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A Macbook Pro
Apr 16, 2011, 02:46 AM
Absolute rubbish. Honestly Apple, what the **** is this? http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/6259/screenshot20110416at535.png

Maybe I'm getting around to posting this a bit late but I've had this complaint since day one of the Lion DP. I'm not a spaces user, I'm not into all this crazy real estate maximisation stuff the pros like to do, I just like to be able to switch between all my windows easily, and Snow Leopard did that great. So when I found out trying to go from Safari to Lion looked like above, I honestly though it was a sick joke. Could somebody please enlighten me how Apple thinks the above is easier to use then this: http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/7048/screenshot20110416at541.png

That's just with two windows open. Try for yourself what it's like with 3 or more, absolute mess.



baryon
Apr 16, 2011, 03:20 AM
The same way Apple thinks this:

http://wengyuen.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/exposef3.jpg?w=420&h=263

...is better than this:

http://www.ofbrooklyn.com/media/photos/Screen_shot_2011-01-09_at_10.39.46_AM.png

Edit: Thanks roadbloc :D

roadbloc
Apr 16, 2011, 04:27 AM
[ timg ] image.xxx [ /timg ]

VPrime
Apr 16, 2011, 04:29 AM
Isn't that just mission control? I thought the old (10.6) expose still exists as a separate entity.

roadbloc
Apr 16, 2011, 04:40 AM
Isn't that just mission control? I thought the old (10.6) expose still exists as a separate entity.
No. Mission Control replaces Expose, Spaces and Dashboard into one massive... thing.

VPrime
Apr 16, 2011, 05:03 AM
No. Mission Control replaces Expose, Spaces and Dashboard into one massive... thing.

Oh ok, I must have misread some articles then.. when they said you can change the touchpad gesture to show all windows I though it was just regular expose.

baryon
Apr 16, 2011, 05:17 AM
The old ExposÚ still works but only for the current app's windows, which I never use. I only ever used "All Windows" as it shows me everything on that space. When I'm looking for a window, I have a window in mind, I don't even know what application it's from. Say I have 5 Photoshop images open and 3 Preview windows, I'm just looking for a specific image, I don't care or know what app it's in.

brijazz
Apr 16, 2011, 06:12 AM
Try for yourself what it's like with 3 or more, absolute mess.

Here's an image I found that shows the anatomy of a "busy" Mission Control/ExposÚ (courtesy of Gawker):

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/10/lion-mission-control.jpg

Looks pretty orderly; I always wanted to have my ExposÚ windows grouped by app, and here it is. Full-screen apps function much like Spaces currently do. As always, you have the option to stick with Snow Leopard.

mrblack927
Apr 16, 2011, 06:26 AM
As always, you have the option to stick with Snow Leopard.

Not really. As soon as Lion drops every Mac will come with Lion by default and you won't be able to downgrade. So you only have the "option to stick with snow leopard" as long as you never get a new computer.

brijazz
Apr 16, 2011, 06:34 AM
Not really. As soon as Lion drops every Mac will come with Lion by default and you won't be able to downgrade. So you only have the "option to stick with snow leopard" as long as you never get a new computer.

That's a good point. On a sidenote, there have always been complaints about whatever feature is being added to the next major OS. I'd love to review the 10.5 thread from the months before it hit shelves!

Plenty of people bitch and moan and vow to never upgrade.... but I'm sure most of us are on 10.6 anyway :rolleyes:

vultureboy
Apr 16, 2011, 11:06 AM
If you're only switching between a couple of windows then why use expose at all.. Just hit Apple+tab.

However when working with 7+ applications like i usually have open expose is absolutely brilliant and actually better in Lion that previously. At least that's my opinion.

dethmaShine
Apr 16, 2011, 11:19 AM
Apple could simply give an option to map the expose key to mission control or to map expose key to Old expose and spaces type functionality.

OR simply say: Disable Mission Control. Boom.

Cinder6
Apr 19, 2011, 01:34 PM
The given screenshot is a terrible example. The windows in Mission Control are larger than Snow Leopard's Expose. More windows will make it look more cluttered and actually show what people are complaining about.

Personally, I like most of the changes. It seems more organized and intuitive, though I prefer the old way that Dashboard worked.

baryon
Apr 19, 2011, 02:21 PM
If you're only switching between a couple of windows then why use expose at all.. Just hit Apple+tab.

Cmd + Tab for me is horribly implemented, as it brings you to an App and not to a WINDOW. What if I have 2 Safari windows, both on separate Spaces? Which one will Alt + Tab bring me to? It's impossible to tell!

