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View Full Version : Lion..ipad on a computer: good or bad?




macmaster24
May 5, 2011, 11:19 PM
Is it just me or do both the developer versions of lion suck, which is not to say that the final version will suck worse, but come on, we buy computers to be like computers. we dont buy computers to be like ipads....thats what ipads are for right?



NameUndecided
May 5, 2011, 11:45 PM
Is it just me or do both the developer versions of lion suck, which is not to say that the final version will suck worse, but come on, we buy computers to be like computers. we dont buy computers to be like ipads....thats what ipads are for right?

???. Negative Nancy. Personal taste. My MacBook Pro is not any less a computer with any less level of usability with Lion installed.

macmaster24
May 6, 2011, 12:32 AM
???. Negative Nancy. Personal taste. My MacBook Pro is not any less a computer with any less level of usability with Lion installed.

lmfao negative nancy?

well of course it dosent impair anything, but it will take a lot of getting used to just saying

NameUndecided
May 6, 2011, 12:53 AM
Could you clarify? What aspects will or are taking any significant amount of time to get used to?

VPrime
May 6, 2011, 12:55 AM
So far, the only "ipad" part of lion is the "launchpad" which has an alias to all your apps... you don't have to use this at all, you can still run your applications directly from the "applications" folder or using spot light, the dock or how ever else.

NameUndecided
May 6, 2011, 01:01 AM
Since the first Lion upgrade, I haven't used Launchpad at all really just because the upgrade reset my app arrangement. Having removed it from the dock and not using it at all (no accidental four-finger pinches yet), it was almost forgotten about and certainly hasn't gotten in the way of anything.
I do think that it's cute though, and I'm sure I'll organize my apps in it again at some point.

maflynn
May 6, 2011, 07:05 AM
So far, the only "ipad" part of lion is the "launchpad" which has an alias to all your apps

Gestures is another iPad feature on Lion, as well as the shaky icons to uninstall them instead of trashing the app.

Apple is making OSX more iPad-ish, as for DP sucking, as you put it. I think you're in the minority. It appears the consensus here is that Lion is eagerly anticipated.

I'm personally underwhelmed but that's just me, a lot of folks here are loving the features and are excited.

Varigon
May 6, 2011, 07:25 AM
I find Snow Leopard to be very outdated after I have tried Lion. Love Mission Control and all the little fixes here and there.

When I'm going to university after this summer I will leave my iMac back home so my mother can switch over to Mac and it will be much easier for her to switch to Lion rather than Snow Leopard. One important reason for that is that they have made it more similar to iOS.

Great move by Apple.

FroMann
May 6, 2011, 08:44 AM
If we are not limited to app stores then I do not mind.

bedifferent
May 6, 2011, 10:53 AM
I have to agree with the OP. Most of the front end features such as Launchpad and three+ finger multigestures are from iOS. Sure there are some tweaks under the hood, but for desktop/professional users of OS X, I need power refinement not cute little icons that wiggle. Leave that **** to the iOS kiddies and focus on OS X. The only thing Apple is doing is dumbing down OS X to make it easier for the iDevice groupies to move into laptop systems or an iMac.

Apple doesn't give two ****'s about us professionals who kept them from folding during their chapter 11 days in the 90's before Jobs came back. It's all about consumer market share, making their products in Taiwan now and $50+ billion in cash reserves.

AdrianK
May 6, 2011, 12:04 PM
I have to agree with the OP. Most of the front end features such as Launchpad and three+ finger multigestures are from iOS.
Then don't use LP and revert your trackpad settings to how they were.

Sure there are some tweaks under the hood, but for desktop/professional users of OS X, I need power refinement not cute little icons that wiggle.
There are refinements in Lion, ones which were long over due. Also the wiggly icons are just part of LP, I don't see why you're complaining about a feature which is not imposed on you in any way.

Leave that **** to the iOS kiddies and focus on OS X.
I'm at a loss as what this sentence means.


The only thing Apple is doing is dumbing down OS X to make it easier for the iDevice groupies to move into laptop systems or an iMac.
What exactly was "dumbed down"? I haven't found anything I couldn't do in Lion, that I could in 10.6.

Apple doesn't give two ****'s about us professionals who kept them from folding during their chapter 11 days in the 90's before Jobs came back. It's all about consumer market share, making their products in Taiwan now and $50+ billion in cash reserves.
And that's related to their latest OS, how?


Bah, it's just a bandwagon to jump on. Nothing is removed. Nothing is "dumbed down". It's just something to complain about.

mrblack927
May 6, 2011, 12:40 PM
I haven't found anything I couldn't do in Lion, that I could in 10.6..

