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mrsir2009
Apr 9, 2011, 03:34 PM
When Lion comes out will you be sticking with SL, upgrading to Lion or waiting and seeing what other features Lion has and for Apple to fix any glitches/compatibility issues?



calderone
Apr 9, 2011, 03:42 PM
Let's make this easy, no need for a poll.

Those who rely on their machine for work:
Will test on a separate machine and wait until things are clear. They may stick with Snow Leopard for quite a while.

Those who care about having the latest and greatest:
Will upgrade immediately.

kepner
Apr 10, 2011, 02:29 AM
Those who care about having the latest and greatest:
Will upgrade immediately.

…or already have.

iVeBeenDrinkin'
Apr 10, 2011, 02:35 AM
How can anyone answer this now? We have a few people on this forum that have tested Lion, and say they don't like it. Others say they do. From what I've heard, Lion and iOS 5 are supposed to take the idevice/Mac experience to the next level. Add to that, the inevitable cloud. An OS with cloud based storage and sharing, sounds great to me.

maflynn
Apr 10, 2011, 06:17 AM
I think you'll see the majority of respondents post that they want lion - its the latest thing from apple and most people here are apple fans so it stands to reason they'll want to upgrade.

Lord Appleseed
Apr 10, 2011, 06:31 AM
I will upgrade on my MacBook Air immediately, but i will wait a bit before upgrading on my iMac (until i know about possible bugs) since it is my Heavy-Duty- and Office-Mac.

maflynn
Apr 10, 2011, 06:44 AM
I'll stick with Snow Leopard. I see little incentive for me to upgrade to 10.7. There's really no feature that has tempted me.

mrsir2009
Apr 10, 2011, 01:35 PM
I'll stick with Snow Leopard. I see little incentive for me to upgrade to 10.7. There's really no feature that has tempted me.

Although I'm an Apple fan and want to have the latest OS on my MBP, I have to agree with you there. I might if I could slip it in without having to re-install all my stuff, but thats impossible. I can't be bothered putting all my software back on my MBP just for a minor upgrade...

stevemiller
Apr 10, 2011, 01:42 PM
where's the option for "time your next mac purchase so you get snow leopard for now, but qualify for an up-to-date copy of lion to have when bugs are ironed out/applications require it"? :p

i got burned by adopting snow leopard at launch, and i'm exceedingly leery of jumping onto a new os too soon. snow leopard still has some persistent issues fo me, so i'd probably try them both, see which is least painful and go with that..

mac1984user
Apr 10, 2011, 01:49 PM
I'm a bit hazy on something. Will I be able to *upgrade* from Snow Leopard to Lion, or will I have to do a complete reinstall? If the latter, that's going to really piss me off as I've just had to reinstall Snow Leopard. =/ And using a Time Machine backup isn't always an option when you want to rid yourself of a bunch of needless preferences and old program traces.

roadbloc
Apr 10, 2011, 03:11 PM
I'll see what Lion is like once Lion is actually released.

zeemeerman2
Apr 10, 2011, 04:02 PM
Although I'm an Apple fan and want to have the latest OS on my MBP, I have to agree with you there. I might if I could slip it in without having to re-install all my stuff, but thats impossible. I can't be bothered putting all my software back on my MBP just for a minor upgrade...

I'll stick with Snow Leopard. I see little incentive for me to upgrade to 10.7. There's really no feature that has tempted me.

So it seems... for some, they want the latest OS but don't really mind the features. They are as much excited for the new 10.6.x release as for 10.7, am I right?

Well, I'll give everyone who likes it a nice, warm Meh. (Like a hug, but then just... Meh)

Cougarcat
Apr 10, 2011, 04:05 PM
I'm a bit hazy on something. Will I be able to *upgrade* from Snow Leopard to Lion, or will I have to do a complete reinstall? If the latter, that's going to really piss me off as I've just had to reinstall Snow Leopard. =/ And using a Time Machine backup isn't always an option when you want to rid yourself of a bunch of needless preferences and old program traces.

