for a long time. And they will continue to make money doing this. Sony and m$ are not video game companies. They do not depend on this for the livelihood of their companies. We'll see who lasts longer.

N64 and Gamecube is a failure for Nintendo standard. A company that once dominated the gaming industry. The handheld is whole different market and should be mixed with the console business.

Never underestimate evil company like Sony and Microsoft. They will continu to dominate the gaming industry.

[Jovian9]

N64 and Gamecube is a failure for Nintendo standard. A company that once dominated the gaming industry. The handheld is whole different market and should be mixed with the console business.

Never underestimate evil company like Sony and Microsoft. They will continu to dominate the gaming industry.

So it's a failure by standards of a company that has been around and been great for decades and created these high standards. So video game console standards are measured by Nintendos past dominance. So why do so many think that if the Revolution is not up to the 'Nintendo Video Game Console Dominance Standard' that they will stop making consoles? They've managed to make 2 systems now that are not up to the NVGCDS and still be a profitable company.

So 2 of the 4 were failures by their own standards and 2 of the 4 were successes. Have Sony or m$ had more than 2 console successes yet? Have they survived 2 console failures by definition of the NVGCDS.

I have yet to see m$ dominate the gaming industry. How can you claim that both Sony and m$ are dominating the gaming industry? Domination is done by one party, like Nintendo in the 80's.

The handheld is a system in itself and is being dominated by Nintendo with Sony now entering. It is relevant b/c Nintendo has been innovative enough to give their handhelds the ability to interact with their consoles, therefore providing more gameplay experiences.
Nintendo also offers you the chance to play vintage games on these handhelds......and just like listening to an album from the 70's, playing a game from the 80's can be very fun or entertaining. Nintendo still manages to make money and provide fun gameplay from games they created decades ago on an 8-bit machine.......all while m$, who you claim is co-dominating the video game console market, is losing money.

So lets see, Nintendo can make money on 20 year old games while m$ loses money on a modern day system.
I will not argue against Sony, they have done very well with their 2 systems and perhaps they will continue to do well. But they have not done nearly as much as Nintendo has. Sony has reached their 3rd stage of console making, something Nintendo did around a decade ago with the N64. The PSOne and PS2 are both great systems, as was the Nintendo and Super Nintendo. So we'll see how Sony does the 3rd time around.
Regardless of whether or not the Revolution ends up being the best console or worst out of the 3, it will NOT be Nintendos last console.

[Yvan256]

Nintendo is on a downfall. It will again finish dead last in the console war just like it did this generation.

Sorry, but world-wide Nintendo is AHEAD of Microsoft (not by much, but they're not "dead last" like you said). Only in the USA is the Xbox so strong.

I once had a Famicon (nintendo 8 bits) and it was the best. Duck Hunt / Mario Bros / Contra. Who haven't played thoses classics. Since N64, when they decided not to follow Sony advice and used CD instead of cartridge, They went dowhill. The gaming industry has change and Nintendo is not following the right path.

Until I see extreme changes in Nintendo philosophy, I will no longer supported their product.

Ok, let's change a few names in what you just said:

"I once had an Apple II GS and it was the best. Since the Mac, when Apple decided not to follow IBM's advice and used 68k and then PPC instead of x86, they went downhill. The computer industry has changed and Apple is not following the right path.

Until I see extreme changes in Apple's philosophy (OS X for x86, native DRM-WMA support on iPod), I will no longer support their products."

Nintendo is exactly like Apple. If they ever start to follow either Sony or Microsoft, then they're doomed.

[Yvan256]

Everyone, please stop using the word "fanboy", it sounds so stupid. Oh yea, who cares which game console is better, play the one that has the titles you like, and get over it. As you were.

Score: +5, insightful.

Yeah, ok, so this ain't slashdot. Sue me. :D

But you know, faustfire is right. Why do we have consoles? To play games. The PS3 and Xbox next won't mean squat to me: I mostly play Zelda and Metroid games. And Pikmin ain't bad either.

Games are supposed to be FUN! Forget your GPUs and GHz and 2GB of RAM and HD-DVD and all that stuff, it doesn't mean anything if in the end you end up with the world's most beautiful, most braindead game.

Nintendo is like Apple. Nintendo thinks about games just like Apple thinks about software. Then, both build a hardware platform around their software requirements.

[GFLPraxis]

I've notice alot of arguments that always come back is "Profitability". Don't you know that MS launch the xbox with losing money on purpose ? It was the plan. They are a new comer and needed to learn the business. I think they did pretty good.

I do not care about Japan. sorry don't mean to be so harsh. I live in North America. I want product that fullfill the need of a North American. Fine if they sell in Japan, They are a japanese company.

I will praise Nintendo again the day they show me proof of deep changes. E3 is only 1.5 month away and I can't wait. I will be reading forums and website none-stop for 3 days.


Nope. You're thinking from a consumer standpoint, and believing that MS did better because they sold more XBoxes.

You have to think from a company standpoint.

The GameCube made Nintendo's stock go up.
The GameCube made money.

The XBox made Microsoft's stock go down.
The XBox lost money. IN TOTAL! Even with all the insane sales of Halo 2, the XBox STILL lost more than it gained!

From a corporate standpoint, the GameCube is more successful. The point of selling a console is not to sell as many as you can, its to make a PROFIT.

I'm not going to argue anymore, but I'm just going to point this out; the GameCube was N-O-T a failure, so I disagree with your statements about Nintendo going out of business.

[GFLPraxis]

BTW, back to the original topic.

Do you guys think the GameCube will be backwards compatable? It was rumored that it will be from some places, and rumored that it won't be by others.

Its still using IBM processors and ATi graphics chips just like the GameCube, so hardware shouldn't be too big a problem.

But if the Revolution is so Revolutionary, might it be too different (say, in perhaps the controllers) for us to play GameCube games on it?

[Yvan256]

It is amusing that so many believe that the Gamecube has failed when it continues to turn a profit for Nintendo and the XBox has lost money for m$. A company cannot merely focus on how many people have their consoles....they have to make money from them in order to continue in the future.

Hum, another intelligent comment. But it does sound familiar, though... where have I read something like that before?

Oh, wait, let's change a few words again:

"It is amusing that so many believe that Apple has failed when it continues to turn a profit. A company cannot merely focus on how many people have their computers... they have to make money from them in order to continue in the future."

Thought so.

I can't believe some people on Mac forums are turning around and using the same kind of comments pro-PC users make. :rolleyes: (not you, Jovian9) :D

[GFLPraxis]

Hum, another intelligent comment. But it does sound familiar, though... where have I read something like that before?

Oh, wait, let's change a few words again:

"It is amusing that so many believe that Apple has failed when it continues to turn a profit. A company cannot merely focus on how many people have their computers... they have to make money from them in order to continue in the future."

Thought so.

I can't believe some people on Mac forums are turning around and using the same kind of comments pro-PC users make. :rolleyes: (not you, Jovian9) :D


Your posts are quite amusing :D thanks for the chuckle.



Anyway, Symtex, I'll shut up about Nintendo vs MS if you'll do the same. We can get back to the NR. Deal?

[Yvan256]

Regardless of whether or not the Revolution ends up being the best console or worst out of the 3, it will NOT be Nintendos last console.

You know, this reminds me of a tagline I've read right here on MacRumors: "the day Apple has the most marketshare is the day I'm switching to Windows" (or something like that).

If Nintendo ever becomes #1, either the competition will be really crappy or Nintendo will have fallen to the lowest common denominator (crappy boring games with pretty graphics and FMV taking 50% space on the media).

[Yvan256]

Do you guys think the GameCube will be backwards compatable? It was rumored that it will be from some places, and rumored that it won't be by others.

Well, wanna hear a good one? I've heard a rumor about the Revolution using CARTS. Yes, you read that right. Something about Nintendo being pissed of by pirates (though I've never seen any copied discs not heard about anyone copying GC discs either).

It IS possible though, just think about it. We're up to 4GB for CompactFlash media. That's flash memory, kids. Expensive. I wonder how much would a 4GB ROM cost? The GC discs are about 1.5GB if I remember correctly.

So, the first Revolution games would be 4GB ROM and could be bigger when ROM prices go down and capacities increases.

Granted, ROM costs more than discs, but that didn't stop Nintendo before (N64).

Strange rumor indeed. Though that'd make the Revolution the fastest console, as far as "game loading" is concerned. :D

Bah, just use small HD-DVD discs (say, 8GB) and put enough RAM to cache it all on start-up. :D

[ravenvii]

Well, wanna hear a good one? I've heard a rumor about the Revolution using CARTS. Yes, you read that right. Something about Nintendo being pissed of by pirates (though I've never seen any copied discs not heard about anyone copying GC discs either).

It IS possible though, just think about it. We're up to 4GB for CompactFlash media. That's flash memory, kids. Expensive. I wonder how much would a 4GB ROM cost? The GC discs are about 1.5GB if I remember correctly.

So, the first Revolution games would be 4GB ROM and could be bigger when ROM prices go down and capacities increases.

Granted, ROM costs more than discs, but that didn't stop Nintendo before (N64).

Strange rumor indeed. Though that'd make the Revolution the fastest console, as far as "game loading" is concerned. :D

Bah, just use small HD-DVD discs (say, 8GB) and put enough RAM to cache it all on start-up. :D

Going back to carts would be a STUPID move, unless the console is a HUGE success (to the level of the Game Boy). Not because carts suck, but because publishers will have to make a whole new manufacturing line to make those carts, while with CDs/DVDs, they already have the things they need, they just burn different data on them for each of the consoles. Carts = bad idea.

[GFLPraxis]

Well, wanna hear a good one? I've heard a rumor about the Revolution using CARTS. Yes, you read that right. Something about Nintendo being pissed of by pirates (though I've never seen any copied discs not heard about anyone copying GC discs either).

It IS possible though, just think about it. We're up to 4GB for CompactFlash media. That's flash memory, kids. Expensive. I wonder how much would a 4GB ROM cost? The GC discs are about 1.5GB if I remember correctly.

So, the first Revolution games would be 4GB ROM and could be bigger when ROM prices go down and capacities increases.

Granted, ROM costs more than discs, but that didn't stop Nintendo before (N64).

Strange rumor indeed. Though that'd make the Revolution the fastest console, as far as "game loading" is concerned. :D

Bah, just use small HD-DVD discs (say, 8GB) and put enough RAM to cache it all on start-up. :D

Wow. That's crazy.
4 GB CF cards literally cost $300 nowadays...
Which should be the price of the Revolution :p

I think Nintendo will probably go the HD-DVD route. Makes the most sense to me. But that is an interesting rumor.

The rumor I've heard on the specs was that Nintendo was testing two systems:
dual 1.8 GHz G5 w/256 MB RAM, 15 GB HD and ATi graphics card
vs
single 2.7 GHz G5 w/512 MB RAM, 15 GB HD and ATi graphics card
both with 128 MB of VRAM.

ANOTHER, seperate rumor claimed the Rev. would have dual processors, so I think the 1.8 is more accurate.

Now, before someone points out that the XBox 2 is rumored to have tri-core 3.5 GHz, I've found some interesting information.
People spouting that rumor didn't read it all. It's a tri-core 3.5 GHz POWER5 based processor that shares a single 1 MB of cache with all three!

Now, IBM hasn't made any POWER5 based processors yet...except...for the Cell. We know that the Cell will have one POWER5-based core from IBM's technical papers, that it gets to 4.6 GHz, and it is stripped down. By stripped down, I mean less cache, less pipelines, NO ALTIVEC, etc, etc. The thing gets WAY less performance per MHz than a single G5.

I suspect THIS is whats going in the XBox. Assuming the rumors are right of course, we're talking about three 3.5 GHz processors that get way less performance per MHz and are cheap to produce vs two 1.8 G5's that get way more performance per MHz. Which will be faster overall? I'm not sure, though I suspect the XBox, assuming the rumor is true (remember, it was claimed to have been leaked BEFORE IBM had their processor setbacks).

But why does it matter? Consider this:
1) The processor only matters for running the basic game engine, calculating the physics, running the AI, and processing the sound. Other than that, it's wasted. Having tons of processing power doesn't equate to better graphics. Once you pass a point its overkill.
2) Nintendo and Microsoft are both getting the SAME ATi GRAPHICS CHIP!
3) They have the same amount of rumored system RAM (256 MB)

Thats right on number 2. They're going to have the same graphics card!

Same graphics card, same amount of RAM, the ONLY difference is the processors and they're already fast enough that there will hardly be any noticeable difference.