I like Lion on the whole too, but to say that there's nothing in 10.6 that you can't do in Lion is patently untrue. Just look at Spaces. In 10.6, you could move between spaces in a grid quickly and easily. In Lion, you can't do that and you can't change it back.

The fact is, there are some features that they did just remove. Most of which were done for the sake of making things "simpler" for new users, which is where I think a lot of people get the term "dumbing down".

maflynn
May 6, 2011, 12:42 PM
If we are not limited to app stores then I do not mind.

I think that day is coming, maybe not in 10.7 but in the very near future.

I guess I'm being a negative Nancy :p

bedifferent
May 6, 2011, 04:54 PM
I like Lion on the whole too, but to say that there's nothing in 10.6 that you can't do in Lion is patently untrue. Just look at Spaces. In 10.6, you could move between spaces in a grid quickly and easily. In Lion, you can't do that and you can't change it back.

The fact is, there are some features that they did just remove. Most of which were done for the sake of making things "simpler" for new users, which is where I think a lot of people get the term "dumbing down".

Exactly. I hate when people take apart comments sentence by sentence with the same arguments then complain about your supposed complaining. Oh the irony :rolleyes:

Most of these are new to Mac's, brought in by the iDevice craze and have no sense of what Apple and OS X used to provide.

Launchpad is a feature that equates to the iPad iOS, something that Apple has CLEARLY stated (simply another way to access applications based on iOS but not a convenient method for desktops as you have to select an icon one at a time into subcategories that don't make access easier but only adds extra steps). This is a feature that has been implemented for the average Joe-sumer. Apple has dropped major OS X developed into improving HFS+, little 64-bit architecture support for Proapps, lack of Blu-Ray support makes my job with OS X more difficult, no R.I. development, no mid-tower between the top iMac and entry level Mac Pro, spaces went from a useful 3D grid to the iOS 2D format which makes utilizing a system for projector based presentations more difficult (the grid made placing and accessing customized app placement easier for corp presentations), etc.

Professionals such as myself who have been around since the 90's and well before the iOS crowd have had these discussions with newbies for the past three years, and it doesn't resolve into anything other than hard headed new comers getting defensive and obstinate about what they know not. I take no issue with iDevices, I love my iPhone and iPad, however do not mux them with OS X. They should work well together but not be one and the same. In the past few years Apple has dropped focus on prosumers and as such a lot of us have and are leaving to use Avid and Premiere Pro and Lightroom on Windows or other platforms as we cannot afford to invest thousands of dollars in systems when there is evidence that Apple will drop us altogether,

Synaesthesia242
May 6, 2011, 07:46 PM
Jeez, you can remove Launchpad from the dock, so chill.

Not one single pro feature has been removed from Lion. Not one. In fact some have been added.

NameUndecided
May 6, 2011, 08:47 PM
Yeah… lack of pro support is really going to depend on which professional you talk to. And I'm not meaning for that to come off as an invitation for some hypothetical statistics to support an argument. I'm just meaning to say that it comes down to opinion and personal taste and needs -- among both professionals and more casual users.

This taking of features like LaunchPad and the App Store as threats and harbingers of things to come (iPadification! Mainstreamification!) just seems humorous to me. And this "joe-sumer" and "pro-sumer" talk sounds so needlessly, off-puttingly, elitist. It makes me a bit nauseous.

Synaesthesia242
May 7, 2011, 02:13 AM
Apple has dropped major OS X developed into improving HFS+, little 64-bit architecture support for Proapps, lack of Blu-Ray support makes my job with OS X more difficult, no R.I. development, no mid-tower between the top iMac and entry level Mac Pro, spaces went from a useful 3D grid to the iOS 2D format which makes utilizing a system for projector based presentations more difficult (the grid made placing and accessing customized app placement easier for corp presentations), etc.


I understand your sentiment, it is true Apple makes way more money on iOS, but I have some issues with some of your points there.

Take a look at Lion, it's got a new filesystem called Core Storage.
It's got new API's which will make apps even more sophisticated.
Apple is still dedicated to Pro Apps, Final Cut X will have 64-bit and all.
You can't argue that the new iMac isn't pro level, with 2 thunderbolt ports.
The new spaces is a ton easier, since switching between them is now a gesture on my Magic Trackpad. Love it.

VPrime
May 7, 2011, 04:16 AM
Gestures is another iPad feature on Lion, as well as the shaky icons to uninstall them instead of trashing the app.


I suppose..
Personally I don't see the gestures as iPad like at all. Macbooks introduced gestures before the iPad was even out. his is just the next step to implementing them system wide and allowing them to do different things.
But as stated your not forced to use them.