What if I have 3 Photoshop documents open, covering each other, I can't just Alt+Tab between them, I have to actually see each window to know which one I want. Which is why I need ExposÚ, and I know Lion still has the classic ExposÚ for the current application, which is fine, but I don't like to think about whether I should activate "All Windows ExposÚ" or "Current Windows ExposÚ". I just always use "All Windows". But in Mission Control, windows from the same app are grouped so they cover each other, which will force me to have to use All Windows ExposÚ at times and Mission Control at other times. That's one more decision to make and 2 ExposÚs to use instead of just one that works for everything.

dethmaShine
Apr 19, 2011, 03:41 PM
Cmd + Tab for me is horribly implemented, as it brings you to an App and not to a WINDOW. What if I have 2 Safari windows, both on separate Spaces? Which one will Alt + Tab bring me to? It's impossible to tell!

What if I have 3 Photoshop documents open, covering each other, I can't just Alt+Tab between them, I have to actually see each window to know which one I want. Which is why I need ExposÚ, and I know Lion still has the classic ExposÚ for the current application, which is fine, but I don't like to think about whether I should activate "All Windows ExposÚ" or "Current Windows ExposÚ". I just always use "All Windows". But in Mission Control, windows from the same app are grouped so they cover each other, which will force me to have to use All Windows ExposÚ at times and Mission Control at other times. That's one more decision to make and 2 ExposÚs to use instead of just one that works for everything.

If you need to switch between windows of the same kind, use:

cmd + `

baryon
Apr 19, 2011, 04:08 PM
If you need to switch between windows of the same kind, use:

cmd + `

Yeah, but that doesn't always work with all applications, plus you have to go through every window one by one to find the one you want. If you have 5 windows you have to press it 5 times at most. Why not just do ExposÚ, and actually SEE all the windows and click the one you want? The world today is no longer about linear workflows, but rather nonlinear, visual, what you see is what you get stuff. You want a window, you click on THE WINDOW, not an icon, a name, or a representation. That's why Cmd + Tab is now very old and outdated when compared to things like Mission Control, if only Mission Control fixed a few bugs and annoyances... Cmd + ' is still linear and requires going through windows you don't want to get to the one you actually want. It's not what the future is about!

tkermit
Apr 19, 2011, 04:54 PM
The same way Apple thinks this:

http://wengyuen.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/exposef3.jpg?w=420&h=263

...is better than this:

http://www.ofbrooklyn.com/media/photos/Screen_shot_2011-01-09_at_10.39.46_AM.png

Edit: Thanks roadbloc :D

Well, fortunately they seem to have realized now, that they got it right the first time. At least when it comes to the importance of keeping the window size relations intact.

KirkL
Apr 19, 2011, 05:20 PM
I actually like the new Expose. I think grouping it by App would make things so much easier.

mrblack927
Apr 20, 2011, 11:41 AM
It's funny, isn't it? For expose, 10.5 was better than 10.6, and 10.6 was better than 10.7. I imagine 10.8 will probably just be a stack of all your windows, regardless of application. ;)

Cougarcat
Apr 20, 2011, 01:46 PM
Personally, I like most of the changes. It seems more organized and intuitive, though I prefer the old way that Dashboard worked.

You can change back dashboard to the old way (an overlay rather than a space) in system prefs.

mrsir2009
Apr 20, 2011, 02:36 PM
Wait, let me get this straight... I have to hit the mission control button THEN click on the dashboard button on mission control just to get the dash to appear?

I wish the expose button did mission control and the dashboard button kept going directly to the dash. The buttons there, so whats the harm in using it?

baryon
Apr 20, 2011, 03:02 PM
Wait, let me get this straight... I have to hit the mission control button THEN click on the dashboard button on mission control just to get the dash to appear?

I wish the expose button did mission control and the dashboard button kept going directly to the dash. The buttons there, so whats the harm in using it?

What? What does the Dashboard button do then? I would find it logical that it would do... well... Dashboard. I don't have Lion so I can't try, but could someone tell me what those buttons do please?

Cougarcat
Apr 20, 2011, 03:38 PM
What? What does the Dashboard button do then? I would find it logical that it would do... well... Dashboard. I don't have Lion so I can't try, but could someone tell me what those buttons do please?

He's wrong. Expose key is now Mission control, Dashboard remains Dashboard.

No need to get alarmed.

baryon
Apr 20, 2011, 03:49 PM
He's wrong. Expose key is now Mission control, Dashboard remains Dashboard.

No need to get alarmed.

Good then! If you use Dashboard as a Space, then does it "swipe" you to your leftmost space (Dashboard) when you press F4? Does it rearrange your Dashboard space or is it "pinned" to always be the leftmost one?

mrblack927
Apr 20, 2011, 05:46 PM
Good then! If you use Dashboard as a Space, then does it "swipe" you to your leftmost space (Dashboard) when you press F4?
That's correct.
Does it rearrange your Dashboard space or is it "pinned" to always be the leftmost one?
It's always the leftmost space.