So I suspect the Revolution and XBox 2 will have almost the same hardware capabilities. Unless, of course, the Revolution gets a better chip from ATi since its coming out later, but we don't know.

The Rev. and XBox 2 are so similar there have been "conspiracy theories" that MS and Nintendo are cooperating and they are the same console :rolleyes:

[Symtex]

Your posts are quite amusing :D thanks for the chuckle.



Anyway, Symtex, I'll shut up about Nintendo vs MS if you'll do the same. We can get back to the NR. Deal?

I'm quite amuse by some of your believe. It's alright. It's true Nintendo is alot like Apple. So it's fair to say that if Nintendo follow the same road, they will have a small market share but continue to be profitable.

I'm not pro MS or Sony or Nintendo since I own all 3 consoles. I will probably buy sony or MS next-gen but probably not Nintendo. The "Revolution" is not working for me. I don't believe Nintendo anymore. I'm could be 100% and deep inside I wish I am wrong.

I'll shut up about my Nintendo view now.

[Yvan256]

Going back to carts would be a STUPID move, unless the console is a HUGE success (to the level of the Game Boy). Not because carts suck, but because publishers will have to make a whole new manufacturing line to make those carts, while with CDs/DVDs, they already have the things they need, they just burn different data on them for each of the consoles. Carts = bad idea.

You really think publishers have manufacturing facilities? Of course not. They pick a manufacturer and send them the data and CD artwork. They also don't print their own books, etc.

Besides, there's already Gameboy SP and Nintendo DS carts. And there is (was?) N-Gage carts, special PSP discs in plastic cases, etc.

Think about it: if the capacity was there and prices were pretty much the same, I'd rather have carts than discs. Near-zero loading times makes for a much better gaming experience.

[Yvan256]

Wow. That's crazy.
4 GB CF cards literally cost $300 nowadays...
Which should be the price of the Revolution :p

Well, flash memory is a lot more expensive than ROM. A 4GB Revolution cart wouldn't cost anywhere near 300$US. Aren't most Gameboy SP and Nintendo DS carts priced LOWER than the majority of disc-based games?

I think Nintendo will probably go the HD-DVD route. Makes the most sense to me. But that is an interesting rumor.

The rumor I've heard on the specs was that Nintendo was testing two systems:
dual 1.8 GHz G5 w/256 MB RAM, 15 GB HD and ATi graphics card
vs
single 2.7 GHz G5 w/512 MB RAM, 15 GB HD and ATi graphics card
both with 128 MB of VRAM.

ANOTHER, seperate rumor claimed the Rev. would have dual processors, so I think the 1.8 is more accurate.

Err... Sounds like a PowerMac to me! When can I expect to run OS X and iLife on that? :D

[Yvan256]

The Rev. and XBox 2 are so similar there have been "conspiracy theories" that MS and Nintendo are cooperating and they are the same console :rolleyes:

Oh please for the love of everything that's pure and holy, NO.

That's like telling you that Apple and Microsoft are cooperating and Windows Longhorn will in fact be OS X 10.4 (and Apple is getting out of the hardware business).

[Yvan256]

I'm quite amuse by some of your believe. It's alright. It's true Nintendo is alot like Apple. So it's fair to say that if Nintendo follow the same road, they will have a small market share but continue to be profitable.

I'm not pro MS or Sony or Nintendo since I own all 3 consoles. I will probably buy sony or MS next-gen but probably not Nintendo. The "Revolution" is not working for me. I don't believe Nintendo anymore. I'm could be 100% and deep inside I wish I am wrong.

I'll shut up about my Nintendo view now.

Well, so what if Nintendo ends up #3, far behind the two others? As long as they're profitable they shouldn't be concerned. Just like we shouldn't worry about Apple not having 50% of the computer marketshare (unless the other 50% gets so infected with worms that the internet itself becomes unusable).

Also, I don't see why you "don't believe in Nintendo anymore". I agree with you on the N64, that thing just sucked (most blurry 3D graphics I've ever seen, I get headaches just looking at N64 games for 3 minutes). Hated the controller too.

I don't agree with you on the Gamecube though. It's a very powerful system, and the next Zelda will be another proof of that. And it's got my prefered controller too (here's hoping Nintendo doesn't screw up for the Revolution controller design, I want something comfortable for average hands, not good that looks good on a shelf).

Even if the PS3 and Xbox Next end up with superior hardware (which I don't think will happen after reading a previous post), it's all about the games as I said earlier.

Game consoles are at about the same point as computers are. You can upgrade the speed, have prettier graphics and add more stuff to it, but we're reached a hardware peak which, beyond that, doesn't matter much (for our current idea of gaming, anyway). It's all about the games, just like having a Mac is all about the software (lots of people, including myself and my brother, are only buying a Mac for iLife).

- PS3? I'm thinking Grand Tourismo 5.
- XBox Next? I'm thinking Halo 3.
- Nintendo Revolution? I'm thinking Metroid, Zelda, Pikmin. (Oh, and Mario, of course :rolleyes: )

- I hate Halo (it's great but nothing I've never seen on a PC before, console-only gamers are easily impressed).
- I don't like racing games (though GT4 looks incredible even on a PS2).
- I like Metroid and Zelda games. If I need a Nintendo Revolution to play those games, so be it. I see consoles as being the peripherals to the games I want to play.

As long as Nintendo makes good games, I'll buy them. I'd just rather not have to play them on another console, especially Microsoft.

[Jovian9]

When the next gen-consoles are out I'm positive I will buy the Revolution and possibly the PS3. The Xbox has just not interested me at all up to this point. Here are some things I'd like to see happen in these consoles:

-The Gamecube needs more game developers period...that's a big one.

-The PS3 and Xbox2 need controller overhauls. I absolutely hate the PS controllers ( you absolutely cannot keep their controllers in good shape when you play games that require hard work on the analog....Tiger Woods) and the Xbox controllers are too big. They look like bigger Dreamcast controllers without the VMU's. Someone should incorporate the VMU's from Segas design into their controllers. Those are awesome when you are playing games against other people on the same television. The current Gamecube controllers are awesome, probably my favorite of all time.

-The Xbox2 and PS3 need to be smaller and designed a bit more stylish (and not that razor thin looking revision). I have a receiver, dvd player, (soon a Mac Mini:) )vhs player, 25 disc changer, and a dvr/hd box next to my TV (along with the Gamecube). The PS2 was out of place when it was there and the Xbox is almost as big as my Pioneer 25 disc changer...that's way too big).

-All 3 need backwards compatibility with the previous disc generations of their consoles.

I will buy any console that is good and puts out fun/good games....including a m$ Xbox. I'm not anti-anybody when it comes to video games. I've owned every major system (Nintendos, Ataris, Commodores, Colecos, Segas, Playstations, etc.) since Atari (except for the Xbox and the Atari Handheld thing). Right now Nintendo puts out games that provide the most fun.

[Mav451]

Considering I've been a PC FPS purist (think UT-UT2k4, CS, Quake), Halo 1 or 2 is a joke to be on the console. The last shooter I played on the console was GoldenEye, and my god, that was in a league of its own at that time (1997? Wow).

In terms of Xbox controllers, I believe the smaller ones were released in the US, e.g. the "Japanese" or regular sized ones (not "American" sized, HAHAHA). If you've used those, they are...manageable.

Kind of like the Sega Genesis controller (the big clunky one) was, until they introduce the smoother models.

The reason I play GC mostly is b/c of the 4-player mode. Its fun as hell.
It was Smash (about 1.5 - 2 years ago), and mostly last year, Double Dash. I've easily played 6 hours of Battle Mode (bombs)...and that was awesome, including the trash talking between friends =)

The PS2 is mostly for NCAA Bball or GT series (3 and now 4). Other than that, the PS2 is rarely used. MvC2 was fun...but man, I wish the original MvC was released on systems OTHER than Dreamcast. Oh well, the last of the good fighters bites the dust. *sniff*

Anyway, in the same way that Apple keeps on sticking around, Nintendo will too. There are ALWAYS babies being produced, so that kiddie crowd will always be there for Nintendo. Games for the older crowd, I'll admit, are important, but the NintenDork (and I mean that in a good way) generation will always be there to buy it up.

[Symtex]

Well, so what if Nintendo ends up #3, far behind the two others? As long as they're profitable they shouldn't be concerned. Just like we shouldn't worry about Apple not having 50% of the computer marketshare (unless the other 50% gets so infected with worms that the internet itself becomes unusable).

Also, I don't see why you "don't believe in Nintendo anymore". I agree with you on the N64, that thing just sucked (most blurry 3D graphics I've ever seen, I get headaches just looking at N64 games for 3 minutes). Hated the controller too.

I don't agree with you on the Gamecube though. It's a very powerful system, and the next Zelda will be another proof of that. And it's got my prefered controller too (here's hoping Nintendo doesn't screw up for the Revolution controller design, I want something comfortable for average hands, not good that looks good on a shelf).

Even if the PS3 and Xbox Next end up with superior hardware (which I don't think will happen after reading a previous post), it's all about the games as I said earlier.

Game consoles are at about the same point as computers are. You can upgrade the speed, have prettier graphics and add more stuff to it, but we're reached a hardware peak which, beyond that, doesn't matter much (for our current idea of gaming, anyway). It's all about the games, just like having a Mac is all about the software (lots of people, including myself and my brother, are only buying a Mac for iLife).

- PS3? I'm thinking Grand Tourismo 5.
- XBox Next? I'm thinking Halo 3.
- Nintendo Revolution? I'm thinking Metroid, Zelda, Pikmin. (Oh, and Mario, of course :rolleyes: )

- I hate Halo (it's great but nothing I've never seen on a PC before, console-only gamers are easily impressed).
- I don't like racing games (though GT4 looks incredible even on a PS2).
- I like Metroid and Zelda games. If I need a Nintendo Revolution to play those games, so be it. I see consoles as being the peripherals to the games I want to play.

As long as Nintendo makes good games, I'll buy them. I'd just rather not have to play them on another console, especially Microsoft.

I agree with the controller part except the "Z" button and the "C" stick. The rest is very comfortable. I don't think there is any problem with the gamecube hardware wise except the Media they used. They should stick to industry standard instead of using propriatery format that no one wants to work with. I remember they said before the gamecube came out that : " No one will ever need more then 1.5g of space for a game". It's total lack of vision.

Metroid Prime and Zelda are the best game if not the only good game on gamecube. The lack of third party support has killed the nintendo gamecube.

I hate Microsoft has much as the next guy but I have to admit I love their console very much. The game they have is the one I want. I can understand why it might not please anyone and I can't argue with that. Some love old style 2d shooters, some loves japanese RPG's, some love Action games or some loves sport games.

[Drgnhntr]

I happen to like the fact that gamecube disks are small. It made sense for their smaller console and at the time 1.5GB disks was way more space compared to N64 carts. Nintendo had vision, it was just to make a smaller form factor console, cheaper and prevent piracy. I know of only a few games that have had to have multiple disks (third age, RE) and I wasn't bothered by compressed movies or changing disks.

I would think that Nintendo would do the same thing with revolution except use HD-DVD. This would allow them to again have a small form console. Its disks would be the same size as the old gamecube's, allowing the possibility of backwards compatibility. I think it would be smart on Nintendo's part to be backward compatible, but does anyone know how they could do it? I would think that with all the processing power packed into revolution that it could emulate gamecube hardware if needed.

As for carts, I don't think Nintendo really liked those due to the piracy issue. One of the rumors I heard for the moved up release date of the next gameboy was so they could get away from carts. All the rumors are hard to keep track of, but the one I found most interesting was that the next gameboy would be similar to the gamecube in specs and use small optical disks. My immediate thought/wish was that the next gameboy would be able to play gamecube disks. I don't know if nintendo would or can do this, but it would give the next GB a huge library on launch as well as alleviate pressure to make the revolution backwards compatible. It is a long shot, I know, but I can hope. :)

[GFLPraxis]

I'm quite amuse by some of your believe. It's alright. It's true Nintendo is alot like Apple. So it's fair to say that if Nintendo follow the same road, they will have a small market share but continue to be profitable.

I'm just amused by his posts, the way they are written brings a chuckle.

Don't forget, though, Apple was in 2003 the third-place PC. Remember, hardware is a world with hundreds of competitors, a 5% market share is huge.

I remember the 2003 stats, Dell = 15%, HP = 10 or 7% or something like that, Apple had 5 and was third place. In a world with a hundred competitors, thats HUGE. With only two competitors, even being in last place Nintendos market share will be a lot bigger.