You'll be able to upgrade.

Satori
Apr 10, 2011, 04:07 PM
It's too early to tell!

vincenz
Apr 10, 2011, 04:10 PM
No reason not to upgrade if you're the usual casual user.

dethmaShine
Apr 10, 2011, 04:27 PM
Now way I'm staying with Snow Leopard.

Lion is the way to go for me!

QuarterSwede
Apr 10, 2011, 04:45 PM
Although I'm an Apple fan and want to have the latest OS on my MBP, I have to agree with you there. I might if I could slip it in without having to re-install all my stuff, but thats impossible. I can't be bothered putting all my software back on my MBP just for a minor upgrade...
How can anyone answer this now? We have a few people on this forum that have tested Lion, and say they don't like it. Others say they do. From what I've heard, Lion and iOS 5 are supposed to take the idevice/Mac experience to the next level. Add to that, the inevitable cloud. An OS with cloud based storage and sharing, sounds great to me.
Exactly. It's basically going to be one of the most major upgrades to OS X. There isn't anything minor about it.

Apple OC
Apr 10, 2011, 04:51 PM
I will wait a few months after it is out ... Snow Leopard does everything I need right now so for me there is no rush for Lion

Embio
Apr 10, 2011, 05:13 PM
this question is faulty, it assumes we have one Mac each ;-)

mrsir2009
Apr 11, 2011, 12:52 AM
Exactly. It's basically going to be one of the most major upgrades to OS X. There isn't anything minor about it.

A minor GUI overhaul and a few new features isn't exactly a major OS upgrade IMO.

Tiger and Leopard - They were MAJOR upgrades. Tiger made OSX usable for tons and tons of people (myself included) and Leopard overhauled almost the entire OS. Lion doesn't do anything near that!

maclaptop
Apr 11, 2011, 01:07 AM
I'm taking a wait and see approach.

Thus far there's nothing in Lion of interest to me.

Lately the latest is not always the greatest if it comes from Apple.

Sad but true.

dethmaShine
Apr 11, 2011, 03:52 AM
A minor GUI overhaul and a few new features isn't exactly a major OS upgrade IMO.

Tiger and Leopard - They were MAJOR upgrades. Tiger made OSX usable for tons and tons of people (myself included) and Leopard overhauled almost the entire OS. Lion doesn't do anything near that!

Just a simple question -

Was Windows 7 a major upgrade over Vista?

OR

XP for that matter?

maflynn
Apr 11, 2011, 05:58 AM
Was Windows 7 a major upgrade over Vista?

The perception is a major upgrade but in reality, it was a minor (maybe medium). By that time, MS had righted the Vista ship, but it was too little too late, in the eyes of the consumer. Vista was a dog in the eyes of the public (and enterprises) and they chose to wait until win7

I've used both vista and win7 and its definitely different, the look, feel even to a degree the performance.

Between OSX 10.5 and 10.6 you really can't say that, visually speaking you really couldn't tell which OS you were using. There was no consumer facing major feature that you could point to in SL.

dethmaShine
Apr 11, 2011, 06:23 AM
The perception is a major upgrade but in reality, it was a minor (maybe medium). By that time, MS had righted the Vista ship, but it was too little too late, in the eyes of the consumer. Vista was a dog in the eyes of the public (and enterprises) and they chose to wait until win7

I've used both vista and win7 and its definitely different, the look, feel even to a degree the performance.

Between OSX 10.5 and 10.6 you really can't say that, visually speaking you really couldn't tell which OS you were using. There was no consumer facing major feature that you could point to in SL.

Fair argument for Windows 7. One could absolutely tell if he was using Windows 7 by looking at the taskbar, which had a different colour in Vista. :rolleyes:

But yes, the look and feel was different. Windows 7 is a great release and I really like it for the most part except that it doesn't have any features over Vista or XP for that matter.

One could easily tell if he was using SL or Leopard; SL feels way more polished, stable and smooth. The UI may not be different at all but Leopard was way different in normal operation.

