ATI All in Wonder - Mac DVR

[arn]

ThinkSecret reports (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/atiallinwonder.html) that ATI is working on a Mac version of their All-In-Wonder (http://mirror.ati.com/products/pc/aiwradeon/index.html) video card.

Amongst other features, ATI's All-In-Wonder provides DVR (Digital Video Recorder) functionality which was popularized by ReplayTV (http://www.replaytv.com) and Tivo (http://www.tivo.com). ATI would not be the first to the Mac market... El Gato Software (http://www.elgato.com/) released their Eye TV Recorder (http://www.elgato.com/eyeTV/index.html) for the Mac a few months ago.

One advantage of the ATI card is that the PC version currently records in MPEG-2 (vs MPEG-1)

[vniow]

Yes, yes yes!
Those cards are great and they actually work roght, as lond as you have the latest drivers. That would be great for a Powermac. Even better if it was firewire. :)

I e-mailed then awhile ago on this and I never got a response back. Glad that Think Secret confirms it.

[arn]

I love my ReplayTV....

not sure if I would get one of these... as the Replay is all pretty seamless.

arn

[vniow]

Originally posted by arn
I love my ReplayTV....

not sure if I would get one of these... as the Replay is all pretty seamless.

arn

They're pretty good. I'm watching Star Trek on mine right now. They're not as seamless as a Tivo or a ReplayTV, but the great thing about them is since they record MPEG-2 to your computer, you can archive and edit them, plus convert them to Divx or MP4 is you feel like it. :)

[arn]

Originally posted by edvniow


They're pretty good. I'm watching Star Trek on mine right now. They're not as seamless as a Tivo or a ReplayTV, but the great thing about them is since they record MPEG-2 to your computer, you can archive and edit them, plus convert them to Divx or MP4 is you feel like it. :)

true... it's a pain to try to get the MPEG2's off the Replay.

arn

[dricci]

Any idea if these work with Dish Network receivers? If so, I'll be first in line! May just hold off on selling the Power Mac for an eMac after all...

[vniow]

Originally posted by dricci
Any idea if these work with Dish Network receivers? If so, I'll be first in line! May just hold off on selling the Power Mac for an eMac after all...

The cards have two dongles with them; the first is the output, it holds the S-video, composite, coaxial digital audio and a sound card interconnect.
The input has S-video, composite and stereo audio inputs.
Inbewteen them both is the TV input. It's not the best shielded one, good for numerically higher channels, lower ones tend to get fuzzy.
So if your satellite reviever has the connections to hook it up to the input box on the card, then you're all set.
I'd love to see what this looks like on a Cinema display, mmmmmm....

[MacBandit]

I hope this thing is based on the 9700Pro.

[ddtlm]

Now this is something I would lay the money down for! (Of course, perhaps it's just another in a long line of erronious rumors.)

[vniow]

Originally posted by MacBandit
I hope this thing is based on the 9700Pro.

Not according to ATI. They said themselves that there's no room on it for a tuner. Sure as hell would be nice though.
Anybody care for some screenshots?

[BongHits]

is it pci based? i'd hate for it to be agp (as their is only 1 slot) because then id be stuck choosing between this (which would be nice) and a radeon 9700pro(much nicer)...please say external firewire or pci card

[vniow]

Originally posted by BongHits
is it pci based? i'd hate for it to be agp (as their is only 1 slot) because then id be stuck choosing between this (which would be nice) and a radeon 9700pro(much nicer)...please say external firewire or pci card

Sorry, they're only AGP. They quit making the PCI versions awhile ago.
A firewire version would be great, especially sonce the iMacs, eMacs and iBooks don't have AGP slots and a lot of students use them so they don't always have room fo a TV and a computer.

[scem0]

sounds interesting. Too bad I'm completely broke! :mad: :mad: :mad: . Sigh.... :( ;) :D

[reyesmac]

This will sell as good as their soundcard did if it only works on AGP Powermacs. Do I want a card that will let me play games and itunes with higher framerates, or do I want to watch TV on my screen and have lower framerates than the card my mac came with? I can't believe they would make this AGP only, that is unless they know that Apple will ship Macs with 2 AGP slots.