[GFLPraxis]

You really think publishers have manufacturing facilities? Of course not. They pick a manufacturer and send them the data and CD artwork. They also don't print their own books, etc.

Besides, there's already Gameboy SP and Nintendo DS carts. And there is (was?) N-Gage carts, special PSP discs in plastic cases, etc.

Cartridges on a handheld make sense, fast loading times when you're on the go and not having to worry about carrying bulky disks that can get scratched are huge bonuses.

Consoles don't have the same worries. You don't mind waiting five seconds for a game to load on the GameCube (though the 20 second load times on some XBox and PS2 games are annoying).

Think about it: if the capacity was there and prices were pretty much the same, I'd rather have carts than discs. Near-zero loading times makes for a much better gaming experience.

Oh, same here. I also advocate carts for handhelds, one of the things I don't like about the PSP.

But its not the same for consoles. The capacity and price are NOT the same. $300 for a 4 GB cart vs...$1 for a 9 gig DVD?

[GFLPraxis]

Oh please for the love of everything that's pure and holy, NO.

That's like telling you that Apple and Microsoft are cooperating and Windows Longhorn will in fact be OS X 10.4 (and Apple is getting out of the hardware business).

Which is why I rolled my smily face eyes ;)

Ironically enough, the other day I met a guy who thought that Microsoft was switching to UNIX with Longhron :rolleyes:

[GFLPraxis]

Even if the PS3 and Xbox Next end up with superior hardware (which I don't think will happen after reading a previous post), it's all about the games as I said earlier.

Well, we know that the XBox Next and Revolution will have the same ATi graphics card (unless the Revolution comes several months later, which would give the Revolution an even better one), so no way the XBox Next is going to have better graphics (with the exception of processor speed, which isn't a big difference).

I suspect the PS3 will have the fastest hardware, because:
A) Cell processor will mean it probably will have the fastest processor
B) Both Nintendo and MS are launching their systems before Sony, so its the last one to come out.

The PS3 is going NVidia, so we'll see who's graphics card is faster, though.

But yeah, XBox and Rev. will be on an equal playing field.

- PS3? I'm thinking Grand Tourismo 5.
- XBox Next? I'm thinking Halo 3.
- Nintendo Revolution? I'm thinking Metroid, Zelda, Pikmin. (Oh, and Mario, of course :rolleyes: )

Gran Turismo 5 has already been mentioned by the publishers, and they're considering realistic graphics.

Halo 3 was hinted to to people who beat Halo 2 (from what I've heard), it even gave a date IIRC.

You forgot Super Smash Bros, the all time best selling game for both the N64 and GameCube. Nintendo would have to be STUPID not to release one.

- I hate Halo (it's great but nothing I've never seen on a PC before, console-only gamers are easily impressed).

Ditto, I can't stand dual joysticks. The only shooter game I like is Metroid Prime, which only uses one. Oh, and PC shooters. Jedi Academy and Star Wars Battlefront own.


- I don't like racing games (though GT4 looks incredible even on a PS2).

Ditto, the only racing game I ever loved was Burnout 3. I'm trying to get someone I know with a PS2 to buy it so I can play it :p It's only PS2 and XBox.

Burnout 4 is supposed to be for all three consoles though. It might be next gen.

GT3 is pretty good, I've played it a few times. But I mostly hate racing games.

[GFLPraxis]

Err... Sounds like a PowerMac to me! When can I expect to run OS X and iLife on that? :D

Actually, I've been wondering that :D

I'm sure someone will come out with a hack (assuming it uses a normal disk drive!) to run Mac OS X on the Revolution, or at least Linux-PPC and Mac-On-Linux.

But I think it'd be a brilliant idea if Apple teamed up with Nintendo. They could release a version of OS X in a package that includes an Apple keyboard that plugs into the controller slots (gyroscopic controller can be used as mouse). That OS X would be compiled optimized for the EXACT hardware of the Revolution, giving it stellar performance.

$300 for a Revolution, $150 for NintenOS X and the keyboard. $450 gets you a fully functioning computer system.

It could be Apple's way of getting a Mac in every home, and getting people hooked on their software! Perhaps offer a discount on iLife '06 for people who purchase NintendOS X ($50 instead of $70?). They'd sell lots of copies.

You're going to say that this setup is a little crazy, but think about it. When new consoles come out, companies USUALLY sell them at a small loss to make it up in software. On the other hand, computer companies sell computers at a GAIN.

The Mac Mini probably only costs $250 to build. When you thinkabout it, this would be brilliant- Nintendo takes a loss on the hardware while Apple makes money off the software. That allows for much cheaper Mac systems, and Apple still makes considerable profit. Then when people want to upgrade, they get a REAL Mac :) And both Apple and Nintendo profit on software.

Here's my conspiracy theory of the week, thanks for reading :D

[GFLPraxis]

Metroid Prime and Zelda are the best game if not the only good game on gamecube. The lack of third party support has killed the nintendo gamecube.



Woah woah woah. What?

I have tons of third party games.

I have both Rogue Squadron 2 and 3, the Clone Wars, some Sonic games from Sega, and plenty more.

Plus Super Mario Sunshine, which, despite the kiddiness of the story is VERY challenging.

And my buddy has Mario Kart DD, GREAT fun.

And I have Super Smash Bros, and of course theres Zelda and Metroid. Zelda and Metroid are not "the only good games"!

But Nintendo did make big blunders in third party support (which they admitted), which is why we saw Burnout 3 for PS2 and XBox and Star Wars Episode 3 for PS2 and XBox :(

[PixelFactory]

The Mac Mini probably only costs $250 to build.

The Apple Mini's profit margin is about 19% So it should cost a little above $400 to build.

[Yvan256]

But its not the same for consoles. The capacity and price are NOT the same. $300 for a 4 GB cart vs...$1 for a 9 gig DVD?

Remember, 300$US is for a 4GB flash cart. Who knows how low it would be for a ROM cart. Surely not 300$. More expensive than discs, but as I said the Gameboy SP and Nintendo DS both use carts, and their games are priced lower than GC games (which are discs).

Granted, we're talking about at least 4 to 8 times more ROM, but I believe it could still be possible (both technically and financially).

What lowers the quality of gaming? Choppy graphics (i.e. low FPS) and waiting for the system to load data. A strong CPU+GPU, lots of RAM and a cart-based system would fix those two main technical problems.

I won't be surprised if the Nintendo Revolution uses carts. But then again I'm not betting on it.

[Yvan256]

Which is why I rolled my smily face eyes ;)

Ironically enough, the other day I met a guy who thought that Microsoft was switching to UNIX with Longhron :rolleyes:

Oh man, the last thing we'd need is FUD from MS about how Longhorn will be better than UNIX. <g>

[Yvan256]

But I think it'd be a brilliant idea if Apple teamed up with Nintendo. They could release a version of OS X in a package that includes an Apple keyboard that plugs into the controller slots (gyroscopic controller can be used as mouse). That OS X would be compiled optimized for the EXACT hardware of the Revolution, giving it stellar performance.

$300 for a Revolution, $150 for NintenOS X and the keyboard. $450 gets you a fully functioning computer system.

It could be Apple's way of getting a Mac in every home, and getting people hooked on their software! Perhaps offer a discount on iLife '06 for people who purchase NintendOS X ($50 instead of $70?). They'd sell lots of copies.

You're going to say that this setup is a little crazy, but think about it. When new consoles come out, companies USUALLY sell them at a small loss to make it up in software. On the other hand, computer companies sell computers at a GAIN.

The Mac Mini probably only costs $250 to build. When you think about it, this would be brilliant- Nintendo takes a loss on the hardware while Apple makes money off the software. That allows for much cheaper Mac systems, and Apple still makes considerable profit. Then when people want to upgrade, they get a REAL Mac :) And both Apple and Nintendo profit on software.

Here's my conspiracy theory of the week, thanks for reading :D

I'd rather see Apple join forces with Nintendo than Sony. Both companies have kind of the same vision (user before hardware), the same goal for quality over quantity, etc.

And heck, it would increase the installed base of OS X, and make unaware switchers in the process.

However, from what I've "seen" from the Macworld 2005 presentation, Apple and Sony are more likely to join forces someday.

Though they do compete in music and computers. Nintendo, however, doesn't do anything to take from Apple, and vice-versa. Nintendo and Apple are complementary to each other. And it would shut the "no games on Mac" PC users. ;)

Take the best computer company in the world, merge it with the best videogame company in the world. Can't imagine what the result would be.

However, westerners see Nintendo as "kid's play", and it would hurt Apple's image (even if only short-term). "Mac OS X? Dude, Nintendo uses that, it's an OS for kids games. Let's use a business-class OS like Microsoft Windows instead."

In that view, a merger with Sony (who already makes computers, audio/video stuff, etc) is more likely (both companies are strong in multimedia fields).

Maybe, maybe OS X on PS3. Who knows. We'll just have to wait and see.

[BubbaJones]

I don't think that gyro-controllers are going to be the thing. I've used something similar on a PC. It was a MS Sidewinder Freestyle. It worked fine, I just felt silly moving my controller around like that.

I'd love to see wireless controllers standard. Maybe 4 ports on the front to make a total of 8 possible controllers (4 wired/ 4 wireless). Maybe add support for 2 displays. Sometimes 3/4 people on a 32" tv gets cramped. If I could hook up a second display I think I would. I'd drop $100 on a cheap 27" tv if I could use it.

I'd like to see some sort of online play. Someone mentioned the Revolution being able to become a mini-server. That would be great! What we need is it to be free online play. That would draw a huge crowd. Built in wireless would be great. Instant connectivity with the DS and maybe the GBA2.

I'd like to see some built in mass storage. The memory cards are good to bring saved games to a friends house, but they get filled up too quickly.

I'd like backwards compatibility. This is what gave the PS2 a quick advantage when it came out.

I'd like Nintendo to keep the small foot print. The system is so much smaller then the others. It really fits well into my entertainment center.

I'd like them to keep the same controllers. I think the design works very well. I like it the best of the three consoles.

I'd like to see a wicked Halo killer. More multiplayer Co-op games. I'm tired of just arena style shoot-em ups. I want to play through a story, not just blow the hell out of my buddies. I also don't want to be forced to connect one of the portable units to the console in order to get the multiplayer Co-op game. It should be built in.

I've played all the consoles, and I choose the Gamecube. I am perfectly happy with the hardware. I think that the graphics are the best. RE4 shows what you can do with this little cube. Starfox was pushing 60fps during the flight sequences. They have the power, they just lost developer support due to the kiddie friendly image. What I don’t like is the lack of multiplayer games. Dynasty Warriors, Halo, etc. I know that there are a few games out there, but the only one that comes close to what I want is Mystic Hero’s.

Anyway, that’s my ideas on what Nintendo might have in store.

[GFLPraxis]

The Apple Mini's profit margin is about 19% So it should cost a little above $400 to build.

Does that include the software given away (easily worth over $200)?

[GFLPraxis]

I'd love to see wireless controllers standard. Maybe 4 ports on the front to make a total of 8 possible controllers (4 wired/ 4 wireless). Maybe add support for 2 displays. Sometimes 3/4 people on a 32" tv gets cramped. If I could hook up a second display I think I would. I'd drop $100 on a cheap 27" tv if I could use it.

What about a cheap 27" HDTV? It's supposed to have HDTV hookups. At 1080i resolutions (or heck, even MUCH lower, 720i for example or less), HDTV has a whopping 6.75 times as many pixels on the screen as a normal TV.
1920x1080 vs 640x480!

Best Buy sells 27" HDTVs for a mere $400, and since my sister works there now I could probably get one for $200 :)

With that much more on the screen, in four player split screen each player would still have more detail than an ordinary TV! No more squinting :D


Anyway, that’s my ideas on what Nintendo might have in store.

Very interesting ideas!

[GFLPraxis]

Something I wanted to mention. You said that you hated split-screen, right?

What about wireless? Aka, your friend brings over his Revolution and TV, set them next to each other, bam, two screen wireless. Its a LAN party, but no wires needed :D

[Drgnhntr]

Something I wanted to mention. You said that you hated split-screen, right?

What about wireless? Aka, your friend brings over his Revolution and TV, set them next to each other, bam, two screen wireless. Its a LAN party, but no wires needed :D

This could be huge in college dorms if the range on the revolution was sufficient to span a few rooms. Anything that would make revolution appeal to an older audience is a good thing.