I have leopard on one of my partitions and it was never that stable and smooth.

As for Lion, I still need an argument from either you or the user quoted in my previous comment.

Herdfan
Apr 11, 2011, 09:46 AM
Was Windows 7 a major upgrade over Vista?

OR

XP for that matter?

Well, you could upgrade from Vista to WIN7, from XP it had to be a clean install. Take what you will from that.

mrsir2009
Apr 11, 2011, 02:00 PM
The perception is a major upgrade but in reality, it was a minor (maybe medium). By that time, MS had righted the Vista ship, but it was too little too late, in the eyes of the consumer. Vista was a dog in the eyes of the public (and enterprises) and they chose to wait until win7

I've used both vista and win7 and its definitely different, the look, feel even to a degree the performance.

Between OSX 10.5 and 10.6 you really can't say that, visually speaking you really couldn't tell which OS you were using. There was no consumer facing major feature that you could point to in SL.

The iMacs at my school have Leopard, not SL, and I didn't notice the difference until some 3rd party software that works on my SL MBP at home didn't work on those iMacs.

mrblack927
Apr 11, 2011, 02:07 PM
I think I'll stay with SL for the time being. Some features (like spaces) were removed in Lion and I don't see any truly compelling things added.

Does anyone know, can you buy a new mac after lion comes out and install SL on it? Do they maintain older releases with kernel updates to support new hardware?

mrapplegate
Apr 11, 2011, 02:13 PM
I think I'll stay with SL for the time being. Some features (like spaces) were removed in Lion and I don't see any truly compelling things added.

Does anyone know, can you buy a new mac after lion comes out and install SL on it? Do they maintain older releases with kernel updates to support new hardware?

Spaces are still in Lion.

bizzle
Apr 11, 2011, 02:13 PM
Does anyone know, can you buy a new mac after lion comes out and install SL on it? Do they maintain older releases with kernel updates to support new hardware?

Highly doubt it.

mrblack927
Apr 11, 2011, 02:56 PM
Spaces are still in Lion.

There is something in lion called spaces, but it's not spaces.

mrapplegate
Apr 11, 2011, 04:23 PM
There is something in lion called spaces, but it's not spaces.

Spaces is what it has always been. Up to 16 "Desktops" each a different "space". It might be activated differently, but it is still spaces.

TechCavern
Apr 11, 2011, 05:50 PM
I plan on upgrading immediately!

maclaptop
Apr 11, 2011, 05:58 PM
I plan on upgrading immediately!
What about it attracts you?

MattInOz
Apr 11, 2011, 06:44 PM
Let's make this easy, no need for a poll.

Those who rely on their machine for work:
Will test on a separate machine and wait until things are clear. They may stick with Snow Leopard for quite a while.

Those who care about having the latest and greatest:
Will upgrade immediately.

I would have thought most people on MR would be in the category of buying first day(either first day of Dev or Retail releases) install on a non-vital machine. Then be expected to give the nod of when their fellow co-workers, family and friends should upgrade (oh add Clients to that list for the Developers).

MattInOz
Apr 11, 2011, 06:50 PM
Does anyone know, can you buy a new mac after lion comes out and install SL on it? Do they maintain older releases with kernel updates to support new hardware?

If the machine was on sale when Lion is released then you should be able to downgrade it back to Snow Leopard if you can get your hands on the install disk for machine. But you won't be able to buy from Apple in that config. The smaller independent retailers may do this for you.

Once the machine gets a physical update after Lion then the downgrade is not likely.

mrsir2009
Apr 11, 2011, 11:02 PM
I think I'll stay with SL for the time being. Some features (like spaces) were removed in Lion and I don't see any truly compelling things added.

Does anyone know, can you buy a new mac after lion comes out and install SL on it? Do they maintain older releases with kernel updates to support new hardware?

No, I don't see Apple doing that.

