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seerex
Apr 24, 2011, 12:17 PM
Hi all,
I have a few questions if someone doesnt mind answering

I'm getting my first macbook on thursdag! im extremely happy about finally saving up for one, and the main purpose of it will be to learn how to program and create iphone and ipad applications.

heres my line of questions answering just some of em would prove very helpfull for me.

1. Which would be better for programming? macbook air or pro? both the 13" ones.
2. How do i get started? i'm new to programming and some "totally beginners book for the dummies" would be nice If the book contained some code or examples that actually shows i'm doing some progress would only be a plus, for example some test projects - ofc the main thing would be to actually learn the language and start on my own.


3. Should i learn cocoa or objective C first? or both at the same time? What is the diffrence?
4. Is iphone and ipad programming similar and can both be learned by reading the same subjects in a mentioned book?

5. Can i create apps on my own? i have no skills in designing anything, so im wondering if theres maybe some free to use buttons, characters etc whatever u need? or do i NEED to have a designated designer??

I guess it covers it thanks for taking ur time to read! looking forwaqrd to any answers!
Best regards!



KnightWRX
Apr 24, 2011, 12:50 PM
The first thing to do would be to read the stickies at the top of the forum. They will have book suggestions. If you are totally new to programming, you might actually want to learn programming before you delve into OOP and iOS programming. iOS development is not something you can just drag and drop a few objects around and have a best-selling app. You need to actually know about control structures, blocks, memory management, etc.. etc..

A good starting point would be to learn C. Objective-C is a superset to C that adds an object-oriented framework (classes with their variables/methods).

As for the hardware : either, it doesn't matter. Programming is not something that is especially hardware intensive and any Intel Mac can be used for iOS development, so your choice here should probably be based on your budget and other needs.

As for design, no, the basic controls are all provided by the UIKit framework. No need to "design" any graphics for basic applications.

seerex
Apr 24, 2011, 01:10 PM
Thank you for ur reply!

Sorry for not reading the stickies, i've been so stressed trying to figure all this out and registered for 3 different forums where as this was the only one actually answering :)

I know theres a steady learning curve on learning new programming laungage, as i've done some c++ console programming before. I also know that you can start putting some things together pretty early on, using the different things you've learned as you progress (atleast that was the case in c++)

I was thinking of this book http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Objective-C-2-0-3rd-ebook/dp/B004QQ3MI6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&m=A8WELHUS1CTB6&s=digital-text&qid=1303668026&sr=1-4
Or maybe this one actually http://www.amazon.com/iPhone-Programming-Ranch-Guide-ebook/dp/B003EINO1W/ref=pd_sim_kinc_7?ie=UTF8&m=A8WELHUS1CTB6
I might be reffering the most to the last one, any takes?

It states it assumes no prior programming knowledge to any other language, not C either. It will cover both a bit of C, objective C and some of the cocoa frameworks.

thank you for trying to help me, i'd just like to get the best start possible :) Sorry for being a pain and taking away your time, but i sincerely thank you for helping me out :)

KnightWRX
Apr 24, 2011, 01:23 PM
That book (Kochan's Programming in Objective-C 2.0) is what is recommended in the Guide at the top of the forum indeed :

http://guides.macrumors.com/Cocoa_FAQ#What_book_do_you_recommend_for_learning_Cocoa.3F

If you already have some programming experience with C++ (your initial post stated you were new to programming), you should be fine to delve into it directly.

seerex
Apr 24, 2011, 01:39 PM
Thank you for that link!

I guess i'll go for objective C 2.0 book then :)

Should i start reading up on it now, or wait till thursday when i actually get the mac before i delve into it?

And i couldnt help but notice you have a macbook air 13". How do you find it? :) You dont find the screen too small to program on do you? ^^

Thanks again for ur swift reply :)

KnightWRX
Apr 24, 2011, 01:45 PM
The screen of the MBA is better to program on than the MBP. The extra resolution (1440x900 over 1280x800) makes it so more code is up on screen at a time, which is something I like (I hate scrolling or switching windows).

However, both are far from ideal, most of my programming is done when connected to my external monitor (a beast with 2048x1156 resolution). If I could afford dual 1920x1200 screens, I would go for that as both the current MBA and MBP can drive such displays without any problem.

If you want to start reading up on it now, you can always install GNUStep on your current computer. It implements much of the Foundation classes. However, be warned that it is based on Objective-C 1.x and thus lacks some features (@property and @synthesize for one) and some of the Foundation classes are implemented differently from Apple's implementation. It should still let you delve in the beginning chapters without too much effort.

balamw
Apr 24, 2011, 02:04 PM
Should i start reading up on it now, or wait till thursday when i actually get the mac before i delve into it?