[solvs]

If you don't want the AGP version, there are firewire solutions by Sony, Formac, and Dazzle. ATI and some others make USB-in solutions. Not so good though. It could be a scaled down 9700, but it'll probably the 9000. I doubt it will be the 8500, but in some ways it's actually better than the 9000.

The 9000 does have some better (re:newer) features, but the retail doesn't have TV-Out. I was thinking about getting the 7000 PCI and/or a Matrox RTMac (if it ever came out with OS X drivers), or one of those other realtime cards (expensive though), or one of the firewire boxes. It was a tough choice, and nothing really fit right, but this would be perfect. If it turns out to be true. Maybe I will get a Tower instead of a PowerBook.

Wonder how much it will cost?

[theaz]

interestingly their own website would seem to suggest that the 8500 PC version is also available for mac. Check out:

http://mirror.ati.com/designpartners/media/pc/aiwradeon8500.html

It must be a typo...

[rugby]

How many hundreds of dollars will this cost? I'm thinking around $500 or so for the Mac version.

[aaronvegh]

That PC/Mac platform note you see refers to the images that you can view. It's just saying that you can view the images on a PC or Mac. Well, duh!

Too bad. I'd love to get an AIW for my tower, but I can't stand ATI's attitude to the Mac: flash the PC card and jack up the price. Bastages.

When it comes to video in, though, I'm used to getting jacked. I bought the Formac ProTV Stereo just before OS X came out, and now that I"m addicted to X, I can't use my card! Formac won't make a driver for me. Anyone know how I can deal with that?

A.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by dricci
Any idea if these work with Dish Network receivers? If so, I'll be first in line! May just hold off on selling the Power Mac for an eMac after all...

It will take Dish output as input, but won't (as of yet and as far as I know) control the satellite receiver (or a digital or premium cable box). There might be a third-party solution to that, though.

[nixd2001]

Originally posted by edvniow


The cards have two dongles with them; the first is the output, it holds the S-video, composite, coaxial digital audio and a sound card interconnect.
The input has S-video, composite and stereo audio inputs.
Inbewteen them both is the TV input. It's not the best shielded one, good for numerically higher channels, lower ones tend to get fuzzy.
So if your satellite reviever has the connections to hook it up to the input box on the card, then you're all set.
I'd love to see what this looks like on a Cinema display, mmmmmm....

Could you explain the bit about "numerically higher channels" to someone from the UK please. Does this mean there's simply a correlation between lower date rate encoding for lower numbered channels (eg 2Mbit/S) and higher data rates for higher channels (eg 8Mbits/S), or is something more subtle?

thanks.

PS I ask 'cause I'm interested and want to end up knowing whether to pursue for use in the UK.

[vniow]

Originally posted by nixd2001


Could you explain the bit about "numerically higher channels" to someone from the UK please. Does this mean there's simply a correlation between lower date rate encoding for lower numbered channels (eg 2Mbit/S) and higher data rates for higher channels (eg 8Mbits/S), or is something more subtle?

thanks.

PS I ask 'cause I'm interested and want to end up knowing whether to pursue for use in the UK.

Sure. :)
I don't know if there is a correlation between data rates and channel numbers in the UK, but here, the channel numbers correlate with the frequency of the channels, like channel 4 is a lower frequency than channel 35 for example. The reason why numerically lower channels, like 2-9 are fuzzy with this card is because the components inside the computer operate at similar frequencies, so there's snow, or static on the picture.
Currently, I think these cards are only for US TV signals, but I don't think it would be too much trouble to make a PAL version.

Since I seem to be Macrumor's resident AIW expert, feel free to ask me any questions you think I can answer. :p

[asjb]

nixd I think edvniow was talking about vhf and uhf (though I could be wrong). All UK television is UHF, which is higher than vhf. But then again there are lower channels within the UHF band as well...

And it depends on where you live. BBC1 may actually be on a frequency (channel) higher than BBC2, and Channel 4 may be lower than ITV, etc. Now if you have a cable box, it all comes into your All-In-Wonder on the same channel. You just have to hope that it comes in at a frequency which is higher than the fields created by the computer otherwise all your station will be crud.

[asjb]

Further to my last post and to edvniow, who must have posted while I was two finger typin' away here, the All-In-Wonder does work with PAL. I installed one in a PC not long ago.