VPrime
Apr 11, 2011, 11:34 PM
I'm going to stick to os9 because I'm to scared about updating. :D

mrsir2009
Apr 12, 2011, 01:02 PM
I'm going to stick to os9 because I'm to scared about updating. :D

I still use OS9 alongside Mac OSX Snow Leopard. Its a great OS that has lots of stuff compatible with it :)

maflynn
Apr 12, 2011, 01:11 PM
I still use OS9 alongside Mac OSX Snow Leopard. Its a great OS that has lots of stuff compatible with it :)

Agreed, I have a G4 cube just to give me the ability to run OS9. The funny thing is when I fire up office and photoshop on my cube, the performance is that of a current day Mac. The only difference is that it can crash, not as feature rich and there's really no multitasking. Still when I yearn for the old days I crank that baby up :)

mrblack927
Apr 12, 2011, 02:20 PM
Spaces is what it has always been. Up to 16 "Desktops" each a different "space". It might be activated differently, but it is still spaces.

No, "spaces" (as seen in 10.5 and 10.6) is a framework for creating a grid of desktops and only desktops where you could arrange your workflow the way you wanted and leave it that way. It was a rigid structure that didn't change.

The new thing they're calling spaces in 10.7 is a collection of desktops, full screen apps, and the dashboard. They can only be setup in a long 1-dimensional line and they change position on their own based on what windows you click on. It's a fundamentally different app that Apple likely built from the ground up for Lion and just deleted the old spaces. Just because they gave it the same name doesn't mean it's the same thing. Heck, the icon for spaces doesn't even make sense with the new one:

mrapplegate
Apr 12, 2011, 02:38 PM
No, "spaces" (as seen in 10.5 and 10.6) is a framework for creating a grid of desktops and only desktops where you could arrange your workflow the way you wanted and leave it that way. It was a rigid structure that didn't change.

The new thing they're calling spaces in 10.7 is a collection of desktops, full screen apps, and the dashboard. They can only be setup in a long 1-dimensional line and they change position on their own based on what windows you click on. It's a fundamentally different app that Apple likely built from the ground up for Lion and just deleted the old spaces. Just because they gave it the same name doesn't mean it's the same thing. Heck, the icon for spaces doesn't even make sense with the new one:

I understand, I've been using it since it was released. The setup is different, you can no longer click a Plus or Minus circle to add a row or column space, but the concept is the same. It is the same thing, virtual desktops the user can switch between. The concept of viewing the spaces has changed in Lion, now called mission control, but you can still move between spaces by keyboard. I just wanted to point out spaces was not deleted in Lion. Even if you don't like the new way they are displayed it was not removed in any sense of the word and in fact has been integrated with Exposé in Lion.

baryon
Apr 12, 2011, 03:40 PM
No, "spaces" (as seen in 10.5 and 10.6) is a framework for creating a grid of desktops and only desktops where you could arrange your workflow the way you wanted and leave it that way. It was a rigid structure that didn't change.

The new thing they're calling spaces in 10.7 is a collection of desktops, full screen apps, and the dashboard. They can only be setup in a long 1-dimensional line and they change position on their own based on what windows you click on. It's a fundamentally different app that Apple likely built from the ground up for Lion and just deleted the old spaces. Just because they gave it the same name doesn't mean it's the same thing. Heck, the icon for spaces doesn't even make sense with the new one:

I agree, I can't see myself swiping through 6 spaces just to get to the one I want. I can't see myself getting used to the spaces rearranging themselves either. I also can't see what the point of not using a grid is. Wouldn't it be awesome to just have the old spaces, where you could set them up in a single row if you wish so, or a grid? Wouldn't it be great to just swipe up/down/left/right with 4 fingers between all your spaces in all directions? I'm a visual person and I imagine where my windows are, physically, even if they're not on the screen. Like right now, the space above this one, I know that there is Skype, and the space on the right there's Photoshop, and on the left there's Mail. So from this space, I can get to 3 different ones with a single movement. It's easier for me to remember where things are like this, instead of just remembering them in a freaking single row.