[applekid]

My only problem with every console appearing to use some sort of PPC chip and two of the three leaning towards ATI graphics chipsets is how are the manufacturers of the chips keep up with demand?! :eek:

[Symtex]

Woah woah woah. What?

I have tons of third party games.

I have both Rogue Squadron 2 and 3, the Clone Wars, some Sonic games from Sega, and plenty more.

Plus Super Mario Sunshine, which, despite the kiddiness of the story is VERY challenging.

And my buddy has Mario Kart DD, GREAT fun.

And I have Super Smash Bros, and of course theres Zelda and Metroid. Zelda and Metroid are not "the only good games"!


You see I have no interest whatsoever in all the game you just mention. I have Mario Sunshine and I hated it. Mario Kart ? give me a break. This is exactly why I don't praise Nintendo anymore. Marios this, Mario that. Did you know that in the history of Nintendo 285 games are in the making or were made with Mario. Talk about milkin a franchise. Not for me.

[GFLPraxis]

You see I have no interest whatsoever in all the game you just mention. I have Mario Sunshine and I hated it. Mario Kart ? give me a break. This is exactly why I don't praise Nintendo anymore. Marios this, Mario that. Did you know that in the history of Nintendo 285 games are in the making or were made with Mario. Talk about milkin a franchise. Not for me.

Both EGM and GamePro gave Mario Kart DD a 10/10. Most sites gave it a 9.0, I believe the LOWEST ANYWHERE was 7.5. Average of 30 sites was 9.0.

Mario Kart is an awesome game (and has been around with SNES).

Don't diss the game just because others have had the same name.

Okay, I admit Mario Golf is milking it, but I've seen GLOWING reviews of Mario Power Tennis. 285 Mario games? I think thats a little teensy bit of an exagguration :p Or at least nowhere NEAR that many were released (maybe some were cancelled?).

If the games are extremely good, who cares if they make a lot of them? Every single one of them are completely different- no two Mario games are alike, with the exception of remakes (Mario 64 and Mario DS, or Mario 3 GBA, are examples).

Come on, apply that reasoning to Apple.
"Mac this, Mac that! Apple sticks the Mac name on everything! Mac OS 8, Mac OS 9, Mac OS X, PowerMac, iMac, eMac, Mac Mini, etc, etc! They're milking the franchise!"

;)

Can't have too much of a good thing...

And BTW, for all your anti-Mario ranting...I only listed TWO Mario games. Out of 10 games (Clone Wars, RS2, RS3, SMS, MKDD, Sonic, Zelda: TWW, MP1, MP2).

[ioremac]

Before I discuss revolution I must first address the ignorance. The Nintendo gamecube and xbox are virtually tied. 18 million to 19 million. This could change one because xbox is selling only 300 units a week in japan while the gamecube around 5000. Two because Nintendo has taken the lead In France and Germany and taken second place in most of Europe. From the n64 era to now Nintendo has made over 4 billion dollars Sony has made 5 billion from gaming. Nintendo has 6 billion in pure surplus alone Sony is 60 billion in debt. The n64 had only 280 games the gamecube now has over 500. Nintendo has made inroads with third party's. The best selling game in January was Resident Evil 4 which is a mature third party game on the gamecube. The gamecube is not mostly kids Sony has that base covered.

Most kids like to be cool and thats why they own a ps2. The gamecube fanbase is made of up of hardcore gamers who grew up on Nintendo. Thats a problem since its mainstream gamers that make up most of the market. Nintendo's biggest problem is perception. Many say the xbox was a success even though its virtually tied with the gamecube and has cost Microsoft over 3 billion while they can gamecube a failure. This is due to perception. Nintendo is aware of this and this is why you see the new edgy designs of the ds and sp. O and to the people who say that that gameboy is why Nintendo is surviving thats a lie since gamecube accounts for 40 to 45% of their profits.

[Symtex]

Most kids like to be cool and thats why they own a ps2. The gamecube fanbase is made of up of hardcore gamers who grew up on Nintendo.

I like how Nintendo's fan always refer themself to being hardcore gamer but all the nintendo go have very simple gameplay mechanism except for SMS which what hard has hell.

Well I think about hardcore game, I think about Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden. Games that requires a great amount of skills to complete. I also love games like Neverwinter night, Knight of the old republic and Jade Empire which none of the gamecube had in his line up.

I think gamecube is a great second console if you already own a Playstation or an xbox. Nintendo makes great software and should go 3rd party like Sega did.

[applekid]

ioremac, you bring up good points. Nintendo is really financially safe compared to its competition and competition is quite tight on global perspective. Heck, my Nintendo stocks haven't fallen since I purchased them a year or two ago. They haven't really jumped like say, Apple, but, they've made modest gains and survived. I can't say the same for Sony and Microsoft, but I remember they aren't solely game companies.

There still is work needed on Nintendo's image though. One third party game that's particulary mature that comes once in a while isn't enough to make Nintendo successful. Nintendo lost a bit of third party and second party support. Factor 5 left for the X-Box depriving us of Rogue Squadron. Rare got sold, but that paid off :D Sega doesn't make its sports games for the GameCube. And EA is still sided with Sony slightly more than Nintendo. And how many games got delayed and eventually cancelled, or slimmed down for the GameCube? (i.e: Splinter Cell, Burnout 3, etc.) So, Nintendo's third party and second party still took lots of hits. They have some work to do.

People see Mario as a "kiddie" franchise, so the insults come and seem to be harming Nintendo. However, I don't think Nintendo should ditch Mario completely. How do you explain how well all of the Mario games do well on the handhelds? And, reviewers still give great reviews for these new Mario games. Mario Golf and Mario Tennis really made golf and tennis not boring. Heck, I play tennis with my dad on weekends. Sounds effective to me.

I don't think they're milking Mario too much but, I think Nintendo has a ton of franchises they should start pushing into the limelight and putting Mario in the backseat. Bring some more Zelda, Smash Bros., Metroid, etc. These franchises that aren't childish, but not so violent that it still reaches a wide audience. I go back to how sports games are very popular because anybody can play them no matter what age. Nintendo has franchises that can do just the same.

I was also thinking about what the controller system for Revolution could be. How about motion reading devices? Think, playing Zelda, you make a sword slashing movement to make Link attack. It gets the players active and no need to hold a controller. I do wonder how willing gamers will be to standing up and moving around though. Perhaps you can sit down and still move around? I don't know. But motion sensors to some degree would be interesting. I think it's better than gyroscope controllers. But, Nintendo could surprise us with a very refined and easy to use controller system based on past technology.

As long as Nintendo has learned from their lessons and doesn't take too many outrageous risks with Revolution, I think they'll be fine.

[ioremac]

I like how Nintendo's fan always refer themself to being hardcore gamer but all the nintendo go have very simple gameplay mechanism except for SMS which what hard has hell.

Well I think about hardcore game, I think about Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden. Games that requires a great amount of skills to complete. I also love games like Neverwinter night, Knight of the old republic and Jade Empire which none of the gamecube had in his line up.

I think gamecube is a great second console if you already own a Playstation or an xbox. Nintendo makes great software and should go 3rd party like Sega did.

What I meant by hardcore is not casual gamer which makes up most of the market. Heck even studies prove this.

Results from Phoenix Marketing International’s continuous tracking of gamers indicate that almost two hours per day are devoted to electronic gaming in U.S. households.


Whether playing via a PC, console or handheld device, a substantial portion of free time is spent gaming. Individuals participating in this market research survey personally spend approximately five hours per week gaming, while all other members in the household spend about eight hours per week.

Results of this market research study also indicate that households with Nintendo GameCubes spend significantly more time playing video games than households with other systems, such as the Sony PS2 or Microsoft Xbox. "With recent news from industry analysts predicting so-so sales this year, the findings from this research are excellent news," stated David Pluchino, Senior Research Manager. "This indicates that consumers are not done with gaming, they may just be bored with what is currently available," added Pluchino.

[ioremac]

ioremac, you bring up good points. Nintendo is really financially safe compared to its competition and competition is quite tight on global perspective. Heck, my Nintendo stocks haven't fallen since I purchased them a year or two ago. They haven't really jumped like say, Apple, but, they've made modest gains and survived. I can't say the same for Sony and Microsoft, but I remember they aren't solely game companies.

There still is work needed on Nintendo's image though. One third party game that's particulary mature that comes once in a while isn't enough to make Nintendo successful. Nintendo lost a bit of third party and second party support. Factor 5 left for the X-Box depriving us of Rogue Squadron. Rare got sold, but that paid off :D Sega doesn't make its sports games for the GameCube. And EA is still sided with Sony slightly more than Nintendo. And how many games got delayed and eventually cancelled, or slimmed down for the GameCube? (i.e: Splinter Cell, Burnout 3, etc.) So, Nintendo's third party and second party still took lots of hits. They have some work to do.

People see Mario as a "kiddie" franchise, so the insults come and seem to be harming Nintendo. However, I don't think Nintendo should ditch Mario completely. How do you explain how well all of the Mario games do well on the handhelds? And, reviewers still give great reviews for these new Mario games. Mario Golf and Mario Tennis really made golf and tennis not boring. Heck, I play tennis with my dad on weekends. Sounds effective to me.

I don't think they're milking Mario too much but, I think Nintendo has a ton of franchises they should start pushing into the limelight and putting Mario in the backseat. Bring some more Zelda, Smash Bros., Metroid, etc. These franchises that aren't childish, but not so violent that it still reaches a wide audience. I go back to how sports games are very popular because anybody can play them no matter what age. Nintendo has franchises that can do just the same.

I was also thinking about what the controller system for Revolution could be. How about motion reading devices? Think, playing Zelda, you make a sword slashing movement to make Link attack. It gets the players active and no need to hold a controller. I do wonder how willing gamers will be to standing up and moving around though. Perhaps you can sit down and still move around? I don't know. But motion sensors to some degree would be interesting. I think it's better than gyroscope controllers. But, Nintendo could surprise us with a very refined and easy to use controller system based on past technology.

As long as Nintendo has learned from their lessons and doesn't take too many outrageous risks with Revolution, I think they'll be fine.

I agree 100% nintendos biggest problem is image which frankly I think they have learned looking at the design and launch color of the ds and sp. O you havent heard sega dropped their sports lineup. Nintendo is making their own baseball game(which proves that they are adapting) They are also making a fps named geist. I believe nintendo is making strides in third party surport and will continue to. I remeber that the fomer nintendo president forbid square from developing on their systems this has changed thnx in part to the new president. A lot of work needs to be done esp. image wise but I believe nintendo can change its image and regain some of their old marketshare.

[BubbaJones]

What about a cheap 27" HDTV? [snip]

Best Buy sells 27" HDTVs for a mere $400, and since my sister works there now I could probably get one for $200 :)


With a house payment, and a 2 year old kid it would be hard to convince my dear wife to get anything over $100. Anyway if I had my way I'd get a DLP projector and have a 70" screen :eek: .

However, if you would like to contribute the hardware I'd be more then happy to try it. :D :D

[GFLPraxis]

I agree 100% nintendos biggest problem is image which frankly I think they have learned looking at the design and launch color of the ds and sp. O you havent heard sega dropped their sports lineup. Nintendo is making their own baseball game(which proves that they are adapting) They are also making a fps named geist. I believe nintendo is making strides in third party surport and will continue to. I remeber that the fomer nintendo president forbid square from developing on their systems this has changed thnx in part to the new president. A lot of work needs to be done esp. image wise but I believe nintendo can change its image and regain some of their old marketshare.
Yet another thing that Nintendo has in common with Apple.
"Macs suck!"
sound familiar? ;)

http://cube.ign.com/articles/591/591150p1.html

Interesting read, they state what their mistakes with the GameCube were. That includes lack of online play support, bad third party support and launch titles, and bad color choice for the GameCube (purple).

[GFLPraxis]

With a house payment, and a 2 year old kid it would be hard to convince my dear wife to get anything over $100. Anyway if I had my way I'd get a DLP projector and have a 70" screen :eek: .

However, if you would like to contribute the hardware I'd be more then happy to try it. :D :D


Put away $50 a month. By the time the next generation consoles are out you should have that HDTV. :D

[Yvan256]

My only problem with every console appearing to use some sort of PPC chip and two of the three leaning towards ATI graphics chipsets is how are the manufacturers of the chips keep up with demand?! :eek:

Why do you think there's no PowerMac updates? :rolleyes:

[Yvan256]

http://cube.ign.com/articles/591/591150p1.html

Interesting read, they state what their mistakes with the GameCube were. That includes lack of online play support, bad third party support and launch titles, and bad color choice for the GameCube (purple).