Cinder6
Apr 21, 2011, 12:42 PM
You can change back dashboard to the old way (an overlay rather than a space) in system prefs.

Great to know, thanks.

GoKyu
Apr 21, 2011, 06:14 PM
I may have to switch to using ExposÚ in Lion, cos they completely destroyed the flexibility of Spaces...unless there's some hidden way to get the old Spaces back :)

thenewperson
Apr 21, 2011, 07:07 PM
It's funny, isn't it? For expose, 10.5 was better than 10.6, and 10.6 was better than 10.7. I imagine 10.8 will probably just be a stack of all your windows, regardless of application. ;)

Really? Expose in 10.6 was worse than 10.5 for you? I actually thought Expose in 10.6 was the most perfect they could make it. Lion seems to have taken the worst parts of Expose in 10.5 and 10.6 (especially in DP2, it really sucks now).

hamis92
Apr 22, 2011, 06:42 AM
It's funny, isn't it? For expose, 10.5 was better than 10.6, and 10.6 was better than 10.7. I imagine 10.8 will probably just be a stack of all your windows, regardless of application. ;)

That sounds a lot like Windows Flip :rolleyes: :eek:


Really? Expose in 10.6 was worse than 10.5 for you? I actually thought Expose in 10.6 was the most perfect they could make it. Lion seems to have taken the worst parts of Expose in 10.5 and 10.6 (especially in DP2, it really sucks now).
The thing that made the 10.5 implementation of ExposÚ so great compared to 10.6 was that it kept window sizes relative to each other instead of forcing them to be the same size. The way 10.6 arranges them in a grid has also been a topic of debate, I preferred the organic mess where windows moved as little as necessary.

mrblack927
Apr 22, 2011, 10:37 AM
Really? Expose in 10.6 was worse than 10.5 for you? I actually thought Expose in 10.6 was the most perfect they could make it. Lion seems to have taken the worst parts of Expose in 10.5 and 10.6 (especially in DP2, it really sucks now).

10.6 made all of the windows smaller and harder to read for some reason. This can be seen in Bayron's example (top is 10.6, bottom is 10.5):

The same way Apple thinks this:

http://wengyuen.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/exposef3.jpg?w=420&h=263

...is better than this:

http://www.ofbrooklyn.com/media/photos/Screen_shot_2011-01-09_at_10.39.46_AM.png

Edit: Thanks roadbloc :D

Which do you think is easier to use?

Cinder6
Apr 25, 2011, 12:41 PM
There are pros and cons to both versions of Expose. The new one is much more organized. I find myself spending less time looking for windows, as their positioning is more intuitive and less random. On the other hand, the old way often had windows appear larger, making them easier to read.

Al Coholic
Apr 26, 2011, 09:50 AM
There are pros and cons to both versions of Expose. The new one is much more organized. I find myself spending less time looking for windows, as their positioning is more intuitive and less random. On the other hand, the old way often had windows appear larger, making them easier to read.

I can't figure out how SL re-orders the windows in Expose. Every time I go in and out of an app they all seem to be shuffled in different positions. Apple is trying to make something easier for me by reordering them but like I say... I just can't figure it out and find myself "hunting" for the one I want. (Because it's not in the same place as last time I entered expose).

Does Lion do this?

mrblack927
Apr 26, 2011, 12:07 PM
I can't figure out how SL re-orders the windows in Expose. Every time I go in and out of an app they all seem to be shuffled in different positions. Apple is trying to make something easier for me by reordering them but like I say... I just can't figure it out and find myself "hunting" for the one I want. (Because it's not in the same place as last time I entered expose).

Does Lion do this?

No. I know what you mean about expose in SL and it doesn't happen in Lion. Windows stay in the same position until you open/close something else.

karohan
Apr 26, 2011, 04:38 PM
How's the performance of this new Expose? The smoothness of Expose has gotten worse and worse from Tiger to Snow Leopard. Is this one choppier or smoother than Snow Leopard?

ErikGrim
Apr 26, 2011, 05:17 PM
How's the performance of this new Expose? The smoothness of Expose has gotten worse and worse from Tiger to Snow Leopard. Is this one choppier or smoother than Snow Leopard?

Smooth as butter. But then again I'm on a recent 27" iMac.

karohan
Apr 26, 2011, 06:22 PM
Smooth as butter. But then again I'm on a recent 27" iMac.

Well Expose on Snow Leopard with a mid-2010 Macbook Pro (which is no slouch) is not buttery smooth. While I understand people have different opinions of what is smooth or not, the animation is definitely smoother with Leopard. If it's smoother with Lion than Snow Leopard, that's progress.

superericla
Apr 26, 2011, 06:38 PM
I find it to be significantly smoother in Lion. Of course I am on a 2011 MacBook Pro.

karohan
Apr 26, 2011, 07:03 PM
That's a great sign =D