mrapplegate
Apr 12, 2011, 04:14 PM
I agree, I can't see myself swiping through 6 spaces just to get to the one I want. I can't see myself getting used to the spaces rearranging themselves either. I also can't see what the point of not using a grid is. Wouldn't it be awesome to just have the old spaces, where you could set them up in a single row if you wish so, or a grid? Wouldn't it be great to just swipe up/down/left/right with 4 fingers between all your spaces in all directions? I'm a visual person and I imagine where my windows are, physically, even if they're not on the screen. Like right now, the space above this one, I know that there is Skype, and the space on the right there's Photoshop, and on the left there's Mail. So from this space, I can get to 3 different ones with a single movement. It's easier for me to remember where things are like this, instead of just remembering them in a freaking single row.
I'm not seeing them rearrange themselves. When do they do that? I guess I am not seeing that.

mrsir2009
Apr 13, 2011, 12:25 AM
Agreed, I have a G4 cube just to give me the ability to run OS9. The funny thing is when I fire up office and photoshop on my cube, the performance is that of a current day Mac. The only difference is that it can crash, not as feature rich and there's really no multitasking. Still when I yearn for the old days I crank that baby up :)

I've got an iBook for running OS9. Its a G3, so its not nearly as powerful as your cube, but there's some sweet classic games that go well on it (Simcity 2000, Macinvaders, Spaceway 2000, Prince of Persia, Glider Pro...

BTW Macintosh garden is a great place of getting classic games and software.

mrblack927
Apr 13, 2011, 08:20 AM
I'm not seeing them rearrange themselves. When do they do that? I guess I am not seeing that.

Do this:

Set up at least 3 spaces.
Open safari and put it in space 1
Open mail and put it in space 2
Open ical and put it in space 3
(note: don't open any of these in "full screen" mode, just normal windows will do)

Now open mission control and notice that your spaces are in order. Ie. Desktop 1 - Desktop 2 - Desktop 3

Now, close mission control, go to space one, and click on iCal from the dock. Open mission control again. You'll see it now goes Desktop 1 - Desktop 3 - Desktop 2

Why? Because you were in space 1, and you activated an app that was in space 3. Instead of just taking you there, the OS moved space 3 to your immediate right so that it would be close to you. It seems the idea is to keep your "most used" apps close to you. Since space 1 never moves, this effectively means the spaces will be ordered from left to right, most recent to least recent. I can see the merit in this idea but for those of us who lay out our spaces in a certain order for a specific reason, it's just frustrating. Since you can't rearrange them any other way (like clicking and dragging them in mission control) I find myself systematically clicking dock icons to "force" them back into order.

mrapplegate
Apr 13, 2011, 08:29 AM
Do this:

Set up at least 3 spaces.
Open safari and put it in space 1
Open mail and put it in space 2
Open ical and put it in space 3
(note: don't open any of these in "full screen" mode, just normal windows will do)

Now open mission control and notice that your spaces are in order. Ie. Desktop 1 - Desktop 2 - Desktop 3

Now, close mission control, go to space one, and click on iCal from the dock. Open mission control again. You'll see it now goes Desktop 1 - Desktop 3 - Desktop 2

Why? Because you were in space 1, and you activated an app that was in space 3. Instead of just taking you there, the OS moved space 3 to your immediate right so that it would be close to you. It seems the idea is to keep your "most used" apps close to you. Since space 1 never moves, this effectively means the spaces will be ordered from left to right, most recent to least recent. I can see the merit in this idea but for those of us who lay out our spaces in a certain order for a specific reason, it's just frustrating. Since you can't rearrange them any other way (like clicking and dragging them in mission control) I find myself systematically clicking dock icons to "force" them back into order.

Interesting, I can't replicate that. Just tried and mine don't jump out of order. Sounds like a bug at the vary least.

mrblack927
Apr 13, 2011, 11:08 AM
Interesting, I can't replicate that. Just tried and mine don't jump out of order. Sounds like a bug at the vary least.