Tell me about it. I'm sure glad the GameCube is available in black!

Purple... Silver.... yeurk.

Black, White, Dark Blue, Dark Red. Serious colors that don't look like toys.
(ok, ok - black and white aren't "colors", I know).

[kuyu]

I was also thinking about what the controller system for Revolution could be. How about motion reading devices? Think, playing Zelda, you make a sword slashing movement to make Link attack. It gets the players active and no need to hold a controller. I do wonder how willing gamers will be to standing up and moving around though. Perhaps you can sit down and still move around? I don't know. But motion sensors to some degree would be interesting. I think it's better than gyroscope controllers. But, Nintendo could surprise us with a very refined and easy to use controller system based on past technology.

The gyro's are motion sensors. They are highly sophisticated, and 10x more accurate than accelerometers. The Segway uses gyros to measure it's orientation and thereby balance itself. Airplanes, satellites, torpedos, etc. use gyros for navigation purposes because they are so accurate.


As far as the design of the Revolution, we can assume a small form factor. The Japanese will have nothing less (actually, more). I would expect that the Mac Mini is an inspirational piece for Nintendo's engineers.

Now, given "Sir Gates" obsession with 'digital convergence' I can all but promise the xbox2 will connect to the WMP music store. That being said, Sony and Nintendo would be crazy not to have something similar in their products. Sony owns a music store (connect), nintendo does not. Given the Power architecture of the revolution, I can think of one company that is capable of providing the revolution with such a feature... Apple.

There is absolutely no reason why Apple wouldn't create a console version of iTunes, especially if it will sync with other computers (windows or mac). They would barely have to tweak the current iTunes code.

I found this video that demos a possible technology the revolution will incorporate. Unlikely, but a good demonstration of the potential of new gaming styles... It's a real media clip, sorry:(

http://sonix.sdv.fr:8080/ramgen/arte/tracks/20040603/immersion.rm

If you'll notice, anything can be laid in on top of the real environment. All the tech needs to work is two cameras! With a gyro controlled headset, you would see zelda's adventure in 3D on your floor!!!

[GFLPraxis]

The gyro's are motion sensors. They are highly sophisticated, and 10x more accurate than accelerometers. The Segway uses gyros to measure it's orientation and thereby balance itself. Airplanes, satellites, torpedos, etc. use gyros for navigation purposes because they are so accurate.


As far as the design of the Revolution, we can assume a small form factor. The Japanese will have nothing less (actually, more). I would expect that the Mac Mini is an inspirational piece for Nintendo's engineers.

Now, given "Sir Gates" obsession with 'digital convergence' I can all but promise the xbox2 will connect to the WMP music store. That being said, Sony and Nintendo would be crazy not to have something similar in their products. Sony owns a music store (connect), nintendo does not. Given the Power architecture of the revolution, I can think of one company that is capable of providing the revolution with such a feature... Apple.

There is absolutely no reason why Apple wouldn't create a console version of iTunes, especially if it will sync with other computers (windows or mac). They would barely have to tweak the current iTunes code.

I found this video that demos a possible technology the revolution will incorporate. Unlikely, but a good demonstration of the potential of new gaming styles... It's a real media clip, sorry:(

http://sonix.sdv.fr:8080/ramgen/arte/tracks/20040603/immersion.rm

If you'll notice, anything can be laid in on top of the real environment. All the tech needs to work is two cameras! With a gyro controlled headset, you would see zelda's adventure in 3D on your floor!!!


Especially if the Revolution could sync music via wireless with your Mac or PC :)

As for that video, I've seen it, but suspect fake. The car went behind an object on the desk- how did the camera know that was in front of the rest of the table?

[kuyu]

Especially if the Revolution could sync music via wireless with your Mac or PC :)

As for that video, I've seen it, but suspect fake. The car went behind an object on the desk- how did the camera know that was in front of the rest of the table?

It's real. I've seen three other videos demoing this tech. There are two cameras. I've got an 80mb avi on my desktop that shows how it works.

[BrianKonarsMac]

The PS3 will have the bluray drive which makes an inroad for HD-DVD. I think it will be more like the PS2 in this feature.


blu ray and hd-dvd are competing standards, blu ray being an evolutionary step, hd-dvd being an incremental step (to avoid new production lines).

[Drgnhntr]

http://cube.ign.com/articles/593/593733p1.html

Brings up an interesting issue about third party support. If the revolution is too different (which the article basically says it is) then third parties will have to spend more time/money to make games for it. Ports across all three systems have been relatively easy this generation considering all the consoles use similar input devices. If the specs for revolution are so different it may be impossible to port a number of games. A publisher would have to choose to make a revolution only game, or a PS3 and XBOX2 game.

So that leaves the chance that Nintendo will have a lot of third party exclusives, or none at all. Or if any games are ported they may not use any of revolution's, revolutionary features. :(

[PixelFactory]

blu ray and hd-dvd are competing standards, blu ray being an evolutionary step, hd-dvd being an incremental step (to avoid new production lines).

My bad. What I ment to say is that the PS3 uses blu ray to get it into more homes and get that format used for high definition movies instead of HD-DVD.

[Fukui]

Especially if the Revolution could sync music via wireless with your Mac or PC :)

Or just forget memory cards and save your games to an iPod...
What was that thing the dreamcast had that had alittle screen on the
memory card? It would be cool to organize your saves and stuff with the ipod...

[GFLPraxis]

My bad. What I ment to say is that the PS3 uses blu ray to get it into more homes and get that format used for high definition movies instead of HD-DVD.

But if MS and Nintendo put HD-DVD into homes... ;)

[GFLPraxis]

I found some interesting pictures...
these might be Super Mario 128:

http://www.totalvideogames.com/tvgadmin/content/imagedata/40035.jpg
http://www.totalvideogames.com/tvgadmin/content/imagedata/40036.jpg

I dunno, I kinda hope it isn't. I was hoping the Mario 64 sequel would be a Revolution launch title (as rumored), but those graphics look distinctly GameCube, and in fact, Mario looks exactly like the Mario from Super Mario Sunshine.

Luigi being in it is new though!

[Ringo]

Something that would be cool is if a memory card could be integrated on the controller (even if the revolution may come w/a HD) so if you go play at some friend house you would only have to bring your controller and you would have all your saves/profile.

[slippingaway]

one thing i wish ppl would stop bashing nintendo for is the use of mario, zelda, metroid, etc. do u really want to see those guys go? i dont understand the points of saying its a rehash, doesnt make any sense. didnt mario 64 revolutionize how games were played by making mario fully 3d with the introduction of the analog stick? i dont remember mario bros. for snes being 3d. same name but so what? u can call halo marathon in the future, does it really make a difference what its called? its how its played. get ur facts straight, i see a lot of shooting of the mouth and not so much thinking with the mind. dont u realize that nintendo is one of the most important leaders in the gaming industry even if its not making all the money? sony did not have an analog stick till after nintendo released it, sony did not have the rumble pack till after star fox came out. nintendo was the first system with a real online play. the japanese had a satelite sytem for their super famicoms. if you look at sony and microsoft (both good companies) they're not half the innovators that nintendo is. now thats not a bash, so dont get on the defensive with me. but i have a alot of respect for nintendo with sticking with their integrity and releasing what they feels works. sure they had a lot of weird ideas, but thats awesome. theyre a company with no fear. and they will continue on for a long time, cause they're artists. screw what the ppl want, give them something they never knew and cant live without once u show them. ipod anyone? it's going to be a really interesting e3 this year though to say the least. those systems are prob going to be a fortune :S remember how much they were 4 years ago?
(oh and i know u can say microsoft is innovative by introducing a hard drive to game consoles. but if u look at the history, microsoft has been using direct x and hard drives for their games long before the xbox. makes sense that they'd stay with the same format. i will say though that the xbox is the best modd system i've ever owned. so much fun modding that thing)

[GFLPraxis]

one thing i wish ppl would stop bashing nintendo for is the use of mario, zelda, metroid, etc. do u really want to see those guys go? i dont understand the points of saying its a rehash, doesnt make any sense. didnt mario 64 revolutionize how games were played by making mario fully 3d with the introduction of the analog stick? i dont remember mario bros. for snes being 3d. same name but so what? u can call halo marathon in the future, does it really make a difference what its called? its how its played. get ur facts straight, i see a lot of shooting of the mouth and not so much thinking with the mind. dont u realize that nintendo is one of the most important leaders in the gaming industry even if its not making all the money? sony did not have an analog stick till after nintendo released it, sony did not have the rumble pack till after star fox came out. nintendo was the first system with a real online play. the japanese had a satelite sytem for their super famicoms. if you look at sony and microsoft (both good companies) they're not half the innovators that nintendo is. now thats not a bash, so dont get on the defensive with me. but i have a alot of respect for nintendo with sticking with their integrity and releasing what they feels works. sure they had a lot of weird ideas, but thats awesome. theyre a company with no fear. and they will continue on for a long time, cause they're artists. screw what the ppl want, give them something they never knew and cant live without once u show them. ipod anyone? it's going to be a really interesting e3 this year though to say the least. those systems are prob going to be a fortune :S remember how much they were 4 years ago?
(oh and i know u can say microsoft is innovative by introducing a hard drive to game consoles. but if u look at the history, microsoft has been using direct x and hard drives for their games long before the xbox. makes sense that they'd stay with the same format. i will say though that the xbox is the best modd system i've ever owned. so much fun modding that thing)

Not to mention that the PS2 had an external hard drive (and a Linux kit, with a hard drive with Linux preinstalled, and a keyboard and mouse!) on Sony's site for sale long before the XBox came out.

[johnnyjibbs]

I found some interesting pictures...
these might be Super Mario 128:

[SNIP - For images, see post a little bit above]

I dunno, I kinda hope it isn't. I was hoping the Mario 64 sequel would be a Revolution launch title (as rumored), but those graphics look distinctly GameCube, and in fact, Mario looks exactly like the Mario from Super Mario Sunshine.

Luigi being in it is new though!
I thought Mario 128 was always intended to be a GameCube title. If these shots are proper ones, then they are definitely GameCube ones. Since I hadn't heard anything about Mario 128 for so long I was sort of expecting it to evolve into the Revolution launch title (just as Super Mario 64 2 ended up being Super Mario Sunshine for GameCube). Hopefully these shots indicate that it is still in existence and on course for a GameCube release still.

[Symtex]

one thing i wish ppl would stop bashing nintendo for is the use of mario, zelda, metroid, etc. do u really want to see those guys go? i dont understand the points of saying its a rehash, doesnt make any sense. didnt mario 64 revolutionize how games were played by making mario fully 3d with the introduction of the analog stick? i dont remember mario bros. for snes being 3d. same name but so what? u can call halo marathon in the future, does it really make a difference what its called? its how its played. get ur facts straight, i see a lot of shooting of the mouth and not so much thinking with the mind. dont u realize that nintendo is one of the most important leaders in the gaming industry even if its not making all the money? sony did not have an analog stick till after nintendo released it, sony did not have the rumble pack till after star fox came out. nintendo was the first system with a real online play. the japanese had a satelite sytem for their super famicoms. if you look at sony and microsoft (both good companies) they're not half the innovators that nintendo is. now thats not a bash, so dont get on the defensive with me. but i have a alot of respect for nintendo with sticking with their integrity and releasing what they feels works. sure they had a lot of weird ideas, but thats awesome. theyre a company with no fear. and they will continue on for a long time, cause they're artists. screw what the ppl want, give them something they never knew and cant live without once u show them. ipod anyone? it's going to be a really interesting e3 this year though to say the least. those systems are prob going to be a fortune :S remember how much they were 4 years ago?
(oh and i know u can say microsoft is innovative by introducing a hard drive to game consoles. but if u look at the history, microsoft has been using direct x and hard drives for their games long before the xbox. makes sense that they'd stay with the same format. i will say though that the xbox is the best modd system i've ever owned. so much fun modding that thing)


I would suggest using ponctuation and paragraph. Its help the readers. alot of Nintendo fans are going to be dissapointed with the so called "Revolution". Remember who told you first.

[GFLPraxis]

I would suggest using ponctuation and paragraph. Its help the readers. alot of Nintendo fans are going to be dissapointed with the so called "Revolution". Remember who told you first.

Yeah, it would have been nicer to read with punctuation and a paragraph, but that doesn't make the points wrong.

You seem to have an anti-Nintendo bias, Symtex. You seem convinced no matter what Nintendo does that the Revolution will fail.