As for shaky icons, isn't that just for Launch pad? If so, again.. Not something you have to use. As far as I can see you're not being forced into anything (yet).


To those complaining about spaces and how apple removed a "pro user feature".. Well that is up for debate. It depends who you asks. I consider my self more than a typical user. I rarely used spaces. It never fit in my workflow, only time I found a use for it was switching between a VM and the host OS.
From what I'm seeing in Lion, spaces has transformed into something that feels more useable to me.
Sure it may not be for everyone, but the original spaces wasn't everyones cup of tea either.

bedifferent
May 7, 2011, 12:53 PM
In order to save time and space, I'l simply address comments made towards me without quoting as they seem to have the same (valid) points. :)

My issue is not just with Lion, it's with Apple's general direction. I've been developing and beta testing OS X since it was released, back when memberships cost $499+ (this new $99 fee is interesting as it seems Apple may want more consumer feedback when in the past it was purely meant for those who need to rework their applications with the new OS). I still have beta's from back in the Jaguar days with OS X features that were never released, some great ones that would be even perfect presently. This new deployment of monthly builds via the OS X App Store is odd, as before developers would receive beta's almost bi-weekly, with new features and system advancements, and these beta's would require being burnt to a DVD and installed from scratch (this ensured little compatibility issues). It seems tables have turned, as an iOS developer as well we receive iOS beta's much more frequently compared to OS X updates (when there is one).

It's not just the software but the hardware. Apple's display line since the Studio line to the Apple Cinema Display line had more than one display option. Apple neglected their displays for almost eight years, and replaced a GREAT line that needed almost no tweaking with Spyder Monitor Calibration tools as OS X was coded to work perfectly with their displays. This allowed professionals such as myself all the way to photographers such as Annie Leibovitz to have a great system that produced uniform colors and a near perfect screen to print ratio. Apple simply replaced those displays with one, the same display panel used in their larger iMac. Certainly a cost effective move as the part's are already utilized, all that was needed was a simple tweak in the shell and voila, you have a display. However, one display does not fit all.

PowerMac G4 and G4's were priced around $1450+, and with a 23" or even 30" Apple Cinema Display, you had a great system for around $2500 or $3000. Now, Apple sells the Mac Pro for around that price, with only one display (now around $1000), and while a great display that used LED LCD panels for a great price, again, it's almost double what professionals invested in previous Apple products. Most of us need a powerful system that is upgradable, but we don't need expensive and power Intel Xeon SERVER processors and we need something more flexible than an iMac as most of us use more than one display and need more power for graphics and the such.

Not getting into it more, I'm not lamenting or trying to complain, most of us are disappointed as we have used Apple for our living well before the newcomers. I'm excited that Apple is doing amazingly well, but the company has $50+ billion in the bank. They went into a niche mobile market and made bank, and the professional and business market is not a niche market. Think of the thousands one business spends in upgrading their systems, that's just ONE business. If Apple utilized even a small amount of their cash reserve to re-focus on us, they could easily make a good amount of money and take much of the business market further from Windows/MS.

Alas, this does not seem to be an importance to Cupertino. So a lot of us are moving to systems and companies that seem to be interested in the business and professional market. This means all the time and money we have spent in Apple products is gone, and we have to reinvest in another platform, spending time and money we may not necessarily afford. It's a shame, but please don't dismiss us as complainers or whiners. We are adults, and unlike the majority of new comers, make our living using Apple systems. This is a big deal for us.

CaptainCannabis
May 7, 2011, 04:35 PM
Am I the only one who thinks they are making a big piece of crap with the new OS?

antmarobel
May 7, 2011, 07:42 PM
Am I the only one who thinks they are making a big piece of crap with the new OS?

Yes...I think you are:p

bedifferent
May 8, 2011, 01:34 AM
Am I the only one who thinks they are making a big piece of crap with the new OS?

Nope :)

Malcolm.
May 8, 2011, 01:48 AM
I don't have a Mac, but I'd be skipping Lion if I did. Same with Windows 8. The classic, tried-and-true desktop OS is being slowly replaced by faddish mobile tablet nonsense.

Bernard SG
May 8, 2011, 01:56 AM
iPad is a computer...

bedifferent
May 8, 2011, 02:00 AM
iPad is a computer...

Sure, but I'd hate to do my work on it. Final Cut Pro editing in HD? It's a computer for consuming, not necessarily producing (iWork app's are good for minor work, I wouldn't use my iPad as a computer but as an extension of my main system).