Click ical and safari a few times (clicking the dock icons). It should be moving you back and forth between the space with safari and the space with ical right? Now look at the arrangement of spaces in mission control. Is the one with safari not next to the one with ical?

It would be interesting if so. I haven't heard of anyone with lion not getting this behavior so far...

mrapplegate
Apr 13, 2011, 12:07 PM
Click ical and safari a few times (clicking the dock icons). It should be moving you back and forth between the space with safari and the space with ical right? Now look at the arrangement of spaces in mission control. Is the one with safari not next to the one with ical?

It would be interesting if so. I haven't heard of anyone with lion not getting this behavior so far...

Let me try again.
Got it to do it. Weird. I would say it's a bug, why would Apple want them to show out of order. I'll file a report.

IndigoQuack
Apr 13, 2011, 12:35 PM
I'll be sticking with Snow for the foreseeable future - not because I have any particular aversion to Lion, but more because my dear old MacBook is of the Core Duo vintage, and it looks like they won't be supported. So, whenever I get a new Mac, that will probably run Lion; but that won't be for at least another year or two yet.

mrblack927
Apr 13, 2011, 04:00 PM
Let me try again.
Got it to do it. Weird. I would say it's a bug, why would Apple want them to show out of order. I'll file a report.

It could be a bug. I filed a bug report too since they asked us to report "anything that breaks productivity" as well.

However, I'm pretty sure it's intentional. If you have an iPhone/iPad or whatever, look at how the icons are arranged in the quick launch bar (aka multitasking bar). They go from left to right by most recently used. If you happened to use the 4-finger gestures in the iPad developer beta, swiping left or right moves you between your apps in the same order that they are displayed in the quick launch bar. I think the idea is for OSX to mimic that behavior. If you only think of spaces as full screen apps and not desktops, you can see the similarity. That also explains why you can't "drag and drop" to rearrange spaces while in mission control. They want to OS to order them automatically.

Hopefully I'm wrong, it's a bug, or Apple gives us the option of "manual control". They can still change anything before the release. Maybe if enough people write in about it, they will.

mrapplegate
Apr 13, 2011, 04:51 PM
It could be a bug. I filed a bug report too since they asked us to report "anything that breaks productivity" as well.

However, I'm pretty sure it's intentional. If you have an iPhone/iPad or whatever, look at how the icons are arranged in the quick launch bar (aka multitasking bar). They go from left to right by most recently used. If you happened to use the 4-finger gestures in the iPad developer beta, swiping left or right moves you between your apps in the same order that they are displayed in the quick launch bar. I think the idea is for OSX to mimic that behavior. If you only think of spaces as full screen apps and not desktops, you can see the similarity. That also explains why you can't "drag and drop" to rearrange spaces while in mission control. They want to OS to order them automatically.

Hopefully I'm wrong, it's a bug, or Apple gives us the option of "manual control". They can still change anything before the release. Maybe if enough people write in about it, they will.
Let's hope it is a bug. I would hope Apple won't stick to a linear approach to spaces. Since it is only a preview I'm not going to worry much. I'm sure they will take enhancement/feature requests seriously.

nixbsd
Apr 14, 2011, 11:28 PM
i've been using Lion DP2 as my primary system
full disk encryption on

jayhawk11
Apr 14, 2011, 11:35 PM
A minor GUI overhaul and a few new features isn't exactly a major OS upgrade IMO.

Tiger and Leopard - They were MAJOR upgrades. Tiger made OSX usable for tons and tons of people (myself included) and Leopard overhauled almost the entire OS. Lion doesn't do anything near that!

I'm late to respond to this, but I would say that Snow Leopard was a much more massive change to Mac OS X than Leopard ever was. Not visually, but the core technologies that changed were monumental.

mrsir2009
Apr 15, 2011, 12:20 AM
I'm late to respond to this, but I would say that Snow Leopard was a much more massive change to Mac OS X than Leopard ever was. Not visually, but the core technologies that changed were monumental.

But no huge core technologies changed in Lion?