[Symtex]

Yeah, it would have been nicer to read with punctuation and a paragraph, but that doesn't make the points wrong.

You seem to have an anti-Nintendo bias, Symtex. You seem convinced no matter what Nintendo does that the Revolution will fail.

I agree that my view might be a bit harsh. I think i'm upset at Nintendo for the N64 and the gamecube. I am an owner of the gamecube but only bought 2 games. I have over 30 xbox games and 15 ps2 games.

I think Nintendo believe they cannot compete in the same market of Sony and Microsoft. This is why they are going a different way. "Revolution" will be the console for solitaire / bejeweled / mahjong type of players.

[Mav451]

"mahjong" players? You mean people my parents age? Or my relatives in Taiwan/China/California? I don't get it.

BTW, I love mahjong ;)

[Symtex]

"mahjong" players? You mean people my parents age? Or my relatives in Taiwan/China/California? I don't get it.

BTW, I love mahjong ;)

no group age intented. I meant more oriented for people who likes those type of gamers compare to FPS, Racers and Sports

[Mav451]

...snip..
I have over 30 xbox games and 15 ps2 games.


Well that explains it all. It would take an infinite # of generations of my family, distant relatives, friends, and cousins to come up with 30 xbox games.

How many Xbox games do my friends, relatives, cousins, etc. have?

0.

The only game I'd even consider buying is Halo, but again, in comparison to PC shooters (Source, DoD, BF1942, Raven Shield, UT2k4), it is...not worth the investment. More worth it to find the guy down the hall (at least last year anyway) with that game.

[Symtex]

Well that explains it all. It would take an infinite # of generations of my family, distant relatives, friends, and cousins to come up with 30 xbox games.

How many Xbox games do my friends, relatives, cousins, etc. have?

0.

The only game I'd even consider buying is Halo, but again, in comparison to PC shooters (Source, DoD, BF1942, Raven Shield, UT2k4), it is...not worth the investment. More worth it to find the guy down the hall (at least last year anyway) with that game.

I like sport and race games. It the majority of my library. add to that Kotor, PSO Online, Fable and Halo 2 (my only shooter that I bought).

[GFLPraxis]

Sport and race games. My least favorite (excepting Burnout 3) :(

[pizzach]

Sounds like you people who hate the GameCube and say it's an utter failure are missing one of the most useful things about it: The games are cheap! The exact opposite of the Nintendo 64. Classics like Prince of Persia came down on price so much quicker than on the other two consoles. :) I feel kind of sorry for most third party companies on the GameCube...

On the topics actual topic:
Definitely no touch screen. Nintendo already said that. Maybe a built in mic. The gyriscope idea seems plausible. It would be nice if bongos were built into the controler. Maybe on the back side so that when you aren't using them you don't have to have them staring you in the face.

Most games on the Gamecube made HORRIBLE use of the analog L and R buttons on the Gamecube controller. So, I can't see them returning next generation unless implimented differently. The gamecube controller is great, but it is also an example of how having a pretty different design makes ports horrible. I hope revolution avoids this for the most part.

I feel the D-pad is officially is dead. (Still waiting for Jobs to say this though) The N64 had a good D-pad that was never used. The GameCube has a horrible one that was hard to not hit diagnal on. I actually think that a number of games would be better played with the Dpad, but the option is rarely actually there, oddly enough. Who needs analog in RPGs for example? Soul Calibur is a good example of a game that makes good use of the D-Pad. You wip people's butts who use analog.

Well that is all I have to say for now. I can't actually think of anything inovative that Nintendo might come up with that hasn't already been said.

[GFLPraxis]

PS2ers might disagree. I rarely ever played PS2 until my sister got Burnout 3. Thing is, the position of the D-pad makes it much more convenient to play with than the joystick, so most PS2ers end up using the D-pad.

Bongos on the controller might be interesting, but I can't see how useful they would be except as a gimmick for a couple of games.

[GFLPraxis]

Hey guys, I got some REAL info this time :D not just a rumor.

Apparently...
In June 2004 Nintendo engineer Genyo Takeda said: "You'll be able to play [Revolution] not just by linking up to a television but to a computer monitor as well." (quoting IGN)


Could this mean DVI or VGA ports?

Would it be possible to hook up a HDTV AND Computer monitor?

[pizzach]

Hey guys, I got some REAL info this time :D not just a rumor.

Apparently...
In June 2004 Nintendo engineer Genyo Takeda said: "You'll be able to play [Revolution] not just by linking up to a television but to a computer monitor as well." (quoting IGN)


Could this mean DVI or VGA ports?

Would it be possible to hook up a HDTV AND Computer monitor?


I thought this was a long known fact.... ;) It could probably do both through mirroring. I mean, how long has the Powerbook line done this?

[GFLPraxis]

I thought this was a long known fact.... ;) It could probably do both through mirroring. I mean, how long has the Powerbook line done this?

I wonder if you could play with split-screen, as in one player on one screen and one on another?

Perhaps if it ran at TV resolution instead of HD...

[pizzach]

I wonder if you could play with split-screen, as in one player on one screen and one on another?

Perhaps if it ran at TV resolution instead of HD...

That would kick ars. But this is NINTENDO you're talking about. The people who took out the digital video out from the back of the GameCube halfway through it's lifespan.

[Ringo]

Tell me about it. I'm sure glad the GameCube is available in black!

Purple... Silver.... yeurk.

Black, White, Dark Blue, Dark Red. Serious colors that don't look like toys.
(ok, ok - black and white aren't "colors", I know).

Back in black :cool:

(now we just need some AC/DC canon shot or hell bells :D )

[GFLPraxis]

Girly colors...another self admitted one of Nintendo's many mistakes with the GameCube...

[kuyu]

BREAKING NEWS: I found a couple of patents from Nintendo for a Golf game. They're really wordy, but from what I can gather, one of the launch titles for revolution will be a golf game in which you actually "swing" the controller to hit the ball. I really don't see how this will work without a headset, but that's just me.

I'm beginning to think that the Revolution will hook up to a TV and a headset (TV and monitor out are confirmed). If the headset acts as a sort of heads-up display (not a new technology, my step-mom's grand prix has one), you would have two vantage points in each game.

This would be really cool. I'm an avid golfer (although terrible at the game), and from experience, golfers will drop ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY on golf stuff. There goes the "nintendo is for kids" argument... ;)

[GFLPraxis]

BREAKING NEWS: I found a couple of patents from Nintendo for a Golf game. They're really wordy, but from what I can gather, one of the launch titles for revolution will be a golf game in which you actually "swing" the controller to hit the ball. I really don't see how this will work without a headset, but that's just me.

I'm beginning to think that the Revolution will hook up to a TV and a headset (TV and monitor out are confirmed). If the headset acts as a sort of heads-up display (not a new technology, my step-mom's grand prix has one), you would have two vantage points in each game.

This would be really cool. I'm an avid golfer (although terrible at the game), and from experience, golfers will drop ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY on golf stuff. There goes the "nintendo is for kids" argument... ;)

I can see how it might work without a headset. Think of a normal controller with a gyroscope- the camera centers right behind the ball, with the bottom of the golf club showing and moving with your controller.

You swing it just right and the ball flies. No headset needed.

But either way, it sounds EXTREMELY cool.

[GFLPraxis]

Guess what- the Nintendo Revolution has built in wireless, confirmed.

My prediction #4 is correct!

http://cube.ign.com/articles/594/594834p1.html

And we're committed to wireless interactive play for DS. Mr. Iwata will have some information about that in his keynote speech. In terms of GameCube, I think in fairness we at Nintendo haven't done a great job of providing the Internet capability tools to our developers to create games for GameCube. We need to address that for all of our future systems and we're doing that. In terms of Revolution and its wireless capability, stay tuned -- more to come. We are absolutely committed to the sense of community and the worldwide sense of playing games against each other. We're going to be delivering that on every future system to the best of our ability.

This also mostly confirms my prediction #5, although he didn't specificly say whether it would support online out of the box or not, he did say it would support online play via wireless.

[Sol]

I think that the Revolution of Nintendo's next console will be controllers with touch sensitive displays. This way a lot of the ideas developed on the DS could be implemented into the new console.

I can imagine multiplayer games would be a lot more fun because the element of secrecy would play a big role with such hardware. For example imagine a first person shooter where the controller displays each player's point of view and the television displays scores and instant replays.

As for the touch-screen element, this would make games more interactive. Drawing and writing with a stylus would be something new for consoles. Dare I hope for Sketching Of The Dead? Seriously, a lot of non-gamers would have fun playing this way.

Finally, the controller could have a (FireWire?) port for other peripherals like microphones, cameras, gyroscopes, etc. I see these as non-essentials that could be included with specific games, much like the bongo drums were included with Donkey Conga.

If Nintendo offers such a system I for one would choose it over the competition, regardless of graphics capability, Blue-Ray DVD, internet, etc.

[GFLPraxis]

I think that the Revolution of Nintendo's next console will be controllers with touch sensitive displays. This way a lot of the ideas developed on the DS could be implemented into the new console.

I can imagine multiplayer games would be a lot more fun because the element of secrecy would play a big role with such hardware. For example imagine a first person shooter where the controller displays each player's point of view and the television displays scores and instant replays.

As for the touch-screen element, this would make games more interactive. Drawing and writing with a stylus would be something new for consoles. Dare I hope for Sketching Of The Dead? Seriously, a lot of non-gamers would have fun playing this way.

Finally, the controller could have a (FireWire?) port for other peripherals like microphones, cameras, gyroscopes, etc. I see these as non-essentials that could be included with specific games, much like the bongo drums were included with Donkey Conga.

If Nintendo offers such a system I for one would choose it over the competition, regardless of graphics capability, Blue-Ray DVD, internet, etc.

I don't think thats going to happen- IIRC, Nintendo already stated their would be no screens on the controllers. :(


HOWEVER- Reggie has stated their will be wireless connectivity with the DS. So I highly suspect there will be some games released that will allow you to use your DS as a controller!

That will be cool :D

[Drgnhntr]

Guess what- the Nintendo Revolution has built in wireless, confirmed.

My prediction #4 is correct!

http://cube.ign.com/articles/594/594834p1.html



This also mostly confirms my prediction #5, although he didn't specificly say whether it would support online out of the box or not, he did say it would support online play via wireless.

With all the possible features everyone is discussing for the next gen consoles, I was wondering, how many of these features will be available out of the box?

This is good news that wireless is built in, but how many other features will you have to pay for as add-ons. Assuming that the console will come with one controller, will additional revolutionary controllers be $40+ each? How about high defenition, will you need to buy propriety cables to connect to a DVI or component monitor? DVD playback remote? Hard Drive? VR goggles? etc...

I know all three companies are going to do this to some degree, but it just sort of occurred to me that revolutionary stuff is usually more expensive. If the xbox next and PS3 use the same controllers as their predessesors, that will save the people who already own them a bit of cash. I think it is given that with Nintendo Revolution, players will need to start from scratch.

[BubbaJones]

Nintendo President Satoru Iwata revealed and confirmed many details about the Nintendo Revolution:

* He confirmed that IBM is working the CPU, codenamed "Broadway", and that it is near completion.
* ATI is working on the GPU (graphics processing unit), codenamed "Hollywood".
* The Revolution WILL be backwards compatible with the Nintendo Gamecube.
* It will be Wi-Fi compatible from launch.

Out of the box Wi-Fi is great. Instant connetivity with the DS! Backwards compatibility is also a very cool thing. Makes it easier to transition to a new console. Plus you can sell the old one and still keep your games.

I can't wail till May, when they finally show the system,

[Jeromie]

Iwata's keynote at the Game Developer's Conference revealed (and confirmed) some interesting facts:

1) Revolution is Wi-Fi enabled out of the box.
2) Revolution is backwards compatible with Gamecube games. Big news! I hadn't heard anthing on this before. If it works with GC games, then that probably also means it will have the ability to use a controller that is standard enough that typical 3rd party games can still be designed for all three systems. That's even more important that backwards compatiblity, in my opinion.
3) Confirmed IBM and ATI as partners, though I think pretty much everyone already knew this.

http://cube.ign.com/articles/594/594935p1.html

By the way, the gyroscopic golf game sounds cool. I already thought the analog stick powered Tiger Woods PGA tour series was *much* improved from the "click while a bar moves back and forth." Using a gyrocopic sensor doesn't sound like a huge conceptual link forward. It would be interesting to see how this capability could be used in other genres. Will all those beginners who move the conroller whenever the want Mario to jump finally be justified?