It's not just the PVR aspect which is great about them - and by the way you can capture uncompressed if you have the disc space and speed (disc rpm) to do it, and recompress at your leisure for even better vids - it the time shifting idea. Pause real-time tv and get a drink or something, then press play and it's right where you left it.

TiVo and the like haven't really caught on over here (UK) so these things are still all a bit new!

[vniow]

Originally posted by asjb
Further to my last post and to edvniow, who must have posted while I was two finger typin' away here, the All-In-Wonder does work with PAL. I installed one in a PC not long ago.


Really? I had no idea that it worked with PAL. I thought the tuner was incompatible. Maybe it's not. Is your card a slightly different version than the US's or not?

Edit: You're right, Drive speed makes a HUGE difference when you're recording. I just upgraded to a 7200 rpm from a 5400 rpm and I get no dropped frames with my 667 PIII, just as lond as I'm not multitasking.

[nixd2001]

I'm on NTL so I get video through a cable STB (DOCSIS and MPEG2 streams) which are (as said) all tuned down to one stream. The connection between the STB and the AV Receiver (to get the DVD 5.1 surround sound stuff - toy from Christmas :) ) is (IFRC) an S-Video cable. So the UHF/VHF world has been left behind, but PAL versus NTSC is still relevant. I haven't looked at analogue video capture for ages, so I'm totally out of date as to where the world is. I know that Tivos are around in the UK, and there's even an EPG patch to get them to understand the channel numbering of NTL. But the PM is in the office at home and the TV is downstairs and most evenings are mainly spent working in the office - being able to sling CNN, Discover or National Geographic up in a corner of the screen would be so nice.

So back to a real question. Can the AIW take S-Video input and handle this?

[vniow]

Originally posted by nixd2001


So back to a real question. Can the AIW take S-Video input and handle this?

Yes.
Here's a pic of the 8500DV, It's got everything that the other AIW cards have including two firewire ports.
(Note, people have has some trouble with these ports, don't buy this card for the firewire, the 7500AIW is reported to be more reliable)
As you can see, this card (along with the rest of the AIW line) has a DVI-port, so hooking up an ADC display isn't that difficult.
Too bad they're too big for the cube.:(

My prediction: ATI is first going to target these cards at Powermac users that want a cheap and effective way to capture video. If it sells well, then they could sort-of reverse engineer the 8500DV (not the entire card, the Video-in-Video-out part) since it already has firewire, it could be made into an external box for iMac, eMac, and laptop owners. :)

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/b9b7e4a/bc/My+Documents/__hr_AIW.jpg?BCm2Ri9AwIz7tq8V

[nixd2001]

Originally posted by edvniow


[COLOR=blue]Yes.
Here's a pic of the 8500DV, It's got everything that the other AIW cards have including two firewire ports...

Cool. I'm going to have to think seriously about one of these now. Just when I thought there was no immediate need to spend any more money! (If only!) From your experience, how good is it at not dropping frames (for whichever is best of encoded or raw capturing)?

[vniow]

Originally posted by nixd2001


Cool. I'm going to have to think seriously about one of these now. Just when I thought there was no immediate need to spend any more money! (If only!) From your experience, how good is it at not dropping frames (for whichever is best of encoded or raw capturing)?

Dropped frames are a problem on my incredibly slow 667Mhz PIII, but I've got a 7200rpm HDD so if I'm not multitasking, I can get no dropped frames at all at 'Good' quality (720x480@ 6MB/s) If I'm lucky, I can get no dropped frames at 'DVD-quality' (720x480@8MB/s) You have the option of recording at a number of different qualities and resolutions. I think the highest you can get is 720x480@15MB/s (It's a big HDD space hog :eek: )
If you've got at least one G4, you should be all set. Two would be great, since OSX already has multi-cpu support.
BTW, the capture program (also the TV viewer/control center) has a little monitor on it that tells you what % of frames dropped. Nifty. :)

[RogueLdr]

Does anyone know what the card is based on for its standard video (VGA/DVI)? Is it 7xxx, 8xxx, or 9xxx based? That and any other stats would be helpful.