ErikGrim
May 8, 2011, 07:13 AM
I've been beta testing the OS since Mac OS 8 was called Copland and something entirely different to what was actually released. I have used every Mac OS release since the MultiFinder was released. I remember when AtEase was a bonafide Finder replacement, and how it got morphed in to the Simple Finder option later on.

Apple has always cared about professional users. If they didn't they wouldn't have developers creating their applications. They wouldn't have editors creating Oscar winning movies. They wouldn't have Grammy winning musicians. They wouldn't completely own the print and web design industry. Or at least you'd see a deluge of users escape over the last two decades or so were people like you have whined about Apple not caring.

So accept the fact that Apple is constantly improving the OS for everyone - be them the millions of new users coming to Apple from their impeccable work in creating something that everyone can use

Soliber
May 8, 2011, 09:11 AM
I read through the entire "little new things in Lion" thread about a month ago. From what I read there, it seems Apple has put a great deal of work and a lot of nice things in Lion.
So I don't really understand where this "Lion has almost no new features" or "Lion will be crap" sentiment is coming from.

bedifferent
May 8, 2011, 12:03 PM
Apple has always cared about professional users. If they didn't they wouldn't have developers creating their applications. They wouldn't have editors creating Oscar winning movies. They wouldn't have Grammy winning musicians. They wouldn't completely own the print and web design industry.

How does this enforce your claim? Old Awards and artists who have used their products is no basis for their current direction. Give some actual facts. Would a company who cares about professionals drop Xserve, R.I., dedicated professional hardware, focus on consumer level products such as iDevices and iOS with little OS X development? You listed anecdotes and personally attacked me over something as silly as Apple products when there are far more important issues to be angry about (let's start with the nuclear meltdown in Japan and work our way from there).

Or at least you'd see a deluge of users escape over the last two decades or so were people like you have whined about Apple not caring.

Yet that is exactly what is happening with the prosumer market. For the record, we are not whining, merely making statements as we make our living off Apple products. I also work in OS X/UNIX/Windows environments, all have their pro's and con's. I will admit that since Apple transitioned from PowerPC to Intel chips, it's great having a Mac Pro (or any Intel Mac) that can run a myriad of OS's.

SinisterPower
May 8, 2011, 03:58 PM
I didn't download any of the Lion developer previews but it seems like we don't have to have the apps on the screen like an iPad and I agree with the first post, ''We do buy computers to look like a computer, Not an iPad.''
:apple:

VPrime
May 8, 2011, 06:40 PM
Here is one thing I said before in a similar topic about apple ignoring the pro market.
One part of the pro market is software developers... Right?

Well, these software developers create software generally for the consumer market.. These developers help push apples iOS devices, the apps tore, and the mac app store.
With out these developers there would be no apps to bring people to these devices, and for apple to make money on (both with the sales of devices, and the 30% cut from the appstores).

It would not make sense to create a platform where a software developer can not have certain freedoms they need (which are sometimes pretty similar to other content creators).
If apple creates a platform which makes it impossible to develop apps with, then the developers will leave. simple as that.
Right now, the only way to develop applications for apple products is by using an apple product.

So my question is, do you think apple with shoot them self in the foot like that?
You say apple is focusing on consumers, and leaving the pro users.. But it is the "pro" users that create an environment for the average user.

Yes, apple is making the OS easier to use. But this doesn't mean they are making the operating system function worse. Things will be different, take some getting used to. But they won't remove certain freedoms that are required.

As Steve Balmer once said.......
DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS!:p

Bernard SG
May 9, 2011, 12:39 PM
Sure, but I'd hate to do my work on it. Final Cut Pro editing in HD? It's a computer for consuming, not necessarily producing (iWork app's are good for minor work, I wouldn't use my iPad as a computer but as an extension of my main system).

The people who use applications like Final Cut or Logic Studio, Adobe CS et all, while most respectable, represent a very tiny minority of the universe of computer users.
I definitely do consume AND produce on the iPad.
Anyhow, the debate, we're having is moot IMO. It's not like Apple is going to drop the current way we use Macs.

mysterytramp
May 9, 2011, 03:49 PM
If Apple utilized even a small amount of their cash reserve to re-focus on us, they could easily make a good amount of money and take much of the business market further from Windows/MS.

I haven't seen Lion firsthand; I'll wait until the official release. But I can tell you that the business market is going to eat up Versions like a spoon. That's the killer app in this upgrade. Maybe not to the people on this board ... but you take your average manager with an office full of people with varying computer skills. Something like Versions -- assuming it's implemented well -- can erase a lot of office heartache.

And THAT is why Apple has focused more than a little of its cash reserve on YOU.

mt