[GFLPraxis]

With all the possible features everyone is discussing for the next gen consoles, I was wondering, how many of these features will be available out of the box?

This is good news that wireless is built in, but how many other features will you have to pay for as add-ons. Assuming that the console will come with one controller, will additional revolutionary controllers be $40+ each? How about high defenition, will you need to buy propriety cables to connect to a DVI or component monitor? DVD playback remote? Hard Drive? VR goggles? etc...

I know all three companies are going to do this to some degree, but it just sort of occurred to me that revolutionary stuff is usually more expensive. If the xbox next and PS3 use the same controllers as their predessesors, that will save the people who already own them a bit of cash. I think it is given that with Nintendo Revolution, players will need to start from scratch.

I don't know about controllers, but I think gyroscopes are pretty cheap since Wario Ware Twisted has one in the cartridge.

For cables, I don't know. Nintendo has always had cables with a proprietary connector, BUT has ALWAYS included them when you buy the consoles. And that was for the TV, we don't know what they'll do for DVI output.

The Hard Drive is rumored to be internal.

DVD playback is reasonable, since we know that:
A) HD-DVD is compatible with DVD
B) Whether or not they use HD-DVD, we know it can play GC games which are DVD disks.

[Sol]

Whether or not they use HD-DVD, we know it can play GC games which are DVD disks.

I have read that GameCube discs are based on the DVD standard but they have one crucian difference: the drive reads the discs from the outside towards the middle. Nintendo could use the same technology on full-size discs if it wants a backwards compatible format with more storage space than before.

[GFLPraxis]

I have read that GameCube discs are based on the DVD standard but they have one crucian difference: the drive reads the discs from the outside towards the middle. Nintendo could use the same technology on full-size discs if it wants a backwards compatible format with more storage space than before.

So they'll have HD-DVD disks that read from the outside toward the middle.
That won't be much of a problem, except that it'll kill piracy pretty well.
Although the HD-DVD format is designed to do just that.

[GFLPraxis]

Okay, I'm bringing an old thread back up instead of making a new one on the same subject.

The latest issue of GameInformer claimed that an informant claimed the Revolution Dev Kits instructed them to program for touch screens in the controllers, and make virtual buttons. And IIRC that the controller would have no buttons.

I don't know how accurate this is. It seemingly contradicts the explicit statements that "We have no intention of making a dual screened console like the DS" Nintendo made.

It also contradicts rumor #2 (which I never believed anyway) on IGNCube, and isn't at all mentioned in the leaked info in rumor #1.

It also would make a wireless controller either:
A) Have a short battery life
B) Be expensive and use a Lithium-Ion battery.

I could see it alongside buttons (say, a touch screen or pad in the big empty section of my Wavebird controller in the middle), but instead of buttons? How do you play GameCube games?

Perhaps he didn't give all the information and there'd be a touch screen in ADDITION to buttons? Dunno. Still seems wrong.

Me, I'd love to see a touch pad in addition to buttons, it'd be awesome for FPS. But touch screen, I don't want to see. I would really rather not have to use a stylus for a console. With the pad, no worries about smudges. Not so with a screen.

[Sol]

I could see it alongside buttons (say, a touch screen or pad in the big empty section of my Wavebird controller in the middle), but instead of buttons? How do you play GameCube games?

If the next Nintendo console uses the same ports for controllers, a GameCube gamepad would be needed for backwards compatibility. This would be similar to the X-Box requiring a DVD remote to play DVDs on the console.

As for the touchpad, I think it is a brilliant idea (that I suggested on the MacRumours forum a few weeks ago). Nintendo has stated that it wants to make gaming more accessible to non-gamers and a touchpad/small display would be a good way to do that. Users could not only have analogue controls but also be able to write and draw. The possibilities are endless. Having said that, a d-pad would still be usefull next to the touchpad, if only for Metroid DS-like controls for other FPS games.

[GFLPraxis]

If the next Nintendo console uses the same ports for controllers, a GameCube gamepad would be needed for backwards compatibility. This would be similar to the X-Box requiring a DVD remote to play DVDs on the console.

As for the touchpad, I think it is a brilliant idea (that I suggested on the MacRumours forum a few weeks ago). Nintendo has stated that it wants to make gaming more accessible to non-gamers and a touchpad/small display would be a good way to do that. Users could not only have analogue controls but also be able to write and draw. The possibilities are endless. Having said that, a d-pad would still be usefull next to the touchpad, if only for Metroid DS-like controls for other FPS games.

The problem I see is that you either have to use a stylus, or risk smudging the screen. :(

I'd rather have a touchpad than a touch screen because of this.

[applekid]

The only reason I still don't see a touchscreen as feasible is because of costs. If we're talking about something the size of the DS screen, than maybe Nintendo can sell it for under $40. But, that's not all that useable for gaming, having a screen that small.

Also, look at controller prices of all of the consoles (the official controllers anyway). None go above $35, the WaveBird being the most priciest, looking at retail prices. I any serious gamer has the money or willing to put down $40 or more on each spare controller.

And, one last thing... Now that we know Revolution will be backwards compatible, how can Nintendo still keep GameCube games play like GameCube games with whatever their control mechanism is? Remember, no A and B buttons (not all buttons are completely gone. But there will be no A and B buttons). Weren't they getting rid of the D-Pad as well? Hmmm...

Gotta love Nintendo with their cryptic messages. You know, it might be healthy for some more hype to build for Revolution. The PS3 and Xenon have "leaks"/"rumors" on nearly a daily basis. Revolution... Takes about a month for anything useful to show up.

[GFLPraxis]

The only reason I still don't see a touchscreen as feasible is because of costs. If we're talking about something the size of the DS screen, than maybe Nintendo can sell it for under $40. But, that's not all that useable for gaming, having a screen that small.

Is it possible they could sell it for cheaper, if they use the console itself to render whats on the screen instead of including a processor in the controller?

Look at the GBA SP...Processor + memory + battery + BIOS + whatever graphics chip + screen = $79.

How much of that is the screen? I dunno.

But I highly doubt Nintendo would sell controllers for $40. Whether that means they'll sell the controllers at a loss, or will have a cheap way to make screens, or that the "touchscreen on controller" rumor is just plain wrong, I dunno.




And, one last thing... Now that we know Revolution will be backwards compatible, how can Nintendo still keep GameCube games play like GameCube games with whatever their control mechanism is? Remember, no A and B buttons (not all buttons are completely gone. But there will be no A and B buttons). Weren't they getting rid of the D-Pad as well? Hmmm...


Yup, another reason I find this questionable. But GameInformer reports it almost as fact... :confused:

[Drgnhntr]

Okay, I'm bringing an old thread back up instead of making a new one on the same subject.

The latest issue of GameInformer claimed that an informant claimed the Revolution Dev Kits instructed them to program for touch screens in the controllers, and make virtual buttons. And IIRC that the controller would have no buttons.

Me, I'd love to see a touch pad in addition to buttons, it'd be awesome for FPS. But touch screen, I don't want to see. I would really rather not have to use a stylus for a console. With the pad, no worries about smudges. Not so with a screen.

I think the key to the statement is virtual buttons. Nintendo says they will be backwards compatible, and yet not have traditional A or B buttons. I think with a touch pad and a little programing, you can make the controller have any number of buttons or joystick configurations. A, B, X, Y in the exact same configuration as on the gamecube controller displayed on a touch screen. Plug in another game, get another set of buttons. Put another touch screen on the other side and you have a completely customizable controller. As long as Nintendo includes a couple of shoulder buttons I think it would be a great controller.

Battery life would be an obstacle too, but one I think they could solve. Maybe work out a recharging dock or something. If plugged in after every play session, it would only need a battery life of about 10-20 hours.

I don't know how they would do this and keep costs down. Nintendo was talking big about a new user interface, and this might be it. They may sell the controllers at a loss.

[ravenvii]

I think the key to the statement is virtual buttons. Nintendo says they will be backwards compatible, and yet not have traditional A or B buttons. I think with a touch pad and a little programing, you can make the controller have any number of buttons or joystick configurations. A, B, X, Y in the exact same configuration as on the gamecube controller displayed on a touch screen. Plug in another game, get another set of buttons. Put another touch screen on the other side and you have a completely customizable controller. As long as Nintendo includes a couple of shoulder buttons I think it would be a great controller.

Battery life would be an obstacle too, but one I think they could solve. Maybe work out a recharging dock or something. If plugged in after every play session, it would only need a battery life of about 10-20 hours.

I don't know how they would do this and keep costs down. Nintendo was talking big about a new user interface, and this might be it. They may sell the controllers at a loss.

That idea sucks. Try doing that without looking down at the touchpad. You have to feel the buttons and feel them being pressed.

[GFLPraxis]

I think the key to the statement is virtual buttons. Nintendo says they will be backwards compatible, and yet not have traditional A or B buttons. I think with a touch pad and a little programing, you can make the controller have any number of buttons or joystick configurations. A, B, X, Y in the exact same configuration as on the gamecube controller displayed on a touch screen. Plug in another game, get another set of buttons. Put another touch screen on the other side and you have a completely customizable controller. As long as Nintendo includes a couple of shoulder buttons I think it would be a great controller.

Battery life would be an obstacle too, but one I think they could solve. Maybe work out a recharging dock or something. If plugged in after every play session, it would only need a battery life of about 10-20 hours.

I don't know how they would do this and keep costs down. Nintendo was talking big about a new user interface, and this might be it. They may sell the controllers at a loss.

Excuse me, but...
YUCK!
I would hate that, unless they have some new system of popping up the screen so you get physical feedback. Have you tried to hit the small buttons in Metroid Prime Hunters? You sometimes have to try a couple times. Luckily you rarely need to use them.

[Drgnhntr]

Excuse me, but...
YUCK!
I would hate that, unless they have some new system of popping up the screen so you get physical feedback. Have you tried to hit the small buttons in Metroid Prime Hunters? You sometimes have to try a couple times. Luckily you rarely need to use them.

Actually i was basing my thoughts on metroid hunters. I quite like the control that the touch pad gives you. I too was slightly annoyed at trying to hit the buttons on the bottom of the screen, but I feel that was more because I have to move my thumb from where it was comfortably aiming my gun, to streching to hit the buttons. My beef with the DS is that the thing just doesn't seem to fit your hands well and get a full range of motion.

I am not the one getting rid of traditional A and B buttons, Nintendo is. I feel Nintendo is probably the only company out there that can make a totally different controller work and feel natural. Until E3 I don't think anyone will know if Revolution is the best thing to happen to games or the worst. Quite possibly, if you prefer buttons to play games you may have to get an xbox 2 or PS3.

[Dagless]

whilst Metroid Hunters is probably the single greatest way to control an FPS without a mouse, i do think the touchpad controllers are a bad idea. but you never know with nintendo. this gives them entirely new concepts of player interaction. like switching from Windows to Mac, its taking the old well-known method of doing things and putting something new and fresh in the players dirty mits.

Personally ive been thinking how a smash bros could be done with touch pads. hmm.

well whatever, so long as it becomes 2nd nature and the good ol' long running series appear again ill be very happy indeed :D

my mind is still to be made up with a new form of game interaction. but knowing Nintendo they probably can pull it off.

[GFLPraxis]

Why do you need a screen for MP:H? It could be done just by taking a Wavebird and putting a TouchPAD from a PowerBook in the middle of it.

Hm, I wonder if thats it? Perhaps the Revolution has a touchpad? This would make more sense- you wouldn't need to use a stylus, you could use your thumb, but still get Metroid Prime Hunters style accuracy. It also fits with rumor #1, when he stated he wouldn't say what the Revolutionary part is, but its an existing technology that has never been applied to gaming. Touch...pads!

Maybe the GameInformer people got confused with screen and pad...

[Drgnhntr]

Why do you need a screen for MP:H? It could be done just by taking a Wavebird and putting a TouchPAD from a PowerBook in the middle of it.

Hm, I wonder if thats it? Perhaps the Revolution has a touchpad? This would make more sense- you wouldn't need to use a stylus, you could use your thumb, but still get Metroid Prime Hunters style accuracy. It also fits with rumor #1, when he stated he wouldn't say what the Revolutionary part is, but its an existing technology that has never been applied to gaming. Touch...pads!

Maybe the GameInformer people got confused with screen and pad...

I think a touch pad alone on the controller would be the most plausible thing. I think having to use a stylus or even that thumb band would alienate too many people and it is cheaper.