(I know I could delve about a bit, but hopefully someone else has already done this, and could forward it along, I have a big CS project due tomorrow :mad: )

RL

[vniow]

Originally posted by RogueLdr
Does anyone know what the card is based on for its standard video (VGA/DVI)? Is it 7xxx, 8xxx, or 9xxx based? That and any other stats would be helpful.

(I know I could delve about a bit, but hopefully someone else has already done this, and could forward it along, I have a big CS project due tomorrow :mad: )

RL

The PC versions are based off of the Radeon (mine) and the 7500 and the 8500. ATI said there's not going to be an AIW vrsion of the 9700 cuz there' no room for a tuner on it. 9000 maybe, but not the 9700. If you look at the pic on the top of the page, you can see that it clearly supports a DVI output. A DVI-to-VGA dongle is included with the card. It also has Composite and S-Video out.
Hope this helps. :)

[ironix]

When it comes to video in, though, I'm used to getting jacked. I bought the Formac ProTV Stereo just before OS X came out, and now that I"m addicted to X, I can't use my card! Formac won't make a driver for me. Anyone know how I can deal with that?
A.

Formac (http://www.formac.com) mentions in it's Formac ProTV Stereo FAQ (http://www.formac.com/p_bin/?cid=help_support_protv_faq) "Formac is looking into the feasibility to develop OSX drivers." Due to this I assumed/hoped that they would soon come out with an OS X driver, and so I purchased a Formac ProTV Stereo card on the assumption that they would. Now after communicating with a representative of Formac, I was told "...we unfortunately will not have any new drivers available for OS X ... we don’t see a future market for a product like the ProTV Stereo card under OS-X." Am I the only one who thinks that their FAQ is misleading consumers?

[solvs]

Sorry guys, looks like we're all in for a disappointment:

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0209/24.ati.php

"NO ALL-IN-WONDER FOR YOU" (in most horrible attempt at a Soup Nazi accent).

USB sux, DV pass-through doesn't always work, Formacs support is dreadful, Sony discontinued their model, Matrox has no OS X drivers, and most of the PCI cards out there are way too expensive. Anyone know a good way to get analog footage into your Mac? Dazzle has a box right? Is it any good?

[RogueLdr]

Originally posted by edvniow


The PC versions are based off of the Radeon (mine) and the 7500 and the 8500. ATI said there's not going to be an AIW vrsion of the 9700 cuz there' no room for a tuner on it. 9000 maybe, but not the 9700. If you look at the pic on the top of the page, you can see that it clearly supports a DVI output. A DVI-to-VGA dongle is included with the card. It also has Composite and S-Video out.
Hope this helps. :)

Thanks for the info, it is greatly appreciated.

RL

[vniow]

Turns out there is an AIW 9700 Pro. Still no Mac version.:(


click (http://mirror.ati.com/products/pc/aiw9700pro/index.html)

[Ibjr]

Originally posted by edvniow
Turns out there is an AIW 9700 Pro. Still no Mac version.:(


click (http://mirror.ati.com/products/pc/aiw9700pro/index.html)

yes, but at 100 more on the pc side, its a bit much for the card if they have the Mac markup.

[ddtlm]

edvniow:

So, what did you expect? Don't tell me that you fell for a rumor. With the relatively slow processors Macs currently have, adding such a fast video card strikes me as a waste, and I can't imagine that enough people could cough up the cash to make it worth Apple's or ATI's time.

Not to mention the cost of porting over ATI's complex all-in-wonder software.

[vniow]

Originally posted by ddtlm
edvniow:

So, what did you expect? Don't tell me that you fell for a rumor. With the relatively slow processors Macs currently have, adding such a fast video card strikes me as a waste, and I can't imagine that enough people could cough up the cash to make it worth Apple's or ATI's time.

Not to mention the cost of porting over ATI's complex all-in-wonder software.




Read my other posts.
I never said that it was a definate. I said it would be nice, but I never said it was going to happen.

It still might.
ATI themselves said that there is never going to be a 9700 AIW cuz there's no room on it for the tuner and lo and behold, it shows up.
ATI also said that they are not pursuing a Mac version of the AIW cards.
After that whole 9700 AIW thing, I'm inclined to believe rumors more than ATI themselves, plus Think Secret has been remarkably accurate with the last few rumors.

[mattevil]

if only ati could release this card all would be right in the world
perhaps el gato could make a firewire eyetv?