You can definitely get something out of it just by reading it without Xcode available and running.

NOTE: Some folks find Kochan boring or at least slow going in the beginning. Give it a chance and if the first few chapters don't grab you skip ahead a bit.

The second book you mention (Hillegass & Conway) is a great second book since it delves more into the iOS specific/GUI stuff that is barely touched at the end of Kochan.

EDIT: If you are really anxious to get started you could always rent time at http://www.macincloud.com/. For as low as $20 for a month's access.

B

seerex
Apr 24, 2011, 02:21 PM
Thanks for helping me out both of you :)

Heres my plan
1. Buy my macbook - air or pro, think it will be air as it allows me to easyli bring it along and program on-the-go
2. i'll buy objective-C 2.0 and read it all even though i find it boring i'll keep at it :)
3. then after that i'll buy the second book i mentioned.

Thanks for helping me both of you, now i finally feel ready :)

Jethrotoe
Apr 24, 2011, 07:01 PM
The screen of the MBA is better to program on than the MBP. The extra resolution (1440x900 over 1280x800) makes it so more code is up on screen at a time, which is something I like (I hate scrolling or switching windows).



I hate scrolling and moving windows to work with all the windows open at one time in X-code. I bought a MBP 15" for working code. Kind of wish I got the 17" for the increased area but more to carry around. External to come soon.

A question though...my mid-2009 MBP does 1440x900. I'm confused by your stating the MBA is better because of extra res.

KnightWRX
Apr 24, 2011, 07:12 PM
I hate scrolling and moving windows to work with all the windows open at one time in X-code. I bought a MBP 15" for working code. Kind of wish I got the 17" for the increased area but more to carry around. External to come soon.

I'd want a 17" or 15" HiRes ideally. But the weight is a killer. I drag this laptop around on my motorcycle, hanging off in my backpack, full of gym crap in it. The MBA is literrally "a load off my back". Of course, my Targus backpack has **** for restraints and bad ergonomics to begin with. I need to look into a better bag.

A question though...my mid-2009 MBP does 1440x900. I'm confused by your stating the MBA is better because of extra res.

I was referring to a 13" MBP of course. If the OP is looking at the MBA, I assumed he'd compare it to that model and not the 15" or even a 17".

Jethrotoe
Apr 24, 2011, 08:15 PM
I'd want a 17" or 15" HiRes ideally. But the weight is a killer. I drag this laptop around on my motorcycle, hanging off in my backpack, full of gym crap in it. The MBA is literrally "a load off my back". Of course, my Targus backpack has **** for restraints and bad ergonomics to begin with. I need to look into a better bag.



I was referring to a 13" MBP of course. If the OP is looking at the MBA, I assumed he'd compare it to that model and not the 15" or even a 17".
Yes, if I traveled more than I do or take it on my bike like you do, a MBA is the machine. Very attractive for many reasons. Still might get one to play with one day. Might replace the iPad downstairs for casual use. I don't take my MBP around as much as I thought I would so I probably should have gotten the 17".

My apologies on the model mix up. I did remember about the res differences. Thanks.

A note to the OP: try a 13" out real good in the stores or a friends. I myself could not look at lines of code for days on end squinting at a 13". But some more experienced programmers may not agree and the 13" price might be right for you.

firewood
Apr 25, 2011, 01:40 PM
And i couldnt help but notice you have a macbook air 13". How do you find it? :) You dont find the screen too small to program on do you?

I've written several iPhone and iPad apps now selling in the App store on an MBA 11. Screen size of the 11 isn't a problem for me.

For serious debugging of iPad apps, it's occasionally nice to have the option to plug a large external monitor into the MBA 11. But on the road I've done without just fine.

RodThePlod
Apr 30, 2011, 03:27 PM
I've written several iPhone and iPad apps now selling in the App store on an MBA 11. Screen size of the 11 isn't a problem for me.

I started my development work on a Macbook and found it pretty hard going but not impossible. It was frustrating trying to resize and reposition windows all the time.

Eventually I bought a used Mac mini off ebay and use that with a Samsung monitor running at 1920x1080. Much, much easier to work with.

Having said that, your Macbook will be great for you to start getting your hands dirty. Good luck!

RTP.

ViviUO
May 1, 2011, 01:44 PM
http://www.amazon.com/Yourself-iPhone-Application-Development-ebook/dp/B004BSFIUY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2&s=digital-text&qid=1304275307&sr=8-2

This book is a great way to learn about the most common UI controls and it will give you a good idea on how to use them.

However, you WILL want a more in-depth book after using this one to learn about MVC.