The reason I wouldn't completely write off the screen portion is that without tradition buttons, a screen could provide a number of virtual buttons. Also, Nintendo seems to have a fascination with splitting information over multiple screens. They did it with the DS, and with the GBA gamecube link (crystal chronicles and four swords). I don't know if Nintendo got the hint that the GBA link didn't really work most of the time.

[pahecko]

Something I wanted to mention. You said that you hated split-screen, right?

What about wireless? Aka, your friend brings over his Revolution and TV, set them next to each other, bam, two screen wireless. Its a LAN party, but no wires needed :D

Naw, forget tv's, you're friends can bring 21" Apple displays, because NR will not only output to TVs but monitors as well. Couple that with the WiFi NR will have and you have the makings of a nice little lan party ;)

[GFLPraxis]

Naw, forget tv's, you're friends can bring 21" Apple displays, because NR will not only output to TVs but monitors as well. Couple that with the WiFi NR will have and you have the makings of a nice little lan party ;)

And hook up two extra TV's so other people sitting far away can watch :D

[GFLPraxis]

I think a touch pad alone on the controller would be the most plausible thing. I think having to use a stylus or even that thumb band would alienate too many people and it is cheaper.

The reason I wouldn't completely write off the screen portion is that without tradition buttons, a screen could provide a number of virtual buttons. Also, Nintendo seems to have a fascination with splitting information over multiple screens. They did it with the DS, and with the GBA gamecube link (crystal chronicles and four swords). I don't know if Nintendo got the hint that the GBA link didn't really work most of the time.

Virtual buttons doesn't work too well. Without the ability to FEEL the buttons, you have to look down at the screen to find them. Furthermore, touchscreens can only accept one input at once I believe (unless you're going to hold two styluses or wear two thumbstraps ;) ) so how could you move the virtual joystick AND buttons? Or how would you do the joystick and C-stick? You might say the developers just won't include the C-stick, but what about GameCube games, it's backwards compatible remember?

[pahecko]

Virtual buttons doesn't work too well. Without the ability to FEEL the buttons, you have to look down at the screen to find them. Furthermore, touchscreens can only accept one input at once I believe (unless you're going to hold two styluses or wear two thumbstraps ;) ) so how could you move the virtual joystick AND buttons? Or how would you do the joystick and C-stick? You might say the developers just won't include the C-stick, but what about GameCube games, it's backwards compatible remember?

Perhaps the use of texture (slightly textured) and raised touch pads that are also pressure sensitive? Imagine swingings Link sword anyway you want but simply "rubbing" the attack button that way (ie, if i want to slice upward motion i'd make the same motion with my thumb.) Who knows. I don't think it's as radical as might be implied like moving the controller around to move my character.

EDIT: As for the vitrual joystick, I can't realling imagine what would controll better then the current versions... perhaps a track ball?

[chromex]

I guess we know Symtex won't be buying a Revolution unless he can pirate games.

m

[DavidLeblond]

Why do you need a screen for MP:H? It could be done just by taking a Wavebird and putting a TouchPAD from a PowerBook in the middle of it.

Hm, I wonder if thats it? Perhaps the Revolution has a touchpad? This would make more sense- you wouldn't need to use a stylus, you could use your thumb, but still get Metroid Prime Hunters style accuracy. It also fits with rumor #1, when he stated he wouldn't say what the Revolutionary part is, but its an existing technology that has never been applied to gaming. Touch...pads!

Maybe the GameInformer people got confused with screen and pad...

gaaaahhhh no touchpads! It makes sense for the DS because its a portable system, but judging by all the times I've tried to play games on my iBook with my touchpad... not a good idea for a game console.

Just ship the system with a mouse! Hey it wouldn't be the first Nintendo system that you could use a mouse on!

[GFLPraxis]

gaaaahhhh no touchpads! It makes sense for the DS because its a portable system, but judging by all the times I've tried to play games on my iBook with my touchpad... not a good idea for a game console.

Just ship the system with a mouse! Hey it wouldn't be the first Nintendo system that you could use a mouse on!


Actually, I beat Jedi Knight 2 with a touchpad on my old iBook. While in the car on a road trip. Worked fine!

[GFLPraxis]

Perhaps the use of texture (slightly textured) and raised touch pads that are also pressure sensitive? Imagine swingings Link sword anyway you want but simply "rubbing" the attack button that way (ie, if i want to slice upward motion i'd make the same motion with my thumb.) Who knows. I don't think it's as radical as might be implied like moving the controller around to move my character.

EDIT: As for the vitrual joystick, I can't realling imagine what would controll better then the current versions... perhaps a track ball?


That could be interesting. At least it's not a smudgeable screen. That would work!

[pahecko]

That could be interesting. At least it's not a smudgeable screen. That would work!

Nintendo has said that they won't be using a touch screen.

What we have to go on is the info on Nintendo and Gyration Inc. Gyration Inc + Nintendo (http://tinyurl.com/5a7wp)

Though, that would imply a pretty radical control scheme, which I don't think will be THAT radical.

Either way, I can't wait until E3 :D

[GFLPraxis]

Nintendo has said that they won't be using a touch screen.

What we have to go on is the info on Nintendo and Gyration Inc. Gyration Inc + Nintendo (http://tinyurl.com/5a7wp)

Though, that would imply a pretty radical control scheme, which I don't think will be THAT radical.

Either way, I can't wait until E3 :D

The post I was replying to was talking about a touch PAD with textured areas instead of buttons, not a screen.

[pahecko]

The post I was replying to was talking about a touch PAD with textured areas instead of buttons, not a screen.

Yea, sorry about that!

Any thoughts on Gyration Inc and Nintendo and what Nintendo article ?

[kuyu]

I know this is a revolution thread, but 1up posted an interesting interview with reggie in which he hints at the rumored GBE.

Here's the GBE part

1UP: What's up with the next GameBoy.

RFA: You know there's this massive rumor floating around the Internet...

1UP: But Nintendo has also said that the DS is a separate line than the GameBoy.

RFA: It is a separate line. We are always working on new innovations, always. Always. Uh, right now it is rumor and speculation that we're working on the new GBA. But we've always got things up our sleeve. So uh, wait for E3.


The link the entire article is below.
http://ds.1up.com/do/newsStory?pager.offset=2&cId=3138769

[Drgnhntr]

Nintendo has said that they won't be using a touch screen.

What we have to go on is the info on Nintendo and Gyration Inc. Gyration Inc + Nintendo (http://tinyurl.com/5a7wp)

Though, that would imply a pretty radical control scheme, which I don't think will be THAT radical.

Either way, I can't wait until E3 :D

That article was interesting. After reading that I am not confident that the revolution will sport any buttons.

I was trying to think of a way Nintendo could make their new controller work with older games or even ports of the other systems. I am not sure that they can do that and keep their new controller revolutionary. So I was thinking the easiest thing nintendo could do is make it so you can plug your old gamecube controllers into the revolution. Is this as simple as putting more ports on the front of revolution? Or can they use the same plug?

[GFLPraxis]

I know this is a revolution thread, but 1up posted an interesting interview with reggie in which he hints at the rumored GBE.

Here's the GBE part


The link the entire article is below.
http://ds.1up.com/do/newsStory?pager.offset=2&cId=3138769

Thats almost word for word what they said at E3 2004.

If a new GB is announced at E3, it had BETTER be a PSP competitor at $200 or so.

If it is a real GB at $99 to $150, that would suck oh so bad, because it would have about the same graphics as the DS and detract from it.

If it ends up having ultra graphics, that'd be fine- DS = new gaming experience + PDA features coming and GBE = PSP competitor with better battery life.

But if it ends up being lined up with the DS, they'll end up competing with each other.

[pahecko]

Thats almost word for word what they said at E3 2004.
If a new GB is announced at E3, it had BETTER be a PSP competitor at $200 or so.


I believe that is the reason for the new handled.


If it is a real GB at $99 to $150, that would suck oh so bad, because it would have about the same graphics as the DS and detract from it.


If Nintendo is smart, the price will be sub $200. It won't play movies or music. Just games, the way it should be and thus it naturally would be cheaper then PSP.


If it ends up having ultra graphics, that'd be fine- DS = new gaming experience + PDA features coming and GBE = PSP competitor with better battery life.

But if it ends up being lined up with the DS, they'll end up competing with each other.

It seems to me that the DS is more of a testing ground for other upcoming systems. To give developers a new platform for new games, using different' technologies (wiFi, voice and touch screen) to control and enhance games. It was a bold move to release the DS but it's paying off.

The GBE is going to replace GBA and since Nintendo has, thus far, kept DS from stepping on GBA toes, means that GBE and DS will continue that trend.

[GFLPraxis]

I believe that is the reason for the new handled.



If Nintendo is smart, the price will be sub $200. It won't play movies or music. Just games, the way it should be and thus it naturally would be cheaper then PSP.

It wouldn't cost a dime to add music and movie playback. All they have to do is use industry standard SD or CF cards for memory cards (this is the cheapest thing they could do), and add software support for AVI, MPEG, and MP3. Bam, instant cheap music player.

The GBA and DS have both already been turned into music and movie players by the homebrew community- buy a GBA flash cartridge and put a video or music file on it and see what I mean :)

I expect the price to be $200, but not more. Remember, GameCube hardware IS more powerful than PS2...

The PSP costs $250 over here, anyway. So $200 is not a problem.

If its under $200 it conflicts with DS. ALTHOUGH, if they wait until 2006 to release it, then they could probably sell it for $150 instead of $200 and the DS would be $100 by then.



It seems to me that the DS is more of a testing ground for other upcoming systems. To give developers a new platform for new games, using different' technologies (wiFi, voice and touch screen) to control and enhance games. It was a bold move to release the DS but it's paying off.

The GBE is going to replace GBA and since Nintendo has, thus far, kept DS from stepping on GBA toes, means that GBE and DS will continue that trend.


I agree. Right now its DS and GBA lines side by side, DS high end GBA low end, next it will be DS low end GBE high end.

I bet the GBE will come out when the DS hits $99.

[jaseone]

It wouldn't cost a dime to add music and movie playback. All they have to do is use industry standard SD or CF cards for memory cards (this is the cheapest thing they could do), and add software support for AVI, MPEG, and MP3. Bam, instant cheap music player.

Oh really, wouldn't cost a dime, eh? Extra hardware, firmware, software and licensing is free is it? Not to mention the extra design, development, QA control, testing etc etc that would need to be done.

[pahecko]

Well, we know Nintendo, they are not going to release GBE with music or movie support. They may sell additional hardware for it but it won't be built it.

My point : There is the GameBoy market and the DS market. It has little or nothing to do with the price ranges. This will continue with GBE (being that it is replacing GBA.) By then, yes, prices for the DS would have dropped but that doesn't have anything to do with the GB brand and where it comes into play.

As I said, the DS is a Developers System (hence DS), a platform in which they can use "new" technologies for games and see how the market takes it. What they'll learn (Nintendo and Developers) from it will be incorporated into the next gen hardware, GBE and Revolution. I don't think the DS like when necessarily continue. Not in a marketing sense, but it's technologies are going to be used in Nintendo's "cash cow" systems.

lol.. maybe I'm not making any sense, but this is what I'm getting from this whole DS and Gameboy thing. Though, if the DS becomes a cash cow, then of course they'll continue having 3 Systems. But thats what it'll be, 3 systems, 3 different markets.

Another take could be that the DS was simply meant to be a transitional system, something we could “play” with and fend of the PSP until the real deal comes out.

Ok, maybe it's both. Lol.. anyway, I apologize for the disjointed rant. ;)

[GFLPraxis]

Oh really, wouldn't cost a dime, eh? Extra hardware, firmware, software and licensing is free is it? Not to mention the extra design, development, QA control, testing etc etc that would need to be done.

Correction, it wouldn't cost an extra dime on PRODUCTION.

Yeah, adding some extra software on the existing firmware is free.
There's no extra hardware involved.
Developing it and testing it in the first place is NOT free, but its an initial cost, it doesn't add a dime to the price of each built.

[GFLPraxis]

Well, we know Nintendo, they are not going to release GBE with music or movie support. They may sell additional hardware for it but it won't be built it.

Don't be so certain. Nintendo has said they don't adopt the newest technologies when they feel its not easy for the user.

For example, they didn't put online play with their earlier consoles because at the time, people required some technical know-how to get their console running online.

However, now that we've reached the point one can walk in and go on a wireless network, Nintendo has gotten the picture and stuck online play on all their handhelds and consoles (DS and Revolution namely).

So perhaps they'll "get the picture" again and stick video playback on